Ep 1230 | Miss Kay Retires Her Apron & Jase Confesses a Former Addiction That Got Out of Control

Summary

Unashamed with the Robertson Family – Ep 1230

Miss Kay Retires Her Apron & Jase Confesses a Former Addiction That Got Out of Control
Release Date: December 16, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on faith, family, and the little but meaningful rituals that bind the Robertson family together, especially in the wake of major life changes. The conversation threads through Miss Kay’s transition away from her famous cooking, stories of family meals and food traditions, and a candid confession from Jase about his past addiction to donuts. At the heart of these stories is a deeper biblical discussion: the nature of Jesus’ resurrection and the hope it offers Christians, with a detailed, lively dive into John 20 and the significance of Jesus’ resurrected body.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Miss Kay: Transitioning from Family Matriarch & Chef

• Miss Kay’s Health and Well-Being
  • Zach provides an update on Miss Kay, who is coping well with grief and a recent dementia diagnosis, despite missing her late husband (01:12–02:31).
  • She's "turned a corner" and is physically well, enjoying family activities—like having burgers and watching football with Zach.
• Retiring Her Famous Apron
  • Jase shares the family’s attempts to replicate Miss Kay’s iconic chocolate pie, a process fraught with mysterious missing steps and the challenges of unwritten, "just a little of this" Southern recipes (02:31–08:06 & 11:45–12:29).
  • Memorable quote (07:18, Jase):
    “She said, I really just can’t remember. You know, the last time I cooked, I thought, I’m just too old for this... get my cookbook.”
• Cooking as Family Culture
  • Missy tries (and fails) to crack the pie recipe; the family's food critiques are a rite of passage, highlighting both humor and reverence for family traditions (11:45–13:08).
  • Jase reflects, “You people are crazy over this food,” and recalls it took Missy “10 years to get over the criticism after every meal” (10:51–11:45).

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2. Robertson Family Food Rituals

• The Depth of Food in Robertson Life
  • Meals are central—whether it’s holiday gatherings, wild game, or classic pies. Food unites and marks time (12:29–14:46).
  • Stories surface about epic family spreads—duck, exotic meats, roast, and more—leaving guests amazed at daily feasting (12:29–14:46).
• Miss Kay’s Honest Food Critiques
  • Hilarious and heartfelt: Miss Kay doesn’t hold back about subpar institutional food (13:19–14:42).
  • Standout quote (14:22, Zach):
    “I told you, I don’t like that. ... It’s just like, no, your food is terrible.”

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3. Spiritual Reflections: Resurrection, Reunion, and the New Creation

• Biblical Discussion: John 20 & Luke 24
  • The hosts dive deep into the significance of Jesus’ physical resurrection — the "garden motif," Jesus eating fish, and the implications for the Christian hope of bodily resurrection (15:19–29:57).
  • Jase expresses awe at the details, such as Jesus appearing with a real body and requesting food post-resurrection.
  • Key quote (34:10, Jase):
    “I’m not going to apologize to my animal rights friends, but the King of Kings, one of the first questions asked post-resurrection was, where is the fish?”
• What Is the Resurrected Body Like?
  • The hosts untangle biblical concepts: Not just a “ghost”—the resurrected Jesus could be touched, ate food, and demonstrated a new, "glorified" form. This challenges floating, ethereal stereotypes of the afterlife (23:14–36:31).
  • Zach: “You don’t want to miss that ... a physical body. Spirits don’t eat. Ghosts don’t. ... Jesus acknowledged there are ghosts, but they’re not eating.” (48:18)
• Hope and Family in the New Creation
  • Practical implications: suffering, physical loss, or illness are temporary, with restoration and reunion promised in the resurrection (43:46–45:08).
  • Zach, on the hope of resurrection:
    “As long as he’s on Earth, he’s got to walk around on prosthetics. But ... in the resurrection, all things restored.” (44:31)
• Food, Faith, and Forever Family
  • The act of sharing meals becomes a picture of heaven and reunion (50:21–54:33).
  • Quote (46:05, Missy via Jase):
    “She’s like, I came from a family who ate to survive, but your family survives to eat.”

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4. Jase’s Humorous Confession: The Donut Addiction

• A Battle with Sweets
  • Jase candidly describes his former obsession with hot donuts, complete with a detailed “journal” of local fryer schedules (16:49–17:34).
  • Memorable moment (17:10, Zach):
    “You might have a problem if you’re keeping up with this.”
  • Confession is given tongue-in-cheek but illustrates real struggles with self-discipline and appetite, tying back to spiritual themes of mastery and freedom.

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5. Practical Theology: Living in the ‘Now Not Yet’

• Living the Resurrected Life Today
  • The team reflects on living in hope and transformation now, not just passively waiting for heaven (52:59–53:34).
  • Quote (53:25, Jason):
    “We live a resurrected life even here while we’re on earth, awaiting the final confirmation of everything being put together.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On Miss Kay’s Cooking Legacy
  • Jase: “We’re trying to resurrect that pie ... I need to know, do you cook it for 30 minutes?” (06:19)
  • Miss Kay (reported): “I can’t remember ... get my cookbook.” (07:18)
• Jase’s Donut Journal
  • Jase: “I had the schedule on a notebook for all the places on when the new batches would be ready.” (16:49)
• On Jesus’ Resurrection Body
  • Zach: “A ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see I have. ... the creator of all things just said ghosts are real.” (27:36–27:51)
  • Guest Speaker: “He’s not bound by time and space, but he’s in time and space. That’s the significance of the meal.” (24:23)
• Family, Food, and Eternity
  • Missy (via Jase): “...your family survives to eat.” (46:05)
  • Jason: “...the possibilities are going to be enhanced post-resurrection.” (41:14)
• On the Hope Found in Resurrection
  • Zach: “Doesn’t matter … it’s inevitable. I’m coming back. It doesn’t matter.” (44:18)
• On Living as God’s Children
  • Zach: “There’s an elevation here of the idea of family, and it’s forever family.” (51:07)

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Key Bible Passages Discussed

• John 20: Jesus appears to his disciples, emphasizing physical resurrection and new creation.
• Luke 24: Jesus eats broiled fish, refutes the “ghost” explanation, and explains the Scriptures to the disciples.
• 1 Corinthians 15: Analogy of seed and resurrection body—what sown perishable will be raised imperishable.
• Romans 8: The hope of the redeemed body and children of God.

