Episode Summary: Jack Episode 107 | Wray Obeys in Advance

Release Date: December 15, 2024

Hosts: Alison Gill & Andy McCabe
Podcast: Jack by MSW Media

Introduction

In Episode 107 of Jack, hosts Alison Gill and Andy McCabe delve into the intricate developments surrounding the federal trials of former President Donald J. Trump. This episode, titled "Wray Obeys in Advance," explores significant nominations, resignations, and investigative reports that shape the Special Counsel process potentially leading to Trump's conviction.

1. Donald Trump's Nomination of Harmeet Dhillon to the DOJ Civil Rights Division

Timestamp: [02:08]

Alison Gill opens the discussion by highlighting Trump’s recent nomination of Harmeet Dhillon to head the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice. Dhillon, a staunch Trump loyalist with a history of opposing diversity initiatives and defending conservative causes, is expected to significantly alter the DOJ’s approach to civil rights.

Alison Gill [02:08]: "Trump nominated Harmeet Dillon to head up the Civil Rights division... She will no doubt fiercely defend the civil rights of white people... representing conservative college students at UC Berkeley, a Google engineer fired for opposing diversity efforts and churches forced to close during the pandemic."

Andy McCabe echoes concerns about Dhillon's potential impact on established civil rights protections, noting that her tenure could undermine ongoing efforts to protect voting rights and minority safeguards.

Andy McCabe [04:15]: "Dylan's nomination... has sparked worry among some legal observers who say her tactics could paralyze the DOJ's long-running efforts to protect voting rights and other safeguards for minority groups."

The hosts discuss Dhillon’s history, including her successful challenges against California’s pandemic policies and her representation of Trump’s campaign in lawsuits targeting election transparency.

2. Resignation of FBI Director Christopher Wray

Timestamp: [14:17]

The episode transitions to the resignation of FBI Director Christopher Wray, announced as he plans to step down at the end of the Biden administration. Wray's departure comes amidst rising tensions and criticism from Trump, who has already indicated plans to nominate Kash Patel as his successor.

Andy McCabe [14:17]: "FBI Director Christopher Wray plans to resign at the end of the Biden administration... Trump has already said he will nominate Kash Patel for the position of FBI Director."

Alison Gill critiques Wray’s decision, viewing it as a failure to uphold the FBI’s independence, especially in light of Trump’s adversarial stance towards the bureau.

Alison Gill [20:02]: "Having someone like Harmeet Dhillon come in and run the civil rights division is just... It's a sad day for me to think about what she'll do and what she won't do."

Andy McCabe emphasizes the importance of FBI independence, drawing parallels to historical abuses under J. Edgar Hoover and lamenting Wray’s resignation as a blow to the bureau’s autonomy.

Andy McCabe [22:11]: "The principle of FBI independence... is being undermined by Wray's resignation... It would be important for Christopher Wray's legacy as director."

3. DOJ Inspector General Reports on January 6th

Timestamp: [26:16]

The hosts examine recent reports from the Department of Justice's Inspector General, led by Michael Horowitz, which address conspiracy theories alleging FBI involvement in the January 6th Capitol insurrection. Horowitz's report conclusively debunks claims of FBI agents inciting the violence, reinforcing the integrity of the bureau’s actions.

Alison Gill [27:35]: "DOJ IG, Michael Horowitz, had to take time out of his day to look into it and say, no, there were no FBI agents at the Capitol on January."

Andy McCabe criticizes the prolonged and resource-intensive investigation, arguing that it serves more to protect FBI leadership than to provide substantive accountability.

Andy McCabe [28:05]: "This thing was an amazing... but it was more about covering up Chris Wray for four years."

4. Guilty Plea of FBI Informant Alexander Smirnoff

Timestamp: [41:09]

Alison Gill and Andy McCabe discuss the guilty plea of Alexander Smirnoff, a former FBI informant accused of fabricating allegations against President Joe Biden and his son, Hunter. Smirnoff’s admission of falsifying documents that fueled Republican-led investigations into the Bidens raises significant concerns about the integrity of congressional probes.

Alison Gill [41:46]: "He made it all up. He's admitting he made it all up... It seems like a big old frame job."

Andy highlights the lack of accountability from figures like Jim Jordan and Jim Comer, who were central to promoting the false narratives derived from Smirnoff’s fabricated evidence.

Andy McCabe [45:54]: "They didn't say a word. They just hope people didn't hear the story."

The hosts express frustration over the absence of public acknowledgment or remorse from the committees involved, emphasizing the damage caused by such fabrications.

5. Donald Trump's Call to Jail January 6th Committee Members & Liz Cheney's Response

Timestamp: [46:09]

Donald Trump’s recent assertion that members of the January 6th Committee should be imprisoned provokes a strong rebuke from Liz Cheney, the committee's co-chair. Cheney condemns Trump's remarks as a continuation of his assault on the rule of law and emphasizes the importance of preserving and publicly disclosing the Special Counsel’s findings.

