Ep 1232 | Jase & Lisa Harper Open Up About the Adoption Heartbreak No One Talks About

Summary

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Episode Overview

Podcast: Unashamed with the Robertson Family
Episode: #1232 — Jase & Lisa Harper Open Up About the Adoption Heartbreak No One Talks About
Date: December 18, 2025
Theme:
The episode features Lisa Harper, a renowned Bible teacher and author, joining the Robertson family for a candid conversation centered around faith, brokenness, personal transformation, and the under-discussed heartbreaks of adoption. With their trademark authenticity and humor, the group dives deep into stories of family, personal struggle, and experiencing God's fatherly love — especially through adoption and difficult seasons of life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing Lisa Harper & The Power of a Worn Bible

• Phil notes Lisa’s Bible: “I’m already liking you, Lisa, because I’m looking at that Bible and that screaming of my dad…” (01:32)
• Lisa shares about her father and Bible: Her father, hard and rough early in life, but deeply repentant later, wrote in her Bible before passing. “It's kind of a security blanket.” (01:51)

2. Humor & Christian Culture – Awards, Waffle House, and Glitter Pants

• The group exchanges stories about the K-Love Fan Awards (dubbed “Christian prom”), Lisa’s unhemmed glitter pants fixed with Gorilla Tape, and the confusion with actress Lisa Whelchel.
• Lisa’s candidness and humor shine:
  • “People get me confused with Lisa Whelchel all the time…” (06:32)
  • “Bougie camo pants… duct-taped at the bottom. Bible teacher. Just me.” (05:31)

3. Lisa’s Testimony: Brokenness & God as Father

• Origin Story:
  • Parents divorced at 5; father absent, struggles with shame and feeling “dirty.”
  • First met Jesus as a child seeking a father who’d never leave:
    • “…the pastor’s message just happened to be how our heavenly Father is a dad who doesn’t walk away from his children. And I was so desperate to have a dad.” (08:19)
• Ministry Calling:
  • Early ministry in high schools, navigating performance-based faith vs. genuine relationship:
    • “My heart was still performative… The fact that Jesus has been so patient… it’s relational, not earned.” (15:09)

4. Honest Conversation about Hitting Rock Bottom

• Lisa’s “collapse” (about 15 years ago):
  • Personal crisis: cancer scare, loss of dad and stepdad, other relationships.
  • “I was kind of shocked to find myself not able to put one foot in front of the other anymore… I heard the Lord… ‘Lisa, you’ve been running scared your whole life. I’m going to sit there with you in the dark until fear doesn’t own you anymore.’” (16:33)
• Season of Weakness:
  • Six months where she could barely get out of bed, but God’s presence became palpable.
  • “It’s always his compassion that leads to repentance… He kind of kicked what wasn’t godly out from under me.” (18:14)

5. Family Wounds & Finding Freedom

• Phil and Jase relate to Lisa’s experience, recalling childhood trauma — being kicked out of the house by their father (Phil during his years away from faith).
  • “You know, that’s probably my last memory…I was five or six. That does affect you.” (28:56)
• Jase on Outgrowing Shame:
  • Early public speaking anxieties (tearing a page out of his Bible by accident), and learning that it’s not about performance or self:
    • “The way I got over my fear of speaking is I would say this one sentence: It’s not about me.” (31:51)

6. Bible Study: From Leviticus to The Gospel’s Heart

• Enthusiastic discussion about the Bible’s depth—even the “hard” books like Leviticus:
  • “Last year I found this story in Leviticus that made me fall in love with Leviticus. There’s something redemptive on every page.” (35:23)
• Lisa’s approach: The Bible as a love letter, filled with gifts and surprise lessons.
• Women & Scripture:
  • Jesus’s radical treatment of women, and how ancient laws often protected rather than oppressed.
  • “Leviticus is an invitation to relationship… They thought the gods wanted to kill ‘em; the God of Abraham says no, I want you…” (39:44)

7. Adoption: Heartbreak, Healing, and the Gospel

• Lisa’s adoption journey:
  • Called to care for orphans, faced shaming from within the church:
    • “‘I think you’ve sabotaged your shot at parenthood, so maybe just adopt a dog’… God doesn’t use shame as a motivational tool.” (44:54, 46:41)
  • Two failed adoptions; heartbreak at the last minute; then a clear call to adopt Missy from Haiti after her mother died of AIDS.
• Emotional Highlight:
  • “I look in her face… She is tangible grace.” (51:23)
• Universal Adoption:
  • “We’re all adopted by God… That’s more than any story.” (53:02)
• Panel relates:
  • The Robertsons and Bash share their own powerful adoption and fostering stories, affirming God’s transformative work.

8. The Centerpiece: Relationship—Not Religion

• Key takeaways:
  • The heart of Christianity is presence, intimacy, and adoption rather than rule-keeping or performance.
  • The transformative power of honest, vulnerable community.
  • How suffering often draws us closest to God’s love.
  • “If we just do that linear and preach at people and they don’t feel heard, it’s a miss.” (26:33)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lisa Harper (on God the Father):

  “The pastor’s message just happened to be how our heavenly Father is a dad who doesn’t walk away from his children. And I was so desperate to have a dad…” (08:19)

• Lisa Harper (on brokenness):

  “He said, ‘Lisa, you’ve been running scared your whole life… I’m going to sit there with you in the dark until fear doesn’t own you anymore.’” (16:33)

• Jase Robertson (on overcoming shame):

  “The way I got over my fear of speaking is I would say this one sentence: It’s not about me.” (31:51)

• Lisa Harper (on Scripture):

  “If you get out of the Bible what you expect to get out of it, then you need to change your expectations—it’s always bigger, it’s always better.” (34:09)

• Phil Robertson:

  “He never lost the thrill of who Jesus is… what was different was that he never lost the thrill of who Jesus is.” (27:27)

• Lisa Harper (on adoption heartbreak):

  “I lost two adoptions. One at the 11th hour just broke my heart… But Missy’s 16 now… She is tangible grace.” (48:11, 51:23)

• Lisa Harper (on feeling unworthy):

  “I already thought I wasn’t good enough… God doesn’t use shame as a motivational tool.” (44:54, 46:41)

• Jase (on being adopted by God):

  “You’ve been adopted by God… Your story shows that more than any story I’ve ever heard. But we’re all adopted.” (53:02)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:51 – Lisa shares about her father’s repentance and her cherished Bible
• 08:17 – Lisa’s backstory: divorce, abandonment, and coming to faith seeking a true father
• 11:24 – Early ministry challenges; mixing performance with faith
• 16:33 – Lisa’s season of collapse and personal crisis; God’s gentle restoration
• 28:56 – Jase recounts childhood trauma of being kicked out by his father (Phil)
• 31:51 – Jase’s early failures in ministry and turning point with “It’s not about me”
• 35:23 – Lisa’s love for Leviticus, finding unexpected grace in difficult books
• 44:54 – The shameful advice to adopt a dog instead of a child
• 48:11 – Details of heartbreak in the adoption process and the journey to Missy
• 51:23 – “Missy is tangible grace”—Lisa’s heart for her daughter and gratitude for redemption
• 53:02 – The connection between earthly and spiritual adoption

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Tone & Style

The tone is warm, honest, and disarmingly humorous, with moments of deep vulnerability. There’s gentle teasing about awards and pop culture references, but also profound reflection on the beauty of God’s adoption, the painful realities of rejection, and the healing found in authentic faith and community.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode weaves together laughter, tears, and gospel wisdom as Lisa Harper and the Robertsons reflect on heartbreak, healing, and the miracle of adoption—both earthly and spiritual. Listeners will find solidarity in stories of human weakness and hope as the hosts and guests emphasize that in God’s family, no one is too broken or too late to be fully loved, known, and welcomed.

