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unSeminary Podcast
Helping Your Church Engage with God’s Word Daily: Lessons from YouVersion with Lucinda Ross
00:29:17
Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we’re joined by Lucinda Ross, Central Group Leader of Communications at Life.Church, one of the most influential and innovative churches in the world. Since its founding in 1996, Life.
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- [00:01]
A
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B
The Unseminary Podcast, the place where church leaders get practical insights, tips and strategies for ministry growth. Today, you're stepping into something bigger than just a conversation. This podcast is part of a bold mission to help 100 churches grow by 1,000 people. Whether you're dreaming of increasing your impact in your community, empowering your team, or reaching more people with the message of Jesus, you're in the right place. We're here to bring you the stuff you wish they taught in seminary, ideas and tools you can put into action this week to see transformation in your ministry. Let's dive in.
- [01:59]
A
Hey friends, welcome to the Unseminary Podcast. Super honored that you are listening in today and you're going to be rewarded for this. You might not know it, but here in November is Global Bible Month and I'm super honored to have you know you feel like you're talking to a rock star. Like somebody who's at the center of something that's pretty amazing that's going on. Today's one of those days. Lucinda Ross. She is a central group leader of communications at Life Church. If you have been sleeping under a rock and do not know Life Church, they started in 1996 and it was grown into this incredibly diverse group of people meeting with cities all across the United States and around the world. They have, if I'm counting correctly, if I can count all the slots, 40 physical locations in several states in the US and an incredibly robust online community. Life Church has several resources and tools for growth for really helping churches grow, including their open network for churches and the Bible app from YouVersion, which really seeks to put God's word in the hands of everyone every day, everywhere. And, man, they have just done amazing stuff. And Lucinda, I'm super glad honor really to have you on the show today. Thanks for being here.
- [03:01]
C
Thanks so much, Rich. That was just a kind, kind introduction. Just humbled and honored to play small part in what God's doing here.
- [03:09]
A
Well, I appreciate you being humble, but like, youversion has. Has just had such a monster impact on so many people's lives. And I'm really happy to celebrate it this month and to kind of dive deep a little bit, tell a little bit more about that. But why don't we kind of start before we jump in? Tell us a little bit about your background. How did you get connected to this, this whole thing? And then I'd love to chat through what we're talking about today.
- [03:32]
C
Yeah. So I have had the honor of being on the Life Church team for almost 13 years. So started out attending, never thought I would be in ministry. God had me in corporate world and thought that that's where my place was, and he had other plans for me. And so he's used Life Church to change my life, to draw me closer to him. And I'm just super honored that I get to play a part in it now. And so in part of what I do as the leader of communications at our church is I just get to tell stories. I get to do the fun part of just sharing what God is doing in our ministries. Like youversion.
- [04:04]
A
Love it. So good. Well, Life Church man, has had just incredible impact and reach in both physical and digital realms. And God's used it in so many ways. From your seat, from your perspective, what's kind of driving that transformation? What is it that God's using in the kind of Life church community to make such huge impact?
- [04:25]
C
Yeah, there's no denying that God's hand is all over this every step of the way. And so one of the things that our. One of our leaders, Bobby Gruenwald says is it's. It's all him and it's all his. And so when you approach things with that kind of posture, it's. It gives you just the obedience to take risks because you know that we can have the faith to believe that something incredible is possible on the other side. And so seeing our leaders model that, getting to Play a part in that, where we are just going for it, consistently thinking about, okay, what's next? What does God have next? How if our vision truly is to reach people, everyone, everywhere, every day. It's a vision of. Of you version, but also the mission of life Church is to lead people to become fully devoted followers of. If those are the things that we're focused on, those are big. That three everys in the vision of youversion means we've always got work to do. That work will outlive us. And so thinking about just taking risk, being obedient, and seeing where God has, where that momentum is and just pouring.
- [05:23]
A
Fuel on that fire, it's so good. Well, you know, every pastor that's listening in, you know, they want to see people be changed. They want to see people be transformed. They want. They don't. There's this misnomer that, you know, pastors just want large crowds and they don't really care whether transformation happens. That's just not true that those aren't the people I interact with. They want to see people, you know, their lives turned upside down in the best possible way. What are you learning about what actually drives change in people's lives? What are you seeing from your perspective that we're. That actually sees that kind of transformation take place?
