BTS: Payne's Investigation into Jodi Huisentruit

Summary

Up and Vanished Weekly

Episode Title: BTS: Payne's Investigation into Jodi Huisentruit
Date: August 20, 2025
Host: Maggie Freleng
Guest: Payne Lindsey
Podcast Production: Tenderfoot TV

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Overview

This episode offers a candid, behind-the-scenes conversation between host Maggie Freleng and Up and Vanished creator Payne Lindsey about their investigation into the 1995 disappearance of Jodi Huisentruit, a Minnesota news anchor gone missing under mysterious circumstances. The discussion re-examines Payne’s personal journey with the case—covered in the Up and Vanished TV series—challenges in the original investigation, interactions with key person of interest John Van Cise, and broader reflections on why cases like these remain unsolved.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Look Into Jodi Huisentruit’s Disappearance?

• Setting the Scene (03:53)
  • Payne: “I think it's pretty bizarre when a popular local news anchor just completely vanishes off the face of the earth and decades go by and no one knows what happened.”
  • The size of Jodi’s network and her community prominence make her case especially confounding.
  • Payne suspects police may have missed something early but also wonders if a lack of evidence is to blame.

2. Parallels With Other Cases

• Comparisons with the Tara Grinstead Case (04:49–05:13)
  • Maggie draws similarities between Jodi’s and Tara’s disappearances: women vanish, evidence of a possible struggle, ambiguous crime scenes.
  • Payne: “There was little things that you could say, hey, maybe that's off enough to suggest something happened here. And I think Jodi's case is pretty similar...maybe it was just set up to look that way, or maybe it's something completely different.” (05:13)

3. Evaluation of the Police Investigation

• Did Police Do Enough? (06:08–11:16)
  • Payne acknowledges it’s difficult to criticize without the benefit of hindsight unless there was clear police negligence.
  • Notable Quote: “If it's been 20 plus years, 30 years, clearly whatever methods you're using, whatever leads you've had, whatever you've been doing isn't working. So therefore...try something different.” (06:18)
  • Discussion of how law enforcement often keeps files closed in long-unsolved cases, which Payne finds counterproductive.
  • Maggie’s Perspective: Recognizes the police rationale for withholding critical information (e.g., details only the perpetrator would know) but questions its long-term efficacy.

4. The Tension Between Justice and Closure

• What Families Want vs. Police Goals (11:10–12:06)
  • Payne: “From most of the people that I've talked to, they just want to know what the hell happened. They've almost lost the hope on ever finding or convicting the bad guy.”
  • Maggie raises whether answers and closure matter more than a conviction for loved ones of the missing.

5. The John Van Cise Angle

• The Last Person to See Jodi (14:17–19:27)
  • John Van Cise often comes up as a central figure due to his proximity to Jodi, his account of events, and subsequent behavior.
  • Payne found it odd that Van Cise invited Jodi late at night to watch a birthday VHS, considering her early work schedule.
    • Payne: “I don't think you just want to go over to a friend's house at 8pm to only watch a birthday tape.” (15:12)
  • Maggie underscores suspicious timing given Jodi's demanding morning schedule.
  • Van Cise’s proactive involvement, including contacting the station about Jodi, is interpreted ambivalently: possible genuine concern, or an effort to control the narrative.
    • Payne: “If you're the last person to see someone alive, you are now on a list. Sometimes that's bad luck.” (16:11)
    • “He did make statements that made it seem like he knew he was the last person to see her alive when in fact no one else could have known that yet.” (16:37)

6. Payne’s Confrontation with Van Cise in Arizona

• Direct Encounter and Its Fallout (19:27–26:50)
  • Payne describes tracking Van Cise to Arizona, approaching his home, and the tense, brief interactions that followed.
  • Van Cise’s partner was defensive, filming Payne, and repeatedly asked him to leave.
  • Odd behavior from Van Cise’s acquaintances: one proactively tipped him off Payne was coming, suggesting a network protecting him or simply circling the wagons.
    • Payne: “He literally just blew up. He was fucking mad. It wasn't like I was there as a threat...just asking genuine questions.” (25:10)
  • Payne attempted to evoke an emotional response with: “She never came back, John. She never came back.” (26:38)

