1960s Liberalism Who Killed Michael Brown | Victor Davis HansonEli steele Draft

Summary

Podcast Summary: Victor Davis Hanson: In His Own Words
Episode: 1960s Liberalism, Who Killed Michael Brown | Victor Davis Hanson Eli Steele Draft
Host: Jack Fowler (Guest-hosting for Victor Davis Hanson)
Guest: Eli Steele, Filmmaker
Date: January 17, 2026

---

Overview

This episode features filmmaker Eli Steele, co-creator of the documentary What Killed Michael Brown?, in a wide-ranging conversation with guest host Jack Fowler. The discussion pivots around the legacy of 1960s liberalism, the meaning and impact of white guilt in America, and the cultural/historical roots of tensions over race and authority, especially as explored in the deaths such as Michael Brown’s in Ferguson, Missouri. The episode also dives into cancel culture’s impact on the film’s distribution, the collaborative process between Eli and his father Shelby Steele, and the continuing legacy of Martin Luther King Jr.'s vision for America.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Purpose of What Killed Michael Brown?

• Title Rationale:

  • The documentary’s title intentionally asks “what,” rather than “who,” shifting focus from the police officer’s personal responsibility to the larger cultural and historical forces at play.

    “We know who killed Michael Brown. Officer Darren Wilson. But his name was not important…It was the color of his skin that mattered the most, and his whiteness.” – Eli Steele (04:53)

  • The film uses the Michael Brown case to probe decades of social policy, migration patterns, and changes in black communities from self-reliance to dependency.

• Historical Context Explored:

  • Tracks the Great Migration, the rise of prosperous black neighborhoods, and subsequent upheaval as public policy shifted families into housing projects.
  • Explores how “post-Dixie liberalism” replaced autonomy with dependency, eroding black agency.
  • Examines the emergence of “bad faith”—the belief that black Americans cannot succeed independently, which, as Shelby Steele argues, “injured the minds of people” (06:40).

• Consequences for Today:

  • The shooting in Ferguson is portrayed as a watershed moment dividing America and catalyzing modern identity politics.
  • The film seeks to investigate the “apparatus of post-dixie liberalism, the bad faith, the lack of equity in America” and their roles in Michael Brown’s mindset and fate.

2. Cancel Culture and Censorship of the Documentary

• Banning from Amazon:
  • Amazon initially blocked the documentary with a vague, categorical rejection and without appeal.

    “It was, I guess, [a] surprise or a little shock to feel the power…that they could deny you…they control, they have a monopoly…It was scary.” – Eli Steele (12:17)

  • Notable that Amazon, as a de facto monopoly, can suppress content without clear justification.
  • Steele relates the banality and chilling effect of such raw, bureaucratic power.
  • Widespread media and advocacy pressure ultimately forced Amazon to allow the film’s release.

3. Working with Shelby Steele: The Father-Son Dynamic

• Collaboration:
  • Eli reflects on being profoundly deaf and the extraordinary effort Shelby and his wife made to ensure Eli could speak and hear. This family context underscored the significance of their later, ideologically driven collaborations.

    “I was born profoundly deaf… it took them almost four years to get me to learn how to hear and speak. That kind of tells you…what kind of man he is.” – Eli Steele (18:16)

  • Their work together was unplanned but grew from mutual agreement on the importance of examining pivotal moments in American society (e.g., Ferguson).
  • Process described as sometimes “all-out war” intellectually, but ultimately generative and rewarding, built on trust and shared goals.

4. White Guilt: The Subject of Their Next Documentary

• Defining White Guilt:

  • Quoting Shelby Steele:

    “White guilt is the fallout of centuries of oppression in America… The white people who were on the top lost moral authority… what they've been trying to do, especially on the left, is regain that moral authority.” – Eli Steele, relaying Shelby Steele (24:23, 01:08)

  • White guilt as the engine behind much of modern progressive policy; intertwined with black grievance leaders.
  • The dynamic is explained as “two sides of the same coin,” with each camp exploiting the other’s needs—one for innocence/moral authority, one for validation and compensation.
  • The new documentary aims to make these invisible social forces more visible and comprehensible.
  • Post-October 7th events further clarified for the filmmakers how liberation ideology (oppressed vs. oppressor) culturally manifests, often in anti-Western rhetoric.
  • White guilt facilitates entry of “liberation ideologies,” including Marxism, under the guise of empathy.

