← Victor Davis Hanson: In His Own Words
Victor Davis Hanson: In His Own Words
Inside Washington DC: VDH Talks with Senator John Kennedy
00:49:18
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- [00:00]
Senator John Kennedy
Foreign.
- [00:12]
Victor Davis Hanson
Hello, this is Victor Davis Hansen. I'm alone today for our interview on our podcast with Senator John Kennedy. He's a two term senator from Louisiana. He's got a new book, how to Test Negative for Stupid and why Washington Never Will. I read this this week. It's a fascinating book. It's full of witticisms, firsthand knowledge of Louisiana politics and especially the U.S. senate. I thought I'd cut right to the quick. Senator, you have a distinguished law degree from the University of Virginia, another law degree from Magdalen College at Oxford. What do you make of this question we're having and you've been quite, I thought, astute about Article 6, the Supremacy Clause? It seems to me that the federal government is trying to enforce something that's pretty clearly a federal matter, that is immigration. And we've got the Chicago Police, of course not, I guess you would say, not responding to a call. We have governors and mayors who are actively urging people to resist federal law, even to mix sanctuary areas where the federal government cannot go. Where's this all going to lead if we're not careful?
- [01:30]
Senator John Kennedy
Well, first, professor, it's an honor to get to talk to you. I follow everything you, you speak and write. And my, my, my wife Becky's even a bigger fan. It is clear to me after going through four years of this with President Biden that the Democratic Party today believes that vetting people at the border is racist. I think it's prudent. But, but there's no, no doubt in my mind. Some will say it, others try to try to mask it, but that they just believe in open borders. Now that is their privilege, right, as an American to believe that. But they can't not follow the law and the law is very clear. And, and most Americans, they look at the southern border like they look at their front door. Most Americans lock their front door at night. They don't do that because they hate everybody on the outside. They do that because they love the people on the inside and they want to know who's coming in and out of their house. And so you can be both for legal immigration and against illegal immigration without being inconsistent. I've just finally concluded that the Democrats, they'd be much more honest intellectually if they just say we don't think there ought to be borders. And you see it in their attitude about sanctuary cities, what they're doing. Professor, clearly I'm legal are illegal. As you pointed out, the Supremacy Clause.
- [03:13]
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- [04:38]
Victor Davis Hanson
What do you, I mean we've had that in our past with South Carolina in 1832 and then events where states said that federal laws did not apply to them or federal property even that was precursor. Are you worried that we're getting inch by inch closer to some kind of, I don't know what would be the word. I don't think we're going to have a John Brown raid anywhere. But who knows? I mean we seem like we're getting to that. They know that what they're doing is wrong and yet they feel they have the moral high ground to go ahead and do that legal wrong.
- [05:12]
Senator John Kennedy
And, and, and you're entitled under our constitution to think the law is immoral. You still have to follow it. Yeah. And if I, if I were king for a day, I'm not and I don't aspire to be. I would do just what the Trump administration is doing. I would enforce the law. I would send in ICE agents and I would offer to these mayors and governors who clearly have a crime problem, particularly in urban areas, I would offer to also send in law enforcement personnel to help them with their crime problem. I just can't. If I were mayor of a major city today or the governor of a state with a crime problem, I would welcome additional law enforcement help. And it is a mystery to me why the Democrats won't accept it, except that anything President Trump is for there against. If President Trump came out in favor of holding, of the, of breathing to survive, the Democrats would hold their breath. I mean it's gotten that bad.
- [06:22]
Victor Davis Hanson
Are you what would happen? I mean we've had the Chicago. An order to the Chicago Police not to protect ICE agents that were blockaded. One of the people who was in that conducting that blockade had a semiautomatic rifle arrested. What happens if Mayor Johnson or someone of that extreme viewpoint actually says that I'm going to use law enforcement to stop isis? Then you've got something that we've never really encountered in our recent history, have we?
- [06:54]
Senator John Kennedy
It would be unprecedented.
- [06:55]
Victor Davis Hanson
Yes.
- [06:56]
Senator John Kennedy
And it would be foolish. It would be. I've got, I've got, I've got rocks in my driveway that are dumber than that. But if he did it, we would have to enforce federal law because federal law is under the Supremacy Clause, law that controls in their federal statutes.
- [07:15]
Victor Davis Hanson
One of the things for our audience, Senator Kennedy's latest book, how to Test Negative for Stupid, has a lot of things in it. State, federal. But one of the fascinating chapters is at the end, and it has some transcript excerpts of your questioning of federal judge nominations. And to be fair, it wasn't just people that Joe Biden nominated. There were also some Republican nominees.
