← unSeminary Podcast
unSeminary Podcast
Strong, Strained or Stuck: How Executive Pastors Can Build Trust in 2026 with Jeremy Peterson
00:36:31
Loading summary
Transcript43 lines
- [00:00]
A
Regardless of whether you've worked with your lead senior pastor for the last couple months or the last 10 years, something that has really changed my heart and my perspective and I think has really helped grow the relationship is just daily be in prayer for him or her.
- [00:20]
B
Growth pressure, staffing questions, facility decisions, and the emotional weight of leading teams. That's the world executive pastors are navigating right now. Today on the Unseminary podcast, we're sitting down with an executive pastor from a prevailing church to unpack what leaders like you shared in the national executive pastor survey so you can lead forward with clarity.
- [00:49]
C
Hey friends, welcome to the Unseminary podcast. We are in the middle of these special episodes we've been doing where we're reflecting back on what you said in the national executive pastor survey. And what we're doing is bringing executive pastors from prevailing churches on to really help us wrestle through some of the things that we saw and ultimately to provide some help for you as you launch here into 2026 today. It's our privilege to have the executive pastor of all executive pastors. Jeremy Peterson with us from One church is a fantastic church, a multi site church in northeastern United States. They have five, if I'm counting correctly, outpost locations in New Hampshire, plus church online, plus Jeremy's involved in leading xps, a great conference for executive pastors and campus pastors and he does all kinds of amazing stuff. So, Jeremy, welcome to the show. So glad you're here.
- [01:42]
A
It's quite the introduction. Thanks Rich for having me.
- [01:45]
C
Yeah, this is the problem. You become a more than one time guest and I'm like, what do I say? He's amazing. That's what you should say. Tell us a little bit about one church to set the context for people. Understand a little bit what your background, where you're at.
- [01:58]
A
Yeah. So I spent the first 17 years of ministry in Texas and I've been here for 12 and a half years now and it's, it's pretty wild. I said I would never be on the mission field. I grew up as a missionary kid and so being here I really feel like I am on the mission field. Been here 12 and a half years and we just celebrated like our 4,000th person that's been baptized since I've been here. And so it's just, it's just been quite the ride being a part of what God's doing and just trying not to mess it up.
- [02:28]
C
Yeah, it's so good. Well, this thing we're looking at today to kind of kick the conversation off. There was a stat that jumped out to me from our study. 22.32% of executive pastors, that's just over one in five, are either uncertain or experiencing strain with their lead pastor. Now, I know that that's a minority number. It's not like two thirds are, like, struggling with this. It's just over one in five. But to me, that's still a hauntingly large number. That one in five executive pastors we would bump into and say, I'm not sure that that relationship is working well. So I'd love to start the conversation there. Why do you think the lead pastor and executive pastor relationship, why is there kind of tension there? Why would people be experiencing that? And. And personally, I think, man, that relationship's got to be strong for the health of the church, but help us understand, maybe set the problem up for us. What do you think is going on there when that relationship is.
- [03:27]
A
Yeah, it's an interesting stat, Rich, because talking to a lot of executive pastors around the country like you do, I feel like that number may even be a little bit higher. I think surveys are incredibly helpful. But I feel like one of the biggest challenges or conversations that I'm having on a regular basis with other executive pastors is I'm not sure the lead pastor trusts me. Sometimes it's like I'm not sure that I trust my lead pastor. And so I think there's definitely a tension, which I think there are two roles that are so incredibly crucial for the church. You have either the senior or lead pastor who's really the one casting the vision, and you've got the executive pastor in that second role or that second chair that's really called to help execute on the vision. And when there's trust or mistrust, lack of trust, whatever it may be, that can cause a lot of, I think, tension and frustration if it's not. If it's not addressed in some capacity.
- [04:26]
C
Yeah. And I do get these calls as well. I. Sometimes what happens is I'll be talking to an executive pastor. Maybe I'm on site, and they'll pull me aside, and they'll say, you know, I just love my lead pastor. So fantastic. They're an amazing vision caster. They do such a great job, and then they rattle off all this real positive stuff, and then they'll say, but can you help me get better at this relationship? How do I. Or it'll be a lead pastor will pull me aside and say, oh, I just. I love the executive pastor here. And they'll Same thing. Rattle off. Person's so good at getting stuff done and they manage the team so well and never worry about money stuff. And. And then there's a but, but could you help me get better at that relationship? Like, it's like we're struggling around this. What would be some early signs in conversations that you're having that maybe there's. The trust is starting to erode a bit, that. That's drifting towards this kind of, ooh, this is. Things are not in a good place. What are some of the telltale signs in those conversations that you see? Ooh, we maybe have a trust problem here.
