13 | To Risk, We Must

Summary

Up and Vanished - Episode 13: "To Risk, We Must"

Release Date: September 6, 2024
Host: Payne Lindsey
Production: Tenderfoot TV

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Introduction

In Episode 13 of Up and Vanished, titled "To Risk, We Must," host Payne Lindsey delves deeper into the mysterious disappearance of Joseph Balderas from Nome, Alaska. This episode meticulously examines the inconsistencies surrounding Joseph's vanishing and places significant scrutiny on his roommate, Jake, as potential suspect. Through interviews, investigative efforts, and critical analysis, Payne uncovers layers of deceit and unanswered questions that keep the case unresolved eight years later.

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Overview of the Case

Joseph Balderas, a 36-year-old Alaska Native, disappeared under perplexing circumstances from the Blackfeet Nation Indian Reservation. Despite extensive searches, including aerial grids and ground patrols, no concrete evidence has surfaced to explain his disappearance. Joseph's family remains convinced that foul play is involved, suspecting either a crime perpetrated against him or negligence by local law enforcement.

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Key Witness: Jake, the Roommate

Jake, Joseph’s roommate, emerges as a pivotal figure in the investigation. Several contradictions and suspicious behaviors by Jake have raised red flags:

• Alibi Inconsistencies: Jake initially claimed that he was out with friends on the night Joseph disappeared but later stated he saw Joseph the next morning walking down the hallway at their residence. Payne questions the validity of this statement, highlighting that if Jake were truthful, Joseph would have been ignoring others, which contradicts his usual behavior (Payne Lindsay, 05:00).

• Attempted Alibi Fabrication: Phone records revealed that Jake was texting friends to create an alibi for his whereabouts on the night of Joseph's disappearance. Payne probes, asking, “Why would somebody be doing that?” (Payne Lindsay, 06:11).

• Reluctance to Cooperate: Payne recounts his frustration in attempting to engage with Jake, who consistently avoided answering calls and refused to provide meaningful information (Payne Lindsay, 23:43).

Notable Quote:

"If Jake was hiding something? Well, what exactly could it be?" – Payne Lindsey [05:04]

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Interviews with Joseph's Family

Payne conducts heartfelt interviews with Joseph's sister, Selena, and his mother, Nelda, who express profound grief and frustration over the lack of progress in the case.

Selena's Perspective: Selena emphasizes the community's fear of law enforcement and the prevalence of unsolved missing person cases in Nome. She believes strongly in Joseph's murder and criticizes the authorities for not thoroughly investigating all leads.

Notable Quote:

"I do not think at all that Joseph's death was an accident, know that he was murdered." – Selena [09:13]

Selena also highlights the family's relentless efforts to seek justice, including involving the governor and the FBI, yet they remain stuck at dead ends.

Emotional Appeal: Selena shares the daily anguish her mother feels, stating, “My mom cries for my brother every single day.” (Selena, 10:06).

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Interactions with Nome Police

Payne details his challenging interactions with the Nome Police Department (PD). Upon arrival, he encounters defensive attitudes and uncooperative investigators, making it difficult to access critical case files or speak with dedicated officers.

Challenges Faced:

• Lack of a dedicated case officer.
• Resistance to external inquiries, especially from journalists.
• Limited transparency regarding investigation progress.

Notable Quote:

"I didn’t come to Nome to talk about solved cases. I came here because the families told me law enforcement wasn't doing anything anymore." – Payne Lindsay [07:59]

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Private Investigation Efforts

Undeterred by police roadblocks, Payne teams up with private investigator Andy Clamser to independently investigate Joseph's disappearance. Their efforts focus on:

• Analyzing Phone Records: Attempting to establish a clear timeline of Joseph’s last known activities.
• Revisiting the Crime Scene: Conducting meticulous searches to uncover overlooked evidence.
• Confronting Suspicions: Directly questioning Jake and other potential witnesses to piece together conflicting narratives.

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Uncovering Red Flags

Repeated interviews with Jake reveal several suspicious elements:

• Inconsistent Statements: Jake’s varying accounts of his and Joseph’s activities during the critical weekend.
• Possession of a Rifle: Examination of a rifle found at Jake’s residence raises questions about his awareness and potential involvement (Payne Lindsay, 24:46).
• Behavioral Changes: Reports indicate that Jake's life took a downturn post-Joseph’s disappearance, including drug use and distancing from friends.

