Film of the month: Bobby (2006)

Summary

---

United States of Kennedy – “Film of the Month: Bobby (2006)”

Podcast: United States of Kennedy
Hosts: George Civeris, Julia Claire (guest, comedian/writer at Crooked Media)
Episode Date: October 27, 2025
Episode Focus: A critical, lively review of Emilio Estevez’s 2006 film Bobby, examining its take on Robert F. Kennedy (RFK), its all-star ensemble, and its place in Kennedy pop culture.

---

Overview

This episode explores the 2006 film Bobby, written and directed by Emilio Estevez, which dramatizes the day RFK was assassinated at the Ambassador Hotel through the eyes of various fictionalized characters. Hosts George and guest Julia discuss the movie’s approach to history, its massive cast, its emotional ambitions, and where it falters (and occasionally succeeds) as a tribute to RFK and the turbulent era of the late 1960s.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kennedy Fascination: Personal and Cultural

• Julia shares her longstanding obsession with the Kennedys, especially Bobby, having read Larry Tye’s Bobby Kennedy biography years ago (05:05).
  • “I think there's a Massachusetts specific fascination with the Kennedys that's not entirely healthy.” – Julia (05:31)
• Both agree Bobby and Ted are more interesting than JFK, highlighting Bobby’s emotional complexity and Ted’s longevity in public life (06:32, 07:05).

2. RFK: Legacy and Contradictions

• Bobby is portrayed as the 'emotional' Kennedy – complex, temperamental, with a “notoriously terrible temper … a little teapot waiting to blow.” – Julia (06:32)
• The film’s hagiographic tone is critiqued:
  • “It is a classic ensemble movie that doesn’t quite add up to more than the sum of its parts.” – George (02:46)
  • Both hosts point out that RFK’s record on civil rights (including his connection to Joseph McCarthy and MLK wiretaps) is glossed over (08:34).
• Famous scene recounted: Bobby’s contentious meeting with civil rights leaders organized by James Baldwin, in which RFK seeks validation but instead is told he hasn’t done enough (10:48). “He was pissed at the time. He wanted to be celebrated for being a civil rights champion.” – Julia (11:13)

3. How the Film Was Made (Casting & Sentiment)

• Anthony Hopkins was first to sign on, sparking a “domino effect” among A-listers—all reportedly worked for scale due to their passion for the project (20:51–22:38).
  • “...all these big actors basically just had five lines. I am sure that for Sharon Stone it was one day on set.” – George (22:46)
• Not much critical bite: “A movie like this, it would be very easy to pretend you’re being a little more objective... but every single storyline, it’s like the arc of the universe bends towards Bobby Kennedy being the perfect American.” – George (12:40)

4. Ensemble Structure: Successes and Pitfalls

• Hosts attempt to catalog the sprawling cast and their interconnected, synecdoche-like stories (15:44–17:45). Notably:
  • Anthony Hopkins and Harry Belafonte as wise old friends in the hotel.
  • Lindsay Lohan marries Elijah Wood’s character to keep him out of Vietnam; inspired by a real incident (16:01).
  • Sharon Stone as salon worker, William H. Macy as hotel manager, Demi Moore as an alcoholic singer, and so on.
• The film’s structure is likened to Robert Altman’s Nashville, but, “It’s like the Altman ensemble thing, except none of the stories really connect in a satisfying way.” – Julia (17:45)
• Sharon Stone’s character is unique in not being a direct symbol of a 1960s “social issue,” making her the most believable (27:32).

5. Best and Worst Performances

• MVPs: Anthony Hopkins, Laurence Fishburne, and Sharon Stone—“It’s basically like they’re acting in a different movie.” – Julia (23:26)
• Memorable/Laughable: Helen Hunt’s “black shoe monologue” about the injustice of mismatched shoes for rich women is lampooned for its shallow feminism (24:07).
• Nick Cannon’s performance is flagged as “the most unforgivable overacting in the whole movie” (34:51), notably saddled with lines like “Now that Dr. King is dead, Bobby is all we have” (09:48, 35:03).

6. Critique of Direction and Screenplay

• The film is seen as “a labor of love” but uneven—George calls it a “tepid flop” (48:02).
• Repeated theme: Estevez’s heartfelt but clumsy approach—“Honey, he should have had a team.” – Julia (12:18)
• Some moments are genuinely moving, mainly due to powerful archival footage and music rather than the fictionalized drama.
  • “...the last five minutes of it, I’m getting a lump in my throat. And that’s crazy.” – Julia (30:03)
• The film tries to address every social issue at once, resulting in shallow segments and underdeveloped characters—“The film sacrifices depth for breadth.” – George (31:21)

7. Iconic/Cringeworthy Moments

• LSD Acid Trip Sequence (32:08–33:21): A bizarre, over-stylized detour with Shia LaBeouf and Ashton Kutcher, featuring green-screen hallucinations, described as “a crazy thing to put in the middle of this movie.”
• Demi Moore’s Cabaret Performance: Her “Louie Louie” cover and grand hair become running gags.
  • “She’s like, I’m here to slay. Like, I came here to play a drunk cabaret singer, and I do not even know who y’all are voting for.” – George (44:35)
• Sharon Stone’s nail salon scene is cited for authentic emotional resonance; Demi Moore’s meltdown—“We’re all whores. Some of us are just paid for it.” – Demi Moore as Virginia Fallon (27:06, 44:36).

8. Historical Accuracy and RFK Portrayal

• Strong praise for NOT casting an actor as RFK—his presence is brought in entirely via archival footage (38:38):
  • “I really liked that....when he is shot, and then there is a scene being filmed around him, it seamlessly switches into archival footage.” – George (38:58)
• Julia believes the film fairly reflects RFK’s effect on those who loved him: “He really touched people. He was so emotional himself....Everything for him was visceral and tactile.” – Julia (41:22)

9. Final Takes and Lingering Questions

• The ambiguous fate of several characters post-shooting is noted, with the ending making it unclear who lived or died. Only the final title card clarifies this (49:19).
• The film is ultimately labeled “pretty boring, honestly” and emblematic of a missed opportunity, but not without fleeting power thanks to real footage and music (“The Sound of Silence” montage gets a mention for inducing chills, 29:12).