- [05:22]
A
Yeah. Trust is really interesting because I feel like really time builds trust. I mean, I feel like I usually kind of err on the side of like, hey, I'll trust you until you. Until you cause reasons to bring like untrust or whatever that may be or break the trust. Because it takes, I feel like time. Time is what really builds on trust, but it's something that can be also lost overnight. And so I think a few things that I've noticed over the years, as trust begins to erode, I think there's a few things that I would hit on. I think a few of them is just being consistent. So as an executive pastor, are you reliable? Are you dependable? Are you doing what you say you're going to do? Are you coming in with a calm spirit? Sometimes senior pastors or lead pastors can be all over the place. They can be upset or frustrated. And if you kind of come in as the constant, in the midst of a storm and. And you can kind of calm that down a little bit, I think that that's. That's really helpful. I think a big part of it is just. Is being truthful. So like in the consistency, are you being truthful? Because a senior pastor needs somebody who can speak the truth into them most. Most staff, even other. I think a lot of senior pastors, they're just not very trusting people by nature. And so I think when you have somebody who can speak truth into you, I think it actually starts developing and growing the trust. I feel like if you're. At the same time, I feel like if you're holding back all the truth, I feel like, like trust starts eroding over time if you're holding back some of the truth. So take something like weekly attendance, right? Senior pastors, lead pastors really, really care about seeing, like, about attendance. But if you are not being like fully truthful or transparent, little by little, if you start holding some of the information. The information is going to come out in some capacity. And, and so I think if you start holding onto that, that can start breaking or even eroding the trust over time. So I think that consistency is a huge thing. I think another part of it is. Oh, go ahead. Yeah.
- [07:30]
C
No, no, I was just gonna say it's amazing how. And what was that poem? Like, everything I learned about life, I learned in kindergarten. It's amazing though, how much just the core idea of like, do what you say, do what you said you were going to do. Like, it's. But it's amazing how for some leaders, we, they seem to struggle with that, that it's like you said you were gonna do this, like, why did you not do it? It's incredible. What else were you gonna say there?
- [07:52]
A
Oh, yeah. The other thing I was just gonna add is I think clarity is so crucial. You've been an executive pastor. I think sometimes we go into this like, problem solving mode and we're constantly trying to think of like, how do we solve this problem, how do we get in front of it? And so a lot of times we don't even have clarity even necessarily around what the senior pastor or lead pastor are trying to accomplish. And we've already gone into like, fix it mode before even we even have a full picture of like, what's trying to be accomplished. And if you're not constantly like syncing up in some capacity with a senior pastor, I think that that's where some of the trust can break over time. So, like, I have a standing lunch every single Monday, regardless of what's going on, unless we're on vacation, we get together and we sync up every single Monday to have a conversation. And I remember initially it was like, well, I don't know that I can commit to a, you know, weekly lunchtime and doing this. And so unless there's some random exception for us, Mondays is really that chance to be able to sync up, make sure that we're on the same page. And I think really in that time, kind of not only here, like, what's God placed on your heart, but building camaraderie. So like, and by camaraderie, I don't, I don't feel like in any sense like you as an executive pastor and lead pastor need to be best friends, but I feel like having some kind of common interest where you can spend some time together, you can have conversations that are not just work related, but a lot of it's also about like, hey, what's going on in your life? Like what's happening not just here at the church, but what's happening in your own life, what's going on, like, like being aware of those things. I think the more you can have those conversations, it's not just all about work all the time. I think that that helps build trust, builds that relationship with your senior lead pastor as well.
- [09:38]
C
Yeah, I'd love to come back to that. The kind of friendship, co worker relationship thing there. But you said something earlier that caught my attention. This idea of a standing lunch on Mondays. Are there any other in your relationship with boa? Part of why I was excited to talk to you about this is as an outsider, I perceive you guys are like, those guys seem to like working with each other. They're like, the fact that you've been there for 12 years and you continue to be there is a sign of that and vice versa. He continues to love working with you and it's a prevailing church. You guys are taking new ground Mondays lunchtime. That's a core behavior practice, intentional practice. Are there other things that you're doing as you think about engaging with him in a way that build trust or build that relationship?