Notable Quote:

"The most likely explanation for Joseph's disappearance is that someone has done something to him." – Payne Lindsay [24:11]

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Concluding Insights

As the investigation progresses, Payne emphasizes the importance of risk-taking in truth-seeking. He highlights the community’s hope that uncovering the truth will either prompt local law enforcement to take more decisive action or reveal deeper corruption and deceit.

Final Thoughts: Payne acknowledges the extensive documentation and evidence provided by Joseph’s family and supporters, expressing optimism that persistence will eventually lead to answers.

Notable Quote:

"No more secrets anymore. So either they're going to start turning on each other, the police are going to start doing their job, or we're going to find out that somebody has been lying or is corrupt." – Payne Lindsay [32:11]

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Aftermath and Community Response

The episode concludes with reflections from friends who knew Jake before and after Joseph’s disappearance. Luke Lamanna shares insights into Jake’s troubled behavior and hints at possible confessions, suggesting that Jake may have admitted involvement indirectly through close contacts.

Community Impact: Jake's changing demeanor and strained relationships within his social circle further cloud the investigation, reinforcing the need for continued scrutiny and support for the Balderas family.

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Conclusion

"To Risk, We Must" serves as a compelling exploration of the unresolved disappearance of Joseph Balderas, spotlighting the complexities and challenges in cold case investigations. Payne Lindsey’s relentless pursuit of the truth underscores the podcast's dedication to giving a voice to the marginalized and seeking justice where official channels have stalled.

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Produced by: Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey
Written by: Payne Lindsey
Executive Producers: Donald Albright and Payne Lindsey
Lead Producer: Mike Rooney
Additional Production: Dylan Harrington, Cooper Skinner, Tracy Kaplan, Victoria McKenzie, Alice Kanique, Glenn and Eric Quintana
Artwork: Rob Sheridan
Original Music: Makeup and Vanity Set
Mixing and Mastering: Cooper Skinner

For more episodes and exclusive content, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts or visit Tenderfoot TV.

Transcript

[Payne Lindsay]

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[Andy Clamser]

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[Payne Lindsay]

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[Andy Clamser]

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[Payne Lindsay]

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[Luke Lamanna]

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[Mike Rooney]

Up and Vanished in the Midnight sun is released every Thursday and brought to you absolutely free. But for ad, free listening and exclusive bonuses, subscribe to Tenderfoot plus at tenderfootplus.com or on Apple Podcasts up and Vanished in the Midnight sun is intended for mature audiences and may include topics that can be upsetting such as emotional, physical and sexual violence, rape and murder. The names of survivors have been changed for anonymity purposes. Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own and does not reflect the views of Tenderfoot TV or Odyssey. Thank you so much for listening.

[Luke Lamanna]

Love is to risk appearing the fool. Weep is to risk appearing sentiments. To reach out for another is to risk involvement. To expose feelings is to risk expressing our true self. To place your ideas and your dreams before the crowd is to risk loss. To love is to risk not being loved in return. To live is to risk dying. To hope is to risk despair. To try at all is to risk failure. But to risk we must. Because the greatest hazard in life is to risk nothing. The man, the woman who risk nothing, does nothing, has nothing and is nothing. I'm taking a risk. Are you willing to take a risk too? Pain.

[Payne Lindsay]

From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta this is up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun Chapter two. I'm your host, Payne Lindsay. The weekend Joseph went missing has slowly become full of major contradictions. And here's the thing. People do forget things or they simply misremember. But when these discrepancies continue mounting and begin to form a pattern. It begs the question, is someone actually lying? And if they are, at this point, eight years later, I want a pretty damn good reason why. And so does Joseph's family. And directly in the middle of all things that didn't make sense was Joseph's roommate, Jake.

[Jake]

The roommate was interviewed, told the troopers that he was gone on Saturday night with friends, but that he saw Joseph the next morning walking down the hallway in the house.

[Payne Lindsay]

And this would have been Sunday.

[Jake]

Sunday morning after Joseph had stopped responding to anyone.

[Payne Lindsay]

So if that were true, Joseph would.

[Jake]

Have been ignoring people.

[Luke Lamanna]

Right.

[Payne Lindsay]

Which would be a little out of his character.

[Jake]

And then he was never heard from again. When you say you saw him at 1:30, no one else saw him after that.

[Luke Lamanna]

Really?

