Season 09 Episode 16: Primum Non Nocere

Summary

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Unexplained – S09E16: Primum Non Nocere

Host: Richard MacLean Smith
Date: April 3, 2026

Overview

In this haunting episode, Richard MacLean Smith explores the tragic and supernatural history of tuberculosis treatment in Kentucky, with a chilling focus on Mammoth Cave and, especially, the infamous Waverly Hills Sanatorium. The episode delves deep into how the medical establishment’s desperate battle against the "White Plague" led to both experimental treatments and enduring legends of suffering, hauntings, and unexplained phenomena.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Mammoth Cave: A Failed Underground Experiment

[03:00]

• Historical Setting:
  In the 1840s, Kentucky's Mammoth Cave (the world’s largest known cave system) was central to an unusual tuberculosis experiment by Dr. John Croghan.

• Croghan’s Theory:
  Influenced by humoral medicine, Croghan believed TB resulted from “excess phlegm” due to environmental imbalances, hoping the cave’s steady climate could cure patients.

  “The answer, therefore, was simple. Find a place offering a consistent dry environment that could help stabilize the patient's imbalanced system. Mammoth Cave fit the bill perfectly.” – Richard MacLean Smith [05:22]

• The Commune:
  In the winter of 1842, 11 TB patients plus companions were moved into roofless stone huts within the cave, served by enslaved people. The only light came from oil lamps and fires, which worsened the conditions.

  • Tourist Attraction and Dignity Lost: Patients became ghoulish attractions for tourists on cave tours:

    “Those who encountered the commune spoke of pale skeletal figures scuttling in and out of the lamplight… The caves reverberated with the constant sound of coughing.” [06:15]

• Result:
  The experiment ended within five months, with multiple deaths, including that of Dr. Croghan himself years later. The fate of many enslaved participants remains unknown.

2. The Rise of Sanatoria: Waverly Hills and The Medicalization of TB

[08:30 - 15:00]

• TB Crisis in Kentucky:
  By the early 1900s, Jefferson County (Louisville) suffered the highest TB infection rate in the nation. With traditional treatments failing, the sanatorium approach—fresh air, nutrition, quarantining—took root.

• Establishment of Waverly Hills:
  A $25,000 grant led to the purchase of land (named after Walter Scott’s "Waverley" novels).

  “Waverly Hills is a primary node on the American Atlas of Bad Places.” [15:13]

  • Facility Growth and Tragedies:

    • Began as basic wooden wards for 40 patients (1910s), ultimately expanding into a five-story Gothic-style hospital (1926) with capacity for 435.
    • Early wards exposed children to infection by housing sick and healthy together.

  • Treatment Methods:

    • Some practices, like heliotherapy, proved helpful.
    • Others, like artificial pneumothorax and “rib removal surgeries,” were brutal and often fatal.

    “Such as the artificial pneumothorax procedure in which balloons would be inserted into the patient's lungs and inflate it, often with disastrous results…” [16:09]

• Decline:
  Streptomycin’s arrival in the 1940s made Waverly, and most sanatoria, obsolete. Official closure came in 1961 after thousands of deaths.

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3. Hauntings and Unexplained Phenomena at Waverly Hills

[20:30 - 41:55]

• Room 502 – The Nurses’ Suicides:

  • Mary Hillenburg’s Tragedy [20:50]: In 1928, nurse Mary Hillenburg hanged herself. Later, a second nurse allegedly leapt off the same balcony.

    • Legends: Some say mental illness was involved, others that Mary was driven by shame from an unwanted pregnancy.
    • Modern-day mediums (2010) claim to have contacted Mary’s spirit, relaying alternate, darker narratives about her death.

    “According to Lynn, when he discovered Mary was pregnant, he convinced her to have an abortion... along with three colleagues, had decided to hang her instead and make her death look like a suicide.” [23:25]

  • Enduring Ghost Story:

    • Cold spots, feelings of depression, and reports of a “female shape dressed in white” and voices screaming "get out."

• The Death Chute (Body Tunnel) [31:25]:

  • A 525-foot tunnel used to discreetly transport bodies, now central in ghostly lore.

  • Sightings include an old man with a dog and a child spirit known as Timmy, popular among ghost hunting teams.

    “According to Tina, ‘I didn’t see it disappear. It didn’t get up and walk away. It just wasn’t there anymore.’” – Tina Mattingly [34:33]

• The Creeper [36:40]:

  • Most notorious entity—shadowy, with disproportionate limbs, seen crawling along ceilings and walls.

