UNRESOLVED: Elisa Lam

Summary

---

Up and Vanished Weekly – Episode Summary

Podcast: Up and Vanished Weekly
Episode: UNRESOLVED: Elisa Lam
Date: September 17, 2025
Hosts: Maggie Freleng and Payne Lindsey
Special Guest: Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)

---

Overview

This episode offers an in-depth exploration of the mysterious death of Elisa Lam, a 21-year-old college student whose body was found in a water tank atop the infamous Cecil Hotel in Los Angeles in 2013. Host Maggie Freleng recounts Elisa's life, mental health struggles, travels, and the events that led to her disappearance and death. The show also delves into the lore surrounding the Cecil Hotel and the infamous elevator video that sparked supernatural theories online. Later, Payne Lindsey interviews paranormal investigator Shane Pittman about ghosts, the paranormal, and mental health, discussing why the Elisa Lam case continues to haunt the collective imagination.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Elisa Lam’s Background and Journey

• Elisa was a first-generation Chinese Canadian from Vancouver, described as “friendly, bubbly, and outgoing” but faced recent diagnoses of bipolar disorder and depression.
• Yearning for purpose and adventure amid mental health struggles, Elisa embarked on a solo trip to California in 2013 to “rediscover herself.”

“I must travel for sanity. I'm freaking 21 now. My youth is fading and I haven't even lived.” (Elisa, blog post, 05:13)

---

2. Timeline of Disappearance

• Elisa checks into the Stay on Main Hotel (formerly Cecil Hotel) in LA on January 28, 2013.
• She behaves erratically, reportedly leaving threatening notes for roommates and being moved to a private room, and is escorted out of a TV taping for erratic actions (07:05).
• Last seen alive at a bookstore on January 31; staff reports her as normal, but later that day, hotel staff witness unusual behavior.
• Fails to check out or contact family. Reported missing on February 1st.

---

3. Discovery of Elisa’s Body

• On February 19th, after reports of low water pressure, a maintenance worker discovers Elisa’s naked body in one of four rooftop water tanks.
• Her clothing is found at the bottom of the tank; autopsy finds no trauma or illicit substances, but medication levels are low—suggesting non-compliance with her treatment plan for bipolar disorder.

---

4. The Cecil Hotel’s Dark Reputation

Historical Context:

• Once a luxury 700-room hotel (opened 1927), the Cecil transformed into a notorious site for suicides, murders, and residents including serial killers Richard Ramirez and Jack Unterweger.
• By the 1980s and ‘90s, located in LA’s Skid Row, it became infamous as the “Suicide Hotel.”
• The Stay on Main was a "rebrand," sharing elevators with longer-term Cecil residents (11:05–15:25).

“Amy Price, the former manager of the hotel, claimed she witnessed 80 deaths in the 10 years she worked there.” (11:05)

---

5. The Elevator Video: Internet Speculation and Theories

• Surveillance footage shows Elisa pressing elevator buttons, peering frightened into the hall, dodging unseen pursuers — prompting viral speculation.
  • Theories: She was stalked, hiding from someone, attacked, or part of a supernatural occurrence like the "Elevator Game."
• Police find no evidence of foul play; family cites previous psychotic episodes when off medication.

“Anyone who watches the video has a different interpretation of what they see, making the possibilities of what happened to Elisa endless.” (17:50) “Her death was ruled undetermined and later changed to an accident. Her cause of death was drowning…” (17:50)

---

6. Mental Health as a Critical Factor

• Bipolar I disorder can result in hallucinations, paranoia, and extreme mood swings.
• Toxicology reports reveal only trace amounts of medication; family confirms history of nonadherence resulting in hallucinations and hospitalizations.

“Elisa’s sister says the movements in the elevator match previous episodes when Elisa had been off her medication.” (46:01)
“The high number of pills in her room suggests she had not been taking it regularly.” (46:01)

• Law enforcement concludes Elisa voluntarily entered the tank during an acute psychiatric episode.

---

7. Paranormal Dimensions: Interview with Shane Pittman

• Payne Lindsey interviews paranormal investigator Shane Pittman, critiquing why people gravitate toward supernatural explanations.
• Key ideas include the limitations of human perception, time, and energy, and the psychological need to seek answers beyond rational explanations.

Shane Pittman Notable Quotes

• “Are ghosts real? I would say yes. But as far as defining what ghosts and spirits are, I’ve changed my whole opinion on that… It’s beyond our scope of understanding right now.” (25:35)
• Describing encounter:

  “As a kid, a man sees a hooded figure at the fridge—many years later, now grown, he realizes he’s become that same figure, possibly haunting himself.” (26:06–27:36)

• On hauntings:

  “I think we have more influence over certain hauntings than we may realize. A lot of times, it has to do with the living more than what we perceive as the dead.” (28:35–29:10)

• “If you were an asshole here on earth, you're going to be an asshole... for eternity." - (31:26)

---

8. Why Are Ghosts So Hard to Capture?

• Pittman theorizes about frequency and perception: Our technology—and senses—may not yet be capable of detecting all phenomena.
• Reference to tools that manipulate sound and frequency, and how experiences (including PTSD hallucinations) may hold a shred of unexplored truth.
• Encourages open-mindedness:

