Podcast
Unlearn
Hosted by Barry O'Reilly · EN
The way to think differently is to act differently and get comfortable with being uncomfortable. For business leaders, entrepreneurs, managers and anyone who wants to improve how they work and live: Welcome to the Unlearn Podcast. Host Barry O’Reilly, author of Unlearn and Lean Enterprise seeks to synthesize the superpowers of extraordinary individuals into actionable strategies you can use—to Think BIG, start small and learn fast, and find your edge with excellence.
26episodes
Episodes
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Incorruptible with Eric Ries
5d ago00:54:33Tap to summarizeIncorruptible with Eric RiesWhat if the companies that last the longest are the ones building enough trust that people want to keep participating in them? That’s the idea behind this conversation with Eric Ries — entrepreneur, author of The Lean Startup, and now Incorruptible.Through stories such as Volvo giving away the seatbelt patent, Tony’s Chocolonely opening its ethical supply chain to competitors, and Mary Parker Follett’s idea of the “invisible leader,” we explore how organizations create lasting advantage through trust, shared purpose, and systems that hold together as companies scale.We also unpack why so many businesses drift toward short-term extraction, what leaders misunderstand about organizational health, and why AI is exposing deeper weaknesses in how companies operate.If you’re building a company and questioning whether business-as-usual is still the right operating system, this conversation is for you.Key TakeawaysEthical business can outperform extractive business models: Eric argues that mission-driven companies are not sacrificing performance. In many cases, trust, alignment, and long-term thinking create stronger economic outcomes.Volvo used open ecosystems as strategy: Giving away the three-point seat belt patent helped establish safety as an industry standard while positioning Volvo as the global leader in automotive safety.Tony’s Chocolonely treats its mission as infrastructure: The company’s goal is not simply selling chocolate. Its mission is to eliminate child slavery from the cacao supply chain through systems that competitors can also adopt.Positive externalities can strengthen competitive advantage: Eric explains how companies can create value by improving the broader ecosystem around them instead of maximizing short-term value extraction.Organizations are shaped by invisible leadership: Mary Parker Follett’s idea of the “invisible leader” shows how shared purpose influences decisions when executives are not in the room.Organizational health cannot be commanded: Leaders can issue instructions, but trust, accountability, and commitment have to be cultivated through systems and behavior over time.Additional InsightsThe current business narrative rewards extraction over durability: Barry and Eric discuss how modern startup culture often glorifies hyper-efficient solo founders, aggressive cost-cutting, and short-term returns while ignoring long-term organizational health.AI is amplifying leadership weaknesses, not solving them: As companies use AI to accelerate decision-making and productivity, leaders are being forced to confront whether their systems actually create clarity, trust, and aligned behavior.Mission statements are easy. Mission transmission is harder: Eric argues that values only matter when they shape real decisions, incentives, hiring, product tradeoffs, and customer experience.Open systems can expand both impact and market position: From Linux and Git to Netflix influencing AWS through open source tooling, the episode explores how sharing infrastructure can strengthen an ecosystem while also benefiting the originating company.Profit becomes dangerous when it ignores externalities: Eric explains how traditional profit models often fail to account for long-term brand damage, human cost, environmental impact, and deferred liabilities.Episode Highlights00:00 – Episode RecapEric Ries explains why organizations are living systems, not machines to be controlled. Leaders can command action, but organizational health has to be cultivated through purpose, trust, and the systems people use when no one is watching.00:57 – Barry’s Opening ReflectionBarry connects AI, leadership, and decision-making systems before introducing Eric’s new book, Incorruptible.02:14 – Guest Introduction: Eric RiesBarry introduces Eric Ries, entrepreneur, author of The Lean Startup, and author of Incorruptible, framing the conversation around ethical business as a path to long-term prosperity.04:34 – Researching the Stories Behind IncorruptibleEric shares how much research went into the book, including the challenge of finding stories that were not just interesting, but genuinely useful for leaders.08:07 – Volvo and the “Seatbelt Heist”Eric breaks down how Volvo’s decision to give away the three-point seat belt patent created a prosperity cascade that reshaped the industry while strengthening Volvo’s long-term brand position around safety.16:45 – Open Source as StrategyBarry connects Volvo’s story to Netflix and cloud computing, where open sourcing internal tools helped shape the direction of the broader ecosystem.17:57 – Positive Externalities as Business StrategyEric explains why companies often overlook opportunities to create value by improving the wider system around them.20:18 – Tony’s Chocolonely and Slave-Free ChocolateEric tells the story of how a Dutch journalist turned frustration over child labor in cacao production into a fast-growing chocolate company with a much larger mission.24:03 – Mission Beyond the ProductTony’s mission is not simply making chocolate. The business exists to eliminate child slavery from the cacao supply chain and align economics with ethical sourcing.26:00 – Tony’s Open ChainEric explains how Tony’s opened its ethical supply chain to competitors while requiring them to commit to the same standards across all their chocolate products.30:32 – The False Tradeoff Between Ethics and PerformanceEric challenges the business-school assumption that companies must choose between mission and profit, arguing that the data often shows the opposite.33:23 – Redefining ProfitBarry and Eric discuss why traditional definitions of profit often ignore externalities, deferred liabilities, human cost, and long-term brand damage.39:19 – The Myth of the Solo FounderBarry pushes back on modern founder mythology and explains why anything built to last depends on systems, teams, and shared ownership.40:36 – Mary Parker Follett and the Invisible LeaderEric introduces management thinker Mary Parker Follett and explains why her ideas about shared purpose and distributed authority were decades ahead of their time.45:00 – What Guides Decisions When Leaders Aren’t PresentEric explores Follett’s idea of the invisible leader: the shared sense of purpose that influences behavior when no executive is in the room.49:35 – Organizations as Living SystemsEric compares organizations to emergent intelligence systems like ant colonies or the human body, arguing that leaders can cultivate organizational health but cannot directly command it.52:30 – Closing ReflectionsBarry and Eric reflect on the need for new business models that prioritize trust, mission alignment, and long-term value creation over extraction.Useful ResourcesEric Ries — IncorruptibleEric Ries — The Lean StartupEric Ries on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/eries/ The Eric Ries Show YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow Barry O’Reilly — Artificial Organizations - https://geni.us/artificialorgsFAQsQ1: What is Eric Ries’ book Incorruptible about?Incorruptible explores how leaders can build companies that stay aligned with their mission as they grow. Eric looks at stories from business history to show how purpose, governance, incentives, and ownership shape whether companies create long-term value or lose their way.Q2: Why does Eric Ries use Volvo as an example?Volvo’s three-point seat belt story shows how a company can create value by spreading a mission beyond its own products. By making the patent available to others, Volvo helped establish safety as an industry standard while strengthening its own reputation for safety.Q3: What is Tony’s Chocolonely trying to change?Tony’s Chocolonely is trying to eliminate child slavery from the cacao supply chain. The company sells chocolate, but the deeper mechanism is building an ethical supply chain that other companies can use through Tony’s Open Chain.Q4: What does Mary Parker Follett mean by the invisible leader?The invisible leader is the shared purpose that guides people’s decisions when no formal leader is present. It is what shapes behavior in everyday moments, such as how teams handle quality issues, customer problems, or ethical tradeoffs.Q5: Can leaders c...