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Structural/Timestamped Highlights

• 00:00–01:07: Opening on cultural division and faith foundations (brief sponsor).
• 01:07–02:31: Family and faith updates; Miss Kay’s health.
• 02:31–08:06: The chocolate pie saga and importance of family recipes.
• 10:51–14:46: Food as identity; Miss Kay’s critiques.
• 15:19–29:57: Deep dive into resurrection; Jesus eating post-resurrection.
• 34:10–34:23: Jesus’ first question post-resurrection—asking for fish.
• 40:31–48:18: Resurrection, reunion, physical afterlife.
• 50:21–54:33: Family, feasts, and child-of-God identity.

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Tone and Takeaways

• Warm and playful, with plenty of laughs about family quirks and Southern cooking.
• Deeply earnest when turning to grief, hope, and the realities of faith and loss.
• Accessible theology: The hosts explain complex biblical ideas in everyday language, using food, family, and real-life struggles as metaphors and entry points.

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For New Listeners

This episode is a blend of humor and raw honesty (about pies and past failures), intimate family moments, and profound discussion of Christian hope—the kind that unites generations, consoles the grieving, and shapes everyday life. You’ll come away with a deeper sense of the Robertsons’ faith, their view of eternity, and—perhaps—the urge to hunt down a really good chocolate pie recipe.

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Next episode teaser: Thomas the doubter enters the scene, and the Robertson family continues to explore how ordinary people grasp extraordinary faith.

Transcript

[Zach]

So no matter how you slice it, we're definitely in a divided time in our country. There's. There's no way around it. We see it every single day and watch the news. And so I think in this time of division, we have to have consistency that speaking into the values that we believe in. One of our good friends, Tony Perkins, heads up an organization called Family Research Council. As Louisiana guy is a pastor, he has our heart for Jesus. He even did a blurb in Dad's book, Theft of America's Soul. And it's just been there for us as a family, but also as a nation. So FRC is standing for what's right. They defend faith. They protect families. They remind leaders that biblical truth still matters. So when others compromise, our friends at FRC stand firm. Because if we lose our foundation, we lose the soul of our nation. Unashamed nation. You guys can help out FRC by defending what matters most by visiting FRC.org unashamed to learn more. Check them out.

[Jason]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Zach]

Welcome back to Unashamed. For you guys, it's probably been a day or two. For us, it's been five minutes since we were here recording. We record two when we record. And I was mentioning about preaching yesterday and. And mom was there, which. So I preached a couple of times within the last three weeks, which is unusual. But I'm home, you know, right now during the holidays and this home. And mom, so she. She's come the last two times I preached, and so she. But she's doing really well. The. The most. Zach. The most. The most asked question I get is, how's Ms. K? You know, and part of that's because obviously we lost dad this year.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Zach]

So there's the whole grief side of it. But also we had mentioned that she's had been diagnosed with some dementia of her own, but not as severe as dads, but she's really done well. And she's. I think she's kind of, I hate to say, turn the corner on grief, because I don't know that you ever do, but she seems to now be in a better place with it. A better way to put it. And physically she's doing well. She's lost some weight and that's helping her overall physically. But she came over to my house yesterday. She came to church, or came to her when we met together. She loves my hamburger, so came over the house and made her a burger. She watched some football, which she loves that too.

[Jason]

Well, I have to be honest. So you thought I came to hear you preach yesterday because I was late. And so I got there like, I.

[Zach]

Knew that's not why you were there.

[Jason]

10 seconds after you got up, I walked in.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jason]

But my wife. I was running late because, you know, when you go duck hunting before church, things happen.

[Zach]

I noticed you were all camoed, so.

[Jason]

I. Oh, yeah, I did wash my face. I didn't want to. Last time, I forgot I had face paint on. It caused a ruckus. And it was just because I was being a distraction because everybody was like, who is that? And he's got. They thought it was some kind of public protest of something because I didn't know that the man's a menace. Something, somehow another about, you know, putting paint on your face can be some kind of political protest. But I was just trying to conceal myself and shoot some ducks. I didn't know that was a thing. Yeah. But anyway, so I watched my face, but Missy's like. I was like, well, I'm gonna. Because Kay's gonna be there today. So I was like, hurriedly going through the kitchen. Well, she was baking pies because we have all our family coming in, like, a week early for Christmas, and she's trying to bring back to resurrect, which we're in. John 20, which. I brought that up to her. Ms. K's chocolate pie. And here's the problem. If you bought a Ms. K's cookbook, the details of making the chocolate pie, there's a few details that are missing in that recipe. And I know probably what happened is they interviewed her. But, you know, my parents, they don't really do recipes. They're like, a little of this, a little of that. Throw it in there. Not too much.

[Zach]

Dad would say, now hit that lick. Hit that lick, like, right there. But not too much. Don't. Don't get. Don't get crazy with it. Just a lick.

[Jason]

So there's actually. You make the. From my standing off looking. Because she. She made to the day before. And I heard her in there saying, nope, because she tried them last year.

[Zach]

And it was, by the way, his dad was. Dad's way of saying, no, that's.

[Jason]

Yeah, she was honest. I was like, babe, I'm sure it's not that bad. And so I went in there. Well, the meringue. When I tasted that, I thought, okay, you missed that. So then I peeled the meringue off. I thought, but surely you got the chocolate part. And the. I know her crust is good because she's. She uses that same crust for other pies.

[Zach]

Yeah, but.

