Dubious Privilege (feat. Skye Perryman)

Sun May 11 2025

There are now multiple cases challenging the administration’s Alien Enemies Act proclamation; including a hearing by Judge Boasberg for an amended complaint filed on behalf of all the detainees in El Salvador. Judge Xinis has had to pause the discovery in the Abrego Garcia case to contemplate the Trump Administration’s invocation of the state secrets and deliberative process privilege. Justice Department lawyers continue to lose credibility before judges who are upset by their shoddy work. President Trump pulls the nomination of Ed Martin for Us Attorney in the District of Columbia and appoints Fox anchor Jeanine Pirro as interim US Attorney. Plus listener questions…

Summary

Podcast Summary: UnJustified – "Dubious Privilege" (feat. Skye Perryman)
Release Date: May 11, 2025
Hosts: Alison Gill & Andy McCabe
Guest: Skye Perryman, CEO and President of Democracy Forward

Introduction

In the "Dubious Privilege" episode of UnJustified, hosts Alison Gill and Andy McCabe delve deep into the ongoing legal battles against the Trump administration's Department of Justice (DoJ). Featuring guest Skye Perryman from Democracy Forward, the episode highlights significant court cases, administrative appointments, and the broader implications for civil liberties and the rule of law.

Challenging the Alien Enemies Act

The episode opens with a discussion on multiple legal challenges to the administration's invocation of the Alien Enemies Act. Judge Boasberg recently held a hearing for an amended complaint representing detainees in El Salvador.

Andy McCabe [00:07]: "There are now multiple cases challenging the administration's Alien Enemies act proclamation."
Alison Gill [02:25]: "In immigration court, another judge has ruled the administration's use of the Alien Enemies act is unlawful."

Key Points:

Judge Boasberg's Hearing: Focused on jurisdiction, constructive custody, and due process for detainees.
Statutory Interpretation: The administration's claims lack support from other branches, as reinforced by recent district court rejections.

Government's Eroding Credibility in Courts

Both hosts emphasize the diminishing trust judges have in DoJ lawyers, citing instances of inadequate evidence and contradictory statements by administration officials.

Andy McCabe [00:32]: "Justice Department lawyers continue to lose credibility before the judges, who are upset by their shoddy work."
Alison Gill [43:20]: "Your greatest treasure is the trust that the court has in you."

Notable Instances:

Judge John Bates (D.C.): Criticized DOJ lawyers for poor submissions.
Judge Leonie M. Brinkema (Virginia): Rebuked the government for flimsy evidence linking a couple to violent gangs.
Judge Colleen Kolar Catelli (D.C.): Highlighted DOJ's lack of diligence in election system overhauls.

Appointment Controversies: Ed Martin & Jeanine Pirro

A significant portion of the episode critiques President Trump's handling of key DoJ appointments, particularly Ed Martin and Jeanine Pirro.

Alison Gill [00:39]: "President Trump pulls the nomination of Ed Martin for U.S. attorney in the District of Columbia... appointing Fox News anchor Jeanine Pirro as the new interim U.S. attorney. This is unjustified."
Andy McCabe [51:17]: "It's, it's a big problem for DOJ, long term. Big, big problem."

Discussion Highlights:

Ed Martin's Nomination Failure: Blocked by Senator Thom Tillis, reflecting intra-party tensions.
Multiple Roles for Ed Martin: Despite failing to secure the U.S. attorney position, Martin was assigned three roles within the DoJ, raising concerns about overextension and conflict of interest.
Jeanine Pirro's Interim Appointment: Criticized for lacking relevant prosecutorial experience, casting doubt on her capability to oversee a critical prosecutor's office.

Judge Boasberg's Courtroom Dynamics

A central segment involves Skye Perryman detailing recent developments in Judge Boasberg's courtroom.

Sky Perryman [03:40]: "Judge Boasberg was questioning the government... contradicts what the lawyers at the Department of Justice have been saying."
Alison Gill [04:14]: "Judge Boasberg has had to pause the discovery... contemplating the Trump administration's invocation of the state secrets and deliberative process privileges."

Key Insights:

Discovery Pauses: Due to the administration's attempts to shield information, delaying the legal process.
Judicial Scrutiny: Judge Boasberg's rigorous questioning exposes inconsistencies in the administration's stance, strengthening the plaintiffs' position.

Judicial Pushback and Public Perception

The hosts and Perryman discuss the broader resistance from the judiciary against the administration's legal maneuvers and its impact on public trust.

Sky Perryman [07:55]: "We've been at the point of a real crisis with this administration."
Andy McCabe [44:36]: "Judges appointed by presidents of both parties have criticized the statements and behavior of administration officials... acting like toddlers."

Highlights:

Cross-Party Judicial Criticism: Judges from both political backgrounds are increasingly skeptical of DoJ actions.
Public Trust: An ABC News poll cited by Perryman indicates high public concern over due process and the rule of law.
Media Involvement: Over 14 major news organizations have filed motions to unseal court records, pushing for transparency.

Future Implications and Constitutional Concerns

Concluding segments focus on potential future scenarios if the administration continues to undermine legal protocols.

Sky Perryman [09:56]: "This is not a political issue. It transcends politics, and the American people are getting it."
Andy McCabe [60:30]: "Due process for one is no due process for all."

Discussion Points:

Potential Constitutional Crisis: With talks of suspending habeas corpus, there's a looming threat to fundamental civil liberties.
Role of Congress: Although judges lack authority to halt executive actions financially, Perryman suggests legislative measures as possible remedies.
Call to Action: Perryman urges continued vigilance and support for organizations like Democracy Forward to uphold the rule of law.

Listener Engagement and Conclusion

The episode wraps up with listener questions addressing the feasibility of judicial remedies and the lack of presidential response to purported foreign threats.

Listener Question [57:12]: "If Venezuela is behind the invasion by Trende Aragua, why isn't Donald Trump threatening them?"

Hosts' Response:

Alison Gill: Points out the absurdity of claiming an invasion by Venezuela without corresponding military response.
Andy McCabe: Highlights the inconsistency and lack of evidence supporting the administration's claims.

Final Thoughts:

Stay Informed: The hosts emphasize the importance of remaining engaged and informed to prevent further erosion of civil liberties.
Support Civil Rights Organizations: Encourages listeners to support entities like Democracy Forward to counteract authoritarian tendencies.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

Andy McCabe [00:07]: "There are now multiple cases challenging the administration's Alien Enemies act proclamation."
Sky Perryman [07:55]: "We've been at the point of a real crisis with this administration."
Andy McCabe [44:36]: "Judges appointed by presidents of both parties have criticized the statements and behavior of administration officials... acting like toddlers."
Sky Perryman [09:56]: "This is not a political issue. It transcends politics, and the American people are getting it."
Alison Gill [60:33]: "Due process for one is no due process for all."

Conclusion

"Dubious Privilege" serves as a critical examination of the Trump administration's DoJ, highlighting judicial resistance, questionable administrative appointments, and the overarching threat to civil liberties. Through insightful discussions and expert guest commentary, Alison Gill and Andy McCabe underscore the urgent need to uphold the rule of law and protect due process rights amidst escalating governmental overreach.