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- [00:00]
Maggie Freeling
Foreign you're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast. Have you ever dreamed of stepping into a mystery novel and solving a case yourself? Let me introduce you to June's Journey, an enchanting hidden object game that lets you do just that. Right now, I'm deep into chapter 12 unraveling clues to uncover the truth behind June's sister's mysterious death. And let me tell you, the story is packed with TW and turns that keep me coming back for more. And my favorite part? The stunning hidden object scenes that transport me to the roaring 1920s. Imagine searching for clues on a Parisian sidewalk or in an opulent New York parlor. It's like stepping back in time. I love playing when I need a break during my day. It's relaxing yet exciting and lets me flex my observation skills while enjoying a gripping tale of family secrets, mystery and romance. Plus, designing my island estate is a fun, creative escape. Whether you're solving puzzles, competing with other sleuths in the detective league, or just enjoying the immersive story, June's Journey offers something for everyone. So how sharp are your observation skills? Put them to the test in June's Journey. Download for free today on iOS and Android.
- [01:28]
Payne Lindsay
Here are three things that you need to know about Tenderfoot TV's brand new true crime podcast, Crook County. 1. It's about double life of a Mafia hitman named Kenny the kid tequila. 2. For over 20 years Kenny kept this secret from his family and it eventually tore them apart. And three this is a true story. And I know that it's true because I was there because Kenny is my father. My name is Kyle Tequila. Welcome to Crook County. Available now. Search Crook county in your favorite podcast app to follow the show.
- [02:05]
John Street
Up and Vanish Weekly is released every Wednesday and brought to you absolutely free, but for one week early access and ad free listening. Subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus@Tenderfoot Plus.com or on Apple Podcasts if you're already a subscriber. Thank you for your support.
- [02:24]
Maggie Freeling
This podcast discusses mature and sensitive content, including descriptions of violence that may be triggering for some audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
- [02:38]
Payne Lindsay
It's Friday, May 20, 2005, in southwest Louisiana. The air is heavy with the humid summer heat and the muddy waters of the Grand Marais Canal are moving sluggishly. Jerry Jackson, a retiree, is out for a peaceful morning of fishing. He leans over the rail of the bridge, scanning the water for the perfect spot to drop his line. As he casts, his eye quickly catches something strange beneath the water. At first he thinks it's a mannequin Perhaps someone pulling a prank. Then he notices the flies. Mannequins don't attract flies, he thinks to himself. Jerry immediately calls 911 and deputies promptly arrive and begin pulling the body of a young woman onto the bank. He sees her lifeless body dressed in jeans and a white blouse. The woman would later be identified as 28 year old Loretta Chassal Lewis. As haunting as this discovery was, locals would soon be faced with an unsettling reality. This was not an isolated event. Over the next several years, a total of eight bodies would be found dotting the swampy marshes of Jennings, Louisiana. A hard question would need to be asked. Were these women's deaths merely coincidental? Or did they share a deeper connection that had yet to be discovered? From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is up and Vanish Weekly with Payne Lindsay and Maggie Freeling.
- [04:49]
Maggie Freeling
Hey, y'all. Welcome back to up and Vanish Weekly. I'm Maggie Freeling. When I think about the Jennings eight, I feel helpless and the situation feels hopeless. Eight young women, some teenagers, with their lives ahead of them, doing the best they could in a desperate situation. They were born into poverty in a dead end town with limited to no opportunity. They were trying to support themselves and their families in the only way they knew how to get work in Jennings, Louisiana, hustling, some selling drugs, some selling sex. And that's what makes me so sad. If they had opportunity and resources and grew up in a town where they had access to flourishing language and arts programs, where state and local money is put into educational and sports, sports programming perhaps, and I believe their lives would have turned out different. And that is of course not to say that there aren't people who choose to do sex, work and sell drugs because they want to. But for the Jennings eight, I don't believe this is what they wanted. They were desperate to survive, which, in a tragic twist, may have cost them their lives. So joining me to talk about all this is Matt Frederick, one of the hosts of the wildly popular podcast stuff they don't want you to know. Matt, I'm a huge fan. I just like putting a face to the voice. So I am super excited you are here with me in studio.
- [06:29]
Matt Frederick
That doesn't make any sense to me, but thank you. I'm just. I'm super excited to be here with you. Actually, I'm excited about this show. I don't. Look, I'm inside the show right now and I don't even know what it is.
- [06:39]
Maggie Freeling
You made a show off of being a nerd. What is that like to like, do Your passion and get paid for it.
- [06:47]
Matt Frederick
Ooh, that's a good question. It's. It's very strange because it does feel like I've just started looking into the mysterious stuff with my friend Ben, and then my friend Noel came along, and we just kept looking into weird stuff, and we haven't stopped. So the only thing that's changed is, you know, I can afford rent now.
- [07:05]
Maggie Freeling
And what was the first strange thing you guys looked into?
- [07:09]
Matt Frederick
Fluoridation of water. Okay, that is the first thing that ever that I got footage for. Ben and I were starting to research, and I went down a rabbit hole with that thing.
- [07:20]
Maggie Freeling
Where did you come out with the fluoride?