---

Notable Quotes & Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• “I cracked open my Bobby Kennedy biography for the first time in years.” – Julia (05:05)
• “It almost feels like famous Oscar-nominated actors were walking by the set and the director was like, do you want to just come in for one scene?” – George (04:54)
• “He was not as naturally smart as Jack. Definitely not as naturally charismatic.” – Julia (07:51)
• “He completely fucked that up as well after, like, years of trying to make it his signature, number one thing. But I think maybe the propaganda of this movie partly worked on me.” – George (08:01)
• “The hagiographic tone of the movie really cannot be overstated.” – George (11:46)
• “If this movie had 30% more her [Sharon Stone]...it would have been a lot better.” – Julia (27:55)
• “The last five minutes of it, I’m getting a lump in my throat. And that’s crazy.” – Julia (30:03)
• “He died as just a symbol of hope and change. To quote a different politician.” – George (42:45)

---

Segment Timestamps

• 02:46 — Summary of Bobby’s history, assassination context, and the film’s premise
• 05:05–07:05 — Julia’s personal Kennedy & RFK fascination
• 08:34–11:13 — Civil rights, Bobby’s controversial legacy, Belafonte/Baldwin meeting
• 12:07–13:22 — Emilio Estevez’s Kennedy connection, making of Bobby
• 15:44–17:45 — Rundown of ensemble cast and characters
• 20:51–22:38 — How Anthony Hopkins recruited the cast, film as “passion project”
• 23:26–24:07 — MVP actors and the infamous “black shoe monologue”
• 27:06–27:32 — Standout Sharon Stone, archetypal vs. real characters
• 29:12–30:11 — Montage, archival footage, and emotional payoff
• 31:21–32:47 — LSD sequence, film’s lack of focus
• 38:38–39:54 — Praise for only using archival Bobby footage
• 41:22–43:27 — How well the film captures the real Bobby’s charisma/legacy
• 44:35–46:21 — Demi Moore’s performance; “We’re all whores” scene
• 47:21–47:39 — Sharon Stone’s improv haircut of W.H. Macy
• 48:01–48:49 — Film as “tepid flop,” Lindsay Lohan as “our Bobby Kennedy”
• 49:19–50:08 — End confusion: who died, who lived

---

Conclusion

Despite a sincere, even loving attempt at broad historical resonance and an all-star cast, Bobby misfires as both drama and history lesson, saved only momentarily by its real archival material and the odd actor who seems to be in another, better film. The discussion is equal parts affectionate lampoon and wistful “what could have been”—reflecting a cultural Kennedy obsession that, like the subject’s legacy, refuses to die.

---

Transcript

[Julia Claire]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[IBM Advertiser]

If you're waiting for your AI to turn into ROI and wondering how long you have to wait, maybe you need to do more than wait. Any business can use AI. IBM helps you use AI to change how you do business. Let's create smarter business. IBM.

[Nuremberg Movie Trailer Announcer]

In the aftermath of World War II, as the world confronts the horrors of the Holocaust, U.S. army psychiatrist Lt. Col. Douglas Kelly is tasked with evaluating Hermann Goering, Hitler's second in command. Meanwhile, Chief Prosecutor Robert H. Jackson leads the Allies in forming an unprecedented international tribunal for the trial of the century. As Dr. Kelly delves deeper into Guring's psyche, a tense psychological duel unfolds. Nuremberg Starring Russell Crowe, Rami Malek, Leo Woodall and Michael Shannon. Only in theaters November 7th.

[Flav City Advertiser]

Tired of mystery ingredients you can't even pronounce? Meet Flav City with only real ingredients that actually fuel your day. Their all in one. Protein smoothie is ready in 20 seconds with 25 grams of protein, 10 grams of collagen, real fruit and real functional mushrooms. Just scoop, shake and sip. No blender needed. And this season, the limited edition Pumpkin Spice Latte Protein Smoothie is back. Caffeine, protein and actual pumpkin and spices in one delicious sip. But hurry, it always sells out. Go to shopflavcity.com and grab yours before it's gone.

[Morton Buildings Advertiser]

Looking to build before next spring? Order now with Morton Buildings and get site Prep savings by October 31st. Get ahead of winter weather and save big through the end of October on select projects during Morton Building's Winter Build Sales event. If you need a garage, a stall barn, a storage building for an RV boat or other vehicles, a shop for your farm hobbies or car restoration projects or anything in between. Take advantage of this special savings now. Morton Buildings uses quality materials and expert craftsmen with an industry leading warranty to ensure your addition is built stronger, lasts longer and looks better. We'll be working all winter long, but the building spots are limited. With offers this great, why wait? Visit MortonBuildings.com and click Get Started. Today, certain restrictions may apply. Savings offer on new building purchases by October 31, 2025. Building delivery required by April 30, 2026. Contact your local Morton office for more details.

[George Severis]

I'm George Severis and this is United States of Kennedy, a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Ken Dynasty. Every week we go into one aspect of the Kennedy story and today we are Talking about the 2006 film Bobby, written and directed by Emilio Estevez and featuring a star studded ensemble cast including everyone from Anthony Hopkins and Sharon Stone to Lindsay Lohan and Nick Cannon. So on June 5, 1968, the day after winning the California Democratic primary for president, Robert F. Kennedy was shot and killed by a man named Sirhan Sirhan at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles. It was one of the four major political assassinations in the US in the 1960s, along with those of President John F. Kennedy, Malcolm X, and Martin Luther King Jr. The last of which happened only two months earlier. The 2006 film Bobby Tells the interconnected stories of a group of fictional characters staying at the Ambassador Hotel the day Bobby was shot. Their stories are meant to reflect the social and political issues of the time, such as racism, the civil rights movement, the Vietnam War, the popularity of psychedelic drugs, and changing attitudes around feminism and women's rights. Now that all sounds good, but unfortunately it is a classic ensemble movie that doesn't quite add up to more than the sum of its parts. It was neither a critical nor a commercial hit, although it was nominated for both a SAG Award and a Critics Choice Award for Best Ensemble cast. So I wanted to discuss the ups and downs of this movie with someone who truly has a well of Kennedy knowledge, my good friend, Julia Claire. Julia is a brilliant comedian and currently a writer of all kinds at Crooked Media. She's also one of the biggest history buffs I know, so I can't wait. Julia, hello.

[Julia Claire]

Hi.

[George Severis]

Thank you so much for being here to chat about the incredible 2006 film Bobby. This is one of those movies that is a classic this had Oscar buzz movie. There is a podcast called this had Oscar Buzz where every week they talk about a movie that was clearly designed to get awards recognition and then it somehow never did.

[Julia Claire]

There has never been a movie that fits that description.

[George Severis]

More than this, it almost feels like famous Oscar nominated actors were walking by the set and the director was like, do you want to just come in for one scene? We'll write you something.

[Julia Claire]

Come in.

[George Severis]

Come on, we can improv. It'll be great. So before we get into the movie, I do want to talk a little bit about your relationship with the Kennedys writ large. Because of course, when I texted you last night asking how you enjoyed the movie, you said to me, I cracked open my Bobby Kennedy biography for the first time in years. Meaning that this is something you own and consult like one would the Bible, every few years.

[Julia Claire]

Sure, sure. As one does. Yeah. It's Bobby Kennedy by Larry Tighe, longtime Boston Globe reporter. I read the book 10 years ago. You know, I'm from Massachusetts. I think that even more so than just being an American. I think there's a Massachusetts specific fascination with the Kennedys that's not entirely healthy. My grandparents actually hated the Kennedys, unsurprisingly. My Boston cop grandfather was not a huge JFK fan. I think it was a class thing, too. There were some people for whom the Kennedys were aspirational if they were, you know, lower middle class or poor. And my grandparents, it was not like that. They just saw them as spoiled and entitled.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I think. Well, okay, you're from Massachusetts. You're Catholic. You were a history major, correct?

