Ep 1238 | ‘Duck Dynasty’ Announces the Arrival of Two New Babies

Summary

Podcast Summary: Unashamed with the Robertson Family

Episode: Ep 1238 | ‘Duck Dynasty’ Announces the Arrival of Two New Babies
Date: December 31, 2025
Hosts: Al, Jase (Jay), Zach

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Overview

This episode weaves together faith, family milestones, and a deep dive into Scripture, centering around the resurrection story in the Gospel of John. The Robertsons begin by joyfully sharing updates about new additions to their extended family before diving into heartfelt discussions on spiritual renewal, redemption, and the enduring lessons of the Apostle Peter’s story.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Family Announcements and God’s Faithfulness

• [01:12] Al shares news: John Godwin and Paula from the Duck Call Room podcast became grandparents to twin girls. Johanna, their daughter, overcame prior fertility struggles—“God be praised.”
• Relatability: The family recounts personal stories about their own children’s fragility and God’s providence in uncertain times.
  • “She weighed 1 pound and 15 ounces… Dad said, ‘Al, I caught fish bigger than her.’” (Al, [02:08])
  • “God is good.” (Phil, via Al, [03:02])

2. Resurrection Appearances & The Nature of Christ’s Body

• [03:47] The group transitions into a theological conversation about Christ's post-resurrection appearances in John 21.

• Jesus’ Nature Post-Resurrection: Discussion of how Jesus appears and disappears, emphasizing his form isn’t bound by space or time.

  • “He was levitating... Maybe disappeared.” (Jay, [04:17])
  • “So I want to say that because there’s a lot of bad theology out there that starts trying to attach him to space and time.” (Jay, [04:52])

• Spiritual Bodies: Zach discusses the meaning of "incarnation" and physical resurrection.

  • “He was in a human body. And so whatever the body that was raised, imperishable, it still was, was a body of flesh and blood or flesh and bones, as the scripture says.” (Zach, [06:40])

3. The Afterlife and Our Perspective

• [08:31] They discuss Jesus’ teachings about the afterlife, marriage, and God’s immeasurable nature.
  • “If we could wrap the essence of God in our little brain, he really wouldn’t be God.” (Al, paraphrased by Jay, [09:30])
  • Jase encourages listeners to think bigger about eternal life and our relationships in heaven.

4. John 21: Language, Context, and Restoration of Peter

Jesus’ Language Shift

• [12:08] Al highlights the affectionate use of “children” in John 21:5 (ESV), reflecting Jesus’ post-resurrection intimacy with his disciples.

The Disciples’ Growth

• The hosts note Thomas and Nathanael (“the skeptics”) are present in the fishing scene, an intentional choice in the biblical narrative ([13:15]-[14:06]).

Parallels in Miraculous Catches

• Fishing Stories: The episode contrasts Jesus’ instruction in Luke 5 and John 21—first urging deep water, then simply switching sides of the boat ([16:53]-[18:55]).
  • “This is like the guy that makes stuff.” (Zach, [18:17])
  • “Do what I’m telling you, and it’s a guaranteed massive catch.” (Zach, [18:20])

5. Peter’s Emotional Evolution

• Comparison between Peter’s initial unworthiness (“Go away from me, Lord, I am a sinful man,” Luke 5) and his later impulsive, restoration-seeking response (jumping out of the boat toward Jesus, John 21).

• “There’s a time to get excited about the resurrection and get out of your comfort zone.” (Jay, [23:19])

• Redemption vs. Remorse: The group draws a parallel to Judas’ remorse and subsequent despair, emphasizing the difference between wallowing in sin and reaching out to Jesus for restoration ([23:23]-[24:22]).

6. Divine Second Chances — Peter’s Restoration Conversation

Greek Words for Love: A Transformative Exchange

• [25:38]-[31:47] Detailed breakdown of the Peter and Jesus dialogue:
  • Jesus asks: “Do you agape (self-sacrificial love) me?”
  • Peter responds: “You know I phileo (friendship love) you.”
  • Jesus repeats the question; Peter maintains his answer until Jesus finally asks, “Do you phileo me?”
  • “God comes to where you are, because that’s where they get it from right here…It’s a process. I’m going to use you.” (Jay, [31:47])

Practical Application

• Even as Peter answers honestly, Jesus commissions him each time (“Feed my lambs”, “Take care of my sheep”), symbolically undoing his three denials and entrusting him with spiritual leadership.

• “Peter’s still got so much ahead of him to do, that he’s going to be amazing doing. But he always carries his flaws with him.” (Al, [32:01])

7. Imperfection, Growth, and Leadership

• A candid talk about the Robertson family culture, embracing flaws and learning over time, relating them to Peter’s journey.

  • “If you canceled somebody every time they said something outlandish or had to go back on it...We’d all be canceled.” (Al, [34:31])
  • “I’m a much bigger fan of what I call forgiveness culture, which is what Jesus brought.” (Zach, [34:00])

• Peter as Example: They discuss Peter’s post-resurrection flaws (e.g., reluctance with gentiles per Galatians/Acts 10, [35:53]-[36:25]), emphasizing that God chooses imperfect people for His purposes.

8. Jesus’ Prophetic Word for Peter—and for Us

• Jesus predicts Peter’s martyrdom and reiterates, “Follow me,” echoing his first call to Peter in Luke 5 ([38:51]–[42:32]).

  • “He would rather die and watch his wife die than deny again. So what happened here? I would argue the Holy Spirit indwelling him also helped him as he matured. But the point of this is God uses you and he's immediately wanting you to go on the offense.” (Jay, [40:22])

• Discussion of the “already/not-yet” tension: The kingdom is present but not yet consummated, suffering and martyrdom are still realities ([41:47]–[42:32]).

9. The Question of Comparison and the Sovereignty of God

• On Peter asking about John’s fate:

  • “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.” (Jesus, quoted by Al, [44:13])

• The hosts note the practical lesson: focus on your own walk instead of speculating about the journeys of others—a mature response to life’s mysteries and tragedies.

  • “When we try to do that, we find out how limited we are in about five seconds.” (Al, [47:41])

  • “What’s that got to do with you?” (Jay, [48:23])

10. Perspective, Maturity, and Trusting God’s Plan

• The group humorously discusses how with age, they realize how little they knew in their youth—and how that gap is infinitely wider compared to God’s knowledge.

  • “For us to claim the right to have that kind of sovereignty over our own world and our own lives is actually stupidity.” (Zach, [49:45])

• Equating faith with trust in God’s bigger, unseen perspective—“Your vantage point is so limited.”

