Upzoned (Strong Towns)
Episode: 2 Towns, 2 Responses to the Housing Crisis. Which Will Succeed?
Date: October 15, 2025
Host: Abby Newsham
Guest: Norm Van Eeden Petersman
Episode Overview
This episode dives deep into the contrasting approaches of two Denver suburbs—Lakewood and Littleton—as they grapple with the region's acute housing affordability crisis. Using a recent Denver Post article as a springboard, host Abby Newsham and guest Norm Van Eeden Petersman examine how each city’s response illuminates broader national debates about housing reform, neighborhood change, and the balance between local control and regional necessity.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Suburbs and the Housing Crisis: Two Divergent Paths
(01:32 – 04:37)
- Lakewood is pushing for zoning reform and upzoning to encourage more housing variety and greater density, aiming to close a projected shortfall of 5,800 homes over the next decade.
- Littleton is resisting change through a proposed ballot initiative, Measure 3A, that would effectively freeze nearly all but single-family housing types, supported by residents fearing gentrification, and backed by the argument that new development raises, not lowers, prices.
Memorable Quote:
"The two suburbs that they're talking about have become case studies in how communities are responding to Colorado's affordability crisis... their paths diverge sharply." – Abby (03:06)
2. The Suburban Experiment and Exclusion
(04:37 – 06:14)
- Norm characterizes the American suburban model as an “experiment” with three defining practices:
- Exclusion by class or status
- Resistance to change
- Auto dependency
- Littleton’s approach is seen as perpetuating exclusion and resisting even incremental evolution in neighborhood form.
Memorable Quote:
"It's correct for Strong Towns to describe this as the continuation of an experiment... the product is a complete neighborhood rather than recognizing, like neighborhoods are always supposed to be, ecosystems where change is accepted and allowed to occur." – Norm (04:57)
3. Shifting Arguments Against Housing Variety
(06:14 – 08:02)
- Residents now make seemingly contradictory arguments against new housing—some claim it hurts property values while others say it triggers gentrification and displaces them.
- Abby notes the emotional and psychological roots of this resistance, highlighting a persistent desire to see neighborhoods “frozen in time.”
Memorable Quote:
"I hear both opposite arguments, sometimes from the same person... It's really interesting that you're now seeing the speculation that anything different, anything new, both lowers property values and also gentrifies neighborhoods." – Abby (06:24)
4. Freezing Codes: Risks and Inflexibility
(08:02 – 09:48)
- Measure 3A would fix Littleton's development code exactly as of January 1, 2025, requiring a future citywide vote for even minor changes.
- This freeze encompasses all land use, from housing to backyard chickens.
- Abby and Norm both stress the danger of ossifying local codes, which typically need to adapt over time as technology, uses, and needs change.
Memorable Quote:
"To freeze your entire development code... is a really, really bad idea. There is a lot that happens in codes... far beyond housing." – Abby (08:35)
5. Gradual Change vs. Radical Overhauls
(09:48 – 15:51)
- Norm likens “code freezing” to never updating your wardrobe, leaving cities “dated” and prone to more drastic interventions later.
- The Strong Towns vision supports gradual, incremental redevelopment (“the next increment” of housing) as the healthiest way for neighborhoods to evolve.
- They discuss the variance process, emphasizing that each extra regulatory step—like variances—adds cost and complexity, ultimately raising housing prices and reducing affordability.
Memorable Quote:
"It's a little disingenuous for us to say, 'We want housing to be more affordable,' but we're going to make it more complex and burdensome to actually build housing... All of that costs money." – Abby (13:55)
6. The Paradox of Local vs. State Control
(10:14 – 12:10)
- Some in Littleton argue that addressing housing is a state problem, but Norm and Abby contend that because cities are parts of states, it's inextricably both a local and state concern.
- This tension resonates in regions nationwide, as higher-level policies push for more housing while locals push back to preserve control.
Notable Quote:
"Why are local governments being forced to fix what is a state issue in terms of meeting housing targets... and the answer is, because it is truly a local issue." – Norm (10:41)
7. The Inefficiency of Variance-Driven Systems
(12:53 – 15:51)
- Variance processes are burdensome and often unattainable for the average homeowner or small developer, making housing innovation nearly impossible in practice.
- Both hosts emphasize a need for regulatory frameworks that allow modest changes by right, rather than politicizing every attempt to adapt a property.
