Podcast
Unlearn
Hosted by Barry O'Reilly · EN
The way to think differently is to act differently and get comfortable with being uncomfortable. For business leaders, entrepreneurs, managers and anyone who wants to improve how they work and live: Welcome to the Unlearn Podcast. Host Barry O’Reilly, author of Unlearn and Lean Enterprise seeks to synthesize the superpowers of extraordinary individuals into actionable strategies you can use—to Think BIG, start small and learn fast, and find your edge with excellence.
31episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Frictionless, Artificial Organizations: Measuring What Matters in the Age of AI
Mar 400:33:00Tap to summarizeAI can now generate code in seconds. Deployment pipelines are faster than ever. And yet, many teams still feel slow.In this episode, I sit down with Nicole Forsgren, world-renowned researcher, co-author of Accelerate, and Senior Director of Developer Intelligence at Google. We explore why speed alone doesn’t create performance — and how hidden friction inside systems, culture, and decision-making quietly holds teams back.Nicole breaks down the SPACE framework, explains why activity metrics create blind spots, and challenges leaders to rethink what productivity really means in the era of AI agents. If you're measuring output but still not seeing impact, this conversation will help you recalibrate.Key TakeawaysProductivity is multidimensional, not just output: Measuring activity alone creates blind spots. Real performance includes satisfaction, quality, collaboration, and flow.System constraints determine team speed: Improving individual teams isn’t enough. Performance improves only when bottlenecks across the entire value stream are addressed.AI accelerates existing systems: Automation increases throughput, but it doesn’t remove friction. Weak processes and structural gaps become more visible as speed increases.Trust becomes a performance factor in AI workflows: As agents contribute to development, validation systems, guardrails, and confidence mechanisms become essential.Strategy must come before acceleration: Building the wrong thing faster does not create value. Leaders must define direction before optimizing delivery.Additional InsightsOrganizations scrutinize AI more than human decisions: We often ask whether AI is producing the right output. Yet we rarely question whether human teams are building the right thing either.AI forces leaders to clarify judgment: Working with agents requires teams to make their assumptions explicit by defining heuristics, edge cases, and decision rules that previously lived in intuition.Many bottlenecks are decision bottlenecks: Delays often come from postponed decisions, including security reviews, approvals, and quality checks placed late in the workflow.AI exposes the limits of existing infrastructure: Faster development cycles put pressure on testing systems, CI/CD pipelines, and operational workflows designed for slower environments.Episode Highlights00:00 – Episode RecapEven as AI accelerates development, many teams feel slower than ever — revealing that friction isn’t about code speed but about how systems, culture, and decisions are designed.02:38 – Guest Introduction: Nicole ForsgrenBarry introduces Nicole Forsgren — researcher, co-author of Accelerate, and Senior Director of Developer Intelligence at Google — whose work has redefined how technology performance is measured.07:08 – The SPACE Framework ExplainedNicole breaks down Satisfaction, Performance, Activity, Communication, and Efficiency — a practical guardrail to measure productivity across multiple dimensions.10:19 – Why Optimizing Locally Creates BottlenecksTeams often improve within their own scope, only to worsen constraints elsewhere in the system. Real performance requires zooming out.12:37 – Simple Surveys That Surface Hidden FrictionA few focused questions can quickly reveal productivity barriers — especially when frequency of disruption is measured alongside frustration.15:51 – Culture, Curiosity, and System DesignMost structural problems come from rational past decisions. Approaching friction with curiosity — not blame — creates safety and clarity.18:07 – Moving Decisions UpstreamFrom flaky tests to security reviews, many delays are postponed decisions. The opportunity is shifting confidence-building earlier in the workflow.22:18 – Making Implicit Judgment ExplicitAI agents force leaders to articulate the heuristics and assumptions they previously ran on instinct — improving both human and machine judgment.25:48 – Are Humans Building the Right Thing?We question AI correctness — but rarely apply the same scrutiny to human output. Strategy clarity remains a leadership responsibility.30:01 – AI Amplifies Existing BottlenecksAs agents increase throughput, weaknesses in pipelines, testing, and infrastructure become more visible — and more urgent.32:05 – Removing Friction to Unlock Real PerformanceTrue competitive advantage comes from redesigning systems of work — not just accelerating output.Follow the HostLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barryoreillyPersonal site: https://barryoreilly.comFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/barryoreillyauthor/Twitter/X: https://x.com/barryoreillyInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/barryoreilly/
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Artificial Organizations: Judgment at Speed in the Age of AI
Feb 1800:30:00Tap to summarizeAI isn’t about productivity. It’s about presence.In this special episode, the tables turn and I’m interviewed by Sham Colegado about my new book, Artificial Organizations. We explore why 95% of AI projects fail, why executives don’t want more tools — they want their life back — and how the real competitive edge isn’t automation, but judgment at speed.If you’ve been overwhelmed by the explosion of AI tools or unsure where to start, this episode will help you reframe the conversation. This isn’t about doing more. It’s about deciding better — faster, with clarity and confidence — by combining human instinct with machine intelligence.Key TakeawaysAI Used Only for Productivity Fails: When AI is treated as a cost-cutting tool instead of a transformation system, it rarely creates lasting value.Presence Is the Real Advantage: The goal isn’t more output. It’s showing up calmer, clearer, and better prepared — so decisions improve.Decision Velocity + Decision Advantage Wins: Make decisions faster and with better information. Speed without clarity is noise. Clarity without speed is stagnation.The Future Belongs to Human + Machine Judgment: Executives who combine instinct with machine intelligence will