Ep 1234 | Jase’s Road-Trip Breakdown Begins With Just One Innocent Question

Summary

Unashamed with the Robertson Family

Episode 1234 | Jase’s Road-Trip Breakdown Begins With Just One Innocent Question
Date: December 22, 2025
Hosts: Al and Jase Robertson (with mentions of Zach and “Nurse Man”)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jase recounts how a simple question during a road trip sparked a deep, winding Bible study on participating in the divine nature, the meaning and history of anointing, and the connection between illness, prayer, and the Holy Spirit in the Christian life. The conversation moves skillfully from stories of faith, family traditions, and personal anecdotes to scripture, tying together Old and New Testament threads and landing on practical applications for modern believers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Illness, Prayer, and Anointing—James 5 as a Starting Point

• [01:02] Jase opens by reflecting on Zach’s illness and refers to James 5:13-15, where those who are sick are urged to call the elders to pray and anoint them with oil.
  • “Is any of you sick? ... He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.”
• The discussion launches into whether there’s a sin connection (“Maybe there's some sin going on that old Zachary needs to come clean on”—Al, [02:41]), which is treated in a light, joking manner.

2. A Road-Trip Bible Study on Participating in the Divine Nature

• [03:36] Jase shares about a memorable eight-hour Bible study during a Kansas trip, which started from a friend’s (the “Nurse Man”) question on 2 Peter 1:4:
  • “So that through them you may participate in the divine nature.”
• Jase compares giving a three-hour answer to the friend’s original one-minute response.
• The group reflects on the challenges (and rewards) of answering deep, spontaneous questions about faith.

3. Scripture Deep Dive – Linking John and 1st John

• [08:01] The main question: What does “participating in the divine nature” mean?
  Jase connects the theme back to John 17 and then to 1 John, which deals with the Holy Spirit and the challenges of false teaching (Gnosticism).
• [13:19] Jase emphasizes how John’s gospel presents the Holy Spirit’s indwelling as central to understanding divine participation.
• [16:39] He recalls Jesus’ post-resurrection “peace” greetings in John 20 and how this threads together with the epistle’s language about anointing and truth.

4. Historical and Theological Overview of Anointing

• [19:55] Jase embarks on a mini-lecture about anointing, referencing The Bible Project series and drawing lines from Old Testament rituals to Jesus as the Anointed One (Messiah).
  • Anointing in the Old Testament marked priests (presence of God), kings (power of God), prophets (purpose of God).
• Jase explains:
  • “When you see Jesus Christ, that’s not his name… that's a title. That means 'the anointed one.'” ([19:55])
  • Anointing’s symbolism: from people, to places (Jacob anointing rocks at Bethel, the tabernacle), representing points where heaven and earth meet.

5. Jesus’ Anointing, Baptism, and the Spirit

• [28:05] Jase and Al discuss how, rather than oil, Jesus was anointed with the Spirit at baptism, echoing the Old Testament acts but fulfilling their meaning.
  • “Well, Jesus was never anointed with oil... Well, he went to his baptism… and now the Spirit comes on him and in him to do this kind of ministry, which is a preview… of what’s going to happen to us...” (Jase, [28:05])

6. Practical Application: Anointing, Healing, and the Church

• [33:06] Al describes how their church practices anointing with oil and prayer even today:
  • “If someone requests to be anointed with oil and to have prayer of our leadership of our church, we do it… we’ve seen amazing things happen as a result.”

7. Deep Symbolism and the Process of Anointing

• [45:46] Jase unpacks Old Testament symbolism:
  • Anointing oil was a mix of extracts from bitter or tough plants (“these were like extractions from them once they were crushed”), symbolizing the process of suffering, preparation, and eventual joy.
  • This foreshadows Jesus as the ultimate “crushed” one—suffering as part of redemption, echoed in believers’ trials.

8. The Power of Forgiveness — The New Covenant’s Anointed Community

• [48:55] Discussion on the New Testament motif—believers as God's "portal" between heaven and earth, empowered to forgive and bring peace.
  • Notable quote:
    • “You are representing God himself and you’re qualified. You have the Holy Spirit.” (Jase, [49:28])

9. Personal Stories & Testimonies—The Living Reality of Anointing

• [40:05] Al recounts physically anointing his home and writing scriptures on the studs during construction, emphasizing that sacred spaces and actions still have resonance and power.
• [41:25] Testimony of ministry and transformation in that home—a “place God lives in.”