Transcript

[Lisa Harper]

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[Bash]

Cause there's always something new.

[Lisa Harper]

I'm giving all the gifts this year with that extra 5% off when I.

[Bash]

Use my Nordstrom credit card.

[Lisa Harper]

Santa who join the Nordy Club at Nordstrom Rack to unlock our best deals. It's easy. Big gifts, big perks. That's why you wreck kids. They grow up so fast. One day they're taking their first steps, and the next they don't fit into the tiny sneakers they took them in. You blink your eyes and their princess dress is two sizes too small. And their dinosaur backpack isn't cool anymore. But don't cry because they're growing up. Smile because you can profit off of it for real. There are a bunch of parents on depop looking for the stuff your kid just grew out of of download depop to start selling.

[Jase Robertson]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Phil Robertson]

Welcome back to Unashamed. Still on our Nashville. Nashville Barn, Las Vegas. Yeah. And it's really interesting because we had a country singer on, which. There's a lot of country singers in Nashville. We had a comedian on. There's a lot of comedians in Nashville. And today a Bible scholar.

[Lisa Harper]

Scholar is.

[Phil Robertson]

How many Bible scholars are there in there? You're very scholarly, Lisa.

[Lisa Harper]

Sounds appropriate. Appropriate after a singer and a comedian.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

So Lisa Harper is joining us on the podcast. And one thing I. I'm already liking you, Lisa, because I'm looking at that Bible and that screaming of my dad because his was not quite as many stickies as you have, but definitely the wornness and the writing and the. All the things. And you said this is special because your dad.

[Lisa Harper]

Yeah, my dad wrote in it before he passed. And my dad was. He was a many layered man. You know, pretty rough early start and then so much repentance. Yeah, myself too. So much repentance later in his life. And he was a real gruff. He was kind of a miniature John Wayne, so he didn't use a lot of words, but my dad knew the word of God, and so the latter half of his life was so amazing. And I just. I don't know. He wrote in this right before he died, and I just. It's kind of a security blanket. Wow.

[Phil Robertson]

Well, the first time I ever heard of you, we were. We were up for the Kayla Podcast the Year award together. And I just want you to know I voted for you. I just want you to know, I thought you were way better than us. We must have.

[Lisa Harper]

You know, I adore Sadie. I would follow Sadie cross cut glass, but I was like, if there's a Robertson in it, I just need to come and serve coffee.

[Phil Robertson]

So we were humbled by that.

[Lisa Harper]

The Caleb fan words. I always say it's like Christian prom. Prom.

[Phil Robertson]

It is. It is.

[Lisa Harper]

Some people take ourselves real seriously, y'.

[Jase Robertson]

All.

[Lisa Harper]

This is Christian prom.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. Come on.

[Lisa Harper]

But it's fun. We always go to Waffle.

[Jase Robertson]

Actually, I actually was at Caleb yesterday because my other son, his fiance, works there.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, really?

[Jase Robertson]

And we wanted to surprise her for her birthday. And so we get there, we have flowers and a card, and. Well, now everywhere, there's so much security, you know, And I walk in and I thought, it's Caleb. I've been on your. Your show. Well, the security guy I want to warranty.

[Lisa Harper]

They don't play.

[Jase Robertson]

He did not recognize me. And he's like. I was like, no, I was on your.

[Lisa Harper]

You.

[Jase Robertson]

I won an award. I was like, I'm going to make this happen. And he's like, you're not going anywhere. So that was embarrassing. But then just randomly, here she comes. Like, she was leaving for the day.

[Bash]

Lisa, you could get it.

[Phil Robertson]

You could get in there, right?

[Lisa Harper]

I actually came from K Love here. That's where we record our podcast. Okay. I think that's the only reason we ever get up with y' all on the award show as my guest. But they're great, great people. We loved watching that building as you. They were based in California and they moved to Nashville or Franklin. And so watching it being built right next to Dave Ramsey's, you're kind of like, this is a little bit of the city on a hill.

[Jase Robertson]

Oh, it's so nice.

[Lisa Harper]

Yeah. And they're nice people. They are the nicest people.

[Jase Robertson]

No, they really were. It was a positive story, but another guy's doing his job.

[Lisa Harper]

But, I mean, Jase, it happens to me every time. If they don't meet me down there, I mean. And I feel like. I really do feel like somebody's going to come and handcuff. Very serious about security there.

[Jase Robertson]

I think it was escalated just based on the way I look.

[Phil Robertson]

We were laughing because the. The award show is really just a fantastic Christian concert because everybody's performing these great songs, and we loved it. We had a blast. And then so. But I go back to watch the show, to see our part when we win and go on stage, and they had us, like, all lumped together with, like, six other things and, like, in the award show, we're like, five seconds.

[Lisa Harper]

Sure.

[Phil Robertson]

Jason, Missy, say a little thing and boop. That's all of it. Shannon Bream.

[Lisa Harper]

It's always so condensed, and I always sense.

[Phil Robertson]

I mean, really important. Yeah, yeah.

[Lisa Harper]

And so I'm like, I. Shannon Bream, who I adore. I'm like, who are you gonna do, focus on, me or Shannon? I'm so sure. And so I always try to, like, back off the camera because I know who they really want to shoot. The first year I went, I. Because I thought it was kind of a big deal. You know, my mom will see it. And so I bought these real bougie pants, and I didn't think of it until the night before that I didn't have them hemmed. And I know you have a pair of these. They're glitter pants. And so you know what that is?

[Jase Robertson]

Glitter pants. I really don't.

[Lisa Harper]

Kind of camo in a bougie kind of way, but they're really heavy. And I thought, I don't have time to get these hemmed. So I had gorilla tape. So I just duct taped the bottom. You know, I'm single and old, so I've got reception saws. Yeah, I know you've got duct tape pants. So I duct tape my pants while I'm presenting with sh. Shannon Bream, who's just so godly, so classy. And my pants, they're probably £5 at the bottom. And you're like, who is the chick with gorilla tape on her pants? I'm like, it's just me. Bible teacher. Just me. So people get me confused with Lisa Welchel. Anyway, all the time he was on Facts of Life. I had women stand in line this weekend at a women's conference, and they were like, I had such a hard time in high school, but I would come home and I would watch your show, and I'd be okay. And I always think, do I tell them? Because they just waited because they're having a moment. Yeah. And I'm thinking they might be still a little mentally to sandwiches short enough picnics. So I'm not sure whether to say, I'm not that Lisa, and disappoint them.

[Jase Robertson]

So don't disappoint them.

[Bash]

Let it ride. Let it ride.

[Jase Robertson]

You could actually be a comedian. I mean.

[Bash]

She was in West Monroe a couple weeks or Monroe a couple weeks ago at Sadie's conference, and she was the keynote speaker.

[Jase Robertson]

Okay. Is that how y' all got hooked up on this, or.

