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- [00:02]
Maggie Freeling
You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast.
- [00:08]
Payne Lindsay
This is the way it feels to move through summer in Lululemon iconic aligned softness. Without the front seam for our smoothest look and feel ever, Summer won't know what hit it. Stretch your limits in the non stop flexibility of the new Lululemon Align. No line pant in select and@lululemon.com.
- [00:37]
Morgan Abshur
Do you want to sneak past the crime scene tape to explore the key evidence behind some of the most gripping true crime cases? I'm Morgan Abshur.
- [00:44]
Kaylan Moore
And I'm Kaylan Moore and we'd love.
- [00:45]
Morgan Abshur
For you to check out our new show, Clues.
- [00:47]
Kaylan Moore
Each Wednesday I piece together the timelines and break down the hard facts, digging into forensic details, investigative techniques and everything that led to justice or didn't.
- [00:57]
Morgan Abshur
And while Kaelyn dives into the facts, I'm pulling out the threads, digging through the Internet theories and looking at the details that may or may not add up.
- [01:05]
Kaylan Moore
From serial killers to shocking cold cases, we shine a light on the stories that have been waiting, sometimes for decades, to finally be heard.
- [01:12]
Morgan Abshur
So join us as we uncover the breakthroughs, the heartbreak and the relentless pursuit of answers behind the world's most unforgettable investigations.
- [01:20]
Kaylan Moore
Come open a case file with us every Wednesday and listen to Clues wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:27]
Payne Lindsay
Foreign.
- [01:34]
Elizabeth Greenwood
Vanish Weekly is released every Wednesday and brought to you absolutely free, but for one week early access and ad free listening. Subscribe to Tenderfoot plus at tenderfootplus.com or on Apple Podcasts if you're already a subscriber. Thank you for your support.
- [01:53]
Maggie Freeling
This podcast discusses mature and sensitive content, including descriptions of violence that may be triggering for some audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Hey all. Welcome to up and Vanish Weekly. I'm Maggie Freeling. Today we're talking about Brian Randall Schaeffer, a young man who literally walked into a bar and was never seen again. I actually looked into this case in 2022 for a project and I went to Columbus, Ohio to do some old fashioned boots on the ground reporting with my friend Captain from True Crime Garage and we went to the bar Brian disappeared from, the Ugly Tuna Saluna. And we spoke to many people involved in this case, including law enforcement, who you will hear from later. Brian's case has had a ton of coverage. There's an endless amount of speculation and rumor about Brian's life and disappearance and I'm not going to get into all of that nitty gritty rumors and gossip and instead just really stick to what Captain and I were able to clarify in our own investigation. Later, I'll be joined by Elizabeth Greenwood. And I've known Elizabeth for nearly a decade now. I first interviewed her about a missing person in 2017 after she released her book playing A Journey through the World of Death Fraud. Some have theorized that Brian's disappearance was voluntary, that he decided to walk away from everything he knew to start a new life. The question is, would something like that even be possible? Elizabeth's research into questions like this is fascinating. She even worked with underground agents to fake her own death to see just how difficult the process is. So I'm excited for y' all to hear our conversation. But first, let's understand the basic circumstances around Brian's disappearance.
- [04:17]
Rob
Monday, April 3, 2006 Alexis Wagoner settles into his seat at the airport gate. Anticipating the trip of a lifetime. Alexis is going on vacation with her boyfriend Brian Shafer. The two are headed to Miami, where Alexis suspects 27 year old Brian will propose. Alexis has butterflies, imagining the time they'll have together, splashing in the crystal clear water while laying on the white sands with umbrella drinks. As music rumbles in the background, Alexis feels lucky. She knows Brian is a catch. Tall, dark and handsome. A second year medical student. Like her, Alexis imagines a picture perfect life with him. And this trip is just the beginning. But as time passes, those excited butterflies soon turn to worry. As the gate attendant begins the boarding process, Alexis, still sitting alone, begins to grow anxious. She soothes her worried mind, thinking that any second Brian will be coming around the corner and everything will be okay. And so she waits. Before long, the plane is fully boarded and there's still no word from Brian. Alexis begins to wonder, did he get cold feet? Was there an accident? In the coming hours, Alexis would receive some unexpected news that would change her life forever. Brian Schaefer disappeared from the Ohio State.
- [05:52]
Payne Lindsay
Campus without any Columbus bar on North High Street.
- [05:55]
Maggie Freeling
He was seen going up just disappear.
- [05:58]
Rob
Was Brian Schaefer killed or did he run away? From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is up and Vanish weekly with Payne Lindsay and Maggie Freeling.