  • Visitors typically spot it peripherally, “crawling along the walls or ceiling when the visitor’s back is turned.”

    “A dark figure with arms that seem too long for its body and everything below the waist dwindling into an ill-defined mass.” [37:04]

  • Story of Moira (early 2000s) encountering the Creeper in a bathroom after hearing dragging noises; she fled after it “pulled itself into the bathroom and crept across the ceiling.” [38:00]

• Possible Explanations/Origins:

  • Some claim that patients with behavioral issues had weights chained to their legs, leading to legends of dragging sounds, though this is unverified.

4. The Legacy and Modern Rebirth of Waverly Hills

[39:50 - 41:55]

• After Closure:

  • Became a geriatric hospital facing abuse scandals; repeatedly sold with failed plans (for a prison, apartments, even a giant Jesus statue).

• Current State:

  • Since 2001, the Mattingly family owns the property, now a museum known for its paranormal tours and historical exhibits.

  “Today, if you dare, you can run your own personal expedition into the facility and spend a long night alone inside what some claim to be America’s most haunted hospital.” [41:32]

• Unanswered Mysteries:
  The phenomena and stories, both historical and supernatural, remain “forever unexplained.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Croghan’s experiment:

  “A story-based show mixing spoken-word narrative, history, and ideas—often to terrifying effect—that explores the space between what we think of as real and what is not.” – Episode Introduction [02:36]

• On enduring suffering:

  “The truth, however, will remain forever lost, as patient records were kept off site at an office in Louisville and destroyed in the huge flood of 1937.” [18:17]

• On collective memory and legend:

  “The earliest reports that something more malignant than bacteria lurked in Waverly Hills date back to 1928.” [20:19]

• On meeting the Creeper:

  “Moira fixed her attention on the middle of the doorway where a human would be framed, but it stayed empty. It was only when her gaze jerked upwards, when she saw the long, dark arms reaching around the upper segment of the door.” [38:04]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------------|--------------| | Mammoth Cave TB commune – intro & outcome | 03:00–08:30 | | TB crisis, sanatoria, Waverly Hills foundation | 08:30–15:00 | | Waverly’s growth, treatments, and peak tragedy | 15:00–18:00 | | Hauntings: Room 502, Mary Hillenburg stories | 20:30–26:30 | | The Death Chute and apparitions | 31:25–35:00 | | The Creeper and other unexplained encounters | 36:40–39:50 | | Modern Waverly Hills, museum, and legacy | 39:50–41:55 |

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Structure and Tone

The episode is rich in descriptive storytelling, mixing medical history with eerie supernatural accounts. Richard MacLean Smith’s signature tone is calm, deliberate, and haunting, weaving together personal tragedy, collective desperation, and lingering spectral folklore for maximum atmospheric effect.

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For New Listeners

This episode offers a gripping, densely-researched journey through the shadowy depths of American medical history and the ghost stories it has yielded—perfect for those interested in the intersection of science, suffering, and the supernatural.

Explore further:

• Visit unexplainedpodcast.com
• Engage with Unexplained on social media platforms for more stories
• Consider a nighttime tour of Waverly Hills… if you dare.

Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Richard McLean Smith]

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[Podcast Announcer]

I'm Joe.

[Jonas Brothers (Joe, Kevin, Nick)]

I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called hey Jonas.

[Richard McLean Smith]

We invented a podcast.

[Jonas Brothers (Joe, Kevin, Nick)]

Well, we didn't invent it, we just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

[Robert Smigel]

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guests, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter.

[Jonas Brothers (Joe, Kevin, Nick)]

Where does your group perform?

[Robert Smigel]

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Announcer]

Why are we all so obsessed with romance? On the Radio 831 podcast? Join us Sanjanah Bhasker and Tyler McCall as we unpack all the trending tropes, buzzy adaptations, booktok drama and celebrity love stories with hot takes and sharp guests. Each episode digs into what these stories reveal about desire, fantasy identity and how we love. Now listen to the Radio 831 pod on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Diana Maria Riva]

Hey, I'm Diana Maria Riva. And on my new podcast how hard can it Be? I call on my Gen X squad. From Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic bs unfiltered conversations from night sweats to fupas to scheduling sex. Wait, what sex? Is it just me or does every woman my age want to look at pinterest instead of having sex. Sometimes they say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure gonna try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears or te of laughter. Listen to How Hard Can It Be With Diana Maria Riva on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Richard McLean Smith]

