VDH: Britain's Decline, Open Borders, and the West's Crisis

Summary

Victor Davis Hanson: In His Own Words
Episode: Britain's Decline, Open Borders, and the West's Crisis
Date: June 25, 2026
Hosted by Victor Davis Hanson with Jack Fowler (The Daily Signal)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Victor Davis Hanson provides wide-ranging historical and cultural analysis on the current crises facing the West, focusing on Britain’s political upheaval and broader issues like American constitutional integrity, left-wing radicalism, the legacy of slavery, the Fauci controversy, technological renaissance in the U.S., and the importance of upholding civilization’s standards. The conversation weaves contemporary news with deep historical context, offering listeners sharp critiques, memorable anecdotes, and vivid warnings about the fragility of societal achievements.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Britain’s Political Upheaval: Starmer Out, Burnham In

• [03:06 - 08:59]

  • Starmer’s Record

    • Victor describes former PM Keir Starmer as a “civil libertarian” who paradoxically imposed unprecedented censorship in the UK, more drastic than even other European or Asian nations.
    • Starmer’s handling of mass gang-rape cases involving Muslim grooming gangs is cited as evidence of political correctness overriding justice.
    • Notable irony: “[Starmer] brought in the most oppressive censorship, not just in English history, but throughout... more restrictive than anywhere in Europe, than Russia. Yes, and China.” (VDH, 04:15)

  • Britain’s Systemic Political Issues

    • The lack of direct democratic accountability is criticized—leadership changes often happen in backroom deals with no public input.
    • “It’s not a very transparent system.” (VDH, 04:15)

  • European Decline and American Influence

    • The “woke virus” and policies like DEI and radical green agendas began in the U.S. and spread to Europe, contributing to their current crisis.
    • “When we criticize Europe, especially from the conservative side, we’re not doing it because we don’t like Europe… We feel a certain responsibility because the DEI diversity, equity, inclusion virus started here.” (VDH, 05:07)

  • Prescription for Recovery

    • Close borders, merit-based immigration, and return to traditional energy sources (oil, gas, nuclear).
    • Britain’s inability to maintain military force: “They don’t have a frigate or a submarine that can float and the Russians know that and the Russians try to humiliate them.” (VDH, 10:47)
    • Reflection on the broader Western pattern: societies become so affluent and self-critical they turn on the systems that enabled them in the first place.

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2. The Rise of Radical Leftism and U.S. Constitutional Order

• [13:09 - 18:39]
  • Democratic Socialists (DSA) Agenda
    • DSA platforms now call for abolishing the Senate, defunding “carceral capitalist state,” amnesty for all immigrants, and subordinating executive/judicial powers to Congress.
    • VDH ties this radicalism to a historic pattern of unchecked democracy, referencing Athenian-style mob rule.
    • “The whole point of the Jacobin New Socialists is to sort of have an Athenian democracy—on any given day you can execute Socrates... No railguard, no checks, no balances, instant referendum.” (VDH, 16:00)
  • Defense of the Federal System
    • VDH explains why the Senate was structured to protect rural/small states and check mass urban hysteria.
    • Asserts this “brilliant system” is all that protects from tyranny via majority rule.

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3. Obama’s Critique of the Founders and the American Slavery Legacy

• [21:38 - 35:38]
  • Obama’s Critique of the Founders
    • Obama claimed the Founders “fell terribly short” in achieving the Declaration’s ideals.
    • VDH refutes this as historically illiterate, noting the Founders’ constraints and their efforts, including compromises to secure unity against Britain.
    • “Maybe he could contrast the Kenyan Constitution, where his family originated and how brilliant that was and why everybody wants to go to Kenya.” (VDH, 21:38)
  • The Real History of Slavery
    • Slavery was a worldwide phenomenon, not a uniquely American or white institution.
    • The abolition of slavery was pioneered by the Anglo-Saxon world; the U.S. and Britain led the way.
    • “The word slave, what is the etymology? Slav... because that’s where most of the slaves for Ottoman Muslims came from.” (VDH, 30:25)
    • Comparative lens: Millions of Europeans enslaved by Muslims; slavery persisted in Africa and the Muslim world far beyond the U.S. Civil War.
    • “Slavery was never equated with race, really.” (VDH, 35:38)
    • America’s struggle and eventual eradication of slavery is described as “exceptional in history.”

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4. Dr. Fauci and the Wuhan Lab Controversy

• [43:31 - 48:36]
  • Recent Revelations (via Tulsi Gabbard)
    • New documents released showing Fauci's role in funding gain-of-function research at Wuhan.
    • Allegations that Fauci orchestrated a coverup regarding lab-leak origins, lied to Congress.
  • Strategic Assessment
    • VDH outlines the flow of U.S. funds and expertise into Wuhan even after such research was banned in the U.S.
    • “He was a Dr. Frankenstein. He created a human. I mean, not a human, but he created a living organism that killed people.” (VDH, 47:25)
    • Critique of the intent and moral hazard behind gain-of-function work: “In a cost to benefit analysis, it was too dangerous given limited benefits… Now with AI, we have other means.” (VDH, 47:02)

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5. U.S. Renaissance in Technology & Industry; Latin American Political Shifts

• [51:29 - 62:07]
  • South America – Turn to the Right as U.S. Influence Wanes
    • Multiple Latin American nations have shifted right since the withdrawal of USAID/funding that promoted leftist/“woke” policies.
    • VDH notes a broader weariness of left-wing experiments both domestically and internationally.
  • American Technological Renaissance
    • Under Trump, U.S. pivots away from large, entrenched defense contractors, encouraging nimble innovation in drones, hypersonics, and AI-driven warfare.
    • “We are racing ahead of Europe in per capita income and per capita GDP, in energy production… We're kind of in a renaissance.” (VDH, 52:14)
    • The changing military-industrial complex: new entrepreneurial model vs. old “brass-board” culture.
    • “The idea that you can go right out of the revolving door and join the board... It's incestuous.” (VDH, 57:43)

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6. Vandalism, Civilization, and the Decline of Public Order

• [62:31 - 73:11]

  • Reflecting Pool Episode & Monument Destruction

    • Trump’s Truth Social post on repair and subsequent vandalism of the National Mall’s reflecting pool.
    • VDH places recent iconoclasm (statue destruction, vandalism of monuments) in historical context: “They can throw paint on the Mona Lisa or something, but they cannot create the Mona Lisa.” (VDH, 64:45)
    • Riff on the “broken windows” theory: small acts of neglect or vandalism rapidly erode civilizational norms.
    • Personal anecdote: “If I walk around at night or when I drive my pickup, if I would see a car seat in a strategic place and I didn’t pick it out the next day, I would see a garbage bag on top of it... so it was constant vigilance—and that was what human nature is.” (VDH, 67:26)

  • Civilization’s Thin Veneer

    • “Civilization is very fragile, has a very thin veneer. When you start to rip off that veneer everything... geometrically, not arithmetically.” (VDH, 67:26)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Starmer and Britain:
  “Nobody divided the country more... I do kind of object, Jack, you said he was very unpopular. He did get 7% approval rating—so we've got to give him his due.” (VDH, 04:15)

• On Western Decline:
  “There’s something at the very beginning of Western civilization… some very brilliant people were aware that Western self-critique, rationalism… can create leisured, privileged citizens who feel they’re going to create, secularly, a heaven on earth—and they're going to trash the very system that created them.” (VDH, 12:08)

• On the U.S. Constitution:
  “The Senate was to represent state interests, not individual people, not population… to be a check on mass hysteria that pops up in cities.” (VDH, 16:00)

• On Slavery:
  “The word slave… Slav. Why? Because that's where most of the slaves for the Ottoman Muslims came from.” (VDH, 30:25)