[Bash]

I've actually. We've just Met today, but I've watched her from afar, and. And then I got to hear you speak, and I was like, wow. And then watching you interact, I said, we need to get her on the podcast. I think she would be really. I think our audience would really like it. We could get into a really interesting Bible study.

[Lisa Harper]

She loves this. And she's a little whacked.

[Bash]

I like that.

[Phil Robertson]

Other than the beard, you fit right in.

[Lisa Harper]

I mean, that y' all know of. You know, it's later in life. You have no idea what you make her out.

[Jase Robertson]

Tell us how this started for the people who were introducing you to. I mean, where did this just you.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah. Tell us how you came to the Lord.

[Jase Robertson]

Like, people look at me, they know me from Duck Dynasty. They see my wife, and I know what they're thinking. How? Yeah, how?

[Bash]

Why?

[Jase Robertson]

What? Where?

[Lisa Harper]

Your wife and I got to do some ministry together, and I just thought she hung the moon. So I was predisposed to like you, despite the camera.

[Phil Robertson]

She's part of his ministry, so he's part of her.

[Lisa Harper]

I know. He was kind of show and tell.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jase Robertson]

He was actually an evidence of God because some people need more help, and God sends them listen.

[Lisa Harper]

That's my whole story, Chase. My whole story. I grew up. My parents divorced when I was really little. Five years old, my dad left, and so I was brought up in a Christian home, but not as south as Louisiana. I was pastoral, but not a Southern. I grew up in central Florida. What part? So did he just. North of Orlando.

[Bash]

Okay. I grew up in Gainesville.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh.

[Lisa Harper]

I used to work at a Christian camp. Lake Swan Camp.

[Bash]

I've been there before.

[Lisa Harper]

Oh, my goodness. Yeah. I have some great memories just seeing kids come to Christ at that camp. But after dad left, mom had to move us to another church because a lot of women at our first church were disguising gossip as prayer requests. So she moved to a set of church. And I can still remember y' all, like, yesterday. The pastor's name was Brother Jimmy, and his message just happened to be how our heavenly Father is a dad who doesn't walk away from his children. And I was so desperate to have a dad. I was devastated. My dad left us. And you when you're a little kid, I thought it must be. Be at least partly my fault. You know, I should have used my inside voice or I went through that.

[Jase Robertson]

With our, you know, whole thing. Yeah. You're like, what did I do wrong?

[Lisa Harper]

Right. If I had just been better, I could have. And he left for another woman. And her child. So that when you're a kid, you just think it does become a comparison thing. And so when he talked about dad, our heavenly Father wouldn't leave their kids. I thought, I've been praying for dad like that. And I was five years. They didn't have children's church back then. I'm 62, so, you know, we sat on pews, those long wooden benches, there's no cup holders, no coffee in the lobby, and I'm holding on the back of the pew in front of me. And it was one of the churches. And I love these churches where they sing just as I am, you know, 52 times until somebody comes forward and we're not stopping too, somebody's got to come forward. But I was scared because I was just a kid. But the idea that God wouldn't walk away from me was so compelling that I walked an aisle as a five year old kid and told brother Jimmy, you know, I wanted to know Jesus because I wanted a dad who wouldn't walk away. But during that same period of time, some men came and went from our family who were pretty abusive. So I got the whole, my heart is dirty and I need Jesus conflated with I'm dirty. So as best I understood as a five year old, I gave my heart to Jesus, but I lived. The story I identify with most in the gospels is the woman who has been over for 13 years. Because even though I knew him as my Savior, I just thought, I've got to do better, be better, do better, be better. And I lived really bent thinking, if God pays attention, he's going to be really disappointed that he lowered the bar to let me into heaven. So I tried to be really good in high school, went to college, went into youth ministry after that. There was no youth ministry for women when I was coming through. There are a few outliers, but I thought, I'm gonna have to learn to cross stitch, you know, or marry a pastor. There's nothing for me to do or go to China. And so a youth job opened up here in Nashville, Tennessee. And so that's what brought me to Nashville first time around. I thought, I do not like grits and I do not like country music. I'm gonna be in trouble. And then the first time I saw all these kids in high school come to Christ, that was back in the day. They would send me out with a paper map to high schools all over Tennessee. And my job was to get past the front office and talk them into let speak. And sometimes I just worm my Way into the administrators. I mean, can you imagine doing this today?

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, yeah.

[Lisa Harper]

And they'd be like, oh yeah, we'll let the kids out of school. And they'd be like, hey, everybody, you can leave class. You go to the gym, Ms. Harper's here. And all the kids would come in. At the first time I spoke, they.

[Phil Robertson]

Were thinking they needed some Jesus work.

[Lisa Harper]

Well, no, they wanted to get out of class.

[Phil Robertson]

So this Christmas, as every Christmas, we celebrate the gift of life. And we talk a lot about the birth of Jesus. We talk about why he came to this earth. You know, we can imagine what it must have been like for Mary, who has had an unplanned pregnancy. So we do that same thing every day with preborn ministries. Steve Jobs, Andrea Bocelli, Steph Curry, Jack Nicholson, Celine Dion, Oprah. You say, what do these people have in common? They were all unplanned pregnancies and so were many others. Maybe you were unplanned too. I have no doubt that you know someone who is unplanned. God's plan of redemption often works in the unplanned. When a woman is struggling to make a life altering decision, preborn network of clinics is there for her. Every mother preborn serves faces a moment of decision. And when she sees her baby's ultrasound in that sacred moment, she has the opportunity to say yes. Preborn's mission is to help her find the courage, faith and support to say yes. It's very important for all of us. It's important for you. This Christmas, for just $28, you can help save a life, a life that could change the world. And thanks to a special matching grant, your gift is doubled. To donate, dial £250. Say the keyword baby. That's £250, baby. Or go to preborn.comunashamed. that's preborn.comunashamed.

[Lisa Harper]

And so there'd be like 1500 kids. And I'd be like, oh my heavens to Betsy. And so the very this is way TMI for Duck Dynasty. You don't have this much estrogen on this often. But I got so nervous because McGavock High School, just crazy, wonderful high school here in kind of urban Nashville, about 1500 kids. And I thought, I have no idea what to start out with because they don't, they don't want to hear some bible teacher. They wanted to get out of class.

[Phil Robertson]

And.

[Lisa Harper]

And so the only thing I could think was, I need to start with a prayer. And while I pray, there was just one little microphone on the stage while I pray. I just hope the Holy Spirit will give me something. I know I've got to start with a story. Well, as I started to pray, I didn't know this, but evidently when I get nervous, there's a major nerve up the back of my leg that starts to quake violently. So my backside was quivering. And you could. I mean, it sounded like my whole voice was quivering, like I was crying. Well, so the kids all stopped because they're like, who is this chick who's crying? And I realized I've got about 30 seconds. And I had this crazy story of being gored by a bull. So I went from where they thought I was crying to telling the story of being attacked by a bull. How I segued into the gospel, I have no idea, but. But I just knew I got a ginger. Just a second. I don't know if he wants credit for it, but watching all these kids who had come to get out of Christ kind of have an encounter with Jesus in the middle of the day, I thought, man, if I get to do this for the rest of my life, I'll walk to see people encounter the love of Jesus. So that's kind of how it started. But my heart was still performative, you know, I feel like he's been so kind to me because I walked for so long. And the fact that Jesus has been so patient and really showed me. Lisa, it's relational. You don't have to earn my favor. Holiness is about intimacy with me.

