Ep 1237 | Jase Tries to Be Phil for a Day & Learns How Much His Dad Carried for Decades

Summary

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Unashamed with the Robertson Family

Ep 1237 | Jase Tries to Be Phil for a Day & Learns How Much His Dad Carried for Decades
Date: December 30, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the Robertson clan dives deep into the themes of restoration, faith, and the greater purpose of humanity through both their lived experiences and an in-depth study of John 21. The central narrative is a combination of personal stories—like Jase’s stint in Phil’s shoes wrangling beavers—and a rich, multi-layered Bible discussion focusing on Jesus’ post-resurrection appearances, with particular emphasis on what it means to be restored, renewed, and called to God’s work. Along the way, they draw connections between biblical stories and their own family and Louisiana life, providing a thought-provoking, lively, and humorous look at Christian doctrine.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Unashamed Nation and Family Updates (01:06–08:55)

• The team welcomes guests from Pennsylvania, narrating stories of cross-country deer hunts and gifts of local specialties—illustrating how their audience “gets” the unique blend of faith and Southern culture at the heart of the show.
• Discussion shifts to the PhD diet, clarifying it stands for “performance health and diet,” not a degree—as previously assumed by several.
• Celebrations of weight loss victories pepper the conversation with humor:
  • Allen: “I lost a chunky middle schooler, 75 pounds.” (03:03)
  • Jason: “Probably about 38 [pounds].” (03:15)
• Jase recounts a physically taxing beaver-dam-busting excursion reminiscent of Phil's days, noting how beavers’ engineering marvels testify to God’s creative power.

2. Lessons from Beaver Wars: “Evidence of God” (04:05–08:31)

• Allen details the ongoing battle with beavers, describing their construction as “an infrastructure like we do with wire and concrete.” (05:38)
• Philosophical riffs on the ingenuity and persistence of beavers naturally segue to meditations on God as the ultimate Creator and the wonders of His design.

3. Transition to John 21: Restoration & the Greater Biblical Arc (10:26–12:13)

• The conversation signals a shift from seasonal updates to the study of John 21, noting they are arriving at the “caboose” of their series on the Gospel of John.
• The group references the Emmaus Road episode (Luke 24) and how these “Jedi tricks” of Jesus’ post-resurrection appearances offer deep insight into the new creation.

4. The Theological Weight of "Restoration Plus" (12:14–24:05)

• Allen: Challenges the adequacy of “restoration” – “Restoration really is not a big enough word.” (12:21)
• Explores the biblical transition from innocence in Eden to the irreversible triumph over sin in the New Heavens and New Earth:
  • Jason (17:26): “... the difference is Eden was not consummated. So when you think about your body... the body that was sown, perishable, was raised imperishable.”
• Allen: Highlights Jesus’ defeat not just of sin, but the powers behind it (Colossians 2, Hebrews 2, Ephesians 3) (20:08–22:09).

5. Post-Resurrection Appearances: Restoring Hearts and Leaders (22:24–27:04)

• Detailed discussion of how Jesus’ interactions with Peter, Thomas, and others show that His restoration is not “rehabilitation,” but a promotion to greater responsibility and purpose.
• The Emmaus road narrative is dissected for its revelation:
  • Zach (23:08): “We had hoped that he was going to restore Israel ... their faiths were downcast.”
  • Allen: “Did not our hearts burn within us while he opened the Scriptures to us?” (24:02)
• Jason (25:43): “Luke 24 is a very important passage because what it shows us is that we really should read the Bible through the lens of Jesus.”

6. Creation, Work, and the True Meaning of “Rest” (30:00–41:22)

• Allen & Zach: The biblical motif of seven, rest, and work is unpacked:
  • “When he said he ‘put’ him in the garden, it’s a synonym for rest.” (30:00)
  • Work is not the curse; it’s to be in God’s presence and participate in His good creation.
• Jason (43:01): “The word is to rest would be more when he rests him in the garden ... to abide, to be present.”
• The difference between toiling for survival (post-Fall) and working in God-ordained rest is likened to children sorting Halloween candy for joy, not survival (40:49).

7. From Genesis to John 21: “Better Than Before” (47:05–55:43)

• John 21 is introduced as the “Restoration of Peter”—but the panel agrees this is “restoration plus,” not a return to status quo, but a launching point for greater service.
• Callbacks abound:
  • The miraculous catch of fish mirrors Peter’s initial call (Luke 5).
  • Jesus’ breakfast of fish over coals echoes Peter’s denial “around a fire of burning coals.”
  • The net does not tear this time, symbolizing the completeness and fruitfulness of the post-resurrection commission.
  • Jason (54:33): “For all humans out there, the possibility to have breakfast with someone who was dead should light your fire.”
  • Allen (55:28): “One of the themes of the Bible is heaven and earth coming back together ... you see that through a human, the son of God, Jesus, offering hope to humanity.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Allen, on Beaver Dams & God’s Design (05:38):
  “They go cut poles, put those down first. Then they start adding mud ... it becomes an infrastructure like we do with wire and concrete. Give it a couple days and it becomes a wall. I mean, it looks like just land with a bunch of sticks ... that’s the evidence of God.”

• Jason, on Restoration vs. Glorification (15:42):
  “As I matured, I started to focus ... on sanctification, which is kind of an idea of restoration ... but now in my later years ... on what’s called consummation or glorification ... The body that was sown, perishable, was raised imperishable.”

• Zach, on Resurrection Hope (54:33):
  “For all humans out there, the possibility to have breakfast with someone who was dead should light your fire.”

• Allen, on Christ-Centered Scripture Reading (35:28):
  “I would argue that you can’t truly find coherence in the scripture as a whole, in any part of it, unless you’re seeing Christ in it. Christ is the fulfillment of all of it.”