10. Forgiveness, Healing, and Participating in the Divine

• [52:03] Al draws on the contrast between David's Psalms before and after his fall to illustrate the ongoing human need for spiritual renewal and the multi-faceted role of anointing (as healing, restoration, setting apart, and empowering).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I don’t know if I’ve ever had an eight-hour Bible study on the road… but it actually made the time pass.” – Jase, [03:36]
• “Questions are the way to go, to dig deep. I mean, Jesus was the master of it, right?” – Al, [10:55]
• “God, through Jesus and the pouring out of the Holy Spirit, has invited us in to participate in the divine nature and experience this love that they had before the beginning of time.” – Jase, [17:53]
• “When you see Jesus Christ, that's not his name… that means 'the anointed one.' That’s a title.” – Jase, [19:55]
• “If someone requests to be anointed with oil and to have prayer… we do it. We’ve seen amazing things happen as a result.” – Al, [33:06]
• “You are representing God Himself and you’re qualified. You have the Holy Spirit.” – Jase, [49:28]
• “Once you see this [thread of anointing in Scripture], you’ll never unsee it.” – Jase, [53:26]
• Closing Prayer for Zach, Kim, and Al:
  “We are blessed to… talk about Your word and the power of it. … It’s very inspirational to think that Your Spirit lives in us, which then allows us to participate in Your nature…” – Al, [55:09]

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Important Timestamps

• [01:02] James 5, illness, and prayer for Zach
• [03:36] The eight-hour road-trip Bible study begins
• [08:01] What does it mean to “participate in the divine nature”?
• [16:39] John 14-17 and the promise of the Spirit
• [19:55] Historic and biblical context of anointing
• [28:05] Jesus’ anointing, the baptism and the Spirit
• [33:06] Modern practice of anointing in church
• [40:05] Al’s story of anointing his home
• [45:46] Symbolism of anointing oil and personal suffering
• [48:55] The role of forgiveness: representing God on earth
• [52:03] David’s Psalms, renewal, and the ongoing human struggle
• [55:09] Concluding prayer and wrap-up

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a rich, layered study on the spiritual depth behind what might at first seem like minor biblical details—anointing, oil, the act of praying for the sick. Through personal stories, careful scripture reading, and theological reflection, the Robertsons invite listeners to see themselves as participants in God’s ongoing story, empowered by the Holy Spirit to bridge heaven and earth in practical, meaningful ways.

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If you’re looking to deepen your understanding of biblical anointing, the Holy Spirit’s role, and the practical outworking of faith in everyday life, this episode is especially powerful and accessible.

Transcript

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[Jay]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Al]

Welcome back to Unashamed. I'm down here at the Southern Lair. Jase is there in the studio, and Zach is still sick. We're not sure what's going on with him.

[Jay]

He is, but I have a get well thought for Zach, and it's actually a Bible study that goes in with where we're at in John 20, and it was kind of due to events outside my control. I've had two Bible studies this week, but they were kind of on the same theme line, and it applies to Zach's condition because at this point, since Zach is down for multiple podcasts due to illness. There's an obscure verse in the book of James. Don't know where that is off the top of my head. I know it's in the last chapter where. And look, it's. It's kind of a. It's kind of a lightning rod for a particular face. But Zach may be. He may need to read this. So this is James 5, and it says, you know, if any of you is in Trouble. This is 1313. Yeah. He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise. Is any of you sick? This is verse 14. He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well. The Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Boy, there's a lot of. There's a lot of goodies that go along with that.

[Al]

Maybe. Maybe there's some sin going on that old Zachary needs to come clean on. I hadn't even thought about that.

[Jay]

No, we're kidding on that. It is an obscure verse that this. This custom of anointing oil. So I got asked about this in the Bible study. A couple of them I had. The first one was about participation in the divine nature. So one of the Guys I went to Kansas with, he was teaching a class and he, he said, I got a question for you. Because interesting enough, the last time I went with to Kansas, I took the same fellow. It was the first time he had ever gone. We call him the nurse man. But Al, we went to Kansas and it was the first time that I had an eight hour Bible study with a human being. The whole.

[Al]

Because you're on the, you're on the road, right? So what else you gonna do?

[Jay]

We got in the vehicle, he asked me a biblical question. And eight hours later, the only pause is, the only intermissions is when we had to stop and get gas or whatever. Then we got back in the truck and it was right back to the Bible study. I was like, I don't know if I've ever had an eight hour Bible study on the road. But it actually made the time pass.

[Al]

And he's a he, nurse man is, he's a real sharp guy and a leader in his church.

[Jay]

So he asked me this time because I think he was going off the last time we got in a vehicle together it was eight hours. So he's like, well, I'm ready to crank it up again. I have a question. And he brought up Second Peter one, where it says, his divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises. So here's where the question came up, this next phrase, so that through them the promises that God has given us, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature. And so what happened was he was teaching a class at his church and somebody, you know, they as, as I do when I sometimes teach classes, I'll say, does anybody have any questions? Which is a dangerous, dangerous thing to do because what if someone asks you a question that you're like, huh? So someone basically asked, what does it mean, the word may? You may participate in the divine nature. And so he said, I gave an answer, but he was like, look, I'm a medical professional. I spend my, I have a job, you know, I'm teaching this. I studied the Bible, but I wasn't ready for a theological question about what does that mean. So he's like, I would like for you to share what that means. And then I can. Then I won't tell you what I said, but I just want to compare what you're fixing to say off the top of your head to what I.

