UNRESOLVED: Ellen Greenberg

Summary

Up and Vanished Weekly: UNRESOLVED – Ellen Greenberg

Release Date: June 18, 2025 | Host: Maggie Freeling | Co-Host: Payne Lindsey | Guest: Amy Schlossberg

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Introduction

In this episode of Up and Vanished Weekly, hosts Maggie Freeling and Payne Lindsey delve into the perplexing case of Ellen Greenberg, a 27-year-old teacher whose sudden and violent death in January 2011 has left her family and community searching for answers. With insights from criminologist Amy Schlossberg, the episode explores whether Ellen's demise was truly a suicide or if foul play was involved.

Background: Ellen Greenberg’s Life and Struggles

Ellen Greenberg was an only child known for her organizational skills and extroverted personality. She fostered strong relationships, bringing diverse friend groups together, and was deeply committed to her role as a first-grade teacher at Juanita Park Academy. In her personal life, Ellen was engaged to Sam Goldberg, a 28-year-old TV producer, and they were planning to marry on August 13, 2011.

Despite her outward success, Ellen began showing signs of severe anxiety and stress months before her untimely death. Friends and family observed a noticeable shift in her behavior—from confident and outgoing to increasingly insecure and reliant on Sam. She struggled with work-related pressures and even considered quitting her job to move back with her parents in Harrisburg for support.

The Day of Ellen’s Death: January 26, 2011

On the morning of January 26, 2011, Philadelphia was preparing for a significant snowstorm. Ellen maintained regular routines, communicating pleasantly with her mother around 7:00 am and texting a friend later that morning about the impending storm.

At approximately 4:45 pm, Sam left their shared apartment to work out at the gym. Thirty minutes later, he returned to find the apartment door locked from the inside. After unsuccessful attempts to contact Ellen and growing frustration, Sam forced the door open around 6:30 pm. He discovered Ellen in the kitchen, lying in a pool of blood with a knife in her chest—a scene that would ignite years of controversy and suspicion.

Notable Quote:

Sam Goldberg [07:06]: "I just walked into my apartment. She's on the floor with blood everywhere. There's a knife sticking out of her heart."

Initial Investigation and Medical Examiner’s Ruling

First responders quickly pronounced Ellen dead, and authorities initially ruled her death a suicide. This conclusion was based on the presence of a knife in her heart, the lack of visible signs of struggle, and the absence of items typically associated with foul play. However, inconsistencies soon emerged:

• Multiple Stab Wounds: Ellen had 20 stab wounds to her back, neck, skull, and chest, some of which appeared post-mortem.
• Locked Door: The door was reportedly locked from the inside, raising questions about how Sam could have entered without forcing the lock.
• Defensive Wounds: There were no defensive wounds, but multiple bruises in various stages of healing suggested prior injuries.

Notable Quote:

Maggie Freeling [08:06]: "Statistically, women who die by suicide, it's usually not by stabbing, let alone 20 times across her body."

Challenging the Suicide Ruling

Ellen’s family was devastated and skeptical of the suicide ruling. They pointed to:

• Multiple Injuries: The nature and number of stab wounds made suicide implausible.
• Behavior Before Death: Ellen had been actively seeking help, trying different medications, and showed signs of improvement.
• Locked Door Scenario: Questions arose about whether the door was genuinely locked or tampered with, potentially indicating a break-in or forced entry.

Notable Quote:

Ellen’s Father, Joshua Greenberg [46:48]: "We don't believe our daughter committed suicide."

Expert Insight: Amy Schlossberg’s Analysis

Criminologist Amy Schlossberg provided a detailed analysis, highlighting that self-inflicted stab wounds, especially in the manner seen in Ellen’s case, are exceedingly rare. She emphasized the lack of a thorough investigation and the possibility of confirmation bias affecting the initial ruling. Schlossberg raised critical questions:

• Physical Feasibility: Could Ellen have inflicted these wounds on herself, especially the multiple, deep stab wounds without incapacitating herself early in the process?
• Locked Door Mystery: The mechanics of how the door was locked remain unclear, with potential discrepancies in eyewitness accounts.
• Prior Injuries: The bruises suggested possible prior abuse or violence, which were not adequately explored.

Notable Quotes:

Amy Schlossberg [29:56]: "I don't know that it is physically possible that she could have done this to herself."

Amy Schlossberg [32:05]: "Self-inflicted stab wounds are one of the most uncommon forms of suicide and only account for about 3% of all suicides."

Sam Goldberg’s Role and Scrutiny

Sam Goldberg, Ellen’s fiancé, found her body and called 911. While he was cleared of immediate suspicion, his actions and the timeline have been scrutinized. Schlossberg noted that his behavior on that day did not conclusively indicate guilt but acknowledged the logical suspicion that often falls on the closest person to a victim.

Notable Quote:

Amy Schlossberg [37:04]: "Listen, he is, you know, right now, he's innocent until proven guilty. Right?"

Ongoing Legal and Investigative Developments

In 2021, the Philadelphia court ruled to amend Ellen’s official cause of death from suicide to undetermined, allowing for the possibility of reopening the investigation. Ellen’s family continues to advocate for a thorough re-examination of the evidence, pushing for federal authorities to take over the case.

