Listener Q&A

Summary

Up and Vanished Weekly – Listener Q&A Episode Summary

Introduction and Special Episode In this special Listener Q&A episode of Up and Vanished Weekly, host Maggie Freeling and co-host John Street engage directly with their audience, providing personal insights and addressing listener questions. Stripped of advertisements and intros, the episode offers a candid look behind the scenes of the podcast.

Highlight on Andre Brown's Case Maggie shares groundbreaking news about Andre Brown, a man she has been closely following for years due to his wrongful conviction. Two years after his conviction was vacated, Andre was celebrating his freedom and reconnecting with his family. However, the Bronx District Attorney, Darcelle Clark, appealed the decision, threatening to reinstate his prison sentence on a technicality during Christmas 2024. Maggie reveals a significant development: just two days before Andre was set to return to prison, U.S. Senator Chuck Schumer intervened, causing the case to be reopened.

"Andre is not going back for the foreseeable future. They're going to reopen everything. And I am elated right now." — Maggie Freeling [03:22]

Maggie's Experience at the Innocence Network Conference Maggie recounts her recent trip to the Innocence Network conference in Seattle, highlighting the collaborative environment focused on criminal justice reform and exonerations. She notes the impressive number of exonerations discussed, emphasizing the ongoing fight against wrongful convictions.

"Almost 300 guys, it was like 285 guys this year were exonerated or had just been exonerated. 90 of them were there for the first time. So it's truly magical." — Maggie Freeling [05:17]

Personal Insights: Flying, Music, and Life Maggie delves into her personal life, discussing her unconventional approach to flying and her passion for music. She humorously describes her flying method, which involves calming techniques to manage anxiety, and shares her love for New York hardcore bands like Agnostic Front and iconic 80s bands such as Sisters of Mercy and Duran Duran.

"My flying skills are well established. I take a Xanax, head to the bar, get a few drinks, pop an edible. By the time the flight takes off, I don't know, I'm on a plane." — Maggie Freeling [06:58]

Listener Questions and Answers

1. Book Recommendations Maggie recommends two impactful books:

   • “Once I Was You” by Maria Hinojosa: A memoir about her journey from Mexico to becoming a prominent Latina journalist.
   • “Lost Girls” by Robert Kolker: A deep dive into the Gilgo Beach serial killer investigation.

   "Maria's memoir is one of my favorites, and not just because she's my mentor. I think it's really beautiful." — Maggie Freeling [09:02]

2. Eyewitness Testimony in Court Maggie discusses the reliability of eyewitness testimony, citing that 70-75% of DNA exoneration cases involve eyewitness misidentification. She emphasizes the fallibility of such testimonies and the need for more robust evidence in legal proceedings.

   "Roughly 70 to 75% of DNA exoneration cases involve eyewitness misidentification. That is a very high error rate." — Maggie Freeling [23:59]

3. Balancing Storytelling with Investigative Depth Maggie explains the challenges of condensing complex cases into 40-minute episodes while maintaining both depth and engaging storytelling. She strives to present human stories without getting lost in legal jargon.

   "How do you fit in personality, making it a show that people want to come back and listen to and often that is a little more light-hearted and be true to the content." — Maggie Freeling [43:59]

Addressing Feedback and Show Adjustments The hosts address listener feedback regarding the use of AI narrators, clarifying that their narrator, Rob Ricotta, is a real person integral to the original Up and Vanished series. They acknowledge constructive criticism and outline upcoming changes to improve episode structure and guest balance.

"We heard you. We're gonna try this and get the beats of the case a little earlier in the episode, and we think that might help make things clearer for listeners." — Maggie Freeling [51:07]

Interaction with Payne Lindsey Maggie and Payne reminisce about their collaboration, sharing light-hearted moments and personal anecdotes that highlight their chemistry and mutual respect. They reflect on Payne’s past ventures and their journey together in creating the podcast.

"I love to pick on Payne because it's just so easy. Like, I just adore the man, and he's just so easy to pick on." — Maggie Freeling [39:56]

Conclusion As the episode wraps up, Maggie and John express gratitude to their listeners, encourage ongoing engagement through Instagram and Discord, and tease upcoming episodes with new structures and content adjustments. They emphasize their commitment to continuously improving the podcast based on audience feedback.

"We are going to take a week break, but when we come back, we're gonna have a fresh set of episodes and we are going to tweak things slightly." — John Street [51:07]

Notable Moments with Pets Adding a personal touch, Maggie shares charming behind-the-scenes interactions with her cats during recording sessions, showcasing the lighter side of podcast production.

"There are a lot of layers to this story, and there is no shortage of strong opinions, Sally. And if that is the case, then it's also potentially the unsolved murder of three people..." — Maggie Freeling [30:43]

Listener Reviews and Closing Remarks The hosts share various listener reviews, both positive and critical, reaffirming their commitment to authenticity and continuous improvement. They sign off by reiterating the importance of listener participation and teasing future content.

"Please keep sending your questions and we will try to feature you in another upcoming Q and A." — Maggie Freeling [51:07]

Final Thoughts This Listener Q&A episode offers a blend of professional insights, personal anecdotes, and direct engagement with the audience, making it a valuable listen for both long-time fans and newcomers to Up and Vanished Weekly.

Transcript

[Maggie Freeling]

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[Payne Lindsay]

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[John Street]

Up and Vanish Weekly is released every Wednesday and brought to you absolutely free, but for one week early access and ad free listening. Subscribe to Tenderfoot plus at tenderfootplus.com or on Apple Podcasts if you're already a subscriber. Thank you for your support.