outperform those relying on either alone.Additional InsightsExecutives Don’t Want More Tools — They Want Their Life Back: Leaders aren’t overwhelmed by lack of tools. They’re overwhelmed by fragmented workflows, constant context switching, and decision fatigue. AI must reduce cognitive load, not add to it.Presence Drives Performance: When AI handles capture and synthesis, leaders show up calmer, more prepared, and more focused. Productivity improves — but performance and clarity are the real unlock.The Identity Threat of AI: Many executives privately fear incompetence. They don’t want to look behind or uninformed. That hesitation often shows up as skepticism or avoidance.Decision Velocity Is the New Differentiator: Artificial organizations move faster because they reduce decision latency. Meetings become focused. Context is pre-loaded. Choices are made with confidence.Traits + Tasks + Tools (T3 Model): Start with how you naturally work best. Then amplify your highest-leverage tasks with the right tools.Capture, Transcribe, Synthesize, Act: A simple workflow that turns every conversation into a reusable data asset. This loop compounds judgment and accelerates learning over time.Episode Highlights00:00 – Episode RecapBarry explains why AI used purely for productivity fails — and why the real advantage comes from transforming how leaders make decisions.02:58 – Guest Introduction: Sham ColegadoBarry welcomes Sham Colegado, a key member of the Artificial Organizations team, who interviews Barry about the book and its core ideas.03:32 – “Executives Don’t Want More AI Tools”Barry shares the personal burnout moment that sparked a shift from productivity chasing to rethinking how he works.06:02 – AI’s Real Promise: Presence Over ProductivityWhy performance and clarity matter more than output — and how AI can make leaders calmer and more focused.09:30 – The Identity Threat of AIExecutives reveal a hidden fear of incompetence and why one-on-one learning environments matter.12:26 – Decision Velocity & Decision AdvantageThe two engines of artificial organizations and how reducing decision latency compounds competitive advantage.15:15 – The Traits, Tasks, Tools FlywheelHow aligning natural strengths with high-leverage work determines which AI tools actually create impact.19:01 – What the Best AI Adopters Do DifferentlyCuriosity, experimentation, and comfort with discomfort separate leaders who accelerate from those who stall.22:46 – The First Workflow to BuildCapture → Transcribe → Synthesize → Act — a simple loop that transforms meetings into strategic assets.26:05 – The Executive of the FutureThe most valuable leaders won’t rely on instinct alone — they’ll pair judgment with machine intelligence to make better decisions faster.Useful ResourcesArtificial Organizations (Book) – https://artificialorganizations.comBarry O’Reilly – https://barryoreilly.comFollow the HostLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barryoreillyPersonal site: https://barryoreilly.comFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/barryoreillyauthor/Twitter (X): https://x.com/barryoreillyInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/barryoreilly/
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Unlearning Perfectionism While Building Products That Last with Gerry Khouri
Feb 400:43:50Tap to summarizeWhat if success isn’t about scaling faster, shipping more, or chasing perfection — but about building something so honest it can last for generations?In this episode, I sit down with Gerry Khouri, Founder & Managing Director of Bufori, one of the world’s longest-running handcrafted automobile companies. For nearly 40 years, Gerry has gone against almost every rule of modern business — choosing craftsmanship over scale, long-term thinking over short-term returns, and integrity over imitation.We explore what Gerry had to unlearn to stay in the game for decades: the myth of perfection, the pressure of shareholder expectations, and the idea that success must look a certain way. This conversation is a masterclass in leadership, product thinking, and building businesses that endure.Key TakeawaysPerfection is a fantasy — luxury is honesty. Products that last are built on integrity, not impossible standards.Success starts with finishing, not selling. The real win is building something real — everything else is a bonus.Craftsmanship scales through capability, not volume. Deep skills create optionality and diversification.The real competition isn’t the market — it’s yourself. Long-term builders focus on self-mastery, not rivals.Great businesses are built by people who challenge you, not agree with you.Additional InsightsGerry built his first car in a garage behind his house — bigger than the house itself — with no external funding.Bufori operates debt-free after nearly 40 years, an extreme outlier in modern manufacturing.The company makes more parts in-house than most car manufacturers, turning necessity into innovation.What started as survival-driven resourcefulness became multiple profit centers through engineering services.Leadership longevity comes from unlearning ego, listening deeply, and leading by example.Episode Highlights00:00 – Episode RecapGerry Khouri reflects on a pivotal realization: perfection doesn’t build lasting products — honesty, craftsmanship, and long-term thinking do. This mindset reshaped how he built cars, teams, and a business designed to outlive him.02:15 – Guest Introduction: Gerry KhouriBarry introduces Gerry Khouri, founder of Bufori, a handcrafted automobile company that has spent nearly four decades defying the rules of modern manufacturing.04:14 – Building the First Car Against All OddsGerry shares how a backyard hobby, relentless passion, and going against everyone’s advice led him to build his first car from nothing.07:10 – Redefining What Success Really MeansSuccess wasn’t about money or validation — it was about starting something and finishing it, no matter the odds.11:54 – Leading Without ResourcesWith no books, no mentors, and no capital, Gerry explains how necessity forced invention and deep mastery of craft.19:50 – Unlearning Perfectionism in a Luxury BusinessWhy perfection is an illusion, and how focusing on luxury, durability, and intention keeps products moving forward.23:12 – What Craftsmanship Actually Looks LikeGerry breaks down what it means to truly “make” a product — from designing for repairability to building for generations.27:29 – Competing With Yourself, Not the MarketThe most dangerous competitor isn’t another company — it’s complacency and losing the hunger to improve.31:10 – Unlearning Shareholder-First ThinkingWhy prioritizing short-term financial returns can