[Phil Robertson]

Was there a specific time where you felt like you got released from that that you carried, or has it just been over the course of time where.

[Jase Robertson]

You, like, stood up?

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, I mean.

[Lisa Harper]

I mean, I really collapsed about 15 years ago. I just always been one of those, you know, pull yourself up by the bootstraps kind of girls. I'm super conservative, and my theology, not so much of my sociology, because I didn't get married. And at 40, I decided if I don't get a husband, I'm going to get a Harley Davidson. So you've never been married? Never been married, but you got a Harley? Well, I had one when I brought my daughter home from Haiti. She loved motorcycles. But we got run off the road by some guys flying a rebel flag. They didn't think you should have a old white mama with a beautiful Haitian little girl. And so we switched to a trike for a while, and then I just had this real. I just couldn't bring my baby on a bike for a while. I'll go back to him because there's something about. If you grew up Baptist, the excuse to wear leather pants is epic. So.

[Phil Robertson]

Especially with a twitchy leg. Yeah, with a twitchy leg.

[Lisa Harper]

I know. Jesus does not want credit for any of this.

[Jase Robertson]

I'm telling you right now, Zach's thinking about a movie about your life. We're a few minutes in here and this has turned into an advertising.

[Lisa Harper]

Advertisers would be spanked.

[Jase Robertson]

We don't need.

[Phil Robertson]

It'll be a movie.

[Bash]

It's a movie.

[Lisa Harper]

So we've got a movie. Well, what happened was I had been. And when I say successful, I'm using the term loosely, but I had been able to kind of pull myself up by my bootstraps and just work hard at being a dutiful Christian. For a long time, I'd been in vocational ministry. I'd gone to seminary the first go round. So I knew just enough Greek and Hebrew to hide behind it. I was just so afraid that somebody would look under the hood of my life and find me to be a fraud. And everything just kind of the bottom fell out. I was diagnosed with cancer. Ended up being not a big deal, but it presented real serious at first. I lost my dad, my stepfather, and that was a real tough relationship. He came to Christ eight weeks before he died. But it was pretty difficult relationship up to that. And then I lost another primary relationship. And I just had this, doggone it, I feel like the three main kind of legs under the stool in my life have been knocked out from under me. And I was kind of shocked to find myself not able to put one foot in front of the other anymore. And I can remember it like it was yesterday. I had this little cottage out in Leapers Fork, Tennessee, lived by myself, and I was on the floor. And I've had too much shame to have healthy weakness up until that point. So I pretended, oh, no, I'm fine, I'm fine. God, you've got so much to do with Iraq. I'm fine. I'm fine. To actually be honest about Jesus, I can't carry the weight of my own life anymore. And I heard the Lord through Holy Spirit. I've never heard an audible voice, but his voice was unmistakable and so loud in that moment. And he said, lisa, you've been running scared your whole life. And so I'm going to take you to the basement and I'm going to sit there with you in the dark until fear doesn't own you anymore. And he was so present. I think it's St. John who calls it the dark night. Of the soul. But his presence became so palpable. All the things I taught through the years, you know, it wasn't the Greek and the Hebrew that caused me to just actually collapse into the embrace of God. It was the I believe helped me in my unbelief. It was I'm your front guard and your rear guard. It was bring everything to me, don't curate your emotions. And there was about six months where I couldn't get out of bed without saying the name Jesus out loud. And then I'd kind of stumble to the bathroom and I had, you know, passages laminated in the bathroom, passages laminated in the shower. And I was so foolish, I was embarrassed that I was so weak. But God's presence was so, you know, it's always his compassion that leads to repentance. And so I'd say that it wasn't a moment, it was a season. But it was in his mercy. He just, he kind of kicked what wasn't godly out from under me.

[Phil Robertson]

Isn't that amazing too? It's God because he does love us so much. He could go all the way back to that five year old girl standing by that pew, knowing that hard and saying now we're going to release, you know, these things that have been there at least. And I had a similar experience in a counselor's office with an empty chair where there were some people that had harmed her and me and us. And where we had to invite Jesus into our circle.

[Lisa Harper]

Yes.

[Phil Robertson]

And then let that go from what its hold it had over us. And it was a season for us too, of counsel and. But it changed our lives, it changed our marriage. So I totally can relate to that.

[Lisa Harper]

Crazy how the things that you could, you could talk about it, you could teach about it, you could exit it.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, I taught and preached. Yeah, all of it.

[Lisa Harper]

But I emotionally, I think there was a corner of my heart that was agnostic. It's like I believed I could quote the multislavic theological phrases, but this corner of my heart didn't, you know, I just didn't believe that he would be enough. And I was so afraid of the painful parts of my story. I thought if I go back there, I'm gonna drown. And he just so graciously took the things that.

[Bash]

It's kind of a better off of intimacy though, like you, he sees you in your, like the worst thing about you or what you perceive to be and then he's like, I'm present. Which has kind of been weird about this podcast. I mean we, I Don't know how we started this. There wasn't really a clear objective to where we were going.

[Jase Robertson]

I wasn't even involved.

[Bash]

He wasn't.

[Phil Robertson]

He was a guest. That never lasted.

[Jase Robertson]

I was a guest.

[Lisa Harper]

That's a great guess.

[Bash]

Well, at first it was just Phil, and in fact, we had.

[Phil Robertson]

Blaze asked us. We did. We were on Blaze Network back those days.

[Lisa Harper]

Oh, I've watched y' all from the beginning.

[Phil Robertson]

And so Blaze asked Dad to do a podcast. Well, dad had no idea what a podcast was. I had heard of it, because my.

[Jase Robertson]

Kids literally did not know.

[Phil Robertson]

No, he didn't know. A pod. What's a pod?

[Bash]

He declined. He said, absolutely not.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, he actually told me. He's like, if you have a rod, I can cast that. He was like, I know what a ride cast, but I don't know what a podcast. He wasn't making a joke. He was like, I know.

[Phil Robertson]

What a broadcast. He said, where is the pod? What do we get in the pod?

[Bash]

The whole concept. I can't. So I waited, like, two weeks. I came back to him. I said, hey, Phil, what about. I got an idea. Why don't we do an Internet Bible study? And I just.

[Phil Robertson]

Anybody in the world.

[Bash]

And he goes, now you're talking, Bash.

[Phil Robertson]

Forget this pod stuff.

[Bash]

This Internet Bible study. That's. That's what we need to be doing. So for as long as he was alive, we never told him it was a podcast.

[Phil Robertson]

It was.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, me and my dad shared something in common. That's bad is at every turn where God was using our family, he would say, that'll never work. And I would say, amen to what he.

[Phil Robertson]

But God was arranging these things.

[Jase Robertson]

He's like, what? We're hunters? You're going to make a show about our family, and we're not going to hide. He said, that'll never work. And I am in. You know, and even with the podcast, nobody's going to watch a Bible study. Which we were thinking more, me and Phil, about reaching the world, like lost people. Like, why would somebody turn something on and listen to something they don't agree with without. Because I was more a relational person. That's that stage of my life.