- [06:36]
Maggie Freeling
Brian Schaeffer has been described as being free spirited, outgoing and a jokester. At the time of his disappearance, Brian wanted to be a musician. He played guitar and his favorite band was Pearl Jamie. In fact, he had a stickman tattoo on his arm. Stickman is like one of the Pearl Jam logos. It was on one of their album covers. Brian was also smart and he knew pursuing music was maybe a pipe dream. So he went to med school as a backup. Brian had a bachelor's in microbiology from Ohio State University in Columbus, Ohio, where he was also pursuing his med degree. Brian was super close with his whole family, his brother Dylan and his dad Randy, but especially his mom Renee. Renee was a nurse and she is the one who inspired Brian to go into the medical field. But Renee was diagnosed with a rare type of cancer, myelodysplasia, and died in March of 2006. Just before Brian's disappearance, he wore a yellow cancer awareness rubber bracelet for her. His trip to Miami with Alexis was Renee's last Christmas gift to her son. It was a trip Brian just wouldn't miss. He was known to love tropical locations and although he loved Pearl Jam, a rock band, he was said to actually want to start a band in the vein of Jimmy Buffett. Now, many people have speculated on Alexis and Brian's relationship. It's not clear exactly how long they had been dating and I was never able to confirm if they were actually getting engaged. I never confirmed if Brian had a ring for Alexis either. Former lead detective on the case, John Hurst told me and captain they never found an indication a ring was bought through bank records. Though it's possible Brian wasn't traditional and didn't firing. Either way, there's been a lot of speculation about how serious their relationship was and whether that played a factor into Brian's disappearance. Some think if they weren't that serious, if they had only been together a couple months, it's very possible he just ditched the trip. But the truth is there's a lot we don't know about Brian's disappearance and we may never know if it was planned ahead of time, just an accident or something more nefarious. But we do know some of the details about Brian's activities in the days before he vanished. Here's Rob with what authorities have documented.
- [09:27]
Rob
On Friday, March 31, 2006, Bryant made plans to go out and celebrate his last week of classes before spring break. Before the real partying started, Brian went to dinner at a steakhouse with his father Randy. During dinner, Randy noticed that Brian seemed exhausted from pulling all nighters while studying for med school exams. Plus he was still reeling from the death of his mother who had succumbed to her cancer just weeks earlier. It had been a rough couple of weeks, but but Brian was ready to put it all behind him for a night. Let loose and celebrate. At 9pm Brian met his best friend and former roommate Clint Florence at the Ugly Tuna Saloona, a popular college bar in town known for its iconic fish shanty decor and shot special menu. While out With Clint, Brian called Alexis to check in about their upcoming trip. That Monday. Everything was in order and their vacation plan was in action. After the Ugly Tuna, Brian and Clint decided to bar hop around town before meeting up with some friends who eventually gave them a ride back to the Ugly Tuna where they spent the rest of the night. But as the bar was shutting down and tabs were closing out, Clint couldn't find Brian. He searched for him around the bar, in the bathrooms, and even called Brian repeatedly. Nothing. Clint thought maybe Brian was so drunk, he decided to walk the few blocks back home with no sign of Brian. He eventually gave up the search and had to call it a night. The next day, Saturday, April 1st, Brian was still not answering his phone and was nowhere to be found. But as the surge entered its second day, his loved ones would discover that this was not an April Fool's Day joke. Brian Schaefer had walked into a bar, never to be seen again.
- [11:39]
Maggie Freeling
After Brian misses his Monday morning flight over two days since he was last seen at the Ugly Tuna, Alexis calls Brian's dad, Randy, and tells him Brian missed his flight. Randy then called police. While looking into this case, Captain and myself were actually able to interview the formerly detective John Hurst. Here's what he told us about the first days Brian went missing.
- [12:08]
John Hurst
Yeah, initially your thought is this guy, he's going to turn up. He was out drinking with his friends and he's just got laid up somewhere and he'll pop up here, you know, in a day or two. Well, that didn't happen.
- [12:24]
Maggie Freeling
We'll be right back after a quick break.
- [12:30]
Morgan Abshur
Do you want to sneak past the crime scene tape to explore the key evidence behind some of the most gripping true crime cases? I'm Morgan Absher.
- [12:36]
Kaylan Moore
And I'm Kaylan Moore.
- [12:37]
Morgan Abshur
And we'd love for you to check out our new show, Click Clues.
- [12:40]
Kaylan Moore
Each Wednesday, I piece together the timelines and break down the hard facts, digging into forensic details, investigative techniques, and everything that led to justice or didn't.
- [12:49]
Morgan Abshur
And while Caitlin dives into the facts, I'm pulling at the threads, digging through the Internet theories and looking at the details that may or may not add up.
