Podcast Summary: Victor Davis Hanson: In His Own Words
Episode: Biden Let ‘Immigration Activist’ Turn America Into an Open-Borders Country
Host: Jack Fowler (filling in for Victor Davis Hanson)
Guest: Mark Krikorian (Executive Director, Center for Immigration Studies)
Date Aired: January 13, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode features Jack Fowler in conversation with Mark Krikorian, a leading voice on immigration policy, while Victor Davis Hanson recovers from major surgery. The discussion centers on U.S. immigration policy—both legal and illegal—focusing on the ideological motives of recent administrations, the economic and cultural impacts of immigration, and the practical and philosophical questions around assimilation, national identity, and the oath of citizenship. The conversation also addresses student and worker visa systems, the failures of assimilation, welfare dependency, and offers cautious predictions for the future of immigration enforcement.

Key Topics & Insights

1. The Ideological Origins of Open-Border Policies

[04:24–07:38]

• Obama & Biden Administration Approaches

  • Krikorian argues that the immigration surge under both Obama and Biden isn't the result of a concrete secret scheme but is instead rooted in ideology.

    "They don't believe the American people have the right to keep anybody out... It's sort of happening. People want to come here... They don't think it’s morally defensible to say no." [Mark Krikorian, 04:53]

• Power Vacuums & Activists

  • Under Biden, the administration’s weakness allowed immigration activist groups substantial influence over policy, leading to chaotic border management.

    “Biden basically just let the activist groups on immigration run immigration policy... There was no governor... nobody in charge of anything.” [Mark Krikorian, 06:32]

2. Legal Immigration: Economic and Social Consequences

[10:38–15:24]

• Misconceptions About the Immigration Debate

  • Most immigration is legal, not illegal, and significant social/economic changes stem primarily from legal flows.

    “We’re close to 16% of our whole population is foreign-born... Most immigration is legal immigration.” [Mark Krikorian, 10:45]

• Labor Market Impacts

  • American businesses often favor immigration due to labor shortages. However, large-scale legal immigration undermines the position of less competitive U.S. workers, including “single moms, people with developmental disabilities.”

    "Large scale immigration harms the most vulnerable Americans... Those people just lose bargaining power.” [Mark Krikorian, 13:25]

• Social Dysfunction

  • Non-working men disconnected from the job market are further marginalized, fostering social issues such as crime and addiction.

    “Men not working results in all kinds of social dysfunction. Crime, drug use, deaths of despair.” [Mark Krikorian, 12:54]

3. Reforming Visas & Student Visa Policy

[18:28–24:17]

• Non-Immigrant Visas: Lack of National Interest Focus

  • The current student visa system—about one million foreign students, with 300,000 Chinese—lacks limits and undermines the taxpayer-funded mission of universities to train U.S. leadership.

    “Every university is subsidized by American taxpayers... the point is to train our elite… but universities see foreign students as a revenue source.” [Mark Krikorian, 19:13]

• Policy Recommendations

  • Krikorian advocates for national and institutional caps on foreign student numbers and stricter limits on work visas (like H-1B), restricting them to genuinely high-skill applicants only.

    “I would dramatically limit the number of foreign students allowed in and the percentage allowed into any given institution…” [Mark Krikorian, 20:47]

• Trump's Statement on Student Visas

  • Trump’s recent remark about doubling Chinese student visas is critiqued as unserious rhetoric, not real policy threat.

    “He said every foreign student should get a green card, even if they’re at a community college… complete bonkers nonsense. But it hasn’t happened and it’s not gonna happen.” [Mark Krikorian, 22:57]

4. The Oath of Citizenship and Dual Allegiance

[24:43–29:13]

• Citizenship Oath: Substance vs. Symbolism

  • The citizenship oath demands total renunciation of past allegiances, yet in practice, violations (such as dual citizenship or electoral participation abroad) bring no consequences.

