← Victor Davis Hanson: In His Own Words
Victor Davis Hanson: In His Own Words
Victor Davis Hanson with Devin Nunes: How Republicans, Trump Can ‘Defy All The Odds’ in 2026
00:58:40
Former Rep. Devin Nunes, R-Calif., shared insight into his work with President Donald Trump’s social media and crypto company merging with TAE Technologies, a company focused on nuclear fusion power.
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- [00:00]
Devin Nunes
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- [00:04]
Victor Davis Hanson
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- [00:06]
Devin Nunes
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- [00:13]
Victor Davis Hanson
And if you have to stay in a remote place with your in laws.
- [00:16]
Devin Nunes
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- [00:31]
Victor Davis Hanson
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- [00:34]
Tony Kennett
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- [00:36]
Devin Nunes
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- [00:39]
Victor Davis Hanson
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- [00:42]
Devin Nunes
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- [00:48]
Tony Kennett
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- [00:55]
Devin Nunes
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- [00:57]
Tony Kennett
Visit LifeLock.com podcast terms apply.
- [01:12]
Victor Davis Hanson
Hello everybody. This is Victor Davis Hansen in his Own Words podcast. I'm solo today. Sammy and Jack are not with me. We're going to have a hiatus coming up as I attend to some things, but we're very fortunate to have once again former congressman, head of the House Intelligence Committee, CEO of Truth Social and the Trump Media Group, Devin Nunes. And we're going to talk to him about three exciting things. We're going to try to tap his expertise as somebody who was in the US House of Representatives for 19 years, I think. Wasn't it, Devin? Yeah, something like that. And then he was chairman on the House Intelligence Committee five years. Are you still the youngest person in California history to ever be on a JC board?
- [02:01]
Devin Nunes
Close to it, yeah. I had 25 years of elected service, six years on local community college, and then.
- [02:07]
Victor Davis Hanson
Yeah, and you started at 23, didn't you?
- [02:10]
Devin Nunes
Yep, at 23. And then spent, you know, nearly 20 years in, in the House. And, and now I'm also chairing the President's Intelligence Board, so. That's.
- [02:22]
Victor Davis Hanson
That's right.
- [02:22]
Devin Nunes
I have a government role also in the Trump administration now.
- [02:26]
Victor Davis Hanson
And we're going to get to the most exciting part. If you'll stick with us, and I think you will, we're going to talk about the true social in the middle. And then there's a very exciting initiative that you've read about that Devin is going to explain to us about Fusion Power. Remember, that's not splitting an atom, but it's combining two atoms and I'm sounding like a juvenile physicist, but it gives you a lot more energy at a magnitude more energy with less radiation. And Devin's going to be part of that initiative. And we'll get right back after this message.
- [03:02]
Tony Kennett
Hey folks, it's Tony Kennett, national correspondent for the Daily Signal and host of the Tony Kennett cast. I need to share something with you. Our goal at the Daily Signal is simple. To cut through the noise and give you the facts you need to stay informed as engaged citizens. Unlike so many liberal media outlets, we're honest about our conservative views and report the news with a commitment to telling you the truth.
- [03:24]
Victor Davis Hanson
But.
- [03:24]
Tony Kennett
But I'll be straight with you. Running an independent news operation isn't easy. While big media companies have corporate sponsors and massive bloated budgets, we operate differently. We answer to you, our audience and supporters. That independence is exactly what allows us to tackle the stories others won't touch and ask the tough questions others often avoid. But our independence comes with a challenge. We need your help to ensure the Daily Signal can continue to counter the liberal media's lies with the the truth. Every deep dive investigation, every exclusive interview, every fact check we publish requires time and investment. If you've found value in what we do, if the Daily Signal has helped you stay informed or given you insights you couldn't find elsewhere, would you consider supporting our work with a donation today? Even a small monthly contribution makes a real difference in our ability to bring you the journalism you deserve and expect. You can support our work by visiting dailysignal.com that's dailysignal.com donate. Every dollar goes directly into making sure we can continue serving you with the reporting you've come to count on. Please go to dailysignal.com donate and give your gift today.