“If we didn’t listen to other theories, we’d still be stuck in previous ideas. We’re learning every single day and will never stop.” (44:35–45:26)

---

Notable Quotes & Timestamp Highlights

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Context | |-----------|------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 05:13 | Maggie Freeling | “I must travel for sanity. I'm freaking 21 now. My youth is fading and I haven't even lived.” | | 17:50 | Maggie Freeling | “Anyone who watches the video has a different interpretation...making the possibilities endless.” | | 25:35 | Shane Pittman | “Are ghosts real? I would say yes...it’s beyond our scope of understanding right now.” | | 28:35 | Shane Pittman | “I think we have more influence over certain hauntings than we may realize.” | | 31:26 | Shane Pittman | “If you were an asshole here on earth, you're going to be an asshole...for eternity.” | | 44:35 | Shane Pittman | “If we didn’t listen to other theories, we’d still be stuck...we’re learning every single day.” | | 46:01 | Maggie Freeling | “Elisa’s sister says the movements in the elevator match previous episodes when Elisa had been off her medication.” |

---

Conclusion

• The episode underscores the complexities surrounding Elisa Lam's tragic death: a vulnerable young woman caught between untreated mental illness and a location steeped in sinister history.
• While supernatural theories abound online—fueled by the elevator video and the hotel's reputation—investigative and family accounts point to her mental health as the central factor.
• The conversation with Shane Pittman reveals humanity's deep fascination with the unexplained and highlights the blurred lines between paranormal experiences and mental health crises.
• The case remains a touching reminder on the importance of mental health support and the dangers of jumping to supernatural explanations.

---

Mental health support resources are provided at episode’s end:

“If you or someone you love is facing a mental health emergency, call or text 988 to reach the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline…” (46:01)

---

This summary omits advertisements and non-content sections for clarity and focus on the Elisa Lam case and the related discussions.

Transcript

[Maggie Freeling]

Foreign.

[Tenderfoot TV Host]

You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast.

[Maggie Freeling]

Y'. All. I love this time of year. Fall is here and it's the perfect excuse to refresh your wardrobe. This season I've been turning to Quince and it's made updating my closet so easy. Quince has the elevated essentials for fall 100% Mongolian cashmere starting at $50, washable silk tops and skirts and perfectly tail colored denim that actually fits. By working directly with ethical top tier factories, Quince cuts out the middlemen so you get luxury quality pieces at half the price of similar brands. A few of their sweaters and silk dresses have become staples in my fall wardrobe. They're cozy, stylish and effortless. To wear a cute silk dress with a chunky sweater, I love it. Keep it classy and cozy this fall with long lasting staples. From quints go to quint.comvanishedweekly for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.comvanishedweekly to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comvanishedweekly.

[John (Case Reporter)]

Up and vanished weekly is released every Wednesday and brought to you absolutely free but for one week early access and ad free listening. Subscribe to Tenderfoot plus at tenderfootplus.com or on Apple Podcasts if you're already a subscriber. Thank you for your support.

[Maggie Freeling]

This podcast discusses mature and sensitive content, including descriptions of violence that may be triggering for some audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Hey y'. All. Welcome to another episode of up and Vanish Weekly. I'm Maggie Freeling. I remember the first big trip I took with my friends. We had just graduated and the world was our oyster. We drove from Massachusetts to Texas and I had never left the Northeast. It was the trip of a lifetime. That's how Elisa lam felt. The 21 year old was planning to leave Canada and travel the west coast of the United States. She was angsty and restless and wanted to explore. But what was supposed to be the trip of a lifetime ended in disaster when Elisa vanished without explanation weeks later. She was eventually found deceased, but the circumstances surrounding her death and disappearance have left many wondering what happened in the moments leading up to Elisa Lam's death.

[Narrator/Storyteller]

It's the morning of February 19, 2013 in downtown Los Angeles. Residents and staff of the Cecil Hotel are just beginning their day inside. The front desk is especially busy over the last few days. More multiple reports of low water pressure in the units have been coming in the hotel dispatches a maintenance worker to check the water tanks located on the roof of the building. The hotel has four water tanks, each measuring 10ft high and holding 1,000 gallons of water. The tanks supply both guest rooms as well as an on site kitchen and coffee shop. As the maintenance worker climbs up and begins his inspection, something immediately stands out. The maintenance hatch on one of the tanks appears to be open. He makes his way towards the open hatch and looks inside. What he sees is horrifying. It's the body of a young woman floating in water only feet below the hatch. After arriving on scene, it does not take long for authorities to identify the woman as 21 year old Elisa Lam. Elisa had been reported missing from the Cecil Hotel three weeks earlier, but with one mystery solved, police must now piece together another. Did Elisa willingly go into the water tank or did someone or something send her to a watery grave? From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is up and Vanish Weekly with Payne Lindsay and Maggie Freeling.