- [12:57]
Kaylan Moore
From serial killers to shocking cold cases, we shine a light on the stories that have been waiting, sometimes for decades, to finally be heard.
- [13:05]
Morgan Abshur
So join us as we uncover the breakthroughs, the heartbreak, and the relentless pursuit of answers behind the world's most unforgettable investigations.
- [13:13]
Kaylan Moore
Come open a case file with us every Wednesday and listen to clues wherever you get your podcasts.
- [13:28]
Maggie Freeling
And we're back. Brian's house showed nothing unusual and his car was still there. So then law enforcement went to the last place Brian was seen, the Ugly Tuna Saloona. Now the Ugly Tuna is not there anymore. There's another restaurant, but we went there to the same location, and it's located inside a complex, kind of like a mall. You walk in, you go up a set of escalators, and the entrance to where the Ugly Tuna was is immediately to your right. Outside the bar at the top of the escalators are surveillance cameras. And from those cameras surveilling the escalator and the entrance to the bar, they were able to retrieve some footage. The cameras show Brian, Clint and their friend Meredith riding up the escalator and going into the ugly tuna around 1am Just before 2am Brian is seen on camera speaking to two women. It seems friendly. He seems to say goodbye and then he turns and walks out of frame. The camera did not record Brian again, when the bar is closing and everyone leaves. And since Brian was not seen leaving the bar, some wondered if something happened to him inside the bar, like someone died, did something to him and smuggled his body out. I've heard many theories, like a keg or the band's instrument cases. Captain and I personally spoke to the band. We don't have that recording anymore. This was a while ago, but here's us talking to Hearst about that interaction. And they were laughing hysterically because they said there would have been no way to even do that in this particular bar.
- [15:16]
John Hurst
I mean, anything's possible. Through our investigation, nothing came to light that anything occurred in there and it would be difficult. I mean, it's basically it was a big open room, had a bar in the middle and a kitchen off to the side. We had dogs come in and cadaver dogs, and they would have picked up on blood if there had been any blood in there. We had them go through the entire building. We actually went up on the roof, make sure he wasn't up there, searched on all the corners in that area and remove plates, cover plates, just to see if maybe somebody might have stuffed him in there. But when we were done, the building was clean. There wasn't anybody in there.
- [16:00]
Maggie Freeling
Early on, police thought Brian was just away grieving his mother's death in private. But when he didn't return, they moved on from that theory. Others have wondered if Brian was hiding something in his life, perhaps like his sexuality. They think maybe he took off to live his authentic life. This is where a lot of people speculate about his relationship with Alexis. How long Were they actually together? How serious were they actually? But how would Brian get out if he wasn't on camera? Investigators thought perhaps he left in disguise. Here's Detective Hearst again.
- [16:41]
John Hurst
One of my detectives, Andre Edwards. He took all the discs. We duplicated them. He took some home. He had a projector. He put his computer on it, made it lifelike on the wall. And he sat there and went through every frame, tracked everybody coming in, tracked every. I mean, this was a daunting task for him. You know, it took a lot of time, but we were able to track everybody in and out except for Brian.
- [17:10]
Maggie Freeling
But he could have gone a different way. Many people think the main entrance to the mall and escalator are the only options out of the Ugly Tuna. However, there is another way out of the mall besides the escalator. When you get to the top of the escalator, if you look to the right, is the Ugly Tuna. But directly ahead, so close to where Brian was standing and the camera lost him, there is an emergency exit. There was no cameras looking at that area.
- [17:44]
John Hurst
Well, there was, but those cameras actually were the panning. It's a possibility that they had panned away, away from where he had exited the. The other cameras.
- [17:59]
Maggie Freeling
It's possible the cameras were panning away at the exact same time and Brian exited that way. If Brian did leave that way, it would have led directly to a construction site. And many people think Brian may have been drunk and fallen into a construction pit and been buried with concrete.
- [18:23]
John Hurst
There was no fresh cement poured anywhere that would indicate that that would have been the case.
- [18:30]
Maggie Freeling
How likely do you think it was that he left and something happened to him on the streets?
- [18:35]
John Hurst
Well, I would say that's pretty likely that he got out of there.
- [18:42]
Maggie Freeling
Some think if Brian made it out, he was met with foul play. At the time, the neighborhood was not the trendy college area it is now. It was dangerous. It wasn't as populated. Perhaps an accident or an opportunist got Brian. Some have floated the smiley face killer theory. This is a theoretical serial killer who preys on college age intoxicated men, usually in the Midwest. But the FBI refuted this theory in 2008. A $25,000 reward was put up for anyone with information leading to Brian. Law enforcement surged high and low, knocking on doors, checking dumpsters, checking landfills, rivers, and even nearby sewer lines. Canines and the FBI have been extensively involved. Yet still, they have never found Brian. But they did get a few leads. Here's Rob with more.
