MURDERED: Asian Doe

Summary

Up and Vanished Weekly: "MURDERED: Asian Doe" – Detailed Summary

Podcast Information

• Title: Up and Vanished Weekly
• Host/Author: Tenderfoot TV
• Episode: MURDERED: Asian Doe
• Release Date: July 16, 2025

Overview In this compelling episode of Up and Vanished Weekly, hosts Maggie Freeling and Payne Lindsay delve into the mysterious case of Asian Doe, an unidentified homicide victim found among the notorious Gilgo Beach murders on Long Island. The episode explores the initial discovery, investigative challenges, recent breakthroughs, and expert insights into the complexities of identifying marginalized individuals.

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1. The Discovery of Asian Doe and the Gilgo Beach Murders

The episode opens with Maggie Freeling recounting the discovery of Asian Doe amidst a series of gruesome finds along Ocean Parkway, Long Island, in 2011. Asian Doe became one of the most sought-after unidentified victims due to the circumstances of the Gilgo Beach murders, where multiple victims were discovered over a span of months.

Notable Quote:

"Asian Doe was found along with 10 other sets of human remains off Ocean Parkway in New York in 2011... this case is literally close to home for me."
— Maggie Freeling [00:56]

Details of the Discovery:

• Location: Ocean Parkway, Suffolk County, Long Island
• Initial Findings: Eleven sets of remains, including Megan Waterman, Melissa Barthelemy, Amberlynn Costello, and Maureen Brainard Barnes (Gilgo 4).
• Asian Doe: Described as a biologically male individual appearing in women's clothing, aged 17-23, height between 5'3" to 5'9". Cause of death believed to be blunt force trauma.

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2. Investigation and Cold Case Status

As the investigation progressed, authorities grappled with identifying the victims. While most were eventually named, Asian Doe remained elusive due to factors such as potential foreign origin, transgender identity, and systemic issues within law enforcement databases.

Notable Quote:

"Everyone except Asian Doe."
— Maggie Freeling [05:47]

Challenges Encountered:

• Misclassification: Initial sketches identified Asian Doe as male, complicating identification efforts.
• Stigma of Sex Work: Many victims were sex workers, leading to underreporting and marginalization.
• Systemic Issues: Police corruption, leadership turnover, and inadequate collaboration between agencies stalled progress.

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3. Recent Developments: Arrest and Task Force Renewal

In a significant turn of events, Payne Lindsay reports the arrest of Rex Heuerman on July 13, 2023, a 59-year-old architect suspected to be the Long Island Serial Killer (LISK). However, Heuerman has not been linked to Shannon Gilbert, whose disappearance initiated the mass discovery of remains.

Notable Quote:

"But despite authorities believing they have now found LISK, he has notably not been linked to Shannon Gilbert."
— Maggie Freeling [08:31]

Key Points:

• Arrest Details: Heuerman charged with seven murders, awaiting trial.
• Shannon Gilbert's Case: Unique as authorities have details of her last moments, unlike Asian Doe.

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4. Expert Insights: Forensic Genetic Genealogy and Identification Challenges

Victor Velstra, an expert in forensic genetic genealogy specializing in LGBTQ+ cases, joins the discussion to shed light on the difficulties in identifying individuals like Asian Doe. He emphasizes the systemic gaps and cultural nuances that hinder identification.

Notable Quotes:

"There is no safety net. There's big cracks and people fall through them all the time."
— Victor Velstra [17:26]

"When we work together as a community, we can fill in the gaps that currently exist in the official systems."
— Victor Velstra [17:26]

Key Insights:

• Transgender and Queer Identification: Misclassification in databases leads to prolonged anonymity.
• Cultural Barriers: Asian Doe's possible undocumented immigration status and the one-child policy in China complicate identification.
• Genealogy Challenges: Limited representation of Southern Chinese in U.S. genetic databases impedes progress.

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5. Efforts to Identify Asian Doe

The hosts discuss ongoing efforts to bring attention to Asian Doe's case, including updated forensic sketches and community outreach to the Asian diaspora. Maggie highlights the importance of culturally sensitive approaches and the release of new facial reconstructions to aid public recognition.

