unSeminary Podcast: "Power of a Map, Not a Menu: Transforming Ministry Strategy with Mariners Church’s Jared Kirkwood"

Podcast: unSeminary
Host: Rich Birch
Guest: Jared Kirkwood, Lead Pastor of Mariners Irvine / Executive Pastor of Ministries, Mariners Church
Date: December 12, 2024

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth discussion with Jared Kirkwood from Mariners Church, a fast-growing, multi-site church in California. The conversation centers around how Mariners aligns its expanding network of campuses using a "map, not a menu" approach, emphasizing strategic clarity, ministry alignment, and leadership frameworks that drive both numerical and spiritual growth. Jared shares practical systems for aligning ministry environments across campuses, planning teaching calendars, and ensuring every initiative fits within a transformative discipleship process.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Mariners Church: Background & Leadership Journey

• Jared’s Story: Joined Mariners as a college student, volunteered, then served in youth ministry for 11 years before leading Rooted Network, then stepping into executive leadership.
• Leadership Transitions: Described the seamless senior pastor transition from Kenton Beshore to Eric Geiger as a “masterclass” in succession.
  “Those two guys led a masterclass of what senior pastor succession looks like. It’s amazing.” (03:23)

2. Mission-Driven Strategy: The Transformational Loop

• Mariners’ Mission: “Inspire people to follow Jesus and fearlessly change the world.”

• "Transformational Loop": Four phased discipleship journey:

  • Follow Jesus: Weekend experience.
  • Grow Together: Rooted, life groups, care/recovery, discipleship courses.
  • Serve One Another: Volunteer teams.
  • Change the World: Outreach (local/global).

• Strategy vs. Program Management:
  “The last thing I want my staff to do is spend their time just managing programs... We want to disciple people.” (07:00)

• Key Insight: Constant focus on guiding people through a defined process rather than offering endless programs.

3. The “Map, Not a Menu” Mentality

• Old Approach: Used to have physical “menus” of programs, leading to a travel agent mindset—directing people without journeying with them.
• New Approach: Staff operate as “tour guides”—personally inviting and escorting people through growth steps.
  • “We want to be a church that is about having a map rather than a menu.” (09:22)
  • “We want to invite them—‘Hey, come and do Rooted with me... serve with us’—rather than, ‘There’s this thing over there, go do that.’” (10:08)

4. Multi-site Alignment: Centralized Strategy, Local Expressions

• Structure: Each campus ministry leader serves as the strategy lead for their area church-wide.

• Clarity: Eliminates confusion and political “loudest voice wins” moments in multi-site environments.

• Tiered Ministry Roadmap:

  • Tier A: "All Church" non-negotiables (e.g., Rooted).
  • Tier B: All-church priorities contextualized locally (e.g., discipleship courses).
  • Tier C: Unique, approved local initiatives (with guardrails for alignment).

  “Tier A happens first, B kind of happens with A... The C is where all the rubber meets the road.” (16:19)

• Approval & Contextualization: C-level events must connect to core strategy and get central approval but allow for cultural uniqueness (e.g., Irvine vs. Santa Ana).

5. Teaching Calendar & Integration with Ministry Strategy

• Advanced Planning: Teaching calendar is finalized a full year in advance—with Scriptures, themes, and “sermon briefs.”
  “I could tell you the scripture for each week of the Christmas series in 2025.” (13:02)
• Synchronization: Ministry events, launches, and programs aligned to the momentum of the teaching calendar.
• Responsiveness: When teaching evokes deeper interest, ministry provides additional environments (courses, care, etc.) as follow-on steps.

6. Planning Process & Adaptive Flexibility

• Timeline:
  • July: Teaching plan arrives.
  • August: Leadership team integrates Tier A/B/C events (calendar set by September).
  • Quarterly: Evaluate and adjust as needed.
• Adaptive Leadership:
  “We’re allowed to break our rules anytime... But you know it comes at a cost.” (21:42)

7. Assessing Impact: The Ministry Quadrant "Garden" Framework

• Business-inspired model: Evaluate ministries as Weeds (drain resources), Problem Trees (potential but underperforming), Nice Plants (performing but limited), and Flourishing Trees (performing and potential).

  • Rooted = Flourishing Tree: Catalyzes groups, service, giving, and spiritual growth.
  • Life Groups (current example) = Problem Tree: High potential, not matching Rooted’s impact.
  • Weeds: Legacy or inherited ministries that drain energy but aren’t strategic.

  “If nobody wants to oversee it... it’s probably a weed.” (27:28)

8. Change Management & Innovation Guardrails

• Sunsetting Programs: Approach “weeds” with care—listen, honor legacy, clearly communicate the better future, walk people toward solutions.
• Innovation Check: When staff propose new things, ask for stories of real people impacted, to ensure focus remains on shepherding, not just ideation.
  • “Stop starting things and just keep shepherding people.” (32:26)

9. Final Encouragement: Keeping the Mission Central

• Pastoral Focus: Resist letting the “business” of church distract from pointing people to Jesus.
  • “What you pour into your teams is what will overflow into their teams and will overflow into the church. So let’s just keep our eyes on Jesus.” (33:15)

Notable Quotes

• “We want to pastor people through a process, through a strategy, rather than being a program manager.” (07:00) — Jared Kirkwood
• “We want to be a church that is about having a map rather than a menu.” (09:22) — Jared Kirkwood
• “If nobody wants to oversee it... it’s probably a weed.” (27:28) — Jared Kirkwood
• “Stop starting things and just keep shepherding people.” (32:26) — Jared Kirkwood
• “What you pour into your teams is what will overflow into their teams and will overflow into the church. So let’s just keep our eyes on Jesus.” (33:15) — Jared Kirkwood

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Jared’s Backstory & Mariners Overview: 03:23–05:57
• Mission, Strategy, and the Transformational Loop: 07:00–08:34
• Map vs. Menu—Staff Philosophy Shift: 09:22–11:06
• Teaching Calendar Planning & Execution: 12:32–15:28
• Multi-site Alignment (Tiered Events): 16:19–19:28
• Annual & Quarterly Planning Cadence: 20:09–21:39
• Evaluating Ministry—Garden Framework: 23:05–28:21
• Change Management / Recognizing “Weeds”: 29:40–31:47
• Innovation Guardrails & Shepherding Focus: 31:47–32:39
• Final Encouragement—Keeping the Main Thing the Main Thing: 33:15–34:45
• Online Strategy & Model: 35:04–36:26

Memorable Moments

• "Map, not a menu"—transformed how Mariners moves people toward growth.
• Garden metaphor for ministry evaluation: instantly accessible and practical for teams.
• Candid reflection on life groups as “problem trees” and rapid team restructuring to address it.
• Centralized clarity in a multi-site, multi-cultural context.

Where to Learn More

• Mariners Church online: @MarinersChurch (all channels)
• Jared Instagram: @JaredKirkwood
• Online teaching model: Mariners crafts unique online messages “direct to camera,” not just live-streams, to populate meaningful online communities.

Tone and Style

Friendly, direct, and deeply practical—Jared and Rich freely share successes and challenges, with a transparent, peer-to-peer tone and plenty of concrete examples. The conversation flows naturally, packed with frameworks and strategic guidance for church leaders seeking actionable ideas.

This summary provides a roadmap of the episode’s valuable insights and practical applications for church leaders eager to align growth, mission, and organizational clarity—without ever losing focus on shepherding people toward Jesus.