- [19:50]
Rob
In the wake of Brian's disappearance, Alexis was heartbroken. She made a habit of calling Brian's phone every night before bed in hopes of reaching him. Every night it went to voicemail. But on one occasion, the phone rang. After months of closed doors, Alexis and Randy finally had a flash of hope. Was Brian alive? The cell network narrowed the ping to a cell tower 14 miles northwest of Columbus. But as they looked into this potential break, curious what it may mean. The cell network ultimately said it was just a glitch and nothing ever came of the brake pink. Over the next two years, the search for Brian maintained momentum all along. Randy was slowly deteriorating. The back to back loss of both his wife and Brian was too much. Reports at the time describe a relentless father obsessed with finding his son. But Randy would never get the answers he sought. Not because the search for Brian was called off, but because Randy died in a freak accident. In 2008, when Randy's obituary was posted online, people left well wishes. And one comment listed from the US Virgin Islands caught the eye of authorities. Dad, I love you. Love Brian. Wondering what this could mean, law enforcement traced the comment to a computer in the Columbus area. After their investigation, they concluded it was simply a cruel hoax. And they were no closer to having answers about Brian. Since Randy's death, the investigation into Brian's disappearance has continued. In 2010, Brian's favorite band, Pearl Jam, played in Ohio. During the concert, Eddie Vedder dedicated the song Come Back to Brian's memory. He asked the audience to provide tips to law enforcement. They tracked down leads in Michigan, Texas and even Sweden. But none have brought them closer to finding Brian Shaffer in recent years. Law enforcement released an age progressed photo of what Brian might look like at age 42. Fifteen years after his disappearance, they continue to hold out hope that one day a tip will help break the case. Until then, Alexis and those close to Brian are left wondering what may have happened that night at the Ugly Tuna that would cause 27 year old Brian to vanish without a trace.
- [22:42]
Maggie Freeling
It's been almost 20 years since Brian vanished from the Ugly Tuna saloona. And the question that still lingers is where did Brian go? Is it even plausible he devised a plan to leave his life behind and start fresh somewhere else? If so, what would it take to pull off something like that? Elizabeth Greenwood has looked into this concept extensively. When we come back, we'll bring you my conversation with Liz. And now, here's John with this week's critical missing case.
- [23:20]
Elizabeth Greenwood
Today's case comes to us from namus. Authorities are seeking help with finding a woman who disappeared from the Athens, Tennessee area on Thursday, June 5, 2025. According to the outlet, 37 year old Alicia Rogers had been staying at a Day's Inn but checked out of the hotel Thursday the 5th. She was later seen at a laundromat around 10pm and it's believed she sent a text message around 12:20am but she's not been seen or heard from since. Alicia is described as being between 5 foot 5 inches and 5 foot 6 inches tall with a weight of 135 to 140 pounds. She has strawberry blonde hair with blue streaks as well as brown eyes. She has a three quarter sleeve of tattoos on her right arm and a tattoo that reads through every storm on her left arm. She was last seen wearing a green button up shirt and blue jeans. Alicia drives a white 2018 Toyota Tacoma pickup with Tennessee tag 4005 Lima Tango. And it has a ladder rack on the roof and stickers all over the windows. So listeners, we need your help in spreading the word about Alicia Rogers. You could check out the up and Vanished weekly Instagram page avweekly. You can see a picture of Alicia and share our posts for more visibility. And lastly, if you've seen Alicia, you're asked to contact the Athens Police Department at 423-744-2730.
- [24:49]
Maggie Freeling
All right, we're back. Liz, thanks so much for joining me today to talk about Brian's case, your book Playing Dead and your journey into the world of death fraud. So to start, I have to ask, what triggered you looking into the strange concept of death fraud?
- [25:09]
Payne Lindsay
Oh, gosh. So I started thinking about death fraud in around the year 2010. I had just gone back to graduate school and taken out a lot of student loans. You know, I already had student loan debt from undergrad and I was just feeling like hopeless, like, how am I ever gonna pay a this monstrous amount of money back? And I was just sitting around with a friend one night having dinner, goofing around and I said, I think I've just got to find, you know, a nice country with no extradition policy and disappear. And he very offhandedly said, oh, or you could fake your own death. And I was just so taken with that idea and I went home and googled it and you know, lo and behold, there is this whole kind of world and cast of characters and ideas about how to do it and conspiracy theories around celebrities who may or may not have done it. And I became obsessed.
- [26:04]
Maggie Freeling
When you decided to look into this, write your book, where did you start?