[Maggie Freeling]

This podcast discusses mature and sensitive content, including descriptions of violence that may be triggering for some audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Hey y'all. Welcome to a very special episode of up and Vanish Weekly. Our first bonus episode for the series. And I'm not alone today. I'm here with my producer, John John. Hello.

[John Street]

Hey Maggie. Thank you. I appreciate it. Typically, I'm working behind the scenes with our team, adding a bunch of appointments to your calendar, sending you countless emails, but despite me badgering you nonstop, thank you for letting me sit down with you.

[Maggie Freeling]

Well, I feel like both of us kind of need to get to know each other. Like we met in Atlanta, but it was all work. So I think this is going to be good for both of us.

[John Street]

So, Maggie, obviously we're sitting down. We had kind of a plan in place of what we were going to talk about. But as I understand it, you actually got some breaking news about a case that you've been working on for a while or keeping track with.

[Maggie Freeling]

Yes, John, I just got the most amazing news. So a man I have been in touch with for a very long time, his name is Andre Brown. He is a man who says he was wrongfully convicted. Andre just did not get a fair defense. He did not get a fair trial. It was overturned. His conviction was vacated. Two years ago, Andre came home. We all celebrated. He got to finally meet his eight year old son in person, not behind bars. He's been living an incredible life for two years, like part of the community. The district attorney in the Bronx, Darcelle Clark, everyone can go boo her. She appealed it, the decision. And Christmas, he was called. This past Christmas, 2024, he was called and told he needs to return to prison because they're actually reversing the decision to vacate his conviction on a technicality. So for four months now, we've been petitioning to keep Andre out of prison. We've been begging with Governor Kathy Hochul to grant clemency. But today there was a massive press conference the day before he goes back to prison, two days before he goes back. And Chuck Schumer got involved and said, hold on a second, what is going on here? So incredible news. He is not going back for the foreseeable future. They're going to reopen everything. And I am elated right now.

[John Street]

Man, that's huge. Especially because it's a case that you've been tracking for such a long time. And I know that so many of the cases that we cover on this show and you know, across the other projects that we work on, it's like you. The more you look into a case, the more connected you feel, the more you feel for the victim and their family. And you know, it almost in some ways can feel like a part of your extended family and so totally understand where you're coming from on that.

[Maggie Freeling]

It's absolutely my family. And as you know, I just got back from Seattle. I just got back from the Innocence Network conference.

[John Street]

And welcome back, by the way. How was the trip there?

[Maggie Freeling]

So it's really cool. There's like lots of panels. It's all like criminal justice, criminal legal system related. There Are experts on all different kinds of topics, reviewing habeas petitions, forensics, like, everything you would need to appeal your case if you have claims of innocence. Almost 300 guys, it was like 285 guys this year were exonerated or had just been exonerated. 90 of them were there for the first time. So it's truly magical.

[John Street]

That's pretty crazy.

[Maggie Freeling]

And it's actually funny. One of my favorite funny, lighthearted moments from the conference is actually mostly lighthearted. It's a celebration. But is all these people, men and women, are conditioned to wake up super early in prison. Like, you know, roll call is like 4 or 5am and that is a conditioning. If you ask anyone that's been institutionalized, you are conditioned. You are a clock. Like, you cannot miscount. Your body is awake at 5am so at this conference and everyone's like, partying, celebrating, having fun, chatting it up at the bar all night. I mean, they're like zombies. You have these guys that went to sleep at 1 and are back awake at 5. I'm like, dude, you know, you could sleep till 9. They're like, no, I literally can't. These guys are just like drunk zombies up and about because they're so institutionalized to be up at 5am so it's really that. That I thought was kind of a. A. A funny moment.

[John Street]

So I'm curious, you know, since we're talking about traveling, like, do you like to fly? Do you, like, are you a good flyer? Like, what. Where are you kind of at on that?

[Maggie Freeling]

My flying skills are well established. I take a Xanax, head to the bar, get a few drinks, pop an edible. By the time the flight takes off, I don't know, I'm on a plane. So I think that's the ultimate maneuver. I don't. If I'm going down, I don't want to even know where I am, so.

[John Street]

So you don't even care about flying?

[Maggie Freeling]

Basically, I don't care only because I'm not on this planet at that point. So, like, I feel like that's how I have to be because I know if I start thinking about it, I care very much.

[John Street]

We're supposed to have like a medical disclaimer right here, but, like, don't. Don't take Maggie's advice when you fly.

[Maggie Freeling]

I feel like no one should ever take my advice on anything medical. Maybe like journalistic and emotional. Nothing medical. I also schedule a day in advance so I don't show up to something I need to do in that condition.

[John Street]

Smart.

[Maggie Freeling]

Okay, John, I know you did not invite me here today to talk about how I make myself a straight up dark elliptic when I fly. So what are we doing?

[John Street]

No, but that is very good insight and I'm glad we got to cover that. I think today we're trying to keep it pretty laid back. I think it would be good to let listeners get to know you a little bit more. We're off to a great start, so kudos to you on that. I think it would be good to give fans and listeners a behind the scenes look into the show. But the big takeaway for today is we've got some listener questions that I'd like to ask. You also want to briefly mention real quick at the top of the episode. We'll be off next week, but when we come back, we're going to have some new episodes and we're going to talk a little bit more about that later on. Try to keep everybody in suspense. Make sure you stick around for the end of the episode so you can learn a little bit more about that. But first, let's jump into some of these listener questions. The first one comes from Discord comes from Caitlin Downs. And Caitlin says, what's your current book recommendation, if you have one, and why Caitlin?