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Key Timestamps

• 01:06–08:55: Opening stories, diet discussion, beaver dam life lessons
• 10:26–12:13: Transition to Gospel of John wrap-up, the motif of resurrection appearances
• 12:14–24:05: Restoration vs. the consummation of creation—“restoration plus”
• 22:24–27:04: Restoration encounters post-resurrection; Emmaus road discussion
• 30:00–41:22: “Rest” and “Work” in Genesis and their symbolic significance
• 47:05–55:43: John 21, the restoration of Peter, callbacks to Luke 5 and earlier Gospel themes

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Closing Thought

The episode deftly blends Louisiana storytelling, practical Christian living, and robust biblical theology. By tracing the thread from Genesis to John 21, the Robertsons help listeners see that God’s work in restoration is not just making things “like new”—it’s a glorifying upgrade, a consummation of His ultimate design. As they say: it’s “restoration plus,” and it’s an invitation to join Jesus in the ongoing, ever-bettering work of faith, hope, and love.

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Transcript

[Jason]

So good, so good. So good.

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[Jason]

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[Ministry Announcer]

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[Depop Parent]

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[Allen]

I am unashamed. What about you?

[Zach]

Welcome back to Unashamed. I always like it. We have a live studio audience. We've got a couple here from Pennsylvania. And the one thing I love about.

[Allen]

I thought it was Ohio.

[Zach]

Pennsylvania.

[Allen]

Oh, Pennsylvania, Ohio.

[Zach]

They're in the neighborhood. Chase is always just a little off. But anyway, Unashamed Nation. When folks come through here, I love it. I get a message from whom I call my fat counselor lovingly. It doesn't mean she's fat. It means that I was fat. And so she helped me to not be. Her name is Heather, and so she's also these folks counselor. And so through our counselor, we connected for them. Coming through, but they're coming through because Laura killed her first white tailed deer in Texas. So they were going, it's her birthday this week. And so they were coming through to kill a deer. And I was like, only an unashamed nation do you have husbands taking their wives thousands of miles away to kill things? So I like that. I think that's pretty good confirmation that our. Our audience gets us.

[Allen]

Well, once you eat one, you see why that catches on. Exactly.

[Zach]

And so they also brought a bag full of Pennsylvania products that neither they can eat nor I can eat, but they're being eaten by people in my family. So I just want to say thanks for them being here. And someone asked the question Today, what is PhD? Because, you know, it's been the diet we've been on. So I texted Dr. Ashley because I've never asked that question. I've been on this thing a year and I've never said, why did you call it PhD? I assumed it was because she has a PhD, but she said it stands for performance health and diet. Oh, PhD. A play on words.

[Allen]

I thought you were getting a PhD in weight loss, but.

[Zach]

Well, that's what I thought. That's why I call her Dr. Frankenstein. Dr. So. So the couple that's here, they lost a sack of corn, about 50 to 55 pounds. Yeah, I lost a chunky middle schooler, 75 pounds. Zach, how much did you lose? This?

[Jason]

Probably about 38.

[Zach]

38. So I don't know.

[Allen]

What is 38? That means he's not sure.

[Jason]

Yeah, 38.

[Allen]

Well, if. Let me you a real life. You know, forget all this. If you went and did what I did yesterday, I probably lost five pounds. I'm just guessing because I'm not keeping up with it, but I busted a beaver down.

[Zach]

That's the old school.

[Allen]

Louisiana is the land of extremes. And about three days ago, it was 20 degrees.

[Zach]

Yeah, yesterday it was 70, and today it's back to. It was 37 when I woke up this morning.

[Allen]

Oh, I know. In 24 hours it went from 20 to 70, then another 24 hours back to 38, and now it's about 50.

[Zach]

Is it any wonder we're coughing and hacking in here?

[Allen]

I actually battled mosquitoes, ants, I was bitten everywhere. And of course, I'm battling these beavers because now Phil's with the Lord.

[Ministry Announcer]

So.

[Zach]

So.

[Allen]

And I'm sure if he's aware of what's happening, he's doing his little laugh. Because these beavers. You're talking about the evidence of God. Yeah, I mean, we busted this dam to get water in the first split. We're in the split of duck season, which it opens back up tomorrow. So this is the second duck season eve that I find myself with. Y'.

[Ministry Announcer]

All.

[Zach]

Are you as excited as you were on the first one?

[Allen]

Well, I'm not. I'm not as excited because I went down there yesterday to see there's no ducks and very little water, which is so unusual for Louisiana. It will not substantially rain. So I'm having to break a dam for a little lake that my dad made to get some water. But we had busted that in the first split, so in 10 days, built it back. No, they didn't just build it back. They built a four foot wall that at some point, because every time I'm moving, I'm in pain. So if I'm grimacing, that's the reason I almost could not break the dam. I mean, I was just.

[Zach]

You almost gave up?

[Allen]

Almost gave up. I just could not believe that These little.

[Zach]

Dad always say that if the corps of engineers wanted to learn how to build things, go watch beaver.

[Allen]

They put big. I mean, they go cut poles, put those down first. Then they start adding mud. Then they take smaller branches with anything with leaves on it, put that in there, then add mud. Oh, it just. It becomes an infrastructure like we do with wire and concrete. And give it a couple of days and it becomes a wall. I mean, it looks like it's just land with a bunch of sticks on top is just. It's kind of like they make it pretty at the end in their eyes. So I got it. And so I told Jay this morning he was going deer hunting down there. I said, first thing you do is go down there and see if they built that back. And he. What do you call it when you can talk to someone and see FaceTime? Yeah, we did the FaceTime thing, which was weird because we were talking.

[Zach]

What's funny is that I knew what he was talking about.

[Allen]

And then all of a sudden I said, well, how are you calling me while we're talking? He's like, just click the button. Well, then I could see him. I said, oh, well, he looked rough this morning. I don't know what he did yesterday.

[Zach]

I know he walked up there, he's going down there rolling around with these young people at that Jiu Jitsu mat. He comes in, he just. He's like, you today. He's barely moving. He's like, yeah, you need to come try Jiu Jitsu. I was like, you're not presenting a poster that I want to be a part of. I'm going to tell you right now.