[Maggie Freeling]

Elisa Lam was first generation Chinese Canadian, born and raised in Vancouver. She attended the University of British Columbia and was described by friends and acquaintances as friendly, bubbly and outgoing. But Elisa had recently been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and depression. She was struggling along with her family to understand what was happening. Elisa wrote about it on her blog, I feel I'm wasting my time compared to my fellow peers. I had a relapse at the start of the term and had to drop two of the three courses I was taking. Now I'm down to one course and I have missed three weeks of classes. Elisa had not taken a course since summer of 2012. She was prescribed multiple medications, but treating serious mental illness is a process. Alisa still felt restless and aimless. She wrote on her blog, I must travel for sanity. I'm freaking 21 now. My youth is fading and I haven't even lived. So in 2013, she packed up and left for San Diego to start a solo adventure around California. Kind of like a way to rediscover herself and figure out what she wants to do in life. Elisa checked in with her parents every day. She also checked in with her blogs. She announced she had made it to California and was looking for recommendations. At first, everything seemed to be going in a positive direction. Elisa was in a good place. But based on what's been reported, not long after she arrived in LA, things went downhill.

[Narrator/Storyteller]

Elisa arrived in LA and checked into the Cecil Hotel. On January 28, Elisa started acting strangely. Not long after check in, Elisa was sharing her room with several other women who would eventually report threatening behavior to hotel management. According to the women, Elisa had been leaving threatening notes on their beds and at one point locked the women out of the room. Eventually, Elisa was moved to a private room. Also during her stay, Elisa attended a taping of a late night television show, but according to police, was escorted out by security for acting erratically. On January 31, the last day Elisa was seen alive, she spent the morning at a local bookstore purchasing gifts for her family. According to the book's store manager, nothing seemed out of the ordinary. But later that day, something appeared to be significantly wrong with Elisa. Hotel staff noticed her wandering the hotel, at times screaming out. At one point, management had to intervene after Elisa entered a restricted area of the hotel. After being redirected by staff, Alisa made her way towards a bank of elevators. The following day, Alisa was scheduled to leave LA and travel to Santa Cruz. But she never checked out. Her parents, who were accustomed to speaking with Elisa daily, were now growing worried. They had not heard from their daughter since January 30th. Fearing the worst, they called the LAPD and reported Elisa missing.

[Maggie Freeling]

We'll be right back after a quick break. Buying a car in Carvana was so easy. I was able to finance it through them.

[Carvana Advertiser]

I just.

[Maggie Freeling]

Whoa, wait, you mean finance? Yeah, finance. Got pre qualified for a Carvana auto.

[Carvana Advertiser]

Loan, entered my terms and shot from thousands of great car options all within my budget.

[Maggie Freeling]

That's cool.

[Carvana Advertiser]

But financing through Carvana was so easy. Financed, done.

[Maggie Freeling]

And I get to pick up my car from their Carvana vending machine tomorrow.

[Carvana Advertiser]

Financed, right?

[Maggie Freeling]

That's what I said.

[Carvana Advertiser]

You can spend time trying to pronounce.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Financing or you can actually finance and.

[Maggie Freeling]

Buy your car today.

[Carvana Advertiser]

On car finance financing subject to credit approval.

[Maggie Freeling]

Additional terms and conditions may apply.

[Tenderfoot TV Host]

You know how some flavors just are a season for me, fall is crisp air, crunchy leaves, and that first bite of a tart green apple. Which is why I'm obsessed with Gruun's new limited time flavor, Gruni Smith Apple. It's only here through October and it honestly tastes like you're walking through an apple orchard in a cable knit sweater with a warm apple cider in hand. Fall in a gummy. If you haven't heard me talk about groons before, they're my daily, convenient, comprehensive formula packed into a snack pack of gummies a day. Not just a multivitamin, not just a greens gummy, not just a prebiotic. It's all of those things and more at a fraction of the price. And yes, it tastes great. Each pack has 6 grams of prebiotic fiber. That's three times the fiber of lean greens, powders and more than two cups of broccoli. The ingredients the ingredients are backed by over 35,000 research publications. I love that I can throw a pack in my bag and know that I'm getting 20 vitamins and minerals, 60 plus nutrient dense whole foods and none of the stuff that I don't want. They're vegan, gluten free, nut free, dairy free and come in low sugar or sugar free options. Grab your limited edition Gruny Smith Apple Grooms available only through October. Stock up because they will sell out. Get up to 52% off. Use the code Tenderfoot.

[Maggie Freeling]

