Ep 1236 | Jase Breaks His Silence on the Personal Mistake That Became THAT ‘Duck Dynasty’ Episode

Summary

Podcast Summary: Unashamed with the Robertson Family

Ep 1236 | Jase Breaks His Silence on the Personal Mistake That Became THAT ‘Duck Dynasty’ Episode

Date: December 29, 2025
Participants: Al Robertson, Jase Robertson, Zach Dasher

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Episode Overview

In this honest and layered episode, the Robertsons return after a brief break to share stories of family, faith, and food, including the origin of a memorable “Duck Dynasty” episode inspired by Jase’s real-life donut-eating misadventure. The discussion weaves together humorous personal anecdotes, biblical insights—especially from John 20 on Thomas’s moment of doubt and belief—and reflections on the true meaning of participating in God’s divine nature. This episode offers a deep dive into the Gospel message, the challenges of living it out, and the practical implications for believers in a divided world.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Family, Food, and Faithful Humor

• Opening Banter & Sandhill Crane Tasting

  • The crew opens with laughter, recounting their first experience tasting Sandhill crane, comparing its texture to filet mignon but “a little tougher” (Jase, 02:11).
  • Al and Jase joke about misunderstandings with "fowl/foul" (02:18), showcasing their signature family banter.

• Traditions and Potty Humor

  • The Robertsons reflect on Christmas traditions and how their humor sometimes misses the mark with their wives.
  • Jase shares: “I asked my wife after the Christmas podcast...She does not like potty humor. Which I knew I was taking a chance…” (07:01–07:05).

2. The ‘Hot Donut’ Incident: Real-Life Inspiration for Duck Dynasty

• The Story Behind the Episode

  • Jase recounts a cherished family worship night followed by an impromptu trip for hot donuts, which quickly devolved into chaos: “You can be on the top of the mountain and then all of a sudden kids start crying...businesses are not functioning...” (09:19).
  • Jase describes his (unfortunate) glory days: “For five years...We’d go frog hunting all night, and then...first in line at Shipley's Donuts...We’d all eat a dozen and see who could eat them fastest” (14:16–14:49).
  • The infamous episode genesis: “There was an episode in Duck Dynasty where we had a donut-eating contest. That’s where that came from…I showed up to the set and I was not feeling well...I just ate 18 glazed donuts. They’re like, 18?...Next thing you know, we're doing an episode on it.” (15:01–15:41).

• Memorable Quote

  • “You can eat twice as many when they’re hot.” – Jase (15:39)

3. Confession, Forgiveness, and Getting Along

• Real-life Conflict and Resolution
  • Zach apologizes to Jase for pre-show sarcasm: “I want to apologize to Jase for being very sarcastic with you…that was not—I shouldn’t have acted that way. I’m sorry.” (05:26–05:52)
  • Al observes: “It shows you how hard it is for people to get along. All you need to do to prove that point is just get together in a room and start talking.” (06:23)

4. Diving Deep: John 20, Thomas, and the Resurrection

• Biblical Analysis

  • The conversation pivots to John 20 and Thomas’s iconic moment of doubt and belief.
  • Jase connects the episode’s core to participation in the divine: “[Jesus’] new mode of being...we get that new body because we have the Holy Spirit…this is the mode of being that we’re all looking forward to” (37:02–37:30)

• Key Insights

  • On Belief:
    • “Thomas gets a bad rap…He’s the first person on record to realize not only is he Lord…but he’s God.” – Jase (49:33–49:41)
    • “Christ doesn’t require us to be 100% convinced of who he says he is...What he is saying is to trust me, to lean into this...It may be a sliver, just a mustard seed size of faith...and Christ says, yep, that right there will move a mountain.” – Zach (55:17–56:42)
  • Physical Resurrection:
    • “He didn’t just abandon his [physical] body to the grave...With the doubters like Thomas, he’s like physical body, like, touch this thing...This is a God that says, ‘Put your hand on the wound.’” – Zach (46:57–47:49)
  • Faith Beyond Sight:
    • “‘Blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have believed.’...That’s all of us, even though we haven’t seen it, we believe it. And you can have that experience of love and peace through his spirit.” – Al (49:55–55:08)

• Memorable Moments

  • The group marvels at how Jesus’s bodily resurrection affirms the value of the physical—a contrast to purely spiritualized Christianity.
  • They emphasize the communal aspect of the faith: “Family reflects the very nature of who [God] is.” – Zach (33:33)

5. Living Out Participation in God’s Life

• Practical & Theological Application
  • The hosts discuss how believers are called not to a private conversion moment, but a public, ongoing life shaped by the Spirit:
    • “Salvation is not just a one-time little moment where I went public and then I live a private life...The opposite should be occurring.” – Jase (42:55–43:09)
  • They connect participation in God’s nature to creativity, culture, and generational legacy:
    • “When the Holy Spirit lives in you, you have the pathway to create anything and everything, which is what he does.” – Al (28:27)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “I am unashamed. What about you?” – Jase, opening mantra (01:07)
• “You can be on the top of the mountain, and then all of a sudden kids start crying...” – Jase (09:19)
• “Because I showed up to the set and I was not feeling well...I just ate 18 glazed donuts.” – Jase (15:24)
• “He’s the first person on record to realize not only is he Lord...he’s God.” – Jase (49:33)
• “Christ doesn’t require us to be 100% convinced...It may be a sliver, just a mustard seed size of faith...that right there will move a mountain.” – Zach (55:17)
• “Salvation is...a private declaration that’s going to affect your public being everywhere you go.” – Jase (41:42)
• “Family reflects the very nature of who he is.” – Zach (33:33)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 01:12 – 02:50: Sandhill crane feast story and opening banter
• 07:38 – 09:40: Jase shares “perfect day” worship & donut drive story
• 14:16 – 15:41: Origins of Duck Dynasty donut-eating contest episode
• 19:21 – 29:23: Deep dive into John 20, participation in divine nature, Holy Spirit
• 32:50 – 34:03: The Trinity, communal love, and family as God’s reflection
• 35:16 – 39:08: Thomas’s doubt, resurrection differences, implications for belief
• 49:10 – 55:17: Thomas’s confession (“My Lord and my God”), believing without seeing, and mustard seed faith

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Tone & Style Notes

The episode retains the Robertsons’ trademark warmth, humor, and authenticity—mixing laughter over donuts, gentle teasing, and sincere Bible reflection. There is a tangible sense of family, both in their storytelling and their approach to faith. The balance between practical illustrations and theological exploration makes it accessible for listeners old and new.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is a blend of down-to-earth storytelling and deep Gospel teaching. You’ll learn about a real-life event that shaped a beloved Duck Dynasty episode, hear confessions and reconciliations among the hosts, and receive a heartfelt reminder of the transformative power of faith—even for those with doubts. The Robertsons invite you, as ever, to embrace an “unashamed” faith: one that is public, creative, loving, and rooted in the living Christ.