- [07:44]
Senator John Kennedy
Yes.
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Victor Davis Hanson
What comes across is when you quiz them on basic things of the seven article, the complete ignorance of the Constitution. Was that always a revelation. Revelation that we're putting people in the judiciary that don't really know the Constitution.
- [08:00]
Senator John Kennedy
I was constantly shocked, and I, I tried to be bipartisan. We rejected a handful of President Trump's nominees, but not in every case. But I would say, professor, in 70% of the cases, President Biden's nominees were activists first and lawyers second. They really had no courtroom experience. They hadn't really thought about law. And I've said repeatedly to both sides, you know, being a federal judge is a serious thing. You have enormous power. And, and just because you've seen my cousin Vinnie does not qualify you to be a federal judge. For one thing, you got to know the law.
- [08:43]
Victor Davis Hanson
Yeah.
- [08:43]
Senator John Kennedy
And, and, and just basic provisions law, like the United States Constitution. It was clear to me that a lot of them had never read it.
- [08:53]
Victor Davis Hanson
You know, when I was reading your book, you were for. I was brought up in a Democratic family. My siblings are Democrats, but. And you were legal counsel for Governor Romer. Is that how you pronounce it? Romer?
- [09:06]
Senator John Kennedy
Yes, yes, yes.
- [09:07]
Victor Davis Hanson
And you've had a long service as the treasury, straight Treasurer of Louisiana. What, what do you think was a turning point in the Democratic Party that made them go. And is it with the squad, the aoc, the Jasmine Cross, this radical environmentalism, radical transgender. So, you know, these 30, 70 issues, they're on is it the hatred of Trump? Was it building under Obama? What's your diagnosis that happened to this party?
- [09:35]
Senator John Kennedy
I think it was President Obama. I think there's always been a struggle within the Democratic Party. There's one within the Republican Party, particularly within the Democratic Party, between what I call the loon wing or the socialist wing and traditional Democrats. President Clinton, rather, brought the Democratic Party back into the mainstream. Why? He was elected twice. President Obama, he moved the party further to the left. He couldn't go as far left as he wanted to, in my judgment, professor, but he moved it as far as he could. And then President Biden was elected. And, and most people, I think, who voted for President Biden thought they were getting the second coming of Bill Clinton. Instead, they got the second cousin of Bernie Sanders. Yeah. Because so many of President Obama's people were in the White House, and for many of them it was like a third term. And that's where they came up. And then they allowed the woke wing, the moon wing, if you will, of the party. You had people in the White House who felt nothing but contempt for America. They should have felt gratitude, but they felt contempt for America. You had folks advising the president who think that children should be able to change genders at recess.
- [11:09]
Victor Davis Hanson
Yeah.
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Senator John Kennedy
It was just extraordinary. And that's one of the reasons the Democrats lost the election.
- [11:16]
Victor Davis Hanson
Sort of like the third term that Obama wanted to push that agenda without his fingerprints on it. And that's what he did. We're talking to Senator Kennedy, how to Test Negative for stupid. It's a brand new book subtitle and why Washington Never Will. In your book, you have kind of a chilling anecdote about you were invited into the White House to talk to Joe Biden. His aides wanted you, kind of grabbed your arm and wanted you out, but you cleverly just said, I want. When he asked you, you want to see the Cabinet room that you, you were able to extend that visit to 30 or 40 minutes, but you noticed at that time things that bothered you about his physical or mental capacity. And was it your impression that the people around him knew as well as you did from that what was going on?
- [12:07]
Senator John Kennedy
Oh, yes. I met with President Biden the first, during the, midway through his first term, our first year, rather, I was probably the only Republican, and very few Democrats for that matter, who ever spent more than five minutes with the president. I spent about 40 minutes with him at a, at a bipartisan bill signing. And it was just he and I, and I purposely stayed ignoring instructions from staff to Lee Because I wanted to get a firsthand look at him. He was very affable. He was very old. We all age differently, Professor. President Biden was, he was old for his years. I got the impression that the White House staff was, and remember this was early in his first year, was maybe getting four or five hours worth of week worth of work out of him a day. He impressed me. He was at this stage in life where he just wanted to sit around and tell war stories, which he did to me and talk about the good old days and after he was finished that he wanted a cup of hot soup and an early bedtime. So when you and I could. Yeah, I was just going to say I could see the beginnings of the neurodegenerative disease at that point.