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Do Less, Win More: How Niche Focus Cuts Through the Noise with Tas Bober
3w ago00:40:30Tap to summarizeMost people think growth comes from doing more—more services, more offers, more complexity. But in this episode, I sit down with Tas Bober, who did the exact opposite. She stripped everything back, focused on one problem, and built a business so clear people can describe it in a single sentence. This conversation is about the courage to simplify—and why that’s far harder (and more powerful) than it sounds.Tas didn’t plan to become an entrepreneur. After layoffs, burnout, and a side experiment on LinkedIn, she found herself with unexpected demand—but no clear direction. It wasn’t until she made a bold, uncomfortable decision to niche down into landing pages that everything changed. What followed is a masterclass in clarity, positioning, and designing a business that actually fits your life—not the other way around.Key TakeawaysNiching down creates clarity: Focusing on one problem made it obvious what Tas does—and why clients should choose her.Doing less accelerates growth: Eliminating distractions and context switching improved both quality and income.Clarity beats capability: Being known for one thing is more valuable than being able to do many.Positioning drives inbound demand: Clear positioning meant clients showed up with defined problems—making selling easier.Data should guide decisions: Tracking time revealed which work actually delivered the highest return.Design your business around your life: Tas optimized for time, flexibility, and energy—not scale for the sake of it.Additional InsightsTrying to do everything can make you lose authority: You shift from expert to order taker.Community accelerates growth: Trusted peers help challenge thinking and shorten the learning curve.Scarcity mindset delays focus: Holding onto everything early can prevent meaningful progress.AI amplifies thinking—it doesn’t replace it: Expertise and nuance still drive better outcomes.Simplicity requires discipline: Even after success, the temptation to expand never goes away.Episode Highlights00:00 – Episode RecapTas shares how narrowing her focus to one specific problem transformed her business, income, and lifestyle.01:00 – The Accidental EntrepreneurTas reflects on being laid off twice and how a side experiment on LinkedIn unexpectedly opened new opportunities.05:00 – The Struggle of Starting OutShe describes the early chaos of offering everything, underpricing, and trying to figure out what problem she actually solved.08:30 – The Niching Down BreakthroughA peer challenges Tas to focus on landing pages—and within a week, everything changes.12:30 – Why Clarity Wins in BusinessBarry and Tas unpack why being known for one thing beats showcasing a wide range of capabilities.17:00 – The Power of Focused RepetitionTas explains how working on the same problem repeatedly builds deep expertise and pattern recognition.20:30 – The Economics of SpecializationTracking her time reveals a stark difference in earnings between general consulting and niche work.24:30 – Cutting Everything ElseTas makes the difficult decision to eliminate all other services and go all-in on landing pages.26:00 – Resisting the Urge to ExpandEven after success, the temptation to do more returns—and why discipline is required to stay focused.29:00 – Fast Decisions and IterationTas shares her approach to reversible decisions and rapid experimentation.31:00 – Building a Values-Driven BusinessShe discusses choosing clients based on alignment and maintaining an audience-first mindset.34:00 – The Role of Simplicity in GrowthBarry highlights how clear positioning is often the biggest unlock for entrepreneurs.36:50 – Designing a Business Around LifeTas reflects on working three days a week and prioritizing enjoyment and flexibility.38:00 – AI, Creativity, and Human InsightWhy AI can’t replace nuanced expertise—and how human judgment remains critical.39:30 – Closing ReflectionsA final look at growth, experimentation, and the ongoing journey of building something meaningful.FAQsQ1. Why is niching down important for business growth?Niching down creates clarity in your positioning, making it easier for customers to understand what you do and why they should choose you. It also improves inbound demand and simplifies sales conversations.Q2. Can focusing on one service really increase revenue?Yes. Specializing allows you to become more efficient, deliver higher-quality results, and charge premium rates—often earning more while working less.Q3. How do you choose the right niche for your business?The best niche sits at the intersection of your experience, market demand, and repeatable problems you’ve solved. Testing a niche for a defined period can help validate it quickly.Q4. What are the benefits of clear positioning in a crowded market?Clear positioning helps you stand out by making you the first person people think of when they have a specific problem, reducing competition and increasing trust.Q5. How does specialization compare to using AI tools in business?AI can support execution, but it lacks the nuanced insight and pattern recognition that comes from deep specialization. Experts who focus on one problem can deliver more valuable and differentiated outcomes.