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Next Up:
In the following episode, the crew promises to explore the post-resurrection appearances not detailed in John, and tackle the densely packed Chapter 21.

Transcript

[Al]

So no matter how you slice it, we're definitely in a divided time in our country. There's. There's no way around it. We see it every single day and watch the news. And so I think in this time of division, we have to have consistency that speaking into the values that we believe in. One of our good friends, Tony Perkins, heads up an organization called Family Research Council. As Louisiana guy is a pastor, he has our heart for Jesus. He even did a blurb in Dad's book, Theft of America's Soul. And it's just been there for us as a family, but also as a nation. So FRC is standing for what's right. They defend faith. They protect families. They remind leaders that biblical truth still matters. So when others compromise, our friends at FRC stand firm. Because if we lose our foundation, we lose the soul of our nation. Unashamed Nation. You guys can help out FRC by defending what matters most by visiting FRC.org unashamed to learn more. Check them out.

[Jase]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Al]

So welcome back to Unashamed. We just. Jason and I just had a wonderful treat. The the Duckman slash Buckman guys came in with some sandhill crane. Fresh off the smoker. That was awesome.

[Jase]

We do our podcast at a company called Duck Commander, and so sometimes that gets crossed over in that we're fixed to do a podcast, and it's like, hold up.

[Al]

I mean, they just. Luckily we hadn't started Sandhill.

[Zach]

It was like the Sand Hill Crane Commander.

[Al]

Now.

[Zach]

I mean, that's.

[Al]

Well, they were filming for their stuff, and so they're filming us filming our stuff.

[Jase]

Well, I walked by and what y' all cooking today? He said, we got some sandhill crane.

[Al]

I will admit it's my first time to ever eat it. I'd heard a lot about it. It's delicious. It doesn't even hardly taste like foul. It's a little more coarse, as Jay's pointed out, than a filet mignon. But it's very similar when you say.

[Zach]

Course like chewy or just tougher.

[Jase]

A little tougher. Tougher texture than, like, that's.

[Al]

That's what makes it foul, you know, but still very delicious.

[Jase]

And you mean foul as in F.

[Al]

O W L. Yeah, Not. There is some foul. That's foul. But we're not talking about.

[Jase]

For you listeners out there who don't realize that God put us in charge of the animal world, a sandhill crane is actually. When you think crane, you're like, you just ain't a crane. But this Bird is I think it's like 5 foot high and about 4ft wide with its wings out.

[Al]

And it is a migratory huntable bird. Mostly in Texas is where they probably do the best with them.

[Jase]

Yeah, West Texas is. Is the where they hang out.

[Al]

But I'm telling you, I'm a fan.

[Jase]

They make an interesting sound. Have you ever heard them?

[Al]

No. Kind of like Zach throwing up.

[Jase]

You don't actually.

[Zach]

Yeah, I got more bass note than that.

[Al]

That's a callback that to the last podcast that was.

[Zach]

Yeah, that Jill.

[Jase]

It's actually the Jill.

[Al]

I tell you what, your. Your wife, Zach is one of my fav on the planet Jesus.

[Zach]

Spitfire, man. She'll throw a man under the bus.

[Al]

She will throw Zach under the bus so fast it's not even funny.

[Jase]

Yeah, well, we've documented already that.

[Al]

Let me mention our good friends at Family Research Council. You know, earlier when we were talking, we. We seem divided, but we're really united because we love doing this podcast together. Unfortunately, our nation really is divided. And so the only thing that really works to pull people together is. Is some good news. And our good friends at Family Research Council make sure that biblical truth still matters on Capitol Hill and in Washington D.C. they defend faith. They protect families. They remind leaders that what we speak in truth and love matters. What they say is pray, vote, stand, which we love that that's what we want to do to make a difference. We want you to help them out. Our good friend Tony Perkins. Been a friend for a long time. Help FRC keep defending what matters most. Visit FRC.org Unashamed to learn more. So. So we were off for a while and we. We talked about the last podcast on our Christmas episode. Zach was sick, so we missed a couple of episodes in there being sick. So Zach, we're glad that you're better. And Zach, we did. We. We kind of threw you under the bus too at first. But at the end of our second one, we were talking about anointing. Jase had a tremendous rabbit hole that we. He had been holding in his back pocket that we decided since it was just he and I, we would do that. And at the end of that, because we were in James 5, we prayed for you, Zach. So just so you know, even though we give you a hard time, we pray for you in earnest before the Almighty to get well. And you are so we'll give God the credit.

[Zach]

Well, I really appreciate that. It was about a 28 hour bug. That was brutal. But I appreciate the prayers and I did feel better the next Day.

[Jase]

So I also made the connection in James 5 that sometimes when you're sick, he kind of connected it with some kind of sin in their life.

[Al]

We did throw that out that needed to be exposed. So is there anything you need to confess as we start with you back?

[Jase]

You know what? There is.

[Zach]

I want to apologize to Jace for being very sarcastic with you. And before this podcast started, we got in an argument. We won't get into the argument, but I got a little salty and I got sarcastic, and I told you that I would agree with you, but just. I said, I need a black magic marker that I named about eight verses I needed to mark out of my Bible, and that was not. I shouldn't have acted that way. I'm sorry.

[Jase]

Well, no apology needed. When you went on that little rant, I was rolling my eyes. You just couldn't see it.