[Allen]

He showed me the video as I'm talking to him, and the wall was back. I mean, I did that Yesterday at about 3:00'.

[Jason]

Clock.

[Allen]

Overnight.

[Jason]

Overnight.

[Allen]

It looked like I had never been there. You could see all the debris on both sides that I tore down. It was all back. And they didn't use the debris because I was like, did they use the stuff that he's like, nope, all new stuff. It's got to be an army. There's got to be a hundred of them.

[Zach]

Well, dad said they have meetings and they have large corporate gatherings. And he had a whole like. But now you understand why it kind of drove Dad a little bit mad trying to fight the beaver.

[Allen]

It actually just made me realize, you know, it's the evidence of God that came from nothing.

[Zach]

The original engineer.

[Allen]

Nothing is something because that couldn't have happened. I mean, they're master engineers. So he said, well, he was taking off his outer jacket, and I was like, well, let me let you get to that. Which won't be as hard as what I did yesterday. But actually, the water had raised substantially. Just me doing that in two, probably two hours it took me. Then I walked about three miles scouting and had a lot of close encounters with deer. Yeah, in the duck hole. So all we got is deer. But that's how you get in shape, was my point.

[Zach]

Back to the PhD. So, Zach, I got several texts as well as our couple. That's here today because Maddie had dropped the Lisa Harper episode we did a couple of months ago because kind of out of sequence, because we filmed those in Nashville. I don't know if y' all remember that. She told the story about her daughter, and it was fantastic because I've gotten probably six texts from people that listen to the podcast that were like, have this woman on more.

[Allen]

Oh, that's what I thought.

[Zach]

Yeah, they were right.

[Allen]

She needs to come back.

[Jason]

So my son Max is wanting to get married. He's engaged.

[Ministry Announcer]

And he asked me just yesterday about buying a house. And you know what I told him? I said, if you're going to buy a house, you got to call my friends Andrew and Todd. Andrew and Todd. You got to call my friends Andrew and Todd. Because if buying a house is one of the most important decisions you'll ever make, for the first time in years, buyers finally had the upper hand, which means there's more inventory, which means that you have more negotiating power and less competition. But this will not last long. As soon as the feds cut the rates, what happens is buyer demand, it pops up. And you know what that means? Prices go up with it, and sellers then have the advantage. So reach out today. I told Max this. Reach out today and get approved for mortgage financing with Andrew and [e-mail] or call Triple 8, Triple 8, 1172. I know Andrew and Todd personally, met these guys at a worship event. They're the real deal. They love Jesus. It's important to work with someone who shares those same values.

[Allen]

Hold.

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[Zach]

So we got to get Lisa back on. And because she has her, push some.

[Allen]

Buttons and make some calls, and let's do that. Well, we got what we have to make happen is because we're at the.

[Zach]

We're at the end of the line of John. We have gotten to the caboose.

[Allen]

I know it's been a long process, but we wanted to give you some insight and try to give you the view from the beginning, since that's where John started.

[Zach]

So these are the last two episodes of 2025. These, these, the ones we're doing today are going to release right before New Year's.

[Allen]

Well, we do have a couple bonus ones we're doing.

[Zach]

Yeah, well, we're doing a couple to start next year with a very special guest. Do we tell her or do we just let that.

[Allen]

Can we tease that. Oh, they finger over their lips.

[Zach]

We have a guest coming in that'll start.

[Allen]

I'm actually taking them duck hunting, so it should be interesting.

[Zach]

So that's going to be fun. So we need to. We need to tie off John 21. We need to get there today. We left off, obviously, with the last appearance to Thomas in John 20. I did want to mention. Because we didn't. I don't think we talked about. Maybe we just referenced it, but there were a couple of other appearances that are not mentioned by John. And one of those is in Luke 24. And that was the two disciples on the road to Emmaus.

[Allen]

Yeah, that's a good one.

[Zach]

Which is a good one. And so I thought we'd at least need to mention it that that happened and. Cause it was some other. It was some other really cool Jesus. Jedi tricks.

[Allen]

Well, I mean, it shows you the new body, which I guess in my study for what we were going to talk about today, I think we tend to think, you know, God changes things back to the way they were. We use words like restoration and repentance. And you make this change, but you got to remember he's. He makes it. Whatever he creates, whatever the new creation infers, it's better.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Allen]

Than it was before. And I think this ties.

[Zach]

So you're right. Restoration really is not a big enough word.

[Allen]

Yeah, I don't like that word because.

[Zach]

It'S bigger than that.

[Allen]

We use it. You're just. And I mean, there's biblical evidence of that. Oh, yeah. I mean, just think about his body that he received.

[Zach]

But you almost need to add a plus like restoration plus. I mean, because it's.

[Allen]

Because in Luke 24. I'm glad you brought this up because I was thinking about this. Kind of the story of Jesus blows your mind. I mean, no matter how long you've been a believer, your mind continues to get blown because you're thinking, okay, he becomes a human. God becomes a human. John 1:14. The Word becomes flesh. And he lives 33 years on the earth, roughly three years public. Then he comes back and we made this on the last podcast, this analogy. His resurrected body was better than Lazarus, which he conducted through the power of the Holy Spirit and the Word, which is a constant theme in the first creation. He was just speaking, and it was happening. It's like, let there be light. You know, if I say, let there be light, somebody needs to get over by a light switch. And then it goes to the power company. We need some support. But system.

[Zach]

We got to have a system.

[Allen]

But I. You know, I think people who are not believers, they have trouble with that. But he's a. He's a creator. And even I brought up that about the be the beavers. I mean, that just is. We try to scientifically explain all that, but, like, somebody created a beaver with a mind of a engineer that's outstanding. And without. Just think. They don't have any tools besides claws and teeth.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Allen]

And that's it.