[Al]

Said off the Top of his head. Yeah.

[Jay]

So look, now here's the difference. He, he has answered a question in, in a minute. And my answer took three hours. I'm not sh.

[Al]

I'm not shocked.

[Jay]

Oh, Jay Stone was driving. He's like, well, never seen a question asked that took three hours to explain.

[Al]

You realize your answer, Jay, took as long as Gilligan's Island's whole show set up a three hour tour.

[Jay]

So after I got finished, I said, well, what about your answer? And he said, I missed it and I'm going to teach this Sunday and clarify and amend my answer. He's like, he may have the longest.

[Al]

Bible class in the history of Sunday schools this week.

[Jay]

And look, I want for clarification, who am I? I'm not a scholar.

[Al]

But before you continue, Jason, let me give a quick shout out to our good friends at frc. They're, they're people of truth, like we are Family Research Council. They're based up in Washington D.C. and you know, we know there's a lot of division going on and this actually discussion shows a lot of what it's about. People who have the spirit of God understand truth and how that shapes your life, but people that don't, they don't get it. And yet we're still trying to create a country that we can live in that's not so divided and so violent. So our good friends at Family Research Council stand firm. They defend faith, family and freedom on the front lines right there in D.C. but they can't do it alone. They need us to go shoulder to shoulder to be able to set this up for generations to come. So I want you to check them out. Give [e-mail] unashamed.

[Jay]

He was just saying I should have, I should have dug a little deeper into that. But I think it is a good question and it kind of ties in, believe it or not.

[Al]

Tell me the verse again because I missed it when you said 2 Peter.

[Jay]

1 in verse 4. What does it mean to participate in the divine nature? And so I think that's a good question. And I'll tell you where I went because I'm studying in the Book of John. Obviously for the past few months we've been doing this and I went to John 17, but I want to tie this into another Bible study. So when I get back from Kansas, that was on the way to Kansas, the guy who I was with in Kansas, duck hunting. When we got there, we basically, he said, how was the trip? And I said, well, we spent three hours talking about participating in the divine nature. And so, well then that triggered questions from him. Well, what exactly? What is the answer to that? That's a good question.

[Al]

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[Jay]

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[Jay]

And so we had a cameraman there who then got caught up in the discussion and he started asking questions. And this is what happens, I think, when you talk about things in the Bible in a public way. Because let's face it, human beings are searching for the answers to these questions.

[Al]

And Jase, it also, it also highlights something you noticed that I had not never noticed until we did the John study this time is how many questions Jesus asked. So it shows you that questions are the way to go, to dig deep. I mean, Jesus was the master of it, right?

[Jay]

So this fellow that we're hunting with in Kansas, one of my best friends, he asked me a question. When we got back, he just sent a text. It was at like 5:30 in the morning. He was like, are you rolling? Which means because he thought it was duck Season down here, but we're doing the split. But I happened to be up and believe it or not, I was studying my Bible and I was like, oh, yeah, I'm rolling. What you got? So he called me and he's like, Look, I'm studying First John 2 today. I have a question. What is this anointing about? And so I. Now, I had not studied that, but since we're going to the book of First John, that's where we're headed. And I was familiar with the text, but I haven't done a deep dive. And so basically we did it together, which was a couple of hours we spent having long Bible studies about this. And that is in First John 2 when it brings up the idea of the Antichrist. And then it says in verse 30. And look, just to give you the background here, there were some false teachers that were infiltrating people who were following Jesus. And he's kind of given an argument for. For how you can identify these false teachers or Antichrists. And he actually brings that up again in 1 John 4. And look, I know I'm going through this fast, but we're fixing to study in the new year, the book of 1 John. So this will be a good teaser for you.

[Al]

And Jase is right, we'll get into this. But the whole backdrop of what John was dealing with in these three letters was this idea that had risen up now because a lot of time his past and Jews was here, that he really wasn't a human being. Like he had no earthly qualities. That was this false teaching that kept coming. It's called Gnosticism, which we'll get into it.

[Jay]