[Payne Lindsay]

I'm looking at from Saturday on as.

[Jake]

To where he was, what he was going.

[Payne Lindsay]

The state troopers found this ship pretty weird, too. I have the ability and the equipment.

[Andy Clamser]

To download contents and go through them.

[Payne Lindsay]

That'll help us establish a timeline. That's if you're willing to let me unborrow your phone. Set my equipment up right here and I can just download the contents. They were suspicious. It didn't make sense to them, but they offered Jake a way to clear himself.

[Jake]

The troopers did download the contents of his phone, but they didn't look at the contents of his phone until they went back to Anchorage. And then when they did look at the contents of his phone, they realized that he was texting friends, trying to get friends to create an alibi for him for Saturday night.

[Payne Lindsay]

Why would somebody be doing that?

[Jake]

Obviously because he was trying to hide something.

[Payne Lindsay]

If Jake saw Joseph alive and well on Sunday afternoon, then why would Jake even need to lie about Saturday to begin with? If Jake was hiding something? Well, what exactly could it be?

[Luke Lamanna]

Jake?

[Jake]

Originally, you told me that you went.

[Luke Lamanna]

Out for a drive.

[Jake]

And then I talked to your buddies.

[Luke Lamanna]

And they said that didn't happen.

[Jake]

You told me that you specifically went.

[Luke Lamanna]

For a drive that way.

[Jake]

And then they told me that they.

[Luke Lamanna]

Weren'T with you or that didn't happen. When confronted with, hey, what did you do last weekend? I wouldn't say I went for a drive. Someplace I wasn't.

[Jake]

You know, I would either not remember, but I wouldn't say I went for a drive.

[Luke Lamanna]

I wouldn't come up with something I didn't do. You know, I just.

[Payne Lindsay]

I can't.

[Jake]

I can't understand how somebody would know.

[Luke Lamanna]

Right up until the point that they made it home. But then you just hung out for four hours.

[Payne Lindsay]

You didn't do anything else.

[Luke Lamanna]

I doubt that, man. On a Saturday night. To me, it seems like either you're lying now because.

[Jake]

Because you're covering it, covering it for something that you don't want to tell.

[Luke Lamanna]

Us that for, or you were lying then.

[Payne Lindsay]

In a murder investigation, you have to make sense of these kinds of things. I mean, come on, if you lie to the cops in a murder investigation, you're making yourself look suspicious.

[Jake]

The whole issue of Jake lying about his whereabouts and trying to create an alibi. I mean, Jake said that he did that because he was nervous and he couldn't remember what he did that weekend. I mean, we have a situation where all of this, you know, all of this work that I've done is basically work that should have been done by the troopers. And now they're in a pretty defensive posture about the whole case.

[Payne Lindsay]

If I worked in law enforcement, which I do not, I could only imagine that if a true crime podcaster came poking around my case, it'd be pretty annoying. I'd probably hate me too. But I also imagine that I'd probably reflect on my own investigation as an officer. I didn't come to Nome to talk about solved cases. I came here because the families told me law enforcement wasn't doing anything anymore. All I can do is ask questions and try to find out myself. But things got off to a pretty rocky start. Within the first 30 seconds, I stepped into the known PD office. I introduced myself as someone who was trying to help by the request of the victims families. But the investigator was immediately on the defense, playing silly like they don't even know what a journalist is. And when I finally arranged a meeting with this investigator, the dude bailed. That's just the truth. And if you were me, you'd probably start to think, hey, I think the family might be right here. Here's an interview from the first time I met Selena, Joseph's sister, and his mother, Nelda.

[Selena]

We had a lot of people coming to us in the beginning, a lot. We didn't want to do anything that people are just gonna put his story out there. You actually go. You actually look for answers. So that is the only reason why we decided to do this podcast. I know a lot of people know what happened to him. Everybody's scared of law enforcement. They do away with people all the time. There's so many missing people in Nome. I do not think at all that Joseph's death was an accident, know that he was murdered. Why did they not look into everything? It sounds terrible sometimes I feel like law enforcement knows what happened.

[Payne Lindsay]

Why would they not be telling you?