[Zach]

And we joke about them having a meeting, but instinctively they just go do that. And they knew that you tore it out. Someone was watching. Someone knew and alerted the crew.

[Allen]

Well, just think about tonight.

[Zach]

We're all on. We're not off.

[Jason]

Time to go back to work.

[Zach]

Time to go back to work. Well, how do they know that?

[Allen]

I jokingly told Jay, I said, you know what I thought about? I was like, if you went and got some of your buddies or the people who hang around, you know, Duck Commander and the people we take duck hunting, and y' all were to go build that without any tools, just using your teeth and your hands and no. No money being spent. You just go out there and take the environment. I said, I really believe the beavers will whoop you. And he said, what are you trying to say? I said, y' all need to step it up, do something. It'll be a great episode.

[Jason]

You said something just a few minutes ago that is. I think it's a big, big, big point that we overlook a lot. And I've used that term restoration quite a bit. In fact, I had a company, used to have a company name that.

[Zach]

It was our company, Zach. You and I had it together.

[Allen]

You named a company, right?

[Zach]

You said Restoration Pernation.

[Allen]

And I said, than I have one.

[Zach]

Called LA Restored, which is Lisa and Allen Restored. So you know what?

[Allen]

You should have named it better than Restoration.

[Jason]

If I think about my journey as a Christian, my initial entry into Christ I was obsessed with, with the, the justification part.

[Ministry Announcer]

That's all we talked about, right?

[Jason]

This is what I used to be. I got saved. I'm not guilty. And everything was about not being guilty, which is part of it. Then as I matured, I started to focus a whole lot more on my sanctification, which is kind of an idea of restoration that I'm being restored back to. I would say this, I'm being restored back to my original position in creation, which is, which was innocent. And. But now in my later years of the faith, I'm focusing a lot more on what's called consummation or glorification. And when you mentioned that it is true, I was thinking, what is the difference between Eden and even the body that we, that humanity had in Eden versus, like the second coming? Like the, the, the kingdom that's, that's coming at the end will be consummated. And one of the. I thought about this verse in Revelation 21, because that's the picture of, of, of this, of the, you know, the, the new heavens and the new earth. Revelation 21, verse 27 says something really, really interesting. And it does show us a big difference between Eden and the one that we're awaiting, which is the garden that we're waiting to live in forever. And it says nothing unclean will ever enter it. So when you think about Eden, Eden was awesome. It was, in a way, kind of a form of utopia because everything was innocent and there was no sin and there was no fall. But the problem was, is that that wasn't permanent because sin actually did enter into Eden in the form of the serpent. And then Adam and Eve believed the serpent's lie and, and they ate the fruit and became sinners. And then Eden was destroyed and then death entered the world. What's going to be different about the, you know, what's going to be different about the kingdom or the new heaven and the new earth is that death itself will be destroyed. That it will be impossible. It will be impossible for evil or sin or anything unclean to enter into that new sanctuary, that new garden that we'll live in forever. So the difference is one of the. Eden was not consummated. It was innocent. Yes. But it wasn't consummated. So when you think about your body, your physical bodies, the reason why Christ's physical body was different. Yeah, he wasn't restored back to the same exact type of body that he had before his death, because the body that was sown, perishable was raised imperishable so whatever came out of the grave, it was a totally different type of body that transcended anything that happened before. So we're not returning back to the past. This is a progressive thing that's moving into something incredible.

[Ministry Announcer]

Yeah. When you really think about it, by 2050, you're going to have more than.

[Jason]

A third of the world's population, or at least young people are going to live in the continent of Africa, while.

[Ministry Announcer]

Only less than 4% are going to.

[Jason]

Live here in the in the U.S.

[Ministry Announcer]

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[Jason]

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[Ministry Announcer]

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[Jason]

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[Ministry Announcer]

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[Allen]

So see we do agree and I will a couple points in there. That's also why Jesus defeated the powers that help contribute to bring sin into the world. That's why there's so much, especially in thinking Colossians 2, where on the cross he disarmed the powers Hebrews 2, which we always mention that he destroyed the power of the evil one over death, who held people in slavery by their fear of death. So I mean that's just neglected in modern Christian teaching. The Bible is filled with that. The book of Ephesians how many times does he say, our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against rulers and powers and authorities? You know, in Ephesians 3, he's like, the whole church's job is to speak this truth to the powers in the heavenly places. That's Ephesians 3. So I'm glad you brought that up. We're tracking. I'm currently. This is not a rabbit hole I want to go down, but I'm introducing a future rabbit hole. Coming to a podcast near you because, Zach, I did the same thing, went back to the first creation and mainly I got that idea about this idea of restoration being better than what we can wrap our head around. And I think this encounter that Jesus is going to have with Peter proves what I'm saying, because in his conversation, it's pretty much one of the worst sins you could do is to deny Jesus as the Christ and your affiliation with him, which he did three times, which I know we're going to get to this later, but I think we would respond as humans thinking, all right, here's what you do, Peter, go through a six month course. You know, I mean, you have to be rehabilitated. We would start there, but Jesus is, He's asking him.

[Zach]

We'd have him in a 12 step group.

[Allen]

Yeah, that's right. You have literally done the opposite of what I came here to do. And yet he immediately has this. We'll get into the details. This conversation of do you love me?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Allen]

And. But what is he telling him? Go feed my lambs. And he's, go feed my shepherding. He's back to, I got a job for you to do. And it's the idea of you're going to be way better than you were before. And you've been following me all along.

[Jason]

But.

[Allen]

And I think he did that with Thomas, he did that with Mary because she was, you know, they all had.

[Zach]

Their struggles, the two guys on the road to Emmaus, same thing. Because remember they. He asked him, he said, what are you. What are you doing? What are you talking about? He just kind of appears and all of a sudden he's a guy walking alongside him and he's like, what are you guys talking about? You hadn't heard? I mean, there's some stuff happening around here. And he said, what? What things? And then they tell him, well, those.