[Maggie Freeling]

I love this question. So I have very minimal time to read. So when I read, it's going to be intentional and it's going to be hopefully a banger. So I do have two in the recent years that I've read. It's not what I'm currently reading, but recent publications. So the first one is by my mentor, Maria Hinojosa, once I was you. And it's her memoir about coming to the United States as a little girl from Mexico and becoming one of the first, if not the first, major Latina journalists that was on national television. She was a MSNBC CNN correspondent. She's an incredible journalist. So it's really timely right now, I think if you care about immigration and a lot of what's going on. Maria's memoir is one of my favorites, and not just because she's my mentor. I think it's really beautiful. And the second is more true crime related. If you have not read Lost Girls by Robert Kolker, I highly suggest you do that. This came out a while ago, kind of right around when they were finding the women's bodies. Um, but it's still the penultimate book on the Gilgo Beach, Long island serial killer investigation. He's currently in the new documentary that came out. But if you want to read his book. I suggest it because John did, you know, I'm from there. And I thought it was my father, so.

[John Street]

Are you serious?

[Maggie Freeling]

I'm. Yes, I did. For a very long time, I thought my father was the Long island serial killer.

[John Street]

And have you conclusively come to the. To the decision that he's not?

[Maggie Freeling]

Yeah. So it's my stepdad, not my bio dad. For anyone who knows my bio dad, not him. Yeah. I had to actually really ask my mother, like, where was dad on these date? Like, I need to know things about him because there's a lot of weird connections to him and me and Long island and Lisk. Like, my parents were gonna buy the house that Shannon Gilbert was seen at. It went up for sale and it was selling for cheap because it was like the murder house on Long Island. And my dad was like, we're getting this. And my mom, like, toured that house two times.

[John Street]

Did they know, like, what had happened there?

[Maggie Freeling]

Oh, yeah, they knew. Oh, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You couldn't live on Long island and go to Gilgo beach and not know. You know, like, I grew up going to Go Go beach as a kid and 2011. I remember hearing these things.

[John Street]

That's crazy. Okay, so another listener question. This one comes from Instagram. This one's from Tears for Fears. So they were commenting on one of your posts and they said, love your shirt. I'm not sure what shirt they're talking about. I don't know what shirt you were wearing in this video, but I know.

[Maggie Freeling]

What shirt I was wearing.

[John Street]

Okay. They say, I love your shirt. Any other favorite hardcore bands or just favorite bands? Slash, genre of music in general?

[Maggie Freeling]

I was wearing a CRO mag shirt. Really old New York hardcore bands. And we already know I'm from New York. I grew up in the hardcore scene, so a lot of those kinds of shows. I love Agnostic Front. I actually just saw Agnostic Front in Austin. That was super crazy to see one of my, like, childhood favorite bands from, like, just og New York in Austin. So that was cool. But, like, music that I really love is, like, old goth, a lot of 80s stuff. Sisters of Mercy is one of my favorite bands. You know, Duran Duran. I'm really just an 80s girl with some, like, New York hardcore thrown in. But for this person who I feel like might know other obscure stuff, Nausea is one of the best bands from New York ever. They are my, like, top favorite band ever.

[John Street]

That's very cool. What's. Is there one band that you wish you could see that you haven't seen.

[Maggie Freeling]

You know, I did see Sisters of Marty recently. And here's the thing. I think it's like don't meet your heroes. It's almost like don't see your old 80s bands live. Like, don't do wasn't great both times I saw them. But you know what? Like, I didn't care. I'm still gonna go and I'm still gonna dance and I'm still gonna have fun.

[John Street]

So have you, have you reached that age where you just feel like you're way too old to be going to shows now?

[Maggie Freeling]

Okay, well, I, for anyone who likes metal, I was recently seeing Abbath slash Immortal. I was at the Hell's Heroes Fest, which is like a glam rock festival. A lot of legendary bands played. They're one of my favorite. And I was head banging so hard I put my neck out. And there really needs to be a disclaimer like, do not headbang after 30. I'm 36. I am well past the head banging age. You know, it's so funny though, is like going to shows now. Like some of us or a lot of us are like, we're so old, we don't give a fuck anymore. And you'll see like actual orthopedic shoes, like at shows. I'm like, bro, I'm right there with you. I'm ready for the orthopedic shoes. So ready.

[John Street]

No shame. That's amazing.

[Maggie Freeling]

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[Maggie Freeling]

All right, we're back.

[John Street]

So we've got a bunch more listener questions coming up, but I do think it's a good segue for us to just pause real quick and to mention to listeners that if you haven't checked out our Instagram page, you can check it out at UAV Weekly and our Discord. Discord, GG upandvanished. You can chat with our team and get plugged in with the rest of the UAV community. We have a really good listener base and we appreciate everybody so much, but just wanted to get that out here at the top of the episode. Maggie, a lot of our listeners probably know more about pain than they know about you, so I'd like for listeners to get to know you a little bit better. So obviously you're the host of up and Vanish Weekly. You've also hosted Wrongful Conviction, Unjust and Unsolved, several other shows. I am kind of curious. Was it always your lifelong dream to grow up and be, like, a broke podcaster?

[Maggie Freeling]

No, John. In fact, a lot of children don't dream of being broke podcasters when they're younger. Well, podcasting wasn't a thing. It's interesting. I did take a podcasting class on GarageBand in 2009. So let me just say for the pains of the world we can get to when I was very critical of pain. I've been here for a minute. Okay, I've been here. I was GarageBand podcasting. So I started with English. I was a dystopian literature and Victorian literature major that I believe they go hand in hand. And when I had to start doing creative writing is when I realized that the reason I liked these stories is because they were kind of, what's the word I'm looking for? Time capsules of these really dark times, the Victorian era. So I realized I like them because they were time capsules. And what I really wanted to do was tell human stories. And it wasn't creative writing for me, it was journalism. So very quickly, sophomore year of college, I switched to journalism, and I have been here. I've been a journalist forever. I do not like when my excessive hundreds of thousands dollars of degrees are reduced to podcaster. But here we are. I guess I'm a podcaster, but I call Myself a journalist. I have a journalism degree, got my master's in audio journalism.

