Podcast
Unveiling Mormonism
Hosted by PursueGOD · EN
Join Ross Anderson and Bryan Dwyer, pastors with over 50 years of combined ministry experience in Utah, as they take a deep dive on everything Mormon – from theology to history to culture. New topic every Monday.
31episodes
Episodes
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Why We Don’t Need Modern Temples (Hebrews 7)
Yesterday00:08:40Tap to summarizeThe New Covenant isn't a restoration of ancient temple rituals or a performance-based "covenant path," but a relationship with the person of Jesus who already finished the work for us. When He sat down at the right hand of God, He ended the "waiting game" of religious worthiness and opened the veil for everyone to enter His rest. --The Unveiling Mormonism podcast pulls back the curtain on Mormon history, culture and doctrine. Join us for new episodes every Monday. Find resources to talk about these episodes at pursueGOD.org/mormonism.Help others go "full circle" as a follower of Jesus through our 12-week Pursuit series.Click here to learn more about how to use these resources at home, with a small group, or in a one-on-one discipleship relationship.Got questions or want to leave a note? Email us at podcast@pursueGOD.org.Donate Now--Are We There Yet? Finding Rest in the New CovenantMany of us grew up feeling like we were on a spiritual road trip that never quite reached its destination. In the backseat of faith, we constantly ask, "Are we there yet? Am I worthy enough? Have I done enough?" For those coming from a background in Latter-day Saint (LDS) theology, this feeling is often amplified by the teaching that we live in a "restoration" of ancient patterns—new temples, new rituals, and a "covenant path" that can feel more like a performance-based contract than a relationship.However, the book of Hebrews offers a "game-changer" for anyone exhausted by the waiting game. The Word of God shows us that the destination isn't a future point of perfection we reach through our own effort; the destination has already been reached in the person of Jesus Christ.From Contracts to CovenantsIn our daily lives, we understand contracts: "I do this, you do that, and if one of us fails, the deal is off." It is purely transactional. A covenant, in the biblical sense, is relational—like a marriage. It is God saying, "I will be your God, and you will be my people."While many religious systems turn the "covenant path" into a contract—where blessings are earned through tithing, temple attendance, and dietary codes—the New Covenant flips the script. It isn't about what you do to stay on the path; it’s about what Jesus did to become the path.The Fulfillment of Every PromiseThe Old Testament is a series of layers building toward a climax. Jesus didn't just add another layer; He fulfilled them all:The Noahic Covenant: God promised never to destroy the earth again, symbolized by a "war bow" pointed toward heaven. Jesus took the arrow of that judgment upon Himself.The Abrahamic Covenant: God promised a "seed" to bless all nations. Jesus is that promised seed.The Mosaic Covenant (The Law): This was a conditional covenant that Israel failed to keep. The sacrificial system acted like a "credit card statement"—it showed the debt of sin but could never pay it off.The Sacrifice That Ended All SacrificesHebrews 10:12 provides a direct challenge to the idea that we need to restore ancient temple rituals: "But our High Priest offered himself to God as a single sacrifice for sins, good for all time. Then he sat down."In the ancient Tabernacle, there were no chairs because a priest's work was never finished. The fact that Jesus sat down is a beautiful, definitive statement. If His sacrifice was good for all time, we no longer need animal sacrifices or modern temples with veils. When Jesus died, the veil was torn, signifyng that the "waiting game" is over.Living in the "Already and Not Yet"We still live in a broken world where we struggle with sin and sickness. Theologians call this the "already and not yet." Our sins are already forgiven and the debt is paid, but the world is not yet fully made new.The difference for a believer is the move from anxiety to assurance. We aren't waiting to see if our check clears at the bank of heaven; the check has already cleared. We are simply waiting for the final statement. You don't need a temple; through the Holy Spirit, you are the temple. You don't need to earn your way; Jesus is the way. It’s time to step out of the car and enter His rest.