Notable Quote:

Maggie Freeling [46:19]: "Ellen's family cannot comprehend why it has taken so long to properly investigate their daughter's death."

Conclusion: A Case Still Unresolved

Ellen Greenberg’s death remains a deeply contested and unresolved case. While initial authorities concluded suicide, mounting evidence and expert analysis suggest that her death may warrant further investigation as a potential homicide. The case highlights issues of mental health stigmatization, investigative oversights, and the profound impact on those left behind seeking justice.

Final Quote:

Maggie Freeling [47:00]: "... I truly don't know how 20 stab wounds, some of which are post mortem, can be ruled a suicide, but I suppose anything is possible."

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Final Thoughts

This episode underscores the complexities involved in determining the true nature of Ellen Greenberg’s death. With new developments and continued advocacy from her family, the pursuit of truth in Ellen’s case exemplifies the challenges faced in the realm of unsolved crimes and wrongful convictions.

For more in-depth analysis and updates, listeners are encouraged to follow Up and Vanished Weekly and engage with the ongoing discussions surrounding this unresolved case.

Transcript

[Maggie Freeling]

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[Rob]

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[Payne Lindsay]

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[John]

Vanish Weekly is released every Wednesday and brought to you absolutely free, but for one week early access and ad free listening. Subscribe to Tenderfoot plus at tenderfootplus.com or on Apple Podcasts if you're already a subscriber. Thank you for your support.

[Maggie Freeling]

This podcast discusses mature and sensitive content, including descriptions of violence that may be triggering for some audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Hey y' all. Welcome to up and Vanish Weekly. I'm your host, Maggie Freeling. Generally, weddings should be a happy day, a time to celebrate with family, friends, and mark a new chapter of your life. But the events leading up to that day can come with a lot of stress. Planning, organizing, making arrangements. It's a lot of moving parts and it can be a lot for people to deal with, especially on top of routine life stress. The question at the heart of today's case is whether that kind of stress could have compounded some of the internal struggles that 27 year old Ellen Greenberg had been working through months before her wedding. Some say that it has everything to do with it. Others say the stress she'd been under and the difficulties she was facing, those things had absolutely no bearing on what happened to her. Ellen's case has had a lot of coverage, more than we'll be able to cover in just one episode. But we'll touch on the main points later. I'll be joined by Amy Schlossberg, a friend of mine and a criminologist who has looked into Ellen's case as part of her work at Fairleigh Dickinson University. So after we lay the groundwork around what was going on in Ellen's life leading up to her death, Amy's going to join me for a deeper look because there are a lot of questions. Here's Rob with the details of that day.

[Rob]

It's Wednesday, January 26, 2011, in the city of Brotherly Love. As Philadelphia area residents start their morning routines, Local news outlets blast airwaves with reports of a massive snowstorm slowly making its way across the northeast.

[Amy Schlossberg]

We've really seen the snowfall start to intensify.

[Rob]

Inhabitants of New York, New Jersey and Eastern Pennsylvania brace themselves and begin making preparations for what would become a historic snowfall for the region. Around 5:15pm that afternoon, 28 year old Sam Goldberg exits an elevator making his way towards his sixth floor residence. Sam had just finished a workout at the gym in his Venice loft's apartment complex. As he approaches his doorway, he turns the handle and pushes. But his access is abruptly stopped. He realizes the door is locked from the inside. When he'd left the apartment an hour earlier, his fiance Ellen stayed behind. Sam knocks. There's no answer. He knocks again. Still no answer. Sam begins pounding as he takes out his phone and begins texting Ellen.

[Amy Schlossberg]

Hello?

[Maggie Freeling]

Open the door.

[Rob]

What are you doing? As minutes tick by with no response, Sam grows increasingly more frustrated. I'm getting pissed. Hello? You better have an excuse. What the fuck? You have no idea. Sam's pounding begins to attract the attention of neighbors. But his concern is starting to mount. He continues to grow more agitated and after nearly two hours with no response from Ellen, Sam finally forces the door open, unprepared for what awaits him.

[Sam Goldberg]

I just walked into my apartment. She answered on the floor with blood everywhere. There's a night sticking out of her heart.

[Rob]

The scene that Sam stumbled upon inside his apartment has been the source of a lot of speculation over the past 15 years. While authorities quickly ruled Ellen's death as an obvious suicide, many believe the evidence tells a very different story. From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is up and Vanish Weekly with Payne Lindsay and Maggie Freeling.

[Maggie Freeling]

Like I said at the top, this case has been widely covered even in this year's 2024 presidential election, which I'll get to later. But that can also add to a lot of confusion and false information. We're gonna dive into that, but I want to start with Ellen's background. Ellen was an only child and according to friends, she was relentlessly organized. She was also an extrovert, bringing her friends from different groups together and having them all become friends themselves. According to her father, quote, she just made them all get along and she was a leader in that respect. It was a talent few people have. Ellen was also in a long term relationship. She shared an apartment with Samuel Goldberg, with who she had been in a relationship with for three years. They met on a blind date. Sam was a 28 year old TV producer and Ellen's parents called him a quote, fine young man. In the summer of 2010 they got engaged and planned on getting married the following year. August 13, 2011. They had just sent out save the date cards for their wedding and paid several deposits. Now this is where things start to turn. Ellen was a first grade teacher at Juanita Park Academy and she was described by her colleague as extremely dedicated to her students and an excellent teacher teacher. She loved her job as a first grade teacher, but people close to her say she was beginning to feel overwhelmed and wasn't acting like herself. Before long it became clear something was going on and the question was how serious was it?