- [04:39]
Victor Davis Hanson
So we're back with Devin Newman. Devin, does it seem to you in the last two or three weeks I looked at the Inside Advantage, Insider Advantage poll that had Trump at 50%. I know that people it's not a mainstream, but it's actually one of the most accurate polls given its history and he's up at 50%. We had 4.3 economic growth in the third quarter. Inflation went down from 3% to 2.7. He inherited it in January before he got in. It was a monthly 3%, 5.2 over the Biden tenure per year. It just seems that with a foreign investment, deregulation, tax reductions in the big beautiful bill, the tariff revenue and all this oil and gas new AI fusion, we're going to talk about. Don't you think that things are starting to, the momentum is starting to shift back and that he, that he has a good chance of keeping the House. You're the House expert, so let us know.
- [05:41]
Devin Nunes
Well, let me start with. Historically, it's very difficult for a majority in the Congress to keep that majority when you have the same president. In fact, I think the last time that that was done was in the middle of the Iraq war. It was actually my first re election, as I recall. Was it my first. It was my first election that Bush was able to keep the majority.
- [06:11]
Victor Davis Hanson
2002, as I remember. Yeah.
- [06:12]
Devin Nunes
And then he turned around was one reelection in 2004. And then in 2006, the Republicans lost the majority. Then if you look back, you know, happened to Obama. Republicans came back into power in 2010 in the midterms. Same thing happened to Trump in his first term where the Republicans lost the, had control of the House. Lost control of the House. And so, you know, now here we are. And the president has to defy President Trump, has to defy history, which is possible because it has happened, you know, some 20, a little over 20 years ago. It did happen. And I think you're on to something, Victor. The number one issue that will matter is the economy. And you're exactly right. The big beautiful bill, which is largely built off the original tax bill that passed in Trump's first term, that was a transformational tax package. This codifies a lot of that original legislation from 201718 into law. And it makes it just a lot, a lot easier, simpler tax code. And so what does that mean? And in the big picture here, it means that you can deploy capital. The flow of capital will all flow easier, which I think is why you've seen this robust economic growth that surprised everybody in the third quarter. And I think you're going to continue to see that happen now with all that said, with a strong economy, and we're going to get a really strong economy. And if you have safety abroad, which the president. You talk a lot about this on, on, on your podcast. The combination of strength abroad and a strong economy would put Republicans in a position to, to defy all the odds and potentially win. Now, as you well know, there's only everybody. There's 435 seats in the House. But the reality is, even though those are all up for election, as you know, Victoria, most of those are not really. Yeah, they're on the ballot, but they're, they're basically drawn to elect a Republican or a Democrat or vice versa because of the overwhelming numbers. So when you really get down to it, I think there's probably about 50 seats that could potentially change hands, but really it's probably even less than that. It may only be 30 or 40 seats that could potentially change hands. Now with a two or three seat majority the Republicans have now, this thing could go either direction, which is why you've seen the Democrats work hard to redistrict California to try to gain an edge. You've seen the Republicans in places like Texas. Sounds like even maybe Florida will do that first part of the year. So nationally, red states are doing what they can to, to elect as, create as many Republican districts as possible. And that really builds off of what the Democrats have done for the last 40 years where they've taken states like Massachusetts and others that are heavy blue states and annihilated the Republicans, even though a Republican might get 40% in the state of Massachusetts. We haven't had a House seat in Massachusetts since long before I was elected in 2002. So that's going to be the trend here. We'll see where it all plays out. But basically what that does is that could take that 50 number and really drop it, you know, so if you start talking about down to 30 seats that are actually up for, for, that are going to be competitive, you're going to have an unprecedented amount of spending in those districts and then it's going to come down to, you know, who has the right message. Do you run on the strength of the economy and, and, and being respected abroad and have good candidates, good candidates that are, that also are local, that understand the local issues that are saying, look, we're not only going to continue, and I'm speaking now as if I was a candidate, you know, not only are we strong abroad, we want to keep that up. Not only do we have this growing economy, but I, running for office, I understand these local issues that matter to you, that's the winning message. And it's going to look even in one way or the other, I'd say that Republicans, if they keep the House, will not have more than a 10 seat majority. And I think if the Democrats were to retake the House, it'd probably be the same thing. No more than a 10 seat majority. That is assuming that the economy continues to grow. Right. If there were, if the economy did sputter, that would be bad news, you know, for the, for the Republicans. But I, I don't, I don't see that happening right now. I think the Republicans are well positioned as they've ever been with a, with a very strong leader in President Trump who as you know, Victor is of all the things that, that people criticize him for and give him credit for, they don't actually give him credit for the one thing that, that is most important and that is that he just flat out works everybody else. He's working seven days a week. I mean, you know, you just saw that he's going to meet was announced this morning. He's going to meet with Zelensky on Sunday at Mar a Lago. I mean, these are things that are, that are. I just never seen a president work this hard.