Notable Quotes:

"The new task force flyer depicting the recent facial reconstruction and photos of the clothing will also be released in various Asian languages."
— Maggie Freeling [41:04]

"We want to enlist the public's help."
— Ray Tierney [42:49]

Actions Taken:

• Updated Reconstructions: More feminized sketches to reflect Asian Doe's appearance accurately.
• Multilingual Outreach: Flyers and information distributed in multiple Asian languages to reach broader communities.
• Public Appeals: Encouraging community members to review old photographs and recollections from specific locales like Lucky Chang's club.

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6. Community Engagement and Public Appeal

The episode underscores the critical role of community involvement in solving cold cases. Victor urges individuals familiar with the queer and transgender communities in New York City to revisit old memories and photographs that might hold clues to Asian Doe's identity.

Notable Quotes:

"If you're an old queer person in New York City or who used to be in New York City and you knew trans people or drag queens in New York City, you may want to take a look at your old pictures."
— Victor Velstra [37:47]

"That's crucial... things that maybe I wouldn't think of or a cishet white police officer would think of."
— Payne Lindsay [39:03]

Community Resources:

• Social Media Outreach: Victor provides his contact information for tips and case discussions.
• Local Clubs and Communities: Emphasis on establishments like Lucky Chang's as potential hubs for information.

---

7. Conclusion and Call to Action

The episode concludes with a renewed call to action from Suffolk County District Attorney Ray Tierney, emphasizing the importance of public participation in identifying Asian Doe. A reward of $2,500 is offered for any information leading to their identification.

Notable Quote:

"This is a call to action. We want to enlist the public's help."
— Ray Tierney [42:49]

Final Details:

• Estimated Age and Height: Asian Doe was 17 to 23 years old, standing approximately 5'3" to 5'9".
• Date of Death: Believed to have been killed at least five years prior to discovery, around 2006 or earlier.
• Reward: $2,500 for information leading to identification.

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Closing Remarks Maggie Freeling wraps up the episode by emphasizing the enduring mystery surrounding Asian Doe and the collective responsibility to seek justice for the unidentified victim. Listeners are encouraged to stay engaged and spread awareness to aid in solving this haunting case.

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This episode of Up and Vanished Weekly offers a thorough exploration of the Asian Doe case, highlighting the intersection of forensic science, cultural barriers, and community involvement in the pursuit of justice for marginalized individuals.

Transcript

[Maggie Freeling]

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[Maggie Freeling]

This podcast discusses mature and sensitive content, including descriptions of violence that may be triggering for some audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Hey y'. All. Welcome to up and Vanish Weekly. I'm Maggie Freeling. Today we're talking about a homicide victim who to this day remains unidentified. But that's not for lack of effort. Asian Doe, as this person has become known, is one of the most sought to identify does in the country. Asian Doe was found along with 10 other sets of human remains off Ocean Parkway in New York in 2011. Ocean Parkway is a narrow strip of highway in Suffolk County, Long island, surrounded by marshland and connecting Jones beach to Gilgo beach to Oak beach and various houses and communities along the way. I spent a lot of time at those beaches as a kid because I grew up on Long Island. Gilgo beach was one of my favorite summer spots to go, so this case is literally close to home for me. In fact, a classmate's father was one of the original persons of interest. I remember when the remains were found and it felt like the world stopped. Was there a serial killer plaguing Long Island? Who were these people? What happened to them and by whom? Everyone was talking about it, and since then, all of the victims have been identified except for one Asian Doe. And that's for a variety of reasons. Later, I'll be speaking with an expert in the field of forensic genetic genealogy about the complications of identifying folks like Asian Doe. But with the new task force and the recent arrest of the long suspected Long island serial killer, also known as Lisk, hopes of identifying Asian Dough are renewed. But what exactly happened to Asian Dough? That jump started this long search for answers. Here's Rob with the details of how Asian dough was found.