[Julia Claire]

That's right.

[George Severis]

And, like, American history, right?

[Julia Claire]

No, actually it was European history, but I love history.

[George Severis]

You love history?

[Julia Claire]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

So it's a natural fit that you would gravitate towards the Kennedys.

[Julia Claire]

Right.

[George Severis]

And why Bobby in particular?

[Julia Claire]

Bobby is just, like, more interesting to me than JFK by a long shot. I know you guys have done two episodes on Chappaquiddick. I'm also much more interested in Teddy than I am in Jack. But Bobby is. He was just much more emotional. He's just a fascinating character to me. He was the least handsome, smallest runt of the litter and had a notorious terrible temper. Just a little teapot waiting to blow.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I completely agree that. I find both Bobby and Ted more interesting. Basically, as we do research for each of these episodes, my actual knowledge gets slightly less spotty with each week. And I have a depth of knowledge about one event, but then have no idea what happened the year after that. And the thing with Ted is, on the one hand, Chappaquiddick on its own is such a shocking story that already that hooks you in. But then he also, just by virtue of living longer, just had this very long career. And you could actually write a very robust biography of him because he was in the government for decades. And then Bobby, he was, I think, also just smarter than Jack. He was the brains of the operation when he was his attorney general. Would you say that is accurate or.

[Julia Claire]

Initially in their youth? That is not how Larry Tighe categorized it. He said that he was not as naturally smart as Jack. Definitely not as naturally charismatic.

[George Severis]

You know what it is? It's like, because he didn't have that natural charisma, my mind goes to, oh, well, he must have been book smart. And he must have been the one that was behind the scenes operating everything because he wasn't good on tv. But in fact, that's also not true because I'm now remembering we did this whole episode about him taking on organized Crime and taking on Jimmy Hoffa. And in fact, he completely fucked that up as well after, like, years of trying to make it his signature, number one thing. But I think maybe the propaganda of this movie partly worked on me. And then I came out being like, wow, he really was the last hope for America.

[Julia Claire]

I know, I know. And there's also a lot in this about him being the last man standing in the civil rights movement, which he went on a real journey with that. Like, he started his career, his legislative career, as an aide to Senator Joseph McCarthy. And also much later, obviously, we can all be excused for our youthful indiscretions of working with Senator Joseph McCarthy. But everyone forgets that he personally authorized the FBI wiretapping of Martin Luther King, right?

[George Severis]

And this is a historical spotty memory that somehow everyone on the center to center left seems to have about all the Kennedys, because people often, when I read things about jfk, people just completely uncritically will refer to him as a champion for civil rights. That was something that was very carefully poll tested. How much she can say and how much she can extend an olive branch to people that were asking for civil rights while not alienating Southern Democrats and this and that. And this movie literally has a line, we're jumping ahead. This was one of my stray thoughts. Nick Cannon, Spoiler alert. Nick Cannon is in this movie. Nick Cannon literally says, now that Dr. King is gone, no one left but Bobby but Bob. That's right.

[Julia Claire]

It's. That's crazy. And that's also crazy because the other candidate in the primary, this was after Johnson had dropped out, was Eugene McCarthy, who voted for the Civil Rights act, the Voting Rights Act. He actually was a champion for civil rights in a lot of different ways. But the Nick Cannon of it all. We'll get to that. But the one thing that all these years later stuck in my mind from that Bobby Kennedy biography was this scene where in 1963, Bobby invited a bunch of civil rights icons to his house to talk about why black Americans were gravitating towards more violent black nationalists like Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam and all that. And essentially he was looking for basically all of them to be like, wow, you guys are doing an amazing job. Because he didn't invite anyone from the NAACP or the Urban League. He didn't invite Martin Luther King, obviously, just authorized his wiretap. So he had James Baldwin put together a group of artists and intellectuals and activists, and he was again looking for them to tell him what a great job the Kennedy administration was doing. And Then there was this one activist who had been beaten by cops so many times, and he was just like, you haven't done enough. And that became the tone of the meeting. And Harry Belafonte, who is in. Bobby was in that meeting.

[George Severis]

Oh, my God.

[Julia Claire]

And Harry Belafonte and Bobby were pretty friendly. And after the meeting, Bobby was like, why didn't you stick up for me? Wow. And he was like, I would lose all credibility in this space if I had done that. But, yeah, it was like Lena Horne, Harry Belafonte, James Baldwin, and a number of other politically active black celebrities and public figures who just read him the riot act. And he was pissed at the time. He wanted to be celebrated for being a civil rights champion.

[George Severis]

Yeah, well, he finally got it all those years later in 2006 as Bobby. I mean, the hagiographic tone of the movie really cannot be overstated. And I think you're saying Harry Belafonte was a friend of his, and he's not the only one that has a clear emotional connection to the Kennedys in the movie. So Emilio Estevez, who directed the movie, who.

[Julia Claire]

And wrote it.

[George Severis]

And wrote it. Yes. Thank you. And wrote it by himself, by the way. Sometimes when you have one of these people, that's like an actor that became a director, there's a team of people who are helping. And this literally just says, written and directed by Emilia Estevez.

[Julia Claire]

And Honey, Honey, he should have had a team.

[George Severis]

And you know what? It shows for anyone who doesn't, you know, any younger listeners. Emilio Estevez, first of all, son of Martin Sheen, brother of Charlie Sheen, was a member of the Brat Pack of actors in the 80s. He was in the Breakfast Club, which is a funny sort of connection he has to Demi Moore, who's also in this movie because she was part of that general.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah, they were in St. Elmo's Fire together.

[George Severis]

Yeah. So anyway, Emilio Estevez has distinct memories of learning about Bobby being assassinated when he was a kid. And Martin Sheen, his father, was a huge Kennedy supporter. So they're just going in with all this love for the Kennedys. And a movie like this, it would be very easy to add, just for the sake of pretending you're being a little more objective, to just add one storyline that's, like, slightly critical, but every single storyline, it's like the arc of the universe bends towards Bobby Kennedy being the perfect American.

[Julia Claire]

That's right. That's right. Even the Christian Slater character, who's supposed to be the racist one, he ultimately comes out being forever changed by this.