11. John’s Final Statement — The Limitlessness of Christ

• [53:38]-[54:16] John closes the Gospel with the assertion that Jesus did so many things that the world couldn’t contain all the books about Him.

  • “If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.” (John, quoted by Al, [53:38])

• The hosts reflect on how the written Word is meant to point us to the Person of Christ, not replace Him.

  • “The Bible itself, the letters written more than the creator…It’s like they miss the creator who wrote this. And I, I don’t think that’s a good thing.” (Jay, [55:05])

• They emphasize the theme of John—written so listeners would believe and have life in Christ (John 20:31, [56:53]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “God be praised.” — Al ([01:49])
• “If we could wrap the essence of God in our little brain, he really wouldn’t be God.” — Jay ([09:30])
• “There's a time to get excited about the resurrection and get out of your comfort zone.” — Jay ([23:19])
• “God comes to where you are…It's a process. I’m going to use you.” — Jay ([31:47])
• “I’m a much bigger fan of forgiveness culture, which is what Jesus brought.” — Zach ([34:00])
• “For us to claim the right to have that kind of sovereignty over our own world and our own lives is actually stupidity.” — Zach ([49:45])
• “If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.” — John/Al ([53:38])

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Important Timestamps

• [01:12] - Birth announcement and God’s faithfulness in family
• [03:47] - Discussion begins on Jesus’ resurrection appearances
• [12:08] - Jesus’ affectionate language (“children”)
• [16:53]-[18:55] - Parallels in miraculous catches of fish
• [25:38]-[31:47] - Greek words for “love” in Peter’s restoration
• [34:00] - “Forgiveness culture” discussion
• [40:22] - Peter’s maturity and martyrdom
• [44:13] - Jesus’ rebuke to Peter about comparing himself to John
• [53:38] - John’s hyperbolic closing to his Gospel
• [56:53] - Affirming the central purpose of John’s Gospel

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Tone & Takeaway

With their hallmark mix of humor, warmth, and deep scriptural insight, the Robertsons encourage listeners to embrace the fullness of grace—honestly facing flaws, celebrating redemption, and focusing on following Christ personally rather than comparing their journey to others. The episode closes with a sense of hopeful anticipation for the year ahead, new family members, and the continued adventure of faith.

Transcript

[Al]

So no matter how you slice it, we're definitely in a divided time in our country. There's. There's no way around it. We see it every single day and watch the news. And so I think in this time of division, we have to have consistency that speaking into the values that we believe in. One of our good friends, Tony Perkins, heads up an organization called Family Research Council. As Louisiana guy is a pastor, he has our heart for Jesus. He even did a blurb in dad's book, Theft of America's Soul. And it's just been there for us as a family, but also as a nation. So FRC is standing for what's right. They defend faith. They protect families. They remind leaders that biblical truth still matters. So when others compromise, our friends at FRC stand firm. Because if we lose our foundation, we lose the soul of our nation. Unashamed nation. You guys can help out FRC by defending what matters most by visiting FRC.org unashamed to learn more. Check them out.

[Jay]

I am unashamed.

[Zach]

What about you?

[Al]

Welcome back to Unashamed. For you, it's been one day. For us, it's been two minutes as we're jumping right back in. But I do want to give congratulations. I just received a text that John Godwin, our good friend, and Paula from our duck call room podcast are grandparents. They just. Their daughter Johanna just had twin. Twin girls this morning. Everybody's healthy and doing well, so we're excited about that. You know, Johanna had had some issues getting pregnant and had had some problems, so there was a little bit of fear and prayer this morning, but everything's good. So. God be praised.

[Jay]

Slightly larger than a crappie. Yeah, four and six pounds in the. In the large mouth bass arena as far as size, because there's two of them.

[Al]

Yeah, that's right. One.

[Jay]

I'm only saying that because that's probably how he's gonna describe them, because he's now a guide. Yeah, that's what he. What he wants.

[Al]

Well, my oldest daughter Jay's was Anna, who now takes care of mom. She's. She turns 40 this year. I can't believe it. I have a child about to be 40 years old that she. She weighed 1 pound and 15 ounces. And I remember dad saying the first time dad went and visited her, he looked at her, and of course, she was 12 inches long. So, I mean, we're talking less than 2 pounds. So this is like a crappie. You know, speaking of fish. And dad looked there, he said, al, I caught fish bigger than her.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[Al]

Just yesterday. And I said, I know, Dad. I said, you know, and it was so funny because we were so young and we were new. I was a new Christian, you know, I just come back to the Lord. And Lisa and I were, you know, fairly newly married within two years. And so it was almost like we were so faithful. I didn't even fear probably as much as I would now. I was just thinking she'd be fine.

[Jay]

And she was a wonderful human reflecting God's image. She turned out.

[Al]

She turned out to be. I told mom and dad both that back before dad crossed over. I said, y' all remember when. When that one right there. We were in their room, and I said, dad, do you remember when she was that little skin squirrel is what she looked like in the hospital? He said, yep. And I said, you ever think she'd be almost 40 and taking care of you and Mom? He said, God is good.

[Jay]

Yeah, that's what he said. Yeah. She kind of became Phil's favorite, you know, just in the last.

[Al]

Well, she's the oldest, too, so because it makes sense. She's the oldest grandmother.

[Jay]

It's okay to play favorites from time to time.

[Al]

It is. Especially when you got somebody taking care of your folks, which is a. Which is good.

[Jay]

All right, we have to get to 21, because this is the last venture for John in the last podcast.

[Al]

So we're in. We're into the last. Well, I wouldn't say it's the last appearance. It's the last one in John, but probably chronologically, obviously, there's one more when Jesus leaves, which I would call the last appearance, which is the great commission, Matthew 28, Mark 16, where he gives them the charge, and then he literally flies away. And then you pick it up in Acts 1. Luke is. Who wrote the book of Luke as well. Is basically.

[Jay]

Probably wasn't flying. He just.

[Al]

We just left here. I mean, he was in the air. He was levitating.

[Jay]

He was levitating. Maybe disappeared.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jay]

That's why some.

[Al]

When he got to some point where they were looking, and then it said.

[Jay]

They couldn't see him, but said a cloud hid him from their sight. But the reason I could have been a low cloud playfully pushing back, back is because he was no longer bound by space or time.

[Al]

Right. So which is how he's sitting at a table, eating with two guys, and then it said, they open. Their eyes were open, they saw him, they recognized him, and then he disappeared. What does that mean?

[Jay]

Well, how did he get in the room when the doors were locked?

[Al]

Exactly.