• On Fauci:
  “He was a Dr. Frankenstein… he created a living organism that killed people… he was a participant in creating that SARS-2 virus.” (VDH, 47:25)

• On Innovation and Defense:
  “The days of, well, let's dream up a $170 million fighter and then we'll sell it to the military are gone.” (VDH, 56:46)

• On Civilization’s Maintenance:
  “If you let an institutional building or reflecting pool start to go downhill, it'll be multiplied… The next thing will be graffiti and then trash. And so you have to stop it very early, in preemptive fashion.” (VDH, 67:26)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 03:06 — Starmer's resignation and Britain's political state
• 04:15 — Critique of Britain's censorship and immigration policies
• 10:47 — Britain’s military decline and Western self-destruction
• 13:09 — DSA radical platform, abolishing the Senate
• 16:00 — The brilliance of American federalism
• 21:38 — Obama’s critique of the Founders and slavery
• 30:25 — Historical context of slavery (“Slav” origins)
• 43:31 — Tulsi Gabbard’s Fauci exposé; Wuhan lab funding
• 52:14 — U.S. technological resurgence post-USAID in Latin America
• 57:43 — Critique of revolving-door culture in defense industry
• 62:31 — Reflection on vandalism, public order, and the thin veneer of civilization

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Summary Takeaway

Victor Davis Hanson, in his characteristically broad-ranging and erudite fashion, explores the current crises afflicting the U.S. and its allies, focusing on how civilizational confidence, historical amnesia, and ideological excess threaten the foundations of the West. Anchored in history and laced with biting humor and anecdote, VDH connects today’s headlines to age-old lessons and the perennial need for civic vigilance and renewal.

Transcript

[A]

We want to partner with you. We don't want a weak sister ally. And we know what you're going through because we created it, this virus. We infected you. But you have to look at the anecdote. Close your border to have only merocratic, legal, diverse and measured immigration to use your fossil fuel, natural gas, nuclear power, explore fusion. Don't look at just what we did to infect you with the woke virus, but look what we did to help have an anecdote.

[B]

Well, hello ladies and hello gentlemen. Welcome to Victor Davis Hansen in His Own Words. I'm Jack Fowler, the host. You are here to get some wisdom and analysis from the great Victor Davis Hansen, who is the Martin and Ely Anderson Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution and and the Wayne and Marsha Busky Distinguished Fellow in History at Hillsdale College and a senior contributor at the Daily Signal, which is the hat Victor's wearing today. And that is the happy home of not only this podcast, but Victor's other show, Victor Davis Hansen in a few words four times a week at the Daily Signal, his website. He is Victor, sorry to use the pronoun, is the blade of Perseus. You'll find [e-mail] we are recording on Monday, June 22, 2026. This episode will be up on Thursday, June 25. I think, Victor, we should start the show by getting your take on Starmer's departure as the Prime Minister of Britain. The likely likelihood that Andy Burnham, the former mayor of Manchester, new member of Parliament, that he will become the next PR minister. We have Tulsi Gabbard's report on Anthony Fauci. We have South American elections are turning conservative post the end of the USAID money and all of a sudden elections seem to be going our way. And we have a few other topics to get your take on, maybe even that reflecting pool madness going on in dc. All that and more when we come back from these initial important messages.

[A]

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[B]

We are back with Victor Davis Hansen in his own words. Victor Keir Starmer was one of the most unpopular members of, excuse me, prime ministers in British history. His departure, which he announced today, was a long time coming after a series of disastrous elections and, of course, the horrific reports that have come out. About 250,000 British young white girls, gang raped over decades by these Muslim gangs. There was a by election recently that Andy Burnham, who was the mayor of Greater Manchester, ran so he could be the replacement for Sarmer, because it seemed like nobody else amongst Labour's vast majority could pull this off.

[A]

So

[B]

it seems like Burnham will be taking over. Victor, do you have any thoughts on this? And does it really matter for America that Starmer is out?

[A]

Yeah, I did a interview today with a Spectator, Freddie Gray, whom I like a great deal, and we discussed that a little bit. He's a civil libertarian or a human rights lawyer. Strummer was. And yet he brought in the most oppressive censorship, not just in English history, but throughout. All of it was more restrictive in Europe than in England, than anywhere in Europe, Than Russia. Yes, And China. And then he said that he had been a prosecutor and he oversaw and hid this mass rape of young. I use the word indigenous girls because he was politically correct and he said he was going to be a uniter. Nobody divided the country more. I do kind of object. Jack, you said he was very unpopular. He did get 7% approval rating, so we've got to give him his due. And the other thing to remember about our system that everybody seems to caricature our Constitution. We don't have a parliamentary system. We have set elections midterms every two years. Every two years, the Congress, a third of it comes up and we have a presidential election every four. Not so in Britain. You win and you get, I think it's five to six years to have a government, but you can call an election anytime, basically you want, and then if you don't like your president, you do a Joe Biden. But it's not considered a Joe Biden removal coup. It's just normal. So did anybody vote for the new replacement? No. So he just is a bunch of people in the back room, so to speak, then replace the Prime Minister when he's either incompetent or sick or unpopular and they put a new person, but the people have no say. And then you calibrate when to call an election based on your perceived advantage. So it's not a very transparent system. The other thing very Quickly, when we criticize Europe, especially from the conservative side, we're not doing it because we don't like Europe. We're doing it because we like Europe and we feel a certain responsibility because the DEI diversity, equity, inclusion virus started here. Al Gore really birthed the fanatical green nihilistic agenda here. The trans fad started here. The open borders and all that basically started here. We are dealing with it now under Trump's counter revolution, but about 10 to 15 years ago we exported it or they absorbed it from us. So when we're critiquing them, the subtext of our criticism is cry, the beloved Europe and especially the beloved uk. We like Europe, we like the uk. We remember the glory days of Europe. We want to partner with you, we don't want a weak sister ally and we know what you're going through because we created it and then we're dealing with it. This virus, we infected you, we assume that. But you have to look at the, the anecdote to it and you can see it right now. The anecdote is to close your border, not to have only merocratic, legal, diverse and measured immigration, to use your fossil fuel, natural gas, oil and oil and by association, gasoline, nuclear power, explore fusion and don't subsidize money losing wind and solar on some idea that, that we're going to heat the planet up in Europe or the United States when a third of the world's emissions come from China. And so that's the basis of why we look at Sturmer and all these stormer and we just say, you know, gosh, we dealt with these people. He's the squad we've seen. This is the socialist with a thousand faces. And we know all about you. We know that your modern incarnation, your modern appearance, because we're dealing with you. But we put you down. I don't mean that in the existential sense, but we stopped that for now. So please look at what we did. Don't look at just what we did to infect you with the WOKE virus, but look what we did to have an anecdote and maybe you can learn from us and we want you to be well, but you're not well now.

[B]

Well, we can rant and should rant, I think about the leftists in Europe and in England, Victor. But the anti, antidote to them, the precursor to Starmer was the Conservative Party, the Tory party that was not really conservative by any stretch. So there was a lot of self inflicted wounds by those people we would say were closest to Us conservatives here, but really weren't conservative at all.

[A]

We had that version too. I mean, if you look at the border, George W. Bush and John McCain were not, you know, they were not border essentialists. They felt that corporate America needed cheap labor and they believed that you didn't really need a background check. Da da da da da. They were part of the problem. Yeah.

[B]

One last thing on this, Victor. Two one is that initial reports about Andy Burnham, who seemed to be popular as the mayor of Manchester or Greater Manchester, it seems I've seen some things on X that he will not only double down but what Starmer is doing economically, but maybe increase taxes even more. And one of the problems with the increase of the taxes to pay for the social programs was coming at the expense of defense. And which is why the defense minister or whatever they might call left the Starmer administration two weeks ago. But you see these anecdotal things, Victor. It looks like Britain is incapable of fielding only but a very small force if it was needed and that their navy is.