destroy long-term craftsmanship and culture.35:07 – Turning Internal Capabilities Into New BusinessesHow Bufori transformed hard-earned internal skills into diversified engineering services.38:10 – Advice for Founders Scaling Passion ProjectsDream big, be honest with yourself, ignore the noise — and don’t fear hard work or criticism.42:54 – Building Teams That Challenge YouWhy great leaders surround themselves with people who tell them what they need to hear, not what they want to hear.FAQsWhat does it mean to unlearn perfectionism in product building?Unlearning perfectionism means letting go of the belief that products must be flawless before they can be shipped. In this episode, Gerry Khouri explains why progress, honesty, and durability matter more than chasing an impossible standard of perfection.How do you build products that last for decades?Gerry shares that long-lasting products are built through craftsmanship, attention to detail, and designing for repairability and longevity — not speed, shortcuts, or mass production.Who is Gerry Khouri and why is he notable?Gerry Khouri is the founder of Bufori, a handcrafted automobile company that has operated for nearly 40 years. He’s known for building bespoke luxury cars by hand and for leading a debt-free business focused on long-term value.Is perfectionism bad for startups and founders?Perfectionism can become a liability when it slows decision-making, delays launches, or prevents learning. Gerry explains how redefining excellence allowed him to keep building while maintaining extremely high standards.What does long-term thinking in business actually look like?Long-term thinking means designing products, teams, and systems to endure — focusing on durability, skills, culture, and customer trust rather than quarterly results or fast exits.Useful ResourcesGerry Khouri on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerry-khouri-08507788/ Bufori Motor Cars Website - https://bufori.com/ Follow the HostBarry O’ReillyLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barryoreillyWebsite: https://barryoreilly.comTwitter (X): https://x.com/barryoreillyInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/barryoreilly/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/barryoreillyauthor/
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AI Productivity for Executives: Skyscanner CTO Andrew Phillips
Jan 2100:47:11Tap to summarizeFrom graduate engineer to CTO, Andrew Phillips’ 16-year journey at Skyscanner is a story of continuous reinvention. He didn’t chase titles—he chased growth, deliberately stepping out of his comfort zone and unlearning the habits that no longer served him. What’s kept him at the company for over a decade isn’t status, but challenge: new teams, unfamiliar problems, and the chance to stay close to the work, even as his scope of leadership expanded.In this episode, we explore how Andrew is now applying that same mindset to leading in the AI era—personally and professionally. He shares how he’s built a personal AI stack to stay more present, how Skyscanner is blurring traditional team roles to unlock speed, and why “directed autonomy” is more important than ever. For leaders navigating scale, technology, and the desire to make meaningful impact without burning out, Andrew offers a powerful perspective.Key TakeawaysGrowth through discomfort: Andrew’s biggest accelerations came from switching roles and leaving his comfort zone—not climbing a predefined ladder.AI as a leadership enabler: He uses AI tools to be more present, thoughtful, and effective—especially during high-stakes meetings.From feature factory to outcome focus: Leaders must reconnect people to impact, not just output.Directed autonomy: Empowering teams with AI means giving clear goals—not micromanaging the execution.Unlearning process overreach: Traditional roles, ticketing systems, and rigid handoffs are ripe for reinvention in AI-native organizations.Additional InsightsThe personal AI stack Andrew uses includes ChatGPT, Otter, Cursor, and SpecKit—enabling him to ideate on walks, build apps during board meetings, and maintain strategic presence.Skyscanner’s senior engineers are back coding, using AI to close the gap between architectural thinking and execution.AI-driven productivity unlocks don’t just mean faster work—they mean better work-life balance, deeper engagement, and more human leadership.Episode Highlights00:00 – Episode RecapAndrew Phillips shares how stepping into uncertainty—and building his own AI stack—transformed his leadership at Skyscanner. From personal growth to organizational reinvention, he’s leading the charge on what modern technology leadership looks like.01:35 – Guest Introduction: Andrew PhillipsBarry introduces Andrew Phillips, CTO of Skyscanner, reflecting on their 15-year relationship and Andrew’s rise from graduate engineer to technology leader.05:45 – The One Trick Pony MomentAndrew recalls the pivotal moment when a CEO challenged him to move teams and stop playing it safe—triggering his real leadership evolution.12:33 – Starting with Yourself in AIBefore transforming your company with AI, Andrew urges leaders to start by experimenting personally and learning from the ground up.15:15 – Writing Better Prompts, Building Better SpecsAI tools thrive on clear direction. Andrew realized that better prompting and crisp product requirements accelerated his results dramatically.20:01 – Directed Autonomy in the AI EraGiving AI tools (and people) the “why” rather than micromanaging the “how” builds trust, speed, and better outcomes.24:56 – Parallel Productivity and Boardroom AppsHow Andrew built an entire app—during a board meeting—by offloading work to AI and staying fully present in the room.27:13 – Reclaiming Work-Life BalanceAI allows Andrew to unload his mental backlog—using voice notes and assistants so he can be more present at home.31:21 – Avoiding the AI Cost TrapNot every solution needs an LLM. Andrew shares how Skyscanner balances innovation with cost and pragmatism.36:58 – Blurring the Lines Between RolesDesigners writing code, engineers making design tweaks—Andrew explains why role flexibility is a hallmark of high-performing, AI-native teams.42:32 – Unlearning the Process FetishIt’s time to rethink JIRA tickets, handoffs, and audits. In a machine-collaborative world, many processes should be automated or eliminated.43:36 – The CTO’s Excitement for the Next QuarterAndrew sees a future where everyone—from architects to senior ICs—is back building again, connected to outcomes, not just output.46:36 – Closing ReflectionsLeadership is about presence, purpose, and people. Andrew shares his optimism for what’s possible when teams