And we're back. Based on what I saw on her blog, Elisa seemed excited about exploring and getting out on her own. But she was also going through a hard time struggling with treating bipolar 1, a serious mental illness often accompanied by hallucinations, breaks of reality and paranoia. She was also suffering from depression, so sometimes her posts are a bit melancholic, but I would say nothing particularly alarming. It looks like a typical angsty youth blog to me. Things are copacetic until Elisa checks into the infamous Hotel Cecil in downtown Los Angeles. The Hotel Cecil, or the Cecil Hotel as it's become known, has a long and sordid history, one which Elisa likely did not know because the hotel she checked into wasn't actually called the Cecil. It was renamed as part of a rebrand to get away from the shadow cast over the Cecil. The Hotel Cecil opened in 1927 as a 700 room luxury hotel. The former manager described it as sort of the Titanic of hotels. If you've seen American Horror Story Hotel, it's loosely based on the Cecil. But over the years the Cecil became a shell of its former self and the reputation it gained as the Suicide Hotel didn't help. Starting in 1931, a guest died by suicide in his room after taking poison capsules, triggering a series of suicides. Through the 40s and 50s, the Cecil changed from a classy hotel to a budget dive. Then in 1964, a well liked long term resident of the hotel named Pigeon Goldie was found raped and murdered in her room, giving the Cecil the more nefarious reputation it has today. Into the 80s and 90s, as the war on drugs raged, the 50 city blocks surrounding the Cecil became increasingly dangerous. The neighborhood known as Skid Row was targeted as a place to condense marginalized populations into people released from prison, jail or psychiatric hospitals were dropped off in this neighborhood away from the rest of la. Today Skid Row is home to the largest stable unhoused population in the country. According to 2024 statistics, there are nearly 3,800 people experiencing homelessness on Skid Row, with about half of them unsheltered. They live in tent cities of tarps, blankets and boxes. Others live in shelters and the few remaining single room occupancy hotels like the Cecil. Perhaps not surprisingly, as the neighborhood destabilized, it attracted crime and violence. And the Cecil became the residence of multiple serial killers, including Richard Ramirez, the Night Stalker. Ramirez is said to have committed 14 murders while living at the Cecil. Austrian serial killer Jack Unterwerger also stayed at the Cecil. While there, he killed at least three women. Amy Price, the former manager of the hotel, claimed she witnessed 80 deaths in the 10 years she worked there. But again, Elisa wasn't staying in the Cecil. She was staying at a chic hostel called the Stay on Main. It was indeed the Cecil, but it was rebranded in 2011 while half of the hotel remained the Cecil, a place for long term low income residents and stays with the seedy history attached. The Stay on Main was the other side, a completely separate hotel on separate floors from the Cecil. But there was one caveat. All of the guests used the same elevator. And it was inside one of these elevators that investigators would find a truly bizarre and the only piece of evidence.

[Narrator/Storyteller]

By the time police arrived to search Elise's hotel room, housekeeping had already been through. They had bagged up her personal belongings left behind, including her computer, a wallet and medications. According to police, the room had been left in disarray, but there was no sign of foul play nor forced entry. Scent tracking dogs were brought into the hotel, searching all floors, including the roof. According to reports. While inside the hotel, the dogs were able to hit on Elisa's scent, tracking it back to her room. At one point, one of the dogs led police to a large window overlooking the street and leading to a fire escape. An autopsy revealed no injuries that would point to foul play and no illicit substances were found in the toxicology report. During this time, police were also reviewing security camera footage of the hotel around the time Elisa went missing. In particular, one haunting video stood out to investigators. A camera inside one of the hotel's elevators had captured Elisa on January 31, the night she went missing. In the video, Elisa seems to be acting erratically, mashing elevator buttons and even appearing to communicate with someone. The door remained open throughout Elisa's time appearing in the video. At one point, she is seen peering out fearfully into the corridor. Only to move back into the elevator and hide in the corner. Eventually, Elisa exited the elevator and disappeared from view. Two weeks into the investigation, authorities make the decision to release a portion of the video taken in the elevator in hopes of securing new leads. The video quickly goes viral and leads Internet sleuths to propose the question, could supernatural forces possibly be responsible for the disappearance of Elisa Lam?

[Expedia Advertiser]

Foreign.

[Maggie Freeling]

The video of Elisa Lam in the hotel elevator is something you have to see for yourself. Anyone who watches the video has a different interpretation of what they see, making the possibilities of what happened to Elisa endless. Some believe they see a shoe in the video indicating someone is outside of the elevator. And it's also interesting that the elevator door doesn't shut at all. It doesn't even attempt. So some people wonder if a person is outside the elevator holding a button, keeping it open. And if there was, was this someone Elisa was with? Did she know them? Did they do something to her? Remember, anyone in the stay on Main or the Cecil could use the same elevator. Perhaps one of the Cecil guests harmed Elisa. It wouldn't be the first time in the Cecil Hotel. Or maybe someone following Elisa's blog. Investigators explored the idea of someone on the Internet stalking Elisa. She was reaching out, asking for recommendations. People also wonder if the behavior Elisa displayed in the elevator may indicate she was running from someone. She seems like she's hiding at points and she's definitely in distress. And Elisa was found naked in the water tower. Her clothes were at the bottom of the tank, implying that someone else did something to her body. Yet there is no evidence anyone hurt or killed Elisa, Nor any evidence she was put in the water tank by someone else. So that leaves us to Elisa. Elisa seemed excited about life, but she was dealing with a new mental health diagnosis. And Elisa's family said she had a history of not taking her medication. And she's had hallucinations and paranoia after that. Elisa's family also said she wound up in the hospital after not taking her medication in the past. Elisa's death was ruled undetermined and later changed to an accident. Her cause of death was drowning. She entered the tank alive. Toxicology reports didn't find any drugs or alcohol in Elisa's system. And her autopsy revealed only trace amounts of her medication, suggesting she was not taking them consistently, despite having recently filled her prescriptions. So was Elisa off her medication and seeing things? It's very possible. Her diagnosis was new and very serious. She was still working through everything. And often when someone takes medication and it helps and they feel better, which it's supposed to. That can also lead people to have a false sense of being better and so they can stop taking medication. That's a very common situation. And perhaps Elisa was high on life, feeling great about her vacation, and decided to stop taking her medication. I completely feel that the medications Elisa was on also have pretty major side effects, and many people also choose not to take them because of that. So let's say she was disoriented and walked to the roof. Officials said the doors were locked and triggered by alarms. So how could she get to the roof? Dogs traced her scent to a fire escape on the fifth floor, which led to the roof, indicating that it's possible she went up that way. And many can't help but think, considering the Cecil is known as one of the most haunted hotels in the world, that perhaps the answer isn't something we can fully comprehend. Some believe Elisa was playing a paranormal game in the elevator known as the Elevator Game. It's a Korean game that allegedly takes you to an alternate dimension through a specific button sequence on an elevator. Some think Elisa was playing this game with one of the many spirits that are said to haunt the Cecil Hotel. Can Elisa see someone in the video that we can't? I'll admit I'm much better versed in reporting on serious mental illness than the paranormal, but Payne spoke with paranormal investigator Shane Pittman for an episode of Talking to Death. Shane has starred in the Holzer Files on the discovery channel and 21 days haunted on Netflix. Shane has spent countless hours in allegedly haunted buildings, some of the most notorious in the world, like the Hotel Cecil, and he spoke to Payne about how his search for answers, he says, has led to a better understanding of his own mental health. When we come back from a quick break, we'll bring you Pain's conversation with Shane.