[Rob]

Those close to Ellen began to notice a change in her behavior in the months before her death. They say the once confident and outgoing extrovert began feeling insecure and unsure of herself. One friend noticed how reliant Ellen became on Sam. She shared that Ellen always needed to ask his opinion and began following him like a puppy during parties. A cousin later stated that Ellen went from being one of the happiest people I knew to filled with anxiety when people asked her how she was doing. There would be a long silence. Ellen's parents also began noticing the change in her behavior. Before long, everyone wondered if there may be more going on. She wasn't sharing. Over time, she confided in her parents about how overwhelmed she was becoming with work. Eventually, Ellen began spending some nights with family. At one point, Ellen even mentioned she was considering quitting her job and asked her parents if she could move back in with them two hours away in Harrisburg. It was a strange request considering she and Sam had been living together and were making wedding plans. When they pried. Ellen insisted it had nothing to do with Sam, but her demeanor continued to spiral. Eventually, Ellen's parents recommended she go see a psychiatrist to try and get some help. The psychiatrist would later share that Ellen was struggling with anxiety and stress and wanted to get out of the home. The doctor prescribed medication to help her with symptoms, which eventually had a positive effect. A couple of weeks before her death, Ellen texted her mom, sandy, I'm starting the med.

[Sandy Greenberg]

I know you don't understand, but I can't keep living with feeling this way.

[Rob]

While Ellen's loved ones were thankful she was getting the help she needed, they couldn't help wondering what really may be going on and if there was a deeper layer to the story that was fueling such a drastic change in her behavior.

[Maggie Freeling]

Major depression is one of the most common mental illnesses affecting more than 21 million American adults each year year and anxiety is even more common in the United States. Over 40 million adults have an anxiety disorder and Ellen wasn't an outlier. Family and friends noticed a behavior change in Ellen and it seemed to indicate that she was in a difficult place but trying to work through it. We'll be right back after a quick break. Fresh air, sunshine and good food. That's what spring is all about. And HelloFresh is making it so easy to enjoy all three. Their meals are quick, home cooked and seriously delicious. Like the chicken Dijon we just had last week. It was tangy, rich and ready in under 30 minutes. Even better. I didn't have to plan a thing this spring. HelloFresh is stepping it up with new ready made meals. These are chef crafted dishes that are ready in three meals minutes. Perfect when I have back to back meetings or I just want to eat and get outside while the sun is still out. They use fresh seasonal ingredients and I've noticed how much better I feel when I stick to these balanced meals instead of last minute takeout. Feel great with these meals that fit your spring schedule and make the season even more delicious. Go to hellofresh.comvanished weekly 10fm now to get 10 free meals with a free item for life. One per box with active subscription free meals applied at discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan.

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[Maggie Freeling]

And we're back. So the question for people has been how serious was her mental health concerns before her death? In a one week span, Ellen visited a psychiatrist three times. The psychiatrist told police Ellen initially presented with severe anxiety. She explained that Ellen was experiencing difficulty at work and was overwhelmed and felt pressure. They scheduled her another appointment for January 27. After her death, the psychiatrist said that Ellen had nothing but good things to say about Sam, mentioned they were getting married and he was wonderful. Ellen never verbalized any suicidal thoughts and she had tried medication. Ellen tried Zoloft and Xanax before finding a medication that worked. On January 17, she texted her mom. Klonopin helped, thank God. By the last appointment, Ellen was doing much better and settled on staying at the school until June. Based on all of this, it seems like although Ellen was going through a difficult time, she may have been on an upswing prior to her death. And to me it seems like she wanted to get better, she wanted to get help. She was trying different medications. She was trying psychiatry, which makes everything we know about the day she died even more confusing. Here's Rob with what has been revealed about that day.

[Rob]

The morning of Wednesday, January 26th seems to have started like any other day for Ellen. As the Philadelphia area was bracing for the major winter storm, Ellen school district was making arrangements to release students early before conditions worsened. Around 7am, Ellen and her mom Sandy talked on the phone on their way to work. Sandy said they had a pleasant conversation and that Ellen gave no indication that anything was wrong. Later that morning, Ellen and a friend exchanged texts about the approaching storm. Yeah, you are getting out early.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Thank goodness.

[Rob]

Around 1:30pm, Ellen filled her gas tank and made her way to the apartment she shared with Sam Two hours later, Ellen texted a friend about how she couldn't seem to finish grading, possibly due to how anxious she was about giving her students failing grades. At 4:45pm Sam left the apartment to go to the gym in their complex. When he returned 30 minutes later, the swing bar lock on the door was engaged from the inside. When he couldn't enter the apartment, Sam began texting and calling Ellen, eventually resorting to pounding on the door, stirring the attention of neighbors. Eventually, Sam asked the doorman to break the lock, but he refused since it was against building policy. Around 6:10pm the doorman called Ellen multiple times through the building's phone system. When she didn't answer, he suggested Sam contact authorities. Around 6:30pm Sam forced his way into the apartment, where he found Ellen in the kitchen lying in a pool of blood, triggering him to call for help.