- [10:18]
A
That's a great question. So I think two things is I will constantly drop into his office and have a five minute conversation or make a five minute phone call. I've realized that over the years how much time and probably pain I could have spared both of us had we just dropped in and had those conversations. And so kind of a best practice that we would have now is like, hey, pick up the phone and let's have a five minute conversation instead of like potentially hours on the back end of things that we may have to undo or repair just because, you know, you may have had a question, doubt, frustration, whatever it may have been, like, just go ahead and voice those things and let's have those conversations and then let's move on. Versus, like dwelling on it. Cause I think that's where the enemy does a really good job getting a foothold. And it's like, hey, if I can just create a little, little doubt or a little dissension here, then I can help break away and erode that trust.
- [11:12]
C
Yeah, that's good. Could you give me an example that's maybe not too close to home of what one of those five minute things would be? Because I think that's a good insight that like, hey, I should just like pick up the phone or drop by and like, hey, here's something. Either I heard, I can, I can see that, or I've Thought of a similar thing around, like, I see something that's getting going and I'm like, I could wait to meet with the executive team and everybody, or like, I really should just get my lead pastor's thoughts on where his head's at on this issue. Because if this thing gets too far down the road, yeah, you know, we could be causing pain. What would be some examples of the kind of things that you think those kind of five minute drop ins are helpful with?
- [11:47]
A
Yeah, I mean, something as simple is we were, we had. One of our locations was going from two services to three services. And so I had a conversation with the outpost pastor and we started talking through what those things are and we're like, yeah, these three times make sense. And we just kind of ran with it. And so in retrospect, you know, we, we start going to print. So we get to the point where it's like going on the website, it's going to print. And, and he asked me, he's like, what are these, what are these times? Like why, why did we land on these times? And so it was realizing that sometimes it's those simple things. But if you can constantly be dropping in, shoot a text, have a quick conversation, like the amount of things that we had to undo to fix something like that was big. Another thing that he's shifted a lot now. But early on, it would not be uncommon for say one of our student pastors to go up to him and say like, hey, I know you did student ministry back in the day. I'm thinking about doing this. And he would be like, that sounds like a great idea. Just go for it. Not thinking through like all the details and ramifications of what that looked like. And so next thing I know, I'm in a meeting with one of our student pastors and they're like, hey, Bo said that we should do this. And I'm like, hold the phone. Like, no, we're not, we're not doing that. And so having those short conversations, really trying to operate under the like the no surprise premise, which is what him and I operate under. Our elders operate under that as well. So we've kind of shared the same thing with our elders is like, hey, if you have questions or concerns, pick up the phone, make a call. Always choose to believe the best instead of assuming the worst.
- [13:21]
C
Yeah, that's good that, you know, speaking with weight, you know, that's always a shrewd move by staff to like, if I can just get the lead person to say, yeah, yeah, go do that, that's like a blank check. Well, Bo said, you know, I can imagine.
- [13:34]
A
Sign off on it. It's fine.
- [13:35]
C
It's fine. It's totally fine. We're buying the corporate jet. It's fine. Let's go back to the best friends versus co workers thing. I. I see that this is an interesting relationship, and I've had. I've had the privilege of working for three incredible lead pastors who I have really good, positive relationships with. And, you know, we got a lot of stuff done, moved a lot of stuff for the kingdom. And we're friendly. Like, we're. We were close, but we weren't like dudes. We were not like, you know, going to whatever dudes do. Like, you know, and. And so I sometimes had tension around in my own brain around, like, should I be more friendly with these people? I don't know. Help us understand, pull that apart. How. What do you think is healthy? What. What's kind of a minimum viable relationship? You know, how do we think through our, you know, that. That side of this. This relationship?