[Carvana Advertiser]

If you're an experienced pet owner, you already know that having a pet is 25% belly rubs, 25% yelling drop it. And 50% groaning at the bill from every pet visit. Which is why Lemonade Pet Insurance is tailor made for your pet and can save you up to 90% on vet bills. It can help cover checkups, emergencies, diagnostics, basically all the stuff that makes your bank account get nervous. Claims are filed super easily through the Lemonade app and half get settled instantly. Get a'@lemonade.com pet and they'll help cover the vet bill for whatever your pet swallowed after you yelled drop it. When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn [e-mail].

[Maggie Freeling]

And now here's John with this week's critical missing case.

[John (Case Reporter)]

Today's case comes to us from namus. Authorities are seeking help locating a man who went missing from the Quincy, California area a few a few weeks back. 41 year old Bradley J. Prestigiacomo was last seen on Sunday, August 3, 2025. It's believed that he left a friend's residence around 2:30am and he was supposed to attend a party but he never showed up and he hasn't been seen or heard from since. Now it's reported that on Tuesday, August 5th, Bradley's black and green 1995 Dodge Ram 1500 pickup was found just a few miles south of McQuincie. Multiple search and rescue teams have been sweeping the area for Bradley, but they're looking for tips with any information about where he may have gone. Bradley's described as a white male, 6 foot 3 inches tall with a weight of 186 pounds and brown eyes. He has a goatee and brown hair that's short on the sides and pulled back in a ponytail. He may also be wearing glasses. Now, listeners, we need your help spreading the word about Bradley so you can check out the up and Vanish weekly Instagram page at UAV Weekly to see a picture of Bradley and to share our post for more visibility. And lastly, if you've seen Bradley or you know any information about where he could be, please contact the Plumas County Sheriff's office at 530-283-6375.

[Maggie Freeling]

All right, we're back.

[Payne Lindsay]

Thanks for coming to me, man.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Hey, thank you for having me, man. I appreciate it.

[Payne Lindsay]

I just want to ask you point blank, to be honest, are ghosts real?

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

I would say yes. You would say yes? I would say yes. But I would say as far as like defining what ghosts and spirits are, I've changed my whole opinion on that. Okay. I know that we're communicating with someone or something, but I don't really know what it is. I just know it's beyond our scope of understanding right now. So in my opinion, the how I label ghosts right now is something that I cannot see that I'm communicating with. Yeah, I would say ghosts are real.

[Payne Lindsay]

Okay, so what do you think it.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Is, you know, I don't know. I have a lot of theories on that. Like it could be interdimensional, it could be ourselves. So there's this interesting story from a guy he tells where he was a young kid and he walked into his kitchen to get a sandwich. And he was like 5 or 6 years old. He walks in and he sees this hooded figure opening up his refrigerator. And it freaked him the hell out. And he ran out of there scared to death. Fast forward though. He's about in his early 20s, in the same house, he's visiting his parents. And he runs down to get a snack, which is a peanut butter sandwich. And he runs down and he opens the refrigerator, he's got a hoodie on, and he sees a small figure in the doorway. And at first he's like, this is strange, it doesn't make any sense. But it freaked him out again. But then he remembered when he was six years old, he saw a hooded figure in the same exact spot that he was standing to go get a snack. And when he opened the refrigerator and he's thinking that maybe he saw a version of himself in the future. So maybe we're haunting ourselves. I know it's kind of a confusing thing, but.

[Payne Lindsay]

So he saw a ghost essentially two times and like potentially actualized that event.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Right.

[Payne Lindsay]

What does that mean to you? Is there some sort of time plane that we don't understand? Is it an imprint?

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

I believe, I believe it is an imprint. I do believe that it's a time thing too, because time is a man made construct. I believe that we are more powerful than we kind of give ourselves credit for. I use this analogy all the time that, you know, I can walk into a room after a couple had been done fighting and they're not saying a word. I can walk in. But you can feel the tension from that argument. Even though they don't say anything to.