[Jason]

But I took a bite of it and I went, it's not bad. But she said, but it's just not what it's supposed to be. I said, exactly what happened. And she said, well, if you read the recipe and I read it, she's like, it never says anything in here about cooking the pie. Well, I know you have to cook it, but I thought, well, maybe if you cook the crust separately, you have the chocolate filling separately, because this is all handmade. Not like you put something in of a can down there, what most people do. And I know you made the meringue separately. What if you just put it together? And she's like, well, it says do the crust for 10 minutes, but when I normally do the crust, it's 30 minutes. So I'm thinking I should cook the pie 20 minutes, because it cooked the crust 30 minutes. I saw her logic, and she's like, this is what happened. I said something. She has all the ingredients. It's just somehow the process and it all has the right taste. It's just the consistency is wrong. So she's like, I mean, it's great. Your brother's preaching. Your mom's gonna be there. I need to know from your mom where I'm going wrong.

[Zach]

Good luck with that. Well, here's the problem.

[Jason]

Here's what she don't understand. When my mom comes to church, there's a certain amount of people that, you know, I basically had to get in line for to try to ask.

[Zach]

My mom's having an appearance and you're waiting in line to get a picture.

[Guest Speaker]

That's right.

[Jason]

So I finally. And I don't want to be disruptive or just a distraction. So finally, right after the service, in between responses, I say, look, Missy's been trying to cook your chocolate pies for a year. She hadn't got it. She went, bless her heart. I was like, yep. So we're trying to resurrect that pie, and I need to know, do you cook it for 30 minutes? After I gave her all what I just said, and she said, well, don't take this the wrong way. And I thought, well, she's fixed to say something revolutionary. She said, I can't remember.

[Guest Speaker]

It got lost in the shuffle.

[Jason]

She said, I really just can't remember. You know, the last time I cooked, I thought, I'm just too old for this. I can't remember. And she said, well, look, but what. Here's what I recommend. Get my cookbook. I said, no, we got this from the cookbook. And I said, I think whoever put that together didn't try this because we're going from your cookbook and this one, we have all the ingredients. They all taste right, but it's just not coming together. So this morning, when I. In between the duck hunt and this podcast, I walk in and Missy's got her apron back on.

[Zach]

She's going for it again.

[Jason]

You're going again? She said, I'm back at it. So I don't know what the result. Because she threw those two pies away. She's like, nope. I was like, babe, you. They are.

[Zach]

I remember mom cooking everything separate, though. I do too, you know, So I remember that.

[Jason]

But when I looked at the color of the chocolate, I said, no, it's very deep.

[Zach]

Dark, dark, dark.

[Jason]

When she cooked it that amount of time, it lost that and it lost the consistency. It was real kind of gummy. So it all tastes. It has it. It's the wrong consistency. So I'm putting this out there. If anybody's got this figured out, I.

[Zach]

Bet somebody out in Unashamed Nation has taken it and figured it.

[Jason]

And who knows? I may go home and it. Because, I mean, Missy, that was her favorite pie of all mom's, but she has the sweet potato awesomely. She can do a crawfish pie, which we ate last night because she said, well, I have one more crust, but how about we do a crawfish pie? And so I can have a break from the chocolate pie.

[Zach]

The box.

[Jason]

So I'll keep.

[Zach]

Chocolate pie was always dad's favorite, too. Of mom's.

[Jason]

Yeah, Well, I don't even like chocolate, but I like that chocolate pie just.

[Zach]

Because I guess it's my least favorite too. But. But she did it. It almost had a bitter. Because it was bitter chocolate or semi sweet or something because it almost had a bitter taste to it. But it. It was good. I mean, mom said my favorite was.

[Guest Speaker]

The old buttermilk pie. That's probably the.

[Zach]

That's my favorite. Egg custard. Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

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[Jason]

Well, neither one of us that was high on the list. So she's just bringing back the top for you know, she got the sweet potato.

[Guest Speaker]

So I'm happy make chocolate pie. Great again. Is what you're. Is that. That's what you're after?

[Jason]

Jace that's what. Well she's. That's her favorite pie. So she's after. Yeah and I'll keep you posted. But the fact that she's wanting to do it, I mean my wife, it just shows you out there if you're not. Because our family cooking was something honorable and we've discussed that before. But my wife, who didn't really care about cooking or didn't come from a cooking family, not that it was bad or anything like that, but when she got into our family, she's like, you people are crazy over this food. I mean, although she did it took her a while. I'm saying a while as in 10 years to get over the criticism after we eat every meal, which is what we do because my dad would always try to make everything better and so he was the chief critic. So whenever we would cook for the family, you know, you were nervous because you know that if this is not up to snuff.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jason]

You're fixing to hear about it.

[Zach]

Yeah. And. And, or you do like Missy did and once you know it's not you just throw it out. You. You don't even try. You're just not like what somebody.

[Jason]

Yeah. She knew. She was like this is. I mean we know what the ideal is.

[Zach]

It's funny because we were the night you were talking about on the last podcast because Blake and his wife were here and they've been staying with in our our compound of the larger compound and we cooked. So we had is one of the strangest meals. Like Jay did duck wraps and they were teal and they were fantastic on the Smoker. And he also smoked some sausage from the big animal that BK kill orcs or something. It's a. It's an African animal.

[Jason]

It was good, delicious.

[Zach]

And then Lisa made two roast, so. So we had beef, this exotic animal, and then we had ducks. And then we had all the fixings, of course, everything. The sassy was the meat sweats. Oh, yeah, yeah. And the whole thing was just food. And so Nicole Blaze wife, looked at. She said, I just can't believe people eat like this. I mean, she was like, I mean, how often do y' all do this? And I was like, pretty much every day.

[Jason]

Yeah, I ate crawfish.

[Guest Speaker]

Reason why PhD was a great.

[Zach]

That's exact.

[Guest Speaker]

We were a great candidate.

[Zach]

So how do you. How do you. I said, well, you just have to eat in smaller quantities for me, you know. But, yeah, this stuff we could eat, you know, it's veggies.