7. Van Cise’s Background and Lingering Questions

• Obsessiveness and Behavior Patterns (29:08–32:10)
  • Rumors that Van Cise had a crush on Jodi, perhaps naming a boat after her, and even claiming to have had premonitions about her safety make him an enduring person of interest.
  • Maggie: “I think it's weird that Jodie's 27 and he looks like he's in his fucking 50s. I think the whole thing with him is just weird.” (29:42)
  • Payne concedes that while he leans toward the simplest answer, sometimes weird or unlikely things happen.
    • “I didn't feel any better about John Van Cise having dived pretty deep into this case.” (32:10)
    • He stresses the need for skepticism and self-checks as an investigator.

8. Reflection and Hope for Resolution

• After Van Cise’s Death (33:05–33:52)
  • Maggie notes Van Cise’s passing after the interview was recorded, casting doubt on whether further answers will arise about his involvement.
  • She expresses hope that law enforcement will continue the search for what happened to Jodi.

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On Law Enforcement Sharing Information:
  Payne Lindsay (06:18)
  “If it's been 20 plus years, 30 years, clearly whatever methods you're using, whatever leads you've had, whatever you've been doing isn't working. And so therefore, I think it's just common sense to try something different.”

• On Families’ Needs:
  Payne Lindsay (11:16)
  “From most of the people that I've talked to, they just want to know what the hell happened…They just want to be able to go to sleep at night knowing what happened to their loved one.”

• Challenging the Narrative Around Van Cise:
  Payne Lindsay (16:37)
  “He did make statements that made it seem like he knew he was the last person to see her alive when in fact no one else could have known that yet.”

• Personal Reflection on Encounter:
  Payne Lindsay (25:10)
  “He literally just blew up. He was fucking mad. It wasn't like I was there as a threat...just asking genuine questions.”

• Investigative Caution:
  Payne Lindsay (32:10)
  “I didn't feel any better about John Van Cise having dived pretty deep into this case…Diving into this again, you can see why it's so puzzling. There are so many different rabbit holes.”

• On Occam’s Razor, but Not Letting It Blind You:
  Payne Lindsay (30:08)
  “I always lean into the simplest answer usually being right…But I will say I didn't feel any better about John Van Cise having dived pretty deep into this case.”

• Maggie’s Realism About Weirdness vs. Guilt:
  Maggie Freleng (31:13)
  “People get convicted based on that, and it's like, shit, he was just a fucking weird dude, but he didn't do it.”

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Segment Timestamps

• Main Episode Starts – [02:05]
• Investigating Jodi’s Case: Why This One? – [03:53]
• Comparisons: Jodi vs. Tara Grinstead – [04:49 – 05:13]
• Critique on Police and Case File Secrecy – [06:08 – 11:16]
• John Van Cise: Central Person of Interest – [14:17 – 19:27]
• Payne’s Confrontation with Van Cise – [19:27 – 26:50]
• Van Cise’s Background; Odd Behavior – [29:08 – 32:10]
• Reflection on Van Cise’s Death and Hopes for the Case – [33:05 – 33:52]

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Tone, Style, and Takeaways

• The tone is frank, analytical, and empathetic—true to investigative true crime storytelling but with a personal, sometimes irreverent edge (“fucking mad,” “shit, he was just a weird dude”).
• The hosts challenge each other’s perspectives while acknowledging uncertainty, drawing on years of investigative reporting and encounters with police bureaucracy.
• Listeners are left with a full spectrum picture—not only of Jodi Huisentruit’s story, but of the inherent frustrations, heartbreaks, and peculiarities embedded in cold case investigations.

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Summary

This episode peels back the layers of both the Huisentruit case and Payne Lindsey’s investigative process, highlighting why her disappearance remains unsolved, the complex role of law enforcement, and the ambiguous legacy of central figure John Van Cise. It’s both a primer for new listeners and a deep, honest reflection for seasoned true crime followers.