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Solve Business Problem with People with Melanie Steinbach
Apr 1500:45:19Tap to summarizeMost leaders think AI is a technology shift. It’s not. It’s a behavior shift.In this episode, I sit down with Melanie Steinbach—former Chief HR Officer at McDonald’s, Cameo, and MasterClass—to unpack what’s actually changing inside organizations as AI becomes embedded in how we work.Melanie has spent her career solving business problems through people. But she challenges a core assumption: that performance problems are solved by replacing people. Instead, the real leverage comes from coaching, clarity, and creating the conditions for people to do their best work.We explore why AI doesn’t replace leadership—it exposes it. And what that means for AI leadership and decision-making inside modern organizations. Same tools. Same access. Completely different outcomes. The difference comes down to how leaders think, make decisions, and design systems around their teams.We also unpack a critical shift most organizations aren’t ready for: redefining what “valuable work” actually means. For years, being busy—and being in meetings—has been treated as a proxy for value. But when AI handles execution, value moves to judgment, context, and decision quality.If you’re leading teams, navigating transformation, or trying to understand where AI actually fits in your organization, this conversation will change how you think about leadership, work, and performance.Key TakeawaysSolving business problems through people isn’t about replacement: The real leverage comes from coaching, clarity, and creating the conditions for people to succeed.AI exposes how you lead: The same tools produce radically different outcomes depending on how you think and make decisions.Clarity drives performance: When expectations are vague, even high performers struggle to deliver.Context is now the constraint: Information is everywhere, but leaders create value by helping teams interpret and act on it.Busy work is losing its signal: Meetings and activity no longer define value—decision quality does.AI requires behavior change, not just adoption: The advantage goes to leaders who change how they work, not just what tools they use.Judgment is the differentiator: AI can generate answers, but leaders are still responsible for making the call.Additional InsightsPerformance problems are often system problems: Most people want to do a good job, but unclear expectations and missing context get in the way.Onboarding is being rebuilt in real time: AI enables “what you need to know, when you need to know it” instead of static training programs.Leadership is shifting from answers to perspective: The value is no longer having information—it’s providing context and nuance.Meetings were a proxy for value: Being busy created the illusion of impact, but that signal is breaking down fast.Work is being unbundled: Roles are no longer fixed—they’re collections of tasks being redistributed between humans and machines.Episode Highlights00:00 – Episode RecapMelanie Steinbach reframes how organizations solve business problems, shifting the focus from replacing people to unlocking their potential through clarity, coaching, and better systems.01:30 – Guest Introduction: Melanie SteinbachFormer Chief HR Officer at McDonald’s, Cameo, and MasterClass, Melanie has led transformation at scale across some of the world’s most recognized organizations.03:49 – From Replacement to DevelopmentMelanie shares the moment she realized solving business problems through people isn’t about hiring differently—it’s about developing the people you already have.06:35 – Why People Want to Do a Good JobMost employees aren’t underperforming by choice—they’re missing clarity, skills, or expectations.08:24 – The Cost of Missing ClarityUnclear systems create friction, confusion, and unnecessary failure—even in high-performing environments.11:18 – Culture Shapes BehaviorIn some organizations, asking questions signals curiosity. In others, it signals weakness—and that changes everything.18:14 – AI Changes How People LearnOnboarding and development become dynamic, personalized, and driven by real-time needs.22:02 – From Knowledge to ContextLeadership evolves from delivering information to helping teams interpret and apply it effectively.24:41 – Presence Becomes a SuperpowerAI reduces cognitive load, allowing leaders to show up focused, prepared, and ready to make decisions.28:06 – Why Humans Still MatterTechnology amplifies systems, but judgment, meaning, and connection remain human.32:00 – Rethinking Valuable WorkBeing busy is no longer proof of impact—decision quality is.35:16 – A New Metric for PerformanceHigh-quality decisions—made faster with better context—become the new standard.38:58 – Thinking Is the New AdvantageCreating space to think clearly becomes one of the most valuable leadership skills.41:55 – Work Is Being RedefinedJobs are breaking into tasks, with AI handling execution and humans focusing on judgment.42:33 – Why This Moment MattersMelanie shares why she’s stepping in to help organizations navigate this shift across industries.44:04 – Closing ReflectionsThis isn’t a small shift—it’s a fundamental redesign of how work gets done and how leaders create value.
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Stop Chasing Productivity—Start Thinking Better with AI with Misty Shafer Sterne
Apr 100:39:40Tap to summarizeAI isn’t changing the game—it’s exposing how you think. In this episode, I sit down with Misty Shafer Sterne, Vice President of Commercial Technology at American Airlines, to explore what it really takes to lead with AI inside a complex, high-stakes organization. We go beyond the usual productivity narrative and dig into something far more powerful: how AI can sharpen decision-making, surface better questions, and help leaders operate with greater clarity and intent.Misty shares her journey from chasing efficiency to building a personal system for thinking—using AI as a partner to capture ideas, pressure test decisions, and improve how she shows up as a leader. We also unpack why experimentation matters more than metrics early on, how to avoid automating broken processes, and what it looks like to lead in the open so teams can follow. This is a conversation about performance, not productivity—and what it means to truly unlearn how we work.Key TakeawaysAI amplifies how you think: The real advantage isn’t speed but improving clarity, judgment, and decision-making quality.Productivity is just the entry point: The biggest gains come from using AI to enhance performance, not just efficiency.Experimentation must come before measurement: Over-indexing on productivity metrics too early can shut down innovation.Leaders must unlearn being the “answer person”: Great leadership shifts toward asking better questions rather than having all the answers.Decision velocity matters more than idea volume: Success comes from quickly identifying which ideas are worth pursuing, not generating more ideas.Additional InsightsAI as a thinking partner: Misty’s breakthrough came when she used AI to pressure test ideas instead of manage tasks.Externalizing thinking creates clarity: Capturing raw, messy thoughts helps reveal patterns and improve decision-making.Your thinking becomes a reusable asset: AI enables leaders to build a system that stores and evolves their ideas over time.Automating bad processes makes them worse: AI should be used to redesign workflows, not just accelerate existing inefficiencies.Leadership requires learning in public: Vulnerability and visible experimentation help drive adoption across teams.Episode Highlights00:00 – Episode RecapA shift from chasing productivity to unlocking better