But yeah, well, I'm glad you said that. I'll go and read the first John 4:3 since you brought that up and you kind of clarified it. But first John 4:3, 4:2, before I read the first John 2 and you'll see how all this is going to come together. First John 4:2 says, this is how you can recognize the Spirit of God. Now just think about. He spent three chapters, which is what I told my friend from Kansas. I was like, before we get into whatever this anointing is, you got to realize this is the same John that we have 21 chapters of about the life of Jesus. And within those 21 chapters, he devoted three chapters to promising the Holy Spirit that would be in you forever, the spirit of truth. That's John 14 in a verse. What is that, about 6, 10 somewhere in there? And so now fast forward to one John with that as the backdrop. So I said, whatever this anointing means, and we know that it has something to do with the Holy Spirit at this stage. I said, I recommend that before we have this discussion, you need to read John 14, 15, and 16, the whole chapters, because that's what it's about. He's promising this counselor, this comforter, the spirit of truth. So when First John 4:2, it says, this is how you can recognize the Spirit of God. Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the Antichrist which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. And so they were having a problem with this. People were saying, oh, no, Jesus, a human can't be God. And John rightfully ties it in with having the spirit, which. John 14:26 is a very good verse to connect all these dots before I read First John 2, because I'll read it first. And this is something me and my buddy actually came up with as we were studying. John 14:26 says, I'll read 25 and 26. All this I have spoken while still with you. But the counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have said to you. And by the way, the next verse says, peace, I leave with you, My peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. And the reason I'm reading that, because now we're in John 20 and twice, Jesus as a resurrected human, brings up peace. He's like Pete. When he enters the room, though the doors were locked, what does he say? Peace.

[Al]

Peace.

[Jay]

Yeah, yeah. And then Thomas comes up. So to get Back to the first John 2 and the question that was asked, and what this has to do with the anointing of oil for Zach. All this is going to come together here. First John 2:20 says, but you have an anointing from the Holy One. And all of. All of you know the truth. I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie comes from the truth. Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man as the Antichrist, he denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father, whoever acknowledged the Son has the Father. So that's kind of what we were talking about. But then he goes on to say, where does he bring up the anointing? Yeah, verse 26, I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you receive from him remains in you and you do not need anyone to teach you. That's why I read the John 14:26. But as his anointing teaches you about all things, and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit, just as it has taught, you remain in him. And then he gets into us being the children of God and being unashamed, which is the name of our podcast that's in verse 28. It says Dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears, we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming.

[Al]

And he also repeats the themes that he had strong in the book of John. I'm thinking John 13 and some other texts about how you know each other by yourself, love for each other, and those are the things you see the fruit of the spirit come out. And Jesus talked a lot about it and then he, you know, John's going to revisit that as well.

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[Jay]

So there's, there's this idea of family being introduced and you say, well, what is, what, what does that have to do with the anointing? You know, putting oil on someone when you pray? And the reason I wanted to discuss these three passages as one is because when you look at that English word anointing in First John 2 and look it up, well, it means the same idea of this Anointing, smearing someone with oil, and it's called the anointing one. So, but what you gotta realize is when you see Jesus Christ, that's not his name. As far as the Christ part, that means the anointed one, that's a title. Now in the Hebrew scriptures, the Old Testament, that word is Messiah, which means the anointed one. So here you have this title with Jesus and his promise of anointing us with his spirit. In John 14, John 15, John 16, you say, what does that got to do with participating in the divine nature? So what I told my friend, I was like, and in answer of the question of participating in the divine nature, when you read Jesus prayer, which we did when we went through John earlier, and he brings up this idea of, I'm going to have my glory, the glory that I had in your presence before the world began, that's John 17, four. And then he gets to the back end of this prayer and talks about our anointing. After he's talked about the Holy Spirit being poured out and being in you in John 14, 15 and 16, he then says verse 24 of John 17 in his prayer. And I know we've gone through this, but just to remind you, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you love me before the creation of the world. Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you and they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them, and you will continue to make you known, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them. So there's your short answer for what does it mean to participate in the divine nature? God, through Jesus and the pouring out of the Holy Spirit, has invited us in to participate in the divine nature and experience this love that they had before the beginning of time. Which is why my buddy said, I think I missed that because whatever the answer was, he never did tell me. He was like, I didn't go that deep and that personal in what we're a part of here. And so. But what it made me do is do a deep dive on this anointing and look at the history of that. And I found a good resource for this. And I'm going to apologize right off the bat. This thing I listened to was done by the Bible Project, Tim Mackey and those guys. And it was a six part series on the Anointing what we're talking about here. And it basically went through the Hebrew history of what that meant and the people that were anointed, the places that were anointed, and how this transitioned into Jesus being called the anointed one. And then fast forward to us, people who surrender to Jesus, being anointed through the Spirit. And so I didn't listen to every detail of it, but I kind of skimmed through the six hours of it and then just launched into my own Bible study on it. So I kind of wanted to bring that up in light of what I read, because when you think, well, there's one obscure passage here talking about taking oil, which is what they did, there was actually a recipe for it in Exodus for when you anoint oil. But when you look at the people who were anointed with oil and why this was. So it was specially commissioned people, like one person for the good of the many, which is basically what Jesus did as the anointed Christ, the Son of God in human form. And so you can go through all those rabbit holes, but what you'll find is it was either a priest, a king, or a prophet, which Jesus would represent.

[Sponsor/Guest Speaker]

All three?