[John Street]

So are you currently working in anything else outside of podcasting, though? Are there other mediums that you're still actively doing journalism in?

[Maggie Freeling]

I generally always do audio. I'm trying to slip back into, like, the public radio world. I did really like being there, like, knowing people are going to be listening to your piece. It's airing on the radio. But this medium is wonderful. It's allowed me a lot of opportunities. Like this one story that I have coming out in June. I'm very excited. It's an investigation I've been working on for two years out of Kentucky. So that one I'm very, very excited for. And of course, I always have wrongful conviction, which I think you mentioned, but, you know, wrongful conviction, up and vanished or my babies. And then I'm always doing some sort of investigative project.

[John Street]

So is there a case that you haven't investigated, but that's always stuck with you? You've always, like, had it in the back of your mind, you know, one day I'm going to get there. One day I'm going to, you know, make time to look further into this.

[Maggie Freeling]

I. There's a couple. There's one that I have brought a friend into who is also a producer that I can have look at some documents and throw ideas back and forth with. And we've been working on one that spoiler is on Long island, so it may or may not be related to a major case that people know from Long Island. So that's what I'm really excited about. There's a lot.

[John Street]

Yeah. And obviously, as we're trying to find cases for up and Vanish Weekly, a lot of the cases that we end up picking up are cases that you've been sitting on for a while and cases that you've had an interest in looking deeper into. And so I think that's one of the great things about this platform, is that we get to talk about cases that others submit to us, but also cases that are of interest to you and to pain and others as well.

[Maggie Freeling]

I love that this podcast for me is different. I really like doing a different case every week. Like, I call this my fun podcast. Whereas, like, not that my others aren't fun, but they're like, it's a lot of research and a lot of legal jargon and stuff like that where, like, diving into these, it's more. It feels very human, and I really. I really enjoy it.

[John Street]

Yeah. Totally different production process as well. Producing a limited series versus like a weekly where we get to maybe not go quite as deep, but we get to, you know, cycle through a lot more stories a lot more quickly.

[Maggie Freeling]

And. And the guests and the discussions are. What I really appreciate is people just having good ideas and hypothesizing about what could have happened. I know a lot of people don't like that, and I know sometimes that's a taboo to speculate about what happened, but I think it's helpful for people because it can give answers to mysteries or at least help people grasp onto something and understand something in a way that maybe they hadn't before.

[John Street]

Yeah, I mean, Maggie, you've looked at so many cases over the years. Probably one of the cases that a lot of listeners may remember that you looked into was the case of Maura Murray. And actually, one of our listeners dropped us on Discord. They said, Maggie did a series on the disappearance of Maura Murray after her research. What does she think happened? Also, does she think it's possible that Israel Keys was in the area and could have played a role in her disappearance?

[Maggie Freeling]

I remember we went down that rabbit hole. We spoke to law enforcement. It just doesn't seem like he was in the area at the time. So, no, I don't think it was Israel Keys. I think with Maura. There is new news that has come out that James Renner has been posting about. There was a fingerprint that has now been matched to somebody from her car. Now, whether that was just a friend or it was someone with her that night, unclear. But we now have a name of a person's fingerprint who matches in her car. And he was a young West Point cadet that she had some kind of relationship with. So if you believe the tandem driver theory that she went away to maybe a party, someone was driving with her. A lot of people that believe in that theory, like Renner, are really grasping onto this fingerprint and this identification, I think. And I have always thought that she started walking, and she started walking after the bus driver saw her. And right after he pulled away, someone pulled up next to her and she got in the car. Whether that's a tandem driver or not, I don't think it was. I truly think that she started walking and this is something I would do. I really put myself in her shoes. And I stood out there in the same day in winter. It was fucking freezing. I was covered. Literally. I had producers taping, like, what are those hand warmer things to my body? Cause I was so cold. I think she started to walk and said, fuck this, and the first car that pulled up, she got in. Because I could see myself doing that. In a desperate situation. You think you're going to walk. You think you're going to get somewhere. It is way too cold. It is just way too cold up there. And I think that that's what happened. I think it was someone that had bad intentions. I think that's where we're arriving at. I think I never thought she ran away. Someone did something to her.

[John Street]

So I know for the work that you do on wrongful conviction, you know, a lot of the. The perspective is, you know, systemic issues, you know, what. What happens behind the scenes that leads to, like, tragic outcomes. And so kind of in that same vein, you know, one listener left us this question on Apple Crater 2261 says, I want to dive into the uncertainty of eyewitness testimony and how inaccurate it really is, how it's swayed by people's perspective and their life experiences. This topic fascinates me. And then the question really is, should eyewitness testimony be allowed in court?

[Maggie Freeling]

I think it's similar to a polygraph. I think it's a good resource. But we know it is fallible. Roughly 70 to 75% of DNA exoneration cases involve eyewitness misidentification. 70 to 75%. That is a very high error rate.

[John Street]

That's crazy.

[Maggie Freeling]

And that is a problem that I have is so many wrongful conviction cases that I look into, they were exclusively convicted on the word of one person or two people. Or in this Kentucky case that I'm working on, that I hope everyone listens to in June, multiple eyewitnesses with misidentifications or just lying about identifications. Even when witnesses are doing lineups, there is influence from the police if it's not a double blind. And what that means, if the police know who the suspect is in the lineup, that's even problematic because they can influence the person giving the lineup to. The witness shouldn't even know who the suspect is in that lineup. Because so many times, like the listener said, we see influence. We know that people from other races, it's harder to identify somebody. You know, we always chalk that up to racism, but it's just inherent in us. It is more difficult to identify somebody from another race or ethnicity than your own. So there's so many factors. And so I think it's a good tool. I think it's a tool to someone to say, I saw him there. Great. Now let's find some evidence. I love that question. Thank you.