- [07:22]
Matt Frederick
Well, for a minute, like, I fully believed that water should not be fluoridated because it doesn't help you when you just swallow it. It helps when you apply it to teeth directly, which is why toothpaste works. And I was like, why are we doing this to ourselves, guys? It doesn't make any sense.
- [07:41]
Maggie Freeling
Do you often find that people just brush you and your co hosts off as, like, kooks?
- [07:46]
Matt Frederick
Oh, sure.
- [07:47]
Maggie Freeling
Do you think you're a kook?
- [07:49]
Matt Frederick
I hope we're not kooks. That's the whole point of our show, is to think critically about all of it. Right? So even if it is a little fringe or weird, at least consider it. Because I think the moment that you don't consider something or you're not allowed to consider something that's actually dangerous. Thinking about something and, you know, nerding out about potential, you know, past or future things, that's just creative, I think.
- [08:14]
Maggie Freeling
So the Jennings 8 case. I have you here today to specifically talk about that. You covered it on stuff they don't want you to know. Listen to it. Great episode. I think you guys did a wonderful breakdown of a really complicated case. So what made you guys want to cover this case?
- [08:30]
Matt Frederick
Well, originally, the reason why we found out about it is because we were huge fans of the True Detective series. And the first. I think the first season we had read that it was influenced by a couple of different actual true crime stories, and this was one of them. And once we started diving into it, you just see this story that appears to, at least on the surface, after you go as deep as you can as just a layperson reading what's online, it appears to be a story about corruption and some, you know, human trafficking and drugs and drug trafficking. But then if you look too hard at it, again, to me, I liken it to the True Detective Show. If you look at it too hard. Maybe there's something deeper going on there that, you know, I'm even worried to say some of that stuff. But like local, some of the local law enforcement involvement does appear to be there, right?
- [09:29]
Maggie Freeling
Law enforcement and the possibility that they may somehow be wrapped up in all of this is a major topic in this case. But the town of Jennings itself is also a focal point. It almost takes the role of a character in and of itself because it sets the tone for the events that took place around these eight murders. Here's Rob with more.
- [09:57]
Payne Lindsay
Jennings, Louisiana, is a small town in the county of Jefferson Davis Parish. It's home to the slow, brackish bayous and swamplands many associate with the Pelican State. In many ways, Jennings looks like any other rural southern town. Driving through, you'll find several car dealerships, a handful of cafes and a courthouse. But south Jennings is a different story. The abandoned houses and boarded up windows reveal the struggles of those who live there. It's evident that poverty, addiction and a lack of opportunity have taken their toll on this otherwise tranquil town. And the placement of Interstate 10, which cuts through the parish, has put Jennings on the map as an easily accessible hub for drugs and human trafficking. In Jennings, everyone knows everyone and word travels fast. But sometimes the darkness of a small town makes it harder for the truth to come to light. Over time, these realities have laid the groundwork for corruption to take root. And from out of this chaos, key figures have emerged which seem to highlight Jennings dark underbelly and a possible link between criminal activity and those entrusted to prevent it.
- [11:24]
Maggie Freeling
Our discussion continues after a quick break. Where'd you get those shoes? Easy. They're from dsw because DSW has the exact right shoes for whatever you're into right now. You know, like the sneakers that make office hours feel like happy the hour, the boots that turn grocery aisles into runways, and all the styles that show off the many sides of you, from daydreamer to multitasker and everything in between. Because you do it all in really great shoes. Find a shoe for every you at your dsw store or dsw.com all right, now back to our case.
- [12:08]
Rob
The i10 section where Jennings is located.
- [12:11]
Maggie Freeling
Has almost got cartel level of drugs running through it. That creates drug problems, it creates corruption. And it's sort of like Jennings is.
- [12:23]
Payne Lindsay
A port city, but the port is not water. It's icann.
- [12:34]
Maggie Freeling
Jennings is a small town. It's about 9,000 people.
- [12:37]
Matt Frederick
Yeah, that's small.
- [12:39]
Maggie Freeling
So let's talk about that. Small town, small town, mentality I mean, Jennings, from what I understand, a lot of hardship, crime, drugs. You've looked into a lot of cases like this also. What are some of the things that stick out to you about Jennings specifically?
- [12:57]
Matt Frederick
One thing you need to be aware of is to think about the geography of Jennings. You think about the town area and then imagine that all from the northeast side going down that east side and then continuing south past the town. That's basically swamp.
- [13:18]
Maggie Freeling
Okay.
- [13:19]
Matt Frederick
Like a ton of swamp land. So any human being that ends up out there, especially after they're deceased, there's a level of decay that sets in. There's a level of breaking down of any kind of evidence that may have existed there. Anyone who knows and is doing something wrong and they want to get rid of a body, they're heading towards that swampland. And that's exactly where most of the victims were discovered.
- [13:44]
Maggie Freeling
Solving crimes in a small town, I think one might think is really easy because be not a lot of suspects. Everyone knows each other. You can gossip, you can learn things. But it actually is challenging as well because of those connections.
- [13:56]
Matt Frederick
Oh, for sure. Nobody wants to rat out anybody else, usually, no matter what. And it depends on how solid those connections are between people. And, you know, if you know everybody and somebody gets killed, not only do you know who got killed, you know who killed that person, and what is your loyalty like to that person, and are you afraid of that person or, you know, it makes everything, I would say infinitely more complicated.