- [05:55]
C
Yeah. We can all agree, just like you said, like, pastors care about people's lives being changed. So we can all agree that there's critical pieces to someone's spiritual journey. So not everyone's on the same journey at the same time, at the same pace. But those steps of faith are super critical. Finding biblical community, serving, giving. But one of the things that we're focused on specifically at youversion is how do we get people engaged in God's word every single day? And so spending time in God's word, we know, is a critical part of their spiritual journey, of their life, the transformation that God does in their lives. And so that's the part, the piece we get to play in what he's doing in those spiritual journeys. And so I think just thinking about pastors who want to see that happen, it's what happens outside the walls of the church. And we know that that's the case. We only had that limited time with them every single weekend. And, you know, maybe in some other spaces, but. But what is God doing outside the walls of the church?
- [06:48]
A
Yeah, I want to listen, pull back the fourth wall for a little bit. Just want to honor you and the team at YouVersion. Like, you guys have done just an incredible Job, like, what a resource to give to the church. It's had just huge impact. Worth celebrating. I think I saw your crossing, or I've crossed a billion downloads. Like, that's just incredible. Even just in my little small group a couple years ago, I had one of those transformative experiences with a guy. He's the kind of guy, reach mid-30s guy, unchurched guy, and he's taken steps towards Jesus and like, it's like stupidly simple what I'm about to share. But he was like, you know, I'm really struggling with reading the Bible on a regular basis. And so I literally took out my phone, fired up the app and I said, look here, it'll. Why don't we do like a three day plan? Let's try a three day plan this week and then how that goes. Then if we do that, why don't we then together do a five day plan and then a seven day plan and then literally just built up the streaks. And I remember a couple months later after that he was sharing, he's like, you know, that changed my life. Like, he's like, I never thought I'd be the kind of person that read the Bible every day. And this is what you know, I know you've done that on scale for literally millions of people. But many churches know about the Bible app. They know about youversion, but they maybe haven't connected it to the weekly rhythms of the people at their church. Like, they might say, like, hey, download the app, but they haven't figured out how to really integrate. I'd love to focus on that today. How can we integrate? What are you seeing? Kind of the best practices for integrating this app into its. Into their ministries.
- [08:17]
C
Yeah, that's great. Oh, I love that story. Like, that's it. That's literally what we want to see. Yeah, that's just, you know, that those little, the steps to just download the app, open it and just start taking those like steps through along the way. I think if you just back up and think about, you hit on this really quickly, but we are approaching a billion downloads. We're getting really close. We're actually going to celebrate that next month, which is really, really exciting. But what we're even more excited about than the number of devices that have God's Word is really the number of people who are regularly engaging in it. That's actually growing really, really quickly right now. So the last five Sundays are ranked as some of the top 10 highest days ever for Bible engagement in the app. Like, that's where we Are right now. Nothing. Yeah. So when you think back, I mean, it's ranking up there with like Easter in the beginning of the year when people are starting those, trying to start those habits. But we're seeing that, that kind of momentum where the Bible app is opened a billion times every 39 days. And so, yeah, it's, it is, it's just so encouraging and it's just so exciting to see people hungry for God's Word. And so I think, just backing up. Yes, we want to get people in it, but just, I think getting ourselves in a place to think about the why. Like, why do we really want people in God's Word? We know that it changes their lives, and we've all hopefully experienced the impact that it. But when you back up and think about what will it do in their lives, how can you cast vision for what will happen on the other side of regular engagement? God's Word. So one of the things we talk about a lot here is the power of four. So if you, a lot of you may be familiar with it, but if you're not, the center for Bible Engagement did a study that found that engaging in the Bible four or more days a week has a profound impact on someone's life. So in fact, hearing from God through His Word is a single most powerful predictor of their spiritual growth. They're more likely to share their faith. It decreases their struggles, like their felt needs, like fear, anxiety, loneliness, and actually reduce some of their, like, risky behaviors, like the things that they're doing in their life that they want to stop doing. And so if you think about that, why of like, oh, it's, yes, we want people to grow in their spiritual journey, but we actually just want their lives to feel different. We want them to operate in the power of the Holy Spirit every day. And reading in His Word and connecting with God in that way is such an important part of doing that.