[John Street]

So obviously you Care really deeply about all the stories that you tell, all the cases that we look into here for up and Vanish Weekly. But I'm curious, if you weren't a journalist, what do you think that you would do?

[Maggie Freeling]

Okay. There's many other lives that Maggie could have. I am a very passionate person. That's why I do this work. But it also makes me a very, like, aggressive person. So I would love to be some sort of, like, Muay Thai fighter, like, MMA fighter. Like, I'm just like, I love fighting. Maybe in my 40s, I'll pick that up. I don't know. I just, like, love watching women's mma. And I'm like, this is fucking incredible. Like, these women are badasses. And then wouldn't it just be cool if it was like, oh, and she, like, gets people out of prison on the side. That's an alternate life. I mean, anything that's really helping people or animals. I partially moved to Texas because I have a dream of opening a rescue for really any animal. I want to just have, like, a sanctuary. I've been inspired by some places in New York. This one place called Woodstock Sanctuary. I love it. So, yeah, I mean, I think I could do both of those things with what I'm doing now, maybe.

[John Street]

Yeah. So that reminds me, because you actually were recently on an episode of Stuff they don't want you to Know, Matt Frederick, who we've had on a couple times here for up and Vanish Weekly. So I learned something new about you. You had a very different career path before you started this chapter of your life.

[Maggie Freeling]

Oh, yeah.

[John Street]

Different aspirations. So I want you to tell everybody about it.

[Maggie Freeling]

Okay. I forgot about this. And I. They're funny that they found that. So I worked when I was in college. When I became a journalist, I wanted to go into conservation writing again. I love animals and the environment, and so I worked at the U.S. fish and Wildlife for a bit, and I was writing, like, endangered species reports. Yeah, that was a part of my life, but it's still very similar. Like, I would have, like, an animal shelter. But, yeah, I. I just wanted to help. I've always just wanted to help. And I think that was really when I realized that's what I wanted to do, is I interned at a travel company. It was my first journalism job, and it was great. I loved the experience. I loved being like, wow, journalism. I could go to all these different places, but I didn't feel like it was purposeful to be writing an article about wine and cheese in the Alps and travel tourism. I felt it was doing the opposite of just me as a person and is helping people and I guess helping rich people with their wine decisions is great, but it's not for me. So I very specifically was like, whatever I do in journalism is going to help, whether that's working at Fish and wildlife, writing endangered species reports or working in prisons. Yeah.

[John Street]

And it's amazing because obviously you've made such an impactful career out of everything that you've done.

[Maggie Freeling]

Be back after a short break.

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[John Street]

Hi, this is Jevon, your blinds.com design consultant.

[Maggie Freeling]

Oh, wow, A real person. Yep.

[John Street]

I'm here to help with everything from selecting the perfect window treatments to.

[Maggie Freeling]

Well, I've got a complicated project.

[John Street]

No problem. I can even help schedule a professional measuring install. We can also send you samples fast and free.

[Maggie Freeling]

Hmm. I just might have to do more.

[John Street]

Whatever you need.

[Maggie Freeling]

So the first room we're looking at is for shopblinds.com now and get up to 50% off with minimum purchase. Blinds.com rules and restrictions may apply. All right, we're back.

[John Street]

One thing that I have gotten to to know about you, even from afar, is that you. You love your cats. You are a very dedicated cat mom. And even from time to time, they make an appearance on our recording sessions. I think we might have a little bit of an excerpt to play for listeners so that they know what I mean. So let's. Let's cue that up here real quick.

[Maggie Freeling]

Chicken. You wanna get out of there, honey? Chicken. Can you not go there, honey? Wow. Every, like, appliance just decided to turn on at the same time. Okay. Hey, y'all. Welcome to another episode of up and Vanish Weekly. I'm your. That's a cat, not an appliance. It didn't take long for authorities to start to piece together a narrative. Wow, cat fights. Here's Rob with the details. Honey, what are you doing? Here's Rob with more. Are you done squirming? I got her. Here's what, Lieutenant Squeaky Girl, you're gonna get locked outside because there is evidence to suggest that the same person killed all three people, two of which. Honey, it's one of those cases that makes me want to yell. I'm gonna fucking punch this cat in the face. Sally. I would never do that. You're so tiny. You're five pounds. But tell John that you're an annoying and mommy can't record right now. There are a lot of layers to this story, and there is no shortage of strong opinions, Sally. And if that is the case, then it's also potentially the unsolved murder of three people, because there's evidence to. I'll kill this cat. Honey, are you having fun? You must stop. Okay, sorry. I just got a kitten, and she's really obnoxious. All right, Please, nobody call animal control. Like, none of these cats get abused or punched. It's just like I said. I'm. I should do mma. Like, I just, like, yell, and then I'm like, love everyone. Everyone is so perfect and special and fluffy. They're perfect. But, yeah, recording with a kitten is not productive at all.

[John Street]

Well, listeners, now you get to see a side of Maggie that I get to see, that I get to hear. Our other producer, Sean, we're kept on our toes all the time. We never know what's going to happen when Maggie sends her recordings over.

[Maggie Freeling]

That's true. John, you should tell them how long this recording took. All of the interruptions I've had, my.