[Allen]

Three words, when they say, we had hoped that he was going to restore Israel, bring the kingdom to Israel, so their faiths were downcast.

[Zach]

And then he said his thing in verse 25, he says, how Foolish you are. And how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken. Did not the Christ, the Messiah, the anointed one, have to suffer these things and then enter his glory? And then it says he took from that statement, he went all the way through Moses, the prophets, and he reminded them all the things that were said about him.

[Allen]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And then they wind up. They're like, we want to hear some more. Will you come eat with us? And once again, he says yes to a meal. To your point, Jason, probably fish. And then they were talking and they looked at him and their eyes were opened and they saw him and they realized it was him. And guess what happened?

[Allen]

You know what else? Their hearts burned.

[Zach]

Yeah, exactly.

[Allen]

And then their feet started moving. They started running. I did a sermon one time on the road to Emmaus, or the hike to Jerusalem, because they were sad on the road to Emmaus, oh, Jesus is dead. It's over. We thought he was going to do all this, but then they run at night.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Allen]

After they.

[Zach]

And you've been there, it's uphill to Jerusalem.

[Allen]

It's a good question. What road are you on? Are you walking, saying, boy, I tell you it's over, or are you moping.

[Zach]

On the road to Emmaus? Are you running on the road to.

[Allen]

Jerusalem, hollering, he's on.

[Jason]

That's a great line, though. He said, their hearts did not. Our hearts burn in us while he opened the Scriptures to us. And I think that you read that Emmaus road story and you read the whole thing. Even past that, when he ends up up in the room and he's addressing the disciples, there is a nugget of wisdom. Not just wisdom. There is a. It's more than a nugget. It is a core anchor truth of how I think we get a picture of how we're supposed to read the Scriptures. I've mentioned this on the podcast before, but Luke 24 is a very important passage that we should all study because what it shows us is that we really should read the Bible through the lens of Jesus. And what that means is when you go back and read the Old Testament. I was preaching on Isaiah one time in our church, and this guy came up to me, said, your hermeneutics off. And the word hermeneutic just means the way you interpret the Scriptures, the way that the method that you use to interpret Scripture is off. And I said, what do you mean? He said, you keep interpreting the prophet Isaiah, but you're doing it through the lens of the New Testament. And that's not a good hermeneutic. And I'm like, agree to disagree. I mean, I think your hermeneutic is off. Because when you read what's happening here, how did Jesus convince these people that the Christ had to raise from the dead?

[Ministry Announcer]

Because think about what they're saying here.

[Jason]

They thought, we thought this guy was going to be the hope for Israel. Well, he actually was the hope for Israel. But the problem is they didn't really understand who Israel was. They didn't have a proper eschatology. They didn't understand the whole thing. So what does Jesus do? He pulls out the Old Testament scriptures. He literally pulls out the Torah. He pulls out the prophet Isaiah, he pulls out the prophet Daniel, he pulls out the prophet Ezekiel.

[Ministry Announcer]

I don't know where he went, but.

[Jason]

You know, he's in the Old Testament because when it says he, he pulled out the scriptures, it's not talking about the New Testament because the New Testament had not been written yet. So Jesus is making the case for Jesus with the Old Testament. He's showing them from the Old Testament why the Christ had to rise from the dead. Same thing with Paul in First Corinthians 15. What does he say? That Christ died, he was buried, and he was raised according to what? The scriptures. What scriptures?

[Zach]

These are Hebrew scriptures. Remember Zach, the first time he went to the synagogue in one of his early first appearances, Jesus in his ministry, Remember he was reading from Isaiah and guess who he read about? Himself.

[Jason]

He read about himself.

[Allen]

Well, who did he. What did he bring up when he was tempted by the evil one back to the powers? That's never mentioned in the temptation. He's taking him on. Who's going to be the king here? And he starts quoting Scriptures.

[Zach]

Yeah, every time.

[Allen]

Which is what? A while ago I teased my rabbit hole and I never said what it was, but I made a connection with this idea about restoration being better. And Zach immediately went back to Genesis 1. And that was what I was going to tease because the creation story itself, from a literary standpoint, having the seven days and then God resting. Well, that's the rabbit hole I went. Because I realized, and due to poor translation by the niv, sorry, I'm still using it. But what I didn't realize is when it says in Genesis where it says God put Adam in the garden to work it, that word put, it's a synonym for rest.

[Jason]

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[Zach]

So, Zach, I mean, throughout my entire ministry, pornography has always been an issue. You see the sort of mind rot that comes about because of the. And it's all a lie. It's just this based on. It's not real. It's not real relationship.

[Allen]

Well, and now due to technology, it's so much easier to access in younger ages too. It has snowballed into an avalanche and it has relationship consequences.

[Zach]

Absolutely.

[Jason]

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[Allen]

So he rested him in the garden. And you say, well wait a minute, if God's resting and man's resting, how come he rested him in there to actually work the garden? And then as I started this rabbit hole, I realized that Noah's name means rest. And when the ark rested on the land, all this, it keeps coming up. And so what I found was this symbolic language of the number seven. Just think how many times that's used in the Bible. Oh yeah, I'm studying all this. What I have found has been fascinating. But. And that's coming to you at some point because what's going to happen is it started changing my definitions of like work. Like that he, he put Adam, he rested him in the garden to work it. Well, it's not the kind of work that was going to happen post sin where then he's working to survive.

[Zach]

Because now death, well, now he's fighting. It's like you and the beavers.

[Allen]

Yeah, right.

[Jason]

Well, because work, because work is not the curse.

[Allen]

We gotta remember work is not the curse. And think of all the New Testament when it'll go through our experience of transformation. Think Ephesians 2, where he's like, you were under the work of the evil one. You know, the first three verses, you're gratifying the sinful nature. But then all of a sudden, God demonstrated his love. He poured his grace out on us and made us alive. We've talked about all this. Then it gets down to verse 10 so that we could work.