[Rob]

It's a blustery winter day in December 2010 on Long Island, New York. A police officer and his canine are searching for a woman who had been reported as missing months earlier. As the team systematically canvases the marshlands of Ocean Parkway, they stumble upon the unthinkable skeletal remains. The woman is eventually identified as 22 year old Megan Waterman. But authorities could never have imagined that this unexpected discovery would be the first of many mysteries that would intensify over the coming months. Two days later, authorities recovered three additional victims. 24 year old Melissa Barthelemy, 27 year old Amberlynn Costello, and 25 year old Maureen Brainard Barnes. All of the women were found just a quarter of a mile from each other and each was wrapped in burlap. The scene was like something out of a horror movie. In addition to Megan Waterman, the women would become known as the Gilgo 4. But the work of authorities was just beginning. Between 2010 and 2011, a total of 11 sets of remains were discovered in the surrounding area. Additional victims would be identified as 20 year old Jessica Taylor, 24 year old Valerie Mack, 26 year old Tanya Jackson, her baby Tatiana Dykes, 27 year old Karen Vergada, and an unidentified Asian man who soon became known as Asian Doe. Police were stunned by what they had uncovered, and concerns began to mount. Not only had they failed to locate the missing woman they had been searching for, it seemed imminent that a serial killer was on the loose in Long Island. From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is up and Vanish weekly with Payne Lindsay and Maggie Freeling.

[Maggie Freeling]

When multiple sets of remains off of Ocean Parkway were found, the police weren't sure if they had a serial killer or multiple killers on their hands. There were four full bodies wrapped in burlap, neatly laid equal distance apart. Those were pretty obviously linked. Then there were the bodies that were dismembered and found scattered across Long Island. Some suspected that Ocean Parkway was a dumping ground for multiple killers, each with a different mo. Others said it was all the same killer. Their methods were just evolving. But to find out, the first priority of business was identifying everyone. Eventually, all victims had faces and names. Everyone except Asian Doe. When Asian Doe was found, they were described as 17 to 23 years old and between 5 foot 3 to 5 foot 9 with close cropped hair, who appeared to be of equality east Asian descent. And although a biological male, they were first known as Asian male Doe. They soon became known just as Asian Doe. The male part was dropped from the moniker because they were Found dressed in women's clothing. Police suspected because many of the other victims were identified as sex workers, that it's possible Asian Doe was also a sex worker who identified or dressed as as a woman. Asian Doe was found wearing a blue ribbed short sleeve shirt, woman's pants and a bra. Investigators believe Asian Doe died five to 10 years earlier from blunt force trauma. Investigators believe they met a very violent death, but other than that, not much else is known about Asian Doe. An initial sketch went out of Asian Doe's face, but there were very few leads. And with one or more killers on the loose, pressure was on. But the case would go cold for over a decade due to the stigma of sex work, police corruption and leadership turnover. Then shortly after, a new task force took over. On July 13, 2023, a 59 year old architect from Long island was arrested.

[Victor Velstra]

We have some breaking news at 6, a major break in the notorious Gilgo beach murders. Police arrest a suspect in connection to the serial killings and for decades he lived just across the bay from where the remains were found. Many are wondering if this suspect is tied to all 11 victims found on Gilgo Beach.

[Maggie Freeling]

Rex Heuerman was working in midtown Manhattan when he was taken into custody and charged with three of the murders. Heuerman would eventually be charged with seven murders and is currently awaiting trial. But despite authorities believing they have now found lisk, he has notably not been linked to Shannon Gilbert, the woman at the center of the initial search and recovery effort that kicked off the discovery of 10 people's remains. Though many people believe she's connected to the rest of the victims. But unlike many of the other victims, we do have details of Shannon's last known moments. Here's Rob with more details.

[Rob]

Around 5am On a spring morning in May 2010, an Oak beach resident was abruptly awoken by chaotic pounding on her door. Realizing the time, she wonders who would be knocking at this hour. As she cautiously approaches the door, she sees a young woman who is clearly frantic. Unsure what to make of the scene, the resident calls 91 1.

[911 Operator]

What is the location of your emergency? 4043 to Bayou. Some woman is knocking at my door. What town are you in? Oak Beach Association. What's the nearest corner street, ma'? Am? Ocean Parkway. She says she's in danger. You know her or no? No, I don't. I'm not letting her in. She's banging on your door there? Yes. Did you say what kind of danger? No. Oh, and we live in a gated community.

[Rob]

Authorities would soon learn that 24 year old Shannon Gilbert had been in the gated Oak beach community that night, working as an escort. Shannon had come in from Manhattan with her driver, a security type person who waited outside for Shannon as she worked. But that night, things didn't go according to plan. At 4:51am Shannon called 911. She can be heard arguing with her clients and driver as he tries to get her back to the car to return to Manhattan.