[Al]

And I thought, sometimes we have our own internal private debates on this podcast. Not on air. And then Maddie had to come in and say, okay, I declared a draw. Let's get started.

[Jase]

But it does.

[Zach]

And Al called me a. What you call me? A benevolent.

[Al]

Benevolent overlord. You missed that.

[Zach]

He walked out. We'll leave it up to you. Our benevolent overlord.

[Al]

Passive aggression. You decide you're a benevolent overlord, but.

[Jase]

It shows you how hard it is for people to get along. All you need to do to prove that point is just get together in a room and start talking.

[Al]

And look, we're willing to do a podcast with our wives. You talk about bold. I mean, that's a bold move.

[Jase]

Yeah, well, I asked my wife after the Christmas podcast that we just did. I said, what do you think, baby? I thought it was good. And she went, I don't think she liked the toilet paper and the you being sick sound effects. She does not.

[Al]

She doesn't like potty humor, which. Which I knew I was taking a chance by giving you Jace the giant toilet paper roll because Missy's not a big fan of potty humor. And we don't do it a lot on the podcast, but we do it enough to amuse our audience, because it's not.

[Zach]

Well, you talked about Christmas traditions on that. I was thinking one is, I think the family as a whole, that. That seems to be a reoccurring theme of, like, the pot. The potty humor.

[Al]

Yeah, well, yeah, sometimes the wives don't like it, but let's face it, it's a part of the. It's a part of the world.

[Jase]

I purposefully left out a story that I told about me giving Christmas gift, which was an experience at a music.

[Al]

Which I thought was a really good.

[Jase]

Story, but it turned out to be just a really good worship time together. But I left out the end of the story because it just shows you how life is. We had a wonderful gathering with our family and we sang to the Lord and worshiped and it was a secret and everybody was happy. But we had three little kids. And so time wise, when we're coming back home, well, it's getting late. They all went to sleep. And Reed, my son, said, this has been a perfect day. And so. Which meant a lot to my wife when he said that, because it was like, they're from Nashville. They came down here. We had this worship experience and here we have my oldest son saying this was a perfect day and we're the host. So I thought, yes. And so then he's like, you know what? There's a donut place on the south side of town that opens at 10 o' clock at night. I wonder when we're going to go through there. And so I looked it up on Google Maps and we were, we could arrive at 10 o' clock. And he's like, that's the way to end this day with these hot donuts, which they are good.

[Al]

And you've spoken of hot donuts before on this podcast.

[Jase]

That's where it all went wrong. Because when we got there in line, we were second in line. Well, they, it's in a pretty poor part of town. And guess what? They were late. And so time started ticking. But even though they open at 10, they didn't really open till 10, 20. The kids woke up, started screaming and you know, the women are like, let's just put this up. Let's just go home in because we're still 30 minutes from our house because.

[Al]

They weren't going to eat donuts anyway. Missing.

[Jase]

And so then it just shows you how life is. You can be on the top of the mountain and then all of a sudden kids start crying. Things don't go right. Businesses are not functioning. And so even it, even though those donuts were good because we eventually got them.

[Zach]

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[Jase]

No, it's been there for years. When my kids come in town, they all go over there. I'm like, you know, carry a gun and carry some, some security. And it opens at 10.

[Al]

Yeah, it's sort of like built on.

[Jase]

The idea, you know, it's crazy. There were 20 cars in line with us.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jase]

At 10 o'.

[Zach]

Clock.

[Al]

It's the old idea. Is that member over in Shreveport, this other maid that opens and stay and they cook at night so that the doughnuts are fresh in the morning and then they can take them to places to sell. So that's kind of the idea.

[Zach]

But that's the place they cook them out.

[Al]

Yeah, that's where they cook them. Oak old filling station.

[Jase]

It's actually molten lava. I mean it's coming out of the green.

[Zach]

The place. Is it southern made? Is that what it is?

[Al]

No, I don't.

[Jase]

I don't know what it is. I don't think Rose got other.

[Zach]

Here's the thing with Monroe and I've so funny. I want to open up a donut shop here in Asheville area because we don't have good donuts. They got. They have donuts that are really expensive and like cake.

[Al]

Cake.

[Zach]

Like.

[Jase]

Let me give you the two tips. They need to be light and they need to be Hot.

[Al]

Yeah. Light and hot.

[Jase]

So there's one more.

[Zach]

There's one little. One more little factoid that I've discovered based on the exact place that I think you're talking about. And here's the. Here's the thing. Potato flour, that's what they use. It's different. And I mean, because, you know, when you. When they. When they're hot and you put them in your mouth and they just, like, collapse. Yeah, It's.

[Al]

Yeah, they melt.

[Zach]

Oh, it is one of the greatest.

[Al]

So Jason asked me earlier if the Sandhill crane we were eating was on my diet. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's straight protein. What you boys are describing now is 100 miles away from my PhD.

[Jase]

You know what's sad as I ate two of those hot donuts, and I thought, boy, this. This was the way the end of the day. But about 30 minutes later, I thought, not so much. I don't know how I feel. Feel kind of weird.

[Zach]

You pay the price for it, but you pay the price for it.

[Al]

One night, we were coming home from Tulsa Workshop, and it was about midnight, Jay, and we stopped at the one. The one I was mentioning this on i20 in. In Shreveport, Southern May. And we got about. We bought about. It was a car full of people. So we had a little donut eating contest.

[Jase]

Yeah.

[Al]

And so we all bought a personal dozen to see how many we could eat. And I ate all 12 before we even cleared Bossier. Yeah, I mean, I ate them by the racetrack. And it was like you said at first. It was like euphoria. And it was like, oh, they're so good. Then, I mean, when I got to about nine or ten, it was like, okay, then. Now I'm in, like, an eating contest. By the time we hit, I'd say Minden, which is another 30 minutes pass. Then I realized I'd made a serious mistake.

[Jase]

What's funny about this story, by the way?

[Al]

That's the way you get on PhD.

[Zach]

How'd you get fat again?

[Jase]

No, Al, you're telling a story that was like, one experience that you remember. You just described a way of life for me. For five years. We would go frog hunting and frog hunt all night, and then we would be first in line at a Shipley's Donuts. And I had a thing with them. Everybody knew me on a first name basis. And we pulled up there and they. They didn't have to say.

