Podcast Title: Upzoned
Host/Author: Strong Towns
Episode: From Silos to Success: How To Make City Building More Collaborative
Release Date: October 2, 2024

Introduction

In this episode of Upzoned, Abby Newsham and Chuck Marone delve into the complexities of city building, focusing on the prevalent issue of professional silos and exploring strategies to foster a more collaborative environment. Drawing inspiration from Seth Zarin's insightful article, "Towards a New Way of Educating City Builders," the conversation navigates through the challenges posed by fragmented disciplines and offers actionable solutions to unify diverse expertise for more effective urban development.

Breaking Down Professional Silos in City Building

Abby Newsham initiates the discussion by summarizing Seth Zarin's article, which critiques the compartmentalization of professions involved in shaping the built environment. The article emphasizes how urban planners, architects, code enforcement officers, developers, traffic engineers, lenders, and fire marshals often operate in isolated silos, hampering cohesive city development.

“There are very few people that I could spend like five hours in the car with and talk the entire time with them.”
— Chuck Marone [05:32]

Chuck Marone agrees with Zarin's assessment but surfaces a nuanced perspective. He argues that the real issue lies not solely in the training of professionals but in the organizational structures within city halls that empower a narrow, gatekeeping mindset. This mentality prioritizes adherence to codes and checklists over innovative, big-picture thinking, leading to frustration among city builders who aim to implement comprehensive and adaptive urban solutions.

“City halls... tend to attract an overwhelming majority of the copy edit kind of mindset.”
— Chuck Marone [13:45]

The Role of Education in Shaping City Builders

While acknowledging the shortcomings in higher education as highlighted by Zarin, Chuck Marone contends that universities are not the primary culprits in perpetuating silos. Instead, he posits that the issue is deeply rooted in how city halls are structured, emphasizing rigid processes over collaborative flexibility.

“Universities are much, much harder to change.”
— Chuck Marone [53:55]

Abby Newsham echoes this sentiment, suggesting that while educational reforms are beneficial, the real transformation must occur within municipal structures. She emphasizes the importance of multidisciplinary exposure during education but cautions against over-relying on universities to create well-rounded city builders.

“Urban planning is something that is very general in a lot of ways. What is urban planning? Nobody I went to school with does the same job.”
— Abby Newsham [22:08]

Shifting Organizational Structures: From Gatekeepers to Empowered Managers

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around redefining the roles within city halls to encourage collaboration. Chuck Marone advocates for empowering managers who possess a blend of problem-solving skills and interpersonal abilities to lead cross-disciplinary teams effectively.

“We need to hold those people responsible for the results that they're getting, not the process they're using to get to the results.”
— Chuck Marone [26:58]

He further illustrates the inefficiency of the current system by comparing city officials to cogs in a machine, emphasizing the lack of flexibility in adapting to dynamic urban challenges.

“Local government is like, wildly efficient at repeating this thing over and over and over again.”
— Chuck Marone [32:14]

Abby suggests that integrating a humanistic approach into city management can bridge the gap between rigid processes and the need for innovative urban solutions.

“It's about inserting humanism into the way that we manage building cities.”
— Abby Newsham [30:46]

Implementing a Multi-Personality Approach to City Building

The trio explores the concept of a multi-personality approach, where diverse skill sets and mindsets are leveraged to enhance city building. Chuck emphasizes the necessity of having both gatekeepers and dynamic, empowered managers to balance technical expertise with visionary leadership.

“We need specialists who are empowered, not gatekeepers in charge.”
— Chuck Marone [39:14]

Abby concurs, highlighting the importance of team-based methodologies over siloed efforts to achieve more cohesive and resilient urban development.

“Treating this like a team effort rather than a siloed effort.”
— Chuck Marone [45:06]

Personal Reflections and Broader Implications

Throughout the episode, Abby and Chuck share personal anecdotes that underscore their points. They discuss the challenges of working within rigid systems and the importance of personal adaptability and continuous learning in fostering a collaborative environment.

For instance, Chuck reflects on his preference for roles that allow him to focus on outcomes rather than being bogged down by procedural constraints.

“They can come across as incredibly aggravating, just like deep, deep mindless gatekeepers.”
— Chuck Marone [08:42]

Abby adds that many urban planners find themselves disheartened by the inability to implement their aspirations within the constrained frameworks of city administration.

“People who go into public sector positions are completely broken after several years because they cannot live out any of the aspirations that excited them about studying urban planning.”
— Abby Newsham [19:48]

Conclusion: Towards a More Collaborative Future in City Building

The episode concludes with a consensus on the need for structural reforms within municipal governance to break down silos and foster a more collaborative environment. Both Abby and Chuck advocate for redefining roles to balance technical expertise with empowered leadership, enabling city builders to adapt and innovate effectively.

“We have to have a good manager, you've got to have a good kind of oversight to it.”
— Chuck Marone [27:19]

They emphasize that while educational institutions play a role in shaping city builders, the primary transformation must occur within city halls by restructuring workflows and empowering diverse skill sets to work collaboratively towards common urban goals.

Key Takeaways

1. Professional Silos: Fragmentation among urban planning disciplines hampers cohesive city development.
2. Organizational Structures: City halls currently favor gatekeeping over innovative, empowered leadership.
3. Education vs. Structure: While education can foster multidisciplinary skills, structural reforms in municipal governance are crucial for collaboration.
4. Multi-Personality Approach: Balancing technical experts with dynamic managers can enhance city building efficiency and creativity.
5. Collaborative Solutions: Implementing team-based methodologies and redefining roles can break down silos and promote a more resilient urban environment.

Notable Quotes

• “We need to hold those people responsible for the results that they're getting, not the process they're using to get to the results.”
  — Chuck Marone [26:58]

• “Local government is like, wildly efficient at repeating this thing over and over and over again.”
  — Chuck Marone [32:14]

• “City buildings should empower diverse personality types to collaborate effectively.”
  — Abby Newsham [43:13]

For a deeper dive into the topics discussed, listeners are encouraged to read Seth Zarin's article "Towards a New Way of Educating City Builders" available on his Substack.

Thank you for listening to Upzoned. Stay tuned for more insightful discussions on building stronger, more collaborative cities.