[Selena]

They don't want to step on anybody's toes either. It's very terrible. And I feel bad because I love my brother so much. For a while there, it really was hard to live life. It was just constantly in your mind, and you just feel so guilty that, you know, that something happened to him and there's nothing we can do. We can't find him. We've gone to the governor. We've talked to the FBI. We've gotten everywhere. We've talked to representatives. We've done so many things, and it's always a dead end. My mom cries for my brother every single day. I do feel like all the answers are there, but we don't know how to find them. We need somebody like you guys to put the pieces together. Sometimes I feel like some of the troopers did think that he was murdered. We don't even call anymore because there's always nothing.

[Payne Lindsay]

When I was back in Nome, I stopped by the Alaska State Trooper's office, located right downtown on Front Street. And after buzzing the doorbell for a few minutes, a trooper finally opened the door for us. We're journalists from Atlanta. Who, from the troopers here in Nome, could speak to us about Bulldaris case?

[Selena]

I mean, I guess I'm not sure.

[Andy Clamser]

I mean, any one trooper can talk to you, but I don't know how.

[Jake]

Productive that would be. You know what I mean? We're not.

[Andy Clamser]

I don't even.

[Jake]

I remember it happening, but I don't.

[Selena]

I wasn't paying attention because I was.

[Andy Clamser]

Strictly involved with investigating other cases.

[Payne Lindsay]

Sure. But if it's still the trooper's case, I'd love to speak to someone who.

[Jake]

Could you have, like, a card or something?

[Payne Lindsay]

Yeah, a card. Yeah.

[Andy Clamser]

Yeah.

[Payne Lindsay]

Yes.

[Selena]

I'm not sure.

[Jake]

I don't know how much. How much of a quality interview any.

[Selena]

Of us would get, really.

[Payne Lindsay]

Is there, like, a particular agent who is in charge of this case now?

[Jake]

There's no case officer anymore, really. I mean, it kind of depends.

[Andy Clamser]

If a call comes in and someone.

[Jake]

Has information, then it would usually come either. Well, depends on who gets it, I mean.

[Andy Clamser]

And then we would follow up on.

[Jake]

The information that's provided.

[Payne Lindsay]

So there really isn't an investigator here for cases like that? No.

[Jake]

Okay.

[Luke Lamanna]

Interesting.

[Payne Lindsay]

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[Luke Lamanna]

That after World War II the US government quietly brought former Nazi scientists to America in a covert operation to advance military technology? Or that in the 1950s the US army conducted a secret experiment by releasing bacteria over San Francisco to test how a biological attack might spread without alerting the public? These might sound like conspiracy theories, but they're not. They're well documented government operations that have been hidden away in classified files for decades. I'm Luke lamanna, a Marine Corps recon vet and I've always had a thing for digging into the unknown. It's what led me to start my new podcast, Declassified Mysteries. In it I explore hidden truths and reveal some eye opening events like covert experiments and secret operations that those in power tried to keep buried. Follow redacted Declassified Mysteries with me, Luke Lamanna on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts to listen ad free. Join Wondery plus in the Wondery App.

[Payne Lindsay]

In last week's episode, you heard an interview with a man named Kirk, Jake's stepdad, who claims he saw Joseph's truck fly by their camp on Sunday afternoon. A story that seems pretty strange given everything else we know about Joseph and how he stopped responding to people on Saturday morning. On that same day, Andy also interviewed Kirk's wife Bonnie, who was apparently also there when they saw the truck. Bonnie is also Jake's mother.

[Jake]

All right, this will be an interview between Andy Clamser and Bonnie Reynolds. It's the 29th of September 2016. The time is now 9:09pm and we're at Bonnie's home in Nome. Can you tell me how well you knew Joseph and how you met him?

[Andy Clamser]

I met him through my niece, Christine Piscoya. She was working at the courthouse and my mom would night dinner where they have Eskimo food and she ended up bringing Joseph over there and that's where we met him.

[Jake]

Tell me your general impressions of Joseph.

[Andy Clamser]

He was a very, very nice guy. Very friendly, you know, and all the times that we would have dinner at my mom's or seeing him in passing, he was always very, very nice.

[Jake]

Do you recall seeing him at any point during the weekend that he disappeared?

[Andy Clamser]

The weekend?

[Jake]

That was the weekend of the 25th, June 25th.

[Andy Clamser]

Hi.

[Jake]

Diaper bag.

[Andy Clamser]

Oh, okay. It's not there. That had to be the Sunday we were at camp and I'd seen his vehicle drive by. We were outside working on the addition at camp and I Remember saying to Kirk, how come he didn't stop?