Hello, it's Richard McLean Smith here to let you know that I now have a Substack page. If you enjoy Unexplained and want to go deeper into the world of the show. I've created a new space for all the bits that don't quite fit into the podcast, including the Unexplained Addendum, a weekly companion piece to each new episode. Expect essays that lean more academic and analytical explorations of folklore, psychology and the shadowy corners of history that have shaped the stories you hear on the show. But it's also a home for something more personal my fiction, my strange amusings, and the odd fragments that don't belong anywhere else. Search for Richard Maclean Smith on substack or go to richardmclaimsmith.substack.com to find out more and subscribe. If you'd like a little bit more of me and Unexplained in your week, join me on Substack and let's keep exploring the unknown together. New Writing Most Tuesdays. Deep beneath Edmondson county in the central belt of Kentucky there is a hidden world of rock and shadow. Mammoth Cave is the largest known cave system in the world to date. Over 420 square miles of passageway have been surveyed with additional mapping every year. The vast honeycomb structure encompasses cathedral like vaults, claustrophobic tunnels and the so called bottomless pit that drops for 105ft straight down, ready to swallow anyone who takes an unwary step. It's an awesome but alienating environment. Yet for a short while in the 19th century it was home to a very particular community for whom it offered a last possible antidote to their dwindling hope. Dr. John Croghan was a physician and native of Kentucky who specialised in the study of tuberculosis or tb. Elsewhere in the world the disease was known as consumption scrofula or a host of other names. In Kentucky they called it the White Plague. TB attacks the lungs and respiratory system, consuming the sufferer's energy and ability to breathe until finally they choke on their last breath. For most of humankind's history it has been a death sentence. As late as the 1880s it was approximated that one in seven human beings worldwide died of TB or related conditions. And though the first major progress towards a vaccine was made in 1906, widespread success in treating the disease would not arrive until after the Second World War in the form of antibiotics. But in 1842, Dr. Croghan had a plan. Croghan was a believer in the humoral tradition of medicine, the idea that ailments were due to an imbalance in one or more of the four humours that supposedly regulated the body. As mentioned in our Charles Walton episode a few weeks ago, these were yellow bile, black bile, blood and phlegm. And the white plague, according to Dr. Croghan, could be blamed on excess phlegm brought about by unregulated temperature and humidity. The answer, therefore, was simple. Find a place offering a consistent dry environment that could help stabilize the patient's imbalanced system. Mammoth Cave fit the bill perfectly. Doctor Croghan's ambition was to turn Mammoth Cave into a luxury underground health spa. But he began his experiment with just 15 people, 11 TB infected patients, 4 companions and the child of a patient. They would be fed and served by the enslaved people that had been included in Dr. Croghan's purchase of the cave. The group entered it in the winter of 1842, with the intention of remaining within indefinitely or until sufficiently recovered enough to leave. They lived in roofless stone huts and their only source of light was from oil lamps and fires, both of which filled the caverns with noxious fumes, no doubt ailing their already weakened lungs. To add to the indignity of their suffering, the patients became unwilling exhibitions for tourists who saw them as a novel addition to the long running cave tours. Those who encountered the commune spoke of pale skeletal figures scuttling in and out of the lamplight. The caves reverberated with the constant sound of coughing. The experiment ended after just five months. By then, five of the group had died. At each death, the bodies were laid out on a low flat stone they called Corpse Rock. More would die upon leaving the cave, no doubt further weakened by their time underground. Dr. Croggin himself eventually became infected with TB. He died from the disease in 1849. It isn't known how many of the enslaved people that he forced to take part in this failed endeavour also died as a result. Stephen and Charlotte Bishop and their six year old son Thomas, were three of them. Stephen, who is considered one of the first explorers and guides of the cave system, was only 38 when he died. We can only assume as a result of contracting tb. The fate of his wife and son are not known. Subsequent visitors to the cave have reported hearing strange noises around the site now known as the tuberculosis ward. In particular, they describe hearing shuffling feet, muttering voices, and a chorus of harsh, persistent coughs. As eerie as that echo of the past may be, it is neither the soul nor nor most lingering trace of Kentucky's battle with tuberculosis. The disease would return to wreak havoc again. And next time, the medical establishment's fight back would have loftier ambitions and leave an even more haunting legacy. You're listening to unexplained and I'm Richard McLean Smith. When the white plague returned to Kentucky in the early 1900s, it was Jefferson county that took the brunt as the most densely populated area in the state. Situated along the Ohio river wetlands, Jefferson, and in particular the city of Louisville, was the perfect environment for a highly contagious disease to run rampant. At the turn of the century, it had the highest TB infection rate in the nation. Scant progress had been made in treating the disease beyond the convalescence and quarantine at the core of Dr. Croghan's mammoth cave project. And though the authorities had no desire to follow in the doctor's subterranean footsteps, like him, they sought to remove the infected from society, placing them somewhere clean and comfortable. To attempt what recovery they could, they looked to the sanatorium. The concept was still relatively new in the early 20th century. Built around the idea of nourishment and dry, fresh air, the sanatorium was not a million miles away from what Dr. Croghan had envisioned. Whereas Croghan went down into the earth, however, the more modern sanatoria prized higher altitudes, as doctors theorized that increased external pressure would better match that of the body's interior, enhancing the flow of oxygen carrying blood cells. The first sanatorium designed specifically for the treatment of TB was built in Germany in 1863. From there, the model spread across the high altitude regions of Europe before making the leap to the United States. New York was home to the first American facility, Adirondack Cottage Sanatorium, which opened in 1885. Others followed in North Carolina, Arizona and Oregon. By 1911, need for such an institution was truly dire in Jefferson, Kentucky, especially as the recently commissioned plans for a new Louisville hospital included no provision for TB patients. Instead, the local board of the Tuberculosis association were given a $25,000 grant to build their own bespoke hospital. 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[Jonas Brothers (Joe, Kevin, Nick)]

Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called hey Jonas.

[Richard McLean Smith]

We invented a podcast.

[Jonas Brothers (Joe, Kevin, Nick)]

Well, we didn't invent it. We. We just contributed to it. First people to do podcasts. Pretty. Yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. Starting a trend. But this one's extra special.

[Richard McLean Smith]

So how did we.

[Jonas Brothers (Joe, Kevin, Nick)]

How do we actually come up with the name hey Jonas? Guys, I honestly don't remember.

[Richard McLean Smith]

I think it was on a call

[Jonas Brothers (Joe, Kevin, Nick)]

about what we should call it and well, we were thinking, I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes, I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say hey Jonas. And and then I wrote down on my little notepad hey Jonas. And offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that. Guys. Listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

[Robert Smigel]

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guests SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Sidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter.

[Jonas Brothers (Joe, Kevin, Nick)]

Where does your group perform?

[Robert Smigel]

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Renee Stubbs]

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Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

[Richard McLean Smith]

Waverly Hill was named by the schoolteacher who taught at the one room school that occupied the site. She was a huge fan of Walter Scott's Waverley novels and had named the school accordingly. Her landlord had appreciated the whimsy and applied the name to his whole property. When the Tuberculosis association purchased the land, they kept the name. At some unspecified point in time an S was added, pluralising it to Waverley Hills. The name stuck and has ever since been synonymous with the haunting heritage of early medical practices. Waverly Hills is a primary node on the American Atlas of Bad Places. It began humbly the first iteration of the sanatorium was a simple wooden structure with space for 40 patients in the early stages of the disease. They were split into two wards, each housing 20 patients. These were more pavilion tents than buildings, allowing for the best possible airflow, but presumably less than comfortable in the baking sun or pouring rain. At first the only solid structure was the two storey administration office, where the skeleton staff did the best they could. And it should be said, unlike many supposedly haunted hospitals, Waverley Hills has little history of wanton cruelty. Patients were made as comfortable as possible, seated by large open windows or or on spacious porches for maximum ventilation. Sunlight was key and specialist sunrooms were set up to subject the lungs to bacteria, killing UV light. This approach has since become recognised practice in the treatment of tb. Sadly, other practices were somewhat less efficacious, such as the artificial pneumothorax procedure in which balloons would be inserted into the patient's lungs and inflate it, often with disastrous results. I will leave it to your imagination to guess at what those might have been exactly. Even more extreme cases saw the removal of muscle and rib from the chest, theoretically allowing the lungs more room to expand. It was an extremely violent last resort, and often, if the surgery itself didn't kill, the ensuing infection did. This need for more extreme treatment led to the first expansion of Waverly Hills. In December 1912, the first solid wards were built at Waverley to care for another 40 patients with even more severe symptoms. These were bussed in en masse from the overrun Louisville City Hospital. Two Years later, in 1914, the Children's Pavilion was completed. This housed up to 50 young people, but the tragedy of the arrangement was that in addition to children with tb, the pavilion also housed the uninfected offspring of Waverley's adult patients if they had nowhere else to go. At the time, it wasn't understood that TB largely spreads from person to person through the air. As such, Waverley Hills almost certainly introduced healthy children to the fatal disease. At this point, Waverly had an official capacity of 130 patients. Sadly, this was a drop in the ocean of cases afflicting Jefferson county, and the hastily assembled wooden canvas was proving no match for the Kentucky winters. It wasn't until October 1926 that the FAR more substantial Waverley Hills, as it is known today, was finally constructed. At five storeys high, with room for 435 patients, it was a welcome but foreboding site. Built from red stone in the Victorian Gothic style, it sprawled outward on long wings from a central entrance hall and was dotted with windows that, although provided access to light and fresh air for its patients, seemed also to peer down at approaching visitors like the many eyes of a gigantic spider. This was Waverly Hills in its final form as a sanatorium, a grand edifice to the final decades of humanity's besiegement by the White plague. The widespread introduction of the Streptomycin antibiotic in 1943 saw a rapid decline in the need for convalescence. And by the 1950s, the hospital had become largely redundant. In 1961, it was closed down for good. Thousands of patients met their end there. Exactly how many, it's impossible to say. The lowest estimate is 6,000 deaths, while some claims multiply that up to 10 times. The truth, however, will remain forever lost, as patient records were kept off site at an office in Louisville and destroyed in the huge flood of 1937. Regardless, Waverly Hills saw its fair share of individuals shuffling grimly off this mortal coil. And it's no surprise that there are stories. The earliest reports that something more malignant than bacteria lurked in