- [13:29]
Victor Davis Hanson
And you were, I think you mentioned your book. You were not surprised or you thought when she was nominated, when she took over, was anointed, that, that you were, after that meeting, you were not sure that he was going to be able to continue it a second term, right?
- [13:45]
Senator John Kennedy
I didn't think he could. Well, based on my one meeting with him and my observations as the years went by, it was clear that the president could not have served a second term. And it took embarrassing himself in front of the American people to convince his family and the White House staff. The White House staff deserves a lot of blame for this because they hid it all.
- [14:13]
Victor Davis Hanson
What do you, when we talk about the auto pen scandal and who do you think was, who do you think? Was there a person? Was it Joe Biden, was it Ron Clinton, who's running the country? Did you ever, did we ever figure that out?
- [14:27]
Senator John Kennedy
We'll never, probably never know. I think it was on a day to day basis. I think the first Lady, First Lady Biden had a lot of influence. I think Mr. Hunter Biden did, but I think he had an inner circle. A lot of them were President Obama holdovers and they were calling a lot of the shots day to day. And my people back home in Louisiana would ask me all the time, professor, they'd say, who is really the president? Because we see President Biden on TV talking like he's from outer space, who's really doing the job? And I would always tell them, whoever has control of that teleprompter. And I think on a day to day basis, that was the five or six people that shielded him from the rest of the staff in the world. And of course the first lady knew about it and, And I think Mr. Hunter Biden knew about it.
- [15:18]
Victor Davis Hanson
You, you have some really good vignettes about President Trump. And while, you know, you don't agree on everything, but you agree on most things. And, and maybe I think you mentioned once or twice about his tweeting. We've all mentioned that. But it seems that what comes across in the book is that you do find a lot of commonality with this candor. You're candid and you appreciate that. Is that.
- [15:42]
Senator John Kennedy
Yes.
- [15:42]
Victor Davis Hanson
I think it's more than just the MAGA agenda, isn't it? It's somebody that people feel is going to tell us the truth, whether we like it or not or whether it's nice to.
- [15:50]
Senator John Kennedy
Well, first, I don't think we've had a president with the energy, and I can. With this president. He really doesn't sleep. I also don't think we've ever had a president this accessible. If I called president, I've got a cell phone right here on my, on my, my phone. If I called him today, right now, and he could take the call, he'd take it. And if he didn't, I'd leave a message and he would call me back within six hours. And he straight up, what you see is what you get. Now, the President lives loudly. And I told him one time, I said, Mr. President, I've, I've observed that you grow anxious when you have an unexpressed thought. And he does. He has no filter.
- [16:38]
Victor Davis Hanson
No.
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Senator John Kennedy
So on the one hand, the transparency is refreshing. On the other hand, when you're President of the United States, it can get you in a lot of trouble, but it's not going to change. It is what it is. You know where he stands.
- [16:52]
Victor Davis Hanson
One thing, though, that came and I found that to be true in the few times I've talked about. I don't. I would, you would think, given his tweet, he watched.
- [17:00]
Senator John Kennedy
He watches you. I've heard him mention you, but I.
- [17:04]
Victor Davis Hanson
Would, you would think that he would be vindictive, but when you disagreed with him in your book, you said, I can't do that. He would say, fine. And he, and he respected that. He didn't come and he didn't say, go get Kennedy for that.
- [17:16]
Senator John Kennedy
No, he had a bill. I posed it. The press asked me about it, how to make it better. I was being a smart aleck and I said, the only way I know how to approve, to improve this bill is with a shredder. And of course, the White House heard about it and the President called me and he, he was laughing. He wasn't mad. He said, kelly wants, like, my bill. And, and I Told him, and we talked about it, said, okay. He said, well, you know, just don't go around telling people you want to shred my bill and we'll have to buy a little bit more. And I voted against the bill and the bill passed. And I, that was, I can tell you, many other stories that ended the same way. So people who say they have a hard time working with President Trump, that's not the, that's not the Trump I.
- [18:00]
Victor Davis Hanson
Know when he had a nominee that, that you asked a series of questions that he was clearly unqualified and hasn't called up. And I think you said in the book, he said, what should I do? And you said, drop it, drop him. And he did.