[Jake]

About what time was that?

[Andy Clamser]

That had to be around 3 or 4 in the afternoon, probably.

[Jake]

How fast was he going?

[Andy Clamser]

I guess it would have to be maybe more, 40 to 50.

[Jake]

Was it faster than normal?

[Andy Clamser]

Nope.

[Jake]

How sure are you that it was Joseph driving?

[Andy Clamser]

I don't know if it was. I couldn't tell you if it was Joseph or not, but I know it was his car. Between the glare and the way I don't even think the sun was shining, but with the glare, I couldn't tell if it was him or not.

[Jake]

Was there just one person in the car?

[Andy Clamser]

I couldn't tell you that either.

[Jake]

And the truck didn't go back by?

[Andy Clamser]

No. And that was my thought was, okay, well, maybe he'll stop by on the way home.

[Jake]

So did Jake mention to you seeing Joseph at the house Sunday morning or Sunday afternoon?

[Andy Clamser]

When I first had asked him on Monday, I got a call from the courthouse, and they hadn't. They knew that Jake and Joseph lived in my mom's house. They had asked me, hey, you know, can you call Jake and see maybe when the last time you saw Joseph? Because he hasn't shown up to work. It's not like him to not show up. So when I had called Jake and asked him, he said it had to be around one and it was just in passing.

[Jake]

Remember anything else he said?

[Andy Clamser]

He. And I said, well, do you remember what he was wearing? He said, no. I mean, we didn't really even talk that much. I mean, the age gap was, you know, so big that they didn't really hang out. I mean, Jake's still a young kid. Right.

[Jake]

Did Stan seem pretty certain that he saw the truck parked at the house on Sunday morning when he was on his way to the airport?

[Andy Clamser]

Yes.

[Jake]

So it wasn't like a major.

[Andy Clamser]

No, no. And it kind of surprised me because Joseph had been there for a while and I guess he just didn't notice, you know, that that truck was there.

[Jake]

Mm. And so he asked, whose truck is that?

[Andy Clamser]

Yep.

[Jake]

Do you know of anyone else who saw Joseph on Sunday?

[Andy Clamser]

I don't know that anybody else saw him.

[Jake]

Do you know of anybody who might have seen him on Saturday night other.

[Andy Clamser]

Than Christine in that afternoon when they were at the beach? I don't know that either. I don't know who.

[Jake]

Well, one of the things that's odd is that Megan had called him and left messages and texted him, and Christine had called him a number of times and left messages and texts. If he came back to nome it would be very unlike him to not return any of those.

[Andy Clamser]

Right. When she came down to camp Saturday, she had mentioned that she had called Joseph because they were. They. She called him back after they were hanging out at the beach to tell him, hey, you know, we're going to camp. We're having a big dinner, barbecue. Why don't you come down? And that's when she said that he. She left him a message because he.

[Jake]

Didn'T answer about come stopping by the camp.

[Andy Clamser]

Right.

[Jake]

Was Jake out at that dinner?

[Andy Clamser]

No.

[Jake]

Any idea what he was doing on Saturday night?

[Andy Clamser]

I don't know.

[Jake]

Any idea when he got home Saturday night?

[Andy Clamser]

No.

[Jake]

Do you think it's possible that someone did something to Joseph versus a bear getting him?

[Andy Clamser]

I think with a bear, you know, listening to a lot of the elders talk, I think with a bear, they're not going to eat clothing or shoes or backpacks. I know when he was running, he'd always have his backpack on him. I mean, even in town, I'd see him running with his backpack. I think there would have been some. Something come off of him. I've heard of people standing on a buried animal or something and not even.

[Jake]

Knowing and not realizing.

[Andy Clamser]

Yeah. Not realizing it, really. I've never seeing, you know, anything. Yeah.

[Jake]

It's just hard to imagine nobody finding anything.

[Andy Clamser]

It's just. And that was one of the things that we, you know, as we're flying around down there, we would do grids up and down that whole area. And that's what I was looking for for, you know, a new bear dig where, you know, the ground was obviously torn up. Yep.

[Jake]

Right.

[Andy Clamser]

And not seeing really much of anything.

[Jake]

Have you heard any rumors about what might have happened to him?

[Andy Clamser]

There are. There were rumors, especially after absolutely nothing, you know, no evidence, no nothing was found. There were a lot of rumors that both my mom and I had heard was that because Jake was his roommate, there's no evidence. A lot of rumors were that Jake did something to him.