Transcript

[Maggie Freeling]

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[Payne Lindsay]

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[Payne Lindsay]

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[Maggie Freeling]

This podcast discusses mature and sensitive content, including descriptions of violence that may be triggering for some audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

[Payne Lindsay]

Foreign.

[Maggie Freeling]

Hey y', all, it's Maggie. Today I want to bring you a special discussion as an addition to last week's republished episode about the disappearance of Jody Husentruit. And as a quick note, if you haven't listened to that episode yet, just pause this real quick and go back before moving on with this discussion, because there will be some spoilers. I mentioned the reasons that I've been fascinated with Jody's case is the personal connection I feel I have to it. And in the previous episode we touched on the fact that Payne and the team covered Jody's case for the up and Vanish TV series on Oxygen. We heard from Payne briefly during the end of that episode, but I sat down with him a while back to discuss a few cases in more depth, including Jody's. He had some great insight into why he chose to look into her case, how he felt the original investigation was handled, and some of the questions he still has all these years later. So I want to bring you behind the scenes for an honest take on Payne's thoughts about all of it. And for the sake of transparency, we did discuss John Van Cise and Payne's interaction with him during his trip to Arizona for the TV series. But John Van Cise passed away several months back after Payne and I had already recorded this discussion. So just keep that in mind as you're listening. And as always, all parties discussed are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. And with all of that said, I hope you enjoy the conversation. So Jodi Husentrud's disappearance has been in and out of the Spotlight for almost 30 years. And when she vanished, it launched the biggest missing persons investigation in the Midwest. It was big news. Payne, why did you choose to investigate this case when you were doing the up and Vanish series?

[Payne Lindsay]

I mean, personally, I think it's pretty bizarre when a popular local news anchor just completely vanishes off the face of the earth and decades go by and no one knows what happened. And I think that she has such a large network of friends and family, and she was so important and popular in the community that it just seems odd that it hasn't been solved yet. For my curious brain, it just makes me wonder why that is. And is it something that the police missed early on? You know, have they always had their suspicions, but there's just not enough physical evidence to actually bring charges and put someone behind bars? Either way, it just is just a bizarre mystery to me. I feel like it's a case that should have already been solved by now, and it's worth revisiting in hopes to actually maybe help do that.

[Maggie Freeling]

Yeah, I think this one is actually interesting because it was. Reminds me a bit. Hear me out. Of the Tara Grinstead case. There is a woman who has vanished, and there's seemingly a struggle. Her belongings are amiss with Tara. You know, the lamp was knocked over. It's clear. You know, in Jodi's case, there was a struggle. Does this remind you of Tara's case at all?

[Payne Lindsay]

Yes. And what's interesting about that is you mentioned the struggle in Tara Grinstead's case, and that was sort of 50 50. They didn't really know for sure. There were signs that could allude to a struggle having occurred, but there wasn't anything, you know, there wasn't a broken window. There was no blood. Things that are more typical in an actual struggle. There was little things that you could say, hey, maybe that's off enough to suggest something happened in here. And I think Jody's case is pretty similar. Where there's a couple things that can give you that impression, or maybe it was just set up to look that way, or maybe it's something completely different. Just one more frustrating part of Jodi's case in terms of trying to solve it and make sense of it all, that is pretty similar to Tara Grand Stud's case.

[Maggie Freeling]

So when you looked into this pain, do you feel like the police did a good job initially? Is there anything they could have done better with the initial investigation?