• Release Details:

  • Final cut targeted for April, wide release hoped for in May.
  • Website for updates: whiteguiltfilm.com

5. The Enduring Message of Martin Luther King Jr.

• Unity vs. Victimhood:
  • Reflections on King’s famous 1965 message: “be all you can be,” urging personal and national uplift rather than grievance.
  • Emphasizes King’s avoidance of shaming or white guilt; “He was not playing off of white guilt. He was not doing that. … We all need to live up to the principle in the Constitution. We all need to have that same shot. So that's a very unifying message.” – Eli Steele (33:18)
  • Both left and right are charged with betraying King’s legacy—left by promoting dependency and lowered standards, right by misunderstanding or deconstructing his impact.
  • Eli draws a through-line from King’s vision and messages to the aspirations underlying his and his father’s work.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the “what” in What Killed Michael Brown?

  “That title was the perfect title because it really framed what we were doing with the film… It allowed us to chronicle how blacks had moved up to St. Louis during the Great Migration… then all of a sudden a shift from home-ownership to government housing…and how post-Dixie liberalism was different than segregation and slavery.” – Eli Steele (05:30)

• On cancel culture’s impact:

  “You spend so much time making a film… And Amazon, whether we like it or not, is part of our habit… It was a kind of surprise or a little shock to feel the power to feel the rejection.” – Eli Steele (12:17)

• On working with his father:

  “…it has always resulted in an amazing insight in somebody better and showed us to rehab that faith in the process and even carried over to the new film White Guilt” – Eli Steele (20:08)

• On white guilt today:

  “White guilt has exploded… It actually increased. It’s actually become even more evil than we realized. It’s far more insidious.” – Eli Steele (24:23)

• On Martin Luther King’s message:

  “He was not shaming… not playing off of white guilt. He was saying, your ancestors, the white was still great. But we all need to live up to the principle in the Constitution… That’s a very unifying message.” – Eli Steele (33:18)

---

Timestamped Breakdown

• [03:02] – Eli’s background; collaborating with his father Shelby Steele; significance to What Killed Michael Brown?
• [04:53] – Rationale for What Killed Michael Brown?; focus on broader forces, not just individual actors.
• [06:30-07:45] – Historical narrative: Great Migration, rise and decline of black neighborhoods, post-1960s liberal policies.
• [09:12] – Impact of urban renewal/housing projects—“one of the great traumas of American history.”
• [12:17] – Amazon ban of the documentary; emotional and professional toll; eventual reversal.
• [18:06] – Working with Shelby Steele; family history; creative process.
• [24:23] – Upcoming documentary on white guilt; defining and explaining its role in American society.
• [29:14] – Release plans for White Guilt; website for more info.
• [32:47] – Reflections on Martin Luther King Jr. and the relevance of his vision today.

---

Further Resources

• White Guilt Documentary: whiteguiltfilm.com
• Eli Steele’s Substack: Man of Steel Substack (confirm spelling/link from transcript as needed)
• Victor Davis Hanson article on Martin Luther King: Philanthropy Daily (published January 16)

---

This episode offers a deeply personal, historically informed critique of contemporary American racial discourse and an insider’s look at the creation and suppression of challenging documentaries. It is especially useful for listeners seeking to understand not only the facts of events like Ferguson, but the broader philosophical and cultural trends shaping their interpretation and impact.