[A]

They don't have a frigate or a submarine that can float and the Russians know that and the Russians try to humiliate them. They used to have a very sophisticated submarine fleet, frigate fleet. They had two new carriers but they seem to be in port most of the time. They have trouble with recruitment. They can't. If you're not going to develop your natural resources and you're going to be socialist and you're going to go green and dei, then you're not going to have a defense budget. So it's very sad because this was, you know, In World War II the British out per capita, they out produced Nazi Germany and they were very effective. So this whole. It's very strange for all of us our age. I'm 72. When you look at the decline of Europe and the west in general, when you think that in your lifetime you remember when this was not true. I remember in my lifetime as a little kid, 4 or 5, my parents telling me that the Queen of England was on this. I think it was one of the Prince of it was either the King George V, it was a World War II battleship and they were sailing to the commonwealth countries of Africa where they, you know, they were all honored and Prince Charles a little kid and all of that. That's all gone. That's all gone. It's really sad. And they were the bastion of a rules ordered society. It was very lawful peace, very little crime. We always used to say, why can't we be like the English Bobbies they don't even carry your guns. The left used to say that. So it was all self inflicted, just like today. And there's something at the very beginning of Western civilization, some very brilliant people were aware that Western self critique, rationalism and looking inward and the utopian impulse, and you combine market capitalism with consensual government and absolutely free speech and you can create leisured, privileged citizens who feel they're going to create secularly a heaven on earth and they're going to trash the very system that created them. And that's what happens in the West. It happened in Athens. It happened in Athens.

[B]

Well, it's happening here. And there's another thing I'd like to get your take on. City Journal has an essay, an article about the Mandami Party and let's call it the Mandami Party. They are taking over big cities. They're running candidates in various elections who are winning. And here's something from this article. Earlier this month, the Democratic Socialists of America's top leadership met for an in person meeting of their national political committee, the DSA's governing authority. The result of the meeting was Workers Deserve More, a rebooted platform for the organization featuring a host of radical proposals. The document commits DSA to scrapping the U.S. senate, abolishing the carceral forces of the capitalist state. I think that means no prison, defunding the Department of War, amnesty for all immigrants, and replacing the President and Supreme Court with an executive and judiciary chosen by and subordinate to Congress. So this is what the Democratic Socialists of America is, but this is really the Democrat Party of America. Now this is the agenda.

[A]

In a recent book I wrote three years ago, the Dying Citizen, I pointed out basically what they were going to be doing. Because in researching that book I read liberal law journals and I found out that I always thought packing the court, which of course they want, or the National Voter Compact and get rid of the Electoral College, which they want, and letting in Puerto Rico and making a state out of Washington D.C. to get four senators, which they always want, and getting rid of the Senate filibuster, which they don't always want when they're in the majority, but when they're in the minority they do. I thought that was pretty radical. Then I started to discover that in these legal articles the real thing that drives the left angry is the U.S. senate. Because whereas 435 representatives represent in today's population from the last census at least about 750,000 people per district, and it's popularly based, the Size of the Senate is determined by the number of states. So what you would see again and again, oh, we're in California, we have 41 million people. And at the time it was Kamala Harris. Kamala Harris, she represents 20 million people. But all those white rednecks up in Wyoming, they only have 450,000 people. They got two senators. They get every 220,000 people. They get a representative.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you should read the Federalist Papers why that is because they wanted the Senate to represent state interests, not individual people, not population. The state of Wyoming, because they felt that rural states were would be a check on mass hysteria that pops up in cities and that the people would have representation in the House based on their numbers and they would have representation in the Senate based on their residence in a particular state. It's a brilliant system and they want to get rid of that. The whole point of the Jacobin New Socialists is to sort of have an Athenian democracy where on any given day you can execute Socrates or you can wipe out the middle line and you can do anything you want if you have 51% of the vote. No railguard, no checks, no balances, instant referendum. Now in la, you know, Los Angeles, the city council is just about to vote that it's legal for illegal aliens to vote in municipal election. I don't know how that can be constitutional, but they'll say it's a state. The left loves states rights issues. Now maybe they'll say it's a state or local. Right.

[B]

It's interesting that the name of our country is the United States of America. The key word there is states. It's United States. And we just have to be of America, which give us a little nod to Margot Vespucci there. But yeah, the whole concept of federalism is. Federalism is anathema to the left.

[A]

It's a brilliant system. It really is. It allows venting and migration and choice with 50 different examples and you can taste them all and taste none of them. But it's your choice and people can vote with their feet and that's why they don't like. They want to trap you in a blue paradigm so they can turn the whole country blue. They do not want anybody to be happy other than, you know, that sour face. I'm serious. Michelle Obama. Look, I can't smile. I'm trying to transform in the United States. How would I be able to smile?

[B]

Well, we're going to get your thoughts on her husband in a second.

[A]

But who? The dazzling, brilliant one. She said, my husband's Dazzling, brilliant. He won the Nobel Peace Prize. He gave you Obamacare. He helped introduce racial healing. All lies except the Nobel Prize, I guess.

[B]

Yeah, well, we'll get your take on him as a historian. But first, to our listeners and our viewers, if you've studied enough history, you start to see a pattern. Nations don't lose their way overnight. They drift through debt and division until one day you realize the foundations you thought were permanent were never permanent at all. Today, America is spending at levels once reserved for war type. We've normalized deficits that would have stunned earlier generations. And policymakers now debate whether the only path forward is more intervention, more printing, more distortion. But here's the historical truth. Every society that pushed its currency beyond discipline eventually paid a price. The wise never waited for collapse. They prepared for correction. And that's why so many thoughtful Americans, especially those nearing retirement or in retirement or reallocating part of their wealth into something that has outlasted every paper experiment in human history. Physical gold not as speculation but as insulation. Our reputation matters here at Victor Davis Hansen in his own words. Which is why we're partnering with Allegiance Gold, a company distinguished by integrity, reliability and an A rating from the Better Business Bureau. For years they've guided Americans through transparent education and long standing relationships built on trust. And right now there, extending a special liberty offer to our listeners and viewers to help you get started with real gold, whether your funds are in a retirement account or sitting in a bank. And if you believe as we do that the best time to reinforce your position is before the storm becomes obvious. Call 8447-9091-9184-4790-9191 or visit Protect with Victoria. That's 844-790-919-18447909191 or visit protectwithvikor.com history rewards those who take the long view. And we thank the good people from Allegiance goal for sponsoring Victor Davis Hansen in his own words. So Victor, headline here from FOX News, Obama Knocks Founders at Presidential center debut before America's 250th former President Barack Obama said during the dedication of his presidential center. It's not a library, by the way, folks. It's just a big ego thing. The library is separate if it's ever to be at all. In Chicago last week that America's founders fell, quote, terribly short of the Declaration of Independence's promise while casting the nation's story as one of generations coming together to make the union more perfect. Victor goes on, I'm not going to read the whole quote, but I thought they did a damn good job establishing and creating the 1 greatest nation on earth and one that strove to be more perfect over.