- [26:10]
Payne Lindsay
Where did I start? I think One of the first places I started was with a man I write about in the book, a fellow named Frank Ahern, who at that time had developed a kind of expertise in helping people disappear, like private clients he was taking on as a kind of disappearance concierge. And he came to that skill set because he had previously worked the other side of it as a skip tracer, which is basically an unlicensed PI. They use different, you know, forms of deception to find people out, smoke em out wherever they are.
- [26:44]
Maggie Freeling
It's like a bounty hunter.
- [26:45]
Payne Lindsay
Yeah, yeah, yeah, more or less, you know, at that time. This feels like so quaint now, but you know, he used the phone as his kind of weapon of choice and he would call people up, you know, pretend to be like, you know, electric company or something and get people's personal information that way. So this was very like proto kind of fishing for information. It's very low tech compared to what we see today.
- [27:13]
Maggie Freeling
Yeah, you spoke to Frank a minute ago at this point.
- [27:17]
Payne Lindsay
It's been a long time and I feel like, you know, some of what I. My information is definitely dated at this point, but I think the kind of concepts and theories behind it are evergreen. So I think the methodology might be a little bit different today. But yes, this book came out in 2016.
- [27:35]
Maggie Freeling
I guess the takeaway is it was difficult 10 years ago, it's probably even more difficult now and we're going to get to that.
- [27:41]
Payne Lindsay
Yeah.
- [27:42]
Maggie Freeling
So you found you, you know, and looking you, you specifically thought about who the kinds of people are who disappear themselves. So what did you find? Who were those kinds of people in terms of disappearance?
- [27:54]
Payne Lindsay
And again, I think it's important to make a distinction here between disappearance and fake death. So disappearance is you just, you know, go out to the store one day and never come back and no one knows what has happened to you. Um, disappearance is very open ended. There are a lot of questions. This person could still be out there, was willing by choice, were they kidnapped, et cetera. Fake death, on the other hand, superimposes a narrative onto what happened to you. Meaning that this is the kind of thing where someone will stage a drowning and make it look like they went, you know, snorkeling and never returned, therefore suggesting that their body is somewhere at the bottom of the ocean and then they'll make their escape elsewhere. So the difference is fake death has a very kind of hard and fast narrative to it. Um, this is what we want people to think. We want people to think I am dead. Whereas disappearance is more open ended. So to your question of who are the types of people who go missing? I mean, look, as we know, people go missing for all different reasons when it comes to faked death. People who really wanted to, you know, advance the idea that they are no longer here. Those are people who were often outrunning some kind of, you know, unsavory consequence, whether that was prison time or they were on the run for some reason, or they could be trying to profit from their death in the form of an insurance payout, you know, where you have to have a co conspirator in that case, obviously somebody who's going to collect on your behalf. So it's people who felt, in my experience of interviewing people, people who felt like there was a lot to lose or a lot to gain are the people who fake their deaths. And these are really, you know, follow like a very kind of cookie cutter outline of a certain type of person. Often a white, straight, middle aged man, often with a family, often who had made some shady business dealings, gotten in some hot water of some kind and was looking for a way out.
- [30:10]
Maggie Freeling
What do we know about the success rate of people who fake their death or disappear themselves?
- [30:16]
Payne Lindsay
The irony of course is that it's really hard to know. We only know about the people who fail either because they were caught or because they decided to give themselves up. Which actually happens a lot more than you would expect. You'd think, okay, if you're going to go through the work of faking your death, you would really like stay. God, people, people come back like half the time, I would say. So we only know about those cases. People who do it successfully are just presumed dead or, you know, they're never heard from again. They're disappeared. We don't know, we never see them again. So I mean, look, from my very unscientific sample set, you know, I've had a Google alert on fake death on my Gmail, Yeah, since what, 2010. So like 15 years now. And I will tell you, I get a couple a week about someone who's faked their death and been caught.
- [31:08]
Maggie Freeling
Right. Of course, if someone did it successfully, we wouldn't know. So we just know about the people who got caught. So to not get caught, what are some of the steps that you have to take? Like what are some of the things Frank does? When you went to him, what did you learn?
- [31:24]
Payne Lindsay
It's so complicated. It's really, it, it feels especially, gosh, in this day and age, it feels over, almost impossible. Some of this information also comes from private investigators who subcontract for life insurance companies who, you know, they're the guys who get on the plane and go fly out to wherever, do real Indiana Jones stuff to catch people who are committing fraud with big ticket dollar signs attached to it. Anyway, so this is where that information comes from. There's many, many things you have to think about. So if you're going to fake your death, like, how is this going to be believable if you're doing it for life insurance fraud purposes? You know, if you're claiming a policy and there is no body to speak of, that's seven years you have to wait to collect on that policy. So, you know, how do you procure a body, which some people do, or how do you, you know, what's your plan in those intervening seven years? What is the accident that's going to make sense, that's going to be believable, that's gonna hold up under investigation. I'll tell you one thing, it's not water accident is what everyone thinks.