[George Severis]

In a way that ends up being forever changed and by just the presence of Bobby. It's like Bobby basically convinces him via his speech not to be a racist. By the end of the movie, there is a whole. Joshua Jackson plays Bobby's campaign manager. And one of his subplots is that he doesn't want this Czechoslovakian journalist to interview Bobby. But then she convinces him that he should be supportive of other perspectives. And then he says, of course you can come and I'll make sure you have a spot at the press conference or whatever. Anyway, so this is a great time to get into the nitty gritty of the movie. As we mentioned, this is one of those movies that is just like a giant ensemble cast. Everyone has 10 lines tops. And I don't know if the structure is based on Robert Altman's Nashville, but it is very similar in that Robert Altman's Nashville is also about this giant kind of cast of characters. And it takes place over the span of, I want to say, a week. And it's leading up to this big benefit concert for some outsider political candidate. And similarly with Bobby, it's set in the Ambassador Hotel the day of the California primary. And it's all leading to a victory speech that Bobby is going to make. He wins the California primary and then of course, is shot and killed right after. And so it follows the lives of various people staying in that hotel for various reasons and very heavy handedly, one could say, explores how their individual lives intersect with larger political themes of the day. So I just want to go through all the different actors and characters very quickly. Anthony Hopkins is a retired hotel doorman who just hangs her out at the hotel because he loved his job so much when he was a doorman at the hotel. He's constantly talking to his random friend, played by Harry Belafonte. They're playing chess together. They're talking about aging. It's two wise old men chatting. Lindsay Lohan is is marrying Elijah Wood with the hope that if they get married, he will be deployed to Germany instead of Vietnam, which is something that happened a lot at that time. People would get married specifically for this purpose. And also, Emilio Estevez, in fact, met a woman who had done that. And that is what inspired him to write the movie. So he built the movie around that character. All right, very quickly, Demi Moore is an alcoholic singer that is navigating her relationship like a very cabaret style singer named Virginia Fallon, I want to say.

[Julia Claire]

She does this insane rendition of Louie.

[George Severis]

Louie, which was in fact recorded and released in some capacity according to Wikipedia. But there is a Demi Moore cover of Louie Louie. Sharon Stone plays a beautician who works at the hotel salon. I would say her class signifiers are very confusing because on the one hand she's clearly coded as a working class nail technician. On the other hand, she is married to the manager of the hotel who is William H. Macy, who is in this managerial position. So we have William H. Macy. He's Sharon Stone's husband. He's having an affair with Heather Graham, who is a young hot switchboard operator. Christian Slater is a racist food and beverage manager who is fired by William H. Macy for being racist. Laurence Fishburne comes in for truly 20 seconds. He is a sous chef that makes a mean blueberry pie. Yes, we have Fredo Rodriguez, one of the two Mexican American busboys. His entire storyline is that he has tickets to a baseball game but can't go because he has to work a double shift. Shia LaBeouf is a Kennedy campaign volunteer who buys acid from Get Ready for this Ashton Kutcher and goes on an acid trip instead of going out and volunteering for her Bobby. Helen Hunt and Martin Sheen play a married couple who are rich campaign donors. She's a socialite figure. At one point he makes fun of her for purchasing a painting of a Campbell's can of soup, which is, that's right, a Warhol. Joshua Jackson is Bobby's campaign manager. Nick Cannon is a staffer who falls for Joy Bryan, who is Heather Graham's co worker at the switchboard. Then of course we have the Czechoslovakian reporter who is determined to get an interview with Kennedy. And then there's leftover David Krumholtz, Mary Elizabeth Winstead. When I went on letterboxd to look at the cast, I had to click more just to get to Helen Hunt I know Academy Award winner Helen Hunt is after and more. Yeah, we're going to take a short break. Stay with us.

[Washable Sofas Advertiser]

Time for a sofa upgrade. Visit washablesofas.com and discover Annabe where designer style meets budget friendly prices. With sofas starting at $699, Annabe brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly. Perfect for both small and large spaces, Anabe is the only machine washable sofa inside and out. Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy. Liquid simply slides right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high resilience foam lets you choose between a sink in feel or a supportive memory foam blend. Plus our pet friendly Stain resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years.

[Julia Claire]

Years.

[Washable Sofas Advertiser]

Don't compromise quality for price. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk returns and a 30 day money back guarantee. Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free returns. Shop [e-mail] Authors are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply as the.

[Nuremberg Movie Trailer Announcer]

World grapples with the unveiled horrors of the Holocaust. The Allies, led by Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson, create an unprecedented international tribunal to hold the highest ranking Nazi officials accountable. Among them. US army psychiatrist lieutenant colonel Douglas Kelly is assigned the extraordinary task of assessing the mental state of Hermann Goering, the notorious former Reichsmarschal and Hitler's second in command. During this trial of the century, Dr. Kelly becomes locked in a psychological duel that reveals a sobering ordinary men can commit extraordinary evil. Nuremberg Written and directed by James Vanderbilt. Starring Russell Crowe, Rami Malek, Leo Woodall and Michael Shannon. Only in theaters November 7th. Tickets are on sale now at nuremberg-film.com that's N-U R E M B E R G-Film.com.

[IBM Advertiser]

So your AI agents, they make the team that uses them more productive, right? But if they aren't connected to other agents or your data or your existing workflows, how productive can they really make your teams? Any business can add AI agents. IBM connects your agents across your company to change how you do business. Let's create Smile to business. IBM.

[Flav City Advertiser]

Tired of mystery ingredients you can't even pronounce? Meat Flav City with only real ingredients that actually fuel your day. Their all in one. Protein smoothie is ready in 20 seconds with 25 grams of protein, 10 grams of of collagen, real fruit and real functional mushrooms. Just scoop, shake and sip. No blender needed. And this season the limited edition pumpkin spice latte protein smoothie is back. Caffeine, protein and actual pumpkin and spices in one delicious sip. But hurry, it always sells out. Go to shopflavcity.com and grab yours before it's gone.

[George Severis]

And we're back with United States of Kennedy.

[Julia Claire]

The reason why all this happened is because Anthony Hopkins was the first person to sign on. So we can blame Anthony Hopkins for this movie.

[George Severis]

And William H. Macy, I believe might have been the second. And they got these.

[Julia Claire]

He was.

[George Severis]

Yeah.

[Julia Claire]

And he said that he signed on because Anthony Hopkins was doing it and Emilio Estevez was having such a hard time getting this movie made. He had written it right before, you guessed it, September 11th and had terrible writer's block, which I think is evidenced in this screenplay. And he was having a really hard time getting this movie made. He was selling a bunch of his own stuff to get this movie made. And then Anthony Hopkins, who has a lot of personal feelings about Bobby, was the first person to sign on. And then that was a domino effect where all these other huge name actors signed on for basically no money.

[George Severis]

Yeah. The story of it really reminds me of stories you'll hear about a biopic about a forgotten figure in history and it's someone's passion project and everyone is just working at scale. Except it's about a Kennedy. It's as though they were all passionate about making a film about a forgotten civil rights activist whose name they wanted to get out there. Except it's about someone everyone knows about, generally respects. He already has a generally good reputation and the public American imagination. But it really seemed to be a labor of love. I mean, I recently found out that IMDb trivia is in no way fact checked and completely user generated. But one of the things in IMDb trivia that I read that I was in the middle of fact check again that we had to record is that everyone worked as a show of support of the movie. All these famous actors worked at scale. So you have Sharon Stone and Demi Moore. Demi Moore, by the way, famously at one point the most highly paid actress in America, allegedly, you know, worked for scale to do this movie.