[Jason]

Well, that's how we were raised. We. We literally lived.

[Zach]

And poor Mom. She's been in a. In a place and. And obviously they don't cook like that. I mean, they're cooking for a larger number of people.

[Jason]

That's the only thing she's been negative about in her comeback to her way of life is she's like, this. This food will kill. I need to get out of here because this food will kill you.

[Zach]

So she said, be a. There's a. That sits with her. And she sent a note to me from the lady because I had said something about bringing some chicken by because Lisa cooked some chicken. She said, when are you getting here with the chicken? I said, I'm on my way, Mom. And she said, I come in, and she's just like, wow, this is good, you know, I said, well, did they not serve lunch? And she said, oh, I took one bite and said, please take this away. I feel sorry for these people.

[Jason]

The last time I saw her, when I walked in, she was mid conversation. She's like, first of all, if you're going to make a pizza, you need all natural ingredients, honey. You don't take things out of the packages and put it. Put on it. But what y' all did was y' all bought a pizza that people had put together, and then they froze it, and then you're going to warm it up and try to get me to eat it. I can't eat that.

[Zach]

And the little girl, last night we came back, we brought mom back, and I brought her back a hamburger, one of my hamburgers. And so I said. And the woman comes in, she says, Ms. K I saved you some of that pizza. She said, I told you, I don't like that. Of course, now with mom, it's like the governor's all. She's not even trying to be nice about it. It's just like, no, your food is terrible.

[Jason]

Yeah. Look, we're. We're gonna, we're gonna be food snobs.

[Zach]

And she's actually. The resurrection, she's actually moving it back into our compound. We're excited about it today. And so she's more excited about the food. Jason, anything. Getting all the leftovers and all that. So it's a good thing.

[Jason]

Well, it is to make our transition back to John. It is interesting that one of the things that Jesus did post resurrection was actually, I think he was doing it to prove he had his body back because they didn't believe him due to joy and amazement. And he's like, do you have any fish?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And they got to watch a man who was dead eat that fish. Which was very pivotal in me coming to the Lord, because when I read that for the first time, I was just so amazed that this was a part of the post resurrection life as an option.

[Zach]

Well, it's funny, there's a lot of people ask me about things that tempt me now that I've been on this diet. Most things don't. But I will say I broke off my diet last week because when Lisa and I were coming home from New Orleans, there's a place in Man Shack which is just a swamp and it's been there for 100 years. And it's a. It's a fish place called Midden Doors. And we used to always stop when we'd get in the west when I would go play in the dome. We would stop by there and eat. They have the best thin cut catfish of anybody I've ever had. And they got pretty good model here at Catfish Charlies. But Midnurst is the best. And I just couldn't. I just had to eat it. The fish was the one thing I was like, because I don't eat fried stuff anymore. But I was like. And then BK was with us. She always gets the frog legs. And theirs are good. They're not as good as yours, Jace. But I told. I said, have you ever eaten Jason's frog? Then she said, no. And I said, now his are better. I'm going to tell you, but this is the best. Fresh, the better. The frogs are better. That's right. But they get the perfect frown on them. They're really good. I tasted it But. But I did break my diet for the fried cat is fish. I mean, there's no doubt that's why the Lord chose it. I. It is the best.

[Jason]

I'm kind of that way because I realized, I guess that's late 20s. I could not drive by one of these donut places who. Who are constantly serving them hot. Look, I had the schedule on a notebook for all the places on when the new batches would be ready. And I would come to.

[Zach]

You might have a problem if you're keeping up with this.

[Jason]

I had a journal of donut frying in our local community, and I would always stop at the window. And it used to make Missy so angry because I would say, I'll take a dozen of those hot donuts that you just prepared, and everyone's going up.

[Zach]

There in the front of the counter and getting them ones you did an hour ago.

[Jason]

Well, I made that clear. And every once in a while, due to whatever in the donut world, they would say, oh, we're delayed today. And I said, I'll be right over there in the corner. I'm gonna go ahead and pay you now. And miss it. Be like, we're waiting. They have donuts. I'm like, oh, we're waiting.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And I just can't pass them up. So there's only one place left here that I know has a schedule. And every time my kids come in, they couldn't. They open at midnight. Which I think I've told stories about this before, but, boy, they'll come back and I just can't turn them down. But I'm like, when you get my age, if you're just chasing down a dozen donuts at about 1am in the morning, that's probably not going to end well.

[Zach]

No, it's not good. You'll wind up on PhD with me.

[Guest Speaker]

Yep.

[Zach]

All right. Well, does. You had transitioned us and I took us back out. But let's get back to the fish because that's where we are in the text. Actually, this last time we talked about. We read last podcast 2010 through 18, which is Mary Magdalene. I did want to mention one thing because it's going to come up again in verse 19. Not exactly the same, but we mentioned about the gardener. Jace.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And you and Zach have both talked about this before that. This kind of. What do you call it, Zach? A garden motif where it kind of is going back. Kind of like that description Zach had in the last one about the atonement seat, which I really like the idea of a gardener. It Is kind of a re. Creation.

[Jason]

Oh, it's a new creation.

[Zach]

The new creation. Right. So, Jayce, during the Christmas season, I think it's always great because the idea of a mother, a choice, a baby Jesus coming into the earth, us kind of carrying on that love for life, it's just a great season.

[Jason]

I think the number one problem in our culture is not valuing life. And you see that in all the things that are going on in this world.

[Zach]

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[Guest Speaker]

I'D mentioned that what I was making, the motif was a temple motif of the holy of holies. But that's a picture of the garden. So really the garden is the origin story of the whole thing. So that is. I mean, so if you.

[Zach]

Which, by the way, Zach, you also had an angel there, remember, blocking the entrance to get there.