[Phil Robertson]

But even the timing, because he said. He said, well, how long? We sat down and do the first one. How long we gonna do this? And they said, well, they want 58 minutes. He said, 58 minutes. He said, if you ain't wrapped it up in 25 minutes, you ain't. You ain't bringing it. Exactly. He was like. He was thinking, like, A sermon?

[Bash]

Well, we didn't have really a direction of the original getting to the word. What's funny is we've done a lot and we've covered a lot of the Bible. And what's interesting is now it's become very clear that the centerpiece of the whole thing is what you experience. The presence of God being with man. And when you were describing that, I was thinking about, I was reading this book about Thomas Aquinas. I just made me cry when I read this because his work was like some of the most influential Christian work in history. And he got to the end of writing his most pivotal work. And so he's a super intellectual guy, got to the end of it and he said he had a vision, a beautiful vision of the Lord that just made all of his writing seem like straw. So here's my question for you guys out there. Are any of you ready to own your own home? I can tell you right now that Jill and I have bought many homes over the course of our marriage. It's actually been the primary tool that we've built wealth with. So if you're feeling ready to buy, I'm telling you the time to act is right now. Because for the first time in years, buyers finally have the upper hand. And the reason why is that there's more inventory on the market, which means that you have more negotiating power and less competition. But opportunities like this won't last long because as soon as the feds cut the rates, guess what's going to happen? Buyer demand is likely to go up. And you know what that means? Prices will go up as well. And sellers will then have the advantage. Peak home buying season is in full swing. So now is your moment to lock in the right home for you and do it on your terms before the market shifts. I love Andrew and Todd, both these guys. I met him at a worship event at Monroe, Louisiana. They are the real deal. And I can tell you right now, the next time I'm in the market for a piece of property, it these are the guys that I want to call. I will get my mortgage through Andrew and Todd. Reach out today to get approved for mortgage financing with my friends Andrew and [e-mail] or call 888 Triple Eight 1172. These are the guys that I trust with 40 years of experience. They really are the experts and they make it easy because they keep everything in house. Call 88 triple 81172 or go to andrewandtod.com that's andrewandtod.com. and it was like he was in that place you were talking about where he had gone into the depths of all the philosophy and theology, which is important. But then he had this encounter with God that really shaped the rest of his life. And I thought, man, that's really what I think the Lord does, right?

[Lisa Harper]

I do too. And I love to study. I have Platonic crushes on all the old dead theologians. So I love reading those books too. And that common denominator, I think with all of them, Chalmers, Spurgeon, is there was this moment that they really did get to the end of themselves. And instead of it leading to ongoing despair, it's like it opened their eyes bigger to the compassion of God, of, oh, even though I bring nothing to the table, you still put me at your right hand and I'm a co heir with Christ. It's like the gospel gets bigger. And I think, I mean, that certainly has happened for me and the Word. Aren't y' all shocked by how many people who are on an elliptical or driving their car or in a coffee shop or making dinner will have y' all in their ear buds and they want authentic conversation about God?

[Phil Robertson]

Yes.

[Lisa Harper]

One of my other favorite dead guys, Francis Schaeffer, says biblical orthodoxy without compassion is surely the ugliest thing in the world. So I think what y' all do so well, it's the relational stuff that you're so great at with the biblical and you have great biblical insight next to Jesus. But if we just do that linear and preach at people and they don't feel heard, it's a miss.

[Phil Robertson]

And I think that's what changed for dad as we got into it. Not really sure where we were going is he figured out because he just, you know, Dad's just a bring it sort of guy. He's a John the Baptist, but he realized through community of conversation and that we then became a place where we could talk about a lot of deep Bible and theology, but we could do it in a way that was common to us, which would be common to a lot of people, they would get that.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I think even Phil's life, because I sat at his funeral, which I guess I just had the realization, I think when somebody dies, like as close as I was to my dad, I kind of look back on his life and I thought what was different than, like Christians that you see that get comfortable? And I came up with this idea because it was true that he never lost the thrill of who Jesus is. It's like he now granted he was going so far down the wrong road. It was such a moment. And even though it was bumpy, he found the declaration of Jesus and who he did and what he did just thrilling. And so thrilling to where if somebody got in earshot, he was like, let me sit down here, let me tell you. And somehow or another it disarmed them and they were like, oh, this is awesome. But, you know, here I am. My life, you know, when you told that story, I felt like I had to tell this because, you know, my. When I look back at our relationship, when my dad kicked us out of the house, Al you probably remember that it's one of the few images that now he's living like the devil and he comes in and makes a declaration in his underwear, holding a Budweiser saying, y' all get out. Well, to a kid, I'm like, I was.

[Phil Robertson]

I was about maybe seven. You were younger. You were about five.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, five or six.

[Phil Robertson]

And I was about eight or nine.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah. But, you know, that is one of the. Probably my last memories that I can go back because I just remember in.

[Phil Robertson]

That I thought there's a scene, there's a scene in the movie of it and I cry every time.

[Lisa Harper]

Oh, I cried when I saw it.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, yeah. Just because it's. It was raining and in the movie it's raining and I mean, you'll just never forget that night. It was like your moment.

[Jase Robertson]

It was a. I mean, even as a little kid, because I'm thinking, this guy's got problems, you know, a five year old, like something's wrong with him. And then it's like where you have to leave, you know, and so I remember that, but. And it does affect you. I think when I look back on it, probably I don't realize how much it affected me, you know, but I was real shy and all that. So later, all the things we've talked about before I eventually come to Christ. I forgive my dad. We've become best friends. And then I was doing what you were doing for the kind of. The first two years of my Christian life. I just. It was all like, I'm going to try to be perfect and just. But the more I studied, I was like, something's wrong with this idea. And I'm supposed to like, share Jesus, but I didn't want to talk. And so a weird bunch of circumstances happened where a friend of my dad's asked me to come speak at this little school. And so here I am. The exact thing that you went through. Well, my shake was in my hands and I'M like, why are my hands shaking? Because he's like, just. Just tell about your conversion. And every time I flipped a page in the Bible, my hands were shaking. I ripped it out.

[Lisa Harper]

Oh, my goodness.

[Jase Robertson]

There was a gasp in the crowd because I'm now desperate. It's like, you're in a heretic desecrating the Bible.

[Phil Robertson]

He's just tearing his Bible.

[Bash]

He went full Pentecostal.

[Jase Robertson]

It was the worst experience, you know, of my faith journey because I was so embarrassed. I was nervous already. And I just. After it was over, I thought, I'm never doing this again.

[Lisa Harper]

Were you able to, like, get it together and like, land the plane?

[Jase Robertson]

I mean, I felt like I wasn't. But what happened was after it was over, what. And it wasn't 25 people. I remember they. They were starting a school across the street from the church building. So it was 25 people and it was kids, and I was just barely older than they were. And one boy just kind of came up as I'm leaving and he thought, I think I want to follow Jesus. Well, that moment, really I thought, are you kidding? I mean, I thought, this can't be real.

[Phil Robertson]

You thought you had made sure 25 people would never follow Jesus. It's over.

[Jase Robertson]

These people, I just validated that they never want to believe in God. And it was kind of a special moment in my life. And it kind of took me a while to appreciate that because I still didn't want to get up after that because it was a horrifying experience. But then slowly, I. We had.

[Bash]

We.