[Zach]

We are God's workmanship, created to do good works.

[Allen]

It's a different kind of work that's never been pursued, but, oh, I'm on it. Because when you get to Hebrews 3 and 4, which when y' all say Hebrews 3 and 4, your mind probably goes blank. But it goes back to the first creation and the seven days where it said and God rested. And now it's introducing Jesus as offering this new kind of rest. Well, what rest is this that you speak? And that's just a teaser of that and infused with the number 7 being used all over the place as this symbolic language. Because the more I got into it, I mean, I realized the first sentence in Hebrew, I know this is going to be a deep thought. You might not have ever heard this. I never heard this. The first sentence has seven Hebrew words. So if you go read the first sentence of the Bible in the beginning, God created, you're like, oh, there's way more seven. What are we talking about? 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. But in Hebrew, it's seven. And the middle one, which is usually the focus because there's three words on both sides, is kind of our word for the. But in the Hebrew language, it is the first letter of the Hebrew Alphabet and the last. And you're like, well, what's your point? I don't really have one. All I know is that when they wrote this, it's way deeper.

[Zach]

At least he was honest enough to say he didn't have a point.

[Allen]

I'm saying it's a way deeper sentence than you realize, because you're saying in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. It's like an ongoing thing that has a completion and a beginning and a middle without it really coming across that way.

[Zach]

Well, let's face is the greatest statement ever made because it is the question of existence.

[Allen]

But I'm just saying it led me to notice all these literary patterns and let me just give you a couple and then you comment on it. Zach. What I didn't realize is, like, post, post, sin. Now, this is not the number seven. But I just want to Bring this to your attention. And I said I wasn't going to go down this road.

[Zach]

We're going.

[Allen]

I'm introduced.

[Zach]

It sounds like we're going, man.

[Allen]

Because I want to make one point that I haven't made about the creation and the new creation being actually better. Because that's what God does to Zach's point. But there's curses, as mentioned five times. You know, remember when he said, cursed be you, he told the evil one. He told Adam and Eve. But then there's a couple more, like in chapter five, Cain, who killed Abel, Remember there was a curse and then the land of Canaan. Well, when he comes to Abraham in chapter 12 and is going to give him this promise, well, he lists five blessings that will come from this seven line paragraph that has seven lines in it. It's almost like, okay, I created life in seven days. Then we turn from it and then let's start this project again. Then you have Noah with the rest, you know, and he's trusting God. Then you have Abraham. You're going to see this pattern repeat itself all the way. Because I'm in Leviticus now, so I hadn't even gotten to the New Testament. But you're going to see it all the way to when Jesus comes. And each time it's pointing towards something that's better, which then you get to the book of Hebrews. What's the whole theme? Jesus is just better.

[Zach]

He's better.

[Allen]

And so he goes back to all this history, all this symbolic language, all of what he did. And he's like, now look what's offered. And we're just seeing the goodness of that here in the book of John and in Luke. I mean, just look at his body, his human body that came out of the tomb. It's just better. He can disguise himself, he can disappear.

[Jason]

He can levitate the problem. Sometimes though, you hear that and you think that the old was bad and that the new is good. I like to think of it more as a progression of an unfolding of this story of covenant grace that starts at the beginning and the thread runs all the way through. So it's not like we get to the New Testament and God's like, oh man, I really messed up on the Old Testament. That whole law thing didn't work. So what am I going to do? And he's wringing his hands, oh, you know what? I'm going to send Jesus now and he'll fix everything that was messed up in the past. I think that's the wrong way of viewing it. In fact, I would argue that you can't truly find coherence in the scripture as a whole, in any part of it, unless you're seeing Christ in it. Christ is the fulfillment of all of it. So it's more of fulfillment. So when we get to. To the new heaven and the new earth, it's more than just better than the past. It's the fulfillment of everything because Christ is the centerpiece. So Christ is the fulfillment. So then that affects the way we read the Scripture. And then all of a sudden, if you start to employ this hermeneutic in your reading of the Bible, what will happen is it will begin to open up and unlock and these obscure verses that you may have discarded in the past, like the. I'll give you an example. All those instructions that I've skipped over for years about the construction of the tabernacle and the temple, I just, when I do my Bible readings, I just read through that because that stuff doesn't really matter now. All of a sudden, now that I'm reading the Scripture through the lens of Christ, even the most mundane details begin to awaken and to paint this incredible picture that literally will bring you to tears and seeing the beauty of the Gospel in it. So you could read Christ in all of.

[Allen]

Well, there's no argument with that. You don't have to make an argument. We're in total agreement. It's a process is what I was saying. But think about Matthew 11:28, where he said, come to me all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Does that sound familiar? So my whole point was that when God created the earth in six days and you go through the every day, it was good. He got to humans, it was very good. But then when it says he rested well, there's no. It doesn't have the line. Then there was day and then there was night. So it was the purpose of the first creation. This is my conclusion of this whole little teaser on that was for humans to reign and rest with God and time stood still. And so when you're eventually going to get to the Sabbath, which the Sabbath was not commanded till way later in Exodus, it was a sign of that act. It was a symbolic time standstill reflect. God is the one providing. Now when sin happened, you know, that messed up. That was messed up. So when you think about what Jesus is offering in the new rest, it's the same thing. That's why he said it's finished. You know, on the cross, he comes back from the dead, we get the Holy Spirit. And we're now reigning and resting in Jesus as part of the new creation.

[Zach]

And working.

[Allen]

Yeah, and working. But it's a different kind of work. We'll get to that. That's the most confusing part of it, which is why I think people have trouble going from Genesis to Revelation with that idea.

[Zach]

But just.