[Jake]

And that's one of the things that, you know, we don't want to contribute to that kind of stuff, you know.

[Andy Clamser]

Right. And I mean, these rumors went as far as, you know, Jake got into drugs and was seen in and out of drug houses, him and his girlfriend. And Joseph found out and he questioned him about it and got into it, whatever, and Jake ended up doing something. I mean, that's how.

[Jake]

Basically just people making up stuff.

[Andy Clamser]

Right.

[Jake]

Had Joseph. So it doesn't sound like he talked much about his relationship with Meg.

[Andy Clamser]

At least with you guys not with me, I know Christine had known about her.

[Jake]

Mm. Right.

[Andy Clamser]

But I didn't know anything about it.

[Jake]

I talked with Christine today. She's still very, you know, emotional and sensitive about all this.

[Andy Clamser]

Yeah. Yep, she is. She's. She. I mean, it's funny, but not funny, but she gets anxiety very easily. And, you know, when she had talked to the troopers, you know, back when this was going on, and then the Abi guy came up and talked to him also, she had a tough time talking about it.

[Jake]

And the problem is that Jake probably has the most relevant and important information of anybody, and even little details that he may not recognize as significant could fit with other facts that we know about and help in sort of solving this mystery. Do you have any sense of why he doesn't want to speak with us?

[Andy Clamser]

I think with Jake, even with talking to me, you know, talking about, you know, what did Joseph say? What was he wearing? Do you remember what time? You know, trying to pulled details out from him. I think he would get really irritated that a lot of people were asking him. And he finally just told me was, we're just roommates. We just lived in the same house, period. We didn't hang out. We didn't even talk. We barely even said hi to each other.

[Jake]

I tried to call Jake 11 times this afternoon, this evening, and each time the call failed because he wasn't accepting calls. And the first investigator that came out here during the search had tried to interview Jake a number of times, and he said that Jake would agree to speak with him and then not show up or not return the call and even ran into him in a bar one night, and he said he would talk with him and then, you know, didn't.

[Andy Clamser]

He's still a kid. He's still learning how to be a grown up.

[Payne Lindsay]

The private investigator, Andy Clamser, had a mounting list of red flags after seemingly every interview he did. And at this point in time, the biggest question mark was Joseph's roommate, Jake. The lying, the trying to create alibis, the disappearing and reappearing rifle that was inside his apartment. And he also called this dude 11 times. No answer.

[Jake]

He continues to say that he observed Joseph coming out of his bedroom about 1:30pm on Sunday and leaving the house. He claims that he never saw any guns at the house there that Joseph might have had, which struck me as. Frankly, that didn't ring true to me because Joseph couldn't even latch the door to his room. You know, he had to keep the door closed with a bungee cord. He had bought that taurus pistol in March. And I just think it's highly unlikely that Jake, staying in a bedroom right next to his, you know, wasn't aware of that and never saw it. You know, I feel pretty strongly that the most likely explanation for Joseph's disappearance is that someone has done something to him. So I called Jake a bunch of times, like 11 times, I think, the first day I was there. And he always had his phone set to not accept calls.

[Payne Lindsay]

Immensely frustrating for the family, considering Jake is the last person to have seen Joseph alive. If he's actually telling the truth about that one. His roommate literally just vanished, and he didn't even seem interested in knowing why or how. He wanted nothing to do with it at all. But eventually, Andy just stopped taking no for an answer. He had limited time in Nome, and he wasn't going to leave there without trying to talk to Jake, so he went to his house. This is the tape from his surprise visit.

[Jake]

Sa. So when the rifle got dropped off here, was it in the case or outside of a case? Okay. Okay.

[Payne Lindsay]

My uncle borrowed for bear hunting.

[Jake]

Did he get anything? Was that Kevin or.

[Payne Lindsay]

Yeah, I think he might have gotten, like, a caribou with it.

[Jake]

Not too sure. My friend Tyler took it out, too. You don't do much shooting or hunting. No. When did they mount the scope on it?

[Luke Lamanna]

Oh, I got.

[Jake]

Oh, really? So when he won the rifle, it came with a scope, huh?

[Payne Lindsay]

I think so.

[Jake]

That's pretty nice.

[Payne Lindsay]

It's a nice.