Transcribe →Beyond the Veil: Accessing God Without a Middleman (Hebrews 6)
1w ago00:10:24Tap to summarizeIn this episode, we look at chapter 6 in Hebrews to discover how Jesus serves as the ultimate High Priest, retiring human gatekeepers and removing every ladder between you and the presence of God.--The Unveiling Mormonism podcast pulls back the curtain on Mormon history, culture and doctrine. Join us for new episodes every Monday. Find resources to talk about these episodes at pursueGOD.org/mormonism.Help others go "full circle" as a follower of Jesus through our 12-week Pursuit series.Click here to learn more about how to use these resources at home, with a small group, or in a one-on-one discipleship relationship.Got questions or want to leave a note? Email us at podcast@pursueGOD.org.Donate Now--The End of Gatekeepers: Understanding Priesthood in HebrewsFor many, especially those coming from a Latter-day Saint background, the word priesthood is synonymous with a ladder of authority—a series of offices, keys, and lineages required to act in God's name. In this view, the Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods are essential roles that men must hold to administer ordinances and bridge the gap between God and man.However, a "crash course" in the Book of Hebrews reveals a radically different story. In the Bible, the priesthood isn't a ladder you climb to get more authority; it is the story of how God removed every ladder so you could finally walk directly into His presence.The Tabernacle: A "Keep Out" SignIn the Old Testament, the priesthood system served as much as a barrier as it did a bridge. The Tabernacle was designed in layers—the outer court, the Holy Place, and finally, the Most Holy Place. This innermost room, representing God’s presence, was strictly restricted. Only the high priest could enter, and only once a year with a sacrifice. As Hebrews 9:8 explains, this system was designed to show that the way into the holiest place was not yet freely open.The Problem with the Aaronic SystemWhile many are taught that the Aaronic priesthood is a necessary office for today, Hebrews describes it as a "shadow system." Hebrews 7:18 goes as far as to call these Old Testament regulations "weak and useless" because they could never truly clear a person's conscience. They were a temporary fix that became obsolete the moment the true High Priest, Jesus, arrived.The Untransferable Priesthood of MelchizedekThe most significant point of tension lies in the Melchizedek priesthood. In the LDS tradition, this is a higher office given to many men. But Hebrews 7:24 says that Jesus holds His priesthood permanently because He lives forever. The Greek term used here implies that His priesthood is untransferable—it does not pass from one person to another.If Jesus’ priesthood cannot be transferred, then no other man—past or present—can hold it. Jesus didn't come to restore a priesthood for men to hold; He came to be the Priest so that human mediators would no longer be necessary.The Veil is TornWhen Jesus finished His sacrifice on the cross, the massive curtain in the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. This was God’s "Emancipation Proclamation," signaling that the restricted zone is now open to everyone.Today, we don't need a human gatekeeper, a temple recommend, or a specific office to reach God. Because of Jesus, every believer is part of a "royal priesthood" (1 Peter 2:9). We are invited to come boldly to the throne of grace, not because of our own authority or a certificate, but because of the finished work of Jesus Christ.
Transcribe →The Permission to Grow: Leaving Spiritual Infancy Behind (Hebrews 5)
2w ago00:10:51Tap to summarizeIn this episode, we explore the shift from a system where the thinking is done for you to the "solid food" of studying the Bible for yourself. Drawing from Hebrews 5, we discuss the stinging rebuke to those who remain spiritually "dull" and why it’s time to move past the milk to a direct, living relationship with Jesus. It’s time to stop being a consumer of a religious institution and finally launch into the mission of God.--The Unveiling Mormonism podcast pulls back the curtain on Mormon history, culture and doctrine. Join us for new episodes every Monday. Find resources to talk about these episodes at pursueGOD.org/mormonism.Help others go "full circle" as a follower of Jesus through our 12-week Pursuit series.Click here to learn more about how to use these resources at home, with a small group, or in a one-on-one discipleship relationship.Got questions or want to leave a note? Email us at podcast@pursueGOD.org.Donate Now--Failure to Launch: Moving from Milk to MeatIn 2018, the story of Michael Rotondo went viral—a 30-year-old man sued by his parents because he refused to move out, pay rent, or help around the house. A judge finally had to step in and order him to "launch." While we laugh at the absurdity, the author of Hebrews delivers a similar stinging rebuke to believers who have been in the faith for years but are still "spiritually living in their parents' basement."The Danger of Spiritual InfancyFor those coming out of the LDS Church, this passage hits a specific nerve. Many have spent decades in a system that often keeps members in a state of perpetual spiritual infancy, relying on a central organization to dictate what to think, what to eat, and how to interpret every verse of Scripture. When the "thinking has been done for you," spiritual muscles atrophy.In