Liz Cheney's Statement [Timestamp Not Provided]:
"Donald Trump attempted to overturn the 2020 presidential election and seize power... Trump's suggestion that members of Congress... should be jailed is a continuation of his assault on the rule of law..."

Alison Gill underscores Cheney’s call for transparency, advocating for the release of grand jury materials to ensure accountability.

Alison Gill [46:18]: "Liz Cheney is calling for preserving everything... It's a great question."

Andy McCabe concurs, noting the challenges in ensuring that grand jury materials are properly archived and accessible for public scrutiny.

Andy McCabe [50:34]: "Selections for historical records have never been handled this way before... it's a concern if it gets destroyed."

6. Preservation and Release of Grand Jury Material

Timestamp: [50:34]

The conversation shifts to the complexities surrounding the preservation and potential release of grand jury materials related to the Special Counsel’s investigations. Alison Gill and Andy McCabe discuss the legal and procedural hurdles that impede full transparency, fearing that essential evidence might be withheld or destroyed.

Alison Gill [51:06]: "Grand jury material is still buried, and it's going to be interesting to see."

Andy elaborates on the legal requirements for releasing such materials, emphasizing that any unilateral action by the Department of Justice without judicial approval would be unprecedented and likely contested.

Andy McCabe [53:00]: "The presiding judge of the district has to do it... If Trump wanted all this stuff obliterated, is Pam Bondi gonna tell him it's not a good idea."

7. Listener Questions: Future Trump Presidency and Legal Implications

Timestamp: [56:42]

In the listener Q&A segment, Alison Gill and Andy McCabe address concerns about the potential legal challenges and threats that could arise if Trump were to regain the presidency. The discussion covers the possibility of Trump declaring himself an authoritarian leader and the constitutional safeguards that would prevent such an outcome.

First Listener Question: Eric
Do you think that even Trump judges will be able to stomach the likely indictments? How much will the threat of prosecution silence potential critics who won't have corporate or party resources to help pay for legal representation?

Andy McCabe responds by acknowledging that the looming threat of prosecution and harassment could indeed deter individuals from speaking out, particularly those without substantial resources to defend themselves legally.

Andy McCabe [58:36]: "The threat of prosecution will silence a lot of people... people might say nothing."

Alison Gill adds that constitutional protections and state-administered elections serve as crucial barriers against any attempts by Trump to overextend his power.

Second Listener Question: Darren
If we survive the next four years and Trump is still relatively healthy, what's stopping him from not stepping down and declaring himself the new democratically elected authoritarian? With the recent SCOTUS immunity decision, what's preventing him from not stepping down for the peaceful transfer of power.

Alison Gill outlines the constitutional limitations that prevent Trump from serving more than two terms and emphasizes the role of state-administered elections in ensuring a peaceful transfer of power.

Alison Gill [64:30]: "The Constitution limits you to two terms... the states will still have elections."

Andy McCabe concurs, adding that despite the presence of Trump-friendly judges, structural and constitutional barriers would likely thwart any attempts to bypass democratic processes.

Andy McCabe [65:07]: "The Constitution limits you to two terms... someone else will get elected."

Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Alison Gill and Andy McCabe reiterate the critical importance of legislative actions like the Press Act to safeguard transparency and accountability within the Department of Justice. They express continued concern over the preservation of grand jury materials and the broader implications for the rule of law in the United States.

Alison Gill [67:21]: "Jack Smith is absolutely a rule follower... I hope Merrick Garland won't prevent it from being released."

The hosts close with a call to action, urging listeners to advocate for legislative measures that reinforce judicial transparency and protect against potential abuses of power.

Andy McCabe [67:47]: "We'll see. Prove me wrong. That's fine, too."

Notable Quotes

• Alison Gill [02:08]: "Trump nominated Harmeet Dillon to head up the Civil Rights division... She will no doubt fiercely defend the civil rights of white people."

• Andy McCabe [04:15]: "Dylan's nomination... has sparked worry among some legal observers who say her tactics could paralyze the DOJ's long-running efforts to protect voting rights and other safeguards for minority groups."

• Andy McCabe [22:11]: "The principle of FBI independence... is being undermined by Wray's resignation... It would be important for Christopher Wray's legacy as director."

• Alison Gill [41:46]: "He made it all up. He's admitting he made it all up... It seems like a big old frame job."

• Andy McCabe [58:36]: "The threat of prosecution will silence a lot of people... people might say nothing."

• Alison Gill [64:30]: "The Constitution limits you to two terms... the states will still have elections."

Final Thoughts

In this episode, Gill and McCabe provide a comprehensive analysis of the ongoing legal and political maneuvers that continue to shape the landscape surrounding Donald Trump’s legal challenges. From troubling DOJ nominations to resignation within the FBI's highest ranks, and the disheartening guilty plea of an informant, the hosts elucidate the complexities of maintaining judicial integrity amidst partisan pressures. The episode serves as a crucial resource for listeners seeking to understand the delicate balance between power, law, and accountability in contemporary American politics.

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