Podcast Summary: UnJustified, Episode 39: "No Bill Prizes"

Podcast: UnJustified (MSW Media)
Date: October 19, 2025
Host(s): Allison Gill & Andrew (Andy) McCabe

Episode Overview

This episode dissects the latest seismic shifts and controversies within the U.S. Department of Justice under Trump's ongoing administration. Gill and McCabe examine the politicization of prosecutions, indictments of high-profile figures (John Bolton, James Comey, Letitia James), courtroom dramas and failures, the alarming erosion of career DOJ personnel, and the direct threats to civil service integrity. The tone is engaging, skeptical, and laced with wry humor as the hosts elucidate highly complex legal developments and institutional dangers for listeners.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Indictment of John Bolton (00:06–24:59)

a. The Seriousness and Construction of the Case

• Bolton, former National Security Advisor, indicted on 18 Espionage Act counts for transmission and retention of national defense information.
• The indictment is markedly NOT "barebones" or overtly political—crafted and endorsed by career DOJ prosecutors, not just a political appointee.
• "I was really looking for stupid in this indictment ... It's not in there." – Allison Gill [03:05]

b. The Political Motivation and Legal Substance

• While reopening the Bolton case appears politically motivated after previously being closed, the hosts recognize the actual criminality in evidence here.
• McCabe stresses: Intent ("willful retention and transmission") is something DOJ must prove.
  • Evidence includes thousands of classified pages, regular distribution to Bolton's wife and daughter (individuals w/o clearance), and instructing them to keep it secret.

c. Important Distinctions

• Unlike the Trump/Biden/Pence classified docs matters, where intent could not be shown, here there’s "active" conduct and digital trails.
• Missing element: DOJ never gave Bolton a specific "return request," which weakens the comparison to the Trump Mar-a-Lago case.

d. Notable "Bad Fact": The Iran Hack

• Bolton's personal email was hacked by agents linked to Iran, potentially exposing the classified diaries.
• "Well, in this case, it actually ended up in the hands of the enemy... The bad thing happened here. The Iranians got in." – Andy McCabe [20:47]

e. Defense and Open Questions

• Bolton’s lawyer, Abby Lowell, claims these were personal diaries, shared only with family, and the case was previously "resolved."
• The hosts speculate DOJ will need to explain why they revived prosecution and what evidence was newly discovered.

2. Rapid Developments in the Comey Case (27:50–36:08)

a. Judge Pushes Back on DOJ Motion

• Attempts by DOJ to restrict James Comey's access to discovery material were laughed out of court. Judge Nachmanoff highlighted Comey's security history and the overbroad protective order request.
• "He was the director of the FBI. He can see it. Right?" – Allison Gill [27:50]
• Judge Nakhmanoff sets a "rocket docket" schedule, swiftly moving to trial and sharply contrasting Judge Cannon’s delays in Trump's Mar-a-Lago case.

b. Quick & Decisive SEPA Schedule

• The judge outlines a tight Classified Information Procedures Act ("SEPA") process.
• "This is the true rocket docket right here playing out in front of me." – Andy McCabe [35:12]

c. The Weakness of the Case

• The Comey indictment is ultra-thin on detail and substance. Key motions to dismiss are expected soon.

3. Embarrassing DOJ Loss: The Reed Acquittal (37:00–44:34)

a. The Case

• Jeannie Pirro’s DOJ office lost a misdemeanor case against Sidney Reed, accused of assaulting an FBI agent. Prosecutors relied on flimsy evidence; surveillance video disproved allegations.
• Major evidentiary issues: missing messages, late-disclosed video, and the sole agent witness disparaged the defendant in text.

b. Judicial Rebuke

• Judge Sukhnanan repeatedly scolded the prosecution for "playing games" and mishandling evidence.
• "I would never make light of an assault on an FBI agent ... but as we get deeper in the story, you will see the question of the assault and whether it actually happened and what evidence there is of it is particularly relevant." – Andy McCabe [37:05]

