← Victor Davis Hanson: In His Own Words
Victor Davis Hanson: In His Own Words
Life’s Not Perfect. Transitioning to a Boy Won’t Make It Better | Stella O'Malley
00:56:39
Medicine is not the answer to most problems, especially when it comes to gender dysphoria.
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- [00:02]
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- [00:42]
Stella O'Malley
Our biggest and strongest push is you don't need to medicalize just because you want to be a boy. I want to be rich. I want to be gorgeous. I want to be lots of things. Sometimes you have to deal with the limitations in life. Sometimes you have to deal with. You won't always get what you want and that's okay. You might be very lone. We can help with that. You might be autistic. We can help with that. Lots of things we can help with. You don't have to try and change to be a boy. It won't necessarily make you happy. And the stats suggest that you're going to have higher levels of psychiatric admission, higher levels of mental health issues such as anxiety, depression, more likely for unemployment, more likely for prison. The long term outcomes of medical transition are not good and so you'd be better off trying to resolve and accept your own body foreign.
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Jack Fowler
Well, hello ladies and hello gentlemen and welcome to a special edition of Victor Davis Hansen In His Own Words. I'm Jack Fowler. I'm recording on Friday the 20th and this episode will be up on Saturday the 21st. And Victor is still recovering from his medical issues and surgeries. And we try to get. Not only we try, we do have some significant tremendous pinch hitters to do these special episodes. And today I have Stella o' Malley, who's kind of a rock star in the whole world of transition, detransition, et cetera. I'm going to read a bio for you here in a minute folks, so you get through my babbling and we're going to try to ask some fundamental questions about these issues. So Stella, I'm so appreciative that you've agreed to join us today. Stella's a psychother, therapist, best selling author, public speaker, parent with extensive experience in counseling and psychotherapy. She's originally from Dublin, which now lives in rural England. England. Oh, sorry don't shoot me. Ireland. Oh my gosh, what did I say? Four centuries. Four centuries ago, maybe. Ireland. With her husband and her two children. Her latest book is When Kids say they Are Trans, which she co authored with fellow therapists Sasha Ayad and Lisa Marchiano. The book offers a resource for parents who want their children to flourish but do not believe that hasty medicalization is the best way to ensure long term health and well being. She's the founder and the executive director of genspect and I was at a genspect gathering in Washington last week. It's an international organization that advocates for a healthy approach to sex and gender. She's also the founder director of the Gender Dysphoria Support Network and she's a clinical advisor on the Clinical Advisory Network on Sex and Gender and also a founding member of Thoughtful Therapists. Before Stella, I babble a little more. Would you just mind quickly telling us what is genspect?
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Stella O'Malley
Genspect is an organization that promotes a non medicalized approach to sex and gender so that there is no to show the world and to raise public awareness that there's no need to medicalize people's identities. We never did it in vast numbers and now that it's being done, people are transitioning. We're realizing that actually it's a very unhealthy intervention. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't have good long term outcomes. And so awareness around that.
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Jack Fowler
Well, here's how we're going to proceed here today, Stella. I'm assuming a basic perspective of the average listener, the typical listener, viewer of this, of this podcast, intelligent people who are well aware that there is transition, who know now that there's an emerging detransitioning movement. I don't even want to call it a movement, but it's happening. Who are listeners and viewers. They're concerned or interested or even curious about the who's, what's whys, where's of this intense issue and you are very steeped in it. And the intricacies and the dynamics and the components, they're political, they're biological, medical, cultural, scientific, et cetera. So we yearn. I think that's fair to say I do and I think our listeners do, for an informed overview and you're just the person to provide it. And we've gone through this transition rage. I don't think necessarily know that it's over. But you know, we've been overwhelmed by this and now we're seeing this detransition reaction or reality. So I've got several broad questions to ask you about all this and I'm going to do that. I'm actually going to do that when I come back from these important messages.
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Jack Fowler
Future Podcasts we are back with Victor Davis Hansen in his own words, pinch hitting today. Stella o' Malley. Stella, thanks again for being here. So we're going to largely focus our conversation or your wisdom sharing on detransitioning, but let's start at the beginning. There's been an eruption in transitioning young boys, young girls, and not only young, I know. I mean, there are many older adults do this also who claim they were born in the wrong body and bodies. And with medical professionals giving these youths powerful drugs and then performing drastic surgeries to undo, I'll say, what God has done, what the chromosomes say. So why? What happened? What took hold of our society, our medical profession, our parents, some of them anyway, our education officials, to create this trend, this rage, this crisis, you call it what you will, to passionately facilitate, encourage and champion young men and women transitioning. They turned it into a civil right and a political priority. What happened?