[A]

Maybe he could contrast the Kenyan Constitution, where his family originated and how brilliant that was and why everybody wants to go to Kenya. Or maybe the Mexican Constitution that at one point, not too long ago said that immigration shall not alter the demography of the Mexican race. Or maybe they can talk about, I don't know, all the constitutions in France. They've had five, six. No, he doesn't know anything. He's completely. With all deference to our former presidents, historically illiterate. There were 13 colonies and five, I think five were southern. The two Carolinas, Maryland and Georgia and Virginia. And they, the other states were pushing to first of all outlaw the Atlantic slave trade. And they did in 1808, very quickly after the Constitution, within 20 years. And while they were agitating to outlaw slavery throughout the new nation, and de facto there were not very many slaves, de facto, slavery was not approved in the northern states. They had them, but there were very few. And they were in the process of prohibiting slavery and they would shortly do so, but not in the five states. So when Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence and he said all men are created equal, he had other corollaries in the original draft that he wanted to abolish the abomination of slavery. And that was censorship. Adams wanted it too, who was the chairman of the writing committee. But the five other states were going to bolt. So that was exactly what the British wanted to do, was to divide and conquer. And they felt that if this former colony could be sliced and diced into European like states, 30 or 40 states in the size of Europe rather than one whole nation, then it would be much easier to weaken this new United States by cutting deals with individual states or clusters of states. And the founders knew that. And so they were completely. When the south said, we want to have congressional districts based on the census, but for the congressional district census, we want African American slaves counted as regular citizens so we can get more House of Representatives. And the north said, no, we're not going to do that. And they fought over it. So they said, going to break away. So that's where the 3 5th compromise came. We'll count each slave 3 5th. Not because the north was trying to diminish a person, just because they did not want to give the south full representation and a reward for enslaving people. And yet they had to make a compromise so President Obama, what they wanted and what they envisioned and what actually happened were not the same thing. They knew there was a civil war on the horizon because these two positions could not be reconciled peacefully. But they did not want to fight a war from 1775 to 1783, basically, and then 1782, 3, and then all of a sudden turn around and have a civil war. They weren't able to do that, and they postponed the Civil war for nearly 80 years. But the point was, it was always going to be abolished. It was just, how can we do it without losing 700,000 lives? And they couldn't do it without losing 700,000 lives. So rather than saying something that could have been reasonable, there was great disagreement at the founding and the idea of unity among the colonies. And to make them immune from further British attacks or efforts to divide the new nation, they made a temporary compromise to allow states into the Union who held slaves, and those states held a lot of slaves, would have a pernicious influence. But it was resolved tragically by losing 700,000 people. But by the time that happened, the Union was strong enough to recover and unite and spread the United States all the way to the Pacific Coast. He can't have any of that nuance. It's a funny thing, is that no one gets any nuance. No one gets any background. Nobody gets the atmosphere of the times. But he demands it all the time for himself. That's what's so weird. He demands perfection in everybody else, but not himself. So, you know, you read his memoir, and he says things like, when I went on campus, I deliberately avoided white people. I was dating a white girl, and I knew that I had to stop when I got on campus. I veered over to the black nationalist groups, and he's very. And then he calls his own grandmother who supported him, a typical white person. He never explained to us what was typical, or when he was caught as bragging to the Chicago Sun Times that he never missed a service. He was there every Sunday with Jeremiah Wright. And then a few months later, Jeremiah Wright says, no, no, no, not God bless America. God damn chickens coming home to roost. Then he's President Obama, would be President Obama. Why would you be in a congregation that you were bragging? You were married there, your children were baptized there, you were there for years, and you said you went every Sunday. Why didn't you stand up and say, don't speak of my country that way? Well, you know, I wasn't there that day and I didn't go regularly. That's how he is. But for every other issue, it's, you know, if you're not perfect, you're not good like I am. I'm perfect. But he's not perfect. He always makes excuses. And his wife said, basically, I'm treating you to quote the dazzling brilliance Barack Obama, and he gave us the Nobel Prize winner. Well, he himself admitted the joke. He had done nothing to earn that. And then he said, and he was the architect that gave us Obamacare. Well, as I said earlier, we're down to 17%. It's a disaster. You can keep your plan. No, you can save money. No, it was a disaster. And, you know, racial relations. No, he exacerbated them. He made them worse. So when you go into that museum, I guarantee you it's going to be inspirational. Voices, recordings, text of speeches, all glorifying him. Kind of like the Mayday disk in dais in Moscow or Beijing. But there will not be documents showing him signing some historical bill or there's not going to be a special case. Barack Obama keeps us safe. He killed 500 people in non congressionally authorized predator strikes, including three citizens. And it won't be. Barack Obama was forced to spy on the Associated Press reporters and gather their phone data. And it won't be. Barack Obama ordered his Attorney General to ignore a congressional subpoena and he was the first attorney General to be held in contempt. And it won't be. Barack Obama never sought congressional authority, but he bombed the living daylights out of Libya for seven months and he couldn't tell us what the purpose was and who was going to win and who was losing and why he did it. So I think everybody gets. I know he's popular and I know he's got that little razzle dazzle, but there's nothing there. There's no there there. To quote Gertrude Stein.

[B]

But on the slavery question, Victor, and it's not a question, but as you've pointed out many times, the word slave itself means Slav. And I personally feel, I just wish I had been more engrossed over the years in trying to understand what's the enormity of slavery as a thing in the world and in history and that yes, there was slavery here, but our fight to eradicate it is something that may be exceptional in history.

[A]

I don't think Barack Obama realizes that the Anglo Saxon, if I could use that ossified term, was the first culture to ban it. So it was banned by the British first, and then the Americans followed suit and banned the slave trade. And then very Quickly after the signing, the abolitionists ensured that the eight other states of the original 13 were not going to be slave owning. And then they had a tremendous fight about the slave owning status for new statehood. And they came up with a variety of compromises, but the point is, they always wanted, the majority wanted to oppose it. And they would have not had a United States if they had have fought early on in their infancy over this issue. And it's tragic they couldn't get rid of it, but they couldn't. They thought about it, they tried about it, they did everything. And finally Jefferson, who was a young Zealot in the 30s, who again and again called for abolition, even though he owned, at one point, I think, 250 slaves and he had 5,000 acres. In his letters to Adams, as he aged, he was a realist. He said, there's a terrible war on the horizon and we don't know how to avoid it, but it's going to require compromise to save the Union. And the vast majority of northerners there were very heroic black troops, there's no doubt about it. But the vast majority were people who did not. It wasn't that they didn't have slaves, none of them did, but they'd never seen a slave. If you doubt me, you should read Sherman's memoirs, but especially his officers, Henry Hitchcock. They are people from Minnesota, from Ohio, from Michigan, from Iowa. They're all northern farmers. They're hardy stock. They go down through Georgia and through the Carolinas, and they are astounded at the poverty of black slaves. And they help them, they hire them as pioneers. They have a prominent role in the victory march. But the idea that this whole nation was a slave nation is not true. That was a fight. And then your other point is really well taken. The word slave, you can see it linguistically. As I kind of said, I had doctrinaire professors mostly from Europe, and anytime you were in a class on classical languages or history and you made a statement, they would correct you. No, no, no, Victor, you said something that I want to press you on. You said the word slave in your economic analysis of agriculture. What is the word for slave? Doulos. Is that the only word? Oiketes. Is that the only word? Are there other calibrations of slavery? Helates, Penestide. So you had to ground every idea. But the point I'm making is slavery predated the Americans experience. It was not just Africans. There was about 2 to 4 million Europeans who were enslaved by North African Islamic regimes and the Ottoman Empire. You can make the argument that most of the Ottoman sultans from about 1350 AD on were the child, were the children of enslaved women from southern Russia, the Balkans and Greece in the harem. So think about that. The word slave, what is the etymology? Slav. Slav. Slav S L A V. Why? Because that's where most of the slaves for the Ottoman Muslims came from. As far as the Atlantic slave trade. It's debatable. But it's more likely that 12 to 14 million slaves were imported from Africa with the acquiescence of African tribal leaders to the Islamic world, and maybe 10 to 11 were shipped to the North American world. So there you have it. And slavery was never equated with race, really. There's talk about it. And Aristotle was very, I don't want to word, very critical of the idea of slavery for one reason. He said it's not right that slaves are indistinguishable from free people. They should be people who are by nature inferior. And he meant, you know, and they thought the Thracians were, or the Thracians may have been, or the Cappadocians or people on the wild frontier like the Gauls or the Germans. 1 million Frenchmen, we'll call them Gauls, 1 million between 51 and 59 BC were enslaved by Julius Caesar and shipped into Rome. They were all.