[Julia Claire]

I think she and Emilio were once an item. I think they were once engaged. I think they met on the set of St. Elmo's Fire.

[George Severis]

Yeah, it's funny, you know, to reference a different podcast. The podcast how did this Get Made? Which is about movies that are bad. It's like the answer to how did this get made? Is just, it's good old fashioned Hollywood hobnobbing and nepotism and just everyone knowing one another and people doing favors for one another and the fact that all these big actors basically just had five lines. I am sure that for Sharon Stone it was one day on set. Like she's there, she's wearing the one outfit she wears as a beautician. She has those CL bangs on and.

[Julia Claire]

She'S, you know, I love those clip on bangs. I mean.

[George Severis]

Okay, well, we will get into bigger issues, but I do want to ask you, since we're talking about all these actors, who for you was the MVP of the movie?

[Julia Claire]

So I actually, I wrote this down, that there are three actors in this movie who are so good that it is basically like they're acting in a different movie. And it's Anthony Hopkins, Laurence Mishburn, and Sharon Stone. And all three of them, I'm like, what movie are you in? Because Anthony Hopkins is pouring so much of himself into this. He is so grounding. And then everything else in this movie is so incredibly goofy. And even actors who are normally great are not that good in this movie. It's not their fault the script is bad.

[George Severis]

And I just want to say, one such actor, and it's not her fault at all, is Helen Hunt. The things that Helen Hunt is given to say. I wrote down Helen Hunt's black shoe speech.

[Julia Claire]

I wrote it down, too. I wrote it down, too. Helen Hunt's monologue about how it's hard to be a woman because of shoes.

[George Severis]

But the black shoe monologue, like, there are. So, you know, again, every character is completely a symbol representing the social issues of the 60s. So for some people, it's the relationship to Vietnam and the draft. For some people, it's the relationship to changing attitudes around women and feminism. For some people, it's about civil rights and racial unrest in America. Every single person corresponds to some social issue. And so Helen Hunt, who is a rich socialite, it's interesting they could have made her storyline somehow about class or. Or inequality or something, but they really didn't. They want you to fully be on her side when she gives this monologue about how difficult it is to be a wealthy woman. And this is my issue with it. Cause she can't find shoes that match her black dress.

[Julia Claire]

She forgot to pack her black shoes to match her black dress. And famously black goes with everything.

[George Severis]

That's what's so shocking. And that's where I was like, wow, a man wrote this.

[Julia Claire]

I know. That monologue was so crazy. And she was so emotional during it. Look, I have to say, I'm a Helen Hunt hater.

[George Severis]

Really.

[Julia Claire]

I do not think she is a good actor. And I think she also, in this case, was given pretty bad material to work with.

[George Severis]

There was also, I think maybe the wor. Maybe Nick Cannon is the worst. Worst in terms of material, just in terms of rating. And I think Helen Hunt is second worst.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah. And there was something on the IMDb trivia that we don't know if it's true or not, I guess, but that she was given her script the day before.

[George Severis]

I'm not. And that would make sense.

[Julia Claire]

Yes, that would make a lot of sense. But she's really bad. Also. I had no idea what the point of her and Charlie Sheen's little Danettes were. And also, I was like, it's so weird that Emilio Estevez wrote this kind of horny part for his dad. Yes.

[George Severis]

No, it's very strange. And I almost think that he wanted his dad to be involved and he didn't have something for him, so he created this on the spot or something. So your three mvp. I agree. Anthony Hopkins, Laurence Fishburne and Sharon Stone. I mean, to me, Sharon Stone was the mvp. She is doing trashy fake blonde nail technicians. So. Well, it's a register she knows she can do. She also gets to actually have way more subplots than most other people because she interacts with three main characters. She gets to have a nice chat with Lindsay Lohan, who is doing her nails for her wedding. And so they have a whole earnest conversation about the ethics and the larger context of marrying someone in order to soft dodge the draft, basically. Then she has a sort of intense conversation with Demi Moore where Demi Moore drunkenly says one of the most iconic lines, which is, we're all whores.

[Julia Claire]

We're all whores.

[George Severis]

Some of us are just paid for it. And then she also gets to discover that her husband is having an affair and then confront him. I mean, she's the closest to being, if not a fully fledged character, at least a character that is enmeshed in the network of other characters in the movie rather than just silo to their own storyline.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah, she feels the closest to a real person. Yes, I think.

[George Severis]

And you know why? Because she's the only one who basically isn't just a symbol of a social issue. Like we said, you can't directly draw a line between Sharon Stone's character and a hot topic. She's actually just. She is a woman who's having difficulties with her job, her marriage and her sense of self and with aging. Who among us?

[Julia Claire]

I know. No, I just think she's so good. And if this movie had 30% more her. Yeah, I think it would have been a lot better. I just think that in the hands of a more capable, particularly a more capable screenwriter, this just would have been. This movie was, in my opinion, bad. And it didn't have to be that way. 1968 is one of the most fascinating years in modern American history. Lyndon Johnson called it, I think, a year of unending nightmare. And this is one of the most fascinating days in that year. And the fact that they made a movie that was. Was pretty boring, honestly, is crazy. And to me, my favorite parts of the whole movie were the archival footage and audio.

[George Severis]

Yes, I agree. And it actually comparing it to the writing of the Actual movie. I was like, wow, Bobby had great speechwriters.

[Julia Claire]

Yes, he really did.

[George Severis]

These are actually good writers. It's very Obama. Like, in the sort of inspirational tone that has just enough sprinkles of substance to have plausible deniability that maybe something actually legitimate is being said. And I'm not above being emotionally manipulated. And when you show me a montage of characters that I've met bleeding to an inspirational speech, that's gonna move me despite myself.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah. And the Sound of Silence by Simon Garfunkel is playing, and I have to.

[George Severis]

Actually admit something really shocking, which is. So I saw this movie around when it came out. I think it was playing on TV or something. I don't think I intentionally rented it. And it is the first time I had heard that song.

[Julia Claire]

Wow.

[George Severis]

And I literally Googled lyrics to learn what song it was. And then I was like, God, I love this song. And I actually, for a while, thankfully, I was underage and was not able to do this. Wanted a tattoo of some of the lyrics of the Sound of Silence.

[Julia Claire]

I mean, I wish you had done it.

[George Severis]

I wish I had done it.

[Julia Claire]

I wish you had done it.

[George Severis]

And I could have revealed it on Zoom Live for this episode.

[Julia Claire]

Wow. Yeah. I mean, look, I'm not made of stone. I was emotional at the end, too. Again, the archival footage especially, and the music. And it's funny because the movie itself is pretty boring, as I said.