Waverly Hills date back to 1928. This is the year in which a nurse named Mary Hillenburg hanged herself from the light fixture in room 502, a nurse's station on the fifth floor of the building. It's often been rumoured that the fifth floor was reserved for TB patients who also suffered from severe mental illness. In truth, the top floor was in fact reserved for the most severe infections, where the TB had reached deep into the bone itself. These patients were placed nearest the heliotherapy department for ready access to sunlight on the roof or in a UV room. Most poignantly, the children of the hospital had a swing set built on the roof. Still, the fifth floor was a grim place to work. The precise cause of Mary Hillenburg's suicide is debated. Some speak to the tragic futility of her daily tasks, pushing back against the inevitable deaths of those under her care. The more often repeated theory is that she was pregnant out of wedlock and took her own life out of shame. But some dispute the story. In May 2010, the team at Darkness Radio hosted a paranormal conference in Kentucky and invited guests to join them on a late night excursion to the abandoned shell of Waverly Hills Sanatorium. Among the visitors to the ominous property that night were self described mediums Lynn Sutherland Olson and Rhonda Schindler. Even in daylight, such buildings, their sheer size, their monolithic uniformity, and the combination of tragedy and death that's harboured within will send a shiver up the spine. But at night, as the moon peeks out intermittently from behind the scudding clouds above, with the black mass of the Gothic style sanatorium looming over you, the dark rooms behind its windows even blacker still, the eeriness can become all consuming. And so it was with no little trepidation that Lyn and Rhonda, along with the handful of other visitors attending that night, entered the building's front doors before pressing on into the seemingly endless labyrinth of darkened corridors beyond. As the visitors fanned out, each felt their own way along whatever strange essence of the past they seemed to have tuned into. As they all steadily wandered deeper into the building, Lyn and Rhonda eventually found their way to the third floor. It was there that Lyn claimed that something suddenly made contact with Rhonda. She called herself Mary. Though Lynn and Rhonda were aware of room 502 and its unsettling reputation, both claimed not to have heard the name Mary associated with it before. As this apparent entity spoke to Rhonda, she in turn relayed the story to Lyn about how she'd met her untimely end in room 502. Arriving outside the room sometime later, both Lyn and Rhonda immediately sensed a wicked energy emanating from inside of it. Rhonda claimed to sense Mary's presence again and quickly struck up another conversation with the apparent entity. Linda, meanwhile, claimed to pick up an equally tortured presence in the room's adjoining bathroom. Writing about the experience later on her own WordPress site, Linda claimed it was the spirit of a former intern, the man who'd supposedly got Mary pregnant, which some believed was the reason the woman had taken her own life. Only that wasn't the end. According to Lynn. It was some weeks later that Lynn and Rhonda decided to try and reconnect with Mary once again. This time, the story Mary apparently gave Rhonda was very different. The man Lynn had apparently met in the bathroom of room 502 wasn't just the father of Mary's unborn child. He was also their murderer, or one of them. In any case, according to Lynn, when he discovered Mary was pregnant, he convinced her to have an abortion to save himself the shame of fathering a child out of wedlock with a woman that his parents apparently didn't approve of. Lynn recounted a vision of Mary's hanging body with her lower half drenched in blood, supposedly from the botched abortion. Rather than wait for her to bleed out, the Internet, along with three colleagues, had decided to hang her instead and make her death look like a suicide. Though quite how they were planning to explain away the blood from a botched abortion is anyone's guess. Either way, there really was a Mary Hillenburg who was found hanged in room 502. And regardless of the truth of how or why, the room inevitably developed a sinister reputation soon after, and perhaps an energy all of its own. Four years later, in the winter of 1932, another nurse is said to have thrown herself from the room's balcony. Though several colleagues tried to stop her, she slipped by them and leapt, plummeting to the lawn below. Unlike Mary Hillenburg, this other nurse's name has been lost to time. Is it a true story? Did something in the room somehow make her do it? Or is it simply one more legend folded into the history of Waverly Hills? Whatever the case may be, what is certain are the many complaints and claims made by staff and patients who spent time in the eerie property over the years. Many are said to have reported feeling cold spots in the rooms on even the most humid of days, or a feeling of intense depression that dissipated the moment they left. Several nurses claim to see a dim female shape dressed in white and a disembodied voice screaming get out. Vibe coding is everywhere right now, but it's not just for apps anymore. Now it's making its way into website creation. WIX has introduced WIX Harmony, a vibe coder for websites that lets you type what you want and generate a site ready to use right away, complete with forms, payments, security and more built in. And WIX Harmony doesn't require AI for everything. You can still click and edit anything manually or select an element and have Aria, your AI agent, make the updates for you. It's a smart solution to the frustration of repeatedly prompting AI just to make small changes. Try it for [e-mail] Harmony that's Wix W- dot com Harmony want to get