- [14:23]
Maggie Freeling
And we did find that in this case, the. The women, the victims, they actually, most of them knew each other. Two of them were cousins.
- [14:31]
Matt Frederick
Yep. And there was one man that connected a lot of them who appears to have been a sex trafficker. I don't. I don't even know the correct nomenclature that you use anymore for somebody like this. That is the enforcer, the guy who's taking the money. He's the pimp.
- [14:48]
Maggie Freeling
You guys called him the pimp? Yeah. I mean, he's a pimp. Frankie Richard, that's what he was.
- [14:53]
Matt Frederick
And at least that's the way he even described himself.
- [14:56]
Maggie Freeling
He knew all of these women except for one of them. And his connection was this kind of high risk lifestyle. He said he had done drugs with, if not all of the women.
- [15:08]
Matt Frederick
Yeah.
- [15:08]
Maggie Freeling
What did you find interesting about Frankie Richard? He's kind of been the person of interest.
- [15:15]
Matt Frederick
I think the. The thing about Frankie, for me at least, is he fits the description, at least on paper. And with the words he uses in the quotes where he's quoted as a villain, he's like, this is a bad guy. That's what my brain tells me. And I disagree with how he lives his life and what he does. And it, you know, it makes me angry. But I worry that somebody like that is somebody who would be painted as the villain immediately. Kind of like the way Arthur Leigh Allen was in a lot of ways in the Zodiac case. So that's what worries me when I think about him, because I'm. I'm worried that I'm going to get influenced to think one way or another. Right. That's where my head ends up going. What is his connection? Is it all sex trade? Is it all drug trade? Who are the other people that are involved in those transactions?
- [16:07]
Maggie Freeling
I mean, he's at the center of this. He knew all of them, and he admits that, but I guess, kind of devil's advocate. I mean, he's like, these are my friends. I didn't do anything to them. They. I spent time with them.
- [16:19]
Matt Frederick
Very true. But he also has a monetary connection to them. The. Each individual person makes him money, so why would he. Yeah, why would he take them out like that? Sorry. Just to add to extra, like, weirdness.
- [16:34]
Maggie Freeling
Right. Frankie's name surfaces in connection to the deaths of these eight women for different reasons, which we'll get to shortly. But again, the question I haven't been able to answer is why is it a matter of wrong place, wrong time? Is it just because he's involved in, quote, taboo business practices, so it's easy to look at him as a person of interest? Or is it possible that there's some kind of connection to some of the other questionable things that were going on in Jennings at the time? Because there are a lot of red flags. Here's Rob with the details.
- [17:19]
Payne Lindsay
Inside Jennings, the idyllic picture of a small town becomes distorted by harsh realities. Law and order seem to be in short order, and suspicions of misconduct amongst law enforcement paint a grim picture. Over the years, there have been reports of drugs and cash disappearing from police evidence lockers. Physical evidence for serious crimes has also mysteriously gone missing amidst concerns of rampant crime. Many have questioned what role Frankie Richard may have in all of this. Ryshar is well known in Jennings as a strip club owner and local hustler, a name closely linked to the criminal underworld. Over time, Richard's name has surfaced again and again in connection to a variety of crimes. And his personal ties to seven of the eight women found in Jennings has drawn a lot of attention. Some of these women were his friends or acquaintances. Others were employed by him. But it's the circumstances around two particular deaths that many have spotlighted. When 21 year old Kristin Lopez was found beaten and drowned, it was said that she frequented Richard's house routinely. And when 26 year old Whitney Dubois body was discovered, witnesses say she may have even been with Richard at the time of her death. Richar has maintained his innocence in connection to the deaths of these women. But it's not merely his proximity to the victims that warranted a deeper look. His links to law enforcement have prompted onlookers to wonder if Richard is truly innocent or if it somehow demonstrates a deeper level of criminality at work.
- [19:14]
Maggie Freeling
This case actually first piqued my interest when I started feeling less bad for Frankie Richard because there started to be some of these connections made between Richard and some law enforcement. And then this will get a little controversial because it involves police doing not so great things. But when you do look at this and you look close, like you were saying, you start to see some things. And so there was a burglary from the police station and evidence was stolen. 300 pounds of marijuana was stolen from the evidence room. And when the burglars were asked about this, they named Frankie Richard and a high ranking member of the sheriff's office, a man named Warren Gary. He's also referred to as Ted Gary. And so that sticks out to me that Frankie Richard in certain capacities is doing illegal activities with someone in the sheriff's office.
- [20:16]
Matt Frederick
Yeah, it's just a local strip club owner and the deputy chief sheriff. It's fine. They're just hanging out, stealing weed from the sheriff's department.
- [20:24]
Maggie Freeling
I mean, what does that say, like your conspiracy mind, where does it go?
- [20:28]
Matt Frederick
It goes, these guys are buddies somehow. They've gotten close over the years, probably, I'm assuming at the strip club and through interactions with, with Frankie, you know, through whatever he's getting in trouble for and getting, you know, out of trouble for. This is all speculation, but I'm just, I think you make a connection. Who do, who do police officers know? Police officers, their family, and people that they interact with a lot. Like people they pick up for crimes. That is just, that is something I've heard from police officers. You just end up knowing people because you see them, you're like, oh, what are you doing?