[Al]

They just, what are you doing here? They just handed you the box.

[Jase]

They knew. And they would look and see how many People were in the vehicle and.

[Zach]

They, it's a box for everybody.

[Jase]

We had all eat a dozen, and we would see who could eat them fastest, which was really the background for. There was an episode in Duck Dynasty where we had a donut eating contest. That's where that came from.

[Al]

That's right.

[Jase]

Because they were like, y' all go to donut places. Wait. Wait till they cook them, and then see how many you can eat. I was like, yep, that's what we do here.

[Al]

I tell people that all the time. Jason, about the storylines on Duck Dinosaur. What you see on the episode was birthed out of something that happened from our lives at some point in the past.

[Jase]

Yeah.

[Al]

We just relived those.

[Jase]

So that story happened because I showed up to the set and I was not feeling well. And they said, what's wrong? And I was like, well, I just ate 18 glazed donuts. They're like, 18. I was like, well, they were hot. Because you can eat twice as many when they're hot.

[Al]

You can.

[Jase]

And they're like, that's a thing. And next thing you know, we're doing an episode on it. So there you go.

[Al]

I think on the episode. Sigh 1. But in real life, it would have been j.

[Jase]

But I can eat way more than you.

[Al]

He can. I saw him one day eat six or seven of Dad's hamburgers.

[Jase]

Oh, yeah? Yeah.

[Al]

Which was amazing.

[Jase]

I don't know where it goes.

[Al]

So I want to mention this, I thought was interesting, since we were missing some podcasts in there, because we had. We've had a little gap in between podcast recordings. I was actually on someone else's podcast as a guest, and they were. They were coming here to Monroe to record it, which is unusual. Usually you just zoom in, like our. A lot of our guests do. But they were coming here. I think they just kind of wanted to see the place. And. And so one of them is a sports guy that's on Fox Sports. Jays. His name is Chris Broussard. I've. I've seen him before on a lot of shows. Then the other guy was a guy named Robin Johns, and he's kind of the money guy, investment guy from Boston. And so they. They were going to come here where they had a film crew that came in, because, you know, our crew. It's a Saturday. Our crew is off. And so there were three people that had gotten here the night before from wherever they came from. The setup I came in.

[Jase]

So.

[Al]

So I'm. I'm literally leaving my house to call. And when the production guy Calls me, and he was like, hey, they're delayed two hours because of fog. Because we had this serious fog last weekend. Because when here, right before it gets really cold, it's usually pretty warm. And so we get, you know, dense fog. Was. So this. These two people are flying in from the Northeast. They make it to Atlanta, and then they can't get here. They're stuck. So they set all this up and flew to Atlanta. So I get a call, like, two hours later. I thought, well, this ain't gonna happen. And I get a call two hours later, said, come on in. We're gonna do it remote. Which they could have done it remote to begin with, but they didn't. So I get here, show up right here at this table, and they're all setting it up, and they got a monitor. Well, these guys are doing the podcast from the Atlanta airport.

[Jase]

Oh, wow.

[Al]

Which I was like, so let me get this straight. You flew from New York and Boston to Atlanta to do a podcast in an airport with me, who's in Louisiana? Yep, that's pretty much it.

[Jase]

That's crazy.

[Al]

It was the craziest thing I've ever been a part of. But you know what? They pulled it off. And I was like, only in America could that happen. Would people attempt to fly cross country to get someplace to do something. It didn't work out. But instead of just saying, okay, look, like this wasn't meant to be, we pulled it off. They were in some kind of room in the airport that they said you could rent. I never even knew it was such a thing. I go through airports all the time. I go through Atlanta all the time. Do you know there's, like, a room you could rent?

[Jase]

I figured they were there. If you want to have a meeting.

[Al]

And if you have computers and nerds on. On the right end of the situation, like Maddie and others, then you can pull it off. Yeah, we did it. So we're going to. We're going to. Are we going to get back to John?

[Zach]

I hope.

[Al]

All right. So we. We left off, Zach. We. We never got to John 20. We just stopped. We did the anointing thing, and we had Missy on. So we left off with the appearances in John 20. And we got to the second appearance to the disciples, which is in verse 24. We hadn't read it yet. And sort of the feature person in this appearance is Thomas, one of the 12. And he wasn't present at the first one. You remember, Jesus just shows up in the room, which I thought was interesting, Jace, because he wasn't we didn't talk about this, but whenever he breathed the Holy Spirit on him, I guess he wasn't there yet to get that. Huh? I hadn't thought about that until right now.

[Jase]

I mean, I think this passage is difficult to wrap your head around this because I think the. What the reason John framed it this way, when it says he breathed on them, the Holy Spirit in connection with the actual pouring out of the Holy Spirit that was going to happen in.

[Al]

Acts 1 and 2.

[Jase]

Yeah, Acts 1 and 2.

[Zach]

So you guys know I have five kids. And what that means is it cost an absolute fortune to get health insurance for all seven of us. So when Christian Healthcare Ministries came along, I was like, sign me up. Because for our family, switching to CHM wasn't just about money, although it came in at half the cost, which is awesome. But it also aligns with what we believe, and it feels like a community, not a bureaucracy. So we submit our medical bills and believers from all over the country pitch in, and they also lift up our family in prayer. We have way more flexibility. I can go to any doctor I trust without having to go through a middleman. Plus, members have already shared more than $12 billion in medical bills together. So, you know, it's solid.

[Al]

When Lisa got cancer, health cost sharing really helped us make the difference because there were so many things that were outside of the insurance scope that it tremendously helped us by helping other people be involved in our process and helping us pay bills, but also just praying for us, you know, and knowing that we had that spiritual community out there with us as well.

[Zach]

So ditch your traditional health Insurance and join CHM today by visiting chministries.org Unashamed. That's chministries.org Unashaming Chministries.org Unashamed.

[Jase]

I really feel like this is kind of like when Jesus was baptized. It was kind of a private moment where he. That's why, Zach, you'll have to go back and listen to the Anointing podcast.

[Al]

Which I thought, yeah, they kind of branched out of this text to do that.