Transcript

[A]

A little shocky to feel the power to feel the rejection I've been rejecting most of my life. But this was the power for rejection and the banality of it. And it was also scary because, you know, as a filmmaker, you spend so much time making a film. A lot of people come to me and they say, I don't feeling white guilt. I don't have white guilt. Of course you don't. You can feel guilty about what you think too. But white guilt is not that. White guilt is to fall out centuries of oppression in America. You cannot have all of that oppression and then have a reckoning in the nicest dictionary where you come face to face with the evil, with the racial evil, and not have them fall out. And the fallout with the white people who are on the top lost the moral authority. They lost it. They lost everything. They have been exposed. And so what they've been trying to do, especially on the left, is regain that moral authority. And that is what has been driving America.

[B]

Well, hello ladies and hello, gentlemen. Welcome to Victor Davis Hansen in his own words, without Victor Davis Hansen in his own Words. This is one of the Victor's Recuperating series of podcasts we're doing while Victor recuperates from the major surgery he recently had. And he is recuperating, folks, and he's deeply appreciative of all the concern and the many prayers and thank you all for that. I am Jack Fowler. I'm the host. I'm here with Eli Steele, the great filmmaker. We are talking on Wednesday, January 14th, and this particular episode will be up on January 17th. We are happily housed at the Daily Signal and thanks for that. Rob Bluey and his great team, Tim Kennedy and others. The way we're doing these recuperative podcasts is I ask an important person. Sorry, Eli, you're an important person. You got to deal with that. I ask five questions and the first question is going to be about what killed Michael Brown. That will come after a brief bio and that will come after these important messages. We are back with Victor Davis Hansen in his own words. Let me first say who Eli is. I got it written down here. Eli. Eli Steele is the president of man of Steel Productions and is an award winning filmmaker who has a passion for uncovering the untold stories of America. He's a graduate of Claremont McKenna College and Pepperdine University's School of Public Policy. Steele recently collaborated with his father, Shelby Steele, on the documentary what Killed Michael Brown, which we will talk about. And he's collaborating with him on A forthcoming documentary, White Guilt, which we will also be talking about. Eli is a friend of Victor Davis Hanson's. That's fair to say, correct, Eli?

[A]

Yes, yes, very good. In my profession at Pepperdine.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I think Victor actually still on and off. He taught there recently, again, a couple of months ago. So it's tough having that view from that school of public policy. It's a rough campus there. So. Hey, Eli, let's get. Let's start with the first question. In 2014, Michael Brown died after an altercation with a Ferguson, Missouri police officer. You made that documentary, what Killed Michael Brown? In 2020, and that was released into the teeth of the George Floyd riots and their aftermath. Most people would have expected a documentary on the death of Michael Brown to have been titled with who? But you asked what they would have said, who killed Michael Brown? But you said your title was what Killed Michael Brown? So why did you do that? And what was the answer to the film's title, what did Kill Michael Brown?

[A]

Thank you, Jack. And before I get there, I would just let you stay. Acknowledged that Fisher has been a huge supporter of my father and I and that without his support, what Killed Michael Brown? And even the upcoming White Guilt would not be possible. So just want to acknowledge, especially in time of recuperation, that he is one of the most generous person people I've ever met. So it's honest.

[B]

You know him, he loves all steals yeah. Family steel. And you know that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So anyway, go ahead.

[A]