    “The oath says… I entirely and absolutely renounce and abjure all allegiance… there’s no wiggle room. It’s kind of like you’re converting to another religion.” [Mark Krikorian, 25:56]

• Legal Erosion and Judicial Decisions

  • A 1967 Supreme Court decision (Afroyim v. Rusk) undermined legal consequences for breaking the oath. Krikorian calls this a missed opportunity for Congress.

    “It’s long past time for Congress to say, look... it’s a criminal offense… the point is to make that oath mean something.” [Mark Krikorian, 27:15]

• Cultural Attitudes

  • The lack of seriousness with which the oath is regarded teaches new citizens that it’s a mere formality.

    “We’re teaching people by not taking the naturalization oath seriously, that they don’t need to take it seriously.” [Mark Krikorian, 28:42]

5. Assimilation, Welfare, & Cultural Compatibility

[30:59–34:34]

• Fraud & Welfare Dependence

  • Krikorian singles out the Somali community as an example of large-scale welfare fraud, linked to insufficient assimilation.

    “Somalis just see Minnesota as prey… to help their tribes.” [Mark Krikorian, 31:23]

• Limits of Assimilation

  • With high numbers, assimilation weakens; low-number immigration allows for greater adaptation and fewer problems.

    “Assimilation of a handful… is simply going to work better than assimilation of a huge number… especially if they come from culturally more dissimilar societies.” [Mark Krikorian, 32:35]

• Selecting High-Trust Immigrants

  • Krikorian argues it’s impractical for government to select for “high-trust” immigrants—better to just limit overall numbers for manageable assimilation.

    “You think the government's gonna do a good job…? No, of course not… What they can do is say, yeah, we're only going to take a hundred thousand people this year. That's it.” [Mark Krikorian, 33:44]

6. Looking Ahead: Hopes for Immigration Reform (Prediction)

[34:58–36:21]

• Enforcing Workplace Laws
  • Krikorian predicts a real, though modest, improvement: increased enforcement at worksites to discourage illegal employment (“briefcase enforcement”—using IRS and Social Security audits).

    “What we're going to see… is significantly expanded work site enforcement… That can significantly generate self deportation, more than we've even seen over this past year.” [Mark Krikorian, 35:02]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Ideology vs. Conspiracy:

  "It's not part of a plan... they don't believe the American people have the right to keep anybody out... It's sort of happening."
  [Mark Krikorian, 04:53]

• On Labor and Marginalization:

  "That guy who is, say, a recovering addict... living off his girlfriend... is he going away if we import a Honduran to hang drywall in his stead? No, he's not going anywhere."
  [Mark Krikorian, 12:13]

• On Student Visas:

  "Universities... really don’t see themselves as part of the United States anymore... this mass access to foreign students reinforces that ‘citizens of the world’ kind of perspective."
  [Mark Krikorian, 21:22]

• On Dual Citizenship:

  "Dual citizenship is a self-evident absurdity."
  [Quoting Teddy Roosevelt, Mark Krikorian, 26:32]

• On Assimilation and Numbers:

  "Assimilation of a handful of people into a broader society is simply going to work better than assimilation of a huge number of people."
  [Mark Krikorian, 32:35]

Important Timestamps

| Segment | Topic | |---------|-------| | 04:24–07:38 | Obama/Biden administration’s motives & activist influence | | 10:38–15:24 | Real drivers and consequences of legal immigration | | 18:28–24:17 | Visa policy reform, university foreign student numbers | | 24:43–29:13 | Substance of the citizenship oath, problem of dual allegiances | | 30:59–34:34 | Welfare fraud, assimilation, and the limits of government selection | | 34:58–36:21 | Predictions: Increase in workplace immigration enforcement |

Tone & Language

The discussion is candid, direct, and somewhat skeptical, employing analogies, historical reference, and a critical, sometimes humorous, tone toward government institutions and policy inconsistencies.

Additional Resources

• cis.org – Center for Immigration Studies (Mark Krikorian’s organization)
• Parsing Immigration Policy – Mark Krikorian’s podcast

Note:
Victor Davis Hanson is recuperating from cancer surgery and appreciates listeners’ support and prayers. This episode is part of a series of guest-driven interviews during his recovery.