[911 Operator]

There's somebody asking me, where are you, ma'? Am? I'm inside a house. What house? I don't know. Okay, let's. No, stop. No. Come on. Let's go. Come on. No, please. Why? Let's go back to. Let's go back to Manhattan.

[Rob]

Instead. Shannon took off down the street, knocking on neighborhood doors, desperately looking for help. Eventually, Shannon ran off into the night and vanished. Police and K9 units spent the next several months searching desperately for Shannon. They canvassed the swampy Long island marshes while enduring the blazing summer heat. As time went on, the conditions were traded for the unbearable ice and snow of a northeastern winter. But as the search for Shannon continued and multiple bodies were recovered, authorities were left to piece together an increasingly fragmented puzzle. While many of their questions would eventually find resolution, some, including the identity of Asian Doe, was still remain unsolved.

[Maggie Freeling]

Shannon Gilbert was found on December 13, 2011, about a half a mile from where she was last seen. Shannon's purse and clothes were found near but not on her. Investigators ruled her death an accidental drowning, but the official cause is undetermined. They believe she was disoriented based on the 911 call, ran into the marsh and got stuck, causing her clothes to come off and drown. But others reject that theory, pointing to the 10 other people found dead in close proximity who were also selling sex with similar physical characteristics. Notably, they were all petite, including Asian dough. These people believe Shannon was also a victim of the Long island serial killer, and her family is still fighting today to get answers about her mysterious death. And like Shannon, there's been a lot of speculation about Asian Doe, who are they, and who killed them. If we knew who they were, we could backtrack like was done with many of the other victims with an identity. Maybe we could find out Asian Doe's last known location and who they were with, and maybe that would lead us to who killed them. But why has it been so difficult to figure out the identity of Asian Doe? There's actually an answer to this. So joining me is Victor Velstra, an expert in the field of forensic genetic genealogy for lgbtqi. Folks, I'LL bring you my discussion with Victor after this quick break. Y', all. Summer is about doing more of what you love and for me that's been getting outside final, tackling some home projects and just taking a break from the usual routine. But that also means I don't want to stress about what's for dinner, so I let hellofresh handle it. Hellofresh sends everything I need straight to my door, from far fresh produce to easy to follow recipes. My favorite part is everything is pre portioned so I never have wasted. I just made their Indian inspired chicken with turmeric rice and it was mwah. Chef's kiss. Make your summer enjoyable and delicious by signing up for [e-mail] VanishedWeekly10FM and get 10 free meals with a free item for life. That's HelloFresh.com VanishedWeekly 10 FM for 10 free meals and a free item in every box. HelloFresh.com VanishWeekly 10FM one per box with an active subscription. Free meals are applied as a discount on the first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. Hey y'. All, this summer I decided I was done with fast fashion clothing that only lasts one wash. I wanted quality pieces that I feel good in. That's when I found Quince and I'm seriously obsessed. Think soft organic cotton silk polos, breezy European linen beach shorts and pants that feel just right whether you're chilling at home or heading out for dinner. I picked up the 100% washable silk mini slip dress that feels like something I'd find in a luxury boutique, but at a fraction of the cost. Quince is able to keep prices low because they work directly with top factories. No middlemen, no crazy markups, and they only work with places that care about ethical and sustainable production so it's affordable, elevated and you can feel good wearing it. Go to quince.comvanishedweekly for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U-I-N-C-E.comvanishedweekly to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comvanished weekly.

[Payne Lindsay]

We'Re back.

[Maggie Freeling]

Victor, thanks so much for sitting down with me and talking with me about Asian DOE and the work that you do with unidentified victims. Can you introduce yourself?

[Victor Velstra]

My name is Victor Veltztra. I am a board member with the Transdo Task Force and the administrator of our LGBTQ focused Missing, Murdered, Unidentified and Unsolved Person's Database. I help identify unidentified queer people and Also help with missing persons cases.

[Payne Lindsay]

I have been in this field of missing murdered people since 2017. So I've heard your name for a bit. I'm really excited we're getting to talk. So I guess my first question is why do we need a transdo task force to help identify trans folks? Why is that a niche that we need?