We're praying for him. So to your question. Well, we know who killed Michael Brown. Officer Darren Wilson. But his name was not important. The officer was not important. It was the color of his skin that mattered the most and his whiteness. And as far as many who were concerned, from activists to the media, this was a racial killing. For some even called it a state stanchion execution. That was the language that would be used back then. A white cop killed a black teen. Okay, so then the question become, then what created this situation? What were the ingredients, this Latin American umpire on that August 9th of 2014, what was it that brought America to this point and divided her to this day? We believe that that moment in American history was what led to the divide that we have to today. There were things percolated before, but that shooting divided us. And eventually that led us to the question of what was it that killed Michael Brown? And the title was my father's idea. And I remember when I heard it for the first time, it was like, oh, man. Oh, okay, you're playing with Fire now, because you're actually asking what killed Michael Brown? And back then, this was about maybe 2018, we were in the height of Black Lives Matter. People were not talking. Everybody was literally bowing down and going along with the blow. So today we have a little bit more freedom, but back then it's more 10. And I knew that this title was the perfect title because it really framed what we were doing with the film. And it turned the film into an investigation of what killed Michael Brown. And it allowed us to travel back in time to, you know, and use Dane Lewitt at the. At the lab to explore the questions, what killed him? And so we were able to kind of chronicle how blacks had moved up to St. Louis during the Great Migration, how they were moving up. I mean, poverty levels were dropping, they were buying home, they were having gracious shit. Then that leads this really nice ditchy to my father's idea of post Dixie liberalism. And they all of a sudden ship from home ownership to living in government housing, to shift from, you know, working, stay married to gave me the system to have, you know, which led to manning the house rules, which led to single parent households, which led to all of this. Most of all, this really allowed us to explore the idea of bad beat and how that changed and how post disease liberalism was different than the segregation and slavery. Because it really, as my father says, it really got injured in the mind of people. It really took over the mind and said, no, you cannot do this without the white man. No, you cannot do that on your own. You need outside bullshit. So it took an issue sheet away from black people. Sure. I mean, I can't go into all the details in the film, but when you start shooting August Night, Bob Wilson, who is in the film, says, well, would Michael Brown have charged the cop if Michael Brown valued his life? And so what we were saying is there was the whole apparatus of the postdoccious liberalism, the bad faith, the lack of equity in America. The contributors to Michael Brown's faithful charge, you know, because if he valued his own life, he would not charge the cop. The cop had a bullet and he knew that, but he charged the cop anyway. So that tells you a lot about that mindset.

[B]

Howard Husock. I don't know if you know Howard. His book come out recently on the projects. And as you read these, and you see this in. You did much of this in the documentary. Go back and see the wholesale destruction of vibrant black neighborhoods that were maybe a little rough around the edges. But to turn these communities and civil society to Flatten them and put up projects is such one of the great traumas of American history. And it's still bearing terrible fruit. I'm going to ask you another question here, but first, Eli, this is a show. We have to read commercials. You know that. So we're only a few weeks into winter. I'm here in Connecticut. Eli's at sunny California. So these snow doesn't matter, I don't think. But it's already. We're already experiencing brutal cold, huge snowstorms, and of course, power outages. And think about it. If the power goes out when it's really cold, do you have a way to keep yourself and your family warm? This is a real problem. Winter power outages can even be life threatening. Like in Texas a few years ago with that terrible ice storm. That's why so many Americans are getting a Vesta off grid heater from my Patriot Supply. It's a space heater that doesn't use electricity or propane. It runs on something called canned heat, which is an indoor safe fuel. With a Vesta stashed in your closet, you know you can keep warm no matter what. It even doubles as a stove to cook your food. And that's pretty cool, even though the stove is pretty hot. So the best part is right now, you can get the Vesta and a bunch of additional preparedness gear as free gifts. Free. When you order the winter survival kit from my Patriot Supply, just go to mypatriotsupply.com VDH to see everything included. This offer won't last long, so go to my patriotsupply.com VDH today. That's mypatriotsupply.com VDH we thank the very good people from my Patriot Supply for sponsoring Victor Davis Hansen in his own words. Second question to Eli Steele, the president of man of Steel Productions, the great documentarian and filmmaker. Eli. Timing is everything. The documentary also was released. This is what killed Michael Brown as Cancel Culture was thrilling to its mission. Amazon canceled you for a while. It blocked the sale and access to the documentary. I'm going to call you an artist, which is what you are. You're going to have to deal with that, too. So tell us, Eli, what is it like to have a work of art and a work of truth put off limits because. Because of what? Because it told the truth. Tell us about that experience, please.