[Allen]

That's why I wanted to say in Genesis 2, look it up in the Hebrew lexicon, when he said he put him in the garden. It's the synonym for he rested him in the garden to work it. And I heard a really good illustration of this. It's kind of silly, but. But it's a really good illustration because you say, well, how were. What kind of work was it if it was. Now just think, no sin has happened yet. And the illustration I heard, which I think is a good one, he said, it's kind of like when kids. Tim Mackey made this, or I think his sidekick did. He said, so what you're saying. Because they were discussing that verse, and he said, it's kind of like when your kids go trick or treating and they get all these gifts from people and then they go home and they organize that candy for days. Tim Matty bust out laughing because he was like, that's it. You didn't do anything to get that. But you're organizing it. And I think being in the garden that God provided, whatever that work at it was, it was different than when the thorns and the briars came and.

[Zach]

The fight for survival.

[Allen]

The fight for survival. And I thought, that's a pretty good illustration.

[Zach]

All of a sudden, the kids disobey. They're killing each other out of jealousy.

[Allen]

Maybe a poor illustration, but it proves the point that there's. And it's like, we work. Just think, like going back to the Ephesians 2:10, Are we really working for anything? I mean, we're working for the Lord, for the kingdom, but it's not. It's just being a house for the Holy Spirit working through you, right? That you're just trying to not get.

[Zach]

In the way to Zach's word. It's a sanctified life is what it looks like.

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[Jason]

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[Zach]

So yeah, so Rocket Money would is a big help for me days because all my grandkids tend to subscribe to things, you know, mine are old enough where they subscribe to things that I don't know about, but they're on my accounts, so. And I don't know much about it. So thank you, Rocket Money for alerting me to everything my grandkids kids are doing and signing up things on my behalf.

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[Jason]

The word is to rest would be more when he rests him in the garden. I mean he did work in the garden, so he's clearly not. It's not the opposite of work. The rest is to abide to be present. So he's putting him in this place to live is what it is. And so the curse, you have to remember the curse was never worked. The curse was that by your work now by the sweat of your brow, you'll work the land, but it'll produce thorns and thistles for you. But that. So the curse was that it will produce thorns and thistles. That's the curse.

[Ministry Announcer]

That's why.

[Jason]

What did Christ wear as a crown when he was crucified? He wore the curse. He wore the thorns and the thistles on his head because he was becoming victorious over that. So when you think about the call of humanity and you can look, this is another three liner motif that goes all throughout Scripture that we're called to be fruitful, multiply, cultivate the earth, subdue it, and then have dominion over it. So think about that. What man was initially instructed when he was rest in the garden, what was he rested in there to do well. He was put in there to cultivate, to subdue and to have dominion. Be fruitful, multiply, but why subdue?

[Ministry Announcer]

That's an interesting thought.

[Allen]

That's why I said, reign over the beast of the earth, the animals. And I would say to reflect God's image.

[Zach]

But I like that idea about relationship. Because another illustration is like this last week, since we've been home every day, I'm cooking something in the kitchen now. I'm cooking things that I'm not eating myself. I'm cooking for everybody else. But I'm at rest in my home. I got my Christmas music playing in the background.

[Allen]

You're settled?

[Zach]

I'm settled. I'm at rest. It's the place I want to be. It's during the holidays, my favorite time of year. I'm cooking like crazy. So, man. Oh, you like a workhouse. But I'm doing it all because I love it, because other people enjoy the fruit of it. And so it's kind of.

[Allen]

The house has been built. I think it's a good word, nesting, settling in the presence of God, him using you.

[Zach]

Right?

[Jason]

It's enjoyment.

[Ministry Announcer]

It's an.

[Jason]

It's an enjoyment of. Of the world that he created when it's rightly ordered.

[Zach]

I agree.

[Jason]

That's what you're setting in when we say rest. It does actually, though, work in participation with cultivating, work that when you think about that word subdue, what is there to be subdued? I mean, the picture there is that you have the garden, but then outside of the garden, which is the rest of the globe, it wasn't subdued yet. And so we can only imagine what was beyond the perimeters of the garden. But the instruction was essentially, I want you to take this garden here, and I want you to make the entire globe the garden. And if the garden is the temple, if the garden is the place where God dwells with his human creatures, then what he's saying is, I want you to make the entire cosmos my home so I can dwell with my people. And that was the initial call of humanity.

[Zach]

Well, you'll see it all throughout, Jaz. You'll get there after Leviticus, because when you get to the promised Land, you remember what God told Moses to tell the people. He said, you're going to pick fruit from trees you didn't plant?

[Allen]

Well, right.

[Zach]

You're going to.

[Allen]

And even the temple itself. And the Sabbath time stands still. And the. And the temple was about space. God space and human space coming together. Because we get so hung up on what we do in space. And we just are in denial about time. We fight it. We use all these little phrases. We've talked about that before, you know, I'm going to save some time or. And I think that's what's behind the idea of the reminder of the Sabbath, which we'll get to. But I think we need to introduce John 21 or we're never going to get there.

[Zach]

Let me steer us back to. But it does tie in, Jace, because many times this text is called the Restoration of Peter. And we know it's more than that. To your point, it's not only him now getting back in the relationship with Christ, but then also him laying out exactly where he's going to go.

[Allen]

And also don't discount the fact that he said this is the first day of the week. He said it twice. You had Pilate saying, here's the man. Well, that's on the sixth day. You have Jesus on the day that would have been the Sabbath being in the grave. And then he comes back on the first day of the week. And I'm saying it's fine to connect this as a new creation because he's introducing a new mode of being available for humans.

[Zach]

In fact, ironically, you remember in between the two appearances that we talked about last time, it was first day of the week, he appears to the disciples. And then he waited a whole week until the first day of the week again to appear to Thomas seven days later. Seven days later, exactly. For the last.

[Allen]

Why do we have the seven signs leading up to this? We're going to go through that at some point.

[Zach]

All right, so I want to read this and set us up for the next podcast so we can try to get done. It says. So we think NT Wright said this as well, that this chapter, he probably ended the book in 20. This chapter was probably added later, either by John or one of the people that work with John because it's almost like he's telling one more story. But it's almost like we wrapped the book in chapter 20. So most scholars believe this was added and not meaning added like way after time, but by John.