[Payne Lindsay]

I think when you look back at any unsolved missing persons case, in hindsight, it's always a little unfair to pose the question, did the police do a great job? Unless they really did, you know, fucking botch this thing. Because when you're arriving at the scene of what is eventually going to become a missing persons case, because it isn't immediately, there isn't a definitive crime scene, there isn't a murder scene, they just kind of slowly become missing over time. And so it's hard to really scrutinize what the police should have done in the early hours of that morning. But it did definitely look suspicious. And I think they knew something bad had happened. I think that the police in this case, unlike some others that I've investigated and looked into, did a decent job and have tried numerous things over the years to find out what happened. I could imagine that a family member or a friend would say something different than that. That's because they haven't solved it. My biggest bone to pick with law enforcement when it comes to unsolved missing persons cases that are decades old is just plain and simple. If it's been 20 plus years, 30 years, clearly whatever methods you're using, whatever leads you've had, whatever you've been doing isn't working. And so therefore, I think it's just common sense to try something different. When I go look into a missing person's case that has been unsolved for a long period of time like that, and there's not a lot of evidence. Friends and family feel in the dark because there's no new information, there's no new leads. I feel like they should just show their hand. They love to say, this is an open investigation or this is an active investigation. When they tell me that, I usually ask, oh, okay, so what are you guys doing actively? If I'm actively there interviewing people and you're actively not, then the case isn't active. You just are holding onto it. You know, there's always a fear with law enforcement, and I get it where maybe there's this one piece of evidence that only the killer could know. And you don't want to put that out there, but you could do that for a hundred years and it never means anything. So I think at a certain point, you have to take risks. If the main reason for not giving case files and not opening up their investigation to the public or the family is over one little piece of information that only the killer would know, at a certain point, you have to take the risk of fucking that up and releasing that because you don't know what that might do. Maybe that piece of information that only the killer would know, somebody else knows too. And then you find the killer. If five, six years ago, I was investigating this case on the up and Vanished TV show, and five years later, we're here still talking about it, we gotta try something new here. And if you're withholding information, if you got the keys to the castle, give them up or tell us that you don't have anything. Yeah, because a lot of times it's.

[Maggie Freeling]

That that's so interesting, because we faced this with Maura Murray's case files. It's been 20 years, and we had said, you know, why can't we just have the case? I mean, the father has tried to get the case files. Like, it's just, you know, and. But they want to hold on to maybe there is that one tidbit of information that the killer or the kidnapper, like, no one knows that information except that person, so they don't want to put it out there, which I understand. I wonder if you can, like, keep that one little piece from the case and then, like, give. You know what I mean? Like, I get what you're saying, but I also get why police want to hold onto it.

[Payne Lindsay]

Holding onto one key piece of information in hopes of solving the case is merely a tactic, right? So if in 30 years this tactic of yours has not worked, at what point do you say, hey, maybe we should try something different? Does this just go on forever? In a hundred years, is the third generation of this police department going to say the same thing? It becomes silly at a certain point, right?

[Maggie Freeling]

It does. And I guess it comes down to, like, what matters more? Answers and closure or, like, a conviction?

[Payne Lindsay]

Yeah, that's a good point, because that's a good distinction. And from what I found, family and friends, that late in the game, they want to know what happened. They obviously want justice. But from most of the people that I've talked to, they just want to know what the hell happened. They've almost lost the hope on ever finding or convicting the bad guy. They just want to be able to go to sleep at night knowing what happened to their loved one. And there's a lot of value in that. I think that law enforcement, police, the government, their primary goal is to close a case, meaning a conviction, an arrest, and so they're going to lead with that. And sometimes that gets in the way of finding answers for a family that's hurting.

[Maggie Freeling]

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[Maggie Freeling]

And we're back. So let's talk about some of those potential answers. The main name that comes up all the time is John Van Cise. We mentioned him. He is the man that said Jody came to his house to watch this video of her birthday party that he filmed.

[Payne Lindsay]

I remember when I first learned the details of this case, learning that this guy John Van Cise went over to Jody's apartment to watch a VHS tape of a birthday party. That just seemed so odd to me. But then I kind of thought about it in more detail and you know, if you think about it, decades ago it seemed like every dad was filming their son's birthday parties. Like once a, like a video camera became a consumer product, it's like they filmed everything.

[Maggie Freeling]

Yeah.

[Payne Lindsay]

And so I think in that way maybe it's not that weird. It's hey, I filmed this thing and let's go watch it. But I also think that that's just one thing. Right. I don't think you just want to go over to a friend's house at 8pm to only watch a birthday tape.