- [14:32]
A
Yeah, that's. That's a really. That's a. I think it's probably different for every senior executive pastor relationship, but I feel like there's some who think that they need to be best friends. So, like, every vacation, we do. Like, our families need to do this together, every hobby, like, we need to be a part of that together. What I'm also realizing is that there. There's probably some common interests that you share, and they may not be the same. So, like, your lead pastor may like to golf, you may not like to golf. I may really like to fish. He does not really care to fish. But there are common interests that we've realized over time. So a lot of that could be sports. Like, we follow one of the same college football teams. We both enjoy working out. And so being able to share some of the best practices in those areas. I think it is finding, like, where is there common ground and how can we have a conversation at the same time? I don't know how healthy it is for you to be best friends, because there are times where that could actually keep you from being fully truthful with them. In. In worries that you may, like, you may impact your relationship in some capacity. I think that's a dangerous place to be.
- [15:42]
C
That's good. How do you think. So we're really talking here about trust and how we're building trust. How are we trustworthy people with our lead pastor and are seen by being trustworthy with our lead pastor and then vice versa, how do we, you know, continue to try to, you know, choose trust with them and engage in a way? How do you think this idea of building trust ends up rippling into other relationships as we lead? As an executive pastor, I often think, you know, we end up in, we're in this really interesting kind of intersection of vision and execution. And so, you know, oftentimes I think lead pastors, when they're doing their job right, they are like a large portion of what they're doing is thinking about vision, about the future. And then our job is to figure out, okay, how does that actually, how do we make that work? And so we got to work with all these other relationships. What's the connection here around trust and relationships with our staff, with our staff teams, maybe younger staff, what's that look like?
- [16:38]
A
And I think it goes back to being truthful. If I over commit and under deliver, then I can only do that a couple of times before like trust will start to erode. And I've seen it times over the years where like somebody way over commits on this and they're like, no problem, we can do this and you know, we're going to have 10,000 people show up, but it's going to be amazing. And then you, you hype it up in such a way that then, then the event or the function, whatever it is, happens. And then all of a sudden you like, you feel like you way under delivered. You can only do that I think a few times before it starts to become like, man, I'm not sure, like, I know, I know Jeremy said he was going to do this, but like he keeps dropping the ball. He keeps committing that super high level and he's not executing at that level. I think that that starts impacting things. There's a, there's a great book out there that Stephen Covey wrote. He's probably both, probably most well known for the seven Habits of Highly Effective People, I think is the name of the book. Another book that's not as well known, but the book is called Speed of Trust. And it's a great reminder that like, the more you work on being synced up together, the more trust begins to grow, the faster you can actually move and operate as an organization and as an entity, the more that that is built. And so if you haven't had a chance to read it, fascinating read. It was really helpful for me to understand that like, the more truthful I am, the more consistent I am, the more clarity I'm providing and actually executing at that level, then the more Trust begins to build, and therefore it allows us to actually move at a pretty rapid pace the more that that foundation is built. And I think it impacts the staff as a whole. It's a little bit like the mom, dad relationship. Like, if there's tension or if they've, like, if there's been a fight or an argument, like, as kids, like, you can tell, like, something's wrong, like, what did dad say? Or why is mom upset with Dad? I think the staff can sense that if something is off between the two of you, they can start to begin to wonder, doubt, they can even begin to put in suspicious thoughts of man, something must be off here. Something's out of sync. And so I think that's a big part of it is just taking time, working on the relationship and then just watching it kind of like grow and blossom over time. But also I would encourage, like, if you're a new executive pastor to the role, just realize that, like, you can't buy time, time and investment over years. The things that you've learned. You know, we talk often here about like, failing fast and cheap because we feel like failure is actually needed to be able to accomplish what God's calling us to do. But, But I think if you're not truthful and transparent as that's happening, then, then it's not long before it starts catching up to you.
- [19:41]
C
That's good. That reminds me, one of the, you know, axioms I've talked about with our teams is, you know, there's. There's no bad information. There's just. Cause I think sometimes, like, something might go wrong. You might have an event, you might be a team member. You, you know, you busted something. It could be as simple as, you know, youth event. We had literally had this happen. We opened a brand new building and the very first youth event, there was a.
- [20:04]
A
Our.
- [20:04]
C
We had a go through the wall and it busted. Like it, you know, busted a wall. Like it's brand new building, $15 million build. Wow, this is amazing. You know, put a hole in the wall and, you know, there's no bad information. If what makes that hole in the wall worse is if we never hear about it and it gets covered up and someone puts a, you know, well, we'll just move this, you know, whatever. Some big poster. Yeah, put a poster in front of it or whatever. That just gets worse over time. Like, sure, there may be information we don't like, but there's no bad information. Like, we've got to be organizations that spread even bad news and you know, how we react. That was one of the times where I felt like, in that case, that instance I said was, I feel like, oh, like the Lord was with me. Because actually, I responded super well. I said to the guy, I'm like, this is why we bought this building. I'm so glad you had all these students here. You know, let's get it fixed and move forward. I did not like paying that bill, but, you know, it is.