Hebrews 5:11-14, the author stops a deep theological discussion on Melchizedek to sigh: "You are spiritually dull and don't seem to listen." The Greek word for "dull" is nothros, meaning sluggish or lazy. Maturity requires moving past "predigested" milk to the "heavy meat" of the Word.How to Study for YourselfBiblical maturity requires Inductive Bible Study. Instead of "proof-texting"—searching for verses to confirm what a leader has already said—true study follows three steps:Observation: What does the text actually say? (Not what a manual says it says).Interpretation: What did it mean to the original audience?Application: How does this change my life today?From Consumer to ContributorMaturity isn't just about knowledge; it's about discernment. Hebrews 5:14 says the mature have "trained themselves" (gymnaso—the root of "gymnasium"). It’s about learning to recognize right and wrong based on the character of God, not just a handbook of instructions.The "mic drop" moment of the passage is this: "You have been believers so long now that you ought to be teaching others." The goal of the Christian life isn't just self-improvement; it's multiplication. The cure for spiritual dullness isn't more consumption—it's contribution. We don't mentor others to become worthy; we do it because Jesus is worthy, and He has already transferred His perfection to our account.It's time to stop being a consumer and start being a contributor. The eviction notice is on the door: it's time to grow up and launch.
Transcribe →Soul Surgery: Letting the Word of God Heal Your Hidden Heart (Hebrews 4)
3w ago00:12:02Tap to summarizeIn a culture often focused on maintaining a perfect outward appearance, the Word of God serves as a precise scalpel that penetrates past our masks to expose the hidden motives of the heart. This isn't a process of condemnation, but a necessary surgery led by our High Priest, Jesus, who was pierced for our transgressions so that we could be truly healed.--The Unveiling Mormonism podcast pulls back the curtain on Mormon history, culture and doctrine. Join us for new episodes every Monday. Find resources to talk about these episodes at pursueGOD.org/mormonism.Help others go "full circle" as a follower of Jesus through our 12-week Pursuit series.Click here to learn more about how to use these resources at home, with a small group, or in a one-on-one discipleship relationship.Got questions or want to leave a note? Email us at podcast@pursueGOD.org.Donate Now--
Transcribe →Why Jesus Is The G.O.A.T. (Hebrews 3)
4w ago00:13:54Tap to summarize--The Unveiling Mormonism podcast pulls back the curtain on Mormon history, culture and doctrine. Join us for new episodes every Monday. Find resources to talk about these episodes at pursueGOD.org/mormonism.Help others go "full circle" as a follower of Jesus through our 12-week Pursuit series.Click here to learn more about how to use these resources at home, with a small group, or in a one-on-one discipleship relationship.Got questions or want to leave a note? Email us at podcast@pursueGOD.org.Donate Now--
Transcribe →Why Did Jesus Have to Become Human? (Hebrews 2)
Apr 1400:17:11Tap to summarizeIn this episode, we unpack seven powerful reasons for the incarnation, showing how Jesus didn’t just make salvation possible—He came down to accomplish it.--The Unveiling Mormonism podcast pulls back the curtain on Mormon history, culture and doctrine. Join us for new episodes every Monday. Find resources to talk about these episodes at pursueGOD.org/mormonism.Help others go "full circle" as a follower of Jesus through our 12-week Pursuit series.Click here to learn more about how to use these resources at home, with a small group, or in a one-on-one discipleship relationship.Got questions or want to leave a note? Email us at podcast@pursueGOD.org.Donate Now--Why Did Jesus Have to Become Human? (Hebrews 2)Last week we explored the “cosmic Jesus”—the Creator and Sustainer of all things, the exact imprint of God’s nature. But Hebrews 2 brings the focus down from the throne of the universe to the dust of humanity, asking a deeply personal and essential question: Why did Jesus have to become human?In this episode, we unpack seven powerful reasons for the incarnation straight from Hebrews 2. Jesus became human to represent us, to take on a body capable of dying so He could pay for our sin, and to decisively break the power of the devil through His death. He didn’t just make a way for us to save ourselves—He accomplished the work fully and finally.We also explore how Jesus frees us from the fear of death, becoming not just a distant Savior but our compassionate High Priest who understands our struggles firsthand. As both fully God and fully man, He is the perfect bridge between us and God—the priest who is also the sacrifice. And because He experienced real temptation and suffering, He is able to help us in our daily battles with sin and doubt.This conversation also highlights a key contrast between biblical Christianity and Mormon theology. Rather than a system where we climb a ladder of effort and obedience to reach God, Hebrews presents a radically different picture: God came down to us. The incarnation isn’t about Jesus progressing to something greater—it’s about God rescuing humanity.If you’ve ever felt like God is distant, or wondered if you’ve done enough to be accepted, this episode offers hope. Jesus didn’t come to help you earn salvation—He came to be your salvation. The ladder didn’t go up. It came down.