[Maggie Freeling]

That means she had this busy, busy day. She wakes up at the freaking ass crack of dawn for work. And so now she gets home, makes a phone call at 8:30, that means she's getting to his house like 9ish. 9:30. Like it seems off for a woman that's waking up around 3, 4 in the morning to be going out at 9 o'. Clock.

[Payne Lindsay]

Yeah. News anchors have the most insane schedules ever. I know a few and I'm, every time I see them I go, I don't know how you do this.

[Maggie Freeling]

Right.

[Payne Lindsay]

Like when do you sleep? When do you go to sleep? Their bedtimes are like 8pm because they have to be up at 2am to be on the air at 4 or something. Crazy.

[Maggie Freeling]

Yeah.

[Payne Lindsay]

Anything past 10pm it would be super late. If she has to be at the station around 4am to me, John Van Sluice is immediately important for the age old reason. Right. If you're the last person to see someone alive, you are now on a list. Sometimes that's bad luck.

[Maggie Freeling]

Well, he also inserted himself by saying he was the last person to see her alive.

[Payne Lindsay]

He did make statements that made it seem like he knew he was the last person to see her alive when in fact no one else could have known that yet.

[Maggie Freeling]

Right.

[Payne Lindsay]

I find that very strange that he would call the station concerned for her whereabouts. It makes me think it's one of two things. It's either genuine concern and you have to answer the question of why did he know this information, how did he know that? Or two, he's bullshitting and he's trying to stay close to this and paint a different picture. But if that's what he was doing, it still worked, because here we are 30 years later.

[Maggie Freeling]

Well, I mean, and in fairness to him, I think we might have different opinions on him, but people could have been calling around from the station asking, is Jody at your house? Is Jodi at your house? John is a friend of hers. Someone could have said, hey, have you seen Jody? Have you talked to her? He. He could have gotten a call. It is possible.

[Payne Lindsay]

Absolutely, very possible. And you know that. That's the tough part about going back through and. And looking at someone like this. It's awful that their name is so tied to it if they genuinely had nothing to do with it. But I always. And I'll stand by this, and I hope it never happens to me, but if you're the last person to see somebody alive and you're super close to them, you know good and well that you're going to become a person of interest, at least in the slightest. Right. And if you had nothing to do with it, that does suck for you. That's. That's unfortunate. But you have a responsibility now to clear yourself and help figure out what happened, especially if you were genuinely close to them.

[Maggie Freeling]

And in fairness, he did make media appearances. He cooperated with police, is that correct?

[Payne Lindsay]

Yes. He even took a polygraph test, which the results are. Well, we don't know because the police never released them. And I don't know if that's because he tasked with flying colors, and they just don't want to tell him or if he failed miserably and they don't want to tell him, or if it was inconclusive. I don't know. It could just be a little mind game that they're playing with him. And because we don't have the answers, we're here to speculate. And that's one more reason, I think, that these files, this kind of information, should be made public or at least available to the family at this point.

[Maggie Freeling]

You went and found John Van Cise. He moved away to Arizona after being really involved with trying to help Jodie, and then suddenly just moves away, goes silence. And it was like, what, like nine months later or something like that. So you go and find him. What was that like?

[Payne Lindsay]

So we had a few different potential addresses, and you don't always know for sure if you're going to be Rolling up to the real place or not. So I knocked on the front door. I had an earpiece in and so they could talk to me. And they're filming from inside this blacked out suv, and you can't really see the cameras. And they're off far enough away where it just appears that I'm at their doorstep, and it's just me. And so I knock on the door, and I'm there for probably maybe a minute. And I don't get any response. And I'm like, damn. Of course, you know, we come to the address that we think is likely where he lives in Arizona. We've flown all this way, and he's not here, or no one lives here anymore. Like, what a bust. And then I get a little message in my earpiece that they think there's someone talking, moving around in the backyard. And so I walk back out to the sidewalk, and I do a loop around the house. And I walk up to this tall wooden fence, and I can see kind of through the tiny cracks in the fence. I look through, and I see who is definitively John Van Zeiss and his new lady friend. They are doing something with a camper that he has. When I first walked up, they didn't see me. They didn't hear me. And so I'm peeking through, and I lock eyes on him. I see him. I know it's him. I know it's John. We're at the right place. And they seem to be kind of fussing about something. And I say something to grab their attention, just to kind of make my presence known, because I felt like any second now, they're gonna look over and see this creepy eyeball peeking through their fence. I think they knew right away that it was odd that a unfamiliar stranger is asking to talk to John Van Syce from across his fence.