[A]

Yeah. And yet it was not easy. It was. I think we released the film on August 9th. I'm sorry, October 19th of 2020. And so that was a Friday. And so on this Tuesday before I get a notice from Amazon, like 7 o' clock at night. By the way, Jason Riley of the World Truth Journal had published an op ed. Is Amazon going to platform to film? Because I had put the film on the platform almost two months before and usually it takes maybe two weeks to get the verification, so forth. And I was just. And it kept dragging on. I was getting no answer and I was trying to reach somebody there. And so I raised that question situation. He took that and ran with it. So I don't know if Amazon saw that article, but ironically at this time, he published that article. On 5 o' clock on Tuesday, I get an email from Amazon saying, your film has been rejected. It doesn't meet our criteria for submission and they cannot be appealed. And do not try. It's on the website. But do not even try because most of the time, you know, you don't give people one try. You know, if there's something wrong, they should fix it. So, you know, I looked up the criteria. It was mainly profanity, sexuality, stuff like that. Risked the film did not. Profanity. We did not have that. We didn't meet any of the offensive criteria. And so it was a. It was a. At that moment, I admit it was. I was kind of stunned. I was kind of. But she realized that they had that much power and that they could deny you. Because Amazon, whether we like you or not, is part of our habit. Mr. Yushua. You know how you just click, you know, even though they take 50% of every sale, which is very high, Most people take 10, 20%. They take 50%. But you're paying for the ease of use, you're paying for the asset. So I think it was. So I was able to pivot, but it was, I guess, surprise or a little shocky. She feel the power. She feel the power. She feel the rejection I'd be rejecting most of my life. But this was a powerful rejection and the banality of it. And so. And it was also scary because, you know, as a filmmaker, you spend so much time making a film, so much time and effort goes into it, and then you put your film on a platform. This is very different than a publisher. A publisher has the right to determine what goes on, what they publish. A platform is supposed to be open to all as long as they don't abandon the criteria, which we didn't do. So there's that kind of trust, you know, that violation of trust, that implicit trust that you would have. And Amazon, unfortunately, is just a huge corporation, so they control they have a monopoly, literally a monopoly on everything. No other platform compares. And so it was scary to do that. But thankfully, because of even people like Fitcher, you, Wall Street Journal, Fox, we were able to push back and Amazon backed off.

[B]

I love that Amazon publishes or retails. You could buy a porn about Sasqu or Yeti fantasy porn, but they couldn't watch Kill Michael Brown or buy books on transsexual policy. It's just crazy. Well, anyway, I have a few more questions to ask you and one is about the relationship with your famous and rightly famous dad. And we're gonna get to that and about the very important documentary you have in the works right now on White Guilt. And we'll do that when we come back from these important mess. We are back with Victor Davis Hansen in His Own Words recording on Wednesday the 14th of January, and this episode will be up on the 17th of January. Question three for Eli Steele. Eli, I've known personally, I, Jack Fowler, have known a few accomplished sons of great men. Christopher Buckley, a great friend of mine, whose father of course was William F. Who happened to be my boss at National Review where I worked for 31 years. Then there's Ignat Souls of Nitsyn, who's just a super guy, I have to get him on the show someday. And his father of course is Alexander, who helped bring down the Soviet Union. No small task. And then there's you, Eli, and your father, Shelby, who spent much of his scholarly career exposing how white guilt is the foundation of so much of modern American progressivism. I'd like to know, and I'm sure our viewers and listeners would like to know, what is it like for you to work with your father who serves as the voice and the star of some of your documentaries?

[A]