are empowered to ship and grow.FAQsQ1. How is Skyscanner using AI internally?Teams are using tools like Cursor, ChatGPT, and SpecKit to prototype faster, write code, and automate workflows—blurring traditional role boundaries.Q2. What is “directed autonomy” and why does it matter?Directed autonomy means giving teams (and AI) clear goals and guardrails while allowing freedom in how outcomes are achieved. It increases speed, trust, and creativity.Q3. What does Andrew mean by “blurring the lines between roles”?At Skyscanner, designers are fixing front-end issues, engineers are influencing product direction, and architects are coding again—enabled by AI tools that lower technical barriers.Q4. What AI tools does Andrew personally use?Andrew’s AI stack includes ChatGPT, Cursor, SpecKit, and Otter—used for building apps, drafting comms, and capturing ideas while on the move.Q5. How does AI help leaders stay present?By offloading execution to AI (like building apps during meetings or drafting emails from voice notes), leaders can stay focused in key moments and reduce context switching.Useful ResourcesSkyscannerCursor – AI pair programming toolOtter.ai – Voice transcription and meeting notesBarry O’Reilly’s AI Executive CoachingFollow the HostLinkedInPersonal siteFacebookX (Twitter)Instagram
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How Is Visual Intelligence Redefining Human-AI Interaction with Sherry Chang
Jan 1400:35:44Tap to summarizeWhat if machines could truly see and understand how we move? In this episode, I sit down with Sherry Shang, CEO and co-founder of Neural Lab, a company reimagining how we interact with technology through visual intelligence AI and gesture-based interfaces. Sherry’s journey from Intel technologist to startup founder began with a pivotal moment during the pandemic. What started as a side project in her living room became Neural Lab—a platform that turns basic webcams into powerful tools for gesture recognition, with no specialized hardware required.Now, Neural Lab is unlocking new ways to deliver care, boost performance, and support human potential. From sterile surgery rooms to personalized rehab and coaching, touchless interaction is creating fresh possibilities for how we live and work with AI.Key TakeawaysComputer vision is gaining eyes: Sherry frames visual intelligence as the “missing sense” in AI—complementing language models with sight.Entrepreneurship is about timing: Sherry waited until her kids were older to build Neural Lab, choosing to innovate on her own terms.Gesture recognition is real—and ready: Neural Lab’s technology translates hand motions into universal commands with no need for specialized hardware.Human-centered design is essential: From recognizing intentional gestures to modeling real-world physicality, their design is inspired by how humans naturally interact.Healthcare leads the way: Use cases like sterile surgical environments are proving to be strong early markets for gesture control.Additional InsightsVisual intelligence is the missing sense in AI: Sherry describes computer vision as adding "eyes" to AI, enabling machines to interpret physical space just as large language models allow them to process language.Entrepreneurship is about timing: Sherry chose to start Neural Lab once her children were older, aligning her professional ambitions with personal priorities.Gesture recognition is real—and ready: Their product works with any basic camera and translates 15 customizable gestures into commands for existing applications—no new hardware required.Designing for human nuance matters: Neural Lab focuses on distinguishing intentional from unintentional gestures using cues like eye gaze and body motion—mimicking how humans communicate.Healthcare is an urgent use case: Environments like surgery rooms benefit immediately from touchless interaction, helping maintain sterility and reduce unnecessary patient radiation.The interface is evolving beyond the mouse: Sherry sees gesture-based interaction as a more natural, immersive input method—moving us beyond traditional tools like keyboards and mice.Customer feedback drives innovation: From live demos to direct use-case discovery, Neural Lab adapts based on what real users need and how they react in context.AI can coach, not just compute: Sherry envisions AI-enabled coaching in sports, physical therapy, and even surgery—delivering expert guidance in real time, at scale.Episode Highlights00:00 – Episode RecapSherry Chang shares how her journey from Intel technologist to founder of Neural Lab began with a desire to create immersive, meaningful technology—and a pivotal moment during the pandemic when gesture-based interaction suddenly became essential.02:14 – Guest Introduction: Sherry ChangBarry introduces Sherry Chang, CEO of Neural Lab, former Intel leader, and innovator in computer vision and immersive interaction.06:27 – Starting Up During the PandemicSherry shares how the idea for Neural Lab came to life in her living room, driven by a vision for safer, touchless human-computer interaction.09:30 – From Prototype to Minority ReportBarry recalls early demos that felt like science fiction—using just a webcam to control computers with hand gestures.12:00 – Designing for IntentionalitySherry explains the challenge of recognizing intentional vs. accidental gestures—and how eye-gaze and motion patterns help filter noise.14:57 – Gesture as Input DeviceThey discuss how gestures open new interaction possibilities—from whiteboards to evaluating athletic movements.18:26 – Finding Product-Market Fit in HealthcareSherry shares insights from radiology conferences—surgeons see immediate value in touchless interfaces for sterile environments.22:21 – Reimagining Clinical WorkflowsGesture-based interaction eliminates the need for voice commands or assistants in the OR—streamlining workflow and reducing risks.25:35 – The Bigger PictureBarry reflects on the paradigm shift—freeing people from fixed tools like keyboards to interact with tech naturally.28:56 – Unlocking Human Potential with AI CoachingSherry envisions AI coaches for physical therapy, sports, even surgery—democratizing access to expert feedback and improving outcomes.33:11 – The AI Augmentation MindsetRather than replacing jobs, gesture-based AI enhances human performance and creativity, enabling new ways of working.35:21 – Closing ReflectionsBarry highlights the promise of technologies like Neural Lab—empowering people to interact more intuitively with machines and unlock new capabilities.FAQsQ1. What is gesture recognition technology?Gesture recognition uses computer vision to detect and interpret human body movements—like hand gestures—as