- [10:31]
A
Yeah, that's so good. I know that church engagement kind of engagement as a church has been at the core of the youversion story right from the very beginning. I remember. Well, whenever youversion started years ago, I remember Andy at North Point talking about, you know, I was talking to Craig Groeschel and they're doing this thing with the Bible and like, with this app. And like, we're going to try it over here too. And like, right from the beginning, this idea of like churches encouraging their people to. Has been kind of built in right from the beginning. You mentioned that, you know, we, we see that kind of engagement, but how, how do we actually use it. Walk us through. How can we better leverage this to really shepherd our people?
- [11:11]
C
Yeah, absolutely. So I think just as, as a local church getting to steward this kingdom resource like our heart is like, how can we help equip and empower pastors and church leaders to do that? So one of the ways we do that through you version Connect. So there's features in the app, in the Bible app, so you might be using on a personal level, but if you haven't kind of dug a little bit deeper, you can, your church can actually have a dedicated space in the app where they can, where people can find community, they can see who else is attending their church, so they can find churches near them. So if you go to the Discover tab or at the very bottom, you can search churches and it shows churches, my friends go to people that I friended in the app, but also churches near me so that getting people connected into a church, that's super important. Of course. Also pastors and church leaders can feature reading plans within their page on the Bible app. So if you're doing a specific series on anxiety, for example, you can find a great Bible plan that you feel confident about, you want to put in for your people, you want people to engage in that way, put it on your page and then you can promote it as you're talking every single weekend. The other piece of that is there's post, so you can actually send passages, devotionals, sermon follow ups to the entire community, all the people that are following the church page. So when they open it, their pastor's guidance is right there with them. I think beyond that there's, you know, live events where you can put sermon notes, people can follow along, they can highlight, they can add notes and thoughts. So that digital way of, of being able to keep, keep track of what, what my pastor's talking about. I can go back to it. What was he, you know, what did he or she mentioned in, in that specific verse? Go back, what did I think about that and reflect on it. I think one of the most powerful things in all of this. So when we, you know, get our church engaged in this way, you know, being able to see they're connected, they're following. I know you know, what they're, what they're, what I'm leading them to do. But also you can get insights so that you can see what kind of engagement on an aggregated anonymous level, but you can see what are the kinds of things that my church is thinking about, what are they looking for, what are they struggling with what kinds of Bible plans? And so when you do that, it's. You're able to have just another little connection. Of course, those conversations and those relationships are a huge part of that, but just another like input. There's a little spiritual health dashboard for you to be able to have an input into. How can you best serve your church and what they're walking through right now.
- [13:28]
A
I love that. I love the use of the data. What are, what are. That's a, you know, being able to kind of see like you say, at an anonymized. But still the people that are following our church. That's powerful data for a pastor. You know, we often come up to this, even this time of year, lots of churches are thinking about what are we going to preach on next year? What's our calendar going to look at? Well, let's actually try to pull out some data from, you know, the YouVersion app to understand what our people are wrestling with. How are some pastors or teams use that data to better shepherd their people? What's that actually look like? If you have examples of what that's what that looks like at a church level?
- [13:59]
C
Yeah, I think, I mean, I think they're. I think one is helping people connect to each other and so being able to do Bible plans together. So I think that's a good, like there's an example there. But I also think, you know, finding that data just to think about what, what might, what might my sermons look like? What might my series look like? What. Or you know, if people are really interested in finding community, like, that's something that it looks like they're, they're really interested in. Okay, so how do I help them get more connected rather than it be something that they, they see and they go seek out. How do I put it in front of them? So I think those are the kinds of things of like just picking up on those threads. And so there's lots of, there's lots of inputs that we can take, but I think it's just really. Okay, how can I combine what I'm seeing, the data in front of me, what, what people are actually doing or you know, even just their, their frequency of engagement in the app. Like, how can I know? Okay, that's they, they're doing well or I can challenge them to more. And so I think in being able to see that, take those, you know, that prayer, Holy Spirit guidance on. Okay, now, now where. How do I lead my congregation? How do I shepherd my flock moving forward?