Horrible. No, no, I think he's been amazed and I think he's been a blessed. I mean it's not something that we planned, it was just something that, you know, we planned it all. But first I should have to say that, you know, I'm very lucky to have him as a father. I mean, I would not be the man I am without having him as a father. I was born profoundly deaf and it was him and my mother who did everything. The power. It took them almost four years to get me to learn how to ear hear and speak. So that kind of tells you a lot about what kind of man here did. He wanted me to have full access to the world. Iranian means you have the chance of being American, being a bunchini adult. And even if he wasn't my father, when he began to publish, because of my background being multiracial, his work would have had a huge influence on me. Never really had any doubt or question about his idea. It just made sense to me. A lot of what he writes is very common sense, very pro American, all about the. So I always agreed with this work, never had any issues with it. And so I had done the film before what killed Michael Brown, How Jack Became Black. And I did this one by myself. And he's in the film after interview Dubship. And then we were just kind of thinking. I was just kind of like, well, what am I going to do next? And we just kind of started talking and then we said, well, let's do one Michael Brown. Because for us, in 2017 was the one moment that bothered us, because it was like that one moment where America did not come together. When the back represented, when the autocracy came out, is that he'd be shot in the back, not in the front. He was not executed normally. He would have them sort of like, oh, okay, that's what happened. No, America divided. And so for us, it was like, let's do something on this. The process have been, I think, because it's a great process because we have father and son, we have that bond, we have that trust. So sometimes there's no filter. So sometimes it's all at war, I mean, over the ideas or over what I need or something. But it has always resulted in an amazing insight in somebody better and showed us to rehab that faith in the process and even carried over to the new film White Guild. I mean, we still had our own issues, but we both are committed to the best idea. The best was the best next line. What's the next shot that we put in? So it's been a blessing working with him and to have him. I mean, I don't see myself as him. I see myself as the filmmaker. My job is to tell the story, and his job is to give me the idea, to give me the insight and to take the film to a new level.

[B]

He performs pretty well, too, in the. Hey, we'll get to white guilt in a second. First, for our listeners and our viewers, if you've studied enough history, you start to see a pattern. Nations don't lose their way overnight. They drift through debt and division until one day you realize the foundations you thought were permanent were never permanent at all. Today, America is spending at levels once reserved for wartime. We've normalized deficits that would have stunned earlier generations. And policymakers now debate whether the only path forward is more intervention, more printing, more distortion. But here's the historical truth. Every society that pushed its currency beyond discipline eventually paid a price. The wise never waited for the collapse. They prepared for the correction. And that's why so many thoughtful Americans, especially those nearing retirement or in retirement, are reallocating part of their wealth into something that has outlasted every paper experiment in history, talking about physical gold not as speculation but as insulation. Reputation matters, which is why we're partnering with Allegiance Gold, a company distinguished by integrity, reliability and an A rating from the Better Business Bureau. For years, Allegiance Gold has guided Americans through transparent education and long standing relationships built on trust. And right now, they're offering, they're extending, I should say, a special liberty offer to our listeners, listeners of Victor Davis Hanson, in his own words, to help you get started with real gold, whether your funds are in a retirement account or sitting in a bank or under your mattress, even if you believe that the best time to reinforce your position is before the storm becomes obvious. Call 8447-9091-9184-4790-9191 or visit protectwithvictor.com One more time, 8447-9091-9184-4790-9191 or visit ProtectWithVictor.com History rewards those who take the long view. And we thank the good people from Allegiant Skull for sponsoring Victor Davis Hansen in his own words. We're going to take a break in a little bit, but before that, an important question. I think the key question here for our discussion with Eli Steele about his next documentary, which is, as we've mentioned, white guilt. Eli, tell us about this documentary. First, what's your gut about when it is actually going to come out? But much more importantly, what has the role of white guilt been in America the last 50 years or the last last 75 years? I mean, who's benefiting? Who's white guilt serving? Is it serving the minority community of America or is it serving white America?

[A]