[Victor Velstra]

The reason why we need groups like mine is because there is no safety net. There's big cracks and people fall through them all the time. It's not that different from the people who started the missing in murdered indigenous women or indigenous people now, or the black and missing group or any of the buzcadores down in Mexico that are also looking in the US for family members that have gone missing here they have these groups because when we work together as community, we can fill in the gaps that currently exist in the official systems. Queer people, a lot of the time they don't get reported missing. If somebody does try to get them reported missing, a lot of the times they can't because some police departments only will allow family members. And a lot of queer people are estranged from their families and that reduces the likelihood of them being found safe. But also if they're found deceased, it can mean that they stay unidentified for decades.

[Payne Lindsay]

So how did you get into this world, Victor?

[Victor Velstra]

My great uncle was a missing person for nine and a half years. I was already doing the genealogy for my family. So I spent the next nine and a half years looking through DOE databases and reports and everything else and I found everybody associated with him except him. I found a cousin I didn't know about. I found his ex wife, I found, you know, his other kids, but I didn't find him. And then one day we got a call from the medical examiner's office. He'd been on the shelf there for nine and a half years and we just hadn't gotten notified.

[Payne Lindsay]

So nine years, you're looking for your uncle and he's there the whole time.

[Victor Velstra]

What it boils down to is that a new medical examiner came in and took over the job and was going through the sets of remains that were left on the shelf and went back and I guess tried to recontact or actually contact all of the families. And that's when we got the call.

[Maggie Freeling]

Wow.

[Victor Velstra]

But yeah, after he was found, I was like, you know, I've been going through and I've been looking at this stuff so long now, it would be silly for me to just be like, okay, whatever. So I said, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna look for the cases that people aren't paying attention to because I feel like those actually need help. People that are really underrepresented and don't get a lot of attention.

[Payne Lindsay]

So you mentioning your uncle really makes me think about this case I was Talking about in 2017, Maura Murray that I worked. You know, my theory was always that she was potentially a DOE in Alabama and just no one in New Hampshire knows to look for her there. Because as I discovered doing this research 10 years ago, a lot of these systems don't talk to each other. So it's just very disjointed is what I found.

[Victor Velstra]

Yes. There's not really a standard. A lot of them don't talk to each other. A lot of them don't want to talk to each other. And then there's barriers in each one of those systems that causes issues too.

[Payne Lindsay]

So getting back to trans dos, there's a whole other layer of difficulty when we are trying to identify a person. Can you talk about some of those nuances when we're talking about a trans person or even a queer person?

[Victor Velstra]

If we're dealing with a gender nonconforming person or a trans person, Aside from the fact that many of them are not reported missing to begin with, you have problems within just the databases. They can show up in any way under any classification for both missing and unidentified people. I know that, that people think like, oh, but your skeleton will tell you, I'm going to tell you that's not true. There are features that are more likely to show up on female skeletons, and there are features that are more likely to show up on male skeletons. So there's a spectrum and a rating system that they use for different remains. Many, many people have ambiguous skeletons. The system wants you to put in either male or female, but if they don't know, there's a lot of resistance to that. And if you get misclassified, it can really cause a lot of issues with getting identified. We had Diamond Dupree. She's a black trans woman. She went missing. She was found less than three miles from where she went missing. She was found within a month of when she went missing, but her body was classified as female and she was put in the system as male. Because of that, it took three years for her to get identified.

[Maggie Freeling]

So I want to get your thoughts on Asian dose specifically. Many people have speculated that they were possibly from another country and were just visiting or traveling here or like they were on a student exchange visa. And that's why there's Been difficulty in identifying them. What's your take on this?