input commands to control software or devices.Q2. How does Neural Lab's gesture control work?Neural Lab’s system uses any standard camera to detect 15 configurable gestures, translating them into commands compatible with most applications—no special hardware needed.Q3. Is gesture recognition practical in healthcare?Yes. Surgeons can use gestures to manipulate images mid-procedure without breaking sterility, improving workflow and reducing radiation exposure.Q4. Can gesture-based AI help in physical therapy?Absolutely. It enables real-time coaching, posture correction, and progress tracking for rehab patients—making at-home therapy more effective.Q5. How is AI augmenting human potential with this tech?By combining visual intelligence with feedback loops, gesture-based AI allows for elite-level coaching and real-time assistance in fields like sports, surgery, and workplace ergonomics.Useful ResourcesNeural Lab Official Site - https://neural-lab.com/Connect with Sherry on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sherryschang/
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Investing In Space with Maureen Haverty
Dec 3000:40:15Tap to summarizeToday’s guest is someone I first came across on the Irish People in VC list—and I’m really glad I reached out. Because it turns out Maureen Haverty has one of the most fascinating jobs you can imagine: helping build the future of space. As a Principal at Seraphim Space, the world’s leading space-focused VC firm, she invests globally in technologies pushing the boundaries of what’s possible —and shaping the future of space startup investment.Maureen began her career in nuclear engineering, earning a PhD from the University of Manchester before making the leap into startups. At Apollo Fusion, she survived a hard pivot into space, ultimately becoming COO and steering the company through a $150M acquisition by Astra. That experience—what she calls a startup “baptism by fire”—now informs how she backs early-stage founders as both investor and board director. Her insights have been featured in The Times, and she’ll soon take the stage at Web Summit to speak on “Space as a Strategic Frontier.”Key Takeaways“Build just enough”: Space startups win by testing early and often, not waiting for perfection.Kill fewer dreams: Rigor matters—but so does nurturing half-formed ideas.Get to space ASAP: In-orbit validation creates trust and unlocks massive growth.From Gantt charts to fast loops: High-performing teams test weekly, not quarterly.Customer conversations still matter: Even in space, talking to users beats assumptions.Additional InsightsWhy VC funding in space is shifting toward earlier MVPs.The hidden costs of acquisition for startup culture and speed.How Starship may reshape what's possible—size, cost, and assembly in orbit.The role of government contracts in fostering a competitive space ecosystem.Episode Highlights00:00 – Episode RecapMaureen Haverty shares how balancing rigor with creativity helped her evolve from nuclear engineer to space startup COO to VC. The key? Learning when to test, when to build, and when to let wild ideas breathe.01:35 – Guest Introduction: Maureen HavertyBarry introduces Maureen Haverty, Principal at Seraphim Space and advocate for grounded rigor in an industry literally aiming for the stars.03:35 – Learning When Not to Kill IdeasMaureen reflects on being labeled a “dream killer” and how she transformed that mindset to foster innovation with constructive rigor.07:34 – Applying Rigor Without Stifling InnovationHow Apollo used just-enough testing, internal prototyping, and diverse team strengths to build better, faster.13:54 – Rethinking MVPs in Space StartupsWhy even space companies now push to generate early revenue and test hardware pre-launch.18:19 – Customers Want Something They Can SeeBuilding a physical, testable product—even a crude one—outperforms pitch decks every time.20:32 – The $70M Lesson of In-Space TestingHow one flight test flipped customer hesitation into a flood of contracts.26:12 – Surviving the Shift from Prototype to ProductionThe real scaling challenge: maintaining culture and customer trust while redesigning for scale.30:15 – The Hidden Power of Primes and PolicyWhy space remains deeply shaped by government buyers—and how that’s changing with new VC-backed players.35:33 – Starship and the Future of SpaceMaureen shares what could shift when larger payloads, faster launch cadences, and orbital assembly become possible.39:25 – Closing ReflectionsSpace is finally catching up to the urgency of its people. In an industry where “yesterday” is always the best time to start, speed is the differentiator.FAQsWhat is Maureen Haverty known for?Maureen Haverty is a Principal at Seraphim Space, the world’s leading venture capital firm focused on space technology. She’s also known for her leadership at Apollo Fusion, where she helped scale the company to a $150M acquisition by Astra.What does Seraphim Space invest in?Seraphim Space invests in early-stage space technology startups globally, backing innovations in satellites, launch systems, in-orbit services, and deep tech infrastructure critical to the future of space exploration.What did Maureen Haverty learn from her time at Apollo Fusion?Maureen learned the importance of balancing rigor with experimentation. Her experience taught her to support bold ideas without stifling them and to build “just enough” before validating with customers—especially critical in high-stakes industries like space hardware.How do space startups approach product testing and market validation?Unlike SaaS startups, space companies face high costs and long timelines. The most successful ones focus on testing early and often, getting hardware into orbit quickly, and talking to customers well before finalizing product designs.Why is in-space testing so important for space companies?Even with rigorous ground-based testing standards, nothing builds customer confidence like real in-orbit validation. Maureen shares how one space test led to $70M in contracts within weeks—proving that live demonstrations are a major unlock for credibility and growth.What trends are shaping the future of the space industry?Maureen highlights the shift toward faster iteration, more venture-backed growth (vs. acquisition), and the game-changing potential of SpaceX’s Starship, which could enable larger structures, faster launch cycles, and more ambitious projects in orbit.Useful ResourcesMaureen Haverty on LinkedInSeraphim SpaceFollow the HostLinkedInPersonal SiteFacebookX (Twitter)Instagram
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The Octopus Organization with Jana Werner & Phil Le-Brun