To the documentary we've been working on, this film for three years is probably the hardest film I've ever had to work on because white guilt, as you know it is very abstract idea how you bring the ideas to life. How do you bring the idea, the invisible concept of race? I mean, people have a hard time understanding what white guilt is. And I'll briefly give you my dad's definition, which is I'll show you one thing. A lot of people come to me and they say, I Don't feel any white guilt. I don't have white guilt. Of course you don't. You can feel guilty about what you didn't do, but white guilt is not that. White guilt is the fallout of centuries of oppression in America. You cannot have all of that oppression and then have a reckoning in the 1960s where you come face to face with the evil, with the racial evil, and not have them fall out. And to fall out with the white people who are on the top lost the moral authority. They lost it. They lost everything. They had been spoiled. And so what they've been trying to do, especially on the left, is regain that moral authority. And that is what has been driving America. And black, you know, the black grievance monger, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and then all the way to today have been exploited. That need for innocent, and my father calls it innocent, that need for innocent moral authority. So white guilt and black power are these two sides of the same coin. And so white guilt, we're starting off as very small. Like, you know, our smaller exploitation has only grown in power. And in 2006, my father published his book White Guild, which is Mummy's best book. Well, that was done. It was 20 years ago. If you read that book, White Guild has exploded. And so when we were making this film, we were like, wait a minute, it had actually increased in evil. It's actually become even more evil than we rely. Than we rely. It's actually far more insidious than where we rely on. And so we said, we have to make a film on this. And what really woke us up was October 7th. And I mean, I'm trying to tell you a long story, but, yeah, I should tell you. All my life I've heard stories about my father, his daughter, becoming a black panther going through Algiers, basically, black panther. And so I'm thinking, like, okay, I'm hearing these stories. But then I realized, wait a minute, these stories are completely relevant because what drives white girl today is the liberation ideology, the division of people into oppressed and oppression. So when my father went to Algiers, he was literally going to the place where the ideology was taking hold. I mean, Algiers had just gone through the revolution, so the Palestinians were coming there, the Black Panthers were coming there, North Korea, everything, China, Vietnam, they were all coming there to talk about this new ideology. And so that's the October stomach happened. That really took, I think, open many people's eyes to the fact that this ideology, which had been sort of behind the scenes, had now stepped forward. And so that's what this film is largely about is how we got here and how powerful this ideology is. And not only that, how anti Western ill. His only goal is to destroy Russian civilization. And that's what we see from Iran to Hamas to what's happening on the college campuses. And so it should be believed that white guilt as a force is like the most invisible force. But it is degrees. They allow liberation ideologies to come in. It allows Marxism to come in. And people talk about empathy. You don't have empathy. That follows empathy. Without white guilt, we really don't feel empathy. We are not feeling empathy. You fear white guilt. You feel the accusation of being racial, of being on the wrong side of history. That's not empathy. That's white girl. And so people still don't quite understand that. So hopefully with this film it become more apparent.

[B]

Do you have a target date?

[A]

Yeah. So we should literally finish the final cut, which means we lost pictures. Right now it's the mute stamp, color graphics, all of that. I am hoping she maybe have them early. Shown reading in April, Ambition and then A Writer released in May.

[B]

I have a fifth question to ask you, but before we get to that in a break, man of Steel Productions. Is the website correct?

[A]

Actually, you should go to whiteguildfilm.com I need to update it, but if you go there and leave your email address, you'll be on the list.

[B]

Okay. You can also find, by the way, Eli has a substack where he writes somewhat regularly. You should check that out. That's man of. Well, you should tell us. That's man of Steel.

[A]

Man of Steel, F Stepdeck. Or you should go to manofsteelproduction.com great.

[B]

Well, we have one more question for Eli and we'll get to that when we return from these important messages. We are back with Victor Davis Hansen in his own words. This episode is appearing on coincidentally on Martin Luther King Day weekend. I do want to alert our viewers and listeners that if you go to Philanthropy Daily and I'm now the editor of Philanthropy Daily, everybody else took a step backwards. But that's for the the Home also of Civil Thoughts, which I newsletter I write every week. We have published on Friday the 16th. That would be yesterday from when this is airing a transcript of a podcast that Victor and I did in 2021 where he recounted as a young boy, he was about 10 or 11, meeting Martin Luther King at the San Francisco Grace cathedral reconsecration in 1965. And Victor talks about meeting Dr. King and what Dr. King said at that pretty Historic event. And I want to encourage folks to check that out. So anyway, now the question, which I may be repeating some of the things I said here this Monday, Eli, will be Martin Luther King Day. Our friend Victor has discussed how as a young boy, he heard King speak at the consecration. If folks, okay, I tell you where to go to read that. So King's speech and sermon that day had a theme somewhat stolen or sounds familiar from something that the U.S. army had a few years later. Be all you can be, right? Essentially, King said, if you're going to be a gardener, be the best gardener you can be. And he said plenty more in that talk sermon. His was not a message, though, of victimhood. So as someone, Eli, who has written and filmed about the state of black America and the state of all America, how it embraced or rejected America's left and its right. How embraced, I should say how embraced or rejected by America's left and its right is King's message from that 1965 sermon and his related messages that America's obligation was to live up to its promises, including that the Declaration of Independence was a promissory note. What are your thoughts on that?