[Jay]

So I want to say that because there's a lot of bad theology out there that starts trying to attach him to space and time. And so because we use those words well, when he comes back, I think a better word would be when he appears.

[Al]

Which is so interesting, Jace, because I just had this conversation. There's a lady, a wonderful lady that sits with mom now for she's kind of the regular during the day. And so we were talking yesterday, and we've always had a lot of conversations because she's there. And so you're always talking with mom and talking with her. And so somehow this came up about what we're going to be like. I guess we were probably talking about dad and maybe mom, you know, like post resurrection. And then the lady, she said, well, the only thing we know is we won't have a physical body. And I was like, oh, do we know that? I said, why do we know that? So I asked her. Then she starts telling me. So I said, well, you know, and then I just kind of subtly went into a little Bible study with her.

[Jay]

You know, we did read the Luke 24 last time where he out of Jesus's lip said, look at my hands.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jay]

And my feet. A ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see.

[Al]

I have. He's not a ghost.

[Jay]

Zach, give us about five big words that nobody's ever heard of to put an exclamation point on that.

[Al]

Can you. Can you take that whole thing and lump it into five words we've never heard of?

[Zach]

Five words you've never heard of? Probably not, but. But I do think it's a. I mean, it is a key distinction of the Christian faith is not just that Christ incarnated, which he did.

[Jay]

There's one.

[Zach]

There's one in the form of a.

[Al]

Baby incarnated in flesh.

[Zach]

In flesh. Well, think about the word incarnate. Think about the word Karn. A carnivore. Like a carnivore diet. What does that mean? Meat, Flesh.

[Al]

Right, right.

[Zach]

If I'm a carnivore, then I'm a meat eater. And so Christ came and put his himself in meat. And he did. He was in a human body. And so whatever the human, Whatever the body that was raised, imperishable, it still was, was a body of flesh and blood or flesh and bones, as the scripture says. And, yeah, it's kind of an interesting question because you think, where. Where is that body? Where is his body right now? I don't have a really great understanding of that, but. But.

[Jay]

Well, I would say, he's here, we're the body of Christ.

[Al]

And that's true.

[Jay]

That's a true story. Yes, that's true.

[Al]

But he's also someplace as well.

[Jay]

Well, it's kind of when you go Back to John 2 and the wedding and you realize. You read that story again where he changed the water to the wine, but then he. It says, what is the exact phrase? He revealed his glory to the disciples in 2:11. This is the first of his miraculous signs. Jesus performed at Cana and Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him. So you see where I'm going? He's looking for a bride. Because in Christ, whether you're male or female, we're the bride, body of Christ. But he still has a body. I was just using that playfully. But it also showed that. Remember when he changed the water to wine and he gave him the best. He improved on all the little wines out there. And that was kind of what we talked about last time, about what he does. But it's hard to put that into words because it's better than you can imagine. I mean, think about Paul's prayer. He can do more than we can imagine.

[Al]

Which is interesting because even the little glimpses you got from things he said, Remember when they tried to trap him that time when they were like, if you were married seven times and then you're in the resurrection, who will you be married to? They had a real theological point. He was like, oh, you're ignorant of the scriptures.

[Jay]

Yeah. What he says, you don't know the scriptures. And we talked about that on the last podcast. Or the power of God.

[Al]

Exactly.

[Jay]

And he also said in that story to God, all are alive.

[Al]

Right. Which is to the point you just made about male and female. That's why he said, there won't be any marriage. Like, you know, marriage on earth, but for the purposes, we're married on earth. But he didn't say, you wouldn't be brother and sister and one and have all the blessings of resurrection. Because a lot of people were like, that's a bummer for them. They were like, Lisa really struggled with this early because she was like, well, I want to be married to you. I said, well, babe, oh, yeah, you understand. We're like, brother, we're going to be best friends through eternity. Like, don't worry about that.

[Jay]

It's way deeper.

[Al]

It's way bigger.

[Jay]

I've said that in so many discussions. You know, we've done that numerous house churches and Bible talks. And you start talking about what the afterlife is going to be like. And I just usually wind up saying, I think we need to think bigger. We need to use our imagination. And look, I think the reason for that is if we could wrap the essence of God in our little brain, he really wouldn't be God. I mean, you can't conceive who he is. We just relate. That's why he became a human, which is.

[Al]

So. Zach, I got a question. What's the ESV? Is that what you're using? ESV?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Al]

What is the ESV? Verse 5 of John 21. Read that verse. He called out to them.

[Zach]

John 21:5 says, Jesus said to them, children, do you have any fish? They answered him no. I got my first term life insurance policy when Laila was born. And I just was thinking, man, if something happened to me, what would I do? Or what would my, my family do without me? How would they pay for the mortgage? How would they pay for school? How would they pay for groceries? I truly believe that it is the responsible thing that everybody should have a term life insurance policy. I've had mine for many many years. So let me tell you about Fabric by Gerber Life. It's a term life insurance policy that you can get done today. It's made for busy parents just like you all online your schedule right from your couch and you can be covered in under 10 minutes with no health exam required. If you've got kids, especially if you're young and you're healthy, the time to lock in your low rates is now. Even if you have life insurance through your employer, it may not be enough protection for your family and it may not follow you if you leave your job. Fabric has flexible high quality policies that fit your family and your budget like a million dollars in coverage for less than a dollar a day. There's a no risk 30 day money back guarantee and you can cancel at any time. Also, they have over 19005 star reviews on Trustpilot with a rating of excellent. Fabric also has free digital wills, tools to invest in your kids future and much much more. All right. From your phone. So join the thousands of parents who trust fabric to help protect their family. Apply today in just [e-mail] unashamed that's meetfabric.com unashamed M E E T fabric.com/unashamed Policies issued by Western Southern Life Assurance Company not available in certain states. Prices subject to underwriting and health questions.

[Al]

So that word. I I want you to read that because the ESV is That's a much better translation. The NIV says friends, but he actually calls them children. But. And I looked up the word, and it's. It's not like. It's not like a negative thing. It's like a. An affectionate term. But it would be like if we were to say, like, when I say, Zach, we do the Hillsdale. I refer to John, Luke, and Christian as the kids. I say, well, now you kids are at the adult table. Well, I'm not demeaning them. They're just young, but they're part of our discussion. Well, that's sort of what he does here. It's almost playful, but I never recognized it until I looked up the Bible.

[Jay]

It makes more sense now when you go back to chapter 20 in the Conversation with Mary, when he said, you know, don't hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them I am returning to my father. And your father, his language changed post resurrection with them.