[John Street]

Tally marks are in hours at this point, so it's great. And speaking of Sean, he also sent over some questions. I'm not sure why he didn't just ask you himself. He decided to just wait until we had a Q and A to ask questions. So, Sean, I guess I'm going to ask your questions for you, even though you're not here. So his first question, he knows you're from New York, and he was curious what the transition to Austin's been like. You know, how long does it take? What's that transition been like for you?

[Maggie Freeling]

I'm a born and raised New Yorker. I am like blunt, sassy and fast. Everything is fast. Everything, I mean, to me is normal paced, but I guess it's fast. So the transition has been odd. I love Texans. They don't love New Yorkers.

[John Street]

Have you had some good, like, run ins with like local Texans there?

[Maggie Freeling]

So I have a background in public radio, in audio that is aired nationally. So I can't have my Long Island New York accent. So I do have a fairly neutral accent when I'm speaking to people. It's like code switching. When I'm in New York, forget about it. When I'm down here, it's different. I guess we just have an energy. People will just. Even when I think I'm the chillest, I'm like edible, smoking weed. People are like, you're intense. And I'm like, what do you mean? I'm. I'm literally the chillest I've ever been right now. And people just like, can sense that east coast energy. It's just there. And we cannot escape it. I think 20 years here, I will not escape my east coast energy. It's built into us.

[John Street]

So Sean had one final question. I think he knew kind of the lineup of the next several episodes that we've got on the docket. And I don't want to let too much out of the bag, but let's say that maybe one of our upcoming episodes is out of this world, you know, Pun intended. Um, so Sean wants to know if you're open minded to the supernatural.

[Maggie Freeling]

Yes, I am very open minded to the supernatural. Except I don't want to be part of it. Like, I don't need to see it. I don't want to know. Like, I don't need proof. Which is really weird for a journalist to say, but I think it just scares the shit out of me. Like, I don't need a ghost to be like, what's up? I'm real. Like, I know you're there. I don't, I don't need it. I don't need it. And more open to, like UAPs and extraterrestrials. Like, I. I fully believe there is other life out there. I think you're ridiculous if you poo poo that the supernatural I'm very open to and I might need proof for that, but I don't want to see the proof. So I don't know where that leaves me. I don't want to see it.

[John Street]

But curiously disinterested, you know. Well, if UAPs are your thing, then spoiler alert. You should Come check out some of our upcoming episodes because we have. We've got a case that talks a little bit about that.

[Maggie Freeling]

So we're going to have a couple. Maybe we have one for sure. And I know there's a couple I'm looking at doing.

[John Street]

Fingers crossed, you know, up and Vanished Weekly was a project that our team has really had on the back of our minds for years. We knew we wanted to create something weekly, we wanted to give up and Vanished fans. Something more consistent than just a long form series. But it's also hard. I mean, Payne is a busy guy. He's got his hands on a lot of different projects. So we knew that we had to find the right way to make this show happen. And one day it just kind of clicked that he wanted to team up with you. And he pulled the idea off the shelf of a weekly and decided to make it happen.

[Maggie Freeling]

Okay, how this show happened is great because I thought we were gonna make something totally different. So that's really funny. And what did you think we were making? Well, I thought because we were talking about aliens for hours at Crimecon when we were talking about making this, and so I thought Payne and I were gonna double team on some, like, alien investigation shit. And then I got this, which is equally as amazing, but it was not what I thought I was doing. I was like, yeah, we're totally gonna explore ETS and UAPs, and we're gonna go out to Joshua Tree and go to, like, giant rock. Like, I, you know, I thought it was like, Starsky and Hutch. UAPs?

[John Street]

How did you and Pain even get connected originally?

[Maggie Freeling]

So Pain comes and, you know, he makes up and Vanished. It's freaking great. He gets on the mat for the Tara Grinstead case. Everything that goes down with that goes down. And the whole time just like, me and my friends are like, who the is this, like, skinny white boy that comes on the scene and, like, just fucking does all this stuff, obviously out of jealousy. And then I met Pain and was like, oh, my God, you're just like a little grandma's boy. Like, that's. You're just. You're just an angel. You're just a kind, humble angel who wants to do good work and, like, doesn't care that there's haters out there. Like, me being like, we don't like you. And I just. I loved him. And I told him I'm an honest person. And I said, like, hey, I thought these things about you, and it's pretty cool you're not any of those. He was like, wait, what?

[John Street]

So I remember when we first sat down to do the original recording for the Jody Husentruck case, that was actually something that two of you talked about, was you getting, you know, to. To be familiar with Payne, who he was at that point. He was also, you know, still building a music career, and the two of you kind of joked about that a little bit. So I think we. We have a small sample of that recording, so we'll. We'll go ahead and roll that.

[Maggie Freeling]

I think that was pretty good, actually.

[Payne Lindsay]

I think so. I can't tell. Yeah, we're. We seem like we're pretty. We got. We got rhythm.

[Maggie Freeling]

Yeah, obviously. I mean, you were a rapper, so you know how it goes.

[Payne Lindsay]

I mean, but that didn't work out so much.

[Maggie Freeling]

Your failed rap career.

[Payne Lindsay]

Not many people can say that in the Trap true crime podcast community. I mean, at least that's a cool thing in that way.

[Maggie Freeling]

Like, that's what makes you so special, though, Payne. You. You have a failed rap career. But it's like, it's so. It's so wonderful now. Like, it's just great.

[Payne Lindsay]

It just is what it is.

[Maggie Freeling]

It is.

[Payne Lindsay]

It's. It's trapped in the Internet forever, so I can't do a damn thing about it, you know?

[Maggie Freeling]

But it's so funny going back and watching these up and vanished episodes and seeing, like, your transformation, too. Like, you're just. You look like a baby. But it's like, I looked the same back then, doing the Maura Murray. Like, we are so different now.