thinking transforms how leaders use AI—turning it into a true decision-making partner rather than just a tool.02:00 – Guest Introduction: Misty Shafer SterneBarry introduces Misty, VP of Commercial at American Airlines, leading AI-driven decision-making across pricing, customer experience, and revenue.04:25 – From Perfection to CuriosityMisty reflects on her journey from needing all the answers to embracing vulnerability and asking better questions as a leader.07:45 – The Productivity TrapEarly AI use focused on inbox management and efficiency, but Misty realized this wasn’t where real value lies.09:30 – AI as a Thinking PartnerUsing AI to externalize thoughts, identify patterns, and pressure test ideas unlocks a new level of clarity and decision-making.12:30 – Performance Over ProductivityThe real benefit of AI is improving how leaders show up, think, and collaborate—not just getting more done.15:15 – Capturing Ideas Before They’re LostVerbal processing and real-time capture help preserve insights and connect ideas over time.18:18 – Building a System of ThinkingAccumulating ideas creates a long-term asset that helps leaders identify patterns and improve decisions.21:25 – Why Experimentation Needs SpaceOver-measuring productivity too early can limit exploration and reduce the potential of AI adoption.24:33 – Context Matters in DecisionsCapturing why decisions were made enables better future judgment as conditions change.29:04 – Leading by ExampleMisty shares how modeling experimentation helped shift her organization from fear to adoption.33:40 – The Danger of Automating Bad ProcessesAI can amplify poor systems—leaders must rethink workflows, not just speed them up.36:03 – Redesigning Work for Better OutcomesTrue transformation comes from changing behavior and systems, not just adopting tools.38:45 – Unlocking Ideas Across the OrganizationAI democratizes innovation, requiring leaders to step back and let the best ideas emerge from anywhere.FAQs1. What is the biggest mistake leaders make when adopting AI?Focusing too much on productivity metrics early on instead of creating space for experimentation and learning.2. How should leaders actually use AI in their daily work?As a thinking partner—to capture ideas, pressure test decisions, and improve clarity, not just automate tasks.3. What does “decision velocity” mean?It’s the ability to make faster, higher-quality decisions with confidence by using better information and structured thinking.4. Why is experimentation so important in AI adoption?Because the real value emerges through exploration—rigid expectations can limit discovery and innovation.5. How can leaders avoid damaging their teams when introducing AI?By leading with transparency, modeling behavior, and ensuring AI enhances collaboration rather than creating pressure or fear.Useful ResourcesMisty Shafer on LinkedInAmerican Airlines on LinkedInAmerican Airlines WebsiteArtificial Organizations by Barry O’ReillyBrené Brown – “Rumbling” and leadership frameworksFollow the HostLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barryoreillyPersonal site: https://barryoreilly.comFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/barryoreillyauthor/Twitter: https://x.com/barryoreillyInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/barryoreilly/
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Capital Evolution: The Future of Business and AI
Mar 1800:45:40Tap to summarizeWhat role should businesses play in society today?In this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, I sit down with investor, ecosystem builder, and Foundry Group co-founder Seth Levine to explore how capitalism itself may be evolving. Seth’s latest book, Capital Evolution, examines a fundamental question: can modern capitalism create broader opportunity, stronger communities, and more inclusive ownership?Our conversation ranges from declining economic mobility and generational uncertainty to the role of values-driven companies and the rise of AI-powered work. We also dive into how leaders can navigate uncertainty—balancing profit, purpose, and technological disruption.Along the way, Seth shares how a single dinner conversation sparked a two-year research journey, interviewing more than 100 leaders, academics, and entrepreneurs to understand where capitalism may be headed next.This conversation also builds on ideas we’ve explored before on the podcast—particularly with Seth’s long-time collaborator Brad Feld. In our earlier discussion on Give First leadership, Brad challenged the idea that success comes from extraction, instead arguing that generosity, long-term thinking, and community building are the real drivers of sustainable impact. Together, these conversations offer a powerful lens on how leadership, capitalism, and value creation are being redefined.If you’re thinking about the future of work, leadership in an AI-powered world, or how organizations can create both economic and societal value, this episode will challenge some assumptions.Key TakeawaysCapitalism is already evolving: Many leaders still operate as if we’re in a shareholder-first world—but that model has already shifted. Businesses now face growing pressure to balance profit with broader societal impact.Economic mobility is declining: While economies continue to grow in aggregate, fewer people are able to move up financially. This shift is reshaping how younger generations view opportunity and fairness.Values-driven companies are becoming more visible: Organizations like Patagonia, Hobby Lobby, and Chick-fil-A show that companies can operate with clear values. What matters most is transparency—being honest about what the organization stands for.AI is changing how leaders work: Seth describes using AI tools like Claude as an operating system for his daily work—drafting ideas, exploring questions, and accelerating thinking. Leaders who combine human judgment with machine intelligence can dramatically increase their effectiveness.Curiosity and listening are leadership superpowers: One of Seth’s biggest lessons from writing the book was the value of listening to perspectives outside his own experience. Engaging with different viewpoints reveals insights leaders often miss.Additional InsightsThe danger of misleading economic averages: Seth describes the “Jeff Bezos walks into a bar” problem—where averages distort reality. Aggregate growth can hide widening inequality and declining mobility.The difference between values and politics in business: Companies should be clear about their values—but that doesn’t mean every company needs to take political positions. Transparency builds trust with employees, investors, and customers.Why younger generations feel uncertain: Many are entering a world shaped by rapid technological change, rising costs of living, and shifting job markets. AI both excites and worries people about what work will look like.AI rewards experimentation: The people benefiting most from AI are those who continuously experiment. Treating AI as a collaborator—not just a tool—opens entirely new ways of working.Episode Highlights00:00 – Episode RecapSeth Levine reflects on the changing nature of capitalism and why declining economic mobility, shifting values, and AI-driven disruption are forcing leaders to rethink how businesses create value for society.02:40 – Guest Introduction: Seth LevineBarry introduces Seth Levine, co-founder and partner at Foundry Group, entrepreneur advocate, and author of Capital Evolution, a book exploring how capitalism can evolve to create broader opportunity.05:00 – The Dinner Conversation That Sparked a BookSeth describes the boardroom conversation that sparked the idea behind Capital Evolution—a question about whether investors would accept lower returns