Dec 1700:36:54Tap to summarizeBack when I first worked with Jana Werner at Tesco Bank, I saw firsthand how a crisis could be a crucible for innovation and transformation. Her ability to unlock potential in even the most challenged teams was unforgettable. Now, teaming up with Phil Le-Brun—a transformational leader I came to know through his work at McDonald’s—they’ve co-authored The Octopus Organization, a guide for thriving in an age of continuous transformation.In this episode, we go behind the scenes of their book and explore the anti-patterns that hold organizations back, the behaviors leaders must unlearn, and the mindset shifts required to succeed when change never stops. Whether you’re a CEO, change agent, or team lead, you’ll leave with small, actionable experiments to start evolving your organization—today.Key TakeawaysUnlearning blame-based leadership: Shifting focus from fixing people to fixing systems unlocks performance and trust.Spotting anti-patterns in everyday behavior: Habits like jargon, silos, and avoidance subtly block progress.Embracing uncertainty in leadership: Probabilistic thinking builds better decisions and psychological safety.Driving transformation through small experiments: Distributed action outperforms top-down mandates.Leading with curiosity in the age of AI: Execs must actively engage with tech to stay relevant and credible.Additional InsightsBehind the book: Why The Octopus Organization centers on 36 anti-patterns and how they uncovered themReal-world leadership stories: Lessons from Tesco Bank, McDonald’s, Amazon, and FerrariTransformation fatigue is real: Overengineered change efforts often create fear and resistanceAlignment breakdowns in leadership teams: Many transformations fail because leaders aren't truly on the same pageReframing performance: Asking “what did you stop doing” reveals deeper impact than traditional goalsEpisode Highlights00:00 – Episode RecapJana Werner shares how she took over a struggling tech team, discovered their true strengths, and transformed their performance by rebuilding culture and trust. Phil Le-Brun describes the importance of creating a culture of trust in organizations, allowing people to test ideas and make a real difference.02:46 – Guest Introduction: Jana Werner & Phil Le-BrunBarry O'Reilly introduces guests Jana Werner and Phil Le-Brun, describing their collaboration during times of crisis at Tesco Bank, their leadership backgrounds, and their shared vision for adaptive, purpose-driven organizations as captured in their new book.04:36 – Revitalizing a Demotivated Team at Tesco BankJana Werner narrates how she took over a demotivated technology team, overcame her initial preconceptions, and transformed the group into a top-performing unit by changing culture, empowering individuals, and shifting organizational dynamics.07:07 – Lessons from McDonald's: Balancing Centralization and AgilityPhil Le-Brun explains McDonald's transformation journey, the need to unify local and corporate efforts, and the financial impact of building trust and alignment.10:16 – Learning from Industry LeadersPhil recounts interviews with CEOs like Indra Nooyi and Benedetto Vigna, highlighting that true leadership requires humility, storytelling, and ongoing curiosity.14:14 – Unlearning the Need for CertaintyJana Werner discusses shifting away from needing all the answers and embracing uncertainty, drawing on insights from Annie Duke and other leaders.21:30 – Small Changes, Big ImpactJana introduces the book's structure around "anti-patterns" and advocates for making small, distributed changes rather than massive, top-down transformations.26:29 – Leadership Alignment: Avoiding Transformation PitfallsPhil highlights the need for alignment among leadership teams and points out common failures in transformation projects due to lack of shared understanding.29:09 – Becoming "Technology Teenagers"Phil and Jana emphasize the importance of leaders learning to experiment and engage directly with new technologies, encouraging curiosity and hands-on learning with AI.32:12 – Start Small and ExperimentBoth authors encourage listeners to pick a tip from the book and try it right away—emphasizing the value of experimentation, feedback, and removing old practices to spark growth.Useful ResourcesJana Werner on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/janawerner1/ Phil Le-Brun on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/phillebrun/ The Octopus Organization – Book by Jana Werner & Phil Le-Brun - https://www.amazon.com/Octopus-Organization-Thriving-Continuous-Transformation-ebook/dp/B0DRZ2MXBR Related episode: Accelerating Transformation in Crisis – Tesco Bank Case Study - https://barryoreilly.com/explore/articles/accelerating-transformation/ Amy Edmondson – Research on Psychological Safety - https://amycedmondson.com/psychological-safety/ Annie Duke – Thinking in Bets - https://www.annieduke.com/books/ Indra Nooyi – Leadership Insights - https://www.indranooyi.com/ Follow the HostLinkedIn: Barry O’ReillyWebsite: barryoreilly.comTwitter/X: @barryoreillyInstagram: @barryoreillyFacebook: Barry O’Reilly
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What Truly Decisive, Agentic Organizations Are Doing? – Steve Elliott
Dec 300:46:43Tap to summarizeIn this episode of The Unlearn Podcast, Barry O’Reilly is joined by Steve Elliott, a serial entrepreneur, product leader, and investor with two decades of experience advising high-growth companies. Steve is the founder of Dotwork, an AI-driven platform that connects strategy to execution, and co-founder of The Uncertainty Project, a community for product leaders focused on better decision-making.He previously served as Head of Product at Atlassian, where he helped scale Jira Align after selling his company AgileCraft for $166M—earning recognition as a Fortune Best Small Business in America and a finalist for the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year. With five successful exits under his belt, Steve brings rare depth to the art of building and unbuilding what no longer serves.In this conversation, Barry and Steve explore how to design for the messy reality of modern work, the role of unlearning in leadership, and how AI is redefining what it means to be a decisive company.Key TakeawaysFrom CTO to CEO – Why Steve transitioned from tech leader to founder and the personal growth that came with it.Scaling after acquisition – The emotional and strategic shifts required when your startup becomes part of a larger machine.Why strategy execution breaks – Most alignment tools assume order—Steve builds for complexity.Agentic AI in the enterprise – How Dotwork uses knowledge graphs and AI to surface insight in