[Jason]

And you have the tree of life. And technically, his death on a tree became the tree of life. But in all these verses we haven't mentioned, it's like in chapter one where it's like in him was life, and that life was the light of all men. So when you couple that verse, he is light when he said, I am the truth, the way, the life. That's why his body did not decay. He's God in a human being. So not only. I mean, he went through this death, and we get it. He's carrying all the consequences for sin. And all the enemies of God are doing their worst to him in that moment. And he is Triumphing over the enemies that bring death itself and temptation. I mean, you can just idols everything that contributes to being bad. He takes it on himself. But he didn't die. He died. And then in him is life. You can't kill God. He is the author of life. I mean, I'm having trouble just finding English words to describe this. And then so I think what we do, because we read the Bible and you got to remember these men wrote this and they're using terms that when we just start reading the text, they're not actually, we don't have accurate terms to describe his new mode of being. And to give you an example, that's just off the top of my head, it's like when we talk about Jesus coming or going back to the Father. Well, those are time and space words. If you come or you go, well, that means time and space has to be involved.

[Zach]

Right?

[Jason]

That's not what's happening. Right. He's not. So. So this scene starts in verse 19 of chapter 20 on the evening of that first day of the week when the disciples were together. Now, why is he saying the doors are locked for fear of the Jews? Well, Jesus came and stood among them. Now look, if you can go through a building and you've already determined that you have hands and feet because he said, stick your, put your hand. He's not really coming in there. That's why some of the verses that talk about Jesus second coming, it just says appearing. You're like, why are they saying appearing? Because somebody finally figured out, look, if you're in this, whatever this mode of being he is, you're no longer bound by time and space. But if you're trying to write and depict how he got there, well, what are you going to say? That's why some of them say he appeared because he has a new body. You want to push back.

[Guest Speaker]

No, I mean, I want to add too that he's not bound. Here's the caveat. He's not bound by time and space, but he's in time and space. And that's the significance of the meal, is that when we about talk, think about the resurrection of Christ. It wasn't a resurrection into a ghostly form. It was a resurrection into a body. Now, the body was not like. It was not like the bodies we have here, but it was tangible. I mean, it could like touch it, it could eat. I mean, think about Jesus body as consuming food. I mean, that is a extremely significant detail because it gives us a picture of the new heaven and new earth to come. That we're not going to be floating around spirits. We're going to be spirits that are embodied. And so just like Christ was. Romans 6 says that we will be raised just as Christ was raised. Well, how was Christ raised? He was raised with a body. And that body was not bound by time and space, but that body was in time and space to the point that it could actually even eat food. I don't know what else it can do. But, I mean, obviously it could go through walls and do some things like that he could fly, because the ascension, we see that he ascended. So there were. Obviously it was. It was a glorified body, but a.

[Zach]

Body nonetheless, and that could function. So, and I'll read this to Jay, since you brought it up in the Luke account in 2436, while they were still talking, Jesus himself stood among them. Now, there's a different way of framing it, right? It's just, okay. All of a sudden, he's standing there. He's standing there and he says, peace be with you. And I would imagine we've talked about this because he says it twice in the John context, that it's probably what we would say was, hey, ho, ho, settle down. I mean, it was probably such a ruckus. It was more of a ho, ho, settle down. It's me is probably what he was saying. But he could have just been saying, peace with you. Then they. Then they were startled, it says, and frightened because they thought it was a.

[Jason]

Ghost, which I think, from their perspective. What else would you think?

[Zach]

Well, that's right.

[Jason]

He was dead.

[Zach]

Now all of a sudden, he's standing there.

[Jason]

That's why we have so many ghost stories.

[Zach]

Exactly.

[Jason]

You see something, you're not sure, or you think you saw somebody who was dead. It must have been a ghost, because I know it's not him.

[Zach]

Look on those two.

[Jason]

But it is him. And they really make a point. In the Book of Acts. Just think of all the phrases in the sermon. This same Jesus that you just saw leave, will come back. And the man Jesus in Peter's sermon, he's like, this man was handed over you. That's Acts 2, like 20. And following this man, Jesus was. Why is he still calling him a man? Well, because he is. But he's. He's a superman.

[Zach]

He's a different man. So then he says to them in the Luke contest, why are you trouble? Why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands. To your point, Jace, and my feet. It is I myself. Touch me and see. A ghost does not have Flesh and bones. As you see, I have. Now that's something interesting that we don't talk about much, but the son of God and the creator of the cosmos just acknowledged ghost.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Because we're always like, oh, there's no such thing as ghosts. But he says a ghost does not have flesh bones. As you see, I am so the creator of all things just said there are ghosts are real.

[Jason]

Maybe that's what you call the intermediate stage.

[Zach]

I guess so that is interesting.

[Jason]

But it's like First John 3 that says when he appears, it says what we will be has not been made known because we're having trouble with this. And we believe this. Yeah, I believe I'm going to get a new body. And I'm reading what his was like and I'm still having trouble just figuring out, oh, we're not going, we're not coming, we just are. And this, the boundaries that, that we're bound to here will no longer apply.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jason]

And I think once you go down this road, you'll see a state where there's no sin, there's no, you're not waiting. You're like, what are we going to do? None of the concepts that bind us today because it's. Even the way we use time will change. And our concept of time, which most of the Bible, when it starts talking about time, we put it into our category of understanding time. And I think a lot of times, no pun intended, he's talking about something bigger. Like the one that popped in my head is that Ephesians 5 where some translation says, like the NIV says make the most of every opportunity because the days are evil. But some translations say something about redeeming the time. And I don't think he's talking about don't sleep in or make time. It's God's time that he's giving you. I think he's more saying this whole time period is evil and he's brought us out of that in a present reality. But we realize deep down where we're headed, there's no time.

[Guest Speaker]

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[Zach]

And he, even Jesus even mentioned that. Remember when he said, you're only going to have me for a time? I mean you talked about night is coming, there's going to be a time.

[Jason]

Because he put it into their phraseology. But I mean, Jesus is eternal and we're going to be like him.