[B]

They.

[A]

They really stood out when they came to a Mediterranean people because they had white skins, blue eyes, blonde hair, and they were slaves. And the same thing was true of slaves taken from Britain and occasionally from Germany. So it was not a monopoly based on race. And you would not have a slave trade if people who were tribal chieftains did not routinely take the defeated as slaves that were alive and sell them to Arab merchants or later to Europeans? And that's just the way it is. We never hear that. You hear that it's a white American phenomenon. It wasn't.

[B]

It's still happening today in Africa. And I wonder, Victor, after still happening today.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And after Appomattox, how many millions were still enslaved because of African and Muslim nations?

[A]

There are rumors there are still people who are indentured servants in Arab countries of the Gulf.

[B]

Well, Victor, we're going to get your take on another person. You'd love to Give takes on Mr. Fauci. But before that, here's a question to our viewers and our listeners as we approach our 250th, is it possible for us to turn around our education, to restore civic leadership, and to enjoy summer vacation with our family all at the same time? Well, Mount Titano Media says yes. And this is the book. And here it is. If you're watching this, this is the book for our 250th and for all ages. Finding Our Words, Words that Made America. This collection of the greatest speeches delivered in American history, many almost entirely forgotten, displays those very words that defined and can still drive the American mission. And now you can take them anywhere. This summer Audible Edition, these words that move the world are read by Michael Knowles, Andrew Clavin, Spencer Clavin, Bill Whittle, U.S. army generals and leaders in classical education. Every speech includes a powerful introductory essay written by our acclaimed by acclaimed scholar Tracy Lee Simmons. I'll call him Our cause. He's a friend and he's a former National View colleague. Bill Buckley loved Tracy Lee Simmons and his essays are preludes that set the stage for a deeper understanding of each of the works in the book. Mount Titano Media publishes single works and compilations of the greatest works of Western civilization for education at all levels and for independent lovers of learning and culture. Finding Our Words, Words that Made America. The book for our 250th and for always is available now in paperback, hardcover, Kindle, Audible and in Spanish. Get your copies at Amazon and on the Mount Titano Media website. That's Mount Titano. T I t a n o Mount MountToToMedia.com visit www.mounttotanomedia.com and we thank the good people from Mount Tutano Media for sponsoring Victor Davis.

[A]

These are wonderful, wonderful publications. Yeah, yeah, wonderful publication.

[B]

I got another one back there on I can't.

[A]

Tracy was a faculty member for years at Hillsdale College in the he ran the journalism department. He had a prominent role in the formation of that very wonderful Hillsdale Academy, which is just booming. Everything about Hillsdale is kind of like an island of sanity in an obscure place in southern Michigan. It's actually a beautiful place in southern Michigan, but we were so lucky to have it as a national institution. I'm not afraid that Hillsdale, because there's smart, brilliant people there, will come up with a good successor to Larry Arndt. But he's irreplaceable. He really is. What he did when he came there, it reminds me of Augustus. Augustus said, I came to a city of mud brick and I left Porostone and I left it in marble. And he came to a place that didn't have a lot of money. George Roche was in some way successful. He scandal ridden, but he raised so much money. It's such a beautiful campus. The Infrastructure. And the idea was if you could give students a classical education, but more importantly, you could give them a beautiful campus with state of the art buildings and wonderful dorms, that was important, too, for students to be happy, especially in an isolated small town. So when I went there, people said, if you go to Hillsdale, you're just isolated. There's no opera, there's no symphony. But I grew up in a small town like Hillsdale. So for me it was a wonderful 20, 21 years. And I hope I can get over this and fly again and maybe go back now and then. I hope each fall they have a

[B]

great little program also in Washington, D.C. for graduates, students. And then they have a wonderful center up here in Connecticut. Someone, the guy who founded the Friendly's restaurant chain, which is. I don't know that it's out in California or out west, but he then created a replica of Monticello. And when he died, he left it to Hillsdale. And they use it. It's called the Blake center. And it's at a central point for a lot of people in New England to come in here. Some of the great speakers, they have so many.

[A]

When I first went there, they were developing a gun range for students to be able to use their Second Amendment rights and not fear guns and be safe around them. But over the 10 or 15 years, if you've been to the Hillsdale gun range, that's not the right word for it. It's the Hillsdale Armament complex. I mean, they have sophisticated buildings, they have a restaurant, they have the state of the art. It's. It's where the US Shooting team for the Olympics train. I've never seen anything like it. It just sprouted out of a field out of nowhere. And it was funded very liberally by Hillsdale supporters. I won't mention names, though. I was just communicating the other day with a very good friend of mine who is in his 90s, and he is in the process of bequeathing. We were talking about bequeathing, and he's going to help fund a major program in Hillsdale. And his remarks were, is there any better way for my money? And of course, I said, no, there's no better way than that.

[B]

Yeah. Well, folks, if you're ever up in Southern Michigan, give it a. Check it out. Hey, Victor, we're going to have to take a break soon, but maybe along soon because Tulsi Gabbard, when she left, departed her position. She sent out this tweet and did a report. And here's the tweet excuse me. Of an X post. Today, on my final day as Director of National Intelligence, I'm releasing never before seen communications and documents exposing how Dr. Fauci provided millions in US taxpayer dollars to fund dangerous gain of function research at the Wuhan lab, worked with politicized elements within the intelligence community to suppress the truth about his actions and hide the virus's lab leak origins and lied to Congress while Under oath in 2024. It's time you know the truth, Victor. I guess we could go on a bit about Fauci and you do whatever you want, but I just wonder in the end, is it going to. Okay, that's my question. Do you think this matters?

[A]

Yeah, I think he's been testifying. I think from the time at which he was pardoned, he's either been asked questions or he will be asked questions that he can't tell the truth to without incriminating himself. And I don't think he'll take the. I don't know if he'll take the 5th or what, but if they bring him in, and I think they will, and they ask him point blank, as they have, I think they've asked him, did you or did you not channel Fontans for gain gain of function research at the Wuhan lab? Did you or did you not try to suppress arguments, theories, evidence that the origins of the virus occurred at the Wuhan lab? You could ask him all those, and if he didn't tell the truth, these would be perjury charges. After his pardon was granted by Joe Biden, the other everybody's making fun of people said, I don't think he's a criminal and a war criminal. But if you start looking at the COVID thing analytically, the way Scott Atlas does, or Jay Bacharya or Stephen Quay we've had on the show, and you just ask yourself, not in a biased fashion, just say the Vivis, was it man made? Yes. Where was it man made? It was man made in the Wuhan virus virology lab. Was the communist party involved? Yes. The People's Liberation army at some point took control of the lab. Did Europeans or Americans have anything to do with it? Yes. The French helped them build it. And there was instrumentation and expertise that was accorded from the United States. Not a lot of money, but some 600 and something through Peter Das Ex's Dasex nonprofit. Next question. Are you mean to tell me that this virus that killed over a million Americans and sickened 20 million with long Covid in some ways was subsidized either through expertise or travel to the lab or actual cash infusions from the United States at a time when that had been legally barred from occurring? Yes. Does that mean that Dr. Fauci and Francis Collins in some ways tried to hide that fact from the American people and at our expense advance a theory that it came from a natural source like a pangolin or a bat? Yes. Then when you come to that conclusion, what else can you think that Fauci was more worried about conducting gain of function and the best take on it would be something like this. Well, it's illegal here, but we have to learn about these viruses so we can make vaccinations. And they're doing it, so maybe they can stealthily serve as our surrogate. Or you could say, well, maybe they're going to use it for biological warfare means, so maybe we should keep tabs on it, something like that. But the point is they didn't want to talk about it. And ultimately they're responsible in some ways for that lab's leak by helping with the research that was banned in the United States and should never take place. Stephen Quay, remember he had testified against gain of function. His basic argument was not that it was not valuable, but in a cost to benefit analysis, it was too dangerous given the limited benefits. And now with AI, we have other means of ascertaining what viruses will do without creating dangerous ones in a lab with inadequate safety precautions.