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Stella O'Malley
It's fascinating. It's probably the most common question I get asked and I've studied it as a result quite extensively. You could say it was a perfect storm and a perfect storm of a few different factors. But for example, there was a rise in medicalization and diagnosis of children in a way that like was unheard of 30 years ago. Children were being medicalized if they had what one could describe as mild distress or moderate to mild distress, and they were diagnosed and medicalized faster these days. So that was happening at the very same time as that there was the gay rights movement arguably achieved what the gay rights movement needed to achieve, I. E. They got gay marriage in most places in the Western world, they got what they wanted, but they still wanted, as any ngo, non governmental organization will want. They want to keep their funding. And to keep their funding they had to broaden their base. And to broaden their base, they brought in the T into their into the lesbian gay rights movement. Why? Because they wanted to keep going these were big, lucrative organizations. The AIDS crisis had come and gone, but they got a lot of funding from it and they got their marriage. You know, they got what they needed to get. So they were kind of looking in a way for a cause, and they found a cause. And at the same time. So it was a perfect summer of quite a few different events. At the same time, there was also the rise in certain aspects of academia. Academia has really lost a lot of its. What would I call it, reliability. In the last 20, 30 years, there's been a huge rise in academia. An awful lot more research has been carried out, but a lot of it isn't as high quality as it would have been. And, you know, subject or topics such as feminism, queer studies, gender studies, women's studies, they again, were looking for ever more interesting angles on how to attract people into their base, broaden their base. And queer theory kind of slotted into this postmodern concept, which was rampant individualism of, who are you to tell me who I am? It's all about me. I know me. Everything is subjective. So if I say I want to medically transition, grow a third arm, you know, try and live forever if I want to do it, who are you to tell me not. With that came this kind of extraordinary. This is the last factor in this perfect storm. Extraordinary rise in kind of consumer health care, where a lot of medical interventions now are elective and they can be bought. So surrogacy would be another one. Assisted dying, Arguably these are called healthcare, but they're not necessarily healthcare. They're arguably people buying medical interventions. Cosmetic surgery, obviously, is one of them. So you put all of that together and I've studied it. I'm just finished my PhD in this, so I've really studied where it all came from. You realize, wow, mad as it is, it does end up with people wanting the medical transition. That is, I'll do what I want. I'll be who I want. If I want to be a boy, I can be a boy. Who are you to say, I can't be? And I can buy it. Thank you very much.
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Jack Fowler
Just a quick side question on this. You mentioned the gay rights movement funding. There is a split in the gay rights movement itself over this, isn't there? Like, I may be gay, but I am not advocating for this. Why is this part of our cause now?
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Stella O'Malley
Yeah, because a lot of the gay rights movement, they just wanted to be left alone. Let's do whatever we want to do in bed. But, like, not bring it into our work, not bring it into our life. That was the kind of thrust of the gay rights movement. But there was a new kind of thrust of. And now we want more I. E. We want, you know, the pride marches. We want total, not only acceptance, we want massive levels of support and celebration. So there is a split in the, in the people who just want to be left alone. Arguably the older generations who are like I just want to fall in love and. And then there's another kind of identity based person who wants their identity to be recognized. And part of that academia is the rise in the emphasis of identity. Arguably, maybe in a post religious age people don't have such strong identities. Maybe as well. In the US There was always a kind of I'm Irish American, I'm German American. So the lack of identity that people have now that a lot of people have lost religion, religion as well. I think there was a space for people to identify as things that makes
- [12:11]
Jack Fowler
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Stella O'Malley
No, it's right on target because there's an striking similarity among this cohort. Striking similarity of certain traits. Probably the most common trait that one would notice is autistic traits and the elevated proportion of young people seeking transition who are also autistic. It's extraordinary. It depends on the clinic. It might be 70% in one place, 48% in another, beyond 70% in another. And then there are other. They often have other diagnosis, like ADHD is very high as well, and anxiety eating disorders. This is a highly vulnerable cohort. These are not kids who are happy and then suddenly decide to identify as trans. These were generally lonely. They were very often very lonely. They'd often had a trauma that often had some sort of bullying that some sort of left their crowd. So they were lonely. Autistic, often. A lot of them, what would I call it, an elevated proportion of them are same sex attracted, not all of them. So a lot of them are kind of little, let's say little tomboy lesbian who doesn't want to be a lesbian or, you know what I mean, and would rather just be a boy. And she believes in this extraordinary new culture that she could be a boy just by taking some medication. So that's an issue as well. But more than anything, I think it's loneliness. And by far the most common feature is they are online too much. A lot of them in Covid, a lot of them. There's huge rise during COVID but a lot of them have been online. They're the new cohort. And why, why did they come along? Do you remember that perfect storm I was talking about? I forgot to say for the young people, the last factor is social media, that suddenly they were told there's this edgy group, lgbtq. Do you not feel like yourself? Do you hate your body? Do you want to be somebody else? Why don't you join us? We're the cool, edgy, very online group. And it's extraordinary. So many of these kids, you'd see them online and they're funny and they're sophisticated and they're witty and they're, you know, very impressive. Then