[Jase Robertson]

Even though your story, you know, was totally different, and we kind of came to the sick of same conclusion. The way I got over my fear of speaking is I would say this one sentence, it's not about me, because I thought that was a terrible performance. And I thought, well, it wasn't about me. But it took so long to realize that. Why couldn't I just figure that out in like year two?

[Lisa Harper]

Well, it took me a long time to figure out. People really don't want to see where you got it right. They want to see basically where you landed in a pit and got pulled you out. And he's to be the hero every story. And I think even if he gives you platform the best communicators, I mean, we just don't ever rob God of the glory. You tell stories, but they have to point to who Jesus is. And yeah, I still have train wrecks. I mean, massive train wrecks. And then I'll get tickled. I'm like, oh, Well, I think that's true.

[Jase Robertson]

I mean, I think you grow in the faith. And I mean, I think back to the last event I did last weekend and the crowd was so energetic, there were people hollering and you know how usually people are scared of silence or just, I just walked out there, thought these people are crazy. And I just kind of let it happen. Just I wasn't saying anything, you know, and I thought, well, we've come a long way now that I'm thinking about it from when I'm ripping pages out of the Bible, thinking, oh, what is this going to happen?

[Phil Robertson]

But yeah, yesterday we had Brighton on Jason's daughter in law who claims to be our number one listener now. But she, she said exactly what you said. It's interesting you said it because you sit in the same chair. She said, I thought for so many years I was so selfish because I thought I was the star of my story. And she said it took me years to realize God was the star.

[Lisa Harper]

That's right.

[Phil Robertson]

And he was just living it through millions. It was just such a moment for her to realize. So what, what is, like, what is your favorite thing? Do you have like a favorite thing you like to teach? Is there a specific thing because you do this all over or do you, or do you, when you go in, do you like they give you something or do you do your own thing or how do you teach?

[Lisa Harper]

It's kind of both. And I mean, sometimes I'll get, you know, we're in a series on Acts. Can you, can you teach on Acts? Chapter eight. I'm like, ooh, I love.

[Phil Robertson]

Cause I kind of like an assignment.

[Bash]

Right?

[Lisa Harper]

Yeah, I do too. I love that. And just because I'm old as dirt, I'm 62 and I'm spent, you know, so I don't, I'm like your dad in that I have fallen more in love with Jesus the longer he's allowed me to walk with him. And one of my favorite living scholars, a mentor of mine, Dr. Craig Keener, he says if you get out of the Bible, what you expect to get out of the Bible, and you need to change your expectations because it's always bigger, it's always better.

[Phil Robertson]

That's good, that's great.

[Lisa Harper]

And you know, you'll read something. John 4, the woman at the well, and you've read it a thousand times, you've heard it a thousand times. You, you exegeted the Greek, you filled in the blanks. But then you'll see a wrinkle and you'll go, oh, I didn't know the word he was using for worship is Proskunuo, to move forward and to kiss. And she'd kissed all these frogs in her search for a prince. And Jesus used a word that would have been so pertinent to her. And you'll see something that's fresh. So I really don't. Every book I'm studying at the time becomes my favorite book. Even I didn't think I could ever. I mean, I don't want to admit this with other Christians, but I never thought I could have a great fondness for Leviticus. I'd always burn out in Leviticus when I did.

[Phil Robertson]

There's been more dead end reading the Bibles than Leviticus.

[Lisa Harper]

It's like, it's scabs and blood and all this stuff. But I mean, like last year I found this story in Leviticus that made me fall in love with Leviticus. So I, if, if I get to open this love letter called the Bible. I'm not saying I'm effective teaching anywhere, but there's. To me, there's something redemptive on every page.

[Phil Robertson]

So, Jase, this holiday season is a lot different for me because I've lost right at 80 pounds, which is almost to my goal weight. So it looks like I'm going to get there before the new year. PhD is basically a metabolic reset of your system. And so you burn fat first and you lose weight naturally. And I center on the natural part because there's no gimmicks, no starvation, there's no shots, there's no risky drugs. Here's a picture of me at the beginning. Here I am now and you can see it's quite the change. So look in the year. I know you guys, some of you out there, you've been thinking about it. It's time to get a jump start and get this thing going. I'm hiking now, doing things I never thought I'd do again at 60 years old. Lisa and I are even doing dumbbell workouts together. So it's been a good thing for my life, for my health, and for my marriage. So for December only, they're adding two free weeks to your program just to help you get started. Now, to get a jump start, mention the code two weeks and they'll waive your consultation fee and even cover the cost of your food. You can call Ph.D. weight Loss today and breeze into 2026 already working towards your goals. That's 864-644-1900 to call or you can visit myphdweightloss.com 864-644-1900 mention the code two weeks or visit myphdweightloss dot com if I can do it. So can you. Be sure and tell them you heard about it right here on the Unashamed podcast and get started today.

[Jase Robertson]

I think what you're describing is this love for the word because. And you.

[Lisa Harper]

We.

[Jase Robertson]

We taught John before in our first podcast.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, I was telling Lisa this before we came out.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, now I'm a little embarrassed because I was feeling.

[Phil Robertson]

Can we go back and delete those?

[Jase Robertson]

I'm still. And the reason me and Zach argue so much is because he's. He has a more philosophical speech and you're familiar.

[Phil Robertson]

Y' all can have a great conversation.

[Lisa Harper]

Well, we like the. Anybody who's quoting from Aquinas.

[Bash]

I know you said Schaefer too.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah, I love Schaeffer and he uses words that I've never heard. And I'm like, I'm thinking, well, the simple minded people out there, they just clicked, you know, something else. Because whatever, you know, Zach will go on a two minute thing and I'm.

[Lisa Harper]

Think, no two minutes. Mine are usually 20. That's great wisdom.

[Phil Robertson]

He knows he can't interrupting him.

[Jase Robertson]

So I just say, hey, knock it off. We got.

[Bash]

We have a broad audience and some.

[Phil Robertson]

People love what they love, some people love what they. That's what I hear all the time.

[Jase Robertson]

She brought up that Leviticus, you know, there was some random verse. I'm doing a Bible study late at night and somehow I got to Leviticus and it was a verse I was reading about how they were com. They were not complaining but saying we're sacrificing. They're telling God we're sacrificing these animals. Like we're giving this something up. And I think it's like Leviticus, Leviticus, maybe Leviticus 18. But there's a saying that he says, these are gifts from God. And I read that and I thought I found something in Leviticus that's fascinating. You're sitting here saying, look at what we're giving up. And he's like, I created those animals. I'm considering those gifts. And it's just like, wow. And I think we tend to do that. We take a book and are scared to read it.

[Lisa Harper]

Right.

[Jase Robertson]

All of a sudden you see something from his perspective that's humbling and exciting.

[Lisa Harper]

And if you recognize every single story hangs under the canopy of a good God.

[Bash]

Yeah.