[Payne Lindsay]

You at all, are you actually feeling something or are you observing them being different?

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Well, I think it's a. It's a mixture of both because I've had this happen more than one time where you walk in, they're off doing their own thing, but you can feel that something's not right.

[Payne Lindsay]

You can feel like an energy or something, right?

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

You can feel like a shot shift. But you know, if you're walking in certain places, you know, you're on high alert, it's something within you that is telling you, hey, be careful. It's that gut instinct. And I think that that has something to do with it. I think that we have more influence over certain hauntings than we, you know, we may realize. So a lot of people say, oh, this place is haunted, or whatever. And I think a lot of times it has to do with the living more than what we perceive as the dead.

[Payne Lindsay]

You know, living is in the observer.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Of it or the observer. Sometimes the people that are inhabiting the place, they're living there. Okay. I think sometimes it has to do with maybe the environment, things that are going on, stress levels, and whatever that energy is emitting at the time could play a factor in some of these strange and unusual things that's going on in people's lives.

[Payne Lindsay]

Okay. So instead of it just being the Hollywood version of, you know, it's your dead great grandpa, it's maybe your own energy in your life interacting with your surroundings in some sort of way.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Absolutely.

[Payne Lindsay]

That's observable to others even.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Right. You know, there's been, since the dawn of time, probably what, millions, billions of people that have passed from this physical plane. And we confine them to structures. So often we'll say, this place is haunted. This place over here is haunted. But I feel that, you know, if that's true, we pass on and some. A fraction of us stay, then they're everywhere, or a piece of that person that was left behind is everywhere so we can encounter them daily.

[Payne Lindsay]

I feel like there's this sort of Hollywood image of, or I guess Hollywood portrayal of good and evil. So frequently, when it comes to hauntings and ghosts, it's always usually portrayed as a good or evil presence. And I feel like that's not very scientific. But I mean, that being said, you know, you hear stories about stuff that feels darker or scarier in that way. But do you perceive those darker instances as an evil presence, or is it just how we're perceiving it? I've just thought before, what if something doesn't know where it is? Or, like, if it's, you know, trapped in a place and it's, like, stuck, or maybe it's not even. It's, like the remnants of what it once was and it doesn't even know what it is anymore. I could imagine that being frustrating. I'd be banging walls and shit, too.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Yeah, right. Well, and, you know, we always fear what we don't understand, too. So a lot of people, whenever they have some sort of unexplained experience, they immediately jump to fear. It's that fight or flight mechanism. You're wanting to flee the area because you don't understand what's going on. That doesn't mean it's evil. That doesn't mean it's necessarily bad. To your point, I feel like if there is an instance where you do stay here for whatever reason after you die, then if you were an asshole here on earth, you're going to be an asshole. You stay in the apple, I mean, for eternity. Think about it like your true essence, who you are. I mean, if you're a good person in life, it would make sense that you would be a good person. If you stay behind in some sort. If a piece of you left or stayed behind, then you would be still a good person again. If you were an. You'll be an again, you know.

[Payne Lindsay]

Ghost. Yeah, I mean, I understand the just human nature part of the curiosity of paranormal stuff.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Right.

[Payne Lindsay]

I think that for ages we've been fascinated by things that we don't understand. And there's a lot of stuff that we still don't understand, especially in the paranormal realm of things. And I don't know what any of it means or if it's, you know, something spiritual or scientific. I've lean more to the scientific side of it. But how do you get wrapped into it in a way where you can be a professional investigator of it? What was it that kind of made it more than just curiosity?

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

My first experience was when I was 6 years old and very profound. I went to my mother about it and it was a very impactful thing for me. And during that time in my life, without going into much detail, there was a lot of abuse, a lot of really bad stuff in my life. It was within the moments where I was wanting to give up and call it quits. When I would have these weird, strange, unusual moments that would kind of snap me back and say, okay, there's more than the shit life that you're living. There's more beyond it that you can't understand. Once I got into my teenage years, I started researching and reading all the. The books. Harry Price, Hans Holzer, all of the books based on the experiences that I was having at the time.

[Payne Lindsay]

Which were what exactly?

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Well, I mean, for instance, when I was 12 years old, I had. I was in my room and the closet door was kind of slightly open. And we had one of those old houses where the carpet was, was higher, so the doors would always scrape. The top of the carpet would leave like a mark on there. And it was slightly open. And I was going to sleep. About five minutes goes by and the door slams. And I have siblings. So I was thinking, okay, somebody's playing a Trick on me. So I go open the closet door. Nothing was in there. So I was like, this is weird. And me being the smart southern man that I am, I leave it open again and I go lay back down. Probably a little time happens and. And it slams again. This time I'm freaked out. I run to my parents room, which is across the hall, and they're like, shane, you're just. You're trying to stay up, go to bed, right? So they take me back to bed, and for whatever reason that closet doors open again and it slams for a third time after they leave the room. This time, they run into my room. And I grew up in a religious household, so my mother is pleading the blood of Jesus over me, doing whatever she can just to, like, whatever's going on, it needs to stop now. And I ended up sleeping in their room that night. I would have weird visions or dreams, I guess you can call it, where there would be people that would walk up to my bedside, and some of them would look like they're terrified. Some would say, where am I at? Where am I at? Where am I at? I don't know where. That's the kind of stuff they were.