[Jay]

Yeah, all three. So when you look at the anointing with oil, it would be one of those three. And you say, well, what. And I wrote this down on kind of what the reason those three were anointed, for their special project from God. So when you think priests, they were all about representing the presence of God, kings, the power of God, and the prophets being the purpose of God, which is to declare his word. The point I want to make, though, is when I said the places were anointed. And I found this really interesting, and I wanted to bring this all the way around to prayer. In Genesis 28, you remember in John, where was that? With Nathanael? Chapter one, the end. Or was that Chapter two?

[Al]

It was chapter one. At the end of chapter one. It's funny because I was doing a dive back in, because Nathaniel's going to pop up again in John 21. So I thought, oh, there's old Nathaniel. I hadn't seen him since John. Yeah, he said 40, 43.

[Jay]

Yeah. So here's the fascinating thing about this, Al. I didn't really. I guess I read over this when I read, you know, the Jacob ladder story in Genesis 28, and remember, he had this dream, and there's this stairway to heaven, and, well, he takes.

[Sponsor/Guest Speaker]

This.

[Jay]

Rock, calls it house of God, and anoints the rocks with oil. And you're like, why is he doing that? Well, what I found fascinating through all this and the other place that's anointed is the tabernacle. And so now we're having the presence of God. Well, what are those two stories? The only two that I could find where an actual, actual place was anointed with oil. Well, you see what they represent, it's where heaven and earth come together. And when you tie that in to the prophets, priests, and there's only one prophet that was anointed, there's multiple of the kings. Think Saul and David. And actually in the Bible project, they made a point that at the same time you had these two kings, Saul and David being anointed and all the conflict there. And he kind of made a picture of this anti anointing versus the true anointing, because Saul didn't do so well, and then David obviously did better.

[Al]

Well, Saul wasn't God's choice. David was. And even the way he was anointed, I mean, they didn't even call him in out of the fields and that, like Samuel goes, well, he goes through the whole line. It's like, was there anybody else? And they're like, well, we got the little shepherd out there and so we'll bring him in. And so that's what happened.

[Jay]

Yeah, well, and. And the Bible project made a pretty good point about that, because when you fast forward that here comes Jesus in the line of David and they're like, well, Jesus was never anointed with oil. Well, you think, well, how was he anointed to. To declare for this one to now represent heaven and for the good of the many? Well, he went to the Baptist, his baptism, which was kind of a private thing because. Because in all these cases of this anointing with oil with the prophet priests and kings, you. You then have the Holy Spirit all of a sudden coming and being poured out. Own them in these instances, like, this is from God. And so when Jesus was baptized and now you have this anointing, kind of like in a verb form, because God the Father declares who he is. This is my son whom I love. I'm well pleased. And now the Spirit comes on him and in him to do this kind of ministry, which is a preview, I think, of what's going to happen to us going through kind of this water spirit idea, which I didn't realize. I think they did a good job in the recipe of the oil that's being poured out. In Exodus. It all traces its roots back to the Garden of Eden where you have water, you know, giving Life to the land. Remember, it came from the deep and it's watering all the crops. And then you have the spirit of God enabling. And all these oils from these plants are representative of life. And I just thought it was absolutely fascinating as I went through this as it was tied to the spirit, which is why I wanted to talk about it.

[Al]

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[Jay]

That was kind of the gist of it. But when you Fast forward to First John 2 and you say what's this anointing about? And God given us his spirit, we become this same kind of portal, this bridge to heaven and earth as a reality now. And so I even in the John James 5, where you're literally using the earthly symbolic of the oil, which is what it was even in the Old Testament, it was a symbolic of something greater that heaven's going to work through these earthly men in ways of God. And but you're still looking at it in prayer as that portal being open. And so I told the story when we had Missy on, when we kind of did a little Christmas episode of, you know, here's this guy bumps into Uncle Sa, of all people. And he's like, will you pray for me? Because you know, he has, he has cancer and all of a sudden he's healed. And he attributes it to that, that prayer. But for a believer in that Si has the Holy Spirit of God and he's praying on behalf. And this is the kind of things that happen. I mean, the portal is open to heaven, to believers who are in Jesus.

[Al]

Which by the way, Jay, we still at our church at WFR and we've been doing this as long as I've worked there, which is now over 30 years as a leader, we practice this passage. And the main reason we did it, I remember because I was. Back then, I was just preaching, I wasn't an elder. But someone asked us, they were like, do you guys do this? Do you know what, though? And everybody kind of looked at each other and nobody had. And we're like, why wouldn't we. Because we're, we're spirit filled men who pray for people. Why wouldn't we anoint? And so if someone requests to be anointed with oil and to have prayer of our leadership of our church, we do it. Whether it's publicly, privately, whatever. We just did it like a week ago with a woman who's having some real severe back pain and she was like, I want to be anointed with oil because I'm asking for healing and I believe this verse. So just, just as a practical measure, we've been doing our church for many, many years and seen amazing things happen as a result.