- [11:46]
Victor Davis Hanson
I was looking at the statistics from the Harris when she was took over in mid July and he had about six times more public appearance, six times more than she did. And she was much, much younger. So that was one of the keys to his success. Let me ask you a couple of questions. When you were there, you were the first person to explain, I think explain not just fine, but explain what Russian collusion was. And you were, I think, the only person you got really hammered not just by the left but by, you know, places that I was writing for National Review and never Trumpers that became never Trumpers and stayed that way. But you were you exposed the Russian collusion hoax. And it's all been now from the revelations that they were meeting with Obama. We didn't know at the time and, and he was telling Brennan and Clapper and Comey to reject their subordinates assessments that there was no collusion. But when you look at all of that and then look at the Democratic Party today, as bad as all that was, do you think did you ever imagine a Jasmine Crockett or a Squad or all these people when you were in Congress or is the Democratic Party even more far gone than you had to deal with? It seems to me that it's just lunatic now.
- [13:16]
Devin Nunes
Yeah, it's an interesting trend. When I first arrived to Washington, Bernie Sanders was in the House, who was a socialist, and he then ran for the Senate shortly after I arrived. But he was a loner. He was in the back. He didn't have any friends. Nobody ever, everybody thought he was nuts, even the Democrats. You had a, the kind of the extreme left fringe was led by somebody, one of the leaders who I actually knew, Barney Frank, longtime congressman from Massachusetts. But Barney Frank was someone that you could, you could disagree with him, but he believed in what he was talking about. Like he could explain his positions as it led to the famous Dodd Frank Banking act that that was passed. So what's what they've replaced themselves with. The Barney Franks have been replaced by people that are extreme left but with no ability to explain their politics so, or their positions, their policy positions. So it's really become a, a, I almost call it a. It's the, the extreme liberals have been replaced by neo Marxists who are political tacticians who will say and do anything, almost Stalin esque to get, to get elected. And that's really the difference here. And look the example that brought that on. Remember when a lot of people. This is lost to the dustbin of history now, but when AOC won her primary in New York, I can't remember what year that was. Now that was like in, I think.
- [15:09]
Victor Davis Hanson
18, 20, 20 maybe. Can't remember.
- [15:13]
Devin Nunes
Yeah, it was either 18 or 20. But the, the thing is, is that she beat a guy that was, that was positioned. He was a very liberal Democrat, traditional liberal Democrat, white guy from, from New York, very close to Pelosi. He was the one that was supposed to be the next speaker of the House, the next leader of the Republican of the Democratic Party. And his name was Crowley, Joe Crowley.
- [15:44]
Victor Davis Hanson
Yep, I remember him.