- [15:03]
A
Yeah, that's so good. And this Is softball question here. So I'm a church. I want to set up my, my church page. How much is that going to cost me? I know there's like, that's going to cost a lot of money. This kind of technology. You're talking about reading plans, connecting our people, getting that all costs. Sounds like money. What's it costing me?
- [15:21]
C
Absolutely nothing. It always is. Free, will be free. And I think that's the piece of the generosity of people all over the world to really see the vision of getting God's word everywhere to enable us to be able to do this for free. And so to be able to give it away like that is the heart of who we are as a church, as a ministry. But it's not without the generosity of believers all over the world.
- [15:49]
A
Yeah. If you've ever done Friends, if you're listening in and ever done any app development work for phones or even just like web apps, it's complex to do and to maintain and keep running. And at the scale that this app runs at is insane to be able to keep this thing up and running and so smooth. The fact that you can open the app every time and it works, it's insane at the scale that you guys are operating at. Well, Global Bible Month is here in November. How are, how can churches leverage that moment to kind of build better, healthy spiritual rhythms in their people? What. How could we. This kind of an interesting month. I've never, I don't know, maybe I've been under the rock somewhere. I've never heard of Global Bible Month except for, I don't know, I've been following you guys and you're talking about it, which is great. So how could we leverage this as an opportunity? What are some things we could do to try to encourage this, encourage Bible reading in our people this month?
- [16:39]
C
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's. So as we saw, as we. I mentioned earlier, just as we're coming up on a billion installs, we looked at not just how do we celebrate ourselves? Like, that's not who we are, what we're about. We're actually terrible at celebrating ourselves. That's. That's a point of weakness. But we recognized that this is a moment for the Bible. This is an one of billions of reasons that God's word is, is alive and active and just like I said, the momentum that is building around it. And so as we looked ahead and thought about, okay, we're going to reach this milestone, how do we just point everyone to the Bible, we've actually gotten to partner with Lots of other organization, ministries, organizations, other apps, Glorify, Hallow, who. We're all on board Global Bible Months. Like we are celebrating the Bible and one of the big ways that we're doing that is through the 30 day Bible challenge. 30 day challenge. So what we're encouraging people to do and I would love for pastors to really, you know, encourage and challenge our churches in this way is, is maybe that you're someone who is just inconsistent. You're in and out, you kind of really try, but it's just not really stuck. That habit hasn't quite clicked or even all the way to the end of like, you know, I've tried so many other things, I don't even know really what, what I believe I'm, you know, I'm doing meditation, mindfulness, what other things. Let me, why don't I give the Bible a chance? So that huge spectrum of people, so encouraging the people who are in his word to keep going, to inspire, share the people, make it consistent or the people just to give it a try. 30 days, every single day of November, open the Bible, experience God Word, God's Word and see what happens. And that's really like the heart of the challenge and, and challenging people both to take it for themselves, but just to invite people around them to do it too. And so it's been really exciting to see how many people are already committing to it. And we're just, you know, we're still like a little over a month away or about a month away. And so it's exciting to see and we know, we know that God's going to do something really special through this. And so just rallying around, getting people to commit and to build that habit. We know, we've all seen studies about it takes about three weeks to build a habit like that. 30 days, that's, that's on purpose. Like you get through 30 days like you've done something and being able to create that habit and build it into before January, before, you know, the times that we think we want to make those habits. Like let's do it now. Now let's all rally together and do this.
- [19:02]
A
Okay, let's pivot in a slightly different direction. So I'm a fan and this, remember this comes from a spot of like I use the YouVersion app. I love it. So this is not a personal attack, but there are people out there who like are really down on app based Bible experiences. They're like, you gotta read it in like a, you know, an actual physical book. And I'm not trying to pick a fight here. I'm not trying to like get in an argument over this, but I'm sure you've had people say that. And I don't know what to say. I just say I give the dumb answer and I'm like, listen, I just want people in God's word. And I'm like, I am like, I don't know. Like, I've seen lots of people get engaged when they use youversion and I want to see more of that happen. But what do you say or how do you think about that? You know, that critique, It's a weird critique to me. It always seems strange to me when, when, when pastors, particularly when they take on. Again, I'm not trying to pick a fight, but what do you think about that comment?