- [18:14]
Senator John Kennedy
Yeah, we, he had a nominee for the federal bench, and I worked him over and he was a bright young man, but he had no experience and he didn't belong on the federal bench. And the next morning I was in New Orleans, I'd flown home and, and I got a phone call from the White House and I said, oh, it's going to be the President. I'm going to take my whipping. He's going to call and shoot me out. And he came along, he said, kennedy? I said, yes, sir. He said, he said, did I interview this guy? And I said, no, Mr. President, your attorneys did. He said, man, he, he, he, he's not ready, is he? I said, no, sir. And he said, what should I do? I said, Mr. President, he's not going to be confirmed. He's going to twist in the wind, pull him down, put him out of his misery. Maybe someday he'll, he'll be ready. And Trump was cool about it. And I remember at the end of it, professor, he said, now look, if you, if you see any of these other guys like this that my staff sends over there and you think they're chuckle, his, my word, not the President's, he said, call me, will you? I mean, let me know what's going on because I can't watch everybody all of the time. And it was very cordial.
- [19:21]
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- [20:47]
Senator John Kennedy
Wow.
- [20:47]
Victor Davis Hanson
We're talking to Senator John Kennedy. He's got a new book coming out. I guess it's out now, isn't it, Senator?
- [20:53]
Senator John Kennedy
Yeah, it was out Tuesday.
- [20:54]
Victor Davis Hanson
Tuesday today, how to how to Test Negative for Stupid why Washington Never Will. We're going to be right back. We're going to hear from some people. And we're back. We're still talking with John Kennedy. And I had a couple of questions. In the book, you really make a good case for the collegiality in one hand of the Senate and you get along with people. There's a nice kind of it's not nice, but when Patrick Leahy, I think, quite unjustly said that you're quite questioning was a little bit racist and then you, you punch back, but you, you each had, there was certain roles of decorum. But it, it doesn't seem, it seems like these people on the other side of the aisle from you, and you've mentioned this in the, in the popular press the last week, they really do feel hot breath on their neck from this squad and aoc, how's that? What do you think's going to work out with what's going to happen? I mean, are they when you talk to these people, are they scared of these people or.
- [21:53]
Senator John Kennedy
Oh, yes. Well, I mean, it is clear that there is a socialist wing, a Bolshevik wing, a loon wing, as I call it sometimes of the Democratic Party. And it is in ascendancy and it is uncontrolled. And its leader, frankly, is not Senator Schumer or Minority Leader Jeffrey, it's Congresswoman Ocasio Cortez. That's clear. And a lot of, in my opinion of what Senator Schumer is doing in the Senate by insisting on the shutdown, he wants the loon wing, led by the congresswoman, to love him. They don't even like him. And for his own politics back home, he wants them to love him. They never will. And most of the other Democrats, not all of them, but most of the other Democrats in the Senate, they know better about the shutdown, but they're scared of the loon wing. I mean, the socialist wing of the party is about to elect a socialist mayor of New York. I never thought I'd see that in my lifetime.
- [23:00]
Victor Davis Hanson
Why do you think they're not confident that? When they looked at the 2024 election and they looked at these key issues on the economy and energy, transgenderism, the border, they were on the 30% side.
- [23:14]
Senator John Kennedy
Yeah.
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Victor Davis Hanson
Why doesn't somebody in the party say, like Clinton did after the McGovern, you know, 72 McGovern went this way. He destroyed the party. It took him 20 years, basically, besides the Carter interlude, to come back. But why, why can't some people say, we can articulate a Clintonian, you know, center and we can win in a general election? They don't. They don't have the confidence. They just.
- [23:38]
Senator John Kennedy
They're scared. If I were advising the Democratic Party, I'm not, of course, don't want to, but I would call Bill Clinton and I would say, help us figure out how to become more commonsensical and to divorce ourselves from. From the moon wing that hates George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and Dr. Seuss and Mr. Potato Head because they think they're all racist. And some Democrats are talking about that. Rahm Emanuel, for one. But the socialist wing of the Democratic Party is extraordinarily, extraordinarily well organized. They're very active on social media. They're very organized and active in terms of personal, physical protests. And they're constantly. They're all over the Democratic senators like a bad rash, just all over them. And, and the Democratic senators are scared.
- [24:41]
Victor Davis Hanson
They have a lot of money, don't they?
- [24:43]
Senator John Kennedy
And they have enormous amount of money. We'll never know where they're getting all that money, but they do.
- [24:49]
Victor Davis Hanson
Yeah.
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Senator John Kennedy
And I have many friends. Well, I get along with all of my colleagues in the Senate. I know many Democrats who don't believe in all this stuff, but they're. They're scared to say anything. And, And Chuck, Senator Schumer is petrified.
- [25:09]
Victor Davis Hanson
You. In the book, you say you haven't. In passing, you. You mentioned you don't agree with him on a lot of things, but you did develop a respect for John Fetterman, didn't you?