in order to live their values.07:53 – Why the Capitalism Debate Is GrowingResearch for the book revealed that roughly half of people under 40 believe capitalism isn’t working—prompting a deeper exploration of how the system might evolve.10:33 – Values-Driven Businesses in PracticeExamples like Patagonia and Hobby Lobby show how companies can operate with strong values while still pursuing business success.19:14 – Generational Anxiety About the FutureYounger generations face growing uncertainty about careers, technology disruption, and economic opportunity.23:38 – Learning From Different PerspectivesTravel, conversations, and research helped Seth recognize how limited our understanding can be when we stay within familiar social and professional circles.29:30 – Experimenting With AI at WorkSeth shares how tools like Claude have become part of his daily workflow—helping him explore ideas, draft writing, and accelerate thinking.33:38 – Why AI Feels Exciting AgainAfter decades in venture capital, Levine says experimenting with AI tools has reintroduced a sense of novelty and curiosity into his work.40:51 – The Pattern of Every New TechnologyFrom automobiles to AI, every major technological shift initially sparks fear before becoming normalized.42:07 – A Simple Leadership Habit: Listen MoreSeth encourages leaders to actively seek conversations with people who hold different perspectives—and listen without trying to persuade.45:00 – Closing ReflectionsBarry wraps the conversation, highlighting the importance of curiosity, experimentation, and openness as leaders navigate the evolving relationship between business, society, and technology.FAQsQ1. What is Capital Evolution and why is it important?Capital Evolution describes how capitalism is shifting beyond a shareholder-first model toward creating broader societal value. It’s important because businesses are now expected to balance profit with impact, ownership, and community outcomes.Q2. Why is economic mobility declining today?Economic mobility is declining because wealth and opportunity are increasingly concentrated. Even as economies grow overall, fewer people can move up income levels, making it harder for younger generations to improve their financial position.Q3. What role should businesses play in society today?Businesses should generate profit while also contributing to society through clear values, responsible decision-making, and long-term thinking. The most effective companies align economic success with positive societal impact.Q4. How is AI changing leadership and the future of work?AI is transforming leadership by enhancing decision-making and productivity. Leaders who combine human judgment with AI tools can move faster, process more information, and make better strategic decisions.Q5. Why are younger generations questioning capitalism?Younger generations are questioning capitalism due to rising living costs, job uncertainty, and reduced economic mobility. These challenges make traditional systems feel less fair and less effective than in the past.Useful Resources:Seth Levine on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sethjlevine/ Foundry Website - https://foundry.vc/ Seth Levine Book: Capital Evolution - https://www.amazon.com/Capital-Evolution-New-American-Economy/dp/1637747780 Unlearn Episode 160 with Brad Feld - https://barryoreilly.com/explore/podcast/give-first-leadership-brad-feld/ Follow the Host:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barryoreillyPersonal site: https://barryoreilly.comFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/barryoreillyauthor/Twitter/X: https://x.com/barryoreillyInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/barryoreilly/
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Frictionless, Artificial Organizations: Measuring What Matters in the Age of AI
Mar 400:33:00Tap to summarizeAI can now generate code in seconds. Deployment pipelines are faster than ever. And yet, many teams still feel slow.In this episode, I sit down with Nicole Forsgren, world-renowned researcher, co-author of Accelerate, and Senior Director of Developer Intelligence at Google. We explore why speed alone doesn’t create performance — and how hidden friction inside systems, culture, and decision-making quietly holds teams back.Nicole breaks down the SPACE framework, explains why activity metrics create blind spots, and challenges leaders to rethink what productivity really means in the era of AI agents. If you're measuring output but still not seeing impact, this conversation will help you recalibrate.Key TakeawaysProductivity is multidimensional, not just output: Measuring activity alone creates blind spots. Real performance includes satisfaction, quality, collaboration, and flow.System constraints determine team speed: Improving individual teams isn’t enough. Performance improves only when bottlenecks across the entire value stream are addressed.AI accelerates existing systems: Automation increases throughput, but it doesn’t remove friction. Weak processes and structural gaps become more visible as speed increases.Trust becomes a performance factor in AI workflows: As agents contribute to development, validation systems, guardrails, and confidence mechanisms become essential.Strategy must come before acceleration: Building the wrong thing faster does not create value. Leaders must define direction before optimizing delivery.Additional InsightsOrganizations scrutinize AI more than human decisions: We often ask whether AI is producing the right output. Yet we rarely question whether human teams are building the right thing either.AI forces leaders to clarify judgment: Working with agents requires teams to make their assumptions explicit by defining heuristics, edge cases, and decision rules that previously lived in intuition.Many bottlenecks are decision bottlenecks: Delays often come from postponed decisions, including security reviews, approvals, and quality checks placed late in the workflow.AI exposes the limits of existing infrastructure: Faster development cycles put pressure on testing systems, CI/CD pipelines, and operational workflows designed for slower environments.Episode Highlights00:00 – Episode RecapEven as AI accelerates development, many teams feel slower than ever — revealing that friction isn’t about code speed but about how systems, culture, and decisions are designed.02:38 – Guest Introduction: Nicole ForsgrenBarry introduces Nicole Forsgren — researcher, co-author of Accelerate, and Senior Director of Developer Intelligence at Google — whose work has redefined how technology performance is measured.07:08 – The SPACE Framework ExplainedNicole breaks down Satisfaction, Performance, Activity, Communication, and Efficiency — a practical guardrail to measure productivity across multiple dimensions.10:19 – Why Optimizing Locally Creates BottlenecksTeams often improve within their own scope, only to worsen constraints elsewhere in the system. Real performance requires zooming out.12:37 – Simple Surveys That Surface Hidden FrictionA few focused questions can quickly reveal productivity barriers — especially when frequency of disruption is measured alongside frustration.15:51 – Culture, Curiosity, and System DesignMost structural problems come from rational past decisions. Approaching friction with curiosity — not blame — creates safety and clarity.18:07 – Moving Decisions UpstreamFrom flaky tests to security reviews, many delays are postponed decisions. The opportunity is shifting confidence-building earlier in the workflow.22:18 – Making Implicit Judgment ExplicitAI agents force leaders to articulate the heuristics and assumptions they previously ran on instinct — improving both human and machine judgment.25:48 – Are Humans Building the Right Thing?We question AI correctness — but rarely apply the same scrutiny to human output. Strategy clarity remains a leadership responsibility.30:01 – AI Amplifies Existing BottlenecksAs agents increase throughput, weaknesses in pipelines, testing, and infrastructure become more visible — and more urgent.32:05 – Removing Friction to Unlock Real PerformanceTrue competitive advantage comes from redesigning systems of work — not just accelerating output.Follow the HostLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barryoreillyPersonal site: https://barryoreilly.comFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/barryoreillyauthor/Twitter/X: https://x.com/barryoreillyInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/barryoreilly/