[Al]

That's exactly right. And this word signifies that much better. And I wanted to bring that out.

[Jay]

It gives more evidence about the forever family, a phrase we've used talking about God getting his family back, which is what happened.

[Al]

So that was one thing I want to mention. Two was another thing in the kind of the throwbacks. You remember, Thomas is here, and Nathaniel and I thought it was interesting that those two guys wound up in this little fishing party, because they normally weren't fishermen. I mean, they had different backgrounds. Remember, Nathanael even had kind of a royalty background to him. It was very structured in the Jewish hierarchy. But it's interesting, both of them were skeptics, I would say more than everybody else, based on the little interaction we have from the book of John, Nathanael and Thomas. And yet they were here for this moment with Peter. And again, accidents don't happen in biblical narrative. So there was a reason why this little party was together.

[Jay]

Well, and I think they had just kind of returned to where they started. And it's kind of like when someone dies. Usually there's about a week or two where everybody's around each other, you know, all the parties involved. And you just have this weird occurrence, which, by the way, when we were doing our Christmas with my oldest son the other night, and my daughter asked for us to go around and say what our favorite moment of the year was. All my kids said that, you know, when my dad died, us just being together for those. I don't know, it went on for 10 days. Probably they wouldn't leave. But it was just starting in that roof. And all the. All the. From tears to laughter to just sharing, where do we move forward, how we continue the legacy. I was just kind of surprised by. They said it was the greatest memory of the year and in a morbid moment. But to us, it kind of goes back to that passage. Well, he's not really dead. I mean, we'll see him again, and we've got a job to do. It kind of ignited a fire.

[Al]

Well, and I noted. I felt it, too, in the moment, from the moment dad crossed over to those days leading after, because we were planning and working and talking. We were planning his celebration service and all these different things. But I felt that patriarch passing moment. And then I also noticed. I told you this because I noticed it in Reid especially, but I noticed, like, the older grandchildren stepping up, and we talked about Anna on this podcast. I watched them sort of take on new roles within the family. And it's interesting how that works. It's just. And we're kind of even getting to see that living legacy of transition that happens even here, why we're here. And so we start to realize that. But that doesn't happen sometimes until the patriarch matriarch step over. And then we.

[Jay]

And it shows itself in different ways. You know, my son, he pointed to his wife, and one of his favorite memories was that she's just been ignited with a love for studying the Bible. She's like. He's like. She quickly went past me in a blaze of glory.

[Al]

And we benefited from that on this podcast.

[Jay]

Oh, yeah. And it developed a friendship with me and her, which, you know, because we. She picks my brain and we have multiple Bible studies all the time. But through that, we became deeper friends, and it's just been awesome. So, yeah, that's a good lead in. Into where we're getting with Peter, because there's a lot of good stuff here.

[Al]

So I want to mention a couple of things. I just flipped back over to Luke 5, because as I was reading it last time on the podcast, I just kind of. You. And I jumped in with some comments, but there were some similarities and yet some differences. One, in. And I'm in Luke 5, in verse 4, he says, put out in the deep water and let down the nets for a catch. So this is Jesus is in the boat, or Jesus is on the bank and they're out there in the boat. They've been fishing all night. Same story. But in the first thing he says, put out in deeper water. And I thought it was interesting Just from a fishing standpoint, you know, he's telling them, you're fishing in the wrong spot. Just move out there where they. They had this miraculous catch. But in this case, when he comes back, he just says, well, you're just on the wrong side. Yeah, just throw right there. I mean, it's not even like, you know, you're. We've been fishing on the left side, so why don't you try the right side? So to me, like, he gets to it even quicker. Like, let me just show you.

[Jay]

And don't you think subtly, he's equating him being the son of God up, I made these fish.

[Al]

Exactly.

[Jay]

And, I mean, that just is my nt.

[Al]

Right. Made that point. It's not like he was giving them a like. Because you, as a person who knows the river, you might see somebody fishing and they're not doing it the right way. And you may say, hey, boys, you probably need to try this bait or whatever. But this is a guy that can just create those fish or just move them.

[Jay]

I mean, whatever.

[Al]

Or move them.

[Zach]

It's not a better fishing technique here.

[Al]

No, no, no. This is like the guy that makes stuff.

[Zach]

This is like, do what I'm telling you, and it's a guaranteed massive catch.

[Al]

So. So Simon answers in the first narrative. Master, which is interesting. He calls him master because he just met him. We've worked hard all night, haven't caught anything. Which to me is him kind of saying, hey, you know, we do this, but because you say so, I'll let down the nest. Well, compare that now to the forwarded version where he doesn't even say anything. He just jumps out of the boat. I mean, like, as soon as that happens. See what I'm saying? You're seeing the now evolution of who Jesus is in the moment.

[Jay]

And it was an emotional response. He's back. But you got to remember, he feels really guilty about what has transpired. And I'm sure once the adrenaline rush wore off, he's staring at that fire as they're eating breakfast, which then kind of leads to this hard conversation due to the translation from Greek. And, I mean, Jesus was speaking Aramaic, which we won't go down that rabbit hole, but you can look it up and figure out.

[Al]

Yeah, and I have a cup of the Greek word. Let me mention one more, and then we'll go back and read that last segment. And you've mentioned this before, Jase. So they signaled their partners. So when they had done so, they caught such a large number of fish that their nets began to Break. This is the first story again. So the nets are breaking with the large number. And we know now in the new creation, the nets didn't break.

[Jay]

The nets didn't break, which is resurrection. That's why you can't just stop the story of Jesus at the cross. Can't do it.

[Al]

That's right.

[Jay]

Can't do it. The resurrection. Paul echoed that. First Corinthians 15. If Christ hadn't been raised, this is futile and we're still in our sins. I mean, that's the quote he says.

[Al]

So. And the last thing I want to mention about it is Peter's response is, go away from me, Lord. I'm a sinful man. Remember, when the moment hits him in that first moment, he's like. He realizes the bigness of it. He's like, I'm not worthy to even be with you. And then Jesus tells him, oh, you're going to be a fisher of men.

[Jay]

Convicted, but not completely transformed here.

[Al]

Yeah, because the process has to work itself out. So I do want to mention that because Zach and I just did a study for Hillsdale on King David. And Zach, you remember one of the things from that study, and I just want to bring that up in this Peter context when there's a fall. In other words, when you do something as a man who has the spirit of Christ or spirit of God, which David did with just a terrible mistake he made that then led to a lot of other mistakes that then wrecked his whole family. I mean, like, they were never the same again. It was just. The kingdom got ripped apart. It was terrible. And we tell the story on the other podcast.