[Allen]

Well, maybe it was to reinstate Peter because nowhere else in the Gospels does it have the reinstatement.

[Zach]

And obviously this is the leader of the first century church, so it's important to have that.

[Allen]

Well, it would give us two letters a little more credibility if we know he came back from the denial because we left off at the denial.

[Zach]

So here's what happened. It says afterward, so we know this at some point in 40, when it says afterwards, some point in 40 days. Because Jesus was only here 40 days. We know that from Acts 1 in Acts 1. Afterward, Jesus appeared again to his disciples by the Sea of Tiberia. So it's back to the Sea of Galilee. It happened this way. Simon Peter. So here's Peter, Thomas. There's Thomas again, Nathaniel. Which is a callback to chapter one. Jason from Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zebedee. So that's James and John, the sons of thunder. And two other disciples were together. And I don't know why those guys didn't get named. Maybe they weren't part of the original 12. I'm going out to fish. Simon Peter told them. And they said, we'll go with you. So they went out, they got into the boat, but that night they caught nothing. By the way, this is a callback. You need to go back and read Luke 5, because this is exactly how Peter got in the first time.

[Allen]

I mean, and I think we've gone through that before, but it's awesome.

[Zach]

Very powerful. Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore. So now they fished all night. They hadn't caught anything. And so now all of a sudden, Jesus is on the shore. But the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus. So here we go again. Some sort of. Either he's too far away or he's done something again to his appearance, which is what I think. So they don't know who he is. He calls out to them, friends, haven't you any fish? And I'm going to talk about the next podcast about that word friends, which is interesting. No, they answered. So he said, throw your net on the right side of the boat and you'll find some. So again, this is right back to Luke 5.

[Allen]

It is. And the response was totally different in Luke 5 when the miracle happened, right? Remember, Peter fell down and said, have mercy on me, I am a sinner.

[Jason]

Right?

[Allen]

But this response we are fixed to see.

[Zach]

So when they did, they were unable to haul the net in because of the large number of. Of fish. So once again we have this miraculous catch that God has provided. Jesus has provided. Then the disciple whom Jesus loved, which we assume is John, said to Peter, it is the Lord. So he immediately recognized the callback, which.

[Allen]

Is a statement because he was dead a few days ago.

[Zach]

Exactly as soon as Simon Peter heard him say it, it is the Lord. He wrapped his outer garment around him, for he had taken it off and jumped in the water. So he didn't even. It was just another. It Was. It's another callback. Remember when he tried to walk on the water and he was sinking? It's like he's going to walk on water again, you know, to get to.

[Allen]

Jesus, which is, look, I've jumped in the water many a time, but never for something this exciting. But every other time was exciting.

[Zach]

The other disciples followed in the boat, towing the net full of fish, for they were not far from the shore, about a hundred yards. So it even tells how far they were. And by the way, 100 yards you can see. So that's why I think Jesus was disguising 100 yards. You could tell if it was him or not. When they landed, they saw a fire of burning coals. Oh, there's another callback. Remember last time Peter was around some burning.

[Allen]

He denied there was a fire. He was warming himself, said, I don't know the man.

[Zach]

And there was fish on it and some bread. So Jesus has made breakfast. Fish and bread on coals. Jesus said to them, bring some of the fish you just caught. Simon Peter climbed aboard and dragged the net ashore. And Jason loved this line because he actually mentions the number of fish. Only a commercial fisherman would put this in here. It was full of large fish, 153. Only a fisherman will tell you exactly how many he caught.

[Allen]

Who would make this up? You want some scientific evidence? There it is.

[Zach]

Only a fisherman would do that. But even with so many, the net was not torn. Ooh, there's a callback, because the net was tearing. Back in Luke 5, Jesus said to them, come and have breakfast. None of the disciples dared ask him. So they still don't rec. He still doesn't look like himself because they said they didn't dare ask him, who are you? That's interesting. They knew it was the Lord. So even though it didn't look like him, they knew it was him who would do this. Jesus came, took the bread, gave it to them, and did the same with the fish. There's a callback to John 13, you know, when they're feeding and the first Passover and all this stuff. This was now the third time Jesus appeared to his disciples after he was raised from the dead.

[Allen]

It also fulfills the first line he told them when he said, come, follow me and I'll make you fishers of me. Yeah. And he's going to tell Peter in this next conversation, follow me, I'll make you fishers of men. So.

[Zach]

So there are many, many callbacks. I just highlighted a few as we went through. But there's. Think about there's the feeding of the 5,000, you know, with the fish and the bread. And so there's that callback that he does. There's so many. It's almost like. And I think that's why John includes it afterwards, because it's like, like you're going back over the span of the whole gospel and you're seeing it all being retold in this one appearance that he has with them once again, fishing. It's almost like you said, it's that it's restoration plus, because it's about to get way better. Because the Great Commission is going to come after this at some point right before he leaves.

[Allen]

I mean, for all humans out there, the possibility to have breakfast with someone who was dead should light your fire.

[Zach]

Should it make you jump out of the boat and try to walk on water.

[Allen]

I have thought to myself thousands of times that when we get our resurrected bodies, that statement being said, all right, let's have breakfast. I mean, this is the pinnacle to me, I think if you're a human and are not living in denial when it comes to time and your own impending death, which it is impending, Right. This is the hope he's offered, and.

[Zach]

I love it that this is resurrected, glorified, Son of God, Son of man, doing something so human to just cook breakfast for him to reconnect. I mean, to me, it's like it's the ultimate idea of a family gathering.

[Allen]

Well, one of the themes of the Bible is heaven and earth coming back together, which started in Genesis 1. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and you see that through a human, the son of God, Jesus, offering hope to humanity.

[Zach]

So we got a lot to unpack, and we'll get to it next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode out.