you meet them and they could barely speak. They can't meet your eye. They've no social skills. And so they've got a very highly developed online Persona and a very underdeveloped real life Persona. And that's happening in tandem. And they prefer themselves online, they prefer their online personality. And their online personality is often a boy or a girl. But as well as that, up until the last 10 years, the cohort was mostly middle aged males that wanted to medically transition. And that was for a kind of a paraphilia sexual reason, a sexual disorder. And then the other was very young little boys who wanted to be girls. Little kind of sissy boys would be what they would have been called back in the day. And they often grew up to be gay. Then suddenly in the last 10 years, there's been an extraordinary change in the cohort and now it's gone from by far way more boys to suddenly it's about 70% girls. It's been a complete swing. And why that is, lots of people have lots of different theories. My own theory is girls are looking for ever more interesting reasons to flee from their sexualization. Maybe since the 50s and 60s, teenage girls have been sexualized, you know, with the arrival of rock music. It's just a theory, but anyway, then anorexia somewhere around then and anorexia arrived. It was social contagion and it stayed. Then after anorexia came bulimia. And bulimia arrived, you know, where people are vomiting. Then it arrived. There was social contagion with bulimia. Extraordinary numbers of social contagion. Once it came on the tv, teenage girls would go for it. And then that stayed as a coping mechanism, a kind of way to hate your body. After bulimia, we're going into the noughties now. The nineties and the noughties, self harm came and mutilation, kind of, you know, mutilating your body but also self harming your body. And that came. It was socially contagious. Nobody knew. Where is this coming from? Why are teenage girls self harming? We've never really seen it in anything except tiny numbers. And now it's arrived and it's a common. Like you and I weren't talking about self harm 25 years ago. Now it's very common. And after self harm, there's a golden thread between all of these conditions and now it's gender dysphoria. I want to be a boy, I want to take medication and change. Some sort of fleeing of sexuality, some sort of response to I don't want to be a sexualized female in a world Porn, online objectification, constantin Constant emphasis on their looks. And so many of these girls. A quick way of saying it is, I don't think I'm pretty enough to be a girl.
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Jack Fowler
Oh my gosh, yes. Horrific. I see with my own children, I'm ugly like. No, you're not. Stop it. Stop. Why is this in the air, in the water and everywhere? But hey, we're going to take a break in a second, but I have another question. And I know we're talking about typicals here and that may be unfair, but I think we do need some general understandings here. So Mary becomes Charles, and then one day Charles, former Mary, begins to doubt, maybe I made a mistake. And then Charles begins to detransition. Everyone's story is unique, but if you could give a common composite case, what is the arc of Mary to Charles, back to Mary. And if you could limit this because I want to talk later about families and how families play into all this. But in the mind of the Mary, of Mary Charles, Mary, what are they going through in this arc?
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Stella O'Malley
So if I was to give a typical example, my God, there's many of these stereotypical examples. Mary, at around about 11 or 12, she might have some autistic traits. She might be diagnosed with autism. And as the socializing becomes more complex, she feels left behind. The girls are becoming kind of tweens, kind of teens, and they're sophisticated and she's not quite up to that. She was happier in the more childlike world where we were just playing with games and toys and there wasn't the complexity of who likes who and little crushes and all this. And she's out of her depth and doesn't quite like it. She's always been sensory, you know, she just wants to wear certain clothes and doesn't really care about this new dressing up and makeup and all this. She doesn't like it sensorily, she doesn't like it. But anyway, she's not really a dressy uppie type because maybe she's same sex attracted, maybe she's lesbian, or maybe she just hasn't yet developed her sexuality, which is more common, I would say. So she hasn't. And they've all kind of moved on and they're developing crushes and she just peels freaked out, there's a fight or there's some sort of feeling of being left out and she starts to go online and when she goes online she finds through the algorithms because she's saying things like I don't like myself or nobody likes me. Why doesn't anybody like Me. Through those algorithms and those questions, she gets fed into a massive, massive lobby group of, you could be trans. If you think you're trans, you're trans. Take this quiz and press this quiz to find out if you're trans. And the first question is if you think that you are. And it just beams at you. So she gets into this online world, which is extraordinarily effervescent and bubbly and fun. And you've got little rainbow kind of bracelets and rainbow this and rainbow that stickers. It's very basic cause it's just. You identify, but it's also quite cerebral. So it's very kind of basic in the colors. And if you want to be a girl, you. If you want to be a boy, you can be a boy. But it gets into all this kind of clever trans misogyny and all these concepts that when you're 12 or 13, you're kind of interested in. It's a new world. And it's an in group, and she's never been in an in group. And it's a secret world. And when you're that age, you like having secret worlds that you're not involving your parents in because you're starting to grow and become an adolescent. So you like the idea of a secret group, but you also, because you're autistic, you like the fact that it's online. And you don't have to meet them online in real life, you don't have to actually interact with them. And so over time, you get more and more into this idea. And all of your distress, all of your loneliness gets channeled into, I was born in the wrong body. That's why I'm distressed. That's why I'm lonely. All of this distress, all of this awkwardness and loneliness is because I should have been Charlie. Why am I married? This is wrong. And everybody needs to understand my new identity is my true identity. And then I'll be happy. And so a lot of these kids, and I meet them because I'm a psychotherapist, they think