[George Severis]

And not affecting.

[Julia Claire]

And not affecting. And then the last five minutes of it, I'm getting a lump in my throat. And that's crazy. Yeah.

[George Severis]

Because at its best, I think its biggest weakness ends up being a strength briefly at the end, which is. It is so diffuse. It is about so many different characters that you never actually get to know that you don't build connections with them. But at the end, you can finally zoom out. And it's almost like being like, wow. America is a land of contrasts. Like, it really. You zoom out and you're able to look at the larger picture of where the country was at the time. But I think the film sacrifices depth for breadth. Like, none of the characters individually make you feel anything. And I think what you're saying about how 1968 was such an important year is the trap the film fell into in that there's so much they could say that they wanted to say all of it, and ended up having one sentence about each topic. Like, if they just made the movie about, you know, the Lindsay Lohan and Elijah Wood characters. That is a really interesting story. The story there is that they are getting married for dishonest strategic purposes, but in the process are falling in love. That's very interesting and very impactful and you could make a whole movie about that. And instead they get two scenes.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah, totally.

[George Severis]

And I gotta say all my love to Lindsay and of course, Elijah Wood. Very little emoting happening.

[Julia Claire]

Sure, yeah. And they had almost no chemistry. It was crazy. And the thing that I have to say really was this movie's moment of jumping the shark was the LSD trip.

[George Severis]

And say more about that.

[Julia Claire]

Okay, so as George said, Shia LaBeouf and actor number two go to Ashton Kutcher's hotel room to buy a joint. And then Ashton Kutcher wearing the worst wig I've ever seen in my whole.

[George Severis]

Life, potentially drawn on facial hair. There was something uncanny valley about every single thing about him. It was like spirit Halloween costume. That's called, that's called like flower child.

[Julia Claire]

It's so true. It was truly heinous to look at. And there's a guy who's never disappeared into a role in his life completely. It is just like you're looking at him and you're like, well, that's Ashton Kutcher. So he sells them LSD and tells them that it's gonna give them a personal relationship with God, which would also sell me. Well, yes, but this extremely goofy green screen traveling in time and space montage happens of their trip and. And for a movie that takes itself so seriously otherwise, it is a crazy thing to put in the middle of this movie.

[George Severis]

Well, again, they just wanted to be like, you know, what else is happening in the 60s? Drugs.

[Julia Claire]

Drugs. The electric acid test.

[George Severis]

I mean, as we've said, this movie really hammers home. These are the events and these are the themes of the 60s. And one of the most unforgivable parts is when they are tripping on acid. And what they are hallucinating is archival footage of the Vietnam War.

[Julia Claire]

It's so crazy.

[Nuremberg Movie Trailer Announcer]

They're not.

[George Severis]

It's like this is a 19 year old stoner guy who has a crush on a waitress who is volunteering for a political candidate that he found inspirational. Like, he's gonna be hallucinating giant mushrooms and colorful rainbows. He's not gonna be hallucinating archival footage of the Vietnam War.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah, we're gonna be hallucinating Mary Elizabeth Winston. Yes, exactly, something like that. But yeah, also Shia LaBeouf, he's another one who is doing much better than the material. And then you hate to say it.

[George Severis]

You hate to say it, you know, and this is a movie, of course, speaking of problematic men, produced by the Weinstein Company, so it's a real melange of amazing figures.

[Julia Claire]

But this is also just a really interesting point in Shia Laboque's career because it was a few years after holes. He had just gotten out of the Disney rotation, and then Transformers came out the following year. So he was on the brink, and he was clearly trying to show his chops in this serious movie. And he does a good job. It's just that the material is really bad.

[George Severis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's that he isn't really allowed to shine because all of the. Especially the male characters, I would say they are dragged by the ensemble of it. Shia has to be in scenes with the two other guys that are inherently goofy. He's not given a monologue. He's not given something to do by himself. It's interesting to think of the young performers in this movie, all of whom are doing some version of what you're saying, like trying to be taken seriously, because that's definitely the case with Lindsay Lohan. It's definitely the case with Elijah Wood coming out of Lord of the Rings. It's definitely the case with Nick Cannon. I'm sure it's a big deal that he was cast in this movie after Drumline, which also.

[Julia Claire]

He's doing the drumline face in most of the movie, too. And those who have seen Drumline will know what I'm talking about. But, yeah, he is doing the drumline straight face. He has the most unforgivable overacting in the whole movie.

[George Severis]

It's tough.

[Julia Claire]

It's really rough. Every line read is dialed to a 13. It's crazy.

[George Severis]

I mean, it's also so unfair to have him.

[Julia Claire]

It's unfair again.

[George Severis]

Everything he's made to do feels completely inauthentic. But he's the one who has to say the line, now that Dr. King is dead, Bobby is all we have. And that is the central thesis of his character. So he has to go around being like, okay, what is the inner truth of my character? It's that as a black man, he thinks the only civil rights figure that is worthy of praise is Bobby Kennedy. We'll be back with more United States of Kennedy after this break.

[Washable Sofas Advertiser]

Let's be real. Life happens. Kids spill, pets shed, and accidents are inevitable. Find a sofa that can keep [e-mail] starting at just $699. Our sofas are fully machine washable inside and out, so you can say goodbye to stains and head hello to Worry Free Living. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, they're kid proof, pet friendly and built for everyday life. Plus, changeable fabric covers let you refresh your sofa whenever you want. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa anytime to fit your space whether it's a growing family room or a cozy apartment. Plus, they're earth friendly and trusted by over 200,000 houses. Happy customers. It's time to upgrade to a stress free mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save that's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain.

[George Severis]

Restrictions may apply as the world grapples.

[Nuremberg Movie Trailer Announcer]

With the unveiled horrors of the Holocaust, the Allies, led by Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson, create an unprecedented international tribunal to hold the highest ranking Nazi officials accountable. Among them, US army psychiatrist lieutenant colonel Douglas Kelly is assigned the extraordinary task of assessing the mental state of Hermann Goering, the notorious former Reichsmarschal and Hitler's second in command. During this trial of this century, Dr. Kelly becomes locked in a psychological duel that reveals a sobering ordinary men can commit extraordinary evil. Nuremberg Written and directed by James Vanderbilt. Starring Russell Crowe, Rami Malek, Leo Woodall and Michael Shannon. Only in theaters November 7th. Tickets are on sale now at nuremberg-film.com that's n u r e m b e r g-film.com.

[IBM Advertiser]

So your AI agents, they make the team that uses them more productive, right? But if they aren't connected to other agents or your data or your existing workflows, how productive can they really make your team? Any business can add AI agents. IBM connects your agents across your company to change how you do business. Let's create Smile to business. IBM.