[Payne Lindsay]

Saying at the edge of your bed. Like, they didn't know where they were. Literally, like, where they weren't, like, haunting you. They're like, where is this?

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Like, help me. Where am I at? What kind of. What they look like? So they look like us.

[Payne Lindsay]

That scares me.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Kind of. They look like us that they don't.

[Payne Lindsay]

Know where they are.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Right.

[Payne Lindsay]

More than them knowing where they are and who you are.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

And at that time, it's like, okay, am I. Is this just my subconscious? Is this. Because I'm going through a lot of crap, right?

[Payne Lindsay]

Yeah, yeah. Am I just stressed imagining these things?

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Right. But then I would have other experiences, like the door slamming and stuff. Things that I knew even at a young age. Okay, it can't be a draft in my room because the carpet there, like, it's hard for me to push the door closed. There's physical stuff too, right? So there's compounding evidence. And even to this day, how I kind of do investigations is I don't just jump at everything and say, you know, if I hear footsteps, I don't say, oh, my God, that's a ghost. I look at it as if there's compounding evidence that's leading to something that. That I would assume would be more paranormal in nature. Then I would take a look at it and try to research further into what or who we're communicating with.

[Payne Lindsay]

I just have this image in my head now. These people on the edge of your bed, wondering where they are. Let's just pretend for a moment that those were definitely ghosts. How would you rationalize that? What are they doing there?

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

I would say that they're. If they are real, I would say that they are in some transitional period and maybe a part of them has stayed behind and for whatever reason, they're stuck. And again, like I said, I would think, okay, maybe I'm just dreaming. But this was more than one occurrence and more than one house that I was in. Sometimes in stressful environments, sometimes when my life was going great. But it was these moments where it's like, okay, if this is real and not even saying it is for certain, but if it's real, I want to find out more about it. So the more that I researched and stuff, the more I saw that there was many other people that were having similar experiences. And I just wanted to know more. Fast forward to this time. Whenever I'm at events and I'm doing things, I get to talk to people not just about the paranormal and the spooky stuff, but about mental health. And, like, I've been there. I took a leap, you know, If I didn't. If all of these things didn't play out like they were supposed to, I wouldn't be up here talking to you right now. I wouldn't be able to do what I love. So I get to encourage other people that may be in my same shoes. Yeah. At that time. And be able to give them some hope. And that's something that is much more rewarding to me than a TV show or anything else.

[Payne Lindsay]

Of course. Yeah. That human connection is priceless. Right.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Right. And believe it or not, man, there's so many people that come to my events that they come to escape their own personal hell in their life. And they come. This is something that they love, but at the same time, they come to kind of escape just the everyday life of what they're going through and just.

[Payne Lindsay]

Sort of live in this world for a moment.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Right. And it shows them. Kind of like what I was thinking when I was younger is like, there's more beyond this life that I'm living. There's more beyond that. And people get to come to these events and share in experiences of others that may be going through similar things that they're going through. And it's just a time of fellowship and connection. And I think that's, again, more important than tv, more important than anything else.

[Maggie Freeling]

Back After a short break.

[John (Case Reporter)]

Hey, listeners, if you have a tip or theories about a case you want to share or a case of interest you'd like to recommend to us, then we want to hear from you. Email us casesenderfoot tv, DM us on Instagram avweekly or give us a call at 770-545-6411. You can also join the conversation on our discord at Discord GG upandvanished. Now back to the show.

[Payne Lindsay]

Why is it that ghosts are so hard to capture on video and pictures? I mean, there has to be something that scientifically explains that a little bit later, or they're just really good at ducking it somehow.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Right Again, on Holzer Files, we have captured some stuff. I think it's hand. Yeah, hand. There was a mist. It was Howard's lodge. I believe it is. There was a mist going upstairs. Some really interesting stuff that is kind of hard for me.

[Payne Lindsay]

Some anomalies that we're not.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Right. It's hard for me to pinpoint what it is. Okay. And I think that it has something to do with our perception of what we can see, what our eyes can physically see. And that's why IR can. It can capture things and it can see in a different scope than what our human eye could see. I think it could be all frequency related. I think that may have something to do with it that they may be showing up, but it's. It's on certain frequencies, certain wavelengths.

[Payne Lindsay]

Right.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Even cameras less physical than it is.

[Payne Lindsay]

I don't know.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Well, even our technology that we have maybe is not caught up to maybe the frequency that they're can capture.

[Payne Lindsay]

That necessarily.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Yeah. I think even with evp, Electronic voice phenomenon, you know, whenever you capture something on a recorder, a voice that you know was not yours or anybody else's, there's this guy, Bill Chappell, that makes all of this tech and stuff, and he will tell you firsthand that he doesn't believe in ghosts. He just believes that there's some strange shit going on and he's testing theories and testing things. But he told me something that was really interesting about evp. He's like, you know, Shane, right now that I have this, this microphone that can shoot a laser to a certain part of a room, and I can play music in that frequency and it can sound like the music is coming from over there, but really it's coming from this device I have in my hand. But I can make the sound go wherever I want it to go.