[Sam Goldberg]

I just walked to my apartment. Fiance's on the floor with blood everywhere.

[911 Operator]

Is this a house or apartment?

[Sam Goldberg]

Oh, no.

[911 Operator]

Oh, no.

[Sam Goldberg]

It's an apartment. Please, Harry, please.

[Rob]

See?

[Sam Goldberg]

I don't know. I can't tell you.

[911 Operator]

You have to calm yourself down in order to get you some help.

[Sam Goldberg]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. She. I don't know. I'm looking at her right now. She. I don't. I can't see anything. She didn't. There's nothing broken. She's bleeding.

[911 Operator]

Ellie, you don't know where she's bleeding from? That's coming from.

[Sam Goldberg]

It's. I think her head. I think she hit her head. I think. But it's everywhere. Okay. Everywhere.

[911 Operator]

She might have fallen. Do you know what happened?

[Sam Goldberg]

She may have slept as blood on the. On the table. Her face is a little purple.

[911 Operator]

Okay. Is she breathing? Look at her chest. I need you to calm down and I need you to look at her chest. It's really.

[Sam Goldberg]

I don't think she. I really don't think she is.

[911 Operator]

Listen to me. Someone's on the way. Look at her chest. Is she flat on her back?

[Sam Goldberg]

She's on her back.

[911 Operator]

Look at her chest and tell me if it's going up and down, up and down.

[Sam Goldberg]

I don't see her moving.

[911 Operator]

Okay. Do you know how to do cpr?

[Sam Goldberg]

I don't.

[911 Operator]

Okay. I can tell you what to do. Okay. Until they get there, I want you to keep her phone.

[Sam Goldberg]

Oh, God.

[911 Operator]

Hello?

[Sam Goldberg]

Yeah, hi. Okay.

[911 Operator]

Willing to do CPR with me over the phone so they can.

[Sam Goldberg]

I have to. Right.

[911 Operator]

Okay. To get her flat on her back, Bare her chest. Okay. You want to rip her shirt off? Okay. Take a deal. Down by her side.

[Sam Goldberg]

Oh, my God. Allie, please.

[911 Operator]

Listen, listen, you can't freak out, sir, because.

[Sam Goldberg]

Okay, I'm trying not to. Try not. Her shirt won't come off. It's a zipper. Oh, my God. She stabbed herself.

[911 Operator]

Where?

[Sam Goldberg]

She found a knife. Oh, no. Her knife's sticking out.

[911 Operator]

What?

[Sam Goldberg]

There's a knife sticking out of her heart.

[911 Operator]

Oh, she stabbed herself?

[Sam Goldberg]

I. I guess so. I don't know where she fell on it. I don't know.

[911 Operator]

Okay, well, don't touch it.

[Sam Goldberg]

Okay, so I'm. Just let her hear now. I mean, what do I do?

[911 Operator]

No, I mean, you can't. If the knife is in her chest, it's going to be kind of hard for you to do CPR at this time.

[Sam Goldberg]

Oh, no. Oh, my goodness.

[911 Operator]

Okay, okay. Someone's on the way out here. Okay, just get.

[Sam Goldberg]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Rob]

At 6:40pm Ellen was pronounced dead by first responders. Police immediately secured the scene and began their investigation. Authorities noted that a knife block was knocked over. There were two clean knives in the sink and a strainer filled with blueberries and a sliced orange was on the counter. Homicide Sergeant Tim Couney would state that everything that happened pretty much happened right where she was. The rest of the apartment was pretty unremarkable. Despite the large amount of blood, Ellen was holding a clean white towel with no evidence of a struggle or robbery. Authorities quickly determined her death to be a suicide. When Ellen's loved ones learned the news, they were in total disbelief. They couldn't understand how something like this could have happened to their only child. Although they were aware that Ellen had been struggling, they never picked up on any indications she had considered taking her own life. But when additional details eventually came out, Ellen's family began questioning police's analysis of the scene. And when the medical examiner changed his ruling on the manner of death after a closed door meeting, they couldn't help but wonder if there was more to the story that would lead to such a monumental shift.

[Maggie Freeling]