Transcribe →Is Jesus Enough? (Hebrews 1)
Apr 700:17:22Tap to summarizeIn this powerful series premiere, we kick off a nine-week deep dive into the Book of Hebrews—a text that serves as "ground zero" for anyone standing at the crossroads between religious systems and the person of Jesus Christ. For those navigating the "covenant path" of the LDS Church, the pull of tradition, community, and structured "plan of salvation" charts can be overwhelming. However, the author of Hebrews dismantles the need for "precept upon precept" by presenting a theological sledgehammer: Jesus is not a step in your progression; He is the end of it. We explore how the first four verses of Hebrews redefine revelation, replace fragments with fullness, and introduce a Savior who didn't just come to help—He came to finish the work and sit down.Key Themes & Discussion PointsThe Gravity of "Better"The First-Century Crisis: Understanding the original audience—Jewish believers in AD 65 tempted to retreat from the "shame" of the cross back to the safety and tangibility of the Temple.The Modern Parallel: For those leaving the LDS faith, the "vacuum of tradition" is real. We discuss the temptation to keep Jesus "in your pocket" while still clinging to the shadows of the old system for comfort.Fragments vs. The FullnessThe Slow-Release Trailer: Historically, God spoke through prophets in "many times and many ways" (dreams, bushes, still small voices).The Final Word: Hebrews 1:1-2 declares that God has now spoken "in Son." If Jesus is the final period at the end of God’s sentence, the need for "continuous revelation" or additional volumes of scripture is rendered obsolete. Why use a flashlight when the sun has risen?The Anatomy of a God: The Seven Attributes We contrast the "Elder Brother" Christology of Mormonism with the majestic, uncreated Christ of Hebrews 1:The Heir: He is the "Why" behind the universe, not one of many potential heirs to "worlds without end."The Creator: As the agent of creation (aionas), He stands outside of time and "progression."The Radiance: He is the light flowing from God, not a reflection of it.The Expression: The charaktēr (exact imprint) of God’s essence. This challenges the "separate beings" doctrine.The Sustainer: He holds your very atoms together by His word, not by learned priesthood keys.The Savior: "After making purification..." — a finished action in the past tense.The Ruler: He sat down. In a system where the work is never done (no chairs in the Temple), Jesus signals total victory by taking His seat.Addressing the "Cheap Grace" ObjectionThe distinction between doing "works" to get to Jesus versus "works" as an act of worship because of Jesus.The mathematical reality: "Jesus + Anything = Nothing." Adding to the finished work of Christ is a subtraction of its power.Memorable Quotes"If you are a Mormon today and you are tired... it’s because you are trying to stand up where Jesus has already sat down.""Jesus is not a 'great addition' to your life. He isn't a 'step' in a progression. Jesus is the End."Scripture ReferencesHebrews 1:1-4 (The Exordium)D&C 130:22 (Contrast regarding the nature of God)TakeawayIf Jesus is who Hebrews says He is, He isn't just "better" than your old life—He is everything. You don't need a middleman, a recommend, or a correlation committee. You need the Son. Stop trying to earn a place in a kingdom that already belongs to the Heir. Look at the Seated King, and finally... just breathe.--The Unveiling Mormonism podcast pulls back the curtain on Mormon history, culture and doctrine. Join us for new episodes every Monday. Find resources to talk about these episodes at pursueGOD.org/mormonism.Help others go "full circle" as a follower of Jesus through our 12-week Pursuit series.Click here to learn more about how to use these resources at home, with a small group, or in a one-on-one discipleship relationship.Got questions or want to leave a note? Email us at podcast@pursueGOD.org.Donate NowHebrews (Series) - pursueGOD.org
Transcribe →Blood Atonement and the Prophet’s Authority