[Jay]

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[Al]

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[Jay]

Don't you find it fascinating that, like us as followers of Jesus, and I mean, just as a whole, people tend to gravitate toward Admit you're a sinner, which is what happened in Luke 5. Right. But you don't hear many sermons on jump out of the boat. I mean, I think that's a problem.

[Al]

It is a problem.

[Jay]

There's a time to get excited about the resurrection and get out of your comfort zone.

[Al]

Well, and I've told you before, like one of the other gospels, I think it's Luke that mentions what happens in the same time setting with Judas, who betrayed Jesus in a different way, but still had a fall and a betrayal. But then he doesn't wait around and he goes and kills himself because he sees no way out of his fall.

[Jay]

Which really shows you that just remorse is not enough.

[Al]

Not enough. And that's my point. The point is to trust God enough to trust Christ enough to have a moment like we're about to read. I mean, this is the moment for all of us. So I just. The way to the fall, and I speak that because there's a lot of people out there because I get notes from you all the time. You're like, you know, I just, man, I've made such a mess of things. I grew up, I knew the right things. And then my life went a direction that was terrible and I'm not sure I can come back. And you're just like, oh, there's always a way back.

[Jay]

We tend to want to wallow in our brokenness.

[Al]

Exactly. Instead of just saying, jump out of the boat. Right.

[Jay]

Well, and I think that's what we've talked about many times here, that it's not just what you're saved from, it's what you're saved to do. And I think you see these illustrations with Mary, Thomas, and Peter with that exact thought. Right.

[Al]

So let me read the last section, because what this is, interestingly enough, is another callback to John 10, when Jesus said, I am the good shepherd, and my sheep know me, and I know my sheep. And so that whole context. And then Peter's going to write about this later in 1 Peter 5. He calls himself an elder, a shepherd who follows the great. The chief shepherd is what he calls Jesus.

[Jay]

Well, Ann, just Even in John 10, when he said, I come that you may have life and life more abundantly, we're really.

[Al]

That's that restoration plus again.

[Jay]

Exactly.

[Al]

All right, here we go. Verse 15. So now remember the setting. They've, you know, he's the miraculous catch. They get the fish up to the shore. He says, yeah, bring a few extra over. We'll cook those up too. So they have breakfast. And they're not going to ask because he looks different. But that's the setting. Well, why don't you.

[Jay]

When you read this, if you can do this off memory, I can help if you want. And because we have one English word.

[Al]

Yeah, I got it in my notes. For love.

[Jay]

But why don't you read it the way it's written? Well, yeah, when it gets to the Greek, because it seems confusing when you read this. Do you love me? Because we, as humans, we're like, I love fish. I love my wife. And you're like, well, I hope you love your wife more than fish. We don't have another word for that.

[Al]

The Greek said at least four words for love. And agape is one.

[Jay]

Which is the. The best one.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jay]

Because it's like a sacrificial love.

[Al]

I'm giving it.

[Jay]

All right. I mean, Philia, Philadelphia, which we get.

[Al]

Brotherly love. More of a friendship type love. You had Eros, which is a sensual, you know, even sexual love. That one. And then I think the other one is Theos, which is another form. But you don't see that in the text. But those three are in the text. So, yeah, I'll read that when I'm reading this. So when they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter. And by the way, you're gonna see this later in the reading that John is following. So I'm assuming this is a conversation they're having, sort of walking away from the others. Cause later he's gonna look back and John's kind of been following along behind him. So this is kind of a private conversation between Jesus and Peter. But John is privy to it because he's walking nearby. So when they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, and they're kind of walking along the shore. Just imagine this moment, Simon, son of John. And it is interesting, he went back to his Jewish name there as well. Simon, do you truly agape me? That's the word. He asked him more than these. So this self sacrificial, that's his question, do you agape me? And look, he compares it even to the rest. He said, do you really agape me more? Yes, Lord, he says, you know that I philea you.

[Jay]

He answers more like, we're friends.

[Al]

We're friends.

[Jay]

Yeah, I love you. Which is not bad, but it's different, it's different.

[Al]

It's a different answer. And then Jesus says, feed my lambs. So that's what he's so again, Jesus says so now the second time, but.

[Jay]

He still look, focus on, I got a job for you. Yeah, I think that's really incredible, right? Because we're like, oh, you got to get fixed, right? And he's like, do you love me? Yeah, self sacrificial love. Are you all in?

[Al]

Are you all in?

[Jay]

Well, you know, I'm your friend, which is good.

[Al]

It's good.

[Jay]

He's like, well, I can use you.

[Al]

And it's honest, right?

[Jay]

Yeah, it's honest.

[Al]

And Jesus says the second time, simon, son of John, do you truly agape me? He's asking the same question again.

[Jay]

So it makes more sense now why he's asked him three times.

[Al]

And he answered, yes, Lord, you know that I phileo you. So he says the same thing again, we're friends.

[Jay]

We're friends. And I do. I want to say this. This conversation started when he said, do you truly love me more than these? Because that takes you back to when he said Peter out of his mouth, if everyone falls away, not me, I'll die with you. And in John 13, when Jesus was talking about his death, Peter said, lord, where are you going? This is 1336 where I'm going. You cannot follow now, but you will later. Peter asks, lord, why can't I follow you now? I will lay down my life for you. Jesus answered, will you really lay down your life for me? And the other time in Matthew, he's like, if all of them fall away, not me, right?

[Al]

So we're back to not only the three times of denial, which obviously this is a tie in to what Peter denied that night, but also a callback to, oh, so you love me more than the you said you would lay down your life. Did you really mean it? That's what he's saying.

[Jay]

It made me think of a question, because we have a weird moment here where Peter has done something he said he would never do. So the things I've said that I'll never do, they're bad. You know, I'm never gonna. You know, I would never murder someone. And I mean, the list is probably pretty short. But what happens if you do it? And now you're standing before the creator of the universe in human form. That would be a difficult conversation because you're on record. And Jesus is bringing it up when he said, do you truly love me more than these? Because that statement he made, if they all fall away, not me.

[Al]

That's right.

[Jay]

Well, until you did. And not only did you do it, you did it three times. So I just wanted to bring that up.

[Al]

And we're on number two. And so Jesus says again. So he's asked him, do you unconditionally, sacrificially love me? You know, I'm your friend. Then Jesus says the second time, take care of my sheep. Which is a little different. Feed my lambs, take care of my sheep. Still a shepherding. So you're going to be a shepherd. That's what he's telling the third time. He says to him, simon, son of John, do you agape me?

[Jay]

No.