- [25:19]
Senator John Kennedy
Yes, I do. I'm like John. He's, he's breathtakingly candid. He understands that candor is a mighty weapon. He, he understands that the only thing that can make everybody of you is alcohol. You got to stand for something. And he does. I have. I had a lot of respect for Pat Leahy. You mentioned Senator Leahy. We didn't agree on much, but I don't hate anybody. I don't. I. When I say my prayers, I asked God, don't let me hate you.
- [25:48]
Victor Davis Hanson
Think, will he be primary, do you think?
- [25:52]
Senator John Kennedy
Probably. It's interesting if you look at Senator Fetterman's poll numbers statewide in Pennsylvania, he has like a 60 or 70% approval rate, but among Democrats, I think he's underwater so. Because the loon wing of his party is targeting him and I'm sure they'll take a run at him. John will beat him if he wants to run again. I'm not, I don't know whether he will or won't. I haven't asked him about him, but, but I think he's, I think he's been good for his party to point out the obvious sometimes, and he's been good for the country. And I believe in the two party system. I think competition makes us all better.
- [26:33]
Victor Davis Hanson
Yeah, I do too. What, what made you want to write this book at this particular point?
- [26:40]
Senator John Kennedy
I decided about a year ago and I wrote it myself. I sat down at my kitchen table at all with a handheld Dictaphone and started and then I got a transcript and edited and edited and edited. And I had a good editor at Harper Commons, but I did. Most of it was mine. It's not a policy book per se, it's a storybook. I use stories to make points about policy and I use those stories to try to explain to the American people what the United States Senate is really like. To explain to them why in Washington D.C. normal is just a setting on the closed dryer, why Washington is like it is. But to help them understand why it doesn't have to be that way. If we had a return to just some basic common sense, the, the whole, the whole world would be better off not just washing, but, but the country.
- [27:38]
Victor Davis Hanson
It seems like a, a lot of what comes through the book is that you had this long career as a state servant elected and appointed and kind of a legal advisor to the governor, both Democrat and Republican, and you kind of charted a conservative, but not, you know, crazy reaction, but you were able to navigate and get along with everybody. And you got a really fascinating episode About David Duke, where you opposed him and you kind of, you kind of described his makeover, how phony it was. You want to tell us about that?
- [28:15]
Senator John Kennedy
Yeah. In my, in my election, we have an open primary in Louisiana. I had. There were 26 candidates, 25 and me. And one of them was the David Duke. And he, he polled high enough in the last poll to get on TV with us in a live debate. And of course, he didn't follow any of the rules. He's, he's very bright, but. But he's, he's got a black heart.
- [28:41]
Victor Davis Hanson
Yeah.
- [28:42]
Senator John Kennedy
And I was able to get under his skin because he'd been to federal prison. And instead of calling him Mr. Duke or David, when it was my turn to talk to him, I would, I would call him by his federal prison number. I would say Federal prison number. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. And he was furious. He was absolutely furious. And that helped a lot in debate. But he lost. American people or the people, Louisiana rather rejected him. And I was very proud of my people.
- [29:11]
Victor Davis Hanson
I think it comes through. Also, you were very proud of your parents. Your father came from the working class in Oklahoma and your mother was sort of an established family, well to do and family in Louisiana. And you have two brothers. Ones I was interesting because I'd had a collapsed lung the last month. And you're one of your brothers a pulmonologist and the other is a cardiologist.
- [29:33]
Senator John Kennedy
Yes.
- [29:33]
Victor Davis Hanson
And then you have another brother who's an entrepreneur or.
- [29:36]
Senator John Kennedy
Yes. And he's in commercial and political advertising.
- [29:38]
Victor Davis Hanson
So. Yeah.
- [29:39]
Senator John Kennedy
My, My dad was from A Depression family, eight brothers and sisters. Left home when he was 15, worked his way through high school and college as a janitor. Got a degree in petroleum engineering from Oklahoma, came to Louisiana, met my mother. But in my household, education was drummed into us from day one between my three brothers. And I think we have, I don't know, 11 degrees. It was just. And I don't know how my parents did it, and four of us in school at one time, but education, it's, it's an equalizer. It's, it's, it's, it's like the, the key. I mean, I'm, I'm a big believer in it.
- [30:26]
Victor Davis Hanson
I am, too. When I came home, I had a PhD in classical languages at 25 and 1. My older brother said, that's very impressive. But as Samuel Johnson said, so is a dog that dances on two legs. We just tell me what the, what the purpose is. So that was.