[Victor Velstra]

She could be from multiple different provinces in southern China. She could also be Taiwanese because there's a population of Han Chinese that live in Taiwan. You know, southern Han Chinese have, have gotten around. They, they migrated out in the 1980s. It was right after China opened their borders a bit more. So a lot of them went to a lot of different places. Another thing that we have to keep in mind is that this person may not be an official person in China. When the, the one child policy was in effect in China, if you had more than one child, you had to pay a fine. If you're very poor, you couldn't pay a fine. Children whose parents couldn't pay their fine, those children can't register, they can't register the births, they can't go to school, they can't get a passport. They are legally non existent. And there's millions of people in China like this. They could be a legally non existent person that, that came over here in a way that wasn't documented. So if you have someone like that, it's going to be very, very easy for them to disappear. Very, very hard for them to get any information towards them being missing. Especially in a different country. If they ran away, the family might not even know. But also in China, if you're trans and you want to transition, there's a lot of processes. Same in Taiwan. They have to go to a psychologist and get a bunch of notes and go through different kinds of therapy. And then if they still want to change their gender, up until recently they've had to have all their surgeries done and then also go to court and get permission from their family to do so. And a lot of the times that that particular thing there, getting your, your family's permission is not something that you get. So that means that you are going to struggle with finding people who have actually legally changed everything over. Even if everything was done above the board and legally and everything else for this person, you actually are going to have a massive struggle. And then there's also the way that Chinese family books and genealogy works. If you're, if you're doing the genealogy for her, because it goes along male lines there. If you're a woman who doesn't have any children, your name doesn't go in the book. Or if they don't think that you had children, your name doesn't go in the book. For multiple kinds of genealogy there's. So it can be, it can be very difficult.

[Maggie Freeling]

What other challenges could there be in identifying Asian Doe if they weren't from.

[Victor Velstra]

The US So if she had already transitioned before she came to the US Then on her official documents, it's not going to show that she was male. No one that's here would know that she was male unless she told them, you know, that, that she had transitioned. As soon as they had some idea that she could be trans, they really should have dropped the mail just because I don't think that it's helpful for people that would've actually known her well.

[Payne Lindsay]

From the beginning they knew she was found in feminine clothing. When did they start realizing, wait a second, this might not be accurate?

[Victor Velstra]

I think that they didn't want to say anything about her being trans because they thought that it would make people less likely to report, which is not wrong. Explain that if there are people in her life who knew her and didn't like that she was trans, they could know who she is and just decide that mentioning this is going to bring shame to them or is going to embarrass them, their family group, their friend group, their social group and so they.

[Payne Lindsay]

Won'T report report that she's missing.

[Victor Velstra]

Yes, it is. Across the board we see that. We've seen a couple of trans does get identified where the family, even if they're murdered, the family asks the police to not publicly identify them.

[Maggie Freeling]

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And now here's Haley, host of Inhuman, a True Crime podcast with this week's critical missing case.

[Haley]

Today's case is from Alaska. According to Namus, around 4pm on Wednesday, June 11, 62 year old David Roger Meyer went out fishing in the Cook Inlet near Happy Valley in Ninilchik, Alaska. David was kayaking in a blue motorized kayak that was, according to the coast guard, found around 11pm that night overturned and there was no sign of David with the kayak. David's daughter Chantrell Meyer reported that the kayak was found near Whiskey Gulch, further south from where David was last seen. A 19 hour search by the Coast Guard was completed covering a 361 square nautical mile area and on the afternoon of June 12, gray waiters matching the description that David was last seen wearing were found within the search area but there was no other sign of David and the official Coast Guard search was suspended later that afternoon. According to Chantrell Meyer, David is an avid hunter and fisherman who moved to Alaska in the 1997. Chantrell and her family are asking for the public's help in searching for David. David Meyer is described as being 6 foot 1 with a weight of 210 pounds. He has strawberry blonde hair and blue eyes and he was last seen wearing a gray dry suit and a maroon and gray or black life vest. If you have any information about David or his whereabouts, you can contact the 24 hour Alaska the Coast Guard hotline or call 907-428-4100 listeners.

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You can check out the up and Vanish weekly Instagram page avweekly for more information about this case and to share our post. For more visibility. For more true crime content, be sure to check out Inhuman, a true crime podcast wherever you get your podcasts. And follow Hailey on Instagram and TikTok Obandhaly okay, now back to the show.

[Payne Lindsay]

All right, we're back. Of the bodies that were found in gilgo beach around 2011, Asian Joe was the only one who is currently not identified. People on the Internet found a person named Mo Zhang, a Chinese foreign exchange student that came to Yorktown, Virginia and then Zhang disappeared from a church in 2006. He was rumored to be out of state, which cue the Internet sleuths then decide okay, maybe Asian dough is mosang. A lot of issues come up with this international exchange Issues.