[Payne Lindsay]

You're basically saying you got so much older looking and I've aged better.

[John Street]

That's amazing.

[Maggie Freeling]

I really don't want people to think this is mean because I've also asked Pain, like, is this mean or you. Is it, like, are we, like, joking around like, brother, sister? And it's definitely joking. At least I hope it's joking. Pain, please let me know if it's not joking. But, like, I love to pick on Pain because it's just so easy. Like, I just adore the man, and he's just so easy to pick on. I'm sorry, Pain. I'm always gonna pick on you like a little brother.

[John Street]

Do you have a. Do you have a favorite memory with Pain?

[Maggie Freeling]

I guess one of my favorite memories was at a crime fest. We were doing. And we were doing the Staircase, and it was with Rabia and Daisy and our crew of people that you've probably know of our little pod family. And that was when Payne, like, unanimously got, like, booed for not thinking it was the owl, like, Payne on stage basically got told off about the owl theory. There was. There's really good photos of, like, people being shocked that pain doesn't believe the owl theory. So that was a couple years ago. That's one of my favorite memories.

[John Street]

We strategically kind of slid that in to the Kathleen Peterson episode as well.

[Maggie Freeling]

So he'll go after UAPs, but an owl killing someone is, like, just so out there. We'll be right back.

[Unknown]

Everyone has that friend who seems kind of perfect for Patty. That friend was Desiree. Until one day I texted her, and.

[Maggie Freeling]

She was not getting the text. So I went to Instagram. She has no Instagram anymore. And Facebook. No Facebook anymore.

[Unknown]

Desiree was gone. And there was one person who knew the answer.

[Payne Lindsay]

I am a spiritual person, a magical.

[Unknown]

Person, a witch, a gorgeous Brazilian influencer called Kat Torres, but who was hiding a secret from Wondery. Based on my smash hit podcast, from Brazil comes a new series, Don't Cross Cat, about a search that led me to a mystery in a Texas suburb. I'm calling to check on the two missing Brazilian girls, maybe get some undercover crew there.

[Maggie Freeling]

The family are freaking out. They are locked.

[Unknown]

I'm Chico Felitti. You can listen to Don't Cross Cat on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maggie Freeling]

All right, we're back.

[John Street]

So Dale, Dougie, one of our listeners, sent this question in from working on the series. What case has affected you the most?

[Maggie Freeling]

We covered the Tony Torres case with Kristen Seavey, and I had never heard of that, and it just really stuck with me because of how clear it was who did this and how solvable it was, and yet how he was never found. There were no convictions. There were no charges that I remember. And just how sad it happened to just such a good person. And I know we're all sick of the, like, lighting up the room. Truly, I'm fucking sick of it. And I think it was Rabia, but I'm gonna say it, too. If and when I die, don't fucking tell people I lit up the room. You can be like, she was a spicy bitch, and she loved her cats, and we loved her, too. But she was, like, really angry at the world because of the injustices. You could say that. But he really was like, just photos of him. Like, something about Tony Torres just stuck out to me. And I really want people to listen to that one, but that one just broke me. I mean, there's obviously so many to force Johnson. You know, it's a wrongful conviction. He's still in prison. That's heartbreaking. You know, everyone who is still missing, those families don't even know what happened. So it's not even. There's no. There's nothing tangible to have closure with. And that's what happened with Tony. So that one really sticks with me.

[John Street]

So another listener wanted to know, what sort of measures do you use to balance the show's unique storytelling with investigative depth? Especially given the show is more fast paced compared to the original up and banished.

[Maggie Freeling]

I think this is the really hard balance of, like, how do you tell a story? How do you take everything about somebody and what happened to them and condense it into 40 minutes and put in like expose with guests? You know, it's. It's really difficult. And I think that's one of the things. It's like, how do you fit in personality, making it a show that people want to come back and listen to and often that is a little more light hearted and be true to the content. It's really hard in True Crime because you often have to look at victims and victimology and a lot of people don't want to do that. A lot of people don't want to drag up things about a deceased person and talk bad about them in death or a missing person. But I think that's important to do. And I respect the podcasts that go and say it, that say, like, hey, she was doing drugs. Is this a possible thing? Like, there's so many people in True Crime, they're like, why are we going to talk about her doing drugs? Well, because the people that sold her drugs might not have been good. And so let's go down that route. I think sometimes what's even harder is like, we want to cover all kinds of cases, and some cases there's no, not much information to cover it. And I think for me, that's even harder being like, I want to get this person's story out there, but there's not much to say. Um, and so we're working with that too. We're trying to find some guests that are interesting that could like, carry an episode in the context of this person's case that we want to talk about.

[John Street]

Yeah, that's a great point because, I mean, not only for this, for this show, but for all of our series of Tenderfoot. I mean, we get a lot of cases submitted to us by fans, listeners, family members of people who have, you know, disappeared or, you know, they believe have been murdered and there's not been justice. And it can be really difficult to get These submissions know that these people are wanting there to be coverage, but not always being able to do that because there's not always enough information to, you know, talk about it for 40 minutes, let alone, you know, 10 to 12 hours over, you know, a limited series. And so that's also really challenging as well. It's not easy to make a weekly show. A lot of time, a lot of effort goes into it. I mean, there's a whole team behind the scenes, you know, shout out to the rest of our team, you know, Jamie, Carolyn, our researcher. Dylan Caroline on the marketing side. So there's a lot of people who put their hands on a project like this. One thing I do appreciate about you, Maggie, is that despite the hard work and all the effort that goes into making this show, you also do try and keep it light. You try not to take yourself too seriously. I'm sure listeners are picking up on that even here today. Sometimes I feel like you might forget that your mic is on and that what you record is gonna end up over to me and Sean. So here's what I mean by that.