When Sam entered the apartment, he finds Ellen in the kitchen, which is close to the front door. She's wearing a zip up hoodie, sweatpants and UGG boots, he says. She's lying on the floor. But when authorities arrive, she was found sitting up kind of slumped against the cabinets. During her autopsy, the medical examiner indicates multiple wounds to Ellen's body. 20 stab wounds to her back, neck and into the base of her skull and in her chest, as well as a laceration on the back of her head. Wounds are listed as having smooth edges, but the knife in her chest, believed to be from the knife set in her kitchen, had serrated edges. Some reports state that multiple stab wounds were post mortem, including the final stab to the heart. Ellen also appeared to have no defensive wounds on her hands, but did have multiple bruises on her arms, legs, wrists, abs that were all in different stages of healing. Based on the evidence, the medical examiner originally ruled her death as a homicide. But after a closed door meeting with the Philadelphia police and the district attorney's office, it was overturned and ruled a suicide. So what happened to trigger a change in the ruling? And I just want to say right here that a medical examiner's findings should be based on the medical evidence. They should not be told outside the information. So what happened behind this closed door meeting is very shocking to me. Now, there's a lot that happened in the years after the initial investigation and the medical examiner's report, and some of them are pretty crazy. It was later revealed that between December 2010 and January 2011, Ellen's devices had searched for antidepressants and painless suicide and other suicide methods. Some people wonder if these searches were pointing to some deep internal demons Ellen had and her loved ones just were not aware. Now, I do want to add that statistically, women who do die by suicide, it's usually not by stabbing, let alone 20 times across her body. And people who die by suicide by stabbing don't usually stab themselves through their clothing. So the question becomes, based on all the evidence, does it seem possible that Ellen did in fact take her own life? So to talk about all of this, joining me is my good friend Amy Schlossberg, a criminologist at Fairleigh Dickinson University who has actually extended extensively looked into Ellen's case as part of her work as a criminologist. And we're going to talk about all of this, the suicide ruling, the changed ruling, and how one can die in this manner. So when we come back from a quick break, we'll bring you my conversation with Amy.

[Sandy Greenberg]

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[Rob]

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[Maggie Freeling]

And now here's John with this week's critical Missing case.

[John]

Today's case comes to us from namus, the National Missing and Unidentified Persons System. According to the outlet, authorities are seeking help with finding a man who disappeared from the Huntsville, Texas area on Wednesday, May 21, 2025. According to their report, 40 year old Roderick Lee Archie was last seen in person at a Huntsville area Walmart on the evening of Tuesday, May 20th. The following morning, Roderick sent a message to his family around 7:45am but since that message, his family has been unable to reach him. Roderick is described as having a height of 6 foot 1 inch and a weight of 150 pounds and he drives a white 2018 Mazda CX5. Listeners, we need your help in spreading the word about Roderick Leigh Archie. You can check out the up and Vanish weekly Instagram page avweekly to see a picture of Roderick and to share our post for more visibility. Now, listeners, if you've seen Roderick or you know information about his whereabouts, you're asked to contact the Huntsville Police Department at 936-291-5480.

[Maggie Freeling]

All right, we're back.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Amy, thank you for joining me today.

[Amy Schlossberg]

So good to be here. I always love being with you. We always have so much fun.

[Maggie Freeling]

Yay.

[Sandy Greenberg]

And I forgot to mention too, you do have two podcasts. That's actually how we know each other really from this podcast world. You do Women and crime and you also did Direct appeal about Melanie McGuire.

[Amy Schlossberg]

Two podcasts I love thank you. On our podcast Women in Crime, me and my co host Megan were both criminologists and we talk about cases in which women were the victim of a crime. Women were the offender. Sometimes those are one in the same. Every now and then we'll cover a trailblazer in the field and we like to break down the story as objectively as possible, but save time to talk about the criminological theories that could help us understand why this happened, how this happened, what can we do to prevent it, and important for us action items and you know what our listeners can do to get involved.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Let me ask you Amy, what is A criminologist.

[Maggie Freeling]

What do you do?

[Amy Schlossberg]

I feel like I've had to explain this to my family so much over the years, and nobody still gets it. So basically, a criminologist is somebody who studies the causes of crime. So I spend most of my time teaching about theories that could help us understand why people commit crime, why people are victimized, how to prevent crime, what we can do. Um, but I also do research in various areas as well. So, you know, a criminologist is someone who's scientifically studying the causes of crime. That's probably the cleanest way to say it.

[Sandy Greenberg]

So in Ellen's case, I guess, how would criminology really fit into this case?

[Amy Schlossberg]

Like, I'm attracted to cases where there's a question of whether this was a murder, a suicide, or a death by accident. You see a lot of wrongful convictions, especially no crime wrongful convictions, where something was classified incorrectly. So to me, this is one of those cases that there was a snap judgment, and I think it was tunnel vision and confirmation bias that led to a quick classification of death by suicide without actually looking at the evidence and investigating potential other theories.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Let's start, I guess, at the beginning. Like, what stands out to you about this case?

[Amy Schlossberg]

I don't know that it is physically possible that she could have done this to herself. Of course, we've heard of cases where people die by suicide in extreme ways that we just wouldn't be able to wrap our heads around. But I think in this case, I think it's physically impossible. But the problem becomes that there was never a thorough enough investigation to rule out different possibilities. It was just assumed from the beginning that she had died by suicide. They were quick to point out the fact that she was on medication for depression. They were quick to point out the fact that she had been seeing a therapist. It goes along with this narrative of, you know, the hysterical woman, she must have done this to herself.

[Sandy Greenberg]

How common is that? How often do you see this kind of sexism, misogyny, whatever, in terms of profiling women?