- [21:08]
Maggie Freeling
It's interesting because I was watching the documentary about this murder in the bayou I was watching. They initially were talking about him and I was sympathetic towards him. I was like, this is a guy who, you know, yes, he was doing all of these things that you and I Might not have done, but we also don't live in Jennings, Louisiana, so I can't judge him. And then you start finding out about some of these connections with law enforcement. He had. You find out that he was actually arrested for one of these women's murders. So in your conspiracy theory mind, when Frankie Richard is picked up for a murder, charged, but then the charges are dropped because there was tampering with evidence, where do you go from there?
- [21:55]
Matt Frederick
You automatically go to somebody, quote, mishandled that evidence on purpose so he doesn't get in trouble. And also, is Frankie a CI? A lot of these victims were confidential informants.
- [22:07]
Maggie Freeling
Maybe Frankie is so me who works in wrongful convictions. This is when I started being like, I'm in. I'm sucked into this case. We are not talking, like, straight serial killer. We are talking somebody that may be connected to the police department. Someone may be in the police department. That is where I go. And then looking at small towns before, like, I did that murder and alliance case, there was so much corruption in that police department that you're like, okay, if you could steal weed. And then there's these allegations from female prisoners or women in holding that were being sexually assaulted by the officers there. It's just all of these things on top of each other that my brain is like, there is something really wrong with this police department.
- [22:58]
Matt Frederick
Yeah, it sure seems that way. Dateline had an episode in 97 all about this place. Wow. About Jeff Davis Parish and sheriff's offices and just things that were going on. And it was. Yeah, it was Jeff Davis Parish and another Parish where it was a whole Dateline episode. And it was about corruption, about deputies doing all kinds of stuff.
- [23:20]
Maggie Freeling
So that's where I really get, like, my conspiracy brain. And I don't even want to call it a conspiracy because we know these things happen. Like, we are literally watching this right now with the Karen Reid case in Boston. Ooh, are you watching that?
- [23:34]
Matt Frederick
Yeah, I've been. I try not to obsess over it too much, but I definitely just look at it out of the side of my eye and go, what?
- [23:41]
Maggie Freeling
Small town police force, corrupt. There's no getting around it. And so this Karen Reed case is showing, like, all of these little connections between these officers. And this guy was the first responding officer, and this guy, he was his brother of the first responding officer. And maybe that's how this taillight piece got there. And when you start making all these connections, you're like, oh, my gosh, this woman was framed. And she was. It was a hung Jury. I mean, she was acquitted on two charges. And so I start looking at this, and I'm like, something is happening with these corrupt cops. And then when you have a case like this, they form a task force to investigate. As you know, task forces are made up of different law enforcement from different jurisdictions, different levels. So everyone works together. This case has a task force of cops who have been accused of being corrupt and potentially even involved with, you know, some things going on here. How are you supposed to investigate a case objectively?
- [24:40]
Matt Frederick
Yeah, I don't know.
- [24:41]
Maggie Freeling
You're on a task force and you're accused of corruption yourself.
- [24:46]
Matt Frederick
I don't know how that's supposed to work. I don't think that it does. It also doesn't help when there are a lot of people going around asking questions about a homicide that may not even be connected to anybody. But some of the people they're interviewing about those homicides happen to be some of the local sex workers who happen to all know each other. And then when each of them starts dying, the, you know, task force and other officers are asking some of those same women who know each other about that homicide and this next homicide and that one previously. And then more people in that group start dying off. And it just creates this picture of somebody doesn't want either the task force or some. Some part of that local police department or sheriff's department to know something, and they're just systematically going through and killing people who could have information.
- [25:42]
Maggie Freeling
And here's my thing. Who would know what information they have if they talk to the police other than the police?
- [25:49]
Matt Frederick
It's scary. It does make you feel like somebody in the organization is at least paying attention and feeding information. Like, at the least, somebody is feeding information to someone who is killing women. Answers are here in this town. Somebody has those answers.
- [26:09]
Payne Lindsay
Somebody knows who is responsible for each.
- [26:12]
Matt Frederick
And every one of these murders. I think we have more than one killer here, and I think they all read in the same circle. I think somebody knows something, but they're scared to talk.
- [26:26]
Maggie Freeling
More of our discussion after a quick break. You're listening to up and Vanish weekly. Start fresh in the new year. As you set resolutions for 2024. Consider how learning a new language can enrich your life, whether through travel, career advancement, or cultural appreciation. Keeping in mind everything you've learned over the last year, it's time to build on that. And learning a new language can help you connect with others and explore new cultures. With that in mind, there's no better tool than Rosetta Stone. The most trusted language learning program available on desktop and mobile. Rosetta Stone immerses you in the language so you truly learn to think, speak and understand it naturally. With Rosetta Stone's intuitive approach. There are no English translations, you're fully immersed and the built in truaccent feature acts like a personal accent coach, giving you real time feedback to make sure you sound just right. Don't put off learning that language. There's no better time than right now to get started. Start the new year off with a resolution you can reach today. Listeners can take advantage of this Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership. For 50% off, visit RosettaStone.com RS10. That's 50% off. Unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your Life. Redeem your 50% off@RosettaStone.com Rs10 today.