everybody else is living these golden lives where everything is easy and they don't have dark problems. They might have little problems, but not really. It's finished by lunchtime and that we're all just cruising. I know. And also they've been taught, if you have a problem, tell an adult with the implication that an adult will make you happy. And if you're not happy, something is wrong rather than life is difficult and you're gonna be often not happy. They think Something is wrong, I'm unhappy. And obviously the answer is I'm born in the wrong body and I should be. Charles. And nobody understands it, because part of the victim mentality within this group is nobody understands us. We're an us. They're a them out there. They'll never understand us. We are part of the very special clique of unknowable people. Nobody knows what it's like to be trans except the trans people. And so we're very, very special. And that's very bewitching for this teenager. She's like, yeah, this is me. And it's very exciting and bewitching. And then she gets caught up in this fixation. She has this belief that if I medicalize, my life is going to be better. I'm going to be probably like that YouTube cool. Boy, that looks really nice, you know. And so she's bought into this concept almost like when you were a kid and you saw rock stars and you thought, I'd like to be a rock star. Then you got told, yes, you can. And nobody else understands it. So they're gullible. These are naive, gullible kids. And then they go. And when they go to the doctors in this affirmative world, the gender affirmative care means if the child says they're trans, it's child led, not child centered, child led. So if the child says they're trans, then they're trans. And the best thing to do is medicalize them. And nobody else can say this is because it's entirely subjective. It's entirely up to the individual. And so if a mother or father says, listen, she was very lonely and she needs to address her autism, which she has rejected and pretends not to exist, and she really does need to address other issues before she medicalizes and becomes a different person, they'd say, you're transphobic. And you know, we will call child protection services if you keep speaking like this. And your child could die by suicide. Suicide. Because if you don't affirm your child, the rates of suicide are uproariously high. For parents who don't affirm them, it's not.
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Jack Fowler
Is that true? Is that true, by the way?
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Stella O'Malley
Not true. And I can give you the stats on that in a minute.
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Jack Fowler
I believe you. I believe.
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Stella O'Malley
Oh, oh, it's, it's. Well, and it's probably the biggest lie that the parents I. We've worked with parents extensively. We've over 5,000 parents in our network, and the parents have been really, really treated very, very badly. It's where my Heart lies in a lot of ways because the parents, there's nothing like the love you have for a child. And when your child has been almost captured like this Pied Piper of Rainbow, you know, trans, and leads your kid, your gullible, naive kid into this world that is not a happy world. It doesn't lead to long term outcomes. And the parents have felt silenced because of false stats around suicide. What it's based upon, just as a quick synopsis, is that they asked online communities, have you ever thought of suicide? And they created a suicide stat around, well, you know, these are very gullible kids. Have you ever thought of suicide? Doesn't translate to a serious statistic about suicide. And so have you ever thought of suicide? Became the suicidality of trans youth, which is not an appropriate question. And then it took until, you know, early 2000s from Professor Michael Biggs over in Britain. He actually tracked of the 15,000 children who entered the largest gender clinic in the world, which was based in London at the time of the 15,000, four died by suicide. Two of them were receiving care, two of them were still on the waiting list. This is no higher than any distressed cohort. This is the same as an anxious cohort, the same as a depressed. These are distressed kids, 4 out of 15,000. It's slightly elevated because they're distressed. It is not anything like you need to affirm your child or they'll die. It's not true, it's not accurate. It has created the foundation of why so many parents have gone with this. There's nothing more terrifying than be told your child will die from suicide. You don't do what we tell you to do.
- [27:38]
Jack Fowler
Yeah, well, I'm gonna. I have a really basic question to ask. But first, another little. I'm going to tell her folks about silent. I know silent is what a lot of people want me to be, but deal with it. People. Everything we carry today is broadcasting a signal. Your phone, your laptop, even your car key fob. And most people don't realize it, but these devices are constantly sharing location data identifiers and wireless handshakes. With networks all around you, that signal can be tracked, collected or intercepted, making you and your data vulnerable. That's just the reality of the world we live in now. And that's why you should start using silent S l n T silent. You don't want big tech, the government or anyone else knowing your every move. You want control over when you're connected and what you share. When you place your phone, laptop or key fob in A Silent Faraday bag. The signal instantly stops. No cellular, no WI fi, no Bluetooth, no gps. Your device is disconnected from the grid. And here's the part that really got our attention. Victor Davis Hansen, in his own words, Silent has been awarded nine military contracts. This is the same type of signal blocking gear used to help protect our soldiers from GPS detection and electronic threats. And now that same technology is available for everyday people. Folks, you and I, we're everyday people. So if you want to check it out, go to silents L-N-T.com VDH Again, that's slnt.com VDH to save 15% plus free shipping on qualifying orders. Again, that's silent.coms L-N-T.comVDH we thank the good people from Silent for sponsoring Victor Davis Hansen in his own words. One really basic question, Stella o', Malley, if you could a strive again for typical and we're talking about now about detransitioning. What does that mean? What does detransitioning mean for a girl and what does it mean for a boy? And I know by the way that there are some men my age who are detransitioning, so I don't wanna call em a girl or a boy. But male, female, I should say. Yeah.