[Maggie Freeling]

Wait, am I recording? Yes. Okay. All right. So I really like this new setup, so let's make it work. All right, Cheryl. Cheryl Lamont Pearson, let's go. All right, Jennings. Eight. Let's go. @ the time of her disappearance, Donna Lass was truly sorry. There's outdoor plumbing stuff, whatever. The thing is, eight young women, some teenagers with their. Hold on. Got some burps. Okay. In depth documentary filmmaking on trials. My bracelets are making noise. I think that should be good. Yeah, maybe my brain is dead. Okay. Let's hope I hit record. I did excellent.

[John Street]

I don't even know what to say.

[Maggie Freeling]

I'm always burping.

[John Street]

We've had just a really good response from our listeners. Wanted to make sure we take a quick minute, even just to shout out a few of the reviews that we received on Apple Podcasts. AUFC 2017 says the cold opens and music. Take me right back to the first podcast I ever listened to, season one of up and Vanished. Becky Overle said, this is one of my favorite new podcasts. Love both Payne and Maggie. The cases they cover are really good. Looking forward to many more episodes. Keep up the great work. Britblt said, I tune into basically everything Payne does, and at this point, UAV Weekly is no different. Also listening as a subscriber, which is so much better without ads. Love that. That kind of nice. Shout out there to Tenderfoot Plus. So if you want to listen to our episodes a week early and you want to listen to them without ads. You can go check out Tenderfoot plus. Lots of benefits there. And then Padfoot Witch said, it's a good listen. About true crime. They do weekly updates on different cases. They don't go into much depth about cases, but it's just enough information to spread the word. So I think that even goes back to what we were just talking about of we want to give enough to be able to cover the case without necessarily having to get too lost in the weeds. But that being said, Maggie, it hasn't all been loved. We have had some very outspoken listeners. They aren't pulling any punches. I thought some of these were very. Were very funny, and so I wanted to bring them. The first one says, I can't listen to this awful AI Narrator. The hosts are great, but the soulless AI story reader detracts from the effort to humanize victims and families. Sad that I've lost a formerly great show in my library. This one is funny to me because the narrator on episodes that Payne is not narrating is actually a real person. It's actually one of the original voices from the Upland Vanished series. His name is Rob Ricotta. He's a super talented musician, a voiceover artist. He's been a part of the team really, since the very beginning. And I think we actually have some tape from him on the very first episode of up and Vanished. So we'll play that. This might sound familiar to those of you who listened to the first season of up and Vanished.

[Payne Lindsay]

Who would want to hurt Tara? Let's recap the night of October 22nd when Tara just completely vanished. I'll have my friend Rob describe the scene.

[Maggie Freeling]

Saturday, October 22, 2005.

[Unknown]

Tara went to a beauty pageant during.

[Maggie Freeling]

The day, and then she attended a.

[Unknown]

Friend'S barbecue later that night, just a.

[John Street]

Couple blocks away from her home. All right, so there you go. Definitive proof that Rob is real. Rob, sorry you're getting hated on in the comments, but just I want to assure everybody he's a real person. We're not using an AI Voice to narrate this series. We also do try and take the feedback that our listeners give us, you know, see what we can do to improve the show, make it better. Come back with. With something that. That is a little bit more better and improved. So with that in mind, I mean, we are going to take a. A week break, but when we come back, we're gonna, you know, have a fresh set of episodes and we are going to tweak things slightly. So Maggie if you want to just kind of run through maybe some of what listeners can expect.

[Maggie Freeling]

So at first we thought it would be really fun to have a lot of podcast friends on, but then we were like, you know, we need more experts. So we want to bring on more of a balance between your favorite podcasters that you hear and journalists and experts that you might know, you might not know, but can speak from more of a firsthand knowledge about the cases we cover. Maybe they've worked the case. Maybe, you know, they have that experience. So we're gonna try and be more balanced and then we are gonna restructure it a little bit. So we're gonna open the episodes with more setting the stage for listeners. We tried it a different way. We heard you. We're gonna try this and get the beats of the case a little earlier in the episode, and we think that might help make things clearer for listeners. Truly, we love hearing from y'all. I didn't even know I was gonna have this many questions since I'm kind of new to the Tenderfoot world. So thank y'all for reaching out, for giving feedback, for participating. Please keep sending your questions and we will try to feature you in another upcoming Q and A. Yeah, everybody, we've.

[John Street]

Loved hearing from you. Thank you so much for the feedback. Thank you for participating. Please keep sending in your questions and we'll try to feature you in an upcoming Q and A episode if we didn't get to you today. And Maggie, thank you. Thanks for taking the time to sit down and talk with listeners, let them know a little bit more about you and about the show and what happens behind the scenes and listeners. Again, you can check us out on our Instagram page avweekly, and you can engage with other listeners there as well as our team. You can also check us out on Discord, Discord, GG upandvanished. So again, we're taking next week off. Then we'll come back with a fresh new set of episodes. See Everybody then.

[Payne Lindsay]

Up and Vanish Weekly is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your hosts are Maggie Freeling and myself, Payne Lindsay. The show is written by Maggie Freeling, myself and John Street. Executive producers are Donald Albright and myself. Lead producer is John Street. Additional production by Meredith Stedman and Mike Rooney. Research for the series by Jamie Albright, Celicia Stanton and Carolyn Tallmadge. Edit and mix by Dylan Harrington and Sean Nurney. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Artwork by Byron McCoy. Original music by Makeup and Vanity set. Special thanks to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at uta, Beck Media and Marketing and the Nord Group. For more podcasts like up and Vanish weekly, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us@Tenderfoot TV. Thanks for listening.