[Maggie Freeling]

Do you think that he might have known? Like what? Like, do you think he knew?

[Payne Lindsay]

So, yes, I didn't know at the time he knew, but we learned that he did know. He was anticipating the possibility of this happening.

[Maggie Freeling]

Okay.

[Payne Lindsay]

In that 48 hours, and it did. This lady comes out. She immediately has her iPad, and she starts filming me. The second that she starts walking towards the fence from the other side. I walk back and plant my feet on the sidewalk. So I'm no longer in any shape or form on their property. Just to have a good baseline start here. But her first thing is, you know, get off my property. And I'm like, well, I'm not, you know, I'm here to talk about Jody and I want to talk to John. And she was very frustrated and upset. She was expressing to me that he's been badgered for all these years. People keep pointing the finger at him. He has nothing to do with this. He has no more to say. And I reasoned with her. I was like, I understand that, but, you know, can I ask you a question? And she says, sure. And the day before, I had talked to a friend of John's who had spoken to me in confidence and said some weird things about him. Not intentionally, but in my meeting with this mutual friend of John Van Cise's, she was, in my opinion, trying to defend him, saying things that didn't really add up in terms of the timeline that morning and offering new information that I was not asking for or about. And it just came across like she was vouching for him.

[Maggie Freeling]

This is the woman who said she was his alibi, correct?

[Payne Lindsay]

Correct. And so this is very important, Right? So I bring up this lady's name to John's current wife that I'm talking to on the sidewalk. She says, oh, yeah, we know. She called us. I'm like, oh. So she reached out. I also found that strange that this lady I just talked to went and tipped off John that I may be coming. So they knew I was about to be there. At this point, John's still on the other side of the fence. The fence door is closed. It's just me and this woman, and she's still filming me. Eventually, after this pretty short exchange, she walks back into their backyard. When she opens the gate to the fence, I see John again, and he's looking at me. And so it was like the one second I had where I was looking at him and he could see me. And I was like, john, I want to talk to you about this. And he says, get the hell off my property. And I was like, I'm not on your property, John. I just want to talk to you. I had heard stories about John Van Cise from multiple people, and enough for me to believe it to be true personally, that he at least has had in the past the tendency to have these emotional outbursts. If you knew John in one light, you'd say, there's no way this person could do this. But those who had seen this other side of him, they said, oh, I could see him doing this based off their experience. And in that moment, I felt like I got, like, a tiny glimpse into his emotional outburst because he had sat there for several minutes and just let his wife talk to me and went about his business and didn't talk. And then once I tried to address him again, he literally just blew up. He was fucking mad. It wasn't like I was there as a threat. I didn't come there laying accusations. I'm talking very normally and softly and being respectful, not intruding, staying off their property, just asking genuine questions. The only thing I could think of to say to him before I left was a quote that he had once said himself years ago in a news interview that he believes she'll come back one day. And I said she never came back, John. She never came back. Hoping that maybe even if he didn't do it that would strike some emotional chord. Like damn, you're right, I did say that and I wish he did. So either he is just so fed up with being associated with this that he has just tried to permanently distance himself or he's fed up with lying.

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[Payne Lindsay]

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[Maggie Freeling]

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[Payne Lindsay]

Before I kind of conclude on John Van Cise, there are some things about him that I always thought were weird. He definitely liked this woman. He definitely had a crush on this woman, allegedly named his boat after her. He also claimed one time to have had a premonition about Jody's safety. Shortly before her disappearance, he told investigators and reporters that he had a bad feeling that something might happen to her. This statement struck me as fucking odd.