- [32:30]
Maggie Freeling
I was gonna say. I feel like they're always boating accidents. Always, always.
- [32:34]
Payne Lindsay
And it always looks shady as hell because very often a body will turn up. A body will turn up eventually, like, usually within a few days. So, you know, that's red flag number one, no body. Red flag number two. Law enforcement does, you know, even the most cursory poking around into your circumstances at the time of your death or disappearance and you were in trouble, that looks very suspicious right away. You've got to consider how you're going to do it logistically, of course, how you're going to do this, like spiritually and emotionally. Again, a lot of the people I spoke with had families, had kids. So there was a lot of like mental gymnastics they had to go through to convince themselves this was a good idea. And you know, for the record, it really often wasn't. And then how are you going to live? How are you going to live in your new life? So, you know, we live in an age where you need some kind of documentation to do just about anything. When you are just appearing as someone, you can't just appear like, you know, Botticelli's Venus coming out of the ocean. Like, we have long, long histories, you know, decades long paper trails on us now about of credit, history of proof, of address, all these different things. So depending on what you want to do in your next life, it's really a question of like, are you going to live on the grid and live somewhat comfortably or like off the grid, which nearly impossible. And how are you Going to earn money? Who are you going to be? What kind of life are you going to have? And then, you know, I think when I, when I wrote this book in 2016, what Frank Said was like, you know, just stay the hell offline. Like people think that they can anonymize their IP address and, you know, use all these different modes of deception that way. And that's really impossible. I think that's only more impossible now. I think it's also impossible to stay offline now. So, I mean, that's a big question of how you obscure your trail that way.
- [34:42]
Maggie Freeling
You used the case of Dylan McDermott getting caught. Who was that and what happened?
- [34:48]
Payne Lindsay
Dylan McDermott was the boyfriend of Olivia Newton John and he owed a ton of unpaid child support. So he decided, genius that he was, that he is going to, you know, charter a fishing boat in Mexico and meet his untimely demise that way. And that's what he did. And again, you have two big red flags there, like outstanding debt and nobody. So investigators, you know, started looking for him. And the way they did it was they set up this trap, basically a website dedicated to finding McDermott. And what they did was they monitored the IP traffic to this website and they saw a cluster of, you know, log ons coming from a place in Mexico near where McDermott is, had disappeared. So they basically, the investigators, he just fell right into their trap. This was him, he was logging on to this website, trying to see what people were saying about him, what they had on him, et cetera. And, you know, he just delivered himself like, you know, on a platter to these investigators.
- [36:02]
Maggie Freeling
Is it difficult to avoid friends, loved ones, family? Like, what is your life like once you do disappear or die?
- [36:11]
Payne Lindsay
Yeah, I mean, it's a good question. I think the biggest question is what are you running from? That's going to determine. That's really the determining factor. So if you are evading some kind of criminal prosecution, it would make sense then that you would cut all ties to your past, that you would have to, you know, really relocate somewhere. I mean, where, I'm not even sure. I don't know, extradition laws, like all those sorts of things. Those are things you'd have to think of. What are you trying to evade? Some of the people that Frank helped disappear were women who were in domestic partner violence situations. So, you know, they really left everything behind. Their house, their job, their life, the life as they knew it, all of that, because they were really running for their lives. So I think that that's the really, the big Question. I think it can look like a lot of different things. You know, one thing that, um, Steve Rombaum, who I interviewed and, and Frank always said, it's like, what kind, again, what kind of life do you want to live? Do you want to live as a kind of completely undocumented, cash based worker in the informal economy, or do you want to be able to have access to more resources? And then that's going to, you know, trigger another set of considerations?
- [37:35]
Maggie Freeling
Be back after a short break.
- [37:41]
Elizabeth Greenwood
Hey, listeners, if you have a tip or theories about a case you want to share or a case of interest you'd like to recommend to us, then we want to hear from you. Email us casesenderfoot tv DM us on Instagram UAVWeekly or give us a call at 770-545-6411. You can also join the conversation on our Discord at Discord. GG/UpAndVanished. Now back to the show.
- [38:15]
Maggie Freeling
You obtained your own death certificate. What was that like to hold your death certificate and then tell me about that journey?