- [27:45]
Payne Lindsay
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- [28:44]
Maggie Freeling
18/ DNC supply Hey listeners. As always, we want to hear from you. Email our team at casesenderfoot tv DM us on Instagram avweekly or call us at 770-545-6411. Now here's this week's critical missing case.
- [29:06]
John Street
Hey Maggie. So here's a case that was brought to us by one of our listeners. It's been circulating on social media and it was even picked up by Dateline. 88 year old Myrtle Polk has been a pillar in the Dallas, Texas community for decades. She spent her career as a teacher and was also a dedicated member of the Singing Hills Baptist church. On Saturday, June 8, 2024, Myrtle vanished from her home on the 1100 block of Indian Creek Trail in Dallas. Now, according to reports, she was last seen by neighbors around midday on Saturday the 8th, and later that evening, she spoke to a friend on the phone. Around 9pm the next day, Sunday, June 9, she didn't show up for church and nobody was able to reach her. On Monday, June 10, authorities and the community started canvassing the area, but to date they haven't uncovered any leads. Now, Myrtle has early stage dementia and she doesn't carry a cell phone or credit cards. And her car, a black 2004 Lexus ES330 with Texas tag Bravo Victor 7Kilo 204, is also missing. Myrtle is of African American ethnicity with a height between 5 foot 2 inches and 5 foot 3 inches and a weight between 120 and 130 pounds. She has short silver white hair and brown eyes and she also has a mole on the side of her nose. So listeners, if you have any information about merchandise Myrtle's whereabouts, please contact the Dallas Police Department at 214-671-4268. And if you follow us on Instagram, please share our post and help spread the word.
- [30:50]
Maggie Freeling
All right, now back to our case.
- [30:59]
Payne Lindsay
The women now known as the Jeff Davis Eight weren't strangers to one another. Some were related, others were friends, and many shared similar life circumstances. Struggling with addiction, living in poverty and surviving on the margins of society. Each of the eight victims, Loretta Chassal Lewis, Ernestine Marie Daniels Patterson, Kristen Gary Lopez, Whitney Dubois, Lakonia Brown, Crystal Shay Benoit Zeno, Brittany Gary Ann. Nicole Guillory had a full life ahead of them, which was regrettably cut short. But perhaps most unsettling is the fact that each woman also held ties to local law enforcement, operating as a police informant in Jennings. Informants work with little protection, often risking their personal safety in exchange for favors or leniency. It's a role that leaves you dangerously exposed. As the body count began to rise, a troubling inevitability was emerging. Women who provided information to the police were turning up dead. It was a formula that some of the women were also catching on to the last of the victims. Nicole Guillory knew many of the other victims through her involvement in South Jennings sex trade. She confided in her family that she believed police were responsible for the killings and she feared she might be next. Her paranoia deepened in the months before her death until, tragically, Nicole met the same fate. In the aftermath, the Pattern has raised one glaring question. Were these women targeted because of their vulnerability or was there something more calculated at play?
- [33:13]
Maggie Freeling
All of these women were, you know, what we would consider marginalized. They were low income, they were users. Some, some if not all were sex workers, police informants. Do you think these factors played any role in, in their murders or it not being solved?
- [33:36]
Matt Frederick
Yeah, I mean, just because of who they are and where they are in life and what they're going through, there may be some kind of biases just against them with the local law enforcement. Right. I mean this, it's. You can't, you can't throw that out. You have to, you have to at least imagine that that is part of the reality here.
- [33:54]
Maggie Freeling
That oftentimes in cases like this, these are factors that would, you know, you see a serial killer and they say, oh, this person probably doesn't have a family that's gonna look for them. They're a sex worker, they're lower. So, you know, they're disposable. I personally don't know if that played a part here in that way. Like they're disposable women. I think they knew something in this case. I think there are similarities that made them all friends and be in the situation that they're in. But I don't think the fact that they were marginalized is the reason they were killed.
- [34:30]
Matt Frederick
That's a really good point. If you, if you look at most serial killers, there is a. They're not all, but most serial killers there's a type of person, right? Someone who resembles an individual from that killer's past. When, when that killer sees this new victim or this person that he or she is going to hunt, there is either a visual, auditory, there's some kind of connection. Right. When I'm looking at the victims faces, there are pictures of them you can see online. And it, it is not as though you are fitting a description for some killer's proclivities.
- [35:08]
Maggie Freeling
They do share a number of commonalities. But the question is, are they coincidences or is it some kind of pattern? Right. The problem is that even now, years later, we still don't have answers. And that's where the tension has been with their loved ones and with those living in Jennings. Police have not provided any real answers. And so everyone has asked the resounding question, why not? Here's Rob with more details about law enforcement's efforts to find answers.