[Maggie Freeling]

Right. I think it's weird that Jodie's 27 and he looks like he's in his fucking 50s. I think the whole thing with him is just weird. I think off the bat he's just a strange guy and I think he inserted himself. I think he was obsessed with her. I don't know.

[Payne Lindsay]

I mean, I don't know what happened to Jodi. Any of these theories could be correct or none of them at all could be correct.

[Maggie Freeling]

Sure.

[Payne Lindsay]

But I just, as an investigative journalist myself, I always lean into the simplest answer, usually being right. Yeah, People have the tendency, and even myself, to when something really bad happens, to want to have this grand explanation for it all. Like just look at the assassination of jfk, right? I think it was just Lee Harvey Oswald right? Now, are there other secrets surrounding it? Absolutely. But I think he is the guy who killed jfk. This random guy takes this really far shot from this building at the perfect moment and kills the President. Like, there has to be more, right? And so I think that's just a natural instinct. When a tragedy occurs is for there to be some grander meaning or explanation for it.

[Maggie Freeling]

I also come from this world of wrongful convictions where people get convicted based on that and it's like, shit, he was just a fucking weird dude, but he didn't do it.

[Payne Lindsay]

Yeah, that's the toughest part. Sometimes weird Shit happens. That doesn't make any sense at all. That could make something look like one thing, and it's really not. That happens. You know, people literally get struck by lightning more than one time. Like, that's crazy. Like, the odds of that are insane. So weird shit does happen. And so when I'm investigating a cold case, I always have to look in the mirror a little bit and check myself and not be overly confident with this. You know, the simplest answer is always right. So I'm not. I don't go, like, marching around with that. But I will say I didn't feel any better about John Van Cise having dived pretty deep into this case.

[Maggie Freeling]

Yeah.

[Payne Lindsay]

And I think John himself, presumably innocent, like he's claiming, could help clear that up. And maybe I wouldn't, as a journalist myself, feel that way if he did, but that, you know, he has no obligation to do that for me or to anyone. But because he didn't, I remain thinking and feeling the same way. Diving into this again, you can see why it's so puzzling. There are so many different rabbit holes. They're not all the answer. Also, none of them could be. And I've talked to a lot of friends and family of Jodi's, and they're just. They're heartbroken. They've been at a loss for decades.

[Maggie Freeling]

As I mentioned at the top of the episode, after Payne and I sat down to discuss Jodi's case, we learned that John Van Cuys passed away. Considering how closely his name has been associated with her disappearance and the fact that he had claimed to be with her the night before she went missing, we can't help but wonder what impact his death may have had. On the opportunity to learn any new information, my hope is that authorities continue to investigate Jody's disappearance and that answers will someday come. Until then, we continue to share her story, and I ask you do the same, y'.

[Payne Lindsay]

All.

[Maggie Freeling]

Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of up and Vanish Weekly. Be sure to tune in next week as we dig into another new case. Until next time.

[Payne Lindsay]

Up and Vanish Weekly is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your hosts are Maggie Freeling and myself, Payne Lindsay. The show is written by Maggie Freeling, myself and John Street. Executive producers are Donald Albright and myself. Lead producer is John Street. Additional production by Meredith Steadman and Mike Rooney. Research for the series by Jamie Albright, Celicia Stanton and Carolyn Tallmadge. Edit and mix by Dylan Harrington and Sean Nurney. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Artwork by Byron McCoy, original music by makeup and vanity set. Special thanks to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at uta, Beck Media and Marketing and the Nord Group. For more podcasts like up and Vanish weekly, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us on@Tenderfoot TV. Thanks for listening. In March 2017, police in Ketchikan, Alaska got a worried call and I haven't heard from them, so I'm getting worried. It was about a beloved surgeon, one of just two in town named Eric Garcia. When police officers arrived to check on the doctor, they found him dead on a couch.

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[Payne Lindsay]

Is it a murder? What is it? From ABC Audio and 2020 Cold Blooded Mystery in Alaska is out now. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.