- [38:23]
Payne Lindsay
It was wild. It was very chilling to, you know, hold in just these little, you know, bureaucratic boxes, like, the details of my death. So I did this more as kind of journalistic muckraking rather than having the true desire to, like, end it all and start again. I just wanted to see what are the steps you would go through in order to do this. My situation was a little different because as I mentioned, I had been profiling several life insurance fraud investigators who are like the creme de la creme of what they do. And they conduct on the ground investigations all over the world. Basically, the outline of the kind of investigation they would do was it was a, you know, foreign born American national who went overseas, went home, and then met an untimely demise. And they would go, you know, track that person down, but really not track that person down so much as prove that there had not been a death, which is like a slight nuance anyway. All to say, they have a lot of connections, fixers on the ground who kind of grease the wheels of law enforcement over in these foreign countries and just like know how to get documents, etc. Etc. So I was with two guys, Snooki and Bong. They were amazing. And they were these local fixer guys. So it was funny. It was not what I expected at all. I expected that this would be, like, really kind of scary. Like we'd be in, you know, like the back streets of Manila or something. That was not what it was at all we were just waiting and waiting and waiting all day in a very nice hotel lobby because they have people, connections that work in like every office of government that can skim these documents from their official jobs. And that's what we did. So this was someone that worked in this particular office that could get a death certificate. They made a police report a few weeks later. The death was a car accident. And it had all the, you know, official documents too, that I would have needed as a foreigner to submit this to the American embassy. So it was crazy.
- [40:43]
Morgan Abshur
Wow.
- [40:44]
Payne Lindsay
Yeah.
- [40:45]
Maggie Freeling
So Brian Schaeffer does not appear to be running for his life. So what are some of your Initial thoughts on 26 year old Brian Schaeffer?
- [40:55]
Payne Lindsay
Brian's such an interesting case because, you know, unlike the people, the kind of dastardly figures I've described, there's no real impetus that seems immediately obvious for him to want to do this. So just on the surface of things, like, it seems like he was, you know, an upstanding citizen. I know his mom had just died, which is very sad. But, you know, disappearing would not solve that problem. So that doesn't make sense. Of course, you know, that's probably not accounting for his mental and emotional state at that time. But I think just from like the demographic perspective, you know, from what I can tell, young people don't often do this. This is really people who are a bit more into middle aged where they just feel like they have a lot fewer options. And this, you know, takes on its own kind of twisted internal logic as a plan. So Brian to me does not raise a red flag of like, this was definitely a disappearance or a fake death. Right.
- [41:58]
Maggie Freeling
He's young, he's got a lot going for him. You mentioned, you know, his mom dying and maybe he wanted to get away. That was something the police thought at first, that, you know, he went to grief alone. But two years after his disappearance, his father died. And that's something you speak about how difficult it is to stay away. Can you elaborate on that?
- [42:20]
Payne Lindsay
This is something that I think people really don't take into account when they are, you know, scheming this way, is that you can't just kill off the part of yourself that, you know, made the crappy real estate investment or that, you know, got in over your head in whatever it is that you're trying to escape. You really have to heal who you were entirely. So when it comes to maintaining relationships with loved ones, people kind of have this idea that they can just like hide out for a while once things cool down. Reintegrate into their lives. And that's really not possible. So of the ways a lot of people get themselves caught is because they try to do a version of that. They try to, you know, reestablish communication with their loved ones. So I would imagine if Brian had lost his dad, that would be a time of deep distress, of deep heartache and heartbreak where he could conceivably be reaching out to family members, you know, trying to seek solace in his past life. I would be surprised if he didn't do that.
- [43:34]
Maggie Freeling
You know, Brian had a lot of friends. That's not really usual either to kind of break all of those bonds, not just with the family.
- [43:42]
Payne Lindsay
I don't think so. I mean, but we do. Like, like I mentioned, I did see a lot of, you know, middle aged men who did, who were married, who did have children, and they were able to, you know, walk out on that. And those are, you know, in a sense, more, you know, longer term bonds. So I don't know, maybe it was possible for him to, to leave those all behind.
- [44:08]
Maggie Freeling
So I know they were actually early on thinking he did run away because there were some rumors that perhaps Brian was living this alternate life, perhaps he was bi or gay and did not want to get married. And so he ran away to start his true authentic life without anyone in his past knowing he was gay. What do you make of that? Have you seen that?
- [44:33]
Payne Lindsay
I could see that more coming from like a very cloistered community, like a very orthodox religion where people might feel that that's the only real option they have. But again, like, you're coming from such a really sheltered world to be able to pull off the kind of feat it is to disappear or fake your death. I can't imagine these people have much experience, like with, you know, technology, the kind of savviness he would need to manipulate different government systems to do that. So, and that's Brian, of course, that was not his situation. I think that could be possible. I mean, I don't dismiss that theory outright. I think that seems like a real motivation for sure. The fact that Brian disappeared, leaving things kind of open ended that would, I think, align more with the theory that he was escaping the kind of strictures of his life, leaving some flexibility, possibility for reintegration instead of faking his death. So that is one, you know, maybe tally mark in the column of he disappeared.
