Upzoned Podcast Episode Summary: "What Is the Strong Towns Response to Natural Disasters?"

Released on October 16, 2024, the "Upzoned" podcast hosted by Strong Towns features Abby Newsham and Chuck Marohn discussing the organization's response to natural disasters. This episode delves deep into the challenges of managed retreat, governmental roles, insurance limitations, and strategic approaches to building resilient communities.

1. Opening Discussion: Hurricane Helen and Immediate Impacts

The episode begins with Abby Newsham and Chuck Marohn addressing the recent devastation caused by Hurricane Helen in the southeastern United States. They express concern for those affected, particularly highlighting Asheville, North Carolina, and commending local efforts to aid recovery.

• Abby Newsham (02:07): Introduces the episode’s focus, mentioning the massive damages from Hurricane Helen and extending support to affected communities.

• Chuck Marohn (05:16): Reflects on the severity of the disaster, noting, “People are still without power, still without water... it will take a long time to actually get back to some sense of normalcy.”

2. Current Managed Retreat Strategies: Limitations and Scalability

Abby introduces an insightful article from Shelterforce by Tim Robustelli and Ulaya Panfil titled “Retreating from the Coast. Makes sense, but our current approach isn't working.” The article highlights the pressing need for relocating 20 million Americans by 2100 due to climate-related risks.

• Statistics Highlighted:

  • Managed Retreat Success: Over the past 40 years, FEMA and HUD have relocated 50,000 people at a cost of $3.4 billion.
  • Scalability Issue: To relocate 20 million people, the current approach would take approximately 4,000 years, vastly outpacing the urgent timeline.

• Abby Newsham (07:47): Points out the impracticality of the current strategies, stating, “The current approach, it's called managed retreat... It just feels impossible.”

3. Challenges in Government and Insurance Systems

Chuck Marohn critiques the existing frameworks, emphasizing the mismatch between federal initiatives and local needs. He discusses how insurance companies are ill-equipped to handle systematic risks posed by large-scale natural disasters.

• Chuck Marohn (10:58): Raises concerns about the feasibility of relocating millions, questioning, “If you have me like, predict out here's where it will be and here's how much it will cost... that is an actually like, impossible thing to do.”

• Insurance Limitations:

  • Chuck Marohn (29:33): Explains, “Insurance companies are designed to make money and to insure people against risk. They are not designed to withstand systematic collapse.”

• Governmental Misalignment:

  • Abby Newsham (32:01): Highlights discrepancies, “The federal government... promoting... density and change their zoning standards... are implementing programs to scale up the population... while wanting to move people to safer areas.”

4. Strategic Approaches: Tactical Resilience vs. Over-engineering

The conversation shifts to evaluating different strategies for disaster preparedness. Chuck advocates for tactical resilience—building back to functionality rather than overly fortified structures.

• Critique of 'Build Back Better':

  • Chuck Marohn (15:28): Discusses the pitfalls of over-reliance on large-scale infrastructure, saying, “We come to rely and depend on those systems at the same time that we don't maintain them well enough.”

• Alternative Strategies:

  • Chuck Marohn (26:49): Suggests, “Build a cheap bridge that is easy to fix... Why fortify it against the thousand-year storm?”

• Cultural Insights:

  • Chuck Marohn (33:16): Reflects on historical resilience, “These civilizations... became very risk averse. We have lost in the same way that we build in a desert, expecting water... we are immune to, like, the risks that are around us.”

5. Economic and Emotional Barriers to Relocation

Abby and Chuck explore the deep-seated emotional and economic ties people have to their homes and communities, making relocation a complex and often resisted solution.

• Abby Newsham (28:48): Questions the practicality of relocated living, “Chuck, if suddenly your town became... you are really emotionally tied to an area, very economically tied to an area. It's really hard to get people to move.”

• Chuck Marohn (40:10): Emphasizes the unpredictability of disasters, “If we move 100 people... it's probably one or two out of those hundred actually needed to be moved.”

6. Future Outlook and Concluding Thoughts

The episode concludes with reflections on the necessity for proactive and adaptable strategies to handle the increasing frequency and intensity of natural disasters. Abby and Chuck underscore the urgency of reimagining governmental policies and community planning to foster resilience.

• Chuck Marohn (44:30): Summarizes the needed mindset shift, “Let's save people's lives. Let's put back what we can, but let's not worry about things that get blown over.”

• Abby Newsham (36:55): Agrees on the unsustainable nature of current practices, “I think it's becoming more and more clear that not every... we can't continue to operate that way.”

Key Takeaways

• Managed Retreat's Current State: Existing strategies are insufficient to meet the projected need for relocating millions due to climate risks.

• Government and Insurance Gaps: There is a critical misalignment between federal policies, local implementation, and the capacities of insurance systems to handle widespread disasters.

• Strategic Resilience: Emphasizing practical, cost-effective rebuilding over overly fortified structures can lead to more sustainable disaster preparedness.

• Cultural Resistance: Emotional and economic attachments to places pose significant challenges to implementing managed retreat effectively.

• Urgency for Policy Reform: Proactive, scalable, and adaptable governmental policies are essential to address the looming threats of natural disasters adequately.

This episode of "Upzoned" offers a profound examination of the complexities surrounding managed retreat and the broader response to natural disasters. Abby Newsham and Chuck Marohn provide critical insights into the multifaceted challenges and propose a shift towards more pragmatic and resilient strategies.