- [21:01]
A
It is what it is, so.
- [21:02]
C
But we can't. If we create organizations that are trying to hide the truth, that are trying to hide information that will erode trust long term, and you move way slower to the speed of trust, you know, information there. So pivoting in a slightly different direction, but related, kind of an adjacent neighborhood of conversation. What are you learning about developing particularly trust with or building up team members, younger team members, newer team members at one church? What does that look like for you guys? How are you? How does that fit into this whole idea of building trust with people?
- [21:40]
A
That's a great question, Rich, because actually, we can talk about it if we have time. But the executive pastor summit this year specifically is really about leading up and empowering younger leaders. But can I just do a quick jump backwards before just. Just maybe this is a bonus thing. Regardless of whether you've worked with your lead senior pastor for the last couple months or the last 10 years, something that has really changed my heart and my perspective and I think has really helped grow the relationship is just daily be in prayer for him or her. I know that sounds very simple. Until about three years ago, I would pray for Bill on a regular basis, but it was just kind of like when I thought of it or on the way to work or Sunday morning.
- [22:27]
C
Big thing coming up, or.
- [22:28]
A
Yeah, here's a big thing coming up. But. But, man, the. The more we really challenge all of our staff to do this, but I know for myself, praying for him, praying for each of his kids by name, know where they're at in their life, relationships they're in, praying for his spouse. And I know he's doing the same thing. Like, I think that. That God really takes that, honors that, and he helps kind of build trust through that. And so just an encouragement to some of you, if you're, like, wrestling with this, if you're doubting, if you feel like the enemy's getting a foothold is my encouragement is, man, just take time every single day to pray for your senior lead pastor. And then I think that'll make a huge difference. So just want to put that in so I didn't forget about that on the top.
- [23:11]
C
So good. That's a great practical tactic for us around particularly, you know, you think about the, the lead pastor. There was a high percentage of these in this kind of one out of five that were really saying so it's 17.89 is the number of people of executive pastors that said that they feel neutral about their relationship with their lead pastor. And man, we don't want to feel neutral about this relationship. Like this can't be like it's fine. Like that's not good. That would be a great takeaway is say, hey, what if I was going to spend time every day praying for my lead pastor for what's going on in their world, for their, you know, for their spouse, for their kids, all of that. I think that's a great, great takeaway. That's a callback to a previous episode as well. I love and I know I've joked with you about this before when we had you and Beau on talking about multisite stuff last year and you know, I asked this question around how do you know the campus versus teams and like the classic multi site tension and um, and I've retold this story way too many times and you know, I'm like what do you guys do to fix this problem? And then Beau and his wise sort of way rolls out. They're like, well you know, I pray every day for every staff member and their, and their family. And I found that that has really helped. And I was like, literally I was like, okay, so I've been doing this for 20 years asking that question. Never, never once considered that. So I felt humbled. But that's a great, a great, you know, it's not just like. And I know that's what I love about you guys. It's not like you're not saying that from like, oh, just pray about it. It's like, no, this, let's actually add this as a part of our lives and discipline and see what the Lord will do. You know, I think it's amazing.
- [24:49]
A
And not to recap the whole thing but man, like our staff as a whole has been doing that the last four and a half months. Rich. And even the interaction, some of the past frustrations, it's crazy how much that's minimized, right? And just simply praying for, I mean we spend all this money to go to conferences and all this stuff and it's like, hey, how about here's a printed off name of everybody on staff, their spouse and their Kids, hey, just take 20 minutes a day and pray for them. It's like, oh yeah, I can, I guess I can do that as it doesn't cost much other than some time. So.
- [25:22]
C
But, well, and you start to see each other as humans right at the end of the day and you know, you start to be like, hey, this person's like, they're not just a task that needs to be done or, you know, they're not just whatever the next problem is that's going to come up. So yeah, that's a great practical takeaway. Well, let's pivot on that. I want to make sure, because I know that you can help leaders on this as well. As we think about younger leaders, what, you know, just ask a super wide open, what should we be thinking about? What are you thinking about? What are you wrestling with? Help us wrestle through that. You know, let's talk about that.