[Al]

I think. And then do you, Philemon me?

[Jay]

Yeah. He says, do you love me like friends? So Jesus changed. Do you really? It kind of goes, that's why I wanted to read John 13. He's like, are you really my friend? Do you really love me like a friend? Which is a good reminder of when you said, oh, if everybody leaves, not me.

[Al]

So he switched his word to what Peter's answered twice. And look at Peter's response. Peter was hurt because John asked him the third time, do you, Philemmy? And he said, lord, you know all things. You know that I phile you. So he says the same thing all three times. Peter does. Jesus changed his, which was okay.

[Jay]

And a lot of preachers make a point here about God comes to where you are, because that's where they get it from, right here. Because it's like, that'll work. It's a process. I'm going to use you.

[Al]

But I love it that the idea is, you're right, Jay. That Peter's still got so much ahead of him to do, that he's going to be amazing doing. But he's always carries his flaws with him. Zach, you brought this out before he Battled. He battled prejudice and racism into the church because he didn't. He wasn't crazy about the gentiles being a part of. I mean, there were always issues with people.

[Jay]

And it hits home because, Al, we live in a family that make outlandish statements and embellishments, and we say things we're not going to do, like, then we wind up doing them, and then we deceive. And I mean, it's my. We're in a family full of people who get on a rant and you're like, wait, what?

[Zach]

So every January, which is right around the corner, everybody, a lot of people set goals to read through the Bible in a year.

[Al]

I have, and I've completed it a few times through the years.

[Zach]

Yeah, I try to do it every year. Problem is, sometimes you get into it. You get about. You get to about Exodus 35 and you're like, oh, this is getting a little laborious when you get into the details of the temple. And then I just give up. Right. Reading asks you to sit down, carve out quiet time, stay focused. And that can be tough in the middle of real life. So I want to tell you about our friends at the Dwell Audio Bible app. It was created so that you can listen to God's word anytime while driving, walking, doing chores. No need to find the perfect quiet moment. Just Scripture goes with you wherever life takes you. And it works. I mean, every year, thousands of people actually finish a Bible in a year plan because they can listen to it on Dwelling. Terry Lee Cobble's Bible recap is a favorite. It takes you through the Bible chronologically with a short daily reflection that explains tough parts and shows how it all points back to God. And that's just one option. Dwell offers several Bible in a year plans, whether you prefer to go through the scripture by theme story or book order. So if you've struggled to keep your Bible reading resolution in the past, hey, try listing instead.

[Al]

Oh, no doubt about it, Zach. And it makes a huge difference.

[Zach]

Yeah. So head over to dwellbible.com unashamed and you guys can get started today again. That's dwellbible.com/unashamed. That's why. That's why the whole cancel culture thing scared me to death. I was like, man, I. Oh. Because what. What have I said? What have you got me on camera? Where did I make a mistake? Well, I'm much more. I'm much more. I'm a much bigger fan of. Of what I call forgiveness culture, which is what Jesus brought. I want I want to be in the forgiveness culture business.

[Al]

What? Cuz the idea if you canceled somebody every time they said something outlandish or had to go back on it.

[Jay]

Right.

[Al]

We'd all be.

[Jay]

That's done so many episodes. Look, if you're. All you got to do to. To hear me say something stupid is just give it a minute. And I'm sure I will do that. But we.

[Zach]

We have so much content out there.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Once. I mean, you just get some kind of AI bot and just find the. What I mean, I. It's. You can mine it out of just this podcast.

[Al]

Probably. I suppose a really studious person could probably go back to when we first started this podcast six years ago. We studied the Book of John, listened to it, of course, dad was still with us then too. And then compare it to what we said this time, we probably. I would think we improved.

[Jay]

I don't want to embellish since we're in this moment, but I would say at least a dozen times, somebody somewhere came up to me and said, look, one time, you know, you said this, and I just really have a problem with that. And I was like, well, I got good news for you. And they're like, what? I was like, I changed my thoughts on that years ago. I was like, why don't you fast forward and get to the.

[Zach]

I got a problem with that too. That's what people say. Something about Martin Luther or somebody said. Which version?

[Al]

I mean, like.

[Zach]

I mean like, which version do you have an issue with? But. But what's interesting about this, look, Peter's situation of a very flawed individual, by the way. Very flawed, even post resurrection.

[Al]

Correct.

[Zach]

Peter, you know, was flawed because in the book of Galatians, as you mentioned, he got to the altercation with Paul. Paul said he was not acting in line with the truth of the gospel. Paul said, I straight up confronted him right to his face. I rebuked him straight to his face. So you see that?

[Al]

And also Acts 10. Remember how resistant he was when he got this vision from Christ about going to see Cornelius. He didn't want to do it like three times. He's like, ah, I'm not eating this stuff.

[Zach]

You know, he's like, that's why Paul says, imitate me as I imitate Christ. So in the areas of my life that I'm imitating Christ. Yeah. Do what I'm doing. In the areas that I'm not. Don't. Don't imitate me. But look at the. Look at how Christ. Look at how God picks the winners to, to, like, bring forth the kingdom. It's never who you think it is, right?

[Jay]

I mean.

[Zach]

I mean, David was not a great. I mean, you read this, we went to the. Doing the Hillsdale Friday episodes, and we're, We're. We just got through with David, so I can't. By the way, you guys should definitely sign up for that if you're not signed up for it. It was great, a great study we're going to be doing soon. But David was not a great man either. But he was a man after God's own heart. But this was the guy who murdered Uriah. He had a horrible affair with Bathsheba. I mean, there was a lot of things that David did wrong, but yet he was the one that God chose. He was the king that God chose.

[Al]

Eternal covenant.

[Jay]

Well, it's a good analogy, too. And with that thought of doing something you said you'd never do and how God still is there. I mean, his love is so much more than we can wrap our head around, which you just see that in Peter, but don't think yourself more highly than you ought. We all struggle with that and making outlandish statements out of immaturity. And this conversation shows you that there's hope for everyone.

[Al]

So let me read the rest of it. So the third time, there's a hurt there, because I think Peter also realizes, I'm sure, that Jesus asked him three times for a reason, because that's how many times he denied him. But then he says the third time, feed my sheep. So in other words, it was, feed my lambs, take care of my sheep. Feed my sheep. Every answer was the same. You're going to be a shepherd. I tell you the truth. Now here's a direct prophecy for Peter himself from the Lord, I tell you the truth. When you were younger, you dressed yourself and went where you wanted. But when you are old, you will stretch out your hands and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go. And it says here, John gives us the parenthetical thought. Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. So that's another reason why I think it's a later addition, because at this point, John knows how Peter died when he wrote this.