- [35:44]
Payne Lindsay
With the discovery of each body, authorities faced increasing pressure to investigate. Eventually, a joint task force was formed. But many in Jennings Raised concerns. They wondered how the same authorities suspected of participating in the crimes being looked into could take on a central role in the investigation. Accusations about the corruption in Jennings had been well documented, including accounts which implicated law enforcement in the killings of several victims. Witnesses claimed that some officers were not only complicit, but actively involved in covering up the murders. One former deputy leaked recordings from inmates which claimed that higher ranking officers were part of the conspiracy. The recordings were handed to federal investigators only to end up back in the hands of the local authorities accused of the crimes and then quickly concealed. It wasn't until journalist and private investigator Ethan Brown began an independent investigation that details came to light. In his probe, Brown combed through years of records and interviews, uncovering the connections between the victims, law enforcement, and Jennings drug trade. Brown revealed the town's seedy underbelly. Jennings had become a place where the lines between criminals and. And those meant to enforce the law had all but disappeared. And what Brown found left little room for doubt. The murders of the Jennings eight weren't just a series of random tragedies. They were likely tied to a system rotting from within.
- [37:36]
Maggie Freeling
So I want to ask you, like, how much of this do you think is incompetence and how much of it do you think is corruption? Because again, we know there's corruption there. There's been officers charged, convicted, a whole bunch of things. We know the Jennings department has corruption, Is it incompetence? Is it corruption? Is it a combination?
- [37:55]
Matt Frederick
I can't tell you definitively what it is, but it does feel like there's some weird stuff going on. The Warren Gary person you talked about, he's been accused of some pretty heinous stuff. Like using a vehicle to transport evidence, right? Or discarding evidence after buying, you know, a vehicle that's. That's kind of messed up. There was a lot of stuff going on where evidence was. Was mishandled. And whether or not you believe that's incompetence or something else, it's one or the other for sure, right? It's incompetence where somebody's doing something wrong. It's hard to use that as an excuse when you're talking about the lives of eight women. If you're talking about the life of one person, it's just as important. But you've got eight women. So like somehow in your mind, take death, murder, homicide, and then multiply it by eight and then try and make an excuse for why there's not somebody you know in trouble for that.
- [38:52]
Maggie Freeling
You mentioned that, and that Just makes me think like, well, a lot of them were sex workers and drug users. So women that we often see on. On the margins of society and that are often victims of. Of predators. In this case, though, I don't. I almost feel like that wasn't necessary. It wasn't like an opportunist. That was like, oh, here's a sex worker. I'm gonna kill her. It almost does seem more like a conspiracy. Like these women knew something.
- [39:20]
Payne Lindsay
Yeah, yeah.
- [39:21]
Maggie Freeling
And what did they know? What did they know?
- [39:25]
Matt Frederick
I can't tell you. But again, it gets you to the fictionalized versions of stories like this. Like True Detective.
- [39:32]
Maggie Freeling
Like True Detective.
- [39:33]
Matt Frederick
It goes beyond just the misdeeds of one or two bad guys. It becomes this otherworldly evil thing, you know, I'm not saying that's what this is. I just mean it's one of the most unimaginable things out there. Just being able. Somebody being able to take life that callously, that quickly, that easily, and just wiping people out for it doesn't matter what the reason is. Right. That there's something wrong. There's something. I hate to use the word evil because it is so. Everything is so gray, unfortunately, but in this case, it's just as bad as you can get.
- [40:13]
Maggie Freeling
I want to ask you though, why wouldn't you use the word evil?
- [40:17]
Matt Frederick
I think it's tough for me because that word is so wrapped up in supernatural things.
- [40:23]
Maggie Freeling
But that's why I find the word conspiracy tough. Right. Because people just hear conspiracy and they think crazy. Yeah, but that's not what it means.
- [40:32]
Matt Frederick
We always refer to it as a thought terminating cliche. There are a lot of these things that exist out there. As soon as you hear the word, it's just the rest of your thoughts go away. And that's it. That's what it is. You're a kook. Bye.
- [40:42]
Maggie Freeling
So what would be a better term for something like this where we think these women knew something about something nefarious happening?
- [40:51]
Matt Frederick
It's a cover up. Somebody's covering up their tracks. There's all these allegations of evidence being tampered with and moved and changed, and somebody who had access to that evidence didn't want anything to come to light.
- [41:11]
Maggie Freeling
My theory about this case is that it's definitely not a serial killer. It is a condition conspiracy of a small group of people who want to basically take these women out and erase this milieu of women from the earth.
- [41:29]
Payne Lindsay
And mission accomplished on that, I believe.
- [41:37]
Maggie Freeling
More on this case after a quick break.
- [41:43]
Rob
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- [43:19]
Maggie Freeling
Oh sheet Honey, chill. It's just laundry.
- [43:22]
Matt Frederick
Not that I'm talking about these Arm.
- [43:24]
Rob
And Hammer power sheets.
- [43:25]
Matt Frederick
All the power of Arm and Hammer.
- [43:27]
Rob
Laundry detergent in a convenient tossable sheet.
- [43:30]
Maggie Freeling
Oh sheet.
- [43:32]
Matt Frederick
That's what I'm saying.
- [43:33]
Maggie Freeling
And Arm and Hammer Power sheets deliver an effective clean at a great price. Think of all the laundry we'll do.
- [43:39]
Rob
And all the money we'll save.
- [43:41]
Matt Frederick
Oh sheet Arm and Hammer.