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Artificial Organizations: Judgment at Speed in the Age of AI
Feb 1800:30:00Tap to summarizeAI isn’t about productivity. It’s about presence.In this special episode, the tables turn and I’m interviewed by Sham Colegado about my new book, Artificial Organizations. We explore why 95% of AI projects fail, why executives don’t want more tools — they want their life back — and how the real competitive edge isn’t automation, but judgment at speed.If you’ve been overwhelmed by the explosion of AI tools or unsure where to start, this episode will help you reframe the conversation. This isn’t about doing more. It’s about deciding better — faster, with clarity and confidence — by combining human instinct with machine intelligence.Key TakeawaysAI Used Only for Productivity Fails: When AI is treated as a cost-cutting tool instead of a transformation system, it rarely creates lasting value.Presence Is the Real Advantage: The goal isn’t more output. It’s showing up calmer, clearer, and better prepared — so decisions improve.Decision Velocity + Decision Advantage Wins: Make decisions faster and with better information. Speed without clarity is noise. Clarity without speed is stagnation.The Future Belongs to Human + Machine Judgment: Executives who combine instinct with machine intelligence will outperform those relying on either alone.Additional InsightsExecutives Don’t Want More Tools — They Want Their Life Back: Leaders aren’t overwhelmed by lack of tools. They’re overwhelmed by fragmented workflows, constant context switching, and decision fatigue. AI must reduce cognitive load, not add to it.Presence Drives Performance: When AI handles capture and synthesis, leaders show up calmer, more prepared, and more focused. Productivity improves — but performance and clarity are the real unlock.The Identity Threat of AI: Many executives privately fear incompetence. They don’t want to look behind or uninformed. That hesitation often shows up as skepticism or avoidance.Decision Velocity Is the New Differentiator: Artificial organizations move faster because they reduce decision latency. Meetings become focused. Context is pre-loaded. Choices are made with confidence.Traits + Tasks + Tools (T3 Model): Start with how you naturally work best. Then amplify your highest-leverage tasks with the right tools.Capture, Transcribe, Synthesize, Act: A simple workflow that turns every conversation into a reusable data asset. This loop compounds judgment and accelerates learning over time.Episode Highlights00:00 – Episode RecapBarry explains why AI used purely for productivity fails — and why the real advantage comes from transforming how leaders make decisions.02:58 – Guest Introduction: Sham ColegadoBarry welcomes Sham Colegado, a key member of the Artificial Organizations team, who interviews Barry about the book and its core ideas.03:32 – “Executives Don’t Want More AI Tools”Barry shares the personal burnout moment that sparked a shift from productivity chasing to rethinking how he works.06:02 – AI’s Real Promise: Presence Over ProductivityWhy performance and clarity matter more than output — and how AI can make leaders calmer and more focused.09:30 – The Identity Threat of AIExecutives reveal a hidden fear of incompetence and why one-on-one learning environments matter.12:26 – Decision Velocity & Decision AdvantageThe two engines of artificial organizations and how reducing decision latency compounds competitive advantage.15:15 – The Traits, Tasks, Tools FlywheelHow aligning natural strengths with high-leverage work determines which AI tools actually create impact.19:01 – What the Best AI Adopters Do DifferentlyCuriosity, experimentation, and comfort with discomfort separate leaders who accelerate from those who stall.22:46 – The First Workflow to BuildCapture → Transcribe → Synthesize → Act — a simple loop that transforms meetings into strategic assets.26:05 – The Executive of the FutureThe most valuable leaders won’t rely on instinct alone — they’ll pair judgment with machine intelligence to make better decisions faster.Useful ResourcesArtificial Organizations (Book) – https://artificialorganizations.comBarry O’Reilly – https://barryoreilly.comFollow the HostLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barryoreillyPersonal site: https://barryoreilly.comFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/barryoreillyauthor/Twitter (X): https://x.com/barryoreillyInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/barryoreilly/
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Unlearning Perfectionism While Building Products That Last with Gerry Khouri
Feb 400:43:50Tap to summarizeWhat if success isn’t about scaling faster, shipping more, or chasing perfection — but about building something so honest it can last for generations?In this episode, I sit down with Gerry Khouri, Founder & Managing Director of Bufori, one of the world’s longest-running handcrafted automobile companies. For nearly 40 years, Gerry has gone against almost every rule of modern business — choosing craftsmanship over scale, long-term thinking over short-term returns, and integrity over imitation.We explore what Gerry had to unlearn to stay in the game for decades: the myth of perfection, the pressure of shareholder expectations, and the idea that success must look a certain way. This conversation is a masterclass in leadership, product thinking, and building businesses that endure.Key TakeawaysPerfection is a fantasy — luxury is honesty. Products that last are built on integrity, not impossible standards.Success starts with finishing, not selling. The real win is building something real — everything else is a bonus.Craftsmanship scales through capability, not volume. Deep skills create optionality and diversification.The real competition isn’t the market — it’s yourself. Long-term builders focus on self-mastery, not rivals.Great businesses are built by people who challenge you, not agree with you.Additional InsightsGerry built his first car in a garage behind his house — bigger than the house itself — with no external funding.Bufori operates debt-free after nearly 40 years, an extreme outlier in modern manufacturing.The company makes more parts in-house than most car manufacturers, turning necessity into innovation.What started as survival-driven resourcefulness became multiple profit centers through engineering services.Leadership longevity comes from unlearning ego, listening deeply, and leading by example.Episode Highlights00:00 – Episode RecapGerry Khouri reflects on a pivotal realization: perfection doesn’t build lasting products — honesty, craftsmanship, and long-term thinking do. This mindset reshaped how he built cars, teams, and a business designed to outlive him.02:15 – Guest Introduction: Gerry KhouriBarry introduces Gerry Khouri, founder of Bufori, a handcrafted automobile company that has spent nearly four decades defying the rules of modern manufacturing.04:14 – Building