- [20:00]
C
I mean, no, I think that's something that we, and when we talk about the 30 day challenge. So like just really quickly on that. And it's not even a complete different direction. Like, honestly, it's however that works best for you, you know, paper Bible. And that's the other exciting part of Bible momentum, like the Bible engagement momentum. It's not just what we're seeing. We're seeing print Bible sales go up. We're seeing like Gen Z buying like the, the, the fact that God's word is at the center of this. It doesn't like we have zero just engage with God's Word. If we are a helpful way for you to do that, great. And so when we go back and tell the story actually of when Bobby Grunewald had the idea to create the Bible app, one of the things he was trying to solve for himself is that idea of consistency of like, I just want to be more consistent. But I, like, I wonder if technology can help me with that. And so as you kind of fast forward through the story, one of the things that happened along the way is we actually created a website. I don't know if a lot of people know the story. We actually created a website first and people started going to it and then it failed. Well, this was in 2007. People didn't necessarily have like, you know, it was like a desktop experience. And so what he always says that always sticks with me is we moved it from their nightstand to their, their desk, their desktop. And so what, what the Bible app, what technology helps us solve for is the fact that we're not necessarily always going to have our paper Bible with us everywhere we go, but we also will have it with us everywhere we go. And we can engage in different ways. Some people audio Bible is really helpful for them. Like that's something that they, that's a really powerful way that they engage in God's word. Having the different versions, the languages, like they're just different things that it solves for or helps with. But yeah, that's absolutely not to diminish. You know, if people. More power to you. If you like your paper Bible, that's your, that's your go to. Great. We love that.
- [21:47]
A
Love it. Friends, listen to, go back and listen to Lucinda there. Incredible communicator. You do a good job at your thing and you're not picking the fight. You totally dodged my question and answered in a super gracious way. Not surprised by that at all. Friends, we just want to see more people engaged with scripture. We know that it's life transformating. It's such a clear picture of what it means to follow Jesus when we engage in his word. And so let's get back to the 30 day challenge. I think that's amazing. Are, do you know of churches that are doing this together or is there, is there a way that we could encourage. Is there. Would you want to send them somewhere to kind of be a part of that or. I'm, I'm sure there's a bunch of different people are doing reading plans on, on, you know, youversion. Talk us through. How can we get more involved if we're like, oh, we're intrigued in that we should do that.
- [22:34]
C
Yep. So if you go to globalbiblemont.com 1, we'd love for Pete for you to send people that just to sign up for it, just so that we can show. That's the encouraging part of seeing that number of people who've signed up, seeing that grow and seeing that momentum. But beyond that, there's actually free church resources there. So there are sermon outlines, graphic slides, other things that you could do to challenge your church in this way. So there are, we're curating some 30 day plans so that we make it really easy. So if you wanted to choose one and challenge your church to go through the same one together, you could use, you know, for smaller groups of that. You could use some, you know, plans with friends feature to be able to do that together. You could discuss it in other places, but really it's what, what, it's what you, you guys as pastors, you know your church is best. You know, you know what you're, what you're teaching on, what you're walking through and how your people respond. But we definitely want to make sure that those resources are available so that you can take that run with it. But I think definitely just encouraging to sign up so that we can help show and encourage other people to engage in that way.
- [23:37]
A
So that's globalbiblemonth.com we want to send people over there, make sure they sign up, you know, kind of flag that they're interested and there's some resources there. You can see various, you know, apps and that that are participating. That that would be a great first step from people. Well, let's think a little bit about the future. As you think about the future at youversion, man, that vision of the three E's, and it stood out to me. I don't know again where I've missed this, but somewhere along as I was prepping for this, I bumped into that. Everyone, every day, everywhere. As you think about the future, what are the questions that you're. That you guys are asking thinking about the future, about how we can see more people engage with scripture. We definitely seem to have a moment now. I've been saying this in lots of contexts when we talk about this stuff. I'm like, let's not miss this moment. Let's not just, you know, let this go by, but let's try to build a new foundation for a future. So what, what does the future look like for you as you wrestle with, you know, where's God taking you? Version as we go next?