[Amy Schlossberg]

Unfortunately, we see it a lot. There's a few different ways that women are stereotyped. So in Melanie McGuire case, you'll see she was a woman who was having an affair. She was an attractive woman, and that was being used against her when she was being tried for her husband's murder. Rebecca Zahao is another case where a woman, they look at a woman's history and they're quick to say that, oh, she's depressed because of a breakup, or she's Struggling, she's having some mental health issues. So she must have done this to herself. So there's, it's almost like a blaming the victim. This had to have been her. She was on medication, she was seeing a therapist. So this must have been something self inflicted. And I don't think that's fair because I think Ellen was doing everything right to try to take care of her mental health. She was, you know, she was experiencing a lot of stress at work, possibly at home, but she was speaking to someone and she was on medication and she was doing everything to get the situation under control. And I just don't think it's fair for us to say that her mental health had anything to do with this.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Absolutely. Thank you for pointing that out.

[Amy Schlossberg]

And I think the problem with this case is the evidence doesn't clearly show that one person did it. So if you're going to look at all the potential options of what happened to this young woman, I just think death by suicide would be the least likely option.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Why is that?

[Amy Schlossberg]

Self inflicted stab wounds are one of the most uncommon forms of suicide and only account for about 3% of all suicides. And when a knife is used for self harm, the abdomen is the site of injury in almost 30% of cases. Again, we know there's always outliers, so we can't only rely on the statistics to lead us to what happened here. But it's important to recognize that it's very rare for this to happen. In fact, I've only heard of maybe one or two other cases and it was only a single stab wound and it was often in the front of the neck, not in the back of the neck.

[Sandy Greenberg]

I have thought about this so many times. Right. Like she had pills, she had medication. That is a significantly more painless, classic way to die by suicide. Why would someone stab themselves in the back of the neck?

[Amy Schlossberg]

And is that even physically possible? And that's the problem with this investigation. They never, as far as I know, they never looked at how long her arms were. And if she could have physically even done that with looking at how long the knife was and how deep the.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Punctures were, I just again can't imagine like overcoming that and continuing to attempt to stab yourself.

[Maggie Freeling]

Right.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Like that pain could like just startle you awake and be like, oh my gosh, wait, I, that is so painful. What am I doing? I just keep thinking about that, like the commitment to stab yourself that many times.

[Amy Schlossberg]

Yeah. You know she was stabbed in the heart as well.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Yeah, that, that is what I find very Difficult to make sense of. So there are some circumstantial things, Right, that led them to rule this a suicide. What do you make of the Google searches that she made about suicide and her medications?

[Amy Schlossberg]

So the Google searches, for one, we can never know who did those searches. We don't know who else had access to that computer. So we don't know that it was actually Ellen behind the computer making those searches. Now, if we're going to talk about the Google searches, it's important to point out that she was also googling ways to die that were quick and painless, which is the opposite of the way in which she died. So is it possible that she did want to self harm? Yes, of course that's possible. But I also think it's possible somebody else harmed her. So both could have been going on at the same time. Just because maybe she was having these feelings, even if she was the one googling, that doesn't mean that she necessarily took it to that point. She was making a fruit salad. Some people focus on the fact that somebody who plans to die by suicide wouldn't be making a fruit salad. I don't necessarily agree with that. Um, you know, we can't really understand what people do and why they do it when they're in state of such distress. Um, but I did want to point that out because a lot of people will say she filled up her car, she did this, she did that. There's, you know, I don't think that that's where the weight is. I think the weight is more so looking at the physical evidence and the wounds. You know, if you look at the number of stab wounds she had, you would think that the earlier stab wounds maybe would have paralyzed her or at least incapacitated her to the point where she couldn't keep continuing, you know, to stab herself.

[Sandy Greenberg]

So I guess let's talk about the door being locked and bolted from the inside. That was kind of a big factor for investigators to say this was possibly a suicide, because how could someone have gotten in? The door wasn't broken in. What do you make of that?

[Amy Schlossberg]

Her fiance said that the door was latched. There was a neighbor who came out and her fiance said, yes, the door was latched. I saw him trying to push it in. But nobody actually saw the latch door. I don't believe that this eyewitness ever saw it. He just saw Sam trying to get in. Um, so it's possible that, number one, the door was not latched. It's also possible it was latched and he was Able to open it. Um, there's a lot of possibilities as far as, did he break the door down? There's a lot of discrepancy there as well. There wasn't a lot of damage done to that lock bar where if he did break the door down, I believe there was just. If you saw the crime scene photos, it looks like it was just loosened a little. But if someone's gonna break down a door, you would expect it to be, like, coming off of the screws. So, you know, the latch is a very interesting point, because without the door being latched shut, that changes everything. There was no blood outside of the kitchen, and there was no signs of a struggle, and there were no defensive wounds. You know, this could indicate to some that this was more likely a death by suicide. But I think it's possible that this was a blitz attack. I think it's possible that somebody attacked her from behind, maybe when she was at the sink washing the fruit.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Let's talk a little bit about Sam. You know, his alibi in terms of his fob was checked. He left when he said he did, came back when he said he did.

[Maggie Freeling]

Um, what do you make of him?

[Amy Schlossberg]

Listen, he is, you know, right now, he's innocent until proven guilty. Right? So I'm not gonna point my fingers at Sam and say he did this, but some things just don't line up. Um, he did seem to be at the gym quick. It was kind of. He wasn't there very long. But without knowing his pattern of behaviors, we can't really put any stock in that. Right. So unless we know what he usually did, that he usually go to the gym for such a short period of time, Some people say he was wearing boots and not sneakers, and they thought that was shady. But again, if we're going to profile this guy, it's important to know if he's just someone who wore boots to the gym, then, like, this is within his normal behavior, and then there's nothing to it.