the First Car Against All OddsGerry shares how a backyard hobby, relentless passion, and going against everyone’s advice led him to build his first car from nothing.07:10 – Redefining What Success Really MeansSuccess wasn’t about money or validation — it was about starting something and finishing it, no matter the odds.11:54 – Leading Without ResourcesWith no books, no mentors, and no capital, Gerry explains how necessity forced invention and deep mastery of craft.19:50 – Unlearning Perfectionism in a Luxury BusinessWhy perfection is an illusion, and how focusing on luxury, durability, and intention keeps products moving forward.23:12 – What Craftsmanship Actually Looks LikeGerry breaks down what it means to truly “make” a product — from designing for repairability to building for generations.27:29 – Competing With Yourself, Not the MarketThe most dangerous competitor isn’t another company — it’s complacency and losing the hunger to improve.31:10 – Unlearning Shareholder-First ThinkingWhy prioritizing short-term financial returns can destroy long-term craftsmanship and culture.35:07 – Turning Internal Capabilities Into New BusinessesHow Bufori transformed hard-earned internal skills into diversified engineering services.38:10 – Advice for Founders Scaling Passion ProjectsDream big, be honest with yourself, ignore the noise — and don’t fear hard work or criticism.42:54 – Building Teams That Challenge YouWhy great leaders surround themselves with people who tell them what they need to hear, not what they want to hear.FAQsWhat does it mean to unlearn perfectionism in product building?Unlearning perfectionism means letting go of the belief that products must be flawless before they can be shipped. In this episode, Gerry Khouri explains why progress, honesty, and durability matter more than chasing an impossible standard of perfection.How do you build products that last for decades?Gerry shares that long-lasting products are built through craftsmanship, attention to detail, and designing for repairability and longevity — not speed, shortcuts, or mass production.Who is Gerry Khouri and why is he notable?Gerry Khouri is the founder of Bufori, a handcrafted automobile company that has operated for nearly 40 years. He’s known for building bespoke luxury cars by hand and for leading a debt-free business focused on long-term value.Is perfectionism bad for startups and founders?Perfectionism can become a liability when it slows decision-making, delays launches, or prevents learning. Gerry explains how redefining excellence allowed him to keep building while maintaining extremely high standards.What does long-term thinking in business actually look like?Long-term thinking means designing products, teams, and systems to endure — focusing on durability, skills, culture, and customer trust rather than quarterly results or fast exits.Useful ResourcesGerry Khouri on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerry-khouri-08507788/ Bufori Motor Cars Website - https://bufori.com/ Follow the HostBarry O’ReillyLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barryoreillyWebsite: https://barryoreilly.comTwitter (X): https://x.com/barryoreillyInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/barryoreilly/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/barryoreillyauthor/
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AI Productivity for Executives: Skyscanner CTO Andrew Phillips
Jan 2100:47:11Tap to summarizeFrom graduate engineer to CTO, Andrew Phillips’ 16-year journey at Skyscanner is a story of continuous reinvention. He didn’t chase titles—he chased growth, deliberately stepping out of his comfort zone and unlearning the habits that no longer served him. What’s kept him at the company for over a decade isn’t status, but challenge: new teams, unfamiliar problems, and the chance to stay close to the work, even as his scope of leadership expanded.In this episode, we explore how Andrew is now applying that same mindset to leading in the AI era—personally and professionally. He shares how he’s built a personal AI stack to stay more present, how Skyscanner is blurring traditional team roles to unlock speed, and why “directed autonomy” is more important than ever. For leaders navigating scale, technology, and the desire to make meaningful impact without burning out, Andrew offers a powerful perspective.Key TakeawaysGrowth through discomfort: Andrew’s biggest accelerations came from switching roles and leaving his comfort zone—not climbing a predefined ladder.AI as a leadership enabler: He uses AI tools to be more present, thoughtful, and effective—especially during high-stakes meetings.From feature factory to outcome focus: Leaders must reconnect people to impact, not just output.Directed autonomy: Empowering teams with AI means giving clear goals—not micromanaging the execution.Unlearning process overreach: Traditional roles, ticketing systems, and rigid handoffs are ripe for reinvention in AI-native organizations.Additional InsightsThe personal AI stack Andrew uses includes ChatGPT, Otter, Cursor, and SpecKit—enabling him to ideate on walks, build apps during board meetings, and maintain strategic presence.Skyscanner’s senior engineers are back coding, using AI to close the gap between architectural thinking and execution.AI-driven productivity unlocks don’t just mean faster work—they mean better work-life balance, deeper engagement, and more human leadership.Episode Highlights00:00 – Episode RecapAndrew Phillips shares how stepping into uncertainty—and building his own AI stack—transformed his leadership at Skyscanner. From personal growth to organizational reinvention, he’s leading the charge on what modern technology leadership looks like.01:35 – Guest Introduction: Andrew PhillipsBarry introduces Andrew Phillips, CTO of Skyscanner, reflecting on their 15-year relationship and Andrew’s rise from graduate engineer to technology leader.05:45 – The One Trick Pony MomentAndrew recalls the pivotal moment when a CEO challenged him to move teams and stop playing it safe—triggering his real leadership evolution.12:33 – Starting with Yourself in AIBefore transforming your company with AI, Andrew urges leaders to start by experimenting personally and learning from the ground up.15:15 – Writing Better Prompts, Building Better SpecsAI tools thrive on clear direction. Andrew realized that better prompting and crisp product requirements accelerated his results dramatically.20:01 – Directed Autonomy in the AI EraGiving AI tools (and people) the “why” rather than micromanaging the “how” builds trust, speed, and better outcomes.24:56 – Parallel Productivity and Boardroom AppsHow Andrew built an entire app—during a board meeting—by offloading work to AI and staying fully present in the room.27:13 – Reclaiming Work-Life BalanceAI allows Andrew to unload his mental backlog—using voice notes and assistants so he can be more present at home.31:21 – Avoiding the AI Cost TrapNot every solution needs an LLM. Andrew shares how Skyscanner balances innovation with cost and pragmatism.36:58 – Blurring the Lines Between RolesDesigners writing code, engineers making design tweaks—Andrew explains why role flexibility is a hallmark of high-performing, AI-native teams.42:32 – Unlearning the Process FetishIt’s time to rethink JIRA tickets, handoffs, and audits. In a machine-collaborative world, many processes should be automated or eliminated.43:36 – The CTO’s Excitement for the Next QuarterAndrew sees a future where everyone—from architects to senior ICs—is back building again, connected to outcomes, not just output.46:36 – Closing ReflectionsLeadership is about presence, purpose, and people. Andrew shares his optimism for what’s possible when teams are empowered to ship