[B]

Yeah, well, there was should be morality about experimentation. We certainly made him war crimes in World War II against the Nazis and the Japanese.

[A]

Well, I mean, he was a Dr. Frankenstein. He created a human. I mean, not a human, but he created a living organism that killed people. And so he didn't do it alone, but he was a participant in the creation of that SARS 2 virus. And that, Cyrus, is. We just had Stephen Quay on this show explaining how it would be very hard to make a virus in nature that was so infectious as the first round of that virus and how it was able to dumbfound it was if you looked at the human immune system and said, it's brilliant. If I was a virus rather than natural selection and Darwinism, how would I fast forward way ahead of that natural process and make a virus that could outsmart your immune system? And that's what they did. And then their excuse was, well, someday in the future there's going to be something like this and we'll have a vaccination for it. But what a gamble they took. And that's kind of a charitable version, you know, very charitable.

[B]

Well, Victor, we're going to take a little break and then we come back two topics. We're going to talk about these string of elections in South America and why they've happened and also the Reflecting Pool madness. And we'll do all that when we come back from these messages. We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. But to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the government that whenever any form of government becomes destructive

[A]

of these ends, it is the right

[B]

of the people to alter or to

[A]

abolish it and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and

[B]

organizing its powers in such form as shall to them seem most likely to affect their safety and happiness.

[A]

For the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each

[B]

other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor. Sacred honor. The Declaration that Defines a nation presented by the Daily Signal, premiering on YouTube July 2, 2026. We're back with Victor Davis Hanson in his own words on the Daily Signal Network. Victor's website. The Blade of Perseus. You'll find [e-mail] I strongly suggest you visit it and subscribe. If you're a fan of Victor's writing and the wisdom he shares on these podcasts. Excuse me. You will discover that twice a week Victor writes an exclusive article. They're Ultra articles for the Blade of Perseus and you could read all the archives of all the Ultra articles. I think that they're evergreen pieces, so check it out. 650amonth if you want to just test it that way. Or it's discounted for the full year at $65. There's tons of free stuff there. Also VictorHansen.com, the Blade of Perseus. And while I'm babbling about these things, if you're on X, Dhanson is Victor's handle. VDH's Morning cup is on Facebook. There's a wonderful friendly group there, the Victor Davis Hansen Fan Club. Also on Facebook. So check those things. Social media out. Victor's also on Truth Social and Instagram. He's everywhere. Victor7 Latin here. I'm looking from at an Expo7 Latin American elections. Since USAID was defunded, guess how they've all gone. Chile.

[A]

Jack, are you confusing cause and effect?

[B]

I'm always a confused man, but Chile, Bolivia, Peru, Ecuador, Honduras, Colombia, Costa Rica, they have all gone, say, right? Of course they are portrayed always as far right or Nazis or fascists, these candidates who win. But Victor, our tax dollars internationally and as we see domestically with all these social welfare programs, they are bankrolling badness and madness domestically and foreign. But anyway, a number of. There's a great trend going on in South America. Your thoughts on this?

[A]

It's so funny about the left because they're always talking about autonomy and let's not subvert the natural process of sovereign nations, let's not interfere in their internal affairs. And you hear that hundreds of millions of dollars was funneled through USAID that was usually run by retrograde revolving door cronies that came in and out of government on the left and got these plush jobs and then they were funding all of these cultural and social trans, gay, green dei, all these open borders, all of these agendas. And then directly hoping to have left wing candidates who then would turn around and hate the United States. And yet the people finally got sick of it there as well. Nobody gives credit to Trump, but actually if he had not been elected, you wouldn't see this. It's a phenomenon that people are looking at the United States and they see all the discord and everything. But you got a glimpse of that when the working classes came over to the United States, not just the elites in San Francisco or visiting Washington or New York, and they saw how prosperous. That's a nice view from well fed we are and how free we are. And then you look at the data and I don't think that message has got out. But we are racing ahead of Europe in per capita income and per capita gdp, in energy production, in cost of living, as far as power and food, food production, $31 trillion GDP and China is lagging behind. It's 10 trillion behind us. We're kind of in a renaissance. And when you look at, if you and I had this conversation, Jack, maybe, I don't know, five or six years ago and said, what's the future of AI? What's the future of robotics? What's the future of space travel, rocketry, satellite launching, cryptocurrency, bioengineering, we would have been doom and gloomwell. China spending more on R and D than we are. And now we're racing, surging ahead. Somebody gives Crump credit, but he went out to those grandees, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, David Sachs, Marc Andreessen, people like that. And basically he said to them, I don't know what your politics are, but I'm not like Biden. I don't pick and choose winners. And this is a wide open frontier. This is a Luce Libre, and I have only one. And I don't want to have antitrust and shut you down. And if you get caught up in Europe with those crazy censors, they're going to sue you. I will protect you. But you have to do one thing for me. You have to be nationalistic and try to out beat the competition and be American, American first. And if you can do that, you're my Henry Kaiser, my Henry Ford, my William Knudsen, my DuPont, all of world War. That's how we beat the enemy and that's how we're going to beat him again. That's what he did. And now we're seeing that we're going to build a third of them, Pete Hexas, a third of a million drones, maybe some as cheap as $5,000. We're going to build hypersonic missiles for a fraction of the cost in great numbers because we're turning loose these startup companies that are usually from people on the left side of the political spectrum and they've been, I don't know, enchanted by the idea. They have absolute freedom to become wealthy and to be protected from foreign governments, coercion. And it's going to be a dramatic revolution in American production. Then when you add the element that Pete and others are saying to them, we want quantity, quantity, quantity. We want quality. But we want to outproduce people like we did in World War II when we made more airplanes, 100,000 airplanes, United States fighter aircraft, bombers, 100,000 and 50,000 tanks and more ships than all the other navies of the world combined by 1945. We can do that again. The fact that they're young and they're idealistic, many of these entrepreneurs, is very exciting. And now you have Elon launching more satellites than the whole continent of Europe. In Bing West's interview, he was astounded. He's not necessarily a big fan of Trump, but he said that what is happening in the Defense Department with this radical shift from ossified large contractors like Raytheon, General Dynamics, Northrop, Lockheed, Boeing, to these smaller, more fluid, more adaptable companies that are in stiff competition. So the days of, well, let's dream up $170 million fighter and then we'll sell it to the military are gone. Now it's a military. What do you need? Oh, you need 300,000 robots. Okay, you need 400,000 drones. And you want a certain we'll do it, we'll figure a way out of doing it. It's a really exciting time. As far as the United States, I think we're in a renaissance. But it's very hard for people to see that when the media is so angry.