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[Jonas Brothers (Joe, Kevin, Nick)]

Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called hey Jonas.

[Richard McLean Smith]

We invented a podcast.

[Jonas Brothers (Joe, Kevin, Nick)]

Well, we didn't invent it, we. We just contributed to it. First people to do podcasts. Pretty. Yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts, but this one's extra special.

[Richard McLean Smith]

So how did we.

[Jonas Brothers (Joe, Kevin, Nick)]

How do we actually come up with the name hey Jonas? Guys, I honestly don't remember.

[Richard McLean Smith]

I think it was on a call

[Jonas Brothers (Joe, Kevin, Nick)]

about what we should call it and well, we were thinking, I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes, I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad hey Jonas. And offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that. Guys, listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

[Robert Smigel]

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guests, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter.

[Jonas Brothers (Joe, Kevin, Nick)]

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

[Robert Smigel]

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Renee Stubbs]

The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garros, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jen Chin she won.

[Richard McLean Smith]

I mean, she went down a three

[Renee Stubbs]

to Rybakina, but I'm delighted she's an outsider to win the French for me

[Richard McLean Smith]

and she likes clay.

[Renee Stubbs]

Listen, Lena Rybakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving well, good luck. Consider this your courtside seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Announcer]

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

[Richard McLean Smith]