[Jase]

Yeah, well, it's fascinating, especially when you get to 1 John 2 and 3, which speaks of this. And it also brings up the anti Christ, the anti Jesus, not acknowledging Jesus as the Son of God. And he references what I think is this prediction of the Holy Spirit being poured out. Think John 14, 15 and 16.

[Al]

And so just to make the point, just to catch you up, Jay's rightly said, a couple of questions came from Nurseman and one of them was in 1st Peter 2. No, 2 Peter 2 Peter 1, which talked about how do we participate in the divine nature? And someone had asked him this in a Bible class that he was teaching, and he wasn't really sure what the answer was. And I thought Jay's correctly said, that's exactly what we're talking about. We participate in the divine nature because the divine lives in us, which goes back to this idea.

[Jase]

And I went to John 14, 15, 16 and then 17 in his prayer, talking about Jesus when he prayed to what he would pass on to his disciples and the believers that they could share in this love that he and the Father had before the beginning of the creation of the world. And of course, he brings up love, which is usually the first attribute mentioned as a fruit of the Spirit. And so that's what I think the anointing is. You're designated the chosen people of God through the work of Jesus and the Holy Spirit that's in dwelling us, which makes you children of God, which gets to 1 John 3. So that's kind of what we did. But this passage is. It's kind of like what I was comparing it to. Jesus, baptism. He receives that spirit as the anointed one, Jesus Christ. And we talked about Zach, that's not his name. That's his name with a title, Jesus the Anointed One. And in the Hebrew, it's the Messiah, Jesus, the Anointed One.

[Al]

That's what Christ means, right?

[Jase]

Yeah. And we trace it all the way back to the garden, which is this whole idea of anointing with oil. When you look in Exodus and like the recipe for the oil that would be used through the anointing, that's all these. The. What did we call it? The liquid life that was representative of the garden scene, where you have this water flowing through, giving life to the plants and the trees and all these things that make that. Even when it comes to seasoning and different things, these crushed plants with all these smells of life itself being used as kind of a symbol of God's divine breath combined with earth or dirt to bring life. And so that's kind of where we went with that, which is symbolically.

[Zach]

That's a great discussion. I mean, that question is at the core of really what I think we've been teaching, at least up here at our church. And really on this podcast, what does it mean to be a partaker or a participant in. In the very nature of God? It's why I always start with God as triune, as the beginning of the framework, because what you just said, I'd love that you ended up in John 17 because I would have gone to the exact same place for two reasons. One, because John 17 gives us a really beautiful understanding of the diversity and the unity within the Godhead. So we get to see that God is this eternal fountain of love. We get to see, you know, Father eternally loving Son and vice versa. And then the love between them and the nature of who God is. He is love. First John 4:8, First John 4:10. God is love. Like this is his being. And then also the second part of that is the way that Jesus defines eternal life in John 17. Three, when he defines it not merely as some kind of moral ascension, you know, or some mystical experience, he defines it as knowing and relational. Knowing the eternal life is this to know the one true God and Jesus Christ his Son, whom he sent. This is what eternal life is. And so when we talk about how do we actually partake or participate in the divine nature, it's it.

[Jase]

I.

[Zach]

The way I understand it is how do. What are the ways that we live that reflect God's inner life? Like, we're doing stuff that reflects who his inner life is. Our sexuality should reflect the inner life of God. Family reflects the inner life of God. How we work reflects the inner life of God.

[Jase]

How.

[Zach]

Well, you said it. You go back to Genesis. That's Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 1:28. It's God made man in his image. He said, be fruitful, multiply, subdue the earth and have dominion over it. That's a reflective of the inner life of God. That's what God does. So the way that would look is God creates the world. And then he tells us, I want you to now go take the world I created, and then you go create stuff out of it. God births life into the world. And then God says, now I want you to get together, and y' all now birth new life into the world. God has dominion over everything. And he says, now I want you as vice regents, to have dominion. So we're like, little like vice regents is the way I would understand it. We're vice regents that were not God. We don't create exactly like God does because he creates out of nothing. But we do create stuff. We create art and culture and music and all kinds of things. So to me, that's how we actually participate in the inner life of God.

[Al]

Which is interesting, Zach, because the podcast I was telling you about earlier that I was on is about investment, obviously. And they'd asked me a question about Our family going generation to generation. Is that how to. How do you motivate the next generation to be builders of success or wealth? You know, you think about. From a business perspective, because we were talking about Del Commander, our family business. And because a lot of times what happens is, you know, a company will be very successful, but pass on to the children, but they already have wealth. So they just stop. They just become takers instead of builders and givers. And so we talked about that. That's how you stunt that and stop that. But we talked about what you just said, Zach, that God had created us to build and to create. That's the idea. And when the Holy Spirit lives in you, you have the pathway to create anything and everything, which is what he does.

[Jase]

That's why the passage to me, the most profound, you mentioned all those where God is love, but when he gets to the end of First John 3 and says, and this is his command to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us, which is echoing John 17 in the prayer, those who obey his commands live in him and he in them. Also an echo of John 17. I'll be in them, they'll be in us. And this is how we know that he lives in us. We know it by the spirit he gave us. Then it's interesting that when he gets into the next chapter, it's like, don't believe every spirit. Make sure that it's the one that is highlighting Jesus as the Son of God. Right. Which is why we went that anointing route.

[Zach]

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[Jase]

Well, Matthew 18 is devoted to helping kids and kids being like the kingdom of God. You look around and you see these kids and you just want to plant a seed of hope in Jesus.