- [30:43]
Senator John Kennedy
Well, I happen to believe to Each his own. But I believe in a classic education. I do too, whether it leads to a job or not. My degree was undergrad was philosophy, economics and political Science. Vanderbilt taught me how to think and it taught me to appreciate literature and it taught me how to critically analyze other points of view. And I think that is just as important, if not more so than learning a trade.
- [31:12]
Victor Davis Hanson
It seems like it was very influential on you. You studied with a lot of great English jurisprudence scholars and you were there in Modelin College. And it reminded me when Tolkien, the Lord of the Rings author, wrote his. When there were biographies about him. He was very impressed by people from Tennessee and southerners who came. Came into Oxford and even some people suggested that the idea of hobbits not wearing shoes came from a Tennessee person that came. Yeah, but you did, you have. Were you unique as a Southern, Southern student at Oxford or.
- [31:49]
Senator John Kennedy
Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yes. Oh yes. You, you know how Oxford works. I mean I had Sir Rupert Cross as a evidence Professor, Sir John H.C. morris for conflicts of Laws. My largest class was I think four people and, and a professor. So you can't hide. And it's, it's extraordinarily demanding. And there's one exam at the end, that's it, a three hour exam in each subject and you either give an A called an Alpha, a B called a Beta, or you failed. There was no. And they weren't fooling around. One of my classmates was a very well known international lawyer with an established law firm from Australia and he was taking the same degree on leave of absence from his firm. He failed and he had to do it over. But I loved it. I love the competition. I love to see another view of higher education. I think Oxford's the greatest university in the world. It's not for everyone because it's an elitist perspective. I mean the bright, only the brightest kids can, can go to Oxford. It's not exactly a slice of life, but we have some institutions like that in America as well.
- [33:14]
Victor Davis Hanson
Yeah, I was really struck because I grew up on a farm, I'm speaking from a farm. And it's kind of when you're rural you kind of have an impression. And I used, I've spoken at Cambridge and Oxford, but I remember I stayed at Cambridge and for three or four days and gave lectures. But your attitude was a very. I found it really constructive because a lot of Americans go over there, maybe from my background, with a chip on your shoulder or they think they're. But your attitude was sort of. What I discovered was very Helpful for me, too, that you, you, anything that was jarring or different was minimalist or insignificant, given to the, the great advantages of the learning and all of this exposure. And I think that was a really positive view you had.
- [34:01]
Senator John Kennedy
It humbled me. It humbled me. I mean, I was intimidated. My, my, I lived in the college and, and the young man, I was taking a graduate degree, but a young man that lived next door was an undergraduate. He spoke five languages and he was a first year student. And, and I mean, this kid could spot me 60 IQ points. He was teaching himself Mandarin just on his own, just brilliant. And I was around kids, students like that and professors and it was humbling. Believe me.
- [34:39]
Victor Davis Hanson
When you, when you look at where we are now and this, I guess we call it, this counter revolution that Trump is trying to do in four years, and you look at the unique nature of the United States Constitution, you look at our energy, our farming, our military, are you confident that we're sort of in a third century or it's a renaissance coming. Are you a pessimist, optimist or neutral about what's going on?
- [35:09]
Senator John Kennedy
Well, I'm an optimist now. I'm an optimist who worries sometimes. I'm a paranoid optimist. But I do believe that America's future can be better than our present or our past. And I've always believed we're only as, as good as our dreams and we're only as valuable as our children. But I'm not going to bubble wrap it. The water in Washington, D.C. is not going to clear up until we get the pigs out of the creek. I mean, you just take the FBI and the Justice Department, there's some good people there. But there were, there, there were and probably still are some very bad actors there who, who think they're smarter and more virtuous than the American people and they're going to impose, if they can get away with it, their political beliefs on everybody else. You had a very, that kind of power is dangerous.
- [36:14]
Victor Davis Hanson
We're going to be right back with Senator Kennedy and his new book, how to Test Negative for Stupid. We'll be back in a second. We're back with Senator Kennedy. You had a really, I thought, fair and fascinating exchange with Cash Patel on the confirmation hearing and you expressed real confidence in him. Were you shocked when the FBI released that nine senators were being surveilled? I didn't. Well, what was that all about? Was it.