[B]

It's going to bust up the culture of the, of the brass also. Right. I mean, what's your aspiration is to sit on the board of Raytheon? I have. If maybe those days are over, I

[A]

think it's going to really hurt the cursus and norum of our four star class because I think, you know, you're a four star general, you may have had a long, long career, courageous in battle and all of these wars we've had, but you're going, you're going to get about a 225 and up thousand dollar pension. But the idea that you can go right out of the revolving door and join the board or the lobbying team of these big seven or eight contractors and then they expect you to call your former subordinates who are now in positions of authority and procurement, hey, remember me? I was your commander at Fort Blank Blank. We've got the best jet fighter there is and it's better. We want to, you know, we want you to be on our team. And that's incestuous. And I think people who revolve out should not be on corporate defense boards for 10 years or at least. But it doesn't really matter now. I think it's the natural process of competition is making them more and more obsolete. I think they're good companies, we need them. But the idea that you're going to shoot down, you know, a $20,000 or $5,000 drone with a $3 million patriot is insane. And they're coming up with Bing had in that interview. We had a lot of. Where was the interview? Right here. It's coming out.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Yeah. Bing west with his new book category. It's Cat 5 category 5 disaster and the 2033 war. He believes that we're going to be in war in about a decade if we don't get our budget under control and beef up the defense budget against China. Okay, Thursday, I think it is. Yeah. Oh, excuse me. I think it's this Wednesday. It'll be this Wednesday, 48 hours from when I'm speaking. So I think you'll like it because he's being as 86, he looks much younger and he's very active, but he's very excited at this point. And of course, his son Owen is at the eye of the storm. He is one of the chief proponents of mass production of affordable drones, robotics, et cetera.

[B]

Terrific.

[A]

The idea that you could take an oil tanker and just put a flat deck on it and then store underneath it thousands of drones, you know what I mean, and then sail it off somewhere in the South China Sea and then just launch. If you saw that the Chinese fleet was on its way to Taiwan, launch 10,000 drones, you know, they must have underwater drones also. Underwater. Yeah, underwater surface drones. The Ukrainians the other day say, we're happy to help you in the Gulf, the Strait, I mean, and we're making all of these surface drones and we have no, no use for them because we've destroyed so many Russian capital ships. They won't go out of port. So we control the seas, the Black Sea, essentially, with our drone fleet. And maybe you need them to stop these Iranian incursions into the Strait with their Mosquito Fleet remnants.

[B]

Well, I will see this with Bing. Bing has come on. Came on a number of National Review cruises. We became friendly. He's a great American, a warrior, a brave man.

[A]

I think he has, the dedication is 33 people that he served with in the Marines in Vietnam, and then he was embedded for years in Iraq and Afghanistan and they died. And then he's a member of our military history group and Contemporary Conflict group at the Hoover Institution. And I saw him, he didn't look well one year, and he was embedded with, I think he was about 80. He went all the way to Afghanistan and he got cholera and he almost died. And then he was right back. So he's led an incredible life and he has a lot of expertise and he's very excited in his eighth decade that finally, finally we're trying to say we're going to be concentrating on having more weapons than the enemy and they're going to be good weapons. But the day that we don't want to use a particular bomber because it cost a billion dollars are over with. We're going to try to find, you know, we're going to go back to the 1B24, built every hour at World War I and World War II, that kind of concept.

[B]

Well, let's close out today, Victor, with this reflecting pool madness. And Donald Trump on Truth Social wrote this this past weekend. Many additional people have been arrested having to do with the disgraceful vandalism of our beautiful reflecting pool. It hasn't looked or worked like this since 1922 when it was. Was originally built. And even then it didn't leaked. Ours work perfectly, including the mirror like finish, perfectly reflecting the two great monuments which it never had before. What these terrible vandals have done is a true affront to both presidents. Washington, Lincoln should be dealt with accordingly, et cetera. There's been a lot of effort to beautify, restore, clean up these various monuments in Washington. But I, I hate to act like it's all, it's just a reflecting pool, but the thought that the left has to destroy these things and main these things, they wouldn't do it while Biden was President Obama, but this is their way to give the middle finger to Donald Trump while destroying these great national.

[A]

I was thinking that, you know, during the iconoclastic movement, which is a fancy word for destroying statues or banning them, they were destroying. The left was destroying statues of Cervantes in Golden Gate park or Teddy Roosevelt. Remember it was removed. So I thought to myself when I saw them, you know, I don't have any problem with them destroying the statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest, who was, I mean, he reformed later in life. He kind of, you know, he saw when he had liver cancer. But the point I'm making is you can argue about Robert E. Lee and he had slaves and all that, but there were good aspects of him, the way he conducted war. He wasn't brutal in the sense of the modern wars. He didn't kill prisoners or any of that stuff. And James Longstreet was a tragic figure because he did not believe in slavery, he did not believe in succession, and yet he felt he had to fight as a loyal Southerner. But my point is it didn't matter to these people. They destroyed all these beautiful monuments. Richmond. Remember, you would go into Richmond and you'd have those beautiful statues that would blind both sides and they're mostly gone. And then you look and say, well, we know you on the left can create statuary, but can you create. I mean, you can destroy them, but can you create them? I was looking at, and I don't want to pick on the Obamas, but I looked at the statue of Michelle and Barack at the new library that had half of the artistic beauty of the statues that we've been tearing down. I don't think they can do that anymore. I don't think they have the classical techniques to create the type of statuary that they are destroying. They can throw paint on the Mona Lisa or something, but they cannot create the Mona Lisa. And they can light up a church in Washington, but they can't rebuild it very well. So they're a nihilistic party now and we don't know the full story. I'm told that they use water from the Potomac river so they don't have to pump it out of the ground. I don't know why they don't filter it. And it has innately algae. And then they have to use chemicals or they can't use chemicals. And the paint is. But there are reports, we know that somebody vandalized the adjacent lawn with that 8647, which you know can be either get rid of Trump or kill a Trump. But they arrested that former Olympian because he bit. They found. Found him. I mean, I didn't quite understand why would he be riding along the reflecting pool and then do put his hand in the water and rip up a piece of plastic lining? And then maybe he was just bewildered by it. But Trump has made the allegations that there are people who are vandalized either by throwing chemicals in it that are corrosive or algae or something. But it was beautiful for a short time. I'm sure it'll be fixed, but.

[B]

Well, it's true.

[A]

I used to get it the times I would go to Washington when I would go to Union Station and I looked at that fountain, I thought, man, this is disgusting. It was filthy dirty. It had graffiti over it. Now it's beautiful. And then when I first got there as a visiting professor at Annapolis, I'd come into the station and it was like a dream. It was spotless, you know, and they had all of those galleria of restaurants and stores. And then for a period when I went there, there were homeless people in it. It was filthy dirty, it was ruined. And now I'm told it's back to its original heyday again. Or it's getting there.

[B]

It's.

[A]