- [15:46]
Devin Nunes
And he lost in a primary. So he had a very liberal guy, sophisticated guy that lost to AOC in. And he was the heir apparent to the Pelosi throne. And so the AOCs have come in, the Crockets have come in. And so now you have a plethora of neo Marxists that have been elected to the Democratic Party. And that's why you see them grabbing on to, you know, they've went beyond from just abortion and guns which seem to unite them into now the transgender stuff, the extreme global warming stuff, all the way to crazy positions on, on radical Muslims, on Somalis, on immigration, all the stuff that you talk about on the show. They've now embraced a plethora of crazy stuff that in the end result in death and destruction. And I don't say that lightly, but I think you and I understand what that means because we've seen it here in California where. And it's hard to explain, Victor. You know, we've watched in California, the states. The state has gone from the preeminent state 30 some years ago in terms of economics and growth led by strong Republican governors to now things that really impact the pocketbook, from gas prices to all energy prices to lack of water for no reason that we can, that we've talked about and you talk about many times. So you have people that are, that are in California that continue to vote for the same policy so it shows that Marxism works. It's working very well in California to keep people in power. And the worse the state does, the worse the policies are, the more the people in California say, wow, this is great. I want higher gas prices, I want higher electricity prices. And they continue to just vote for the same people more and more and more. So I can't explain it, you're the historian. But Marxism has, has worked in the past, and it's working very well here in California. It's working well in New York City, it's working well in Chicago, all places that have resulted in death, destruction, poverty. And you see the poverty here in California. And look, when I say death and destruction, you know, it wasn't global warming that brought on those massive fires just a year ago. No, in Los Angeles that resulted in. In, in death and destruction. So it's. It's hard to explain. But then I spend, as you know, True Socials, headquartered in Florida, and I go to Florida, you know, once or twice a month, and then I'll go to Washington D.C. to fulfill my other roles there, and then back to California. And it's like a. It's like the tale of like three different worlds that you see. And you wonder, how is this the. How is this United States of America? I go to Sarasota, Florida. It's safe. You know, if there's an accident, six sheriffs show up. There's no toleration of crime. It's the electricity costs are 20% less or 20, 20% of what it is here in California. Gas prices. I've never paid $3 more than $3 a gallon for gas in, in Florida.
- [19:18]
Victor Davis Hanson
Six, six dollars we did in, in Palo Alto. But, you know, in California's defense, we have 16 of the population, but 1/3 of all the welfare represent. So. And then 40% of everybody in the state is on MEDI CAL. 50% of all the BIR. We have the largest number of homeless, we have the largest number of illegal aliens, and we have no middle class. So we have people voting for entitlements. And then a very wealthy group, the coastal elite, has the money to pay for them because they don't. Maybe they feel guilty or whatever. Then the middle class is leaving at the rate of 3 or 400,000 a year. We're going to get right back to Devin Newsom. Oh, God. I said Devin Newsom.
- [20:07]
Devin Nunes
Geez, Victor.
- [20:09]
Victor Davis Hanson
Well, I've. I've had a little. This would be a really cheap shot, but I've had a little health issue that apparently went from my lung to my brain. Devin Nunes and we'll be back in a minute. We're back for our second section of our Devin Nunes. We try to do this every few months to check in with Devin. He's a neighbor of mine. I was a long, long time constituent of his district until I was redistricted out of it. So what's a couple things on Truth Social. What is going on right now? We'll get to the Fusion aspect in our final segment. But how's everything going at Truth Social? And more importantly, how do you deal with all of this European stuff where people are trying to have you had any pressure from the Europeans that to self police what you guys do in the way that they do with other social media or is it just people who have branches, affiliates inside Russia, I mean inside Europe?
- [21:11]
Devin Nunes
Well, on that, on that account, you know, we have not been affected directly, but we have indirectly. So Rumble, which is a close partner of ours, which you are, you know, your podcast is also on Rumble. It is a, there has, France has been very hostile to Rumble. So there are, there are some, sometimes we are impacted, but for the, for the most part we've been left unscathed for now. But I'm very happy to see what Marco Rubio is doing, which is to go in and, and, and put on, put them on, put the people who are conducting this censorship onto, you know, basically not allowing them to travel into the United States. I think this is a very strong move by the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio and the Trump administration. But, you know, big picture, you know, we were a company that was stood up out of necessity. You know, I always tell people that President Trump didn't need a company, public company especially. I didn't need a new job, but we all needed a way to open up the Internet. So this company's really been at the tip of the spear to when I say open up the Internet, when we say, well, what does that mean? It means that there were, it wasn't just President Trump that was banned from every platform. People like myself were either outright banned or shadow banned and there were millions of Americans that had been banned. Furthermore, there at the time when we stood this company up as just a small startup, places like Newsmax 1America News, Real America's voice could not get onto any streaming platform, could not get onto the cable companies or anything so that you could not see these channels in your home. Now, President Trump winning has changed a lot of that. A lot of these, these networks are now getting placed back onto It. So we had to build a platform for both social media and streaming that did not rely on big tech. So we had to build it all in house, all ourselves. And we did that and stood that up globally. And this was after a lot of people, you know, we stood up. True social was started. You know, we, we went live. We, we finally got out. I say we didn't really open fully until. And that's just the true social component that didn't open until the end of 2022 because Google wouldn't let us into their, into the Google Play Store. So you could get us on Apple in the spring of 22 but. And you could get us on the web but you. We weren't allowed in the Google Play Store until I think it was October of 22 as I recall.