[A]

Yeah, I think I heard that story. Fisher told that story, like over dinner, maybe like 10, 15 years ago. And I remember, you know, thinking, okay, what a powerful testament to what King did. I mean, here's Fisher, a barn boy, you know, 10, 11, a white boy. And King is, you know, speaky across the color line. He makes Fisher aware of the injustice, but he giving a message of greater unity. But not only that, but Fisher makes the point that King was not shamy. He was not. In other words, he was not playing off of white guilt. He was not doing that. He was not shaming. He was saying, your ancestors, the wife was still great. But we all need to live up to the principle in the Constitution. We all need to have that same shot. So that's a very unifying message. And I think on the left, you know, to kind of sum it up, I mean, they moved away from King message of be all you can be by embracing, you know, policies of dependency, by, you know, disbelieving that the black can uplift themselves by continuing to lower standard. I mean, we're taking away the fdc. I mean, what more, I mean, we literally have just been doing a steady dismantling of standards, all that. And then you have some people on the right who are now trying to deconstruct, kind of doing a very leftist thing, deconstruct the legacy of King, linking him to Communism, making him the father of dei, dei, all that stuff. But, you know, I'm not going to go into all of that. But that ignores, I think, the impact the King had on America and the world. I mean, there's a reason why he is distant. He was not a perfect man. But you cannot deny the power of that message. I mean, when my father. And my father talks about this in White Guild, when you heard King, it was like, oh, life, this 90 should be this way. Oh, this segregation that I thought would just be here for the rest of my life may actually die. And Fisher hearing a very similar message. I mean, that's a message to point us towards the white America, the America that we need to move toward. And I think, you know, we can agree that whether you're on the white or. Or on the left, we have all betrayed that message. We have betrayed it. And I think that's why my father and Fisher are very close friends. And I think. I think that's the power of King. Fisher and my father never betrayed the Best of Kings message. They never. They King. And it was all about the American principle. Are the greatest principles in the world. I mean, they come out of, you know, 3,000 years, from the Jews to the Christian to the Enlightenment to Asia region. And then we have America. And so we need to live up to that. And so I did that. The message that I got from Bishop Story and one that my father shared, one that I believe in, too.

[B]

Well, Lincoln did say we were the last great hope on earth. And I think he was right when he said that. So again, I want to. Folks, go to Philanthropy Daily if you want to read Victor's account. It's just terrific. Eli, I got to tell you, what you've done in your previous documentaries and what you're doing with White Guilt, I think is so important. You're so consequential. And I really appreciate you coming on here. I know Victor appreciated it too. I'm very much looking forward to the completed work. And I think when that happens, we will reconnect with you and the old man. If he's not taking a nap at that time, we would have him on the show and also both of you and talk about the completed production. So I wish you best of luck as you finish it. I want to thank you again for coming on. ManOfSteelProductions, White.com, whiteGuiltFilm.com check that out and PhilanthropyDaily.com to read Victor's article. Thanks, Eli, for being here.

[A]

Thank you, Jeff. Thanks to the good people really appreciate it.

[B]

Oh. Oh. It's an honor, man. It's an honor. Thanks to the Daily Signal, our great friends Rob Bluey and Tim Kennedy, and we will be back soon with another episode of Victor Davis Hanson. In his own words. Thank you and bye bye. Thank you for tuning in to the Daily Signal. Please, like, share and subscribe to be notified for more content like this.

[A]

You can also check out my own.

[B]

[e-mail] and subscribe for exclusive features in addition.