- [25:55]
A
Yeah. Something that's really been on my heart the last probably year and a half is how do we empower younger leaders? And so I'm not sure who sits around like your, you know, your decision making team, but God really put it in our heart several years back to start a residency program and really pour into some of these younger leaders. Because I know people took a risk on people like you and I at some point when we were in our 20s and didn't really know what we're doing and we made some dumb things. Like I think I made multiple holes in multiple walls, which the senior pastor was like very forgiving at the time about it. But I just love that we get an opportunity to really pour into, invest and actually empower and put some trust even behind some of these residents that they're going from. Like, okay, I've learned these things in school. I have this head knowledge of things, but from a practical standpoint, what does that really look like? And so, so knowing that we were going to have this conversation, actually sat down with one of our first year residents just to kind of hear what their experience has been so far because I wanted to hear like the positives, the negatives and kind of what their insight was. But, but a few things that he shared, shared with me was like, I love that you guys allow us to fail. Like, I've been at other jobs, I've been at other jobs before where it's like, if something happens to me, if I miss it, then it could be like, hey, you're going to get written up for this. And for us it's really trying to create that culture of like you are allowed to fail. You're allowed to try things. We talk about failing fast and cheap. We hope it doesn't cost us a lot. But ultimately like that's a safe place in the residency to be able to be. Another thing he said was like, I've been challenged to say yes to opportunities. And I was like, well, yeah, tell me a little bit more about that. And he's like, no, usually kind of like you pick and choose, you know. Well, yeah, I want to say yes to this one, but I don't want to say yes to this. And he's like, I'm in my early 20s, like, why would I not say yes to all these different opportunities? He's like, I really want to be scrappy. And I'm like, well, tell me more, tell me more about that. He's like, no, I really want to be like more of a utility, like multi tool staffer. And in my mind I'm like, okay, I appreciate the hustle and this younger resident because he's already talking about like, okay, how do we create a staffing position for him. But I also think realizing that, you know, he said, if I get an opportunity to preach, I'm going to take the opportunity to preach. If I get the opportunity to host, I want to take the opportunity to host. If I don't have anything that weekend, then I'm going to see if I can serve with our production team and kind of learn the behind the scenes side of things so that I can help with that anywhere that's needed. And so I love this idea that they're willing to say yes, they're willing to take some risks knowing that the team believes in them. And so for us, and I think for me specifically, it's been okay. Who do I see being a part of our leadership decision making team in the years ahead? And I know for, you know, if the average age in the room is like, say in their mid-40s, like to bring in a early mid 20 year old is like, wait a second, like what is this, you know, what is this kid going to say to us? I think they provide some incredibly fresh perspective on what we're actually doing. Well, things that we should do differently and just ways that we can continue to like really empower them, challenge them, put them in positions that may make them feel uncomfortable. Like we have some that have, are like almost deathly afraid of having, you know, being on stage and talk, talking to somebody. But like give an opportunity to, to get in there host. I mean, hosting's two, three minutes but get an opportunity to get on stage, just kind of like, you know, put a little fire under them and see how they do and just watch them grow. And I'm always shocked, and I shouldn't be shocked because we've been doing the residency for a while. But how many of them not only step up into the challenge but then actually go beyond our expectations?
- [29:50]
C
Right. That's so good. I think this is a critically important for us to lean in on. In the last year I've been struck. I was with a lot of different churches, but there were two in particular that stood out to me. These are like prevailing churches, folks that are listening, listening in, if you were listening. They're like name brand churches, you know, these people. And the thing that stood out to me was I was having, in both of them, I just happened to be having a kind of a meeting with leadership, meeting with the folks that were actually operational leaders of a whole bunch of different departments. It was like a kind of a cross section of team leaders. And I was pleasantly surprised with how young that crowd was. Like I looked around the room and I was like, man, these people are all in their late 20s, early 30s and they're running departments that are larger than, you know, the majority of churches in the country. You know, they've, they've got, you know, 15 staff reporting to them. They've, you know, managing multimillion dollars of budgets and, and these are prevailing churches. Now I don't think that that is coincidence. I think both of those churches have unlocked something and have realized, wait a second, we have to pass this thing on to the next generation. So when you think about the residency, kind of talk to us about the residency program, what does that look like and how did you get into that? How did that kind of get that ball get rolling? Help us understand, maybe there's someone who's listening in today's thinking, maybe that's something, a step we should take in this coming year.