Mar 3100:45:50Tap to summarizeIn this episode, AJ and Brandi return to the studio to dive into one of the most jarring and controversial chapters of Mormon history: the Doctrine of Blood Atonement. AJ recounts the "shelf-breaking" moment at BYU when he first discovered that early prophets—specifically Brigham Young—taught that certain sins were beyond the reach of Jesus Christ’s sacrifice, requiring the sinner to shed their own blood for salvation. The discussion explores the massive disconnect between 19th-century Mormonism and modern LDS teachings, the theological implications of a "prophet who can lead you astray," and how the biblical definition of atonement offers a stark, grace-filled contrast to the works-heavy requirements of the LDS faith.Key Discussion Points1. The Discovery and the "Shelf"The BYU Moment: AJ shares how a simple student question in a Book of Mormon class led to a dismissive response from a professor, sparking a late-night research session that left him "sick to his stomach."The Infallibility Crisis: Growing up with the song "Follow the Prophet," AJ was taught that a prophet could never lead the church astray. Discovering Blood Atonement shattered this belief, as he realized a prophet had taught something he considered the "antithesis of the gospel."2. Defining Blood AtonementThe Core Doctrine: Taught primarily by Brigham Young and Jedediah Grant in the 1850s, it suggested that sins like murder, apostasy, and adultery were so "grievous" that Christ’s blood was insufficient to cover them.Literal vs. Rhetorical: While some modern apologists argue the language was metaphorical, historians (including faithful LDS scholars like Richard Turley) acknowledge instances where the doctrine was taken literally and carried out.The Motivation: Ironically, it was framed as an act of "love"—shedding a person's blood to save their soul from eternal damnation.3. The Changing Narrative at BYUInoculation vs. Secrecy: Brandy and AJ discuss the shift in how the Church handles "difficult" history. While AJ’s generation faced silence and "weirdness" from professors, younger generations are being "properly inoculated" with the information early to prevent future shocks.The Internet Factor: The group agrees that the transparency isn't necessarily a choice but a necessity in the information age; the Church can no longer "cover up" what is easily accessible on Wikipedia or historical archives.4. Biblical Atonement vs. LDS AtonementWhere it Happened: The guests note the cultural Mormon emphasis on Gethsemane as the primary site of atonement, whereas the Bible and traditional Christianity point to the Cross.Sufficiency: The biblical view (e.g., Colossians 1:20, Hebrews 9:22) asserts that Jesus’ sacrifice was "finished" and all-sufficient.The "Ladder" Analogy: Brandy describes the LDS view of Christ providing a "ladder" that the believer must then climb through obedience, whereas the biblical view is that Jesus is the way, not just a provider of the means to work.Notable Quotes"I can no longer in good faith ever say the prophet can't lead you astray because I have a clear example of that happening here." — AJ"Mormonism blinds people to the gospel. When you say things like 'trust alone for Jesus's righteousness,' they're going to go, 'That's too easy.'" — Brandi"If the president of the church should ever lead people astray, God would take him away... So when you learn of something like blood atonement, it is so damaging." — AJResources MentionedBooks: Vengeance is Mine: The Mountain Meadows Massacre and Its Aftermath by Barbara Brown Jones and Richard Turley.Podcasts: Sunstone Mormon History Podcast, Mormon Stories.Websites: MRM.org (Mormonism Research Ministry), PursueGod.org.Scripture References1 John 1:9: Confession and cleansing from all unrighteousness.Hebrews 9:22: The necessity of the shedding of blood for remission.Colossians 1:20: Peace made through the blood of the cross.John 19:30: "Tetelestai" — It is finished.--The Unveiling Mormonism podcast pulls back the curtain on Mormon history, culture and doctrine. Join us for new episodes every Monday. Find resources to talk about these episodes at pursueGOD.org/mormonism.Help others go "full circle" as a follower of Jesus through our 12-week Pursuit series.Click here to learn more about how to use these resources at home, with a small group, or in a one-on-one discipleship relationship.Got questions or want to leave a note? Email us at podcast@pursueGOD.org.Donate NowMormonism Archives - pursueGOD.orgConnect with Brandi on Instagram