[Lisa Harper]

So we may not understand, you know, the, the social historical context of the original author, original Audience. But you go, it was redemptive for them.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Lisa Harper]

When he set up the parameters in Deuteronomy. Deuteronomy around women not being able to be attacked by men in a culture where any woman over the age of 12 could be just. I mean, it was just horrible what happened. And God said, no, if you're gonna mess with one of my daughters, you marry her. Not to, you know, not to re. Injure her, but because nobody else will marry her, she's considered damaged goods. So you're gonna begin to repay what you've stolen. You give her daddy money that's not a bribe, that she can't hold property. So you're gonna make her financially independent. And so to erect this redemptive fence around women at a time when culture didn't. Well, if you begin to get context, you're like, oh, my heavens is always good. Leviticus is an invitation to relationship. They thought the gods wanted to kill him. And the God of Abraham says, no, I want you. Here's a way for you to be in relationship with me.

[Jase Robertson]

And don't you find that when you read that, and then you get to the Book of John and start seeing how Jesus interacted with. With women, you just start listing.

[Lisa Harper]

Yes.

[Jase Robertson]

All of a sudden, I mean, you're doing one of these.

[Lisa Harper]

I do.

[Jase Robertson]

Where people will read Ephesians 5, and it's like, wives meant to your husband. And they're just like, oh, God, you know, he hates women.

[Lisa Harper]

He's dominion.

[Jase Robertson]

I'm like, if you read this thing, and if you were a woman, you would run outside.

[Phil Robertson]

Even divorce. Divorce was originally set in to protect women.

[Lisa Harper]

That's right.

[Phil Robertson]

Because they were being put away and had no way to defend themselves.

[Lisa Harper]

They marry these pagans and hotties, kick their old Jewish wives to the curb. And he was like, no, there's got to be a way for them to be provided.

[Phil Robertson]

Exactly.

[Lisa Harper]

I always think with Malachi, or Malachi, if you have Italian in your background, you know, it's.

[Phil Robertson]

It's sounds like a local.

[Lisa Harper]

Gotten that so out of context that God hates divorced people. I'm like, no, no. God hates divorce because of what it does to his people. Loves his people. But it's changed things for me because the. The performer in me wanted to get it right. And when you go, oh, yeah, if you'll think of the imperative of scripture where God says, this is what I want you to do, I now, this is so simplistic, but I can hang on simple stuff. And I'll misquote the dead guys When I first brought my daughter home from Haiti, you know, we just did all kinds of things I'd never done before. I've never been a big bowler. Then I found out they're single guys at the bowling. Took Missy bowling, and, you know, I never seen those velvet bumpers. And so I got the little velvet bumper so she wouldn't roll her ball in the gutter. And I was trying to explain the law to her. And we had a language deficit when I first brought her home from Haiti, so even language was hard. And I said, baby, do you remember those bumpers at bowling alley? And she's like, oui, Mama Blah. She called me white mama at the beginning, Wee mama blah. And I said, remember how that kept your ball from going in the gutter? And she's like, yes, ma'.

[Phil Robertson]

Am.

[Lisa Harper]

And I said, well, that's when God gives us the law. It's not God given us the law. He's not going to beat us over the head with the Bible. It's velvet bumpers. It's so that we'll keep walking the way he's prescribed for us. And it's for our good. And so. But I'm always reteaching myself because I apart from holy Spirit, I go to a critical spirit, and it's old shame patterns. So I feel like I was just telling you before we came on, I've had to unlearn.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Lisa Harper]

I think more than I've learned last 15 or 20 years, we would all agree.

[Phil Robertson]

So you got to tell us more about your daughter. Can you tell us more about. Cuz, like, I'm intrigued now because I've been. I went to Haiti after the earthquake.

[Lisa Harper]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

In 2009.

[Lisa Harper]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

And we were there for about a month and just trying to help and do what we could do. But I've loved the folks from there ever since, just because of the hearts I saw.

[Lisa Harper]

Patience are amazing.

[Phil Robertson]

Oh, they're amazing. So how did this.

[Bash]

Port au Prince and Cap Asian.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, we went to both of those.

[Lisa Harper]

Missy's friends from her little villages. If you know Haiti, it's kind of down here. I had. I'd gone to a women's conference, and, you know, y' all don't do any yalls conferences, but we have breakout sessions.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, we don't like that. That's way too hard to hunt and fish and eat.

[Lisa Harper]

And we have to go take more notes with somebody with a quilted Bible cover. But I'd gone to a breakout session, and it was on missions, so I thought it was going to be in short term missions that I love. And this itty bitty blonde girl gets up and she quotes from James and says, if you're Christ followers incumbent upon us, take care of widows and orphans. And then you usually just like when you see money in the Bible and you go, or time and tithing. And I'm like, no, Jesus was actually talking about money there. And she kind of pulled one of those. And she said, there's 140 million orphans in the world as we know it today. And she said, the scripture's really clear. What are you doing about it? And I'm sitting in this, you know, beautiful church. We've all got, you know, crop pants and got all our stuff together. And I thought, oh, snap. And I thought, what am I doing about this? And I thought, well, I'm in my mid-40s. I'm, you know, really committed to the word of God. I'm not sure as a single woman I'm even allowed. I don't know what the theology is.

[Phil Robertson]

Around that, but where's the book chapter?

[Lisa Harper]

I mean, what if I offend people, which is I tend to be an equal opportunity offender, but I just really begin to pray. I'm just not that smart about direct application. So you know how God will convict you. But I go, I need some. I need community to help me know how to walk this out practically. And so I asked some girls in a small group that I was in at church. I said, I don't know what I'm supposed to do, but I feel like God has really prompted me over the issue of orphans. So I don't know if I'm supposed to go to Haiti or if I'm supposed to give more of my offering money. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do, but I know it's something. And three of them basically said, we've got your back. We'll pray with you. And another one said, when you have time later on this week, I'd love to process this with you further. She's from church, you know, I was like, sure. So we met for coffee, and after a little small talk, she quoted a verse. It's always crazy to me how people can take one verse out of the Bible and take it so far out of context. And she said, the Bible says that the wounds of the friend are better than the kiss of an enemy. So I want to be a friend to you. She said, I don't know if you're even thinking about adoption, but you've told us in small group about how There was abuse in your backstory. She said, so I think you've sabotaged your shot at parenthood. So she said, I don't think you should have died adopt a child, but I know you want to nurture something. So my encouragement would be for you to go to the Nashville Humane Society and adopt a dog because you're really good with pets. And y', all, I just remember going and I printed out an adoption application, but I already thought I wasn't good enough. You know, being single and I already thought it's just there's this Holy spirit was saying, well, there's a lot of kids that will never have a mom and a dad.

[Jase Robertson]

You're in a country, you're seeing the.

[Lisa Harper]

Condition those kids, it's better. But I was so I just didn't have the wisdom to go, this woman's a crooked little tree.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah.

[Lisa Harper]

And she's not bearing good fruit. And I need to be respectful, but I don't need to heed what's falling out of her mouth because God doesn't use shame as a motivational tool.

[Bash]

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[Lisa Harper]

And so I took the adoption application, put it in the back of my file drawer, and for seven years I didn't do anything. And in his mercy, seven years later, he brought it back around.

[Jase Robertson]

Come on.