- [43:44]
Maggie Freeling
More power to you.
- [43:48]
John Street
Hey listeners, it's John. If you're enjoying this episode, then check out the Tenderfoot and Iheart original series algorithm. In 2010, a reporter named Thomas Hargrove developed an algorithm with the goal of linking unsolved murders to potential serial killers. And his formula pinpointed the city of Gary, Indiana as the site of an unusual number of strangulations. So Hargrove took his findings and he tried to warn authorities, but he was ignored. All of that changed when Africa Hardy was found strangled to death just four years later. It was soon confirmed that her death wasn't random. It was part of a pattern, just like Hargrove had warned about. Delve into the investigation around Africa's murder, the warnings the police ignored, and discover how science and technology could have stopped a serial killer's deadly spree. Listen to all 12 episodes of Algorithm wherever you get your podcasts or binge ad free exclusively on Tenderfoot Plus. Now back to the show.
- [44:53]
Maggie Freeling
Okay, so a lot of your episode, you used the work of journalist Ethan Brown. He became obsessed with this case around January 2010, when the New York Times reported on the Jennings eight. And he started pouring over public records, investigating and interviewing, and he became convinced this was not a serial killer. Um, he seems to really think there is some sort of COVID up in the police department and that police law enforcement are involved in some way. What did you make of Ethan Brown's reporting?
- [45:29]
Matt Frederick
I just remember learning that when Kristen Gary Lopez was killed, there were a lot of questions with, you know, her friends, her acquaintances, people that were her associates, I guess is what you would call it. And as you know, questions from investigators are coming to all of those individuals about. About Ms. Lopez's murder. Then it appears that one by one, they started losing their lives as well. Doesn't mean that there's a direct connection to that stuff. And that's some of the same. That's at least from my recollection, that's some of the stuff that Ethan Brown found. It's super fishy that it starts with this one death, and then people who were talking to authorities are also losing their lives. That's weird.
- [46:17]
Maggie Freeling
Not only is it weird, I mean, you can't help but think there's something nefarious going on.
- [46:22]
Matt Frederick
Oh, sure. But it doesn't mean like that on the surface. Doesn't mean that it's police officers or law enforcement killing them. It means maybe somebody's watching these women talk to the officers and then, you know, thinking in their own mind, well, she can't be a witness if I take her out.
- [46:41]
Maggie Freeling
It's just so interesting how many of them were taken out, right? And then it's like, how deep has this cover up been dug? And just what did it start with? What happened to Kristen Lopez that we needed to kill six other women? It's just. It's hard to wrap your head around.
- [47:03]
Matt Frederick
You know, it is a good point. So it's a thought experiment, and it's a Dark one. But if it is an officer of the law that happened to either accidentally or purposefully kill one person, let's say, and other people were aware of that, how hard would that person fight to make sure that nobody knows that initial incident occurred?
- [47:27]
Maggie Freeling
Seven more dead women.
- [47:30]
Matt Frederick
I mean, I don't. God, that is. It's unthinkable.
- [47:34]
Maggie Freeling
It is. And then I think it's over something so stupid, like drugs. Then I'm like, you know, did she just know about some drug stuff that the police were maybe doing that we seem to know they were doing? And, like, something just so stupid turned into eight women.
- [47:53]
Matt Frederick
Yeah.
- [47:53]
Maggie Freeling
Losing their lives.
- [47:55]
Matt Frederick
Well, there are rumors in. Within this story, there are rumors that in. In the course of some of the sex work, like one or more Johns got carried away is what the phrase that was used and used. Violence against somebody they were paying and then ended up injuring them gravely or killing them. And then that becomes the inciting incident for the rest of the things that occur. But I don't know that I buy that. I don't think anyone that would be capable of taking all of those actions and then accidentally, let's say, which is a horrible way to think about it, but accidentally murdering somebody. I don't think that person takes the steps to eliminate every possible witness.
- [48:41]
Maggie Freeling
That's what's hard for me to understand. But then if you think that it might be rogue officers who think they're invincible, who think they can do whatever they want.
- [48:55]
Matt Frederick
I know this is all speculation on my part, at least just, you know, outside of the, you know, facts that were that have been reported by some of these amazing people. It's just this is the kind of case it reminds me. It reminds me a lot of the Karen Reed case, just as you said, because it feels like it's impossible for it to be anything else until somebody comes forward or some evidence comes forward that has a very specific story attached to it.
- [49:21]
Maggie Freeling
It's crazy. Matt and I loved picking your brain about this. So thank you for talking with me about this super important case and hopefully we do get some answers someday for these women, the Jennings eight.
- [49:33]
Matt Frederick
Thank you for having me.
- [49:34]
Maggie Freeling
If the people want to know more about where to find you, what you're up to, what can you tell them?
- [49:40]
Matt Frederick
Well, check out my friends Ben and Noel and I on Stuff They Don't Want yout to Know, you can find that wherever you get your podcasts. Also, make sure to check out Monster btk. That's the fourth season of the Monster series. We've done Wayne Williams with Atlanta Monster the Zodiac Killer. In the second one I host that one we've got Monster DC Sniper. That's probably my favorite so far of them. But right now you can get Monster btk. Check it out.