- [36:46]
Senator John Kennedy
We had a, we had a. Attorney General Bondi before us today in Judiciary Committee. Professor she didn't know about it. In fact, Chairman Grassley found out about it from a whistleblower. They had hidden the documentation, apparently. Mr. Smith, Jack Smith, the special counsel, went to the telephone companies and got them to turn over the phone records for eight sitting United States Senators. We don't know how. We don't know why the telephone companies cooperated with Mr. Smith. We don't know if Mayor Garland knew about it. I'm not saying he did or did. We don't know if FBI Director Wright knew about it. We don't know if the White House know about it, but by God, we're going to find out. And this, this, this kind of weaponizing of the FBI and the Justice Department has just got to stop. And it, when I found out about it, I heard about it on the news and I said, this is satire. Can't be true.
- [37:56]
Victor Davis Hanson
I didn't believe it either.
- [37:57]
Senator John Kennedy
Can't. Can't be true. It took my breath away.
- [38:01]
Victor Davis Hanson
Yeah.
- [38:02]
Senator John Kennedy
And, and I'm, I'm. Now the FBI's investigating, but I made it clear in committee today. I'm not going to sit here and wait 24 months for them to, to issue a statement. I want to hold hearings. I want to get Jack Smith in front of the Judiciary Committee. I want Merrick Garland to come in front of the committee. I want Chris Wray in front of the committee. I want to know who authorized this fishing expedition for eight Republican senators and what the basis of. Of it was and why they did it and how they picked these senators and why didn't they tell the senators and why did the telephone companies just, just go along? This, this stuff is serious as four heart attacks and a stroke.
- [38:49]
Victor Davis Hanson
Yeah.
- [38:50]
Senator John Kennedy
And I'm going to get to the bottom of it.
- [38:52]
Victor Davis Hanson
We'd seen a little bit of it with Obama when he surveilled. You remember the phone records of AP reporters?
- [38:57]
Senator John Kennedy
Oh, yes.
- [38:58]
Victor Davis Hanson
And then we had John Brennan lie to the Senate and say that the CIA had not surveilled the staff computers of Senate aides. And then he apologized, I guess, for perjuring himself. We saw it a little bit with John Brennan when he said the nsa, James Clapper when he said the NSA is not surveilling Americans. And then he said he gave the least on truth. But we've never seen anything, I don't think, of this magnitude. I was shocked when we had these earlier revelations that Comey and Clapper and Brennan were in the White House and they were basically told by the outgoing Obama that your subordinate's assessment that there Wasn't collusion, wasn't good enough. And you go back and then you try to. But this is, this is, this is a whole new level. That's what's scary about it.
- [39:49]
Senator John Kennedy
Well, the gets just keep on coming. I mean, it just keep on coming. It's breathtaking to me. The FBI actually issued a memo to have the FBI target Catholics, for example, based on pressure that the, the teachers unions put on the White House, the FBI and the Justice Department decided to target parents at school board meetings. I mean, and all of this, most of this stuff came out through a whistleblower. We don't know what else is over there.
- [40:28]
Victor Davis Hanson
How do you stop it? I mean, during Watergate, they went after. They. I think they indicted 30 people. But I don't see all these people being indicted, do you?
- [40:37]
Senator John Kennedy
Well, no, but Mr. Comey, of course has. Yeah, but if I were Mr. Jack Smith and I don't have any inside information, but if I were he, I would, I'd go, I'd go call 1-800-Lawyer right now. I'd lawyer up because this is serious as an aneurysm. I mean, he went. I don't think he had a federal court order either, but I think. I don't know, but he, Maybe he did, but he went and got the phone records of 8, not 1, not 3, 8 active sitting United States senators. And the phone companies better lawyer up, too. They just handed over the records. They didn't try to quash. If he had a subpoena, I would have thought that the general counsel to the phone companies would have said, look, we're not going to turn these records over unless a judge tells us file. I'm going to file a motion to quash the spina. They didn't do that. They just handed it over, just vomited it for they, they. They're going to have to answer some questions, too. And my guess is I don't know for a fact, but these eight senators, they're going to file civil lawsuits against everybody involved, including the phone companies.
- [41:53]
Victor Davis Hanson
I hope so. You have in, in the book. And we're getting to the end of our interview because I know that the senator's time is precious, but you have a lot of respect for Senator Grassley, the chairman, don't you? Yes, that came through. I have a lot of affinity because I'm a, I was a farmer as well as he was.