[Sandy Greenberg]

So one of the things that Sam furr said is that he thought she fell on the knife. Have you ever seen that?

[Amy Schlossberg]

Like, to even suggest she fell on the knife. Makes no sense. I guess his initial, you know, initially, when he walked in and he, you know, he saw the knife. Actually, it took him a little while to even see the knife with. Some people fault him, and I don't fault his 911 call. A lot of people were scrutinizing that. I don't like to. You know, I said before, I don't like to judge people's. Affects, especially after you just come across a loved one who is deceased. I don't know a world in which someone just falls on a knife like that. Obviously once you see the other stab wounds, it's not possible anyway. But yeah, that seems. It might just be something he said in a moment of panic.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Right? It kind of seems like that to me. Like, there is a knife. He has no freaking idea how it got there. So he's like, I don't know. An accident? Did she fall? Like, I don't know.

[Amy Schlossberg]

There's just so many questions. When we covered this case for the podcast and when I talk about this case, it's important for me not to act as if I know any of this is fact. Because it's hard, as you know, when you're doing this kind of work, it's hard to know what is fact and what is not. Even when you have a credible source, sometimes the facts, so to speak, are not factual.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Right? Absolutely. Like you said, like, you know, we hear that the door was broken in, and then when you see the crime.

[Amy Schlossberg]

Scene photos, we just can't definitively say, do things seem a little shady? Yes. But was there any indication that they were having trouble in their relationship? Did he have a motive? Some people say yes. Some people say Ellen was unhappy and just kept it to herself. She was talking to family members about potentially moving in with them. Um, even though they had this wedding coming up. Maybe she was having second thoughts. Was he abusive? The problem is, it's just. We just don't know.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Well, let's talk about that for a second. Because there were bruises on her that seemed to have been he in different stages of healing. Right. Indicating she had been injured before this. Do you know exactly where some of those bruises were?

[Amy Schlossberg]

You can see it on the autopsy. It seems to be all over her body. There were some reports that she does yoga and maybe had bruises from that. That makes no sense to me. But as someone who's clumsy, I have bruises on me all the time. Also in varying stages, same. So I don't know. It's hard because there's not enough evidence to say either way what happened here. So that's why this case, I think is so interesting. Cause while I wanna say I don't think she did this to herself, I also don't feel comfortable saying that Sam did this.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Right.

[Maggie Freeling]

Be back after a short break. It's time to turn your daydream into your dream job. WIX gives you the power to turn your passion into a money maker with a website that fits your unique vision and drives you towards your goals. Let your ideas flow with AI tools that guide you but give you full control and flexibility. Manage your business from one dashboard and keep it growing with built in marketing features. Get everything you need to turn your part time passion into a full time business. Go to wix.com.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Do you want to sneak past the crime scene tape to explore the key evidence behind some of the most gripping true crime cases? I'm Morgan Abshur. And I'm Caitlin Moore and we'd love for you to check out our new show Clues. Each Wednesday I piece together the timelines and break down the hard facts, digging.

[Amy Schlossberg]

Into forensic details, investigative techniques and everything.

[Sandy Greenberg]

That led to justice or didn't. And while Kin dives into the facts, I'm pulling out the threads, digging through the Internet theories and looking at the details that may or may not add up.

[Amy Schlossberg]

From serial killers to shocking cold cases, we shine a light on the stories that have been waiting, sometimes for decades, to finally be heard.

[Sandy Greenberg]

So join us as we uncover the breakthroughs, the heartbreak and the relentless pain pursuit of answers behind the world's most unforgettable investigations.

[Amy Schlossberg]

Come open a case file with us every Wednesday and listen to clues wherever you get your podcasts.

[John]

Hey listeners, if you have a tip or theories about a case you want to share or a case of interest you'd like to recommend to us, then we want to hear from you. Email us casesenderfoot tv DM us on Instagram UAVWeekly or give us a call at 770-545-6411. You can also join the conversation on our Discord at Discord GG upandvanished. Now back to the show.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Well, let's talk about a third party. Right? So you mentioned a blitz attack.

[Maggie Freeling]

What is a blitz attack?

[Amy Schlossberg]

So that would be an attack in which you wouldn't see defensive wounds on the victim because they don't have a chance to fight back. So let's say she was at the sink washing fruit and someone came up behind her and stabbed her in the neck. So a blitz attack is when somebody's not prepared.

[Sandy Greenberg]

And she didn't have defensive wounds, but.

[Amy Schlossberg]

It'S possible that somebody incapacitated her in a blitz attack. They took her by surprise enough so that she couldn't fight back that they were able. But it just also seems like such overkill. Like this isn't the kind of crime scene that it's, you know, it's not a home invasion. Nothing was missing. There was no way for someone to get in the timeline. There was such a small timeline that there's no way that somebody else could have done this to her unless potentially Sam had hired someone to do this to her. But this does not look like the scene of a crime for. Of a hitman or somebody who's being, you know, paid to murder someone.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Well, and didn't they check surveillance footage, too? And there was no one unknown coming in and out of the building?