- [24:35]
C
Yeah, so I think one of the things there's. There are lots of different areas that we are looking at, but I think if you just collectively look at it, one is continuing to grow, continuing to get the Bible to more people around the world. And that also has expanded into. We talk about a billion. We're talking about family of apps now. So beyond the Bible app, we have Bible app Light, which is for areas with lower connectivity and less capable devices. Bible app for kids, of course, has been around. So continuing to build on those and looking for more opportunities. Are there other things that we're. That we need to pursue in that space? So that's continued growth. We've talked a lot about engagement. That's a really important part. That power of four, that idea of how do we create features, how do we continue to update the apps and build opportunities for people to engage more? So if you go back to when we added streaks, which for some people it's helpful, some people it's not. But it's one of those things that it just helps prompt people to think about, oh, have I spent time with God today? And so really looking at engagement. How do we get people not just into God's word once, but coming back every single day? The. And then another part of where we're looking at in the future is really is personalization. So one of the things we found makes a significant difference in consistency is when people have the Bible in their heart language. So more languages and biblical content that's really reflective of their local culture or what they're going through in that moment. We can't pretend to know from Oklahoma and the US what someone's going through on the other side of the world. So we're actually setting up, we're. We're expanding and we have actually global hubs where we have teams of people around the world who are focused on building relationships with pastors, church leaders, content partners, so that we can have more content in the app that meets people in their very specific context. So. So yeah, with the help of our partners, we're now we're offering 3600 versions of the Bible in 2300 languages. And we just see that growing, especially with Bible translation efforts accelerating. Like I said, those hubs, Latin America, we're looking at Europe, Africa, we have one in Australia. To really meet people, everyone, everywhere, not just in the context of where we are here.
- [26:46]
A
That's incredible. Well, I just want to honor you and the team at YouVersion. You're doing an amazing work. Work. And you know this. It's been such a consistent player for years, Dec, you know, whatever that is. Now almost two decades, we're coming up on, you know, of just helping churches and helping people take steps closer to and using, you know, engaging with scripture more. So just want to honor you and just everybody at the team that's making it happen as we wrap up today's conversation. Anything else you want to share just as we kind of close down today?
- [27:18]
C
Yeah, just thank you so much for this opportunity. Thank you so much for what you're doing, both on an individual level to lead someone in your small group to engage in God's Word, but also for, you know, using the platform that you have to help others, inspire others to. To continue leading in this way. And so just thank you to you and I think just for everyone listening to, just think about how can we play our. Our part and pointing people back to God so he can speak them directly through His Word. So just thank you for what you're doing, for what your listeners are doing to serve the kingdom.
- [27:51]
A
That's great. So globalbiblemonth.com that's really the punchline where we want to send people. Is there anywhere else we want to send them online to connect with, plug in more Are there places if I'm a church leader and I've heard ops talk about all these pages and all that stuff is there. Open up the app and explore is probably the answer, but are there other places we want to send that are kind of helpful for that thing that we talked about earlier?
- [28:12]
C
Yes. So if you are interested in getting your church in the Bible app and so it can be found youversion.com connect is your first step there. And so that will open up youversion Connect is where we would point pastors and church leaders to be able to go find how they can do all of those things and unpack those insights that I talked about. That's your best bet in that direction.
- [28:35]
A
Great. Thanks so much, Lucinda. Appreciate you being here today.
- [28:37]
C
Thank you so much, Rich. Appreciate you.
- [28:39]
B
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Unseminary Podcast. If you found today's conversation helpful, I'd share it with a friend in ministry. It's a simple way to spark new ideas and grow together. Also, don't Forget to visit unseminary.com to sign up for our email list. You'll get exclusive resources and practical tools delivered straight to your inbox to help you lead your church more effectively. Most importantly, take what you learned today and put it into action this week. Ministry impact starts with small, intentional steps. See you next time.