- [50:10]
Maggie Freeling
Amazing. My heart breaks for these families who live without their daughters, sisters, mothers, aunts because we as a society wholly failed them in every way possible. The families had no voice when their loved ones went missing. They had no resources or platforms to advocate. Their loved ones were stigmatized and shamed living in a place it was nearly impossible to escape. And the people in power who were supposed to supply resources and safety nets and community support failed them at best and at worst. They took advantage of, exploited them and covered up their deaths. I remember hearing that no one in the town wanted to bury one of the girls because she was a prostitute. And I know if they were eight women from prominent families, they would have been treated differently. Today, their families and the folks in the town of Jennings continue their pursuit for answers. Here's one example. As explained by Ethan Brown In a 2019 interview with Inside Edition, there were.
- [51:26]
Rob
Large billboards on i10 featuring the faces.
- [51:30]
Maggie Freeling
Of the eight women. What is this?
- [51:32]
Payne Lindsay
This is fascinating and strange.
- [51:35]
Maggie Freeling
These women's faces are on billboards along.
- [51:38]
Payne Lindsay
With billboards for casinos and hunting shops and gas stations.
- [51:45]
Rob
And suddenly here, eight dead women.
- [51:47]
Maggie Freeling
In the middle of all of this, Commander Ramby Cormier with the Jeff Davis Parish Sheriff's Office has been public in defending the actions of law enforcement in these cases. Here's what he said in a 2019 interview with KATC News your first primary.
- [52:04]
Matt Frederick
Duty is to get justice for the victim.
- [52:07]
Rob
It's easy to say I think so.
- [52:09]
Maggie Freeling
And so did this when you're not the investigator because you have no responsibility, you don't have to make a case, present it to the victim and go to court. Even if there is no culpability by police with the murders, there is still a glaring issue with how these deaths were investigated. WWL TV reported in 2014 about the fact that these murders and many others remain unsolved. These eight killings, along with nine other.
- [52:36]
Payne Lindsay
Unsolved murders in the area, gives Jefferson Davis Parish one of the lowest clearance rates for homicide in the country.
- [52:43]
Maggie Freeling
According to the FBI, the parish has a clearance rate of less than 7%.
- [52:48]
Rob
Compared to a national rate of 64%.
- [52:52]
Maggie Freeling
So what is prohibiting authorities from finding answers to major crimes happening in Jennings, Louisiana? Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Up Advantage Weekly. Be sure to tune in next Friday as we dig into another new case until next time.
- [53:28]
Matt Frederick
Up and Vanish Weekly.
- [53:29]
Payne Lindsay
Is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your host are Maggie Freeling and myself, Payne Lindsay.
- [53:37]
Maggie Freeling
The show is written by Maggie Freeling.
- [53:39]
Matt Frederick
Myself and John Street. Executive producers are Donald Albright and myself. Lead producer is John Street.
- [53:48]
Maggie Freeling
Additional production by Meredith Steadman and Mike Rooney.
- [53:52]
Payne Lindsay
Research for the series by Jamie Albright.
- [53:54]
Matt Frederick
Celicia Stanton and Carolyn Tallmadge.
- [53:57]
Maggie Freeling
Edit and mix by Dylan Harrington and Sean Nurney.
- [54:01]
Payne Lindsay
Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan.
- [54:03]
Matt Frederick
Artwork by Byron McCoy Original music by.
- [54:07]
Payne Lindsay
Makeup and Vanity Set.
- [54:09]
Maggie Freeling
Special thanks to Oren Rosenbaum and the.
- [54:11]
Payne Lindsay
Team at uta, Beck Media and Marketing.
- [54:14]
Maggie Freeling
And the Nord Group. For more podcasts like up and Vanish.
- [54:18]
Payne Lindsay
Weekly, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite.
- [54:20]
Maggie Freeling
Podcast app or visit us at Tenderfoot tv.
- [54:25]
Payne Lindsay
Thanks for listening Listening.
- [54:33]
Rob
My name is Sarah Turney. I spent years fighting for justice for my missing sister, Alyssa Turney, before an arrest was finally made in her case after nearly 20 years. But after my experience with the media, law enforcement and the court system, I knew I couldn't stop with Alyssa's case. I know what it's like to fight for media attention, for answers and for justice. After I stopped telling my sister's story, I knew I wanted to help as many other victims, survivors and families as I could. On my podcast, Voices for Justice, I provide unique insight into these tragic cases because I know what it's like to not just listen to these stories, but to live them and more importantly, how to help them by being a true voice for justice. Listen to Voices for Justice in your favorite podcast player Today. You can be so much more than just a passive consumer of true crime. You have the power to help.
- [55:34]
Payne Lindsay
Ghosts, aliens, skinwalkers. What do you believe? Well, brace yourselves for Unexplained Encounters, the podcast where people from around the world share their most bizarre and terrifying experiences with us, and I narrate them to you from alleged sightings of werewolves.
- [56:04]
Matt Frederick
Two.
- [56:05]
Payne Lindsay
Demonic entities in the dark shadows of the room. We're not asked asking you to decide what to believe in. Rather decide what you fear. Follow and rate Unexplained Encounters on Spotify and Apple podcasts or go to eeriecast.com.