- [30:00]
Stella O'Malley
So imagine this girl Mary that we've kind of spoke about. So she medically transitions generally, you know, 17, 18, she starts medicalizing, maybe has a mastectomy, starts masculinizing. Her body takes a lot of testosterone. And the hoped for, the promise, the happy days, the kind of relief from anxiety, the kind of the idea that she was going to be that slightly cool boy on the YouTube video doesn't materialize. It's very, very disappointing actually. She often has an awful lot of UTIs. Like when you're taking testosterone and you're a female, you're putting petrol into a diesel tank. So your body kind of. There's an awful lot of aches, for example, an awful lot of aching joints, an awful lot of physical challenges. The very same with estrogen for males. Their bodies are not made to accept these large amounts and their body starts kicking off. So there's lots of little niggly problem that you're never out of the doctors for. But at the same time, well, let's say for testosterone, the first couple of years are phenomenal. It's kind of like cocaine, you know, testosterone. I had no idea. And any man will have gone through their adolescence like, yeah, testosterone is phenomenal. But we females don't know the impact of that. But females who take testosterone, their libido goes through the roof, their energy goes through the roof, become cocky and confident. That kind of teenage boy, kind of, you know, quite assertive, quite aggressive and very energetic and very full of themselves, actually. And that lasts for a few years, which is very bewitching because I think I might. Look at me, I'm Charles now, look at me. I'm well able. I have a huge libido, I'm very energetic. I can take on the world. I'm nothing like that wilting flower that was Mary. But then over time, about three years into testosterone, the body starts collapsing and the body starts the UTIs constant pain. For example, that libido turns into a Chinese torture because they have extreme pain on orgasm. So they might have a high libido but they can't have an orgasm because it's so painful. So it's like, yeah, it's really, really mind blowingly difficult. Now it depends on the person. It's very like alcohol. One person drinks a pint and they're drunk. Another person drinks five pints and they're not drunk. You know what I mean? It depends how fast it impacts, but generally about three years and generally by about five years they will need a hysterectomy. That's the rule of thumb. And they'll need a hysterectomy because their insides are being ruined by the testosterone as well as that. They often feel that the life they thought the yellow brick road, the golden lives that they thought they were on, hasn't really happened. They don't have loads of friends. It stayed online, everything stayed online, which is, let's face it, a little bit empty After a few years it might be exciting to start. But so all of it, it's very like the drug addicts kind of, oh, this is euphoric, this is great for the first few years and then it slowly becomes lonely and bad and rotten. And so often I found We've got over 600 detransitioners in our networks and genspect. We offer, you know, therapeutic zoom meetings for these people. And a lot of them detransition because they feel that the medical complications led them to think, what am I actually doing? Why am I putting testosterone in my body when I know it's giving me pain? So let's say I'll give one example of one woman. She was going, she went to about three doctors and each doctor was giving her different kind of medication for the joint pain. And she was getting to a point like she was in her early 20s, and she couldn't walk with the pain. And a lot of them, if you notice, a lot of them are in wheelchairs. A lot of them are using crutches. And then finally she went to her fourth doctor and he said, you could go off testosterone. And she looked at the doctor like, what? And he said, that's probably causing it. The other doctors didn't say that she went off. Within about two weeks, the joint pain had gone. The joint pain that had crippled her was immediately as. And then as soon as the joint pain went, she thought, why was I doing? What was this all for? What? What? What? You know, I was taking something that was poisoning my body, and that leads them to detransition. And when they, you know, so many of them say, oh, sorry. Sorry about that. So many. Sorry about that. Just a bit of a kerfuffle there. I'm sorry. Some of them say when they come to the idea of maybe I'll detransition. I remember one woman saying she'd wake up in the middle of the night with this kind of horror of, oh, my God, do I have to detransition? And then she'd cry her eyes out. But the next morning, she'd go around her day as if it was normal. She was a boy, it was fine. Next night she'd go to sleep, and again, she'd wake up in the middle of the night of, oh, my God, I had a mistake. I can't detransition. And she would cry. Her eyes. I was so. It was coming to get her every night. It's like, you know, the subconscious. And so many of them resist detransitioning for some time because they're like, I've chopped up my body. I can't. I can't become. Like. I remember one person who. I know who was. She had puberty blockers. So therefore, before she started menstruation, her puberty was blocked, so she never menstruated. This is about 12 or 13. And she had a mastectomy, even though she only had breast buds. As she said, I never wore a bra, so I don't. I never had, you know, I never had enough breasts to wear a bra. Very young, when she was blocked and she went on to medicalize, had testosterone, had a phalloplasty, which, you know, means that, you know, kind of a simulcrum of a penis. And then she said, I'm afraid. She said, I'm afraid to detransition my body is. No, she's had a hysterectomy, is no longer equipped to take estrogen. I don't know if I can. And she said, I'm in constant pain. She was in constant pain for three years at this stage. And she said, every doctor I've gone to doesn't know what they're talking about because they've never seen the like of me. I'm new, I'm a complete guinea pig. They don't know. And she goes, I'm in constant pain and I'm afraid of getting worse if I try to reverse. And so we're working with people like that. And I don't give medical advice like, you know, because that is experiment upon experiment upon experiment. What we do is we give support and we give a kind of a community of lots of people. We call it mostly harmed by medical transition. And here's.