context, not just dashboards.Decisive companies – What it really means to help leaders make faster, more confident decisions.Additional InsightsUnlearning the idea that startups are for the young—Steve didn’t found his first company until his 40s.How Dotwork is building a “context memory engine” for both executives and AI agents.The future of AI-native tools isn’t more interfaces—it’s less friction and smarter context delivery.Why the most valuable enterprise products aren’t flashy—they’re quiet, ambient, and deeply integrated.Episode Highlights00:00 – Episode RecapSteve Elliott shares how each startup exit taught him something new—but also how returning to the founder’s seat means unlearning old assumptions. Now, with Dotwork, he’s not just building a tool—he’s rethinking how organizations make decisions in complexity.01:45 – Guest Introduction: Steve ElliottBarry introduces Steve Elliott, founder of AgileCraft (acquired by Atlassian) and CEO of Dotwork, with a track record of five successful exits and a deep focus on enterprise work management.03:40 – Early career shiftsFrom a consulting career at PwC to software experiments that took off—how Steve found his way into entrepreneurship.08:55 – From technologist to founderThe value of combining tech expertise with business empathy—and why startups offer unmatched learning opportunities.11:05 – Unlearning post-acquisition mindsets What Steve had to unlearn transitioning from CEO to leader within a larger company—and back again.13:36 – Building tools for strategic decisionsWhy enterprise tools fail to support real-time, strategic decisions—and how Steve is tackling the problem differently.17:50 – The rise of agentic frameworksHow Dotwork is using knowledge graphs and agentic AI to reflect the dynamic, decentralized nature of modern organizations.23:31 – Breaking through transformation fatigueHow Dotwork builds trust not through marketing, but by showing real, contextual results fast.26:23 – Beyond dashboards: AI-native UXWhy true AI-native platforms don’t ask you to log in—they come to you with insight in the moment.32:44 – Coaching execs on AIBarry shares his experience coaching executives on AI—and why hands-on experimentation is the only path to mastery.36:07 – Context engines for agentsSteve explains how Dotwork unintentionally became a context memory platform—crucial for the future of autonomous agents.40:36 – Magic moments in enterprise UXWhen engineering hasn’t seen the reports their software generates—because the platform is that intuitive.43:17 – Closing ReflectionsSteve reflects on the value of doing over theorizing—and the importance of staying close to the problem if you want to innovate meaningfully.
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The Human Side of AI: How HR Can Lead the Transformation with Cass Pratt
Nov 1900:45:45Tap to summarizeIn this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, I sit down with Cass Pratt, Chief Human Resources Officer at Progyny, to explore how HR is evolving into a design discipline that blends human connection with AI-powered productivity. From building bots to boost employee experience to reshaping how we think about roles in an automated world, Cass shares an honest look at how she’s bringing people along on a transformation journey—with curiosity, experimentation, and heart.We discuss her pivotal decision to say yes to opportunities beyond her comfort zone, the strategic shifts she's leading inside a fast-scaling company, and why the future of HR is about enhancing humanity, not replacing it. If you’re wondering what leadership looks like when AI meets empathy, this one’s for you.Key TakeawaysUnlearning expertise-dependence: Cass shifted from relying on experts to co-creating solutions with AI tools before engaging others.AI as a force for elevation: At Progyny, AI is used to give employees time back, not take roles away—enabling deeper focus on human-centric work.Low-code leadership: Cass, a self-described non-technical leader, built HR bots and reimagined policies through practical AI applications.Scaling culture through consistency: AI chatbots improved response times, standardized answers, and gave insight into employee concerns.Embedding experimentation: Teams are encouraged to ask, "What should I stop doing?"—sparking a culture of reinvention and initiative.Additional InsightsProgyny’s “Super Fans” initiative reframes AI gains as an opportunity to deepen customer and employee relationships.Training is done in cohorts to build shared understanding and reduce AI anxiety.Cross-functional collaboration with junior team members—like the intern who built the HR bot—shows how innovation can come from any level.Cass uses AI to simplify and globalize complex frameworks like competency models, improving alignment across teams and geographies.Episode Highlights00:00 – Episode Recap Cassandra Pratt shares how embracing discomfort led her to leap into healthcare, build a transformative HR function, and lead with AI—not to eliminate roles, but to elevate people and amplify their impact.02:37 – Guest Introduction: Cassandra Pratt Barry introduces Cass Pratt, Chief People Officer at Progyny, a fertility and family-building benefits company scaling rapidly with a human-first, tech-empowered culture.04:48 – Saying Yes to Growth Cass reflects on a missed opportunity that taught her the cost of saying no—and set her on a path to jump into unknowns with conviction.08:04 – Startup Lessons and Leadership Growth From 50 to 850 employees, Cass shares what it means to grow with a company and embrace mistakes as part of the journey.11:00 – Diving into AI Without a Tech Background Despite lacking technical skills, Cass threw herself into generative AI—learning by doing and discovering intuitive ways to drive value.13:10 – Unlearning the Expert Reflex Cass rethinks her default of turning to experts first—instead starting with AI to shape stronger ideas and bring others in as collaborators.15:13 – Redesigning Processes, Not Just Tools AI opened up opportunities to rethink workflows from scratch, not just automate existing inefficiencies.20:35 – Making AI Safe and Human Cass shares how transparent messaging, training, and cultural reinforcement helps ease AI anxieties and keep the focus on people.25:00 – Building the HR Bot with an Intern An intern-built benefits chatbot improved response times, consistency, and surfaced new insights—highlighting the power of junior talent and experimentation.28:41 – Simplifying Competency Models with AI Cass uses AI to refine complex frameworks, making them scalable across geographies and easier for leaders to apply.30:00 – Rethinking Work Through Elimination By asking what should be stopped—not added—Cass surfaces high-leverage opportunities to transform HR workflows.34:33 – The Two Extremes of HR and AI Adoption Cass observes a divide: HR teams either lead AI transformation—or risk being the last to catch up.40:45 – Cross-Functional Collaboration and Culture AI transformation is a team sport—embedding HR into company-wide initiatives empowers better collaboration and outcomes.43:38 – Freeing Up Time to Be Present Cass highlights how AI helps reclaim time for the most human part of HR: being present, listening, and solving meaningful problems together.Useful ResourcesProgyny: https://www.progyny.comConnect with Cassandra Pratt: LinkedInAI Executive Coaching by Barry: https://barryoreilly.comFollow the HostLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/barryoreillyWebsite: barryoreilly.comFacebook: facebook.com/barryoreillyauthorTwitter/X: x.com/barryoreillyInstagram: instagram.com/barryoreilly