4. DOJ Brain Drain and Political Interference (45:15–53:06)

a. Ousting of Career Prosecutors

• Multiple career DOJ prosecutors (e.g., Maggie Cleary) were removed or reassigned, often after resisting politically-driven cases.
• The theme is the increasing replacement of merit-based professionals by Trump loyalists (e.g., Lindsay Halligan).

b. Politically Driven Investigations, Not Actual Crimes

• DOJ seeks criminal charges in cases lacking substance, e.g., "burn bags" of classified documents already digitally archived; pressure from Kash Patel and Dan Bongino for show trials.
• Western District of Virginia used for dubious venue claims, dodging D.C. juries.

c. Chilling Effect on DOJ Culture

• Career resistance, such as by Todd Gilbert, leads directly to firings, social media "Anchorman" references ("...that escalated quickly."), and resignation out of principle.

5. Congressional & Political Pressure on DOJ (54:23–56:36)

• Jack Smith Subpoena: Rep. Jim Jordan demands former Special Counsel Jack Smith testify behind closed doors, alleging politically motivated investigations.
  • The hosts mock this as both chilling and laughable: "They want him in the vault with a sock in his mouth." – Andy McCabe [54:23]
  • Smith recently broke his public silence in an interview with Andrew Weissmann.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I couldn't. I was really looking for stupid in this indictment. It's not in there.” – Allison Gill [03:05]
• “There’s plenty of stupid around this issue. That’s kind of the second or third order impact that Donald Trump’s statements... obliteration of the independence of the DOJ…” – Andy McCabe [03:06]
• “Bolton is alleged to have... actively writing things every day and sending them to people without clearance. He’s cautioning them not to talk to others about it.” – Andy McCabe [07:03]
• “In this case, [the damage] actually ended up in the hands of the enemy. The bad thing happened here. The Iranians got in.” – Andy McCabe [20:47]
• “The gold toilet does not comply with the DNI registry.” – Andy McCabe, on Trump’s rumored SCIF [15:10]
• “This is the true rocket docket right here playing out in front of me.” – Andy McCabe [35:12]
• “If an agent had done these issues, with the text messages, missing evidence, that would result in an OPR investigation for potential misconduct.” – Andy McCabe [42:42]
• "That's like Mike Tyson fighting my golden retriever... that's an insult to your golden retriever, I have to say." – Allison Gill & Andy McCabe (re: prosecutorial mismatch) [36:38]
• “It's heartbreaking... [FBI staff] are preparing for that moment when they have to resign rather than do something illegal, inappropriate, or unethical... in the entirety of my 21 years, I never, ever thought of that. I never had to worry that the people I worked for were going to ask me to do something illegal...” – Andy McCabe [61:31]

Listener Questions & The "No Bill Prize" (56:46–58:30)

• "No Bill Prize" Gag Award: Laugh-out-loud exchange about awarding "Nobel/Nobill Prizes" to grand juries or prosecutors who repeatedly refuse to indict on weak, politicized evidence.
• Staff Morale Question: Deep concerns from listeners and hosts about demoralization and ethical strain facing FBI/DOJ staff forced to choose between professional integrity and job security.

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Indictment of John Bolton: 00:06–24:59
• Comey Case – Judicial Pushback & Rocket Docket: 27:50–36:08
• Reed Acquittal & Courtroom Disaster: 37:00–44:34
• DOJ Brain Drain / Staff Firings: 45:15–53:06
• Jack Smith Congressional Subpoena: 54:23–56:36
• No Bill Prize/Listener Questions: 56:46–end

Conclusion & Tone

Gill and McCabe present a grounded, at times incredulous, and always witty analysis of DOJ’s turmoil and the continuous battle over rule of law. They warn listeners about the mounting internal threats to the Justice Department’s integrity and its inevitable ripple effects on democracy and accountability.

“Thank you all so much for listening and we’ll see you then, and I hope you have a great rest of your week. I’m Alison Gill.” – [64:47]

For more details: Visit MSW Media or reference the full episode for further briefing on ongoing cases.