[Lisa Harper]

And I lost two adoptions. One at the 11th hour. That just broke my heart. I was got written into a story of a precious little girl who was a crack addict and had gotten pregnant, spent Christmas that year in a crack house, and I was bringing that baby home, and it just fell apart at the 11th hour. And right after I lost that, two weeks after I lost that baby, I got a phone call from a friend that I hadn't seen in years. And she had heard through the Nashville grapevine that I'd lost this baby at the 11th hour. And she said, lisa, I don't even know if you have the bandwidth to pray about this, but I just got home from Haiti, and she was not on an adoption trip. She was there trying to help build a commercial kitchen to feed the kids in this village. But she said while I was there, one of the young mamas died of AIDS and left behind this baby girl, and she's really, really sick. And she said, I was in the hospital when the doctor came out and there's nobody in that family to care for this little girl. And she said while I was sitting there, and the doctor said, do y' all know anybody in a first world country? Because this child's going to need some pretty serious medical intervention who'd be willing to step into this story? Because she may not ever make it out of Haiti. And she's not even in a. And this friend of mine, I'm not trying to be silly, but this particular friend of mine is in a very. A church where you sit on your hands. She's not giving us signs and wonders, and I'm kind of Baptista. She's not quite as wiggly as I am, but she said as I was sitting there. And again, she was just there for three days. She was with the people who drove the woman to the hospital. She said, the Lord, just as. As clear as a bell in that ER room in Port au Prince, said, lisa Harper's supposed to be that little girl's mama. And she said, lisa, I'm not trying to strong arm you, but I would be disobedient if I didn't tell you what had happened. And are you willing to pray about this? And I said, nope. I said, I've been praying about this for 30 years. And I said, sign me up. And y', all, I got off the phone and I said a word that's not in the Bible because I was just hit by that. Oh, golly, Jesus, what have you done? Yeah, this is way beyond my capacity. I mean, I don't know how to do this, and my heart is already, you know, just ground up hamburger or venison. I don't know how to step in this little girl story, but I think because I had been so crushed in that second adoption loss. It's like. It's crazy how God used that, what I would have thought is pain to really prepare me to go. I know what loss feels like now, and that baby deserves somebody to be advocating for, even if I never get to be a real mama. And so Missy's 16 now, healthy as a horse. She's not my hope. Jesus is my hope. She is tangible grace. I mean, tangible grace. I look in her face, we got it backwards. I don't have a baby daddy yet. So if y' all know somebody who hunts, is employed, that would be fabulous. Who loves Jesus?

[Phil Robertson]

You need to be a bowler.

[Lisa Harper]

You know, my daddy was a hunter, so I like all the camo. But getting to be her mom when I didn't deserve it, her second mama. I've learned so much more about the gospel in that, you know, you see adoption through here, and I get it bigger because of how much I don't deserve is in my story. And. And I don't have to sit at the kiddie table. Uni brought me to the. To the banqueting table and gave me more than I could ever deserve.

[Jase Robertson]

That's good. There was so many verses popping in my head, though, about that true religion that God's fine, faultless is doing good to widows and orphans. It's just such a strange passage, but it's right after every good and perfect gift comes from above.

[Lisa Harper]

That's right. That's right.

[Jase Robertson]

I'm like, you saw a situation, had the heart of Jesus, and I think this is what he does.

[Phil Robertson]

I was thinking about the competition of the two words you got, you know, one not from the Holy Spirit and one from.

[Bash]

And the one that came from the Holy Spirit came from somebody who. At a church where she sat on her hands. But I. I've. I've. We adopted. And our story is kind of crazy, too. And I will tell you that.

[Jase Robertson]

What.

[Bash]

What I saw God do, like, supernatural thing that you're just like, I mean it. That I think he shows up in ways when you step into the. Into that type of deal, and then you look back on it and you're like, you know, we. Because our. Our story is very similar in a lot of ways. And that's why I kind of teared. I was trying to hold it.

[Jase Robertson]

Well, I teared up because I have my own version of this. Which made me think, though, when you're talking about kind of, you know, where are the scriptures for this and all. But you're. You've been adopted by God. I mean, your story shows that more than any story I've ever heard in my life. But we're all adopted. I mean, we're all. We look back out for a couple years. We were just, yeah, yeah. Is this the way we're going to live our life?

[Phil Robertson]

Exactly.

[Jase Robertson]

And the opposite of what should be happening is happening. We're getting kicked out, you know, and all these things. And so are you. Are you ready to tell your story now? I was.

[Bash]

I don't have enough time to tell the story.

[Phil Robertson]

We're out of time.

[Jase Robertson]

I was just gonna say this. I mean, here we are extremely busy, you know, and we have, you know, this little guy referred to as little man on the church, you know, in the podcast. But, but. And it was literally, you get a call. A woman who my wife had known earlier had basically signed over this baby from prison to us. Of course we're looking at each other like, well, you know, I was kind of going through that process with you. Well, I'm not sure I'm signed up for this. What are we going to do? And long story short, you know, it's that same spirit led passion that you had. It's like, yeah, we're doing this.

[Phil Robertson]

And you know, the power of it, Lisa, is that the first word was so wrong. Because of you being that five year old girl at that pew and embracing and knowing the adoptive power of the Almighty, you were the perfect one to adopt that little girl. And now that's why you're seeing the fruit.

[Bash]

And the way that I always say this all the time when I talk about Ruth, I may have gone into it thinking I'm trying to fulfill that James passage and almost kind of like a little bit like, okay, I'm doing my part.

[Jase Robertson]

But then you do it and then.

[Bash]

You realize that they're the blessing to.

[Lisa Harper]

You a thousand percent.

[Bash]

You're like, you're not.

[Lisa Harper]

And you know what's crazy missing? She didn't have an orphan spirit. She had a great aunt. I mean, she was poor. All the kids in her village were poor. She was sick. All the kids in your village were sick. It wasn't until she had to go to an orphanage that her story really was horrible. Missy does not have an orphan spirit. Yeah, I had an orphan. I think even people look to y' all from all over the world for family.

[Phil Robertson]

That's right.

[Lisa Harper]

How crazy that you knew what it was to feel like orphans.

[Phil Robertson]

Exactly, exactly.

[Lisa Harper]

And so to me, it all goes.

[Jase Robertson]

Back to the gospel, everything you're saying. I mean, we have a girl from Nicaragua doesn't have an orphan spirit. She's part of our family now. It.

[Bash]

It just.

[Jase Robertson]

It's very powerful. We never got to John 17, but we can.

[Lisa Harper]

I can't believe I messed y' all up. I love Johnson.

[Phil Robertson]

So we're going to get there next time. But I was going to get an invite back.

[Jase Robertson]

I'm just going to go ahead and say this.

[Bash]

Heartbeat.

[Lisa Harper]

I will not be coy.

[Phil Robertson]

Jay. You have pulled that. We know who is the most powerful for of person here the table. Cuz you came into the most testosterone laden podcast on the Internet and we all cried today.

[Jase Robertson]

Made us all cry.

[Phil Robertson]

Which I've only done so you win. What a story. What a blessing. He's a good.

[Lisa Harper]

He's such a kind God. So holy.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Lisa Harper]

But so compassionate.

[Jase Robertson]

Yeah.

[Phil Robertson]

It's so good. Thank you so much, Lisa. I could not think of a better way to wrap up Nashville. Right?

[Bash]

I knew this was gonna go.

[Phil Robertson]

Yeah, you did. He said you.

[Jase Robertson]

Good job, Zach.

[Phil Robertson]

Can we do it again Sometime in a heartbeat.

[Lisa Harper]

Yes, sir.

[Phil Robertson]

Thank you, Lisa. Thanks for listening to the unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast and don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.