[Zach]

We totally agree with Tomorrow Clubs and believe in long term discipleship relationships. So here's the deal. DOL trains a tomorrow club leader. 250 covers a one time cost to equip a local church. And if God places it on your heart, you can sponsor an entire community for $2,000 which will launch and sustain the ministry in a new community for an entire year. But any amount will help to be honest with you. And every gift is going to be matched for a limited time so you can double your impact. So join the bingo [e-mail] unashamed that's tomorrowclubs.org unashamed have you ever heard this? It's an argument or like a line of reasoning called. It's called the one and the many. And, and the, the idea of it is, is that your view of God is going to matter because how you view God is, is how you are going to participate in his inner life, how you're going to partake in his divine nature, as Peter would say. And so if you look at a religion like Islam, their view of God is mono. He's one person. And so the way that flows out into participation in that godhead. They don't have a godhead, it's just one. It's very authoritarian, abusive. Like you see it in the actual religion itself. It's extreme order, but it's like order to the point of absolute control and just domination. And you see that flow out in the entire religion where on the other side that would be something like, maybe like an eastern religion of the many, where gods, Jesus, anybody look on the shelf, there's a million gods and they're all sitting on the shelf. You could just pick all of them, pick one of them. It's everything. And to partake in that kind of divine nature is utter chaos. And it just leads to just anarchy. And so you can see this play out in politics. It could be where if you look at the One and that's what your focus is and that's the God you're going to image, well that's going to end up in tyranny. On the other side, if it's the many, well that's going to end up in anarchy. And so it's only within the framework of God being triune that we can have an understanding of something that we can actually partake in that's real. And I think the core of that realness, it is that God is love. Only a triune God can be a God of love. You can't say that about any other God. You can't say God is love about any of the other gods, but you can say that about this God, the God of the Bible. And I've asked the question before. Well, why does he have to be three? Why can't he just be two? And they could just love each other. Why does it have to be three? And the reason why is because the way that God loves in his very nature, it's not an exclusive love that excludes others. It's a love that actually spills out into more love. And so when you think about that couple in high school that's in love with each other and they're so obsessed with each other that they exclude everybody else around them, it's like the most annoying couple in the world.

[Al]

Right? That's right.

[Zach]

That's not it. That's not God. God's love is not an exclusive between two persons. God's love actually flows out and it's a communal love. And so when we're partaking in his nature, what we're actually partaking in is in a communal relationship. And that is why we have. Jay says this quite a bit, that the story of the Bible is a story about how God gets his family back. Well, why would God want his family back? Because family reflects the very nature of who he is.

[Al]

Which is why the disciples didn't say they came to build a monastery instead to build a kingdom. Because kingdoms grow. Right.

[Jase]

We actually brought that up for the one, for the many member. We talked about it not as eloquently as you just did, but we use that concept where you see him raising up one person at a person in a time in history for the many which kept failing until Jesus is basically.

[Al]

I hadn't thought about it until we just began this study. I did not think about this ahead of time. But now that I think about it, this is probably why John includes this story of Thomas in this context where he did. Because, remember, he wasn't there when Jesus shows up the first time. Remember, Thomas was missing. So here Jesus comes in peace be with you. Surprise everybody. They think he's a ghost. We talked about that from another one of the gospels. I'm not a ghost here. Reach and grab me. They do. Then he breathes the Holy Spirit on them. So now they have this greater understanding of what it's all about. Well, then he comes back because he comes back the next time because one of them was missing.

[Jase]

Well, right.

[Al]

And so this kind of becomes the first outreach post. Holy Spirit is Thomas.

[Jase]

Yeah. And it's I mean, I have thought about it.

[Al]

I have never thought about that.

[Jase]

Well, I just thought about it because I was like, well, he didn't get the memo. And I think it, it. You see also even with Mary, like grabbing a hold of him and because people don't really have an idea on what's going on here. Why is he saying wait? Because I think you got to remember they had seen Lazarus rise from the dead.

[Al]

Right?

[Jase]

But this was different because think about the differences in that. That was more what they, the scholars call a resuscitation, only to die again.

[Al]

Right.

[Jase]

Which I think it reflects our modern culture. I mean, I've had, I don't know how many Bible studies I've had where I'm like, you know, what is your, what's your story with Jesus? Or what's your relationship with the Lord? And then people will tell me where they had a near death experience and they're like, but God saved me. So then I ask the question again, what's that got to do with the Lord? I mean, what is that?

[Al]

Because when they said that to you, did it make you want to reach out and grab and see if they were like real flesh?

[Jase]

Well, yeah, I'm thinking I asked you what your relationship with God is and you're like, well, he saved me one time when I thought I was going to die. Because I'm thinking like Lazarus. Well, let's say he did. You're going to die again.

[Al]

You're still going to die. Unless he comes back, you're going to die for real.

[Jase]

And I think that shows you the difference in Jesus resurrection. There's a reason contrasted to Lazarus, that his grave clothes were still there. You remember, they had to take Lazarus off.

[Al]

They had to unwrap him.

[Jase]

That unwrap.

[Al]

He was a mummy.

[Jase]

There was an odor. You know, there's a lot of differences here. And I think this new launch of creation and death being not a part of it, Jesus was raised never to die again. He received his new body or his new mode of being, I guess would be a better way to frame it, whatever that is that we will receive first. John 3:1:3 echoes that, because it's like we don't know what we'll be, but we know when Jesus appears, we'll be like him. Well, what's he talking about? We're going to be like this, this mode of being. We get that new body because we have the Holy Spirit, which I think you read Romans 8, 11, the same spirit that raised Jesus from the dead. If it's living in. You will also give life to your mortal body. Well, this is the mode of being that we're all looking forward to. And it's not a Lazarus mode of being. This is Jesus mode of being, which is eternal. And so I think that's why he's like, I'm going back to the Father, which then makes the presence to the Father available for all humans because he's now died for our sins. And I think that's kind of the. I may be on an island here. I brought this up before, but I think that was the end of the atonement process which him being presented, think Hebrews where it says he entered heaven itself on our behalf as the atoning sacrifice, which then places us with him in the heavenly realms. That's Ephesians 2, 6. I mean, it makes all those verses that are hard to wrap your head around make sense to me.

[Al]

Well, and even Zach pointing out in a previous podcast, which I never thought about that scene where they looked in and you see that, you know, table where they had his body laid, the rock table. And then there's the two angels on either end literally being the atonement seat. It's a picture of what the all the Jews had seen their whole lives when they saw the Ark of the Covenant. Right. I mean, you're looking at it, you're seeing.

[Jase]

Well, that was my point about Thomas. And I've said that in Bible studies, when people share this near death experience, I'm like, well, you had a Lazarus experience.

[Zach]

Great.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jase]

But that's not complete.