[Jay]

Yeah, well, I just thought it was an interesting study about participating in the divine nature. And when you think about prayer and this access that we have to God and representing heaven on earth and with the history of what the anointing of oil was, and I recommend going through that study, it'll really make you think. But I, I feel like, man, I had kind of missed that. It's, it's a rabbit hole. I had never gone, gone down and, and I never really combined it with the first creation and this liquid becoming life through the Spirit. And now we have the new creation, Jesus being raised from the dead. He pours out his spirit. It just changed the way I read John 20 after, you know, when you think John 14:16, the Holy Spirit, he's promising. And then in 17 he has this prayer about this participating in the divine nature and heaven and earth coming together. And then in John 20 there's this purpose aspect of he's choosing each individual and these profound things are being said that's different than what they. That he was referring to him. Like, and we talked about this before, like he was just calling his followers disciples, and how else would he friends?

[Al]

Servants.

[Jay]

Servants. Friends. And now all of a sudden, he tells Mary Magdalene, who just crops up here in the Book of John after she hadn't been mentioned in the whole book. And he's like, go tell my brothers that I've been raised.

[Al]

I'm returning to my father and your father. To my God. And your God.

[Jay]

Yeah, it's the children of God that he's speaking of in First John 3. And look, and the other thing that's different, because this all resonates when you go Back to John 1. In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God. He's going back to that beginning, John 17. He's recording that prayer. I'm passing this love on to you, the very love that we had before the beginning of creation. And so then when he gets to First John, what's interesting is that first little paragraph in First John, he goes from him to that. He's calling him an it. Because we're at the place in John 20 here where it's like, you're going through this story. I mean, think of, like, if you're watching a movie and you're seeing Jesus and he's an interesting fellow, and he's making all these claims, and all of a sudden he dies. And you're like, well, that's that. And then he comes back. I mean, if you were watching this and you had never heard anything about the story of the Bible, you're like, well, wait a minute now. The guy was dead and now he's coming back to life. This is just unbelievable. Which is why Thomas was like, I'm gonna have to see this. And now you realize that, oh, going back to my movie illustration. The person who wrote this movie has now entered the movie and turned it upside down. It's like, not only are we going a different direction, I'm gonna die and come back to life. And it's like, I'm the person who created all this, and I became a human, they killed me, and now I'm back to life. It's just all of a sudden you're like, well, this is not realistic. This is crazy.

[Al]

Well, think about it, James. The biggest problem, it appears to me, and we'll talk about this when we get to one second, three John, is that now that some years have passed and the resurrected king left here, and so he's not present on earth, but we know he's reigning and we know the kingdom is here. But now all of a sudden, with him not being on site, there are all this doctrinal, you know, false teaching comes up. Well, he really wasn't a human anyway. Then, I mean, obviously, you know, he. If he were. If he were the true Messiah, if he were the true anointing, well, he would be here, you know, and he would be a king here. We still wouldn't be under Roman oppression and we. Blah, blah, blah. So you can understand why this even probably cropped up. It's because they never understood the nature of what Jesus came to do, and they certainly didn't understand the Holy Spirit.

[Jay]

And now when you look at the transformation that they have, and that little, little verse in John 20 where he. He breathed on them. The Holy Spirit.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jay]

And it's kind of like this little private ceremony that Jesus had when he was baptized and the Holy Spirit came on him all of a sudden. It had this public consequence of changing the world. And these guys go through that same kind of process. And the Bible calls that an anointing. It's heaven and earth coming together. And you become as human beings who have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit portals for making this happen. So it's like the next time you see someone being anointed with oil, there's way more going on here. Don't get hung up on the symbolic language. But that's why James put it in there.

[Al]

That's right.

[Jay]

This is. Think the Jacob's Ladder. Why did he anoint that place those rocks with oil? Because, I mean, they're rocks. Because he was making a symbolic gesture that God was there. This is the house of God. And so I think you fast forward that to us being termed the household of God and we're the living stones and all these things, because the Spirit think those last two verses in Ephesians 2. I mean, it kind of gets on you, like in a powerful way.

[Al]

You know, it's funny, Jace, because I don't know if I've ever told the story on the podcast, but when we were. I was working for the church and we were living in West Monroe and we had built our first house. This is a little bitty house and very tiny. But we had our big house church in there and just it was man rocking and ministry was awesome. And then we got an opportunity to build a bigger house out in Calhoun because Mac owned some land out there. And so several of us from the church, there's several of them that still are out there on on this street across from Godwin and Paula. And when we were building this house, you know, I was reading these passages, the ones you're describing, especially this idea that a place could be anointed. And so I got Bill Smith to come out and Carl, who are our mentors, they were elders. And we had our house church, and we met in the house as it's being built, one, one, one of our meeting times. And it. So it's just. Imagine it's just all like the naked studs and the concretes in the house. And so I had everybody in our house church write scriptures on the studs of the walls. And then I had Carl and Bill pour oil and do an anointing of our house because I was like, I want this to be a house that God lives in, lives in us, thrives in, and all. And all this.