[Jay]

And I think that makes this full circle. When Peter did say he would lay down his life, he actually did at some point.

[Al]

And tradition has it that he was crucified upside down at his own request. At his own request.

[Jay]

Well, and historians say, I know there's a Couple, I can look it up, but that even Peter's wife was martyred, thrown to wild beast in front of him. And he said, let me find who said that. And he told her his last words were, remember the Lord. But I just thought, I mean, this guy, think about. Because you have two different historians that say that about Peter's wife. I know that for a fact. But think about how far he would mature. Where you're watching your wife die and then you're dying for the Lord. You went from denying him to not only having to watch your wife die, which I can't imagine, and then you die and you say, well, what's the point? The resurrection became real to him. That was not a factor. He would rather die and watch his wife die than deny again. So what happened here? And I would argue the Holy Spirit indwelling him also helped him as he matured. But the point of this is God uses you and he's immediately wanting you to go on the offense.

[Zach]

I mean, he uses the resurrection happened too. I mean, there was a clear, distinctive moment for Peter. You know, was he complete after. I love that story because it actually shows the whole concept of the not yet now that Peter after the resurrection was transformed in a very powerful way. For what you just said, Jason, he went to his death. This is the guy denying Christ three times, ends up going to his death, which is prophesied here in this text, that you're gonna. Someone's gonna lead you where you don't wanna go. You're going to die for the cause. You will be a martyr. And so when we emphasize a lot about the kingdom being here, which the kingdom is here, it's all throughout scripture, cannot deny it, that's a really good thing. But it is not fully consummated yet. So yes, there will be pain, yes, there will be martyrs. Yes, there will be people like Peter who go to their death. And this flies in the face of what's called the prosperity gospel that teaches basically, if you just love God, he's going to give you health, wealth and prosperity. Peter didn't experience that. Peter experienced a horrible death on a cross, but he still will be made whole with us. Hebrews chapter 11 talks about this, that together we'll all be consummated together when the second coming happens. And so it gives that tension. There is a tension in the kingdom. It's here. But yet, man, we're longing for that resurrection. We are desperately longing for it.

[Al]

And the last time we studied John, we went straight to Acts and we were able to see in those first eight chapters of Acts just how transformed Peter really was. Go ahead, Jason.

[Jay]

Well, I was just going to say those two historians that cited Peter's wife was Clement of Alexandria in 200 A.D. and then you, Sebius, which quoted Clement about it. But I just want to throw that out there.

[Al]

And that was very close to that was only 100 years after it happened. So 150. So let me finish up this text. So for the second time now, when Jesus tells us to Peter, he says to him, follow me. So this is remember, that's exactly what he told him back in Luke 5. And now he tells and now he tells him the same thing.

[Jay]

And think about the verses that says, you know, you want to follow me, bring your cross. You got to carry your cross. Deny yourself, bring your cross. Well, Peter, he literally did that.

[Al]

And that art again, to those of you out there listening that have had this experience and I had it too, so I can relate to it, where you lost your way and then you came back and Jesus said the same thing. He said the first time to you, follow me. And so you can have those prodigal wanderings and come home. And so that's what Peter does here. So Peter, so here's the interesting so he says, follow me. And he's just told him how he's going to die. This pretty ominous. So Peter turns and now this is where we kind of imagine walking along the shore and he saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved, again we assume John was following them. And then John even says here I just like the way third persons himself, this was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and said, lord, who is going to betray you? So John gives a little insider who that guy is. When Peter saw him, he said, lord, what about him? Which I think is an interesting response in this moment that he just has. When he asked Jesus directly what about his fate. Like, in other words, you just told me what's going to happen to me. What about him? Now, I don't know if that's I don't know what. I don't know if that was like was he worried about John? Because we assume here that John was a lot younger even than everybody else. That's the assumption by most scholars.

[Jay]

Well, it's Peter being Peter despite I'm.

[Al]

Trying to stand up for him, but it sounds like he's like one more.

[Jay]

Time saying I think Jesus response was, yep, you still got a long way to go.

[Al]

Which I think you're right because it's sort of a rebuke. Here's what Jesus said. If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.

[Jay]

But look, lost in all this is these questions that have come up in John 20.

[Al]

I want to talk about that.

[Jay]

Well, the first one was about, do you have any fish? And of course, then the Lord provided. But just think about that question. Maybe a reason you don't. You don't have any fish.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Zach]

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[Jay]

And that means full transparency. I own shares of Shopify and have for years.

[Al]

Yeah, Zach Duck Commander has used Shopify for years to power their store, and it wouldn't be the same without them.

[Zach]

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[Jay]

And then the do you love me?

[Al]

Three times. Do you Agape. Agape.

[Jay]

Not only do we have him given a profound question, you have it three times. And then you have this one look, if I want. And I think this gets so practical to us because it answers that question about life itself. Things happen and they're unexplainable. And he basically answered that right here. Saying, hey, if I want him to stay alive longer, what's that to you? Yeah, what's that got to do with you?

[Al]

You remember when we were in school of preaching days? And I think it's. Is it Deuteronomy 29? 29, there was a verse that says, the secret things of the Lord, and that was when we were in school. That was always the one that was put to us by the instructors. Like, look, when you can't explain something.

[Jay]

Well, that's what they said, because I asked more questions than anybody.

[Zach]

But the what's it to you? Is a nice way of saying, none of your business.

[Al]

That's right. And I've said this many times in serious context. I've said this many times. The Lord works things out through people in different ways for different reasons. And so it's very difficult when you start putting yourself in the position of God and figuring out why that person is experiencing this and why that family's going through that. When we try to do that, we found out how limited we are in about five seconds.

[Jay]

Al, you know how many times I've been in Bible studies, and every time I'm sharing Jesus and then they're telling me how bad life is or bad things that have happened? And I got this from this verse. I say, what's that got to do with you right now? How are you reading this story of Jesus in your life and God being a reality? Then they bring up other things. I have the same question. What's that got to do with you? Which it angers them, usually, because they built a wall in not surrendering to God, and they've justified it. Because there's a lot of bad things that are happening that you know nothing about or why it's happening. So it's a fact.