[Zach]

It's one of the travesties or tragedies that has happened, that's happened to the American Evangelical church is that we stop the gospel at that. That's it. It's just, I got saved. Yeah, I got converted, whatever your language is.

[Jase]

Or even in a near death, they're just saying God saved me from physical death, so I must be saved or he wouldn't have done that. And I'm like, that's about you, really? And you just getting a few more.

[Al]

Years, which is the story of Hezekiah. Right. Remember, he's like, I'd like to get a few more years. And he said, okay, I'm going to give you a few more years.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jase]

This is bigger because in Jesus, resurrection, death itself has been destroyed. You don't even have to worry about death.

[Zach]

But it's even more than that, though. It's the big picture of what you said at the beginning. It's the participation that's the prize. The Prize is that you participate in the life of Christ and by so you participate in the life of God himself because Christ takes you into to dance with the Father through the Spirit. And so you see that we are partakers and participants based on the atonement and the finished work of Christ, that we get to be a part of this and that's the life. And so what happens with that is if you think man, you want to neuter the gospel of its power, then what you can do is you can just simply reduce it to only. Well what you said is even in the, that's not even the gospel. Like I got saved from a near death experience. But then I think you can reduce it even to man. I got saved like literally from hell and death itself. I got saved from that. But if you don't see that you're saved into the life of God, then you're actually neutering the gospel of its power because you're not understanding that he is the prize. And if you want to have true victory over sin and temptation, then what you're going to have to begin to understand progressively, in greater measure is that the things that are called sinful are actually the things that are horrible and that lead to death work and that aren't that. It's not what you want, it's hell. Right. And it's not going to satisfy you that Christ alone will satisfy us, that God himself will satisfy us. So we're drawn to into his life. That's the John 17. That really is the teaching of Jesus.

[Jase]

Well, I just think we got it wrong in our modern day religion because most people think, well, when you're baptized that's like, and whatever they say, it's like a public declaration, it's actually like a private declaration that's going to affect your public being everywhere you go. And I think that's the connection I'm making. It's kind of like Jesus, well he was baptized, you know, in an obscure ceremony where God declares, you are my son, with whom, you know, I'm well pleased, whom I love. And then all of a sudden he launches his ministry and the public is affected everywhere he goes. Well it's just like here, this little interaction that he's having with his disciples where he's breathed on them the Holy Spirit. It seems to be like a little private ceremony of launching the new creation. Well then how did it affect them publicly from the rest of the Bible from this moment in Acts? I mean they take off like a whirlwind out there and I really think it changed my perspective on how we use these phraseologies of just thinking, oh, salvation is just like a one time little moment where I went public and then I live a private life supposedly indwelled by the Holy Spirit that doesn't affect my surroundings. And I think it's just the opposite should be occurring.

[Zach]

So, guys, there's a battle out there that too many good people are fighting all by themselves talking about the struggle with pornography. But I want to encourage you and tell you that there is hope. We've partnered with our good friends at Covenant Eyes because we really believe in the tools that they have that bring accountability and victory into the light.

[Jase]

Yeah, I'd say the number one thing that I hear come up in the Bible studies is this struggle with pornography.

[Al]

Well, and Zach, Covenant Eyes, they've been doing this for many, many years and helping a lot of people, including yours truly, to not be bound by pornography because it's terrible and it destroys not only your own mind, but also can destroy your family and marriages as well.

[Zach]

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[Al]

Plus I love it that it's a little caveat too, that even though like the 10 who are in the room who now have received the Holy Spirit, they saw Jesus. They believe the first person that they're. If you want to use Zach's word he used earlier that we call today convert, the one you're wanting to lead to believe is the one who wasn't there. Look what his response is. Let me go ahead and read it in this last segment. Now, Thomas called Didymus verse 24, one of the 12 was not with the disciples, when Jesus came, so he wasn't there in what we just read and the Holy Spirit being breathed, he wasn't there. So the other disciples told him, we have seen the Lord. Now you'd think he had been with these guys for these last three years, that that would have been enough. And he just said, oh, okay, he's back. But he doesn't say that. He says to them, unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were and put my hand into his side, meaning, remember, they, they ran that spear in his side, I will not believe it. So that's pretty hardcore is that we talk about, you know, agnostic, we talk about all the different ideas of unbelief. Here's a guy that was with the other 10 for three years who said, oh no, he's back. He just came back, he breathed the Holy Spirit. He says, I won't believe it. So a whole week goes by. A week later, his disciples and Thomas is still not believing. Apparently a week later, his disciples were in the house again and Thomas was with them. This time, though, the doors were locked, same as before. Jesus came and stood among them and he said just what he said before. Peace be with you. Then he says to Thomas, remember, Thomas wasn't there until this point. Put your finger here, see my hands? Reach out your hand and put it in my side. Stop doubting and believe. Which is first of all, somehow Jesus in this new state is able to recreate it as his structure in a way that he bought the scars back and all that. I mean, I'm assuming if you're in a resurrected, glorified body, you weren't still having the scars from the O. He recreated that.

[Jase]

Well, I guess you could. I mean, you could also eat fish and hug people.

[Al]

Exactly. So I'm saying this is one more amazing thing about the body.

[Zach]

But you know, you got to look at this and think, well, I mean, I kind of understand Thomas's perspective. I would probably be the same way. Like, yeah, and we still have trouble. I think people still have trouble believing that Christ rose from the dead. And what I love about that story though is that how it elevates how Jesus himself elevates the physical world. I mean, think about this. We want to teach that the world's going to hell in a handbasket and you just grind it out. Boys, this earth doesn't matter. Nothing matters here. Well, Jesus incarnated first of all in a physical body to when that physical body was murdered, he didn't just Abandon it to the grave. Right. I mean, it was resurrected three. Now with the doubters like Thomas, he's like physical body, like, touch this thing. This is a God that says, touch me. This is a God that says, put your hand on the wound. Look at the physical manifestation of death being beaten here. And so it elevates our understanding and it elevates the importance of the physical universe. And what's interesting about how that works now is I've actually had this same exact experience. Not same exact, but a new version of this experience in walking with people, leading them to Christ. And a lot of times a big objection at the beginning is, how do you guys really believe that this guy rose from the dead? I mean, that is a crazy thing that we're claiming. We have to admit that. And what's interesting about that is what I have seen convince people of the validity of the resurrection of Christ is the physical manifestation of Christ in his church and in his kingdom. They see it, they touch it, they eat the food that God's people make around the table and they take that physical expression or they see us taking it of the communion. It's very tangible, Very tangible things that lead people to understand and believe. They really believe that God.