[Zach]

Yeah, just think about that. These pictures we're seeing are of that. By the way, every time we get into something like that, I always like to give you a reference. This really good book, it's called Seeing the Unseen by Joe Beam, who, who deals a lot with ghosts, evil spirits, things we read about in the Bible because remember the first person that saw the resurrected Lord had seven demons cast out by Jesus. So I mean seven demons that were indwelling her. So these things are real, right? So in verse 40 says he, the Luke says he showed him his hands, he showed him his feet. And while they still did not believe it, and he says because of joy and amazement. So they were so excited, they just couldn't believe it. But this probably now is just a wonder of it. Like we'd be the same way. I mean, all of a sudden if dad just showed up here, we're not going, I mean, we're going to have a hard time believing it's really him. If it just happened, you know, like we're having this discussion.

[Jason]

I mean, the more I study this though, I do look forward to that day of just all this being revealed, which when you read Romans 8, he kind of gets into the details of that. The sons, the children of God being revealed as we groan and we wait for the redemption of our bodies. So yeah, it's like a big, I mean, you think reunion, but it's a different kind of reunion because that means you're looking at the past, which is no longer something we look at, it just is.

[Zach]

So here's his response, Jason, and you've said this many times, he says, do you have anything here to eat? So just think about the context. He shows up, he appears just in the middle of the room. Whether he came through the door came through a dimensional door, did atomic control. Control where he meshed through the wooden. I don't know how he did it.

[Jason]

Which is another question Jesus asked that should be on the list, because in the context of the question, it is a very thought provoking question by Jesus. After you're dead, after you die, do you have anything to eat?

[Zach]

I'm telling you, these questions of Jesus.

[Jason]

Well, they'll huff and they'll puff and they'll blow your mind away.

[Zach]

Do you have anything?

[Jason]

The fact that I can ask that question after I'm dead, one day. One day, and I can wake up and say, okay, new body. What do y' all got to eat around here?

[Zach]

I'm hungry.

[Jason]

Give me some of the fish. Which tells you that, yeah, you're right.

[Zach]

Out of all the questions Jesus asked, this is one of the greatest.

[Jason]

I'm not going to apologize to my animal rights friends. But the King of Kings, one of the first questions asked post resurrection was, where is the fish?

[Zach]

Because let me bite into Jason's point. When he said, do you have any here to eat? They didn't say, we got some delicious vegetables. They said, we got a piece of broiled fish. And he took it and he ate it in their presence, which is amazing.

[Jason]

Which makes me just wonder if he says, you know, you could have put a little more spice.

[Guest Speaker]

Probably would have gone for fried fish.

[Zach]

But, I mean, you know, they didn't have Greece in the first century, maybe. I don't. Well, they had a lot of olive oil.

[Jason]

I'm sure they fried things.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jason]

But they.

[Zach]

It did say, broil fish.

[Jason]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Which is a lot of what I do now. And then he said, this is what I told you while I was with you. Everything must be fulfilled. It is written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and the Psalms, which is amazing. And then it says, this is why we know it's the same context as the one from John. He opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. And the way John describes that same thing is he breathed on them and said, receive the Holy Spirit. And then he brought up, if you forgive anyone's sins, they're forgiven. If you forgive. If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.

[Jason]

Well, that's kind of a tough one to wrap your head around. I know we brought this up before, but that breathing here is obviously going back. That's where we're getting this idea about the new creation. Yes, the breath of life. Yeah, the breath of life. And now he's breathing on the Spirit which is the Spirit was the same spirit hovering over the waters in the initial creation, where when God said, things were created. So now new creation, a new mode of being for humans has been introduced. That's why this is the pivotal moment. If you stop everything at the cross, there has to be a new mode of being for humanity. This hasn't been working since the first sin. And that's what he's introducing here. You can now have access to this spirit, which is God.

[Zach]

Right?

[Jason]

It's not like it's just, oh, it's a spirit. It's. That's where we get the idea of the Godhead, right?

[Zach]

And that. It's us, Zach. It's. We now are that temple. We are that temple where the presence of God lives. And you read that Ephesians 2, you know, 19 through 21.

[Jason]

And it's not like this is not confusing, because Paul spent a whole chapter asking these difficult questions. You remember in First Corinthians 15, when he's like, some of you ask, because they knew their story, and he reminds them the gospel, and he starts talking about the resurrection and how important it is, and the resurrection, body and death ultimately being destroyed. Then he asked that question. He's like, now about the resurrection of the dead. What kind of body will it be? And Paul uses the illustration, which I think is why creation itself points you to this being a possibility. Because he starts taking wheat, or. What are the examples he uses?

[Zach]

Yeah, kernel of wheat.

[Jason]

He's like, the body that is sown is one body. It's raised, it has a new form, but it's still wheat. So we can all understand that. If you see a kernel of wheat, you say, well, that's wheat. You put it in the ground and it's dead. And then life pops up a little green sprig. And if you give it enough time, which it'll take a while, then it has more of the same thing that started, but it's alive. But the one that gave it life was dead. But it has a new body. And that's the example he made in. Let's see. I'll just read the text where it says. He actually says, that's a foolish question. 15:35. 15:35. Someone may ask, how are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come? How foolish. What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. When you sow, you do not plant the body. That will be but just a seed, perhaps wheat or something else. But God gives it a body, as he has determined. And each kind of seed. He gives its own body. All flesh is not the same. Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another, fish another. There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies. And he talks about the sun in verse 41 has one kind of splendor, the moon, the stars, another differ. So it will be 42 at the resurrection of the dead. The body of the Son is perishable. Here's what I love, because he moves deeper than just, okay, Wheat has this one physical mechanism in that it's a kernel. Then it has a different body as a plant. But he takes the bigger picture when he says the body that is sown is perishable. It is raised imperishable.

[Zach]

This is where you get out of the analogy into the real.

[Jason]

Yeah, it is the body. And what causes so much confusion? Because once again, we are having trouble trying to come up with English words that describe Jesus body in one breath. He's like.

[Zach]

Because there's only been one. And he was only here 40 days.