- [36:34]
Jack Fowler
I sense that the community aspect is gotta be vital to this. I can't imagine doing this without some camaraderie.
- [36:47]
Stella O'Malley
Yeah, you're right. And that's why we had the event in D.C. where we brought over 70 detransitioners together because exactly your intuition is bang on. They need to meet each other. Some of them have never met another detransitioner until last Thursday. That they need to meet each other and realize I wasn't a fool. I was 12. I was sold a very fraudulent story. Some of them beat them up. And I'm like, the doctors should have looked after you in your hour of need.
- [37:15]
Jack Fowler
We're going to take a little break here in a second, but at that conference, I'm very happy that folks are finding themselves and finding a way out. But you talked about the degradation of the body and I really thought I was amongst the walking wounded. So many, I mean, they're relatively young and their bodies, they were moving like they were senior citizens. So uplifting in some ways and sad in others. Well, Sulla, we're going to take just a very quick break and then we're going to look at families and we'll do that right after these important messages.
- [37:54]
America the Beautiful Narrator
Since the founding of America 250 years ago, many things have changed. But some things never do. The commitment of husband and wife, the importance of passing along our values to our children. The faithfulness of God. Some wonder how we can ensure America will continue to thrive as long as we keep. First things first. We've only just begun. America the Beautiful.
- [38:24]
Jack Fowler
We are back with Victor Davis Hansen. In his own words. Special guest appearance, star pinch hitter Stella Omar. Pinch hitter, by the way, that's a baseball term. Stella, I know you don't play baseball over in Ireland, but, you know, that's
- [38:40]
Stella O'Malley
bent over my head. I thought I looked at him later.
- [38:43]
Jack Fowler
Oh, okay. Yeah. It's an honor to pinch hit for Victor Davis Hansen. So we're recording on Friday the 20th. This episode will be up on Saturday the 21st. Stella. About families who are, I assume some are almost rooters in the process to transition. You know, getting. I love my kid and I want Mary to become. I have a feeling most people, including some folks we've talked about on the Victor show, of just absolute heartbreak. And my child is no longer my child because of the psychological drugs. They've just totally destroyed whatever this person was. But all that aside, not that I should put it aside, but we're talking about detransitioning. So how critical is the family typically to the detransitioning process?
- [39:48]
Stella O'Malley
You know, the families have been really badly impacted. I remember one mother saying, I just look at the eyes of my daughter because everything else has changed. Her voice has changed, her face has changed, her body has changed. But the only thing that's left is her eyes. So I just focus on her eyes. So in a way, the families can feel very, very hurt by the child's kind of rejection of their self. You know what I mean? Like, as another, you know, mother said to me, I identify as the mother of a daughter. I didn't give birth to a son. And so that's my. That's my identity. I'm the mother of one daughter, and she is a daughter and she's a girl. So they often feel quite thrown by the kids when they. I shouldn't call them the kids, but a lot of them are young people who detransition. Cause they're like, oh, more drama. So you insisted on us supporting you through the transition. It was the most important thing ever. And now you're looking for support through the detrans. And so they're a little bit embittered. And I can see why. You know what I mean? However, ultimately they tend to think, thank God it's easier. Because I do find it's very much like, remember I gave the analogy of the drug addict, you know, when the drug addict are the alcoholic, they're unreachable. They're just partying, everything's great. And they're kind of fake and they're kind of unreachable. And then when they get sober, they're more real. They're more real people. They're more kind of authentic. That's the difference with the detransitioners. We have these groups and some of them are d trans groups, but some of them are open groups where trans identified people would meet detransitioners all in one group. And I'd be the facilitator. And you can see that the trans identified person might come on and say, my transphobic parents, you know, they, they're Nazis because they won't call me she, her or he, him or whatever. And the detransitioners are like, well, you know, I've had a UTI for the last three years. I'm in constant pain. I don't care about my pronouns. And you can see it hits the trans identified people strongly. They're like, whoa, you know what I mean? This is. Now we're in the big class, you know what I mean? It's not messing around about. Words are violent and, and I think it gives them a great insight, your road ahead of you. So I'm very fervent that I want those identified as trans coming into our groups because they meet the real thing and they meet real. But yeah, the families are important for detransition. But it's a good sign of recovery that the families aren't central when they're transitioning. The children or the young people insist on their family support when they're detransitioning. The detransitioner is doing it for themselves stuff. They're just, you know, they're just doing it, you know, they just realize, as one said, I want off the crazy train. I don't care who's coming with me. I'm off.