[Zach]

Because what you're ultimately wanting is you're wanting to be in charge and have your own sovereignty in the matter. But then you get the problem is you don't have the vision to have that kind of sovereignty. And there was a philosopher who actually wrote about this, and he said that he was at a high school football game and his wife and he ran into his high school flame. His name was Garth Brooks, and he had a famous song called Sometimes I thank God for Unanswered Prayers. So he didn't know at the time. He's in high school. He's like, I want this. I mean, and he's thinking, this is the one I want. She's the one. It doesn't work out. He's devastated. Then all These years later, he runs into that same woman at the high school football game and he's like, whoa, she wasn't. He says he wasn't quite the. The woman I remembered in my dreams. I could tell the times had changed her, you know, her chases or whatever. So he's like, he's looking at her thinking, well, I'm glad I didn't end up with her. And I ended up with, with, with the one that he was with.

[Al]

I have to admit, I've had that same. I didn't know there was a song out there about it because I'm not a country music person. But I, I will say that I have looked at some of my past relationships in my younger days and thought, whoo, I chose wisely.

[Zach]

You like? I got out of that one by the skin.

[Al]

Thank you, Lord, for the unanswered prayer. I didn't, I wasn't really praying about it back then. But I have said, man, I chose wisely.

[Zach]

But you don't know that when you're in it. And the thing that you think you want the Most when you're 16 years old, when you're 40 years old, you're like, I was an idiot back then. I didn't know what I wanted. And so God has that hindsight all the time. He doesn't have imperfect vision for anything. So when he's orchestrating the world and the way the world is unfolding, for us to claim the right to have that kind of sovereignty over our own world and our own lives is actually stupidity. Stupidity on our part. Because it's like you're so finite, your vantage point is so limited. You don't, you don't really have a lot of information. Yeah, you have very little information when you think about it. Like we hold very, very little information.

[Al]

Yeah, we had to mature, which is a big maturity point.

[Jay]

Well, another wise man said that, you know, your, your 15 year old self says, you know, I'm looks back when he was a kid. Yeah, like little kids. Well, I was an idiot, you know, and 25, you look back at 15, say I was an idiot. 35, you go, look, 25, say I was idiot. 45. When you get to 55, you say, everybody else is idiots.

[Al]

Yeah, exactly.

[Zach]

Well, but the further you go, you keep looking back, and the point is, now think about how the only thing that gives you that perspective is experience and knowledge. But when you start thinking about your experience and your knowledge, no matter how old you are, compare that to an infinitely knowledgeable being who is everywhere at the Same time who. And he's outside of time. Then it becomes like, wait a second, I'm. So he's been throughout all of history. He knows every moment he's ordained every moment. You start thinking of it like that, then you're like, well, man, I feel like stupid. Up against. Up against him.

[Al]

So let me read this last thing, because I think there's a subtle thing that I know the three of us believe, but that a lot of people don't. When he said, if I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? And so John makes a direct point, and then I think he makes an indirect point at the same time, because he says, because of this, because of Jesus saying that to Peter, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. Now he's talking about himself. But Jesus did not say that he would not die. He only said, if I want him to remain alive until I return. What is that to you? Because then he says, this is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true. So he's talking about himself.

[Jay]

That's why where we get the idea the whole time, because of that verse.

[Al]

And he's also. We know that he had the Revelation, and we quote Revelation a lot on this podcast. That was to John that he would see very much later in life. See, John was the only one that we know of that was passed Jerusalem being destroyed in AD 70. Almost everybody else that we know of was martyred before that point.

[Jay]

Yeah. And we're basing a lot of that.

[Al]

On history books, and we don't know for sure, but our thought is that when Jesus kept talking about that, just like he did remember back when in Luke 24 and Matthew, when he kept talking about coming back on judgment and Judaism and the destruction of the Temple, all those things that we looked at that was going to happen in AD 70. We think that was a major happening. And if you want to call it a return, I mean, that's the way Jesus used that language. He did, you know, Son of Man.

[Jay]

People disagree.

[Al]

They disagree, but we think that's the clue right there as to what he's talking about. So just to make that mention and then let me read the last verse, Jesus did many other things as well. And I love this statement. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written, which is.

[Jay]

What a way to end this book.

[Al]

Pretty amazing.

[Jay]

You're like, wait, what if everything that he did was written down? I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books.

[Al]

That would be written, which is really interesting. Remember, the known world was a lot smaller then than it is now. But I just love the hyperbole that John uses of how big this story is. I mean, that's.

[Jay]

Can you imagine if we did have all those books and people say they want them? I'm like, I don't know.

[Al]

Because that's all we can do with the one book.

[Jay]

Well, there's more arguments over this one book than any other book.

[Al]

One letter on the planet, even just breaking it down.

[Jay]

Which is why I think, though subtly, that point is a point that I make all over the place, which is on the last podcast, when we were talking about that Sabbath and the rest, and I'm like, look, I got a rabbit hole coming. About the use of the symbolic seven and all this. At the end of the day, Jesus said, come to me and I will give you rest. And I think he put that sentence in there to depict this is about a person. We get so hung up on the letters, and we argue about the letters and the Bible, and I hear these people all the time who almost have exalted them. The Bible itself, the letters written more than the creator.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Jay]

It's like they miss the creator who wrote this. And I, I, I don't think that's a good thing.

[Al]

What's that text, Zach, you always mention? Is it John 7, where Jesus told the Pharisees that you, you diligently search the scriptures.

[Jay]

Oh, that's John 5.

[Al]

John 5, yeah.

[Jay]

I've used that verse in more argument. I try not to argue anymore as I'm older, my faith.

[Al]

Is that, Is that true, Zach?

[Jay]

No. Hey, last podcast, in between the podcasts, we had an argument that I tried to stop the entire time.

[Al]

I was like, we had an argument the whole morning, and we did two podcasts in between the argument. That's what was funny.

[Jay]

But I was trying to say, hey, I'm not arguing that. You're missing my point. That was the argument.

[Zach]

I think, I think, I think he's got better. I really do. He's gotten a lot better.

[Al]

But to your point that, that scripture, that one verse, that is the confirmation that we're talking about.

[Jay]

Why don't we need more books? He's like, this is. Put your faith in this guy. When we read that, I think the theme, which is why we think the first book ended in John 20. This is the theme. I love it when Maddie puts the timer up saying we're out of time. But I want to read this because I don't want to miss the theme which I think really is in John 20, when he said Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples. Well, that goes in with this statement. There were way more things that happened that he didn't write down. But these things were written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. We don't need more books, and I.

[Al]

Think that's his point. So this has been a great study. Our next podcast we have some special guests on and one of those podcasts in the new year. We're hoping to do a little bit of an overview to help us transition into first, second, third, John, which is where we're going next.

[Jay]

Oh, I can't wait.

[Al]

It's going to be really good. So happy New Year. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcast and don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.