[Flav City Advertiser]

Tired of mystery ingredients you can't even pronounce? Meet Flav City with only real ingredients that actually fuel your day. Their All In One protein smoothie is ready in 20 seconds with 25 grams of protein, 10 grams of collagen, real fruit and real functional mushrooms. Just scoop, shake and sip. No blender needed. And this season the limited edition Pumpkin Spice Latte protein smoothie is back. Caffeine, protein and actual pumpkin and spices in one delicious sip. But hurry, it always sells out. Go to shopflavcity.com and grab yours before it's gone.

[George Severis]

And we're back with United States of Kennedy. I'm very happy I have someone on the podcast that has read at least one time a comprehensive Bobby biography. So obviously the movie is actually something I liked about the movie is that no one is cast as him. And the movie is built around archival footage.

[Julia Claire]

Even when I really liked that, and.

[George Severis]

Obviously when he's on tv, it's easy to do. It makes sense. But even when he is shot and then there is a scene being filmed around him, it's very interesting because the scene is being filmed normally. You see the various faces, and then you go to him, and it seamlessly switches into archival footage, and it's just grainier.

[Julia Claire]

I really. I really liked that. And again, that was one of those moments where I was like, wow, a more skilled filmmaker could have done a version of this. That was actually great.

[George Severis]

And I even think, as you're saying, he's a worse writer than he is a director. I even think the scene of spoiler alert, we. We learn about all these characters, and then the big climax is that Bobby, after giving his speech, he goes into the kitchen, and as he's sort of shaking hands with people and celebrating, he is shot. And then there is this montage of everyone in slow motion being horrified, seeing people they know that have been injured, blah, blah.

[Julia Claire]

That's also interspaced with real photographs and from. Because it was all on film, basically.

[George Severis]

And we should say the two characters that are ever so slightly based in reality, one is the Lindsay Lohan character because the director met someone who had a similar story. And then the other one is the busboy, because there was a Mexican American busboy that was shaking Bobby's hand as he was shot. So that is a true fact, but it's not based on his backstory or anything.

[Julia Claire]

It's not based on his backstory, but he was also the one who, in all the famous photographs, was cradling Bobby's head when he was on the floor. And this busboy put his rosary into Bobby's hand and closed it, which is one of those things right now, it's giving me chills, but it is one of those things that I don't know. Again, I'm not made of stone. I remember reading the book 10 years ago, and obviously you know how it ends, but I still found myself crying at the end.

[George Severis]

So, Julia, what did you think of the portrayal of Bobby in the film? Because he. Yes, it is archival footage, but it is, of course, like, carefully selected. His impact on people is really driven into you. We've talked about how his relationship to civil rights is slightly whitewashed, but otherwise, what did you think of the portrayal of him as a public figure during this time?

[Julia Claire]

I honestly think that, having not been there myself, it probably was fairly accurate to how he was thought of in 1968 by the people who loved him. Because I think this is like a very aphoristic rendering of him. Obviously, I think all of the pictures at the end, all of the real photographs of him all over the country, that is what people loved about him. The year before, in 1967, he had gone to the Mississippi Delta and went out to meet people there and to see, like, rural poverty for himself. And it really changed him. And everyone who met him on that trip said that they didn't want to like him, and they ended up really falling for him as a person. And I think that that's the thing about him that has kind of endured in his legacy, is just he really touched people. He was so emotional himself. He was such an open wound that he really connected with people on an interpersonal level. He loved to touch people. He loved to rustle people's hair. Kids loved him, and he had 11 kids. You know, everything for him was visceral and tactile. And I think that part of him really comes through in this. And a lot of people saw Eugene McCarthy as very kind of academic and withdrawn and wasn't really hanging out with civil rights leaders. He was hanging out with, like, poets and professors. So I think there was something very real to people about Bobby.

[George Severis]

Yeah, I mean, to die basically at the peak of your popularity during a primary, even because he didn't even have a chance to then go head to head with a Republican. This is like when Obama had momentum against Hillary in 2008. So he had no chance to disappoint anyone because he was never then in office. And we never got to see, like, did he follow through on his promises? Was he being dishonest the whole time? So the reverence really makes sense in that way, because he died being for people who voted him, for people who, you know, are similar to the characters in this movie. He died as just a symbol of hope and change. To quote a different politician.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah, yeah. He was a symbol of what could be. Yes, exactly. And also he had clearly gone through a lot of personal changes within himself in terms of what he believed. And maybe in that way, people in the country felt reflected in him. Because I'm sure that between the McCarthy era and 1968, there were millions of Americans who felt that their own politics on or their own views on the issues had changed. It makes sense why he was so important and why his assassination was cataclysmic in the way that it was.

[George Severis]

I mean, you get why Emilio Estevez put all his personal fortune into making the movie with every single. Every single actor in Hollywood. Well, listen, I'm shocked. We haven't really discussed Demi Moore because Demi Moore is, as you're saying, there's generally two kinds of acting happening. Some people are acting like they're in a better movie than they are. Some people are being really bogged down by the terrible writing. And I think Demi Moore is something different. She's like, I'm here to slay. Like, I came here. I came here to play a drunk cabaret singer, and I do not even know who's up for election. I don't know who y' all are voting for. Like, I'm literally in a blackout.

[Julia Claire]

We're all whores.

[George Severis]

I'm in a blackout and my job is to hold a martini, smoke a cigarette, and call Sharon Stone a whore and then immediately apologize and break down crying and be like, sorry, I'm a drunk, and then have the largest hair I've ever seen in my life.

[Julia Claire]

Incredible.

[George Severis]

That was almost a visual gag. I felt like I was watching SNL when she finally comes out and her hair is literally like, heavier than the rest of her body.

[Julia Claire]

It's incredible. Also, there are parts of her performance that are great, that I agree genuinely very good. Where I'm like. I was taken aback and I was like, oh, she's doing some of the best acting in this movie. And then she does the calling Sharon Stone a whore. And then I'm like, well, I'm out. And she said, sings Louie, Louie. And that was crazy. Also, wait, hold on. There was that one scene where the band is like, come on, do some drumming with us or whatever. And then all of a sudden, Emilio Estevez is drumming in the middle of this movie. Why?

[George Severis]

This movie really is like, you know, Julia and I both came up in the Boston comedy scene. Please don't hold that against us.

[Julia Claire]

Don't hold that against us.

[George Severis]

Yeah, but it reminds me, it's like what we would do if we were getting our friends together when we were 26 and putting together a comedy show, except they to make a giant big budget Hollywood movie. I thought that the scene between Sharon Stone and Demi Moore, you know, yes, it had its ups and downs, but I was like, finally, this is two actresses having an actress off. They are also really connecting with one another. Yes, they clearly each want to win the scene, but they're also doing a really good job working together. And I thought. So here's a directing decision I thought was good. Is as Demi Moore is making her big monologue, the camera's Actually not focused on her. It's focused on Sharon Stone's reaction. And Sharon Stone is.

[Julia Claire]

I like that too.

[George Severis]

Doing some really good face acting. And I was like, okay, this is great. Like, we're onto something here.