- [42:42]
Jack Fowler
Well, we're gonna, we're gonna get your take on the public square detransitioning. But first, one final message to our viewers and listeners. If you want to drop extra pounds, boost energy levels, reduce swelling in your legs and feet, then this message is for you. Pure Health research is on a mission to make America healthy again. And two of their best selling health supplements are leading the way. First is Liver health formula. Over 100 million Americans have a sluggish liver riddled with fatty deposits. This can kill your metabolism, pile on the pounds, and make you feel tired. Liver Health Formula helps take care of all that. It supports thriving liver health with special nutrients like artichoke extract and milk thistle. And this is one of the easiest ways to slim down and revitalize your energy levels. And the next is lymph system support. If you struggle with fluid buildup or swelling in your legs, ankles or feet, well, then this is for you. The natural ingredients in lymph system support help gently flush extra fluids and toxins out of the body. And right now, for a limited time, you can get 35% off liver health formula and lymph system support, along with 50 plus health supplements pure Health Research has to offer. So head over to PureHealthResearch.com and use the coupon Code Victor B I C T O R at checkout. That's PureHealthResearch.com with code VICTOR to save 35% on your order today. And we thank the good people from Pure Health Research for sponsoring Victor Davis Hansen in his own words. Two more questions for Stella o'. Malley. Thanks so much for being here, Stella, for Edge, educating us and giving us a real good, healthy perspective on what's happening, this transition, detransition world we live in. So speaking of the world we live in, the J.K. rowlings of the world, they come in for rage because they stand against transitioning or they stand for biology. But I believe there are forces that probably can't stand Stella o' Malley probably can't stand genspec because of what you do and your miss so what are the organizations, you don't have to name specific names or what are the causes, the advocates of this or that that malign and castigate detransitioning, or organizations such as yours whose mission is to help in this regard. What's your experience been in the public forum? Because you're out there and I'm sure there's incoming, there are howitzers shooting at you. What's that like?
- [45:21]
Stella O'Malley
Yeah, well, it's it's harrowing. To be honest. It's, it's pretty destabilizing. So, you know, the only reason I think I'm still here and still speaking is because of the very fervent attempts to silence me. I am a psychotherapist, you know, based in Ireland, mental health all the way. That's all I'm interested in. I just, you know, that's my I'm interested in psychology and better healthier lives. And I did a film about this issue in 2018 in the UK actually. And the concept of the film was why is there 4,000% rise in females seeking medical transition? Like a 4,000% rise in anything. The sale of footballs would be extraordinary. Why is that like 4000% rise is extraordinary and connected with them have been like me because I was a little tomboy and I was very boyish and I'm happy to be a woman now, so what is that about? That was it. That was the very benign question for that. You know, it was unbelievable, the online attacks I got and the lies and the smears and the elongated smear campaigns. And so as a result, it got my back up. I didn't like being silenced. I didn't like being lied about. And it's. I've ended up now fully absorbed in this world because. Because I've kind of uncovered inadvertently this extraordinary world where trans activists are real zealots that will go very, very, very far in ruining people's lives just to shut them up, because they want to believe they really are a boy or they really are a girl. And they think all of their problems, all of their unhappiness, which is extensive, is because of people like me. It's because of transphobia. It's not because they had mental health problems in the first place. It's because of transphobia. That's what they think. I think it's because they have mental health problems.
- [47:17]
Jack Fowler
Well, wow. I haven't written this. I'll bumble into it, but I do have one more major question. But in America today, we see some of these mass shootings. There's a lot of. There's a lot of violence in overlap with trans. I mean, deadly violence. I don't know if you have anything you want to say about that.
- [47:47]
Stella O'Malley
Well, there is something I want to say. There's a couple of things. One is we have to spend tens of thousands in security for our conferences, and we have conferences that are just raising public awareness for things like deep transition, that some people aren't happy in their transition, and that's when they're most likely to die by suicide. Because, remember I talked about the suicide stats pre medical transition. Well, post transition, they're actually quite elevated. Ten years in, and I can see why ten years in, none of the promises have happened. You've got loads of physical issues. I can see why some people turn to suicide rather than detransition. I wish they wouldn't. I wish they'd find groups like us. But there is. You can see the rage of the. You know, that feeling of, I've been sold a pup, I've been sold down the river here. This is a disaster. Now, many of us have felt that, very few of us have felt it about a medical intervention. But to the extent that they have, the rage is real. Of utter disappointment in the entire scenario. As well as that. You put testosterone into a female body and you're gonna get a lot of aggression and a Lot of anger. There's a lot of different aspects. But as well, you know, the community, the very community that welcomed these naive, gullible, awkward, lonely people into the LGBTQ world, they are utterly silent in the face of detransition. They just say it doesn't exist. Tiny numbers. It doesn't exist. Tiny numbers. They corrupt research, they release corrupt research, they release kind of fraudulent kind of numbers that kind of suggest that detransition is tiny. Nobody really knows how many people have detransitioned. We do know that 76% don't return to the clinic to tell them they've detransitioned. Arguably, a lot of them that in my groups have said it's. I don't wanna return to the scene of the attack. I was a fool. I was telling everybody I was a boy. I don't wanna go anywhere near. Yeah.