- [45:47]
Maggie Freeling
Put together everything you know about Brian. Do you think Brian successfully ran away and started a new life?
- [45:54]
Payne Lindsay
It's funny, like when I was doing this research again and again, like I was just kind of really hoping to find someone who had pulled this off for a noble reason, you know, for a truly altruistic, upstanding, morally upright reason. And I never found it. Which is not to say that it doesn't happen. Hopefully these, that's the, you know, vast majority of people who pull this off successfully that we just don't know about. But the people that I was writing about mainly never had that kind of, you know, good and understandable motivation. It was more, you know, cons that people were running, et cetera. So it is my great hope that Brian is out there living his truth. I hope that for him.
- [46:44]
Maggie Freeling
Liz, where can people find you? Find your new book, let us know. And I again encourage everyone to read all of your books. Playing Dead Love in the Time of Incarceration. And your new one, Plug it again.
- [46:55]
Payne Lindsay
Everyday Intuition. You can buy that wherever books are sold. It's also on audiobook, if you like that sort of thing. And you can find me on social media. Iz Greenwood, 4U, number 4 letter U. And I write a really fun sub stack called Letters of Intuition.
- [47:17]
Maggie Freeling
I have to say I don't believe this is one of those cases where the police dropped the ball. They were on it from the start. They poured resources into finding Brian right away. They took it seriously right away. Unfortunately, all the right circumstances have led to Brian being gone for nearly 20 years. I don't believe Brian ran away to start a new life. And I do think he left the mall willingly. But what happened after? I'm not sure. Here's my conversation with Detective Hearst again.
- [47:56]
Payne Lindsay
Do you think the case will be solved?
- [47:58]
John Hurst
I would like to say yes, but I think this is going to be one of them cases that we probably will never know.
- [48:06]
Maggie Freeling
Brian's family and Meredith, one of the last known people to see Brian alive at the Ugly Tuna, all took polygraphs. Detective Hearst told Captain and I that while Clint was initially cooperative, when it came time to the polygraph, he refused. Clint has never spoken publicly about Brian's disappearance. I don't particularly think rejecting the polygraph is nefarious, nor do I think not speaking publicly is either. We know that can lead to wrongful convictions. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, kind of situation. Captain and I personally spent months tracking down every rumor we could, speaking to who we could. In fact, Captain is still digging in, but I walked away believing this was a guy looking forward to the life ahead of him, whether that's with Alexis or not. And whatever happened to him didn't happen out of his own free will. I believe it's very possible Brian wound up in a dumpster. Whether he crawled in the side door of one drunk and disoriented or someone put him in one, I think he wound up at a waste disposal facility that was difficult to search, Hurst told me and Captain they took canines to the landfill many of the dumpsters wound up at, but the dogs hit on everything with blood on it, like a band aid or a tampon. Landfills are very difficult to search. Brian Shaffer is 6 foot 2, 160 to 165 pounds, with brown hair and hazel eyes. He has a Pearl Jam stickman tattoo on his upper right arm and a dot on the iris of his left eye. Brian's brother Derek is his only surviving family member. If you have any information concerning Brian, please contact your local FBI office or the nearest American Embassy or consulate. Y' all, thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of up and Vanish Weekly. Be sure to tune in next week as well. We dig into another new case. Until next time.
- [50:34]
Unknown
Up and Vanish Weekly is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your hosts are Maggie Freeling and myself, Payne Lindsay. The show is written by Maggie Freeling, myself and John Street. Executive producer Producers are Donald Albright and myself. Lead producer is John Street. Additional production by Meredith Steadman and Mike Rooney. Research for the series by Jamie Albright, Celicia Stanton and Carolyn Tallmadge Edit and mix by Dylan Harrington and Sean Nurney. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan Artwork by Byron McCoy Original music by Makeup and Vanity set. Special thanks to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at uta, Beck Media and Marketing and the Nord Group. For more podcasts like up and Vanish Weekly, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us@Tenderfoot TV. Thanks for listening.
- [51:40]
Payne Lindsay
The justice system can be intimidating, but.
- [51:43]
Maggie Freeling
It doesn't have to be.
- [51:44]
Payne Lindsay
Join us to hold public agencies accountable because we all want to drink from.
- [51:50]
Maggie Freeling
The same cup of Justice.
- [51:51]
Payne Lindsay
With tales from the newsroom and the.
- [51:53]
Maggie Freeling
Courtroom, our hosts create the perfect trifecta of legal experience, journalistic integrity and a fire lit to expose the truth wherever it leads. Search for cup of justice wherever you get your podcast or visit cupofjusticepod.com.