Two months after Lynn and Rhonda's visit in 2010, one of Waverly Hills current owners, Charlie Mattingly, was apparently alone at the property when a woman arrived claiming to be working on post production for a paranormal show that had recently filmed there. After Charlie let her into the building, she climbed the stairs from the main hallway and quickly slipped out of sight. Slightly irked by her uninvited arrival, Charlie called the number he'd been given by the production company to check her credentials. The company told him that they hadn't sent anyone to Waverly Hills that day. Charlie radioed his security staff, and two members of the team were promptly dispatched to find the mysterious woman. They eventually caught up with her on the third floor landing, where she admitted she'd lied to gain admittance, though she apparently wouldn't give them her name, she explained that she was a medium who'd been drawn to the third floor of the old sanatorium after making contact with the spirit of a young girl named Mary. Charlie was immediately skeptical. Accounts of the hospital's apparent hauntings were hardly kept secret, and Mary was just about the most obvious name the so called medium could have plucked out of the air. He was about to demand she leave when she suddenly jerked to attention and fixed her gaze on a nearby door. Since he didn't want to manhandle a stranger, Charlie was content to let her cross the corridor and wander into the room beyond. This was Mary's room, she said. If you look in the closet, you'll find her things. By now, a little curious himself, Charlie obliged. But when he opened the closet. All he could see was dust and scattered debris. But before he could say a word, the woman stepped up beside him and said, you're looking in the wrong place. She pointed to the back of the closet, where a crack in the plaster exposed a cavity. Charlie reached in and felt several loose objects. First he pulled out a metal fork, which everyone present could only look at in confusion, followed by a single small house slipper. Then he reached behind the plaster again and withdrew three brown photographs. The first was of a stretch of rural road, empty and tree lined. The second captured a group of four middle aged men sitting on a wall, seemingly at rest from work. The final photograph was of a young woman with a shy smile and long brown hair. On the back, in neat cursive was written the name Mary Lee. At this point, according to Charlie, the mysterious woman gave a slight smile and left the room. Despite calling her back, she apparently ignored them, descended the stairs and left the hospital. No one to this day knows her name or who she really was. Every floor of Waverly Hills has its own share of legend and encounter. On the ground floor of the north wing there is a pair of old stained wooden doors. They give access to a grim concrete tunnel running 525ft on a downward slant. The tunnel was once equipped with a pulley car system to carry supplies from the bottom of the hill. However, at the peak of the hospital's capacity, the death chute, as it was morbidly named, was used to discreetly transport bodies down to a receiving hearse. During those peak years, over a thousand bodies made their final journey through this dark conduit. It's no surprise that such a macabre feature has become an epicentre for much of the hospital's alleged uncanny activity. Several ghosts are said to appear in and around the tunnel, including the shade of an old man and his dog. Tina Mattingly, the wife of Charlie and co owner of the property, told BuzzFeed reporters that while locking up after a guided tour, she saw a tall, dishevelled man with long thinning hair. He didn't move, simply stared, caught in the beam of her flashlight. Tina jumped back in shock and lost sight of him. After collecting herself, she began to explore nearby rooms, looking for what she presumed was a member of the tour or an intruder. But the man was nowhere to be seen. Returning to the main corridor, she looked down to where a German shepherd dog was lying calmly on the floor. She called to it, but it refused to move. After a second, it was gone. According to Tina, I didn't see it disappear. It didn't get up and walk away. It just wasn't there anymore. Tina likes to think that even if what remains of the old man is stuck in the grounds of the hospital, then at least he's with his best friend. The apparent ghost most associated with the tunnel and ground floor is similarly benign. Many visitors claim to have interacted with the shadow of a young boy who, legend has it, was named Timmy. According to law, Timmy first came to the hospital in 1930 when he was six, accompanying his infected parents. When they died in the upper wards, Timmy was placed in the Children's Hospital where he first caught the disease and then succumbed to it. He is apparently seen throughout the grounds, but mostly at the tunnel entrance. Timmy has become the focus of most ghost hunting expeditions to Waverley Hills, both because of the mass of physical phenomena associated with its presence, but also because the playful spirit of a six year old boy is a far less fearsome prospect than other lingering residents. After all, no one wants to meet the Creeper. Of all the entities encountered in Waverly Hills, the shadowy figure known as the Creeper has the most fearsome reputation. Said to have been encountered all over the hospital, but most associated with the second and fourth floors, the Creeper is said to be a humanoid figure seemingly made from nothing and but corporeal shadow. Those who claim to have seen it, and there are many, describe it in unnervingly consistent terms as a dark figure with arms that seem too long for its body and everything below the waist dwindling into an ill defined mass. It rarely approaches directly and is most often spotted from the corner of a nervous eye crawling along the walls or ceiling when the visitor's back is turned. Many photos have been taken of strange out of place shadows in the halls that make no sense in relation to light sources. In the early 2000s, a woman named Moira was taking part in a guided tour of the sanatorium when she started to feel a little too unnerved by the stories of death and disease. While the tour guide was showing off the heliotherapy rooms on the fifth floor floor, Moira excused herself and descended to the second floor to use one of the renovated bathrooms. Stepping inside, she was immediately surprised by a distinct chill in the room. Despite it being a pleasant day outside and the windows being closed, Moira was about to enter a cubicle when she heard the unsettling sound of heavy dragging coming from the corridor beyond. Then the door slowly groaned open. Moira fixed her attention on the middle of the doorway where a human would be framed, but it stayed empty. It was only when her gaze jerked upwards, when she saw the long, dark arms reaching around the upper segment of the door. Moira claims that a human torso then pulled itself into the bathroom and crept across the ceiling in a series of uncanny jerking movements. The thing, whatever it was, is said to have pursued Moira into a cubicle before she eventually managed to run away and rejoin the group. After reporting what had happened to the tour guide, she was met with only a knowing smile. Despite years of research and apparent encounters, no one has ever found a cause, backstory or explanation for that. Most sinister of Waverley's residents, co owner Tina Mattingly claims that some troublesome patients were kept from roaming the halls by having weights attached to their legs. If any staff heard the dragging of the irons, they would know that someone was out of their room, though this has never been verified. For the next half century after it ceased to be a sanatorium, Waverly Hills went through various owners and reincarnations. From 1962 to 1980, it was a geriatric care facility which was eventually shut down amid controversy about patient cruelty, including the liberal application of electroshock therapy. After that, it stood empty for 20 years. One developer, J. Clifford Todd, had plans to reopen it as a prison and, failing that, luxury apartments, but in the end couldn't raise the capital. A subsequent owner had plans to demolish the hospital and replace it with the world's largest statue of Jesus. The project fell short of its fundraising aims and Waverly Hills continued its lonely vigil as just another dilapidated ruin on the edge of an American town, gathering shadows and rumours along with its dust. Finally, in 2001, a full 40 years after it closed its doors on the last TB patient, the property was purchased by the Mattinglys. Rather than demolishing the ruin, the Mattinglys turned it into a museum and leased it to the Waverly Hills Historical Society, who run regular tours of both the history and the hauntings. Today, if you dare, you can run your own personal expedition into the facility and spend a long night alone inside what some claim to be America's most haunted hospital. But the precise nature of just who or what you might encounter there seems destined to forever remain unexplained. This episode was written by Neil McRobert and produced by Richard McLean Smith. Thank you as ever for listening. Unexplained is an AV Club Productions podcast created by Richard Maclean Smith. All other elements of the podcast, including the music, are also produced by me, Richard McLean Smith unexplained the book and audiobook is now available to buy worldwide. You can purchase from Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Waterstones, and other bookstores. Please subscribe to and rate the show wherever you get your podcasts, and feel free to get in touch with any thoughts or ideas regarding the stories you've heard on the show. Perhaps you have an explanation or a story of your own you'd like to share. You can find out more@ unexplainedpodcast.com and reach us online through X and Blue sky at Unexplained Pod and [e-mail] unexplainedpodcast.