[Luke Lamanna]

Yeah.

[Jake]

It's too bad that your uncle didn't just tell you he was dropping it off. So would you mind cycling one of these through the rifle and then letting me keep it?

[Payne Lindsay]

I don't know when that would be.

[Jake]

I mean, could you just do it right now? Just cycle one through? Basically just. Just load it and put one in the chamber and then eject it? Yeah. You'll need the bolt. Yeah, that's it. Do you want any handguns? No. Because you didn't have a.44, right? I don't know why one was missing out of it. That's kind of weird. But which room was Joseph's in here? Are there any bedrooms on the first floor?

[Payne Lindsay]

No. This is the room that the box ammo was found in and my rifles.

[Jake]

Found, like, a pantry.

[Payne Lindsay]

So I heard him open it, and then he closed it, latched it.

[Jake]

Is anybody staying in there now? Did he leave any of his stuff here? Did they take everything?

[Payne Lindsay]

They took everything.

[Jake]

Maybe I'll take a few pictures real quick showing the latch, the bungee cord, and then which Room is yours. One chef door here. Right here. Okay. So it was right, basically right next door.

[Andy Clamser]

Yeah.

[Jake]

And the door is open.

[Payne Lindsay]

I saw him walk right here.

[Jake]

So when you saw him, he would have been headed out? Yeah. All right, I'm out of here.

[Payne Lindsay]

The tremendous efforts of Joseph's family, friends and the private investigators they hired is what I believe will ultimately solve this case. Looking back eight years to right now, we have an unreal vantage point. They gave us hundreds and hundreds of documents. And I told Selena the first time I met her how hugely important this was. You guys have done an incredible job. Like, seriously, this is. This is the most information I've ever had, really, for a single case.

[Selena]

Really.

[Payne Lindsay]

I'm not.

[Selena]

I do feel like all the answers are there, but we don't know how to find them. We need somebody like you guys to put the pieces together.

[Payne Lindsay]

His family was confident there was foul play here.

[Selena]

I know that a lot of people know because we've heard so many rumors. A lot of rumors aren't true. One of those rumors is right. So it's really hard.

[Payne Lindsay]

We're just going to take all this information. We're going to tell the whole world. No more secrets anymore. So either they're going to start turning on each other, the police are going to start doing their job, or we're going to find out that somebody has been lying or is corrupt. Yeah.

[Luke Lamanna]

I've known Jake since we were kids. He was a good kid. He loved swimming. He did well in school and even went to college. But things changed. He quit school. He got into drugs and started hanging out with a different crowd. It was tough to see him go down that path. Shortly after Joseph disappeared, something really strange happened. Jake's mom and stepdad got involved in a debriefing of the case. I thought a debriefing was only for immediate family. It didn't make sense to me. The thing is, I know Jake very well. Jake's part of a tight knit group of friends. They've been together forever. And I can tell you that after Joseph went missing, Jake started acting weird. Drugs, Heroin. This time the people I know don't want to talk about this. They don't want anything to do with it. At a party one night that summer, someone called Jake the killer. He snapped, went psycho. It's like people can only keep something like that inside for so long before it starts to eat away at them. I can promise you my source is very close to Jake. Very close. They told me that Jake admitted to doing something to Joseph. And he said it. Clearly it's been a very long time now. Can Jake still trust all of his friends? What do you think? Pain.

[Payne Lindsay]

Thanks for listening. For ad free content, go subscribe to Tenderfoot plus on Apple Podcasts and if you want to follow me on Instagram, it's ainlenz and upandvanished is punished. Not that hard to forget I got lucky with those handles. Thanks for listening and I'll see you next week.

[Mike Rooney]

Up and Vanished in the Midnight sun is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your host is Payne Lindsay. The show is written by Payne Lindsay with additional assistance from Mike Rooney. Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsey. Lead producer is Mike Rooney, along with producers Dylan Harrington and Cooper Skinner. Editing by Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner with additional editing by Dylan Harrington. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Additional Production by Victoria McKenzie, Alice Kanique, Glenn and Eric Quintana. Artwork by Rob Sheridan. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set mixed and mastered by Cooper Skinner. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at uta, Beck Media and Marketing and the Nord Group. Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team. Additional information and resources can be found in our show Notes. For more podcasts like up and Vanished, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us@Tenderfoot TV. Thanks for listening.

[Payne Lindsay]

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