- [49:49]
Jack Fowler
Oh, gosh.
- [49:50]
Stella O'Malley
Then as well as that, like, when I first started following dtransreddit in 2019, there was less than a thousand members on D Transreddit. Now there's over 58,000 members. Yeah. And I do urge anybody who's interested, go on to D Transreddit. Just Google D Trans Reddit. Go on for five minutes and your jaw will hit the ground. You'll think there's an online war of disaster. Like you say, it's the walking wounded. It's very like people have come home from a war that they're wounded and they're distressed and they're. Wait, I can't hear.
- [50:34]
Jack Fowler
Excuse me. Yeah. Can you hear me now?
- [50:37]
Stella O'Malley
Yeah, I can. Yeah.
- [50:37]
Jack Fowler
Yeah. Okay. Sorry, press the wrong button. One final question, by the way. Genspect. G E N S P E C t dot org that's it. That's the way to folks. I recommend our viewers and listeners, if they're interested, to go there. Stella, final question. This is not just another issue like tariffs or taxes. Transitioning. Detransitioning is so fundamental, I think, to our understanding of society and civilization. You're in the thick of it. What are one or two things you'd like to see happen to make this fight, I'll say, more balanced? It could be something like barring men from participating in women's sports or pressuring medical to stop their woke fixations. Or maybe it's the possibility of widespread malpractice litigation. Maybe it's none of these. But what might be the things you hope for as you carry on this important mission?
- [51:35]
Stella O'Malley
Thank you. Yeah. Genspact have released a book recently called the Gender Framework. And in that book we offer. This is how, this is how we can resolve this. For example, we address the issue between biological sex and identity and that if one person identifies versus biological sex, and Professor Holly Lawford Smith examines that in A Conflict of Needs and how do we resolve it? And in it she gives a very good, I think, argument of why we have to prioritize a biological sex. Because that's the body, the identity is in your mind and therefore that cannot take precedence over the body. For example, we run with our bodies and therefore races and all competitions to do with sports is with your body. And therefore it's a body based decision, not an identity based decision. Another thing that we address in the book is the idea of transition in school. And we show that it's not appropriate to. That's a whole other chapter. It's not appropriate to tell secrets on children, not to tell children that this is a trans girl. He was born a boy, he's transitioned. Now he's called a trans girl. Yet, yes, everybody says, but he'll be bullied. People get bullied for having red hair. People get bullied for being tall or small. People get bullied for a lot of things and it's up to the schools to stop that. But you don't tell people lies. And arguably a person's sex is public information. When I look at you, I presume you're a man. You presume I'm a woman. And we go with that. And if we're hiding that public information, we've never done it before and it's causing weirdness where you can't. For example, a little girl was best friends with this. She, she was new to the town with another little girl and she didn't find out until about a year in that actually that little girl was a little boy and she was having sleepovers with them. She didn't know. How would she know? And it was devastating. It was very distressing for her. She had no idea that the parents are trans, the kid, and she was living with somebody who was effectively lying, certainly deceiving. And so we explain in detail. While it's not appropriate for schools to uphold secrets, transparency and honesty is the north star here. And we have to have. The ground beneath us has to be solid. And lastly, our biggest and strongest push is you don't need to medicalize just because you want to be a boy. There's lots of ways I want to be rich, I want to be gorgeous, I want to be lots of things. Sometimes you have to deal with the limitations of life. Sometimes you have to deal with. You won't always get what you want and that's okay. You might be very lonely. We can help with that. You might be autistic, we can help with that. Lots of things we can help with with. You don't have to try and change to be a boy. It won't necessarily make you happy. And the stats suggest that you're going to have higher levels of psychiatric admission, higher levels of mental health issues such as anxiety, depression, more likely for unemployment, more likely for prison. The long term outcomes of medical transition are not good. And so you'd be better off trying to resolve and accept your own body.
- [54:37]
Jack Fowler
Stella, I gotta tell you, I admire what you do so much. This is, I think this issue is so extremely important. And also I married a former tomboy, so I, you know, but you gotta think I've chooses my wife. Like if you had been born today to a different family, maybe, you know, someone would have short circuited your path to womanhood. So anyway, anyway, genspect.org, that's the organization that you're doing the Lord's work. And I really firmly believe that is truly the Lord's work you're doing. So Stella o', Malley thanks so much for being here folks. Check out the website, check out Stella's books and thanks for sharing all the information and we will be back soon with another episode of Victor Davis Hansen in His own Words. God bless everyone. Bubba by thank you thank you for tuning in to the Daily Signal. Please like share and subscribe to be notified for more content like this. You can also check out my own website@victorhansen.com and subscribe for exclusive features in addition.