[Al]

So let me prove your point.

[Zach]

Rose from the dead.

[Al]

Let me prove your point because you're exactly right by reading the last three verses. So Thomas response to this after he says, stop down and believe my Lord and my God, which we have to stop right there. Yeah.

[Jase]

Because Thomas gets a bad rap because he doubted. But he wasn't part of the breathing the Spirit ceremony.

[Al]

Correct.

[Jase]

He's the first person on record.

[Al]

That's right.

[Jase]

To realize not only is, is he.

[Al]

Lord, because they've been calling him Lord all along.

[Jase]

He's God.

[Al]

He's God.

[Jase]

Which is why John started off in the beginning was the Word. Word was with God. The Word was God. The Word became flesh. Well, but now you see this realized in Thomas's mind and heart, which is true faith.

[Al]

So, and then here's. Zack, here's your point. Then Jesus told him, because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. Which that's kind of what you're talking about, is that not only the ones there, but also then everybody after that. And then verse 30 says, Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name, which I think that was probably the original end of the book. And then this chapter comes in later, which we'll talk about next podcast, which.

[Jase]

To me gives credibility to this story, because you have Mary, who wasn't even mentioned in the rest of the book, all of a sudden being the first person, a woman in their culture, which is the last thing you would try to get to convince people of that this really happened. Her testifying that the Lord had risen despite her tears. Now you have the one who doubted. At least all the rest of them were there. But then he makes this declaration. He puts it all together in a powerful way, saying, this fellow is God in human form. He's Lord and God. Now, granted, he saw it, which you would think, well, how could you not believe? But it makes me believe, even though I didn't see it because of the way this story is told. I'm like, there's no way you would make this up. Starting off with a woman saying, he's raised as your evidence. And then you take the one that doubted, but he saw it. And then you look at their lives. You can even read in historical documents that all these people went to their death rather than deny Jesus as Lord and God.

[Al]

Yeah, no, it's an amazing statement. And you're right. The fact he did it is sort of this second touch, Zach is almost like the Remember when he touched the guy twice and says, sometimes you have to be touched twice to believe. So let me at least read the other two verses before we leave the thought of Thomas to Jesus point, because Thomas does get a bad rap, but actually he had some good statements because he's mentioned two other times in the book of John, John 11. And remember, this is right after Lazarus has died. Jesus said, lazarus is dead. And for your sake, I'm glad I was not there so that you may believe, but let us go to him. So in the same context of belief, talking about Lazarus, Jesus in John 11:14, he says this about going to Lazarus. And then Thomas, here he is called Didymus, said to the rest of the disciples, let us also go, that we may die with him.

[Jase]

He wasn't scared to die.

[Al]

He wasn't scared.

[Jase]

Yeah, or the Lord. But when you start talking about a guy coming back in a different mode of being, he had to work that out.

[Al]

And to prove your point, John 14:5, when Jesus says, I'm going to prepare a place where memory is told, he said, don't let your hearts be troubled. Here's Thomas again, 14 5, Thomas said to him, Lord, we don't know where you're going, so how can we know the way? Because he says, if you follow me, if you trust me, you're going to know the way. And he says, how do we know the way? We don't know where you're going.

[Jase]

And you see at the end of that chapter, what Thomas probably didn't digest is he brings up in verse 26 of chapter 14, he said all this, I've spoken while still with you. But the counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have said to you, which Thomas needed this reminder in connection with the Spirit. But then watch what he says in verse 27 of 14. Peace, I leave with you, My peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. And that's the same thing he told Thomas when they had this encounter. Remember what he said? Peace. Yeah. He said, peace be with you. And I don't think that's by accident. True peace is understanding that Jesus came on the planet and that he destroyed death itself and he nailed our sins to a cross and redeemed us and will give us this participation with the actual Trinity of God via the Holy Spirit. And so I think that's what he was offering. And I think Thomas figured it out, which is why he said, my Lord and my God. He figured out how all that worked together. Jesus being a human, the Holy Spirit being offered, God sending Jesus and how that relationship worked through love, and it resulted in peace. And he found his peace on that day.

[Al]

Yeah. And I do think it's interesting that he said peace, meaning, like peace in the moment. But then also obviously he was talking about a much greater peace.

[Jase]

Well, exactly.

[Al]

That's going to happen.

[Jase]

And then he throws in everybody who would believe, which is all of us.

[Al]

It's all of us.

[Jase]

Even though we haven't seen it, we believe it. And you can have that experience of love and peace through his spirit. And it's the same story.

[Zach]

And I want to say this to those listening that are like, you know, there's that verse in the Bible that says, lord, help me in my unbelief. So when the Bible says believe in this, this is not simply a cognitive thing that you acquire, like I would like, I believe this is right here. This is a trust. I'm leaning into this. And the Bible says that you have faith the size of a mustard seed. You can move a mountain. Christ doesn't require us to be 100% convinced of who he says he is. We're going to have doubts. We're going to have times when we struggle with that. What he is saying is to trust me to lean into this and you may make a move on that. And that move, it may be a sliver, just a mustard seed size of faith that says, you know what, I got my doubts, but I want to believe. God help me in my unbelief. And I'm going to follow you and I'm going to move on this. Just on this sliver, like a microscopic mustard seed sized faith. I'm going to move on that. And Christ says, yep, that right there will move a mountain. So he doesn't require much. So don't think of this as being. I have to be 100% intellectually satisfied with this. That's not the requirement. The requirement is to move in faith the size of a mustard seed.

[Al]

Yeah, we never read about Thomas again, but I'm assuming he probably did great things for God over the course of his life. So we're out of time. We come back on the next Unashamed. There are a couple of more of appearances that aren't mentioned in John, which we'll talk about before we get into that last chapter, which is a doozy in chapter 21. So we'll get into that next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts and don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode. Episode.