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[Jay]

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[Al]

And so, you know, we anointed our house and look, it was an amazing place of ministry. And I'll say this years later, when Lisa and I just came to a disastrous point in our marriage relationship. I mean, obviously we told our story before on the podcast. It was in that same house and right out in the backyard where she finally came to Christ and changed Our destiny, you know, in terms of ministry, of what we do. So I think. I mean, I'm telling you, it's there.

[Jay]

Yeah, I mean, this is a really. I mean, I'm just giving you a thumbnail of it, because this. There's so many other passages that have these hints in the same idea. Even in, like the book of Isaiah, looking forward to Jesus coming as the Anointed one. There's three chapters that I'll mention that mention him as the anointed one coming. Isaiah 11, Isaiah 42, Isaiah 53. And so when you. When you read those and then think of something like Matthew 16, when he's saying, well, who do you say that I am? And they're like, well, some say you're a prophet, and some say, you know, you're Elijah, and you remember that discourse. But all these categories and people that they're mentioning had this special anointing and on behalf of God were used. And then he's like, but who do you say I am? And Peter makes that famous saying, you are the Christ. Well, there's that. The Anointed One, the Son of God. And on this rock he tells Peter, I'll build my church. And then he connects that to the kingdom, which is what I wanted to bring up. Because in Mark chapter one, when you read that, you see this anointing, you see him talking about the kingdom coming in, and you see the good news of what he's bringing. But also, I wanted to mention that in the Psalms, you see this too, about the anointed One coming. You read Psalm 2, Psalm 3, Psalm 20, Psalm 21, Psalm 22. Look, there's way more than this. But as you read these things, connecting all the dots that we said this originally, this is symbolic of, you know, in the Garden of Eden, this water and spirit coming together, the plants flourishing, and then the oils of these plants symbolically representing liquid life. And that's the same thing that was used in the book of Exodus, even down to the recipe of this. And these different kind of things they were using from cinnamon to. And the basis of this was olive oil, which. What is that representing? You know, life and fruit.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jay]

And you fast forward to when even healing days.

[Al]

I mean, a lot of those things represented and still do to this day, a lot of those oils are healing oils as well, like for wounds. And I mean, it's just. There's so many qualities of that which speaks exactly to what the Holy Spirit does, you know, in terms of physical.

[Jay]

And what I found fascinating about this whole study about Anointing was in all these things with the kings and the. And the priests and all the. Even the recipe for all this. These plants that were used for the oil, if you just take them and try to eat them by themselves, they're either bitter or these were like extractions from them once they were crushed. And in all these anointings, it took a lot of time. There was always suffering as a part of it. You had to wait, and nothing happened fast. And so all these images that are being represented there, when you get to Jesus being the anointed one, well, he basically lives out that whole process which ended in him being crushed, suffering. It was years that went by before it culminated to the resurrection. And I found that fascinating because now, as us being anointed with the Holy Spirit and having the indwelling, we still go through that same process. There's suffering, there's persecution. And when you tie all that together, you're kind of figuring out the theme of the Bible and redemption and the process that goes along with it. Even though you have the Holy Spirit and you're representing heaven, there's. There's something in this struggling in the wilderness and. And growth process and the pain that's happening that God is there with you during the process that makes his power known, it makes his presence known. It gives you your purpose. It comes back to that, us representing heaven and God himself.

[Al]

Despite all this, the thought that kept popping up in my mind was the two instances. One was in Luke 7 and then one is in John 12 where you have two different women. The sinful woman from a town comes in when Jesus is having dinner at the house of Simon, a Pharisee. And remember, she was crying and over on his feet and washing his feet with her tears. And then she anointed him with this very expensive perfume. And, you know, and then Simon is like, oh, he's looking over. He's like this guy, you know, if he were a prophet, he'd know what kind of woman this is that's anointing him. And so in that picture, you see just what John was describing. Later, you see a person whose heart is just pouring out because she's desperately seeking forgiveness of her life, and she knows she can get that from Jesus. And you got this other guy who's Antichrist, who is just. All he sees is judgment in the moment. And then you get over to John 12, and of course it's Mary, the Lazarus sister that anoints him again with an expensive perfume. And who do you have right there? The antichrist Judas, yes. Complaining and griping and saying, this money should have been, you know, this perfume should have been sold and money given to the poor. And both times, you see a heart that looks to Jesus and trust him, because that was a preparation for his burial, is what Jesus said in the message.