- [23:57]
Victor Davis Hanson
And that was just to interject that was during the Jack Daugherty Twitter pre X days when you were the only alternative until.
- [24:09]
Devin Nunes
That's right. So if you. It was actually we got into Apple, the Apple App Store before and then after the, in the summer is when Elon bought X or Twitter. And then we finally got into the Google Play Store at the end of 2022. And then it took us. But then at the same time, a lot of people forget that, that there, there had been announced, the president had announced that he was going to create this public company and go public via spac. That was when I was still in Congress. When I came out, we were embroiled in these ridiculous investigations that had impacted the company. So what, they stalled. They stalled us from being a public company. Now what did that mean? Well, we were supposed to get $250 million, $280 million when we went public. Instead we didn't have that access to capital. So we, you know, we created a very. In some ways it made us stronger. Even if it was wrong, it was un American. It's definitely not something that should, that the SEC should have ever allowed under the Biden regime. But a lot of people think, oh well, the company was public. No, that was a spac. That wasn't us. We actually didn't go public until about a year and a half ago. So we had to fight the SEC for nearly three, three over three years. And we finally went public in the spring of 24, which then gave us access to capital. So that helped us to finish our streaming platform. So now we have an interactive, interactive couple apps that are both Truth Social and Truth plus that are open globally. So we take Newsmax, GB News, Real America's Voice, and then now we're working with Great American Family. We have a, I think one of the most sophisticated, best apps that are out there that are available on, on any, basically anything now on from your iPad to your iPhone to your Samsung to your Roku. And it's very, very high quality. And I think some of the best technology out there all owned and operated by us. So we don't rely on anybody else to get that streaming out there. So now we have social media groups combined with the streaming. So what. The company was started to save free speech. We save free speech in the process over the last year and a half we, we raised a lot of capital. We put together one of the biggest funds that's ever been done, about a two and a half million, two and a half billion dollar raise that we finished this summer. And then that put us in position. We said from the very beginning when we went public is that look, we say free speech now we're going to go out, we're going to build these big assets and we're going to look for the next big crown jewel asset. And that's what led us into this conversion of what I call where technology is now, now intersecting with, with reality, with lack of energy. So these two things are colliding where I think Silicon Valley, all your friends in Silicon Valley and all the left now all of a sudden they were all big into electric cars and you know, no coal fired power plants, no natural gas. We're going to have windmill solar panels. Well, reality has hit them hard in the face and that is that China now is producing three to four times the amount of power that we do as a country. It's a lot cheaper than we are as a country. Windmills, solar panels don't work. You have to have something to carry the baseload of power. So while China built coal plants, gas plants, nuclear power plants, we did none of the above. And instead now it's made us less competitive industrially, but for sure for it's raised prices to consumers as you see in California. And then finally what do you do now when you need all this AI compute power? And I don't know, Victor, I don't know who's right. I don't know if it means we're going to need 10% more power as some people say that are doubters of AI but other people that believe in AI are saying we're going to need three times as much power. Well, one thing's for sure, we're going to need a lot more power, not less. And it's too expensive today. So like I call our company, we've been at the tip of the spear. We were created out of necessity. We only do big things. So we positioned ourselves with a lot of capital. We solved the free speech component. Then we went out and looked for the best technology out there. We focus heavily on the energy sector and I looked at what is going to be around in the long run for our shareholders and that's how we. Not for our shareholders only, but what's in the best interest of our shareholders but also in the best, best interest of the American people. And since our company was stood up on those principles, mission driven, this puts us squarely in the fight for the next 10 to 20 years of where you have this strange intersection of technology with lack of energy. And the company that, that we're merging with called TA Technologies is exactly that. They are the world's premier fusion nuclear power company. And you know, we're just well positioned now to lead that effort. And I think combining of the two teams is a good combination. I know we're going to, we're going to get to that. But, but that's really the, the, the shortest story that I can give on kind of True Social's beginnings to, to Truth plus to the, to the money that, that we raised in order to, to go acquire a crown jewel asset. And that's where we sit here, you know, at the end of 2025 after, after really, you know it's a lot of, lot of attacks by the fake news and everything else. But name me a company that's done that in a year and a half and you won't find one in history because no company ever had to be stood up like this company because we were formed out of necessity.