[Maggie Freeling]

Can you go over some of these.

[Payne Lindsay]

Issues that we now run into with, let's say this is moseng, how do we identify them?

[Victor Velstra]

You have to contact the Chinese consulate and you have to get their cooperation. And you have to hope that they have an immediate family member who is still alive, who can provide a DNA sample and who will do so willingly. When our Asian Doe was originally found, people were looking at recently missing Asian people from the area. But when you're coming in later into the US you wind up doing biometrics and everything else. When you go through customs or to get your visa or anything else, there's an entire process for that. But also if the consulate is not going to cooperate for whatever reason, or if they can't find a family member who's an immediate family member, it could be a real struggle.

[Payne Lindsay]

When Asian do's photo was put out, the reconstruction was put out, they were a male, they were an Asian male in the photo. And then actually very Recently, a new 3D rendering was put out of what they would look like with hair and maybe more feminized as hoping someone maybe recognizes them like that.

[Maggie Freeling]

Did you guys help make that sketch?

[Victor Velstra]

It may or may not have been a response to us feminizing it ourselves and then putting out posters in multiple Asian languages. Because if this person had family who is in an Asian community, who knows if the people that know him speak English, right It. And that's the same, by the way, for any missing person who is within the Asian community. I would put out a flyer that's in multiple languages because some people don't, even if they speak English, they don't necessarily read it. So people within that community might not even be aware that this Doe exists or that this missing person exists because they, they can't read the signs or the posts about it.

[Payne Lindsay]

So hypothetically, someone in New York could have seen the old sketch in English and it could have been their son and just whoop.

[Victor Velstra]

Yeah. And the thing is that they, they may not have even recognized it because also I think without the demographic information of her being South Han Chinese, I don't think that the way that the face was put together was right. A lot of people have problems with being able to like see the differences between where someone is from. But a lot of Asian people are very clear about certain features. If you're just going, oh, generic Asian, it doesn't take into account a lot of the differences that we, we do see that people from those areas would typically expect. For one, it didn't do anything about the eyes. They should have done different presentations of the eyes. Just because you don't know. By the time that she was found, it was already very common in a lot of Asian countries to have eye surgery when you were younger. On a skeleton, you can't tell that. But that's why you should, you should mix that up so that people can see it because that does make a difference on whether or not you recognize the person.

[Maggie Freeling]

Absolutely.

[Victor Velstra]

When people originally started looking for her identity, they had this idea that she, she had gone missing or passed within the previous five years. And since then they've, they've released pictures of their clothes. I'm gonna tell you, I don't think that it was five years. I think that she probably went missing in the early 90s, maybe mid-90s. If you look at those clothes.

[Maggie Freeling]

Yeah, I'm looking at the tags.

[Victor Velstra]

They think she's a teenager to a young adult. So she's gonna want to be wearing fashionable things. She's not gonna be wearing something that somebody would have worn 20 years ago or 15 years ago. She's going to want to look put together. Right. Those clothes. I'm sorry, that is not what people were wearing in 2000. It's not what people were wearing in 2005. You got to go back. We went and we looked up the styles that they or as close as we could find to the styles and underwear that they had. You know, how people dressed in the queer community or just in general, that would lead me to believe that we're looking, you know, early 90s, mid-90s back.

[Maggie Freeling]

After a short break.

[Haley]

Out here, it's not only the amazing.

[Payne Lindsay]

Views, but the way time stretches out.

[Maggie Freeling]

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[Maggie Freeling]

Victor, how can we bring more awareness to this case? What is it going to take to finally confirm Asian Doe's identification?

[Victor Velstra]

If you're an old queer person in New York City or who used to be in New York City and you knew trans people or drag queens in New York City, you may want to take a look at your old pictures. There's a couple of clubs up there that are particularly interesting to me and one of them is Lucky Chang's. They were in the East Village. They specifically had Asian trans women and Asian drag queens. If I sent you a picture of this place, you would look at this and you'd be like, okay, they really need to check this place out.

[Payne Lindsay]

I just googled it. I'm from New York City and I didn't even. I didn't know about this. So I just googled.