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How to Create Irresistible Change for Business Transformation with Phil Gilbert
Nov 500:43:14Tap to summarizeWhen most leaders think about transformation, they reach for tools and tactics. But real, lasting change doesn’t start with new methods—it starts with culture. In this episode, I sit down with Phil Gilbert, the former General Manager of Design at IBM, who led one of the boldest reinventions in corporate history. After selling his third startup to IBM in 2010, Phil was asked to transform how IBM’s teams worked using design thinking and agile. That effort reshaped the experience of over 400,000 employees and became the subject of a Harvard Business School case study, the documentary The Loop, and coverage in the New York Times and Fortune.We explore how culture drives outcomes, why the team is the atomic unit of change, and how to design a leadership structure that earns trust and creates momentum. Phil brings sharp insight, rich stories, and practical frameworks drawn from a 45-year career spanning startups, scale-ups, and global enterprises. If you’re leading change—or trying to get others to believe in it—this conversation is your blueprint.Phil Gilbert is best known for scaling IBM’s global design transformation. He was inducted into the New York Foundation for the Arts Hall of Fame in 2018 and named an Oklahoma Creativity Ambassador in 2019. Since retiring from IBM in 2022, Phil has focused on helping business and military leaders shift culture at scale to improve innovation and team performance.Key TakeawaysCulture is the system: Real transformation means rewiring people, practices, and places—not just teaching new skills.Teams are the atomic unit of change: Change doesn’t scale through individual mandates. It scales when cross-functional teams deliver new outcomes.Design scales empathy: Phil shares how design thinking isn’t just about aesthetics—it’s a tool for scaling understanding and improving systems.Transformation needs protection: Change teams need structural support and a leadership “shell” that shields them while engaging the broader org.Momentum beats mandates: Leaders can’t impose change—they must earn it by showing results, listening deeply, and integrating across silos.Additional Insights"Every day is a prototype": Phil’s mantra that gives teams permission to change, test, and learn continuously.The virus model of leadership: To spread new ways of working, Phil designed his leadership team like a virus—with spikes into HR, finance, comms, and IT.Designers aren’t the barrier—systems are: In companies with weak design reputations, the problem isn’t the designers. It’s the culture around them.Shadow IT kills transformation: Real progress happens when change leaders partner with CIOs—not work around them.Most AI efforts are missing the point: Phil argues that AI transformation fails when it focuses on individuals instead of improving team-level outcomes.Episode Highlights00:00 - Episode RecapBarry O’Reilly recaps the episode’s theme, discussing leadership challenges, reclaiming strategic focus, and leveraging frameworks, executive habits, and AI to drive impactful business outcomes.2:26 - Guest IntroductionBarry introduces Phil Gilbert, renowned for leading a major cultural transformation at IBM through human-centered design. He previews Phil’s new book, “Irresistible Change,” and sets expectations for a discussion on leadership, empathy, and executing change at scale.3:21 - Official Start of ConversationPhil Gilbert reflects on pivotal career moments, including his experience founding early startups, the challenge of driving adoption for new technologies, and discovering the power of empathy and design. He introduces his guiding philosophy, “every day is a prototype.”9:15 - The Power of Prototyping and Embracing ChangePhil explains how prototyping and a willingness to challenge the status quo lead to organizational and personal growth. He shares his “every day is a prototype” mantra and stresses the role of openness in innovation.13:48 - Culture as a Driver of OutcomesPhil outlines his formula for driving real change, focusing on people, practices, and places. He discusses his use of journaling and intentional observation to systematically build curiosity and support for change in teams.20:47 - Designing Transformation at ScalePhil discusses the challenge of leading IBM’s company-wide design movement. He explains his strategy to reach and influence 400,000 employees and the importance of building a diverse leadership team to support transformative efforts.31:29 - Practical Tactics for Organizational ChangePhil details the need to integrate HR, tooling, and communications into the transformation process, sharing stories about revamping career ladders and piloting new tools. He emphasizes collaboration and transparency with key stakeholders like HR and CIOs.37:51 - Lessons for Modern AI TransformationPhil and Barry examine current challenges with AI change efforts, arguing that teams—not just individuals—are the fundamental units for successful transformation. They discuss why team-level outcomes should guide measurement and strategy for adopting new technologies.41:09 - Hopes and Irresistible Change for the FuturePhil shares his vision for the next wave of business transformation, especially regarding AI. Drawing inspiration from cloud computing’s impact, he hopes leaders will adopt principles that empower teams to drive industry-defining change.Useful ResourcesPhil Gilbert – Irresistible Change (book): Buy on AmazonConnect with Phil on LinkedIn: Phil GilbertBarry’s blog on AIFollow the HostLinkedInTwitter / XInstagramFacebookWebsite
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