[Payne Lindsay]

What is still like audibly coming from this device in his hand.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Yeah. So it's electromagnetic, it's pinging somewhere, it's.

[Payne Lindsay]

Pinging somewhere else, creating this perception that.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

It'S not coming from right here in a frequency that the human ear can hear. So like if there's a group of people, right. Sitting in an audience, he can point this microphone to the right half of the audience and only the right half can hear what's coming through. And the other half would be like, I'm not hearing anything. Right. So if there's things like that, I believe that there's so much more in regards to frequency, in regards to maybe our visual spectrum of what we can see that is unexplained, that maybe there's more, that if our eyes could see in that scope, we'd be seeing a hell of a lot more. So I think that the reason why sometimes we don't capture it is maybe we don't, maybe we haven't caught up to the technology to, to be able to capture something like that. And maybe we're on a certain wavelength in certain times that we're able to see anomalies and we're able to see things, hypnosis and things like that. I think maybe if we're in certain states, we're able to see and understand more. It's the same stuff with people who go through ptsd. They'll claim all the time they see all kinds of things. And we say, yeah, well, it could just be because it's a stress disorder, it's all this stuff and we'll label it as a medical disorder. But who's to say that they're not really seeing the things that they're seeing sometimes?

[Payne Lindsay]

Well, either way it's still a reality to them.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Exactly. So there's a fine line.

[Payne Lindsay]

Yeah, you're right.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Yeah, there's a fine line. You got to think for the longest time people thought the earth was flat. People entertained ideas that, hey, the Earth isn't flat. Yeah, everybody who thought the earth was flat at the time was like, you're nuts. But if they didn't listen to that reason, we wouldn't have the advancements we have now. At one point in time, people thought something was a certain way, but if they didn't listen to other theories and things like that, then we would still be stuck in that. Right.

[Payne Lindsay]

If we didn't challenge that.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Right, right.

[Payne Lindsay]

It's so easy to be in the moment and think that we've learned everything.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Right.

[Payne Lindsay]

I think that's very naive and close minded to think that way. But I totally get how even society makes it easier to think that. But we are literally learning shit every.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Single day and we'll never stop.

[Payne Lindsay]

And we'll never stop.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

I don't think we'll ever stop.

[Payne Lindsay]

You don't stop, period.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

And this is why I love what I do so much. A lot of, a lot of people look at it and be like, oh, you believe in ghosts, you believe in all this stuff. But I think the search for something is far more rewarding to me than actually finding the answer to all of this stuff. I think the search and building the connections along the way is far more valuable to me.

[Maggie Freeling]

Many are quick to jump to conclusions involving the supernatural as a way to explain Elisa Lam's tragic death. They see her movements, her behavior as bizarre and of course, the Cecil's haunted history. And while Elisa's loved ones are still looking for answers, they do seem to accept that it was more than likely a tragic result of Elisa's serious struggles with mental health. Elisa's sister says the movements in the elevator match previous episodes when Elisa had been off her medication. The high number of pills in her room suggest she had not been taking it regularly. In the end, law enforcement says Elisa voluntarily entered the water tank with her bipolar as a contributing factor. And once she was inside, there was almost no chance for her to pull herself out. Her clothing being off could be due to hypothermia, people often feeling hot when actually freezing or removing clothing to become lighter in an attempt to swim. I also think this is the most likely scenario of what happened to Elisa. I've lived with a loved one with serious mental illness, and I have seen them in similar states to Elisa in the Elements elevator as well. Elisa's family sued the Cecil Hotel for wrongful death, alleging negligence on the hotel's part for not locking the water tanks. While I believe the story of Elisa Lam is a tragic accident, many find it hard to ignore that on this trip all seemed okay until she entered the Hotel Cecil, a place with a violent history and haunted reputation. If you or someone you love is facing a mental health emergency, call or text 988 to reach the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline or visit 988lifeline.org to chat with a trained crisis counselor. Y', all, thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of up and Vanish Weekly. Be sure to tune in next week as we dig into another new case. Until next time.

[Payne Lindsay]

Up and Vanish Weekly is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your hosts are Maggie Freeling and myself, Payne Lindsay. The show is written by Maggie Freeling, myself and John Street. Executive producers are Donald Albright and myself. Lead producer is John Street. Additional production by Meredith Steadman and Mike Rooney. Research for the series by Jamie Albright, Celicia Stanton and Carolyn Tallmadge. Edit and mix by Dylan Harrington and Sean Nurney. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Artwork by Byron McCoy. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Special thanks to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at uta, Beck Media and Marketing and the Nord Group. For more podcasts like up and Vanish weekly, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us@Tenderfoot TV. Thanks for listening.

[Shane Pittman (Paranormal Investigator)]

Listening.

[Expedia Advertiser]

Martha listens to her favorite band all the time. In the car, gym, even sleeping. So when they finally went on tour, Martha bundled her flight and hotel on Expedia to see them live. She saved so much she got her seat close enough to actually see and hear them. Sort of. You were made to scream from the front row. We were made to quietly save you. More Expedia made to Travel Savings vary and subject to availability. Flight inclusive packages are atoll protected.