Transcribe →American Quran: The Surprising Parallels Between Joseph Smith and Muhammad
Mar 2400:16:13Tap to summarizeIn this episode, Bryan unpacks the striking parallels between Mormonism and Islam to show how both systems ultimately shift the focus away from the finished work of Jesus and back onto human effort, contrasting it with the true gospel of grace found in the Bible.--The Unveiling Mormonism podcast pulls back the curtain on Mormon history, culture and doctrine. Join us for new episodes every Monday. Find resources to talk about these episodes at pursueGOD.org/mormonism.Help others go "full circle" as a follower of Jesus through our 12-week Pursuit series.Click here to learn more about how to use these resources at home, with a small group, or in a one-on-one discipleship relationship.Got questions or want to leave a note? Email us at podcast@pursueGOD.org.Donate Now--This episode takes a deeper look at the striking parallels between Mormonism and Islam, highlighting how both begin with the claim that the original message of Christianity was corrupted and needed to be restored. Each introduces a new prophet—Joseph Smith and Muhammad—along with new scriptures revealed through angelic encounters, ultimately reshaping core biblical truths about who Jesus is and how salvation works. The conversation walks through how these systems, while different in many ways, both shift the focus away from the finished work of Christ and toward human effort, obedience, and religious performance.Grounding the discussion in passages like Galatians 1 and Ephesians 2, this episode challenges listeners to examine the reliability and sufficiency of the Bible and the true gospel message. Rather than needing a restored or updated version of Christianity, Scripture points us back to the once-for-all revelation of Jesus. The takeaway is clear and encouraging: salvation is not something we achieve through striving, but something we receive by grace through faith. In a world full of competing truth claims, this episode helps clarify why the gospel of Jesus stands alone—and why it’s still enough today.
Transcribe →Mormon Danites: Secret Society, Blood Oaths
Mar 1700:14:44Tap to summarizeThis episode uncovers the history of the secretive Danite group in early Mormonism and contrasts their use of intimidation and violence with the radically different way of Jesus, whose kingdom advances through truth, not force.--The Unveiling Mormonism podcast pulls back the curtain on Mormon history, culture and doctrine. Join us for new episodes every Monday. Find resources to talk about these episodes at pursueGOD.org/mormonism.Help others go "full circle" as a follower of Jesus through our 12-week Pursuit series.Click here to learn more about how to use these resources at home, with a small group, or in a one-on-one discipleship relationship.Got questions or want to leave a note? Email us at podcast@pursueGOD.org.Donate Now--In this episode, we explore a little-known chapter of early Mormon history: the rise of the Danites, a secret group formed in 1838 during the Missouri conflict. Recently published historical documents have confirmed that this group existed and operated as a kind of paramilitary society within early Mormonism, using secret oaths and intimidation to silence dissenters—even other Mormons.We also examine how religious movements can drift when loyalty to leaders begins to outweigh commitment to truth and biblical principles. Looking at passages like 2 Corinthians 10:3–4 and John 18:36, the episode contrasts the violent methods used by the Danites with the way of Jesus, whose kingdom advances not through force but through truth, humility, and sacrificial love.Ultimately, this conversation reminds us that God’s kingdom doesn’t need secrecy, intimidation, or violence to advance. Jesus didn’t ask for secret oaths or blind allegiance—He gave His life so that people could be free and walk in the light of truth.
Transcribe →