[Podcast Announcer]

Want to be a star? No problem. Anyone can shine on TikTok. Post your first video today. Real life, real story.

[Richard McLean Smith]

Real you.

[Podcast Announcer]

Download TikTok and get started.

[Jonas Brothers (Joe, Kevin, Nick)]

Hey guys, it's us, the Jonas Brothers.

[Podcast Announcer]

I'm Joe.

[Jonas Brothers (Joe, Kevin, Nick)]

I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called hey Jonas.

[Richard McLean Smith]

We invented a podcast.

[Jonas Brothers (Joe, Kevin, Nick)]

Well, we didn't invent it, we we just contributed to it. People to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

[Robert Smigel]

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guests, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Sydal help an acapella band with their between songs Banter.

[Jonas Brothers (Joe, Kevin, Nick)]

Where does your group perform?

[Robert Smigel]

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Announcer]

Why are we all so obsessed with romance? On the Radio 831 podcast? Join us Sanjanah Bhasker and Tyler McC as we unpack all the trending tropes, buzzy adaptations, booktok drama and celebrity love stories with hot takes and sharp guests. Each episode digs into what these stories reveal about desire, fantasy, identity and how we love. Now Listen to the Radio 831 podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Diana Maria Riva]

Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva and on my new podcast How Hard can it be? I call on my Gen X squad from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most famous fantastic bs Unfiltered conversations from night sweats to fupas to scheduling sex. Wait, what sex? Is it just me, or does every woman my age want to look at Pinterest instead of having sex? Sometimes they say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure gonna try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter. Listen to How Hard Can It Be With Diana Maria Riva on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Richard McLean Smith]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Podcast Announcer]

Guaranteed Human.