I haven't been there lately. But Trump is, he really does believe, like I was talking about Larry Arndt at Hillsdale. We think it's mundane, the infrastructure, but I think he's guided. I think the people around him are that if you inherit something from an ancestor and it's something of value, then you're obligated to preserve it. And then more importantly is that people react to their surroundings. That goes back to the broken windows, the. That even small incremental anti civilizational acts mount. They increase geometrically, not arithmetically. So if you see a nice building and somebody has got graffiti on it and they don't erase it, the next day there'll be more. I can speak very expertly on one matter. I didn't get a PhD in junk. But I feel I should deserve one. Because out here on the farm, it's just a truism. If I walk around at night or when I drive my pickup, if I would see a car seat in a strategic place and I didn't pick it out the next day, I would see a garbage bag on top of it. If I didn't get the garbage bag the next day, I'd see a sofa the next day, next day, next day. And finally, we would call them Little Mount Trash Mowers. They were everywhere. So the point was, you had to preempt. And why was that? Because there were people who were going around poor communities here, mostly undocumented, and saying, we'll pick up all your trash. You don't have to pay for the city. And then they would go out to the most accessible farm, look both ways on a Sunday morning or late Saturday night, and dump it all. And they would get, oh, you want to dump that pickup load? Hey, go out to that Hanson place. I dumped my stuff there. Nobody picked it up yet, so go ahead and add to it. So it was constant vigilance, and that was what human nature is. So if you let an institution, institution building or reflecting people start to go downhill, it'll be multiplied. It'll be not just incremental, it'll be insidious. The next thing, the next thing, the next thing will be graffiti and then trash. And so you have to stop it very early, in preemptive fashion. And you owe it to it. Every time I go to this pond that my great great grandmother purchased, and when we had it, that I had five siblings and they all sold their portions, and I'm the only one left. But I go by that pond, and when we owned it, it was beautiful. It had fish in it. We had a boat. We landscaped the shore. It was about an acre and a half. We actually dug it deeper until we hit an artesian level of water. And I go by the Owl Jack, and I want to vomit. It's not my property, but I feel obligated to walk around it. Sometimes there's trash floating. If there is water, most of the time it's dry. There's thousands of shells where people go down there and shoot and don't pick up the casing. It's just filthy dirty, and it's destroyed. And that's because it's got the reputation. And then when you go down there and you see somebody driving in, I think I related that anecdote. I said, what are you doing why do you have trash bags tied to the top of your car and your backseat? What are you doing? Are you coming on some property that's not yours? And they said, do you own it? And I said, I used to. You don't own it now. I'm looking for a bicycle. I said, no, you're not. There's nobody out here but you and me. And then. Okay. And then I walk away and they drive off. And then the next day I come back and they made a complete U turn and went and dumped it. And that's really. And that's the type people should remember. And I think they know better than I that civilization is very fragile. Has a very thin veneer. When you start to rip off that veneer everything. There's certain supermarkets that I go to in this area. And when you see the carts all scattered around the parking lot and trash in them, or when you go in the store and you have to pick and choose your cart because there's napkins or Kleenex or ads in the shopping cart, then you know that when you get into the store, that same laxity is going to be with meat that's too old or it's not going to be clean. When you go to a store and you see a guy running around and getting all the cart, are all the people, when you unload their groceries, they go. They trek back 100 yards and put their shopping cart back in the stall. Or when you go to pick out a shopping cart, they're all immaculate. There's no trash. Then you go into the store and you can see it's civilized maintenance and repair. That's what Trump is really good at. It's very, very important.

[B]

Also goes hand in hand, I think, with beauty.

[A]

We do have.

[B]

Monuments are supposed to be beautiful things, supposed to tell stories. Also we have to be vig. Because human nature is, as you say, you put trash here, it's going to breed more trash. But we have a right as a society to have these beautiful buildings.

[A]

That was what was so terrible about that national madness around the first six months after George Floyd, when you'd see those people just go out without. Even if they were a Southern general who supported slavery, you do it by law. You go to the city council, you make an argument, and then you get a vote of the city council and a majority. Then they get a city crew to go out and carefully remove it. You just don't go out there, a bunch of hooligans and put rope and topple it and then try to break it apart with sledgehammers. I mean it's kind of like out of the end of Rome people did that.

[B]

Well Victor, you've been terrific as ever. I've got a few comments to read that folks have put on YouTube and this podcast is on YouTube and you can find it at Truth Social. Also Rumble and you can listen to it on Apple, Spotify, wherever, everywhere. Helen Rand 7580 writes, I worry that the VP is not really interested in Israel, may even dislike Netanyahu. Israel should be able to defend itself. Israel has worked side by side with us. I agree with Mr. Hanson. Ted Karms writes, that story of feeding lodging the Swedes is the best VDH story I've heard yet. America really is a great place to live visit if you pick the right places. More of this, please. David Cole, 1475 writes, thank you for relating information about John Adams. He and his son Quincy are direct ancestors of mine. On my mother's side, I believe strong faith comes from deep family Christian roots, and it appears I have strong Christian background on both sides of my family tree. My parents were missionaries in Japan from 1937 until my mother died in 2017. I also have been a missionary in Japan for over 50 years. I'm thankful for my Christian background. That's cool anecdote. We have very interesting people that listen and watch the show. And finally, this is regarding your interview of Dr. Stephen Kuei. Mark Anthony Gibbon writes, they wouldn't let me in a nursing home to see my relative. While I was standing there, they let in a vendor to fill the vending machines. Thank you, Anthony Fauci, for yeah, I

[A]

mean, I don't want to, you know, I don't have, you know, personal clout or preferences. But if you had had somebody like Stephen Quay instead of Fauci at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious, we wouldn't have had that problem. He would have stopped that in two seconds. He would have as soon as that virus came out. If he had been director, he would have said, first thing we got to do is get a panel, and there's no rules, there's no limitations. You find out where this thing came from and I want an answer in two weeks. And then whatever the answer was, he would have released that information and then he would have consulted. But Fauci took that $50 billion budget and rewarded friends and punished enemies. And academics are not known to be brave people. So if you were doing a research project about COVID then you would put in your footnotes or in the text that this was a natural jump from an animal to a human. And then Dr. Fauci would fund it. And if you said anything otherwise, your lab would be probably shut down. He's a very pernicious person, and we didn't have to have that. And because he had been there for 40 years, he turned what was otherwise a rather obscure agency, the National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Disease. That could have been a great injury, but he turned it into a fiefdom that was really, in some ways more powerful than the National Institutes of Health or the CDC or the fda. I think he knows it, too. You see certain people who understand when they leave office or they're tenured out, they know what they did, and they kind of. I think another person like Fauci is John Bolton. When you see him now, he knows what he did was wrong. He knows that it was a result of hubris. He knows that he was an expert Washingtonian, and he knows that you don't go out of a classified meeting and then relate the contents of conversations through an unsecure email to your family for the purposes of profiting financially in a memoir and also hurting the president for whom you are working for. That's about as unethical as you can get. And when he speaks now, you can see that his face, his eyes. And by the way, our former colleagues are having them at this new security conference.

[B]

I saw that.

[A]

That might have to be conducted by Zoom.

[B]

I just saw that a little while ago, and I'm shaking my head, Victor. You know, the hubristic never seemed to get it, except at the end of Bridge on the River Kwai, where he realized, no, before the madness, where the colonel says, what have I done?

[A]

But Colonel Nicholson, yeah, very few people

[B]

ever admit that they will. You know, they. They will. Anthony Fauci is never going to say.

[A]

The closest was. There was a few. Few top officials that later gave hints that they knew what they had done was wrong. But not Fauci. I don't think Francis Collins ever. Redfield was kind of a tragic figure, but not very many. Dasak wasn't. He went down with a ship. He loaded the. All of the investigations from Lancet magazine were warped by intent. That was a really sad chapter in American life. And historians are going to write a lot about the damage to the economy. The damage to. It destroyed the. Just a final thought. When we were In January of 2020, we had just come off a number of foreign policy coups. ISIS had been eliminated. Soleimani back. I guess it was. We had dealt, I think we'd already dealt with the Wagner group. We were already jawboned NATO about spending. And the economy was really set to boom. Inflation was about 1.3, GDP was rising, unemployment was low, minority unemployment was low. Affordability was not an issue. And that thing came out of nowhere, Quote, unquote nowhere. Every once in a while the conspiratorial side of my brain says, do you think the Chinese were terrified of Donald Trump and they released this during his administration? I don't know. But everything about it is cloaked in mystery and enigma.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And how the science community reacted, the intellectual scientists, those magazines, JAMA and other medical journals. Low moments for our elite. Well, Victor, you've been terrific. Always are. I want to thank you for all the wisdom you shared today. And I want to thank people who've written me Signs of Appreciation of Civil Thoughts, the free weekly email I write every week. That's why it's weekly for the center for Civil Society, comes out every Friday and has 14 recommended readings. Great articles I've come across in the previous few days. So check it out. Not for sale. Totally free. We're not stealing your name, selling your names. Go to civilthoughts.com and sign up for it. Thanks, Victor. We'll be back soon with another episode of Victor Davis Hansen in His Own Words. Bye bye.

[A]

Thank you everybody for listening and watching. Thank you for tuning in to the Daily Signal. Please like share and subscribe to be notified for more content like this. You can also check out my own [e-mail] and subscribe for exclusive features in addition.