Upzoned Podcast Summary: "Suburbs Broke the American Sunbelt. Now What?"
Release Date: July 16, 2025
Hosts: Abby Newsham, Chuck Marohn
Guest: Rachel Leonardo, Video Producer at Strong Towns
Introduction
In this episode of Upzoned, Abby Newsham welcomes Rachel Leonardo, a video producer from Strong Towns based in Spain, to discuss the pivotal article titled "Suburbs Broke the American Sunbelt. Now What?" by Mariana Bolognova. The episode delves into the unintended consequences of suburban sprawl in the American Sunbelt, exploring the challenges of housing affordability, rigid zoning laws, and the financial fragility that has emerged despite decades of growth.
Discussion of the Core Article
Abby introduces the main topic by summarizing Bolognova’s article, which examines how decades of suburban expansion in cities like Phoenix, Dallas, and Atlanta—once celebrated for their affordability and low regulation—are now facing stagnation in housing construction, rising costs, and increasingly restrictive zoning. The hosts highlight contributions from leading economists and Strong Towns' own Chuck Marohn, Ezra Klein, Ali Quinlan, and Nolan Gray, who underscore how single-use zoning has entrenched car-dependent, low-density patterns resistant to change.
Notable Quote:
"The same sprawl-based model that once fueled growth is now rendering these cities fragile and expensive." – Abby Newsham [04:15]
Complexities of Suburban Development
Rachel Leonardo appreciates the article's balanced view of post-World War II suburban growth, acknowledging that while sprawl was initially seen as beneficial, its rigidity has hindered evolution. She emphasizes the need to move away from viewing suburban expansion as a black-and-white issue, highlighting the complexities involved in adapting development patterns to be more people-friendly.
Notable Quote:
"It's not about making U.S. or Canadian cities like European cities, but rather adapting certain frameworks to suit North American contexts." – Rachel Leonardo [02:31]
Financial Resilience and Zoning Reforms
Abby discusses the growing recognition among city leaders, especially in Texas, about the financial liabilities of current development patterns. She points out the tension between state and federal funding priorities that often favor highway expansion and outward growth over incremental, small-scale development. Abby criticizes the article for not delving deeper into how incremental development can be effectively implemented, despite featuring experts like Chuck Marohn and Ali Quinlan.
Notable Quote:
"It's not a one-size-fits-all solution... It takes a bunch of scrappy, weird people willing to take a chance on cool buildings." – Abby Newsham [10:33]
Challenges of Infill Development
Rachel highlights the economic and logistical barriers to urban infill projects, contrasting them with the more straightforward and profitable greenfield developments. She notes issues like outdated infrastructure, environmental concerns, and the unpredictability of existing site conditions, which deter developers from pursuing infill opportunities.
Notable Quote:
"There's a real discussion to be had about where the risk lies and how our financial tools can support profitable infill development." – Abby Newsham [08:15]
Community Resistance and Changing Needs
The conversation shifts to community resistance against change, often rooted in NIMBYism (Not In My Backyard). Rachel shares strategies for communicating the benefits of incremental development, such as educational initiatives and showcasing successful local examples. Abby adds that fostering relationships and demonstrating small-scale changes can gradually build acceptance.
Notable Quote:
"We need to allow every neighborhood to change when it's ready so people's lives can adapt to their current needs." – Rachel Leonardo [23:45]
Generational Shifts and Future Adaptations
Abby and Rachel explore how generational changes, particularly with millennials and Gen Z approaching middle age, may influence suburban development. They discuss the potential for more flexible housing solutions like accessory dwelling units and multi-generational homes, which can help communities adapt to aging populations and evolving family structures.
Notable Quote:
"Millennials will likely be more open to allowing their spaces to adapt, enabling them to stay in places where they have community ties." – Rachel Leonardo [29:09]
Innovative Placemaking and Adaptability
Abby envisions creative repurposing of suburban assets, such as transforming neighborhood pools into year-round community centers or markets. Rachel agrees, emphasizing the importance of adaptability in built environments to foster stronger, more resilient communities.
Notable Quote:
"Our environments need to be able to change, and we need to facilitate that adaptability to meet our evolving needs." – Rachel Leonardo [37:05]
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
As the episode wraps up, Rachel underscores North America's capacity for innovation and adaptability, suggesting that similar creativity can be applied to urban planning and development. Abby echoes this optimism, highlighting the positive shift in conversations surrounding urban resilience and the role of organizations like Strong Towns in driving these changes.
Notable Quote:
"Strong Towns and similar organizations play a crucial role in fostering sophisticated understanding and action towards more resilient cities." – Abby Newsham [40:01]
Down Zone Segment
In the lighter "Down Zone" segment, Rachel shares her experiences in Pamplona, Spain, during the San Fermin festival, while Abby discusses her recent home improvement projects, including gutter rerouting and patio construction. They also recommend resources, such as Michel Durand Wood’s book "You'll Pay for This," as an accessible introduction to city finance.
Closing Remarks
The episode concludes with Chuck Marohn promoting Strong Towns' new "Housing Ready" toolkit, encouraging cities to assess and improve their housing development readiness.
Notable Quote:
"Download the toolkit at strongtowns.org/housingready and see if your city meets the criteria to be celebrated as a Housing Ready City." – Chuck Marohn [53:01]
Final Thoughts
"Suburbs Broke the American Sunbelt. Now What?" offers a comprehensive examination of the historical and current challenges facing suburban development in America's Sunbelt regions. Through thoughtful dialogue between Abby Newsham and Rachel Leonardo, the episode highlights the necessity for adaptable, financially resilient, and community-focused urban planning strategies to navigate the evolving landscape of American suburbs.