[Jason]

And first John 3 says, we're going to be like him. And Philippians 3 says the same thing. We'll be transformed our bodies to be like his glorious body. So we're going to. And he was a man and he got his body back. So then he's like, it's sown in dishonor, it's raised in glory, it's sown in weakness, raised in power. It is sown a natural body or earthly body. It is raised a spiritual body or heavenly body. But it's now the mode of being. That's why I keep saying that phrase has. Has changed. Did they recognize Jesus? Yes, but some people didn't recognize him at first, like Mary. So.

[Zach]

Or we didn't get into it. We probably will in the future. Podcast. But in right before that scene, we just read in Luke 24, remember, there was two disciples walking along on the road to Emmaus. And he walks up beside him, starts talking. They have no idea it's him. So something. He did something. Because then in a flash, at the very end of the conversation, by the way, after he had a meal with him, they saw him and then he was gone.

[Jason]

This gives new meaning to all these phrases that we have across the Earth when it's like, be all you can be. Well, after the Resurrection, you're going to be things.

[Guest Speaker]

That's the army, right? The army.

[Zach]

That's right. Well, I'm just saying.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, I think that campaign ended up about 15 years ago, but I remember it.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jason]

Or. But I'm Saying the possibilities are going to be enhanced post resurrection is my point.

[Zach]

We can be more than we can be.

[Jason]

You can be more than you ever thought you could be. And you can be places without. There won't be places. It just is. And, and you're.

[Zach]

So Jay is. The holiday season is here. You're always trying to find that, that gift. And you guys are. You found aura frames, right? And so that's going to be a gift for y'. All.

[Jason]

Oh, I think it's a perfect gift. I've got kids everywhere and grandparents who want to keep up with them. So you can give them this.

[Zach]

So my daughter Alex, who is, who, who is my computer whiz and takes care of dear old dad, has given me one. And so I get the beauty of my grandkids and the pets and everything else sent to me. All that's the beauty of this gift. It's the gift that keeps on giving. So here's what happens. You get unlimited free photos and video when you download the Aura app and you connect to wifi and you can even preload the photos before it ships. And so all these photos, your grandkids, your family, your pets, all the things you love, you can send these to people for a limited time. Save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get $35 off Aura's best selling Carver mat frames, which by the way were named number one by wirecutter by using promo code unashamed at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code unashamed. This deal is exclusive to our listeners and frames sell out fast. So order yours now to get it in time for the holidays. Support our show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Well, and then Paul goes on to say, jason, you stop. But he goes on to compare it to Adam because he says, the first man Adam became a living being, the last Adam, a life giving spirit. So he's bringing that narrative in that we've been talking about the whole time. You had the original man, you had the original sin that took place in the garden. You had Satan's presence. And even then Jesus is mentioned in Genesis 3:15, when Satan is cursed by God again. And he says, you will strike his heel, but he will crush your head. And it's a definite reference to what we're talking about.

[Jason]

And death reigned, you know, think Romans 5 and you see the signs of death with disease and sickness and all these things, all the things that remind us that we're perishable. But Then when Jesus pulls this off, well, life reigns. Now you surrender to Jesus, you receive his spirit, you can't help but live. It's like the opposite that was happening is inevitable. You're like, oh, I got cancer. But you're a believer. You're like, oh, no, it's inevitable. I'm coming back. It doesn't matter.

[Zach]

Doesn't matter.

[Jason]

And it changes your whole perspective now because of this new creation, this new mode of being that was introduce and that is. It's a reality.

[Zach]

Yeah. And we talked about. We talked about Blake on the last podcast being injured in Afghanistan. It's the same thing with our old friend Triple J. Johnny, Joey Jonesy, he lost his legs in Afghanistan, but he and I have had the conversation before. As long as he's on Earth, he's got to walk around his prosthetics. But I was like, but, you know, in the resurrection, all things restored, Joey.

[Jason]

I mean, you're going to be legally better than legs. I mean, it's because, you know, I'm still trying to wrap my head around how he got through the door with it being locked and you have a body.

[Zach]

And he ate.

[Jason]

And he's eating not to sustain life, because if we don't eat.

[Zach]

And actually, like you said, it was the second meal he had just eaten with the two guys on the road to a mass. Then he said, well, there'll be no.

[Guest Speaker]

Insulin resistance, there'll be no diabetes, no obesity, no heart disease. Just, I mean, whatever you want.

[Jason]

Yeah. Yeah. Because he's actually doing a lot of eating in a short period going on. Well, then he has a little camp. Camp fire on the beach, and they have a nut that's an extra.

[Zach]

Get into that.

[Jason]

We'll eat some more. So you don't even get full.

[Zach]

No, just don't get eaten for enjoyment. Yeah, well, we've always wanted. Zach is.

[Guest Speaker]

That's what we've always said. I mean, Jason said, some people eat the survive. And what do you say we eat? Do you have a line?

[Jason]

No, my wife said that. She's like, I came from a family who ate to survive, but your family survives to eat.

[Zach]

That's so good.

[Guest Speaker]

That's the resurrection, man. I mean, we're just. Hey, we talk about the not yet now. That's the Not Yet Now.

[Zach]

Ten years ago, when I lost some weight and I went to a doctor, another doctor, not Dr. Ashley, to do it, he gave me this plan, and he was trying to kind of psychologically get me ready, and he said, so you got to do two things. He said, and you're a preacher, right? And I said, yes, sir, I am. He said, I'm gonna give you two words. He said, one is called repent. You know what that word means? I said, oh, I know it well. As he said, what does it mean? I said, you have to change. He said, that's it. You got to change your approach to food. I said, all right, repentance. I got it. It's. In a way, I got it. He said, the second word is divorce. You know what that word means? I was like, yeah, I know what that means, but what does divorce have to do with this? He said, you have to divorce your love for food. And I was like, doc, that's a tough one. Because I said, here's the deal. I'm kind of not a divorce guy. I'm more like a separation with a hope of reconciliation. That's where I'm at.