[Julia Claire]

I have to say. Also, I really liked. There was a scene at the very beginning snaking through the kitchen. And it was very like the long shot in Goodfellas. And I did like that scene. I thought that was cool. But, yeah, I think the Demi Moore and Sharon Stone, I liked that scene well enough. It veered into the goofy, as many of the scenes did. But I just think that Sharon Stone is, like, so undeniable that she's like, bossing William H. Macy around theatrically, basically. I loved that scene.

[George Severis]

There's, you know, she's, of course, a hairdresser, nail technician extraordinaire. She really does it all. And in the scene where she's confronting William H. Macy about his affair, she's cutting his hair. And again, According to unverified IMDb trivia, she was supposed to not actually cut his hair. But in the moment, she did put the scissors on his hair and snip, snip, snip.

[Julia Claire]

She actually. Yeah, she actually cut it. And that really added to his look of alarm.

[George Severis]

Well, yes, that's what the IMDb trivia said. It was like. So his look of alarm was genuine. And I was like, okay, well, first of all, he didn't look that alarmed. And second of all, he was also acting alarmed because he was learning that his wife knew about his affair.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah, I love IMDb trivia. Never changed.

[George Severis]

It's great. Also, William H. Macy, someone who has looked the same for 60 years.

[Julia Claire]

It's crazy. Crazy. He's got a painting in the attic somewhere.

[George Severis]

Well, you know, happy almost 20th anniversary to the 2006 movie Bobby Emilio Estevez, you know, All My Love. He has not made any super notable movies since this.

[Julia Claire]

He went out on top.

[George Severis]

He went out on top.

[Julia Claire]

That's what you're saying?

[George Severis]

I will say this was a what I would call a tepid flop. I mean, it did make up its budget at a $14 million budget. And it made globally. It made 20 million. It didn't ruin anyone's career. Maybe him as a director, but everyone else came out pretty much unscathed. You know, as someone who both of us love Lindsay Lohan, obviously we're the exact right age. It's a funny time capsule of this strange period in Lindsay Lohan's career where she was between her peak and then her downfall. It's around the same time she did Prairie Home Companion.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

And there's still some light in her.

[Julia Claire]

Eyes, and you can see her potential still bubbling towards the surface. And is she our Bobby Kennedy?

[George Severis]

Maybe.

[Julia Claire]

Maybe. Yeah.

[George Severis]

No, she's really. She's our Bobby Kennedy. And the Oprah special was her version of being assassinated. So we're really stuck on the hope she represented in 2005. Okay, Julia, any final thoughts on Bobby the film or even Bobby Kennedy the individual?

[Julia Claire]

I mean, I just really wanted to underscore the Louie Louie of it all. And my last thought is it looked like the Elijah Wood character died at the end.

[George Severis]

Right.

[Julia Claire]

Did it not look like he had died? It looked like he was dead.

[George Severis]

This is something they do. Not just with Elijah Wood. There are many characters where, until the last title card, I felt like we were supposed to think multiple people died.

[Julia Claire]

Yeah.

[George Severis]

Cause you see people. I mean, Helen Hunt seems to have been shot in the head.

[Nuremberg Movie Trailer Announcer]

Head.

[Julia Claire]

I know. She's bleeding from the damn head.

[George Severis]

So keep going.

[Julia Claire]

Anyways, one of the ending title cards says everyone else who was shot survived. And I was like, well, that doesn't. It doesn't look like that in the movie. Elijah Wood looks dead.

[George Severis]

No, he looks dead.

[Julia Claire]

Lindsay Lohan is crying over his body and he is not moving.

[George Severis]

It's a strange form of emotional manipulation to truly make the audience think a variety of characters they have followed throughout the film are dead and then just casually plays his title card. That was like, whoops, they survived. And I'm glad they did.

[Julia Claire]

I am too.

[George Severis]

I would not want to live in a world where Helen Hunt doesn't have the opportunity to explore different color shoes during the rest of her socialite career and potentially, you know, explore things past.

[Julia Claire]

Pop art and really rub it in Charlie Sheen's face.

[George Severis]

That's right.

[Julia Claire]

Andy Warhol is going to be a huge star.

[George Severis]

Yeah, Martin Sheen. But I would love it if she rubbed it in Charlie Sheen's face as well.

[Julia Claire]

Right.

[George Severis]

Well, Julia, I could talk to you about this movie for hours. Hopefully next time we chat about a movie, it'll be be quality wise, slightly better. But there's no one else I would rather have on for this episode.

[Julia Claire]

Oh, God bless. I had the time of my life. As someone for whom Massachusetts is a about a good half of my personality, this is a huge day for me.

[George Severis]

And if anyone has any questions about Massachusetts, Catholicism, the Kennedys, really just anything, please. Dm Julia. So that's it for this week's episode. United States of Canada is hosted by me, George Severis. Original music by Joshua Topolsky Production help by Carmen Lorenz. Our executive producer is Jenna Cagle, researched by Dave Roos and Austin Thompson, edited by Graham Gibson and mixed by Doug Bain. United States of Kennedy is a production of iHeart podcasts. Subscribe and follow United States of Kennedy for all things Kennedy each week. Get ready to power up your play with Nintendo Switch 2. Power up the visuals with 4K support.

[Morton Buildings Advertiser]

And a bigger, more vivid screen.

[George Severis]

Power up the fun with exclusive new games like Mario Kart World and Donkey Kong Bonanza. Oh bonanza, Nintendo Switch 2 all altogether anytime anywhere games rated E to E10 plus games and systems sold separately. Compatible TV required for 4K display.

[Morton Buildings Advertiser]

Ford was built on the belief that the world doesn't get to decide what you're capable of.

[Nuremberg Movie Trailer Announcer]

You do.

[Morton Buildings Advertiser]

So ask yourself, can you or can't you? Can you load up a Ford F150 and build your dream with sweat and steel? Can you chase thrills and conquer curves in a movie Mustang? Can you take a Bronco to where the map ends and adventure begins? Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right. Ready, set, forward.

[George Severis]

Ah, greetings from my bath festive friends. The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money, getting 5% cash back when I pay in four. No fees, no interest. I used it to get the this portable spa with jets. Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruny body. Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal. Save the offer in the app ends 1231. See paypal.com promoter points can be redeemed for cash and more. Paying for subject to terms and approval. PayPal Inc. And MLS 910457 make their.

[Julia Claire]

Holiday unforgettable with a gift that says it all from Pandora Jewelry. A gift that tells a story and shows you know theirs that doesn't just sparkle but speaks. From new festive charms to forever rings and personal engravings, this season, give a gift that's perfectly theirs. Whether you're shopping for a shiny surprise for your significant other, matching bracelets to celebrate your friendship, or a heartfelt gift for a family member, say more this holiday season with Pandora. Shop [e-mail] or visit your closest Pandora store. This is an Iheart podcast.