and grow.FAQsQ1. How is Skyscanner using AI internally?Teams are using tools like Cursor, ChatGPT, and SpecKit to prototype faster, write code, and automate workflows—blurring traditional role boundaries.Q2. What is “directed autonomy” and why does it matter?Directed autonomy means giving teams (and AI) clear goals and guardrails while allowing freedom in how outcomes are achieved. It increases speed, trust, and creativity.Q3. What does Andrew mean by “blurring the lines between roles”?At Skyscanner, designers are fixing front-end issues, engineers are influencing product direction, and architects are coding again—enabled by AI tools that lower technical barriers.Q4. What AI tools does Andrew personally use?Andrew’s AI stack includes ChatGPT, Cursor, SpecKit, and Otter—used for building apps, drafting comms, and capturing ideas while on the move.Q5. How does AI help leaders stay present?By offloading execution to AI (like building apps during meetings or drafting emails from voice notes), leaders can stay focused in key moments and reduce context switching.Useful ResourcesSkyscannerCursor – AI pair programming toolOtter.ai – Voice transcription and meeting notesBarry O’Reilly’s AI Executive CoachingFollow the HostLinkedInPersonal siteFacebookX (Twitter)Instagram
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How Is Visual Intelligence Redefining Human-AI Interaction with Sherry Chang
Jan 1400:35:44Tap to summarizeWhat if machines could truly see and understand how we move? In this episode, I sit down with Sherry Shang, CEO and co-founder of Neural Lab, a company reimagining how we interact with technology through visual intelligence AI and gesture-based interfaces. Sherry’s journey from Intel technologist to startup founder began with a pivotal moment during the pandemic. What started as a side project in her living room became Neural Lab—a platform that turns basic webcams into powerful tools for gesture recognition, with no specialized hardware required.Now, Neural Lab is unlocking new ways to deliver care, boost performance, and support human potential. From sterile surgery rooms to personalized rehab and coaching, touchless interaction is creating fresh possibilities for how we live and work with AI.Key TakeawaysComputer vision is gaining eyes: Sherry frames visual intelligence as the “missing sense” in AI—complementing language models with sight.Entrepreneurship is about timing: Sherry waited until her kids were older to build Neural Lab, choosing to innovate on her own terms.Gesture recognition is real—and ready: Neural Lab’s technology translates hand motions into universal commands with no need for specialized hardware.Human-centered design is essential: From recognizing intentional gestures to modeling real-world physicality, their design is inspired by how humans naturally interact.Healthcare leads the way: Use cases like sterile surgical environments are proving to be strong early markets for gesture control.Additional InsightsVisual intelligence is the missing sense in AI: Sherry describes computer vision as adding "eyes" to AI, enabling machines to interpret physical space just as large language models allow them to process language.Entrepreneurship is about timing: Sherry chose to start Neural Lab once her children were older, aligning her professional ambitions with personal priorities.Gesture recognition is real—and ready: Their product works with any basic camera and translates 15 customizable gestures into commands for existing applications—no new hardware required.Designing for human nuance matters: Neural Lab focuses on distinguishing intentional from unintentional gestures using cues like eye gaze and body motion—mimicking how humans communicate.Healthcare is an urgent use case: Environments like surgery rooms benefit immediately from touchless interaction, helping maintain sterility and reduce unnecessary patient radiation.The interface is evolving beyond the mouse: Sherry sees gesture-based interaction as a more natural, immersive input method—moving us beyond traditional tools like keyboards and mice.Customer feedback drives innovation: From live demos to direct use-case discovery, Neural Lab adapts based on what real users need and how they react in context.AI can coach, not just compute: Sherry envisions AI-enabled coaching in sports, physical therapy, and even surgery—delivering expert guidance in real time, at scale.Episode Highlights00:00 – Episode RecapSherry Chang shares how her journey from Intel technologist to founder of Neural Lab began with a desire to create immersive, meaningful technology—and a pivotal moment during the pandemic when gesture-based interaction suddenly became essential.02:14 – Guest Introduction: Sherry ChangBarry introduces Sherry Chang, CEO of Neural Lab, former Intel leader, and innovator in computer vision and immersive interaction.06:27 – Starting Up During the PandemicSherry shares how the idea for Neural Lab came to life in her living room, driven by a vision for safer, touchless human-computer interaction.09:30 – From Prototype to Minority ReportBarry recalls early demos that felt like science fiction—using just a webcam to control computers with hand gestures.12:00 – Designing for IntentionalitySherry explains the challenge of recognizing intentional vs. accidental gestures—and how eye-gaze and motion patterns help filter noise.14:57 – Gesture as Input DeviceThey discuss how gestures open new interaction possibilities—from whiteboards to evaluating athletic movements.18:26 – Finding Product-Market Fit in HealthcareSherry shares insights from radiology conferences—surgeons see immediate value in touchless interfaces for sterile environments.22:21 – Reimagining Clinical WorkflowsGesture-based interaction eliminates the need for voice commands or assistants in the OR—streamlining workflow and reducing risks.25:35 – The Bigger PictureBarry reflects on the paradigm shift—freeing people from fixed tools like keyboards to interact with tech naturally.28:56 – Unlocking Human Potential with AI CoachingSherry envisions AI coaches for physical therapy, sports, even surgery—democratizing access to expert feedback and improving outcomes.33:11 – The AI Augmentation MindsetRather than replacing jobs, gesture-based AI enhances human performance and creativity, enabling new ways of working.35:21 – Closing ReflectionsBarry highlights the promise of technologies like Neural Lab—empowering people to interact more intuitively with machines and unlock new capabilities.FAQsQ1. What is gesture recognition technology?Gesture recognition uses computer vision to detect and interpret human body movements—like hand gestures—as input commands to control software or devices.Q2. How does Neural Lab's gesture control work?Neural Lab’s system uses any standard camera to detect 15 configurable gestures, translating them into commands compatible with most applications—no special hardware needed.Q3. Is gesture recognition practical in healthcare?Yes. Surgeons can use gestures to manipulate images mid-procedure without breaking sterility, improving workflow and reducing radiation exposure.Q4. Can gesture-based AI help in physical therapy?Absolutely. It enables real-time coaching, posture correction, and progress tracking for rehab patients—making at-home therapy more effective.Q5. How is AI augmenting human potential with this tech?By combining visual intelligence with feedback loops, gesture-based AI allows for elite-level coaching and real-time assistance in fields like sports, surgery, and workplace ergonomics.Useful ResourcesNeural Lab Official Site - https://neural-lab.com/Connect with Sherry on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sherryschang/
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