Highlight:
"None of that happens for free. All of that is getting baked into the cost of housing..." – Abby (13:44)
8. Democracy, Deeds, and Individual Choice
(15:51 – 21:25)
- Norm proposes a creative workaround for those truly committed to single-family exclusivity: use deed restrictions at the individual property level, rather than citywide laws, preserving choice and flexibility.
- They posit that big, lasting regulatory decisions should involve meaningful, informed participation, not just a minority at the ballot box.
Memorable Exchange:
"I say have deed signing parties." – Norm (19:46)
"Yeah, that's a brilliant point... because it wouldn't freeze everything else in place." – Abby (20:14)
9. Changing Demographics and Personal Narratives
(23:41 – 25:48)
- Abby argues that resistance to new housing types often comes from deeply personal identity and “hero story” narratives about achievement and exclusivity in one’s community.
Notable Quote:
"There's this sense that like it cheapens their own hero story for themselves rather than being additive to their story." – Abby (24:39)
10. Incremental Density, Infrastructure, and Financial Sustainability
(29:12 – 32:10)
- Incremental density—adding modest numbers of new residents—can help cities fund and maintain infrastructure.
- Norm and Abby caution against high-minimum or high-maximum size requirements for homes, preferring flexibility to respond to shifting conditions.
Notable Quotes:
- "If you have an understanding of what that next increment of development looks like... you can plan more strategically." – Abby (30:21)
- "I'd be curious what the story is behind that [5,000 sq. ft. cap]... I'm usually anti-regulating housing sizes at all." – Abby (31:07)
11. The Role of City Staff and Good Governance
(34:51 – 36:42)
- Abby and Norm stress empowering professional planners to use discretion and creativity, rather than forcing every project through a time-consuming, political process.
- Codes should align with community goals, values, and the realities of change.
Notable Quote:
"Having a code that aligns with your community is really important and I would never recommend freezing it forever. That is an asinine idea." – Abby (36:34)
12. Human-Centered Stories and the Danger of Fear Politics
(36:42 – 40:39)
- Norm shares the story of a woman who used an ADU (accessory dwelling unit) and land sale to age in place, showcasing real-world benefits from zoning flexibility.
- Both hosts caution against campaigns that prey on residents’ fears, urging skepticism about fear-based initiatives and the need for accurate, evidence-based discourse.
Memorable Perspective:
"I think people are being manipulated because they're being told to be afraid of these things without data... As a citizen, I say be skeptical of initiatives that are trying to make you afraid because I think that's a perfect way to be manipulated." – Abby (39:40)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Lakewood vs. Littleton overview: 01:32–04:37
- The suburban experiment & exclusion: 04:37–06:14
- Arguments against housing diversity: 06:14–08:02
- Dangers of freezing codes (Measure 3A): 08:02–09:48
- Gradual change vs. radical redevelopment: 09:48–15:51
- Variance & the cost of complexity: 12:53–15:51
- On deed-level decisions & democracy: 15:51–21:25
- Changing demographics & personal identity: 23:41–25:48
- Incremental density & infrastructure: 29:12–32:10
- Home size regulations: 30:51–32:10
- Empowering planners: 34:51–36:42
- Fear-based campaigns & human stories: 36:42–40:39
Tone, Notable Quotes, and Memorable Moments
- The tone is thoughtful, at times gently humorous (“I say have deed signing parties.” – Norm).
- Hosts are empathetic to residents’ fears while firmly advocating for flexibility and gradual change.
- The analogy between city code ossification and a dated wardrobe (09:48) makes the issue tangible.
- Emphasis on "incremental" or gradual change as not just possible, but preferable—countering narratives of sudden, sweeping redevelopment.
- The discussion is humanized by stories of real individuals whose lives improve through flexible housing options.
Closing Thoughts
The episode highlights that housing reform debates are not merely policy matters, but cultural and psychological ones deeply rooted in identity, narratives of self-worth, and fear. By contrasting Lakewood's incremental, open approach with Littleton's defensive posture, Abby and Norm invite listeners to consider not only the practical but the philosophical foundations of community and change.
Listen for:
- The creative advocacy for property-level solutions as alternatives to citywide bans (19:46–21:25)
- The critique of fear-based campaigns and the call for skepticism and data (39:35–40:39)
- A rare, balanced look at both sides of a highly emotional civic debate (41:49–43:01)
For Further Information, the episode references:
- The original Denver Post article by John Aguilar (commended for its quality reporting)
- Virtual events and materials provided by Strong Towns for Littleton residents
If you missed the episode, this summary captures all essential arguments, notable exchanges, and the context behind Lakewood and Littleton's very different responses to the housing crisis.