- [42:10]
Senator John Kennedy
But Grassley is, he's tough. One of the most unusual people in a, in a good way I've ever met. Rock solid, just loves his country loves his state. He's Mr. I mean whistleblowers. If you'll notice, it's always Chuck Grassley releasing the whistleblower reports. That's because they trust him. They know that he won't double cross him. People can go to him and tell him the truth. I don't know how many terms Chuck has been. Chuck's 92. He's probably really physically about 60. He, I wouldn't do a push up contest with him. He's, he's been around forever. I kid him. I say your first car, Chuck was a chariot. And he just laughs. But he, he's my favorite senator.
- [43:00]
Victor Davis Hanson
Do you think that's one of Trump's strengths, that he has 10 or 15 senators that he can call and give good advice? It seems like that's one of your themes in your book. You speak very highly of a close circle of colleagues that yes, have chuckled.
- [43:15]
Senator John Kennedy
And Chuck is one and he will tell the President the truth. The president criticized Chuck over the blue slip and judiciary and Chuck didn't miss a beat. He bit him right back. He bit the president right back. And, and Chuck was, Chuck was offended and he went right on social media and bit him right back. And the president's president's left him alone since then. And I told the president at the time, I said, you don't want to mess with grass. You just don't want to do it. You know, he's respected by everyone and you'll never beat him.
- [43:53]
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- [45:21]
Victor Davis Hanson
We'Re with Senator John Kennedy and he's got a fascinating book about his life before politics, in politics and at the federal level, how to Test Negative for Stupid why Washington Never Will. It's out this week. Final question. Senator.
- [45:39]
Senator John Kennedy
Yes, Professional.
- [45:40]
Victor Davis Hanson
We've got about a year for the midterms. I know all these. There's all these. We've made enormous progress on the conservative side on the border, I think on crime, on the social, cultural. But traditionally the economy will adjudicate whether and the odds are against the end party. They usually lose that first midterm of administration. But are you hopeful, cautiously optimistic that you guys can retain the House or pick up a few seats and maybe even the Senate?
- [46:10]
Senator John Kennedy
Yes, and I'm going to spend all my time, I'm not up for reelection, but all my time helping my colleagues. Look, I've told this to the president. I think he beat Vice President Harris because people looked at the Trump Harris choice and for them it was a choice between hope and more hurt. And by hope I mean they thought the president, in addition to the border and other things he's done, would, would, would help the economy do better. The president has done many things to help the economy, but he doesn't talk enough about. Professor and I've told him that if I were the president, I would go ask for 30 minutes or maybe an hour from television and it would be me and the camera and I would talk straight up to the American people about why inflation is better, what my plan is to get it down, how I'm getting rid of regulations to lower the cost of goods and services, what I think the future holds for unemployment. And just talk to them straight up.
- [47:11]
Victor Davis Hanson
Now.
- [47:12]
Senator John Kennedy
He doesn't like to talk about the economy for whatever reason, but he really has a strong case to make and it sure would help us in the midterms.
- [47:22]
Victor Davis Hanson
Yeah, I think he would. Especially the things that the energy secretary and Interior are doing on energy development. And I'd like to know this fantastic sum of 10 to 15 trillion dollars. I want to know if it's going to be actualized, who's are they going to come through? But it seems that they did that would be unprecedented, that much. Trillions of dollars in foreign investment with job creation. I don't know why we're not talking about that and trying to audit.
- [47:49]
Senator John Kennedy
We should be what they're doing in every agency, professor, in terms of rolling back rules and regulations and attacking them under the Major Question Doctrine. They're not talking about, but I'm very well aware of it. And it's breathtaking in scope without. The President needs to talk about it more.
- [48:08]
Victor Davis Hanson
Yeah, he does. Final. How's the Senate going to look a year from now? Are you caught up?
- [48:13]
Senator John Kennedy
I think we'll hold our majority. Look, we've got some tough races.
- [48:17]
Victor Davis Hanson
Yeah.
- [48:18]
Senator John Kennedy
North Carolina, Ohio, Michigan, New Hampshire, Georgia, Texas. Is. Is. We've got three strong candidates there, but I think we'll hold our majority. The House. I'm the wrong person to ask. Mike Johnson is a good friend of mine. Mike understands the House. He tells me we'll be okay there. It'll be close, though. Yeah, but. But I can say I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who worries.
- [48:47]
Victor Davis Hanson
I do, too. Thank you very much, Senator. It's been fascinating. I urge everybody and buy this book. You'll like reading it. It's a quick read. It's fascinating, and you'll get to know why people admire John Kennedy so much. Thank you so much.
- [49:02]
Senator John Kennedy
It's been an honor, Professor. Thank you.
- [49:04]
Victor Davis Hanson
Thank you.
- [49:06]
Senator John Kennedy
Bye. Bye.