[Guest Speaker]

But do you feel like you've divorced it now? You've gone through the PhD?

[Zach]

No, I still love it. I just had to love different things. And that's why I'm looking forward to the resurrection, because then I can eat those things that I can't eat right now. So, you know, including fried catfish from mid endorse, I don't.

[Guest Speaker]

They won't matter then. But your desires may be. May be redeemed. You may not want fried catfish in heaven. That's why Jesus ate broiled. I mean, he did. He ate the broiled fish.

[Jason]

I think you're missing the greater point that. Because even then, I thought, then only.

[Zach]

We can make a theological decision on it.

[Jason]

He's created a fish and now he's eaten one. Post resurrection, there was, you know, there's still things given its life just to make a point that he came back from the dead. So I don't know.

[Zach]

I mean, I will say this, that about this particular context that a lot of people have missed, and maybe somebody listening has still missed it, is the fact there is a body, a physical body.

[Jason]

I agree.

[Zach]

You don't want to miss that. Because a lot of people say, oh, yeah, this spiritual. Yeah, you're a spirit, then you're. No, no, no, wait a minute. He didn't say you're a spirit. In fact, he kept saying it. The body, the body, the body, the body. So you got to understand, it is a physical body. Spirits don't eat. Ghosts don't. Jesus acknowledged they're ghosts, but they're not eating because they're ghosts. They're not. They're not capable of doing that.

[Jason]

Which is why I kind of moved from when I first came to the Lord. I was just thinking, oh, we're going to go off to some weird place, you know, I mean, they were calling it heaven, and I'm just going to be this floating, noxious cloud. Well, yeah, but, you know, the more I read this, I'm like, and when you start thinking about the term new heaven and new Earth and. And why am I getting a new body and why are we going through all this if this is not redeemable in some way? And I think really what the light bulb came on is seeing heaven and earth from the beginning being interlocked and God dwelling with people and whatever that existence was. Now I know there was the Tree of life there. That was the gift of eternal life. But this seems to be something, what Jesus is introducing here. It seems to be even better than that because the heavenly and earthly is united in a way where I can live forever with God and have all the great things. The idea of this, I mean, you think about your best memories as a kid and all this gathering around on the earth, doing things, fishing or picking up berries and all that as a family, all those things were great. And if you can do something experientially together forever, that's relatable. I think that's the good news of what he's introducing here.

[Zach]

Oh, yeah. And even thinking about it, like the idea, like we just got together for Thanksgiving with our family that we do every year, and it's always centered around a meal, you know, and it was a big one. It was a big meal. We had fried turkeys. We had all these things. And even though I didn't eat everything on the table, the idea of us being together as a forever family. I think back to that text that he makes that change. We mentioned James back in verse 17, when he, instead of calling him just his disciples, he said, go to my brothers. And I don't know that he's ever called them his brothers up until this point. I mean, that's a new frame of reference for his disciple. He's called them servants. He's called them brothers.

[Jason]

He called them friends.

[Zach]

Friends. I mean, there's a lot of different things. But he said, go to my brothers. And then he says, as we mentioned last time, return to my father and your father, to my God and your God. And so there's an elevation here of the idea of family, and it's forever family. And so I even think about when Jesus told a member, they asked about marriage in heaven and and he said, there won't be any marriage. There won't be need for it. You know, you won't. There won't be procreation. There won't be. It's going to be.

[Jason]

That's a nice way to say what he said. He's like, you're ignorant of the scriptures and don't understand the power of God.

[Zach]

Exactly.

[Jason]

But because you asked, that's what he said. It was a. It was a.

[Zach]

Well, because they were trying to trap him. Every question they asked, they weren't. They weren't legitimate questions because they kept trying to trap him. And he just. It was annoying to see.

[Jason]

But his answer was. I mean, I was kind of trying to be funny there, but we're underestimating the power of God. I mean, I don't. John said it. What we will be has not been made known. So I think it's fine to say.

[Zach]

There'S only been one, and he's only here 40 days.

[Jason]

But the speculation is, you can see this connection. I think it's easier to find peace in this. When you look at heaven and earth being back together, God and people back together in a eternal way of relationship. And it causes that. Romans 8 keeps saying we're the children of God, which is kind of the fulfillment of the original nation of Israel being known as the children of God. Jesus coming through Israel as the ultimate Israelite, which is what they should have been. And then he not only redeems the Israel nation, but welcomes everyone from the planet to be a part of this new children of God in the new creation.

[Zach]

Right. And that we're raised up for that very purpose. Which again shows the importance of not just the idea that somehow we're sitting around only waiting for the resurrection. We live a resurrected life even here while we're on earth awaiting the final confirmation of everything being put together. But it doesn't diminish the fact of we have great life, we already have been resurrected and have the Holy Spirit living in us.

[Jason]

That's true. Now, we spent a lot of time talking about that. But ultimately this actual resurrection does guarantee you being raised.

[Zach]

That's exactly right. So the next time we get back into this text, there's another appearance in particular, Thomas, who for whatever reason has not been a part of these gatherings. He missed it. And he's mentioned a couple of other times because he is a curious. He's probably the most curious disciple, I would say, based on his couple of other questions he's had, which we'll get into next time.

[Jason]

But even him. You'll see. He'll make a profound phrase. That's the first time that's been said by one of them. He finally figured out who Jesus is. And my whole point, I used to read this in a negative light, like Mary's crying. I mean, he's raised, what's wrong with you? Peter's doubting what's wrong with you. But I think Jesus is making a point that we are humans, and despite our weaknesses and us being emotional or doubting, he wants to use us anyway. And you'll figure it out if you'll just hang with me.

[Zach]

No, and I think it's a fair point because it also explains why he would cry at Lazarus's tomb. Exactly. You know, when he knew. He's fixing to raise him up, you know, so, I mean, it shows you that he's okay with that as well. All right, we're out of time. We'll. We'll pick it up here next time on Ashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.