- [30:09]
Victor Davis Hanson
Well, we're going to get right back to our final segment that's going to be on this merger between two Social and the fusion power industry. The preeminent producer of what will be soon fusion power. We'll be right back. And we're back. And I was looking the other day about what the AI people said, Devin and you know a large power plant is a thousand megawatts and that they were predicting that they needed 100 of them every year. Every year. And I think we put about 10 of them a year now at most. And so what you're talking about is something equivalent to the Manhattan Project or Hoover Dam. It's one of the biggest initiatives, multi, multi billion if not a trillion dollar agenda. And it's the only way that the United States is going to have a chance to reach parity in AI with China. Because our weak link is not the technology and not the brain power or the university research environment, but it's, it's power. You're absolutely right. I think people don't really understand what China's doing. They are creating a massive solar panel wind turbine industry, selling their products below the cost of production to Europe, the United States and other western countries, destroying our, not just our own industries, but creating market share, then not, not commiserately using their own products, but building two to three coal or nuclear plants per month and funding a lot of activist groups that oppose nuclear and coal production in the west. And there's nothing sadder for me every week to drive down Manning Avenue and see this beautiful thousands of acres of farmland and this huge solar panel plant near the California coast ranges. And then you know, we had, I think it was 16 days without the sun and then we have this rain going on, no production to speak of. And then I go over Pacheco Pass and I see these multimillion dollar huge turbines and half the time they're not moving. And yet the Chinese are exporting that technology to us while they do not want to use it fully themselves. I had a question, Dev. As far as the pragmatics go, what do you see as a timetable and the magnitude when you say you guys have merged Truth Social or have been absorbed or whatever term is proper in this new partnership? What's the magnitude of investment in terms of millions, billions of dollars of capital that'll be needed for this new entrepreneurial endeavor? And more importantly, when do you see an actual plant going into production?
- [33:18]
Devin Nunes
Yeah, let me break it down. So, so we are Trump media and technology group. We have everybody knows true social, we also have true streaming. We also have, you know, two and a half billion dollar bitcoin treasury that we put together in the summer. We also have a, we rolled out some, some what we call kind of red state ETFs that we're, that we're working on and SMA sort of a financial army that we put together those as we went out and looked for this crown jewel asset. And like I said in the last segment, we, we wanted to solve big problems. This company does, you know, only big things and we pick the most important issue at the highest level. And I say tip of the spear, we really are the tip of the spear because we're the only ones leading in this area. Just like we let on free speech, we're now leading on energy because this, you can't have the technology without the energy like we, like we talked about. So when we. I've always been a big believer in nuclear power, Victor. In fact I was the one who introduced legislation to that. I thought we should fast track 200 nuclear reactors. That legislation I started working on almost 20 years ago. Fukushima happened and it kind of derailed that effort. So that would have been the traditional thousand megawatt reactors, fission reactors. So I've always believed in nuclear power and we started looking at it and fusion although it's, it's old science because it really was discovered even before the Manhattan Project. But you, it led to the Manhattan Project in there. They, they as you, as you know this history better than me. But they first developed the, the first weapons were developed in fission and then they did the one with. That actually used fusion. And then Admiral Rickover in the 1950s really electrified the, the Navy with atomic power and then proved, you know, he was really the leader that proved that it could work on land also. And that led to this renaissance of, of reactors that were built all over the world. But, but especially here in the United States. Three Mile island happened then. It was not in my backyard then. It was this whole cult of alarmism with, with we needed global warming. You know, global warming was on setting so we needed solar panels and windmills because that was supposedly clean even though it's not. We won't digress into that. But thankfully TAE Technologies, they started looking at this in the early 90s and looking at the science that had been basically was just at the academic level in the universities and