[Amy Schlossberg]

Yeah. And there was a balcony, and it had. There was fresh snow. So it's not possible that somebody came in and out through the balcony. So I don't think there's any possibility that there could have been a third party.

[Sandy Greenberg]

So where do we go from here? Is someone looking into this right now? Is the Attorney General's office going to reopen it?

[Amy Schlossberg]

That's a good question. It kind of seems that there are questions surrounding her cause of death. The family fought a lot to try to get the manner of death changed. In 2021, the court actually ruled in favor of Ellen Greenberg's family, and they said that the Philadelphia Medical Examiner's Office had to amend the official cause of death from suicide to undetermined. So that's kind of where it lies now, is that it's undetermined. And the reason why that's important is. Is because that allows for the case to be reopened. So when the cause of death is not definitively listed as suicide, obviously that's symbolic, and it's emotional. It's an emotional victory for the family. But now there could be pressure for continued investigation, and her death is still under scrutiny. So the pressure for further investigation. I just don't know what type of further investigation. And then we have to, you know, look at Sam. Sam's life has been ruined because he's been under scrutiny. So is it. You know, you and I both do work in the innocence space, so that's why it's so important that we're not gonna say, you know, Sam did this. But at the same time, I don't think it's fair to Ellen, and I don't think there's justice for the family to just say that we have this figured out and this was a death by suicide.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Absolutely. I think. You know, I was thinking about that, too. I think I am quite appreciative that Sam was not arrested just based on the circumstances of the case. And that certainly might be frustrating for some people. But when we talk about innocence work, I. I commend the police for not just arresting and charging this man based on circumstances.

[Amy Schlossberg]

Correct. Yeah, because that he would be the obvious person. Yeah, always the person who's, you know, the domestic partner. Um, and he was the first person on the scene. He found her body. So there's many cases that we have seen where Sam would be in handcuffs and thrown in prison. So.

[Maggie Freeling]

Yes, absolutely.

[Amy Schlossberg]

So, yeah, this is one of those cases where we have to commend the police for not having, you know, tunnel vision and saying it was Sam, but at the same time, they still had tunnel vision and just kind of threw this on Ellen.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Yeah. And again, it's high profile. I mean, this was coming up during the presidential election, so this is a high profile case. Everyone should be paying attention to what happens.

[Amy Schlossberg]

I'm keeping my eye on it because I'm curious, you know, where it's going to go. I don't think this is the last we're hearing about this case.

[Maggie Freeling]

Thank you.

[Sandy Greenberg]

Where can the people find you if they want to find you?

[Amy Schlossberg]

Oh, women in crime podcasts. We are on all the socials and, you know, Spotify, Apple or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

[Maggie Freeling]

I truly don't know how 20 stab wounds, some of which are post mortem, can be ruled a suicide, but I suppose anything is possible. Ellen's parents have fought for years to get that ruling changed in order to reopen Ellen's case and pursue it as a homicide. Last year, Ellen's father, Joshua, told CBS Philadelphia, they have blatantly said that the.

[Rob]

Investigation is faulty on the part of.

[Amy Schlossberg]

The police, on the part of the medical examiner, and on the part of the district attorney. We don't believe our daughter committed suicide.

[Rob]

What happened? The stroke of a pen.

[Amy Schlossberg]

We could be finding out what really happened with her daughter. We could be finding out what's called the truth.

[Maggie Freeling]

Ellen's family cannot comprehend why it has taken so long to properly investigate their daughter's death. The Greenberg family attorney, Joseph Podraza, told CBS Philly he believes something nefarious. Nefarious is at play.

[Rob]

There are clearly reasons why agencies don't.

[Amy Schlossberg]

Want us to get deeper into this case.

[Rob]

This is clearly a murder and it.

[Sam Goldberg]

Should be investigated as such.

[Amy Schlossberg]

Do you believe someone is obstructing this investigation? I.

[Rob]

There's something going on here.

[Maggie Freeling]

Ellen's case has bounced around different agencies, from the Philadelphia District Attorney to the state Attorney general's office to Josh Shapiro, the state Attorney General. In fact, Josh Shapiro was a potential vice presidential pick for Kamala in the 2024 election. Earlier this year, the original medical examiner says he no longer believes Ellen's death was a suicide. He cited new information drawing into question what exactly happened when Sam allegedly found Ellen in the kitchen. However, he doesn't have the power to change Ellen's death certificate to homicide in order to reopen the investigation. Ellen's family is still fighting to do that and are fighting to have federal authorities take over the investigation into Ellen's case. Y' all, thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of up and Vanish Weekly. Be sure to tune in next week as we dig into another new case. Until next time.

[Payne Lindsay]

Up and Vanish Weekly is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your hosts are Maggie Freeling and myself, Payne Lindsay. The show is written by Maggie Freeling, myself and John Street. Executive producers are Donald Albright and myself. Lead producer is John Street. Additional production by Meredith Steadman and Mike Rooney. Research for the series by Jamie Albright, Celicia Stanton and Carolyn Tallmadge. Edit and mix by Dylan Harrington and Sean Nurney. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Artwork by Byron McCoy. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Special thanks to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at uta, Beck Media and Marketing and the Nord Group. For more podcasts like up and Vanish Weekly, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us on at Tenderfoot tv. Thanks for listening.