- [31:17]
A
Yeah, so it's actually a retired baseball player who's actually going to be at XPS this year. I'm going to do an interview with him because now that he's retired, he's still coaching, but the like now it's kind of coaching up the double A and AAA players as they're coming in and they're moving up to the major leagues. But he really challenged us because we told him that staffing was one of the biggest challenges, especially in, in the New England area. There's not a lot of people that feel called to be up here. This close to Canada, which I know you're in Canada, but they're like, maybe if we can be further south, like a little more comfortable. But for us, we realized that staffing was a challenge. And for us he really challenged us to start a residency. And the residency, it's either a one or two year residency and you come on, you come in, you have two areas of focus and so it could be say worship and production. And you'll spend six months with each of those areas really kind of hands on. And so if you're showing up here, you're actually like, you will be on stage leading worship, you will be helping run production, whether it's for our online service or at one of our outposts. But we really try to give as many hands on opportunities as possible. As somebody who went to seminary, I think I had one class called practical ministry and it was like, here's one semester on, you know, how to do weddings, how to do funerals. But not a whole lot of hands on experience unless I was volunteering at a church. And so for us it's really trying to take, hey, here's some things that I've learned like from a practical standpoint, but like actually let's actually see them like live, happening in real time and get an opportunity to be able to see like, hey, is this something that God's even really calling me to and how can I use the gifts that he's given me to further the kingdom?
- [33:03]
C
Yeah, it's so good. Love that. Well, we've kind of referenced XPs. So xpsummit.org this is a conference that you are the grand content poobah for. Talk to us about XPS this year. This is to me is a must attend event. Talk to us about it and where is it, all those kind of details this year.
- [33:23]
A
Yeah, sure. It's May 4th through 6th in Dallas Fort Worth and typically we'll have 150 to 175 executive pastors from different size of churches around the country. And I appreciate the comment Rich, but really my goal is to get the people that are there with the content, people like you and other leaders who really want to come and pour into other executive pastors. And so yeah, so if you, whether you live in the area or you just want a data hangout with some incredible leaders, Rich is going to be there, I'll be there. And like I said, you can go to xpsummit.org and you can see some of the keynote speakers as well as some of the breakout leaders.
- [34:04]
C
Yeah, it's so good. Well, Jeremy, just as we wrap up today's episode, bit of a curveball question here. As you think about 2026 at one church, what's a question or two that's on your mind that you're like, here's some stuff that we're thinking about, doesn't have to do with anything we're talking about today. It could be just anything that you're thinking about this year. You're wrestling through thinking, I wonder what that's going to look like in this, this coming year.
- [34:29]
A
Man, I was not expecting that question. One thing I've been praying about is I think we're going to start seeing a shift in different parts of the country where we may have people that are more of like a, like a tent maker role in ministry, where I think there's an incredible opportunity to do things in like the business sector but at the same time still work in the church using some of the gifts that God's empowered you with. And so I could see a shift happening where we have more of the tent making. It's crazy to me that it's been like less than 100 years since the church has actually had like paid full time staff and not only paid full time staff, but multiple staff. And so I think, I think we could see a shift there. I think a lot of it's just going to be trying to be, in the words of one of our residents, how to be a little more scrappy and really looking for staff that is not just focused on one specific area, but somebody who is a utility player that's like, hey, I can help out in these four or five different areas instead of just being like, I have this one skill set that I can bring. I think those are two things that are going to make a huge impact in the church in 2026.
- [35:39]
C
That's great. Thanks so much, Jeremy. I appreciate you being on today. If people want to track with one church, where do we want to send them online to track with you guys?
- [35:48]
A
Just go to Church one a little bit different of a website, but yeah, they can go there and you can find my email address if you want to email me or if we can serve you in any way. I know for our elders, Bo, our senior pastor, we love serving the local church as a whole. And so if you're in the area or if you want to come and hang out with us for a few days, shoot me an email and we'd love to host you guys.
- [36:10]
C
Great, thanks so much. Thanks for being here today, sir.