they said look, we think we can make nuclear fusion actually work. And they started in the 90s. Company was formed in the late 90s with it with an all private investment. And that was one of the things that I really like about this company. So Chuck Schwab who I know you know and everybody's familiar with, he was some of the initial money that went into this project along with, with some other family offices. Later stage capital was raised from Google and, and Chevron. And so this company has been there and now has had breakthroughs. So they've built five prototypes. They're on their fifth one now. They finished their fifth one. They've been testing it down in Irvine and now they're ready to go to a commercial reactor. And that's where we came, that's where we came in. Because they've essentially got the company over over 27 years to a point where now they need to be public, they need capital and we need to get this out there to the, to the masses. And so as we were looking at different crown jewel assets, I was impressed with this team. It's got 1600 different patents, it has 400 engineer scientists, etc. They, they have just that from the nuclear proving how well they've done with these patents and getting to where they are in the nuclear fusion. They actually have, have developed new technology in power management because in order to get these, the plasma moving and control the plasma, you need large amounts of power. So that led to other patents and inventions. They also have had some breakthroughs in treating, treating very tough to treat cancers. And so they have a life science division, they have a power management division in addition to the nuclear fusion which is the crown jewel that we all, that we all want to get to. So you know, we trade under the ticker symbol djt Trump Media Technology Group. Over the next few months we'll go through the SEC process and we will bring them in under our umbrella. And then to get to your timeline, we expect to start site and construction of the first commercial reactor that's designed to be 50 megawatts. And I'll come back to that in a second. But we're looking now at. Just got off a call earlier, just going through. Okay, what are the states that make the most sense for this? What are the common denominators that we would need no matter what site we choose? And, and that would be a 50 megawatt, the first commercial reactor. The designs are actually, and you'll like this because it'll mean something to you, they believe the optimal size for this reactor, once we prove out the 50 megawatt version of it, that would burn boron by the way, which is, you know, not radioactive and it would burn clean, would be in the 350 to 500 megawatt range. So what does that. And these, and these things are not very big. You can go on tae.com and you can see what they look like because they've built them, they're not very big. So you're talking about, you know, maybe 10,000 square feet is kind of the size that you need for the entire reactor now. You need some additional capacity for the generation and everything like that. But you know, you're looking at say a 20 acre site. Victor, we could put it on your, put it on your farm. Except we're not going to go to California. I was wondering why that was unfortunately. But you know, unlike what you see at these big nuclear sites or even the coal fire sites, you need hundreds and hundreds of acres. These are, these are very small footprints in comparison. And when you start talking about, you know, 350 to 500 megawatt, I mean that's, you know, that could, there's a lot of demand for it and the, it would produce power that would be competitive to, to gas and, and, and coal. And I think that's the sweet spot, that's where you want to be. So I come back to it doesn't matter whether you think AI is going to be 10% more power or double the power. Nuclear fusion is the answer. And I call it Manhattan 2.0 for our competitive survival, our ability to survive globally against China. It's a way for us to catch up. That's why I say we're at the tip of the spear. We're leading this effort. We have the public company, we have the capital. We will now we'll have all these other investors that will be in this company as this deal closes. And I think, you know, we'll, we're, it's already going to be the world's, it's already the world's premier fusion company. But I think when you look at long term plays that cross technology and energy, DJT Trump Media Technology Group with TAE will be the big player over the next 10 to 20 years in this arena.
- [41:06]
Victor Davis Hanson
It's very fascinating because it has kind of a different concept that instead of making these huge 1,000 megawatts, 2,000 are kind of modular. And people have even talked as, as I was reading this week, they've even talked that some of these AI companies might want their own mini reactor, you know, on site or nearby to, to be almost self sufficient in power as well as productive capacity. That's, that's really interesting.