[Victor Velstra]

They opened in 93. Even if she didn't go there, the chances actually of her knowing the people who were around then is higher, unfortunately, because the time period, a lot of the people that could have spoken about them died. The community was completely decimated by the AIDS crisis. A lot of the people that could have maybe known her at the time, once you went missing, non zero chance that they've passed away, but other people might know or you might have pictures.

[Payne Lindsay]

You would think of a place like Lucky Chang's. You would know that there were places like that. You would think to look at the clothing and say, you know, I'm in this community. We wouldn't be wearing this then. To me, that is so crucial and things that maybe I wouldn't think of or a cishet white police officer would think of.

[Victor Velstra]

Yeah, I. I mean that's. It's not something that they probably have ever had to think of in their life, honestly. And you can't know what you don't know. That's not necessarily a claim against them. It's just they don't know what they don't know. I do know that the FBI agents that are trying to work on this actually are, are pretty good.

[Payne Lindsay]

And I do know that there is a lot of care and renewed attention to this case, especially with the arrest of Heuerman. I know they are working diligently to try and find all of the dose. Victor, thank you so much for joining me. I seriously could talk to you forever. If the people want to find you, how can they find you?

[Victor Velstra]

I am Kaylara Owl on Twitter and also on Facebook and on various other social media. If you know a trans person who is missing, please reach out to me because I am constantly working on cases. I will look until I find them. That's it. And it does not matter how many years. It does not matter literally how long I have to look for them. I will look for them until they're found. I appreciate you giving me this platform and the ability to talk about these things.

[Maggie Freeling]

In November of last year, Suffolk County District Attorney Ray Tierney held a press conference to reinvigorate the efforts to ideation Doe.

[Victor Velstra]

This is a call to action. We want to enlist the public's help.

[Ray Tierney]

In trying to identify Asian Doe.

[Maggie Freeling]

At the conference, Tierney revealed a new rendering of Asian Doe. A forensic artist examined Asian Doe's skull to create images of what they may have looked like with both short and long hair. In my opinion, the image is significantly different from the original sketch which looked very masculine. If Asian Doe was presenting more feminine or had changed their face in any way, these new sketches would be much more helpful. During the press conference, Tierney also released photos for the first time of what Asian Doe was wearing.

[Ray Tierney]

He was wearing a chrysanthemum brand blue ribbed short sleeve shirt with a crew neck size large. He was wearing a raffle brand shirt.

[Victor Velstra]

Size 10 and he was wearing a pair of women's pants and a bra both by the brand Bill Blass.

[Maggie Freeling]

The new task force flyer depicting the recent facial reconstruction and photos of the clothing will also be released in various Asian languages. Tierney invited Asian media to the conference specifically to make sure they would distribute the the flyer widely. After using genetic genealogy, the LISK task force determined that Asian Doe is likely Southern Chinese, specifically Han Chinese descent. And as Victor mentioned, this makes identifying Asian do even harder considering South Asia is underrepresented in United States genetic genealogy databases. So Tierney pled with the New York Asian community, the New York Asian media community to think of anyone they knew back in the day who may have disappeared again.

[Victor Velstra]

This person had a name, this person had family, this person had friends. We're reaching out to anyone who might have known this individual to help us with that identification.

[Maggie Freeling]

At the time of their death, Asian Doe is believed to be 17 to 23 years old and stood approximately 5 foot 3 to 5ft 9 inches tall. Although they were found in 2011, Asian Doe is believed to have been killed at least five years prior 2006 or earlier from blunt force trauma to the head. There is a $2,500 reward being offered for any information leading to the identification of Asian Doe. Y', all, thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of up and Vanish Weekly. Be sure to tune in next week as we dig into another new case. Until next time.

[Ray Tierney]

Up in Vanish Weekly is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your hosts are Maggie Freeling and myself, Payne Lindsay. The show is written by Maggie Freeling, myself and John Street. Executive producers are Donald Albright and myself. Lead producer is John Street. Additional production by Meredith Stedman and Mike Rooney Research for the series by Jamie Albright, Celsius Stanton and Carolyn Tallmadge Edit and mix by Dylan Harrington and Sean Nurney Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Artwork by Byron McCoy. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Special thanks to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at uta, Beck Media and Marketing and the Nord Group. For more podcasts like up and Vanish Weekly, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast podcast app or visit us@Tenderfoot TV. Thanks for listening.

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