[Jay]

Well, and he said, that'll be told forever. Now you see why he made such a big deal about that. Because when you look at the theme of this, from the beginning of creation until now, he is the anointed one. He's the chosen one, which is another word for anointed one, the chosen one. And he. Where everyone else was lacking in that process. I mean, even David. It's a very interesting study. He got it more right than everyone else that had been anointed. But then look what happens. He falls off a cliff. And so you see the culmination and the process that Jesus would ultimately provide in being the human of all humans and reflecting God's character perfectly and then introducing what real love is, even forgiving his enemies in the end. And that's why when you see that verse, that's hard to wrap your head around, when he breathed on them, the Holy Spirit, and of all things, he brings up this idea of approaching sin when he says, receive the Holy Spirit. And that's in John 20 and verse 22. And then he gets into, if you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven. If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven. In which now you see why that makes sense. Because you are representing God himself and you're qualified. You have the Holy Spirit. And look, al we spend. How much time do we spend with people on our couches when people are stuck in a sinful situation and we're like, hey, what do we got to do to stop this? This is not. You're claiming that Jesus is Christ, and yet your lifestyle and your sinful relationship or habit or whatever you're into is declaring anti Jesus.

[Al]

No, it's so good. And you're exactly right. And it's the only pathway to true healing and restoration is to find that. I love that you brought up David in that, because we've been doing a life of David on our Hillsdale podcast. And I mean, you want to see a comparison of where a guy can be in two different places? Read Psalm 23, which Jay's also mentions anointing. You know, you anoint my head with oil.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[Al]

And. And see the confidence. And when. When David is, you know, following God and doing the right thing. And then go read Psalm 51, which is what happens after he goes through this terrible scandal and murder and adultery and basically sets his house on fire and his family will never be the same again because of some terrible decisions. And read that psalm. Now, both of them show you a heart for God, but one of them is a wrecked place that's desperately asking for him not to take his spirit away from him and to renew him and to rebuild him into something different, which he does over the course of his life. But you're right. It's such a beautiful picture to see. And that could be any of us and is all of us in a sense.

[Jay]

Well, that's why I brought this up. I hate it took Zack that getting sick for me to make. Well, he.

[Al]

He jettisoned us on the podcast James. So it's only fitting that we would have a great study about anointing.

[Jay]

Well, because the, you know, the James 5, it's like you're praying for a guy that's. That's sick, but then all of a sudden he brings up sins. And I think it comes back to this power of sin and death that the evil one contributed to making it happen on the earth in this battle of heaven and earth. And then what God did through Jesus life, his death, his burial, his resurrection, to end sin and death and also to defeat the powers. But that connection is there. And you think of all the miracles that Jesus did where he would heal someone, then he would say, well, which is easier for me to tell him his sins are forgiven or to heal him. And it's the same concept as God's anointed one to end this sin and death. And I think it's good news. And I wanted to bring this up because once you see this, you will never unsee it. I mean, we mentioned, I mentioned those few psalms, but you're right, Al. It's filled all over the place, even in Isaiah. And when you look back on God raising up these people and they're going through this little ceremony with the oil, which seems so crazy. I mean, you're smear. It literally means smearing oil on someone's face. But even when you look up the definition of the word out of the anointing, it has a. The word. When I looked up in the Greek lexicon, like one of the ways that described this process was vicious. And it's a power word that you're unleashing a power that is not earthly. It's coming from God. So. And it's representing back to Jesus baptism when he got that Holy Spirit. Like I said, there's a reason that there's no miracles that Jesus performed before that act happened. And then he has this battle with the evil one about the kingdoms that you brought up in your sermon. So you're seeing the powers collide, which is really a theme in the Bible. And then Jesus starts his ministry and he starts healing not only the earthly problems that are the sign of death, all these sicknesses and ailments and all this, but he's also forgiving people's sins because he's representing the heavenly on earth.

[Al]

And it's so good because ultimately when he destroys death itself, then does disease really control us anymore? Because at the end of the day, we're going to be restored fully with resurrected bodies that are going to be like his. That what we see, which is very, very powerful. So it's a what a rabbit hole. I'm glad we had a chance to discuss it. I want to close with a prayer for Zach in seriousness because we've been joking about him. But also I want to pray for a couple Al and Kim, who are great listeners up in Memphis area and I know they're going through some cancer battles and some stuff in their lives too. And you guys have been on my heart. I know there's others. So since we are spirit filled men, I want to pray that prayer of anointing, of healing for you guys as well. Father, we are blessed to we get the opportunity to just talk about your word and the power of it. And I'm so glad Jay said this rabbit hole because it's a, it's a very inspirational to think that your spirit lives in us, which then allows us to participate in your nature. And that's such a gift and we thank you for that. We do pray for Zach, Father. Just give him strength, heal his body, rest his mind so he'll be ready to go next time we get together to talk more about your word. I want to pray for Kim and Al. I know Al just had surgery and you know, it's been a big battle for. They love you, they love our podcast. And so I pray for healing for them and no matter what with anybody that's sick out there in Unashamed nation to understand and realize we will be resurrected. We're going to lead this life at some point just like dad did, unless you come back first. And so we just pray that we will be strong and faithful to the end and unashamed. We love you in Jesus name. Amen.

[Jay]

Amen.

[Al]

Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple podcast and don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.