- [41:35]
Devin Nunes
Yeah, and it is, but it's not for us. You know, could we do that? Yes, but, but we're really positioned to replace the base power and add to the base power in this country.
- [41:47]
Victor Davis Hanson
What?
- [41:47]
Devin Nunes
Right? I mean at 350 to 5, if, you know, if, if at 50 megawatt then yes, that would make sense to go on site with a data center and maybe, look, maybe it will make sense that that's where we would ultimately be. But right now we need to just build the first commercial reactor, you know, fill in all the logistics and the, and the beauty of this. When I talk about logistics and supply chain. This is not only American technology, Victor, but unlike a lot of the things that you see out there that need rare earth elements that China has gobbled up all over the globe, this doesn't this does not need even the permits that it would take for a, for a big atomic nuclear power plant. This is more like an MRI machine. The magnets inside are magnets that are easily, easily accessible. And that's another thing quality that I like about this company is they started with the end in mind, built this accordingly. And you know, a lot of the other, you either need the other companies that are out there and we're all for them because we, we need this to work as a country. But they're looking for real breakthroughs in the fission process that haven't occurred, or they're looking for different types of fusion that's been studied in the past. That's going to take a lot of rare earths. This is the only one, in my opinion that is practical, that's on, that's on a time frame that makes sense. That could, because they've built five of these. So they know, as you know, from, from agriculture, it's one thing to, you know, have something in theory that might work in a, in a, on paper, but when you get it out there in the field, it has to actually function. And you have the environment of, you know, wind and dirt and dust and you know, rain. The good thing about what TE's done, because they built five of these, they're a long way down the road, far ahead of, of, of everybody else. And I say that, people ask me what's the, you know, who are the competitors to this company? And I actually say there, there's not another company that's a competitor, there's only a country and that is China. Because we don't know how much money China has put into nuclear fusion. But my guess is it's a lot. And so we are really in a race. This company now will be leading the effort for the United States against China and the whole, you know, the whole power of the Chinese government behind what they're doing. And this one is actually private sector, which it's had to be because our government, the United States government, has been hostile towards nuclear for so long that it had to be the private sector that got it to this, this point. And I think that's why it's so far along is because it's not a government program, it's not a government built program. Even though I say this is really the Manhattan Project 2.0 because it's building off that science and technology from some 75 years ago. It's just been the private sector that's gotten it to this point.
- [44:52]
Victor Davis Hanson
So yeah, we're down to one reactor in California. We used to be the leader and we're down to Diablo Canyon and they were going to shut it down. And even Gavin Newsom realized that would destroy the grid if he did that. But I had an interesting email from a reader when I was mocking these huge solar and wind farms and he said basically, I can't quote the email literally, but the reader, the listener who wrote me basically could be his letter, could be the synopsis would be, well, don't make fun of the wind and solar plants because there's one good thing about them. A, they've already had imminent domain and they own vast acreages and two, they already have an electrical grid delivery system. And three, they could be easily replaced by fusion or some other type of technology. And, and you have the infrastructure, you have the land. And it would make California, because they have so many of these and they're the biggest in the states, it would make them preeminent. But that's not going to happen, of course, unless you have a Republican governor. And even then it would be difficult given the makeup of the legislature and the courts.
- [46:04]
Devin Nunes
Well, the listener makes a good point in that it's not the most efficient use of capital, but there are plenty of places now around the United States that that could use this. But you know, this is, and this gets to the data center question there, there's these data centers are going in where there's abundant, cheap and abundant power. And so, you know, being able to plug into the grid at those locations where you're going to suck up lots of power. I'm not sure that they'll actually be on site, the same site as a data center or if they'll just be, you know, on site or in the, in the nearby range of these mass transition transmission capability of power where you're just plugging into the existing grid with these nuclear fusion reactors. But the good news is, is we have time for that. What we don't have time for is we've got to get this first reactor built and size and scale it up to 350 to 500 megawatts. If we do that, it will be I, I view this as a winner take most play and that whoever cracks this code, whether it be us or the Chinese, is going to own the global market. And you could see the Chinese would be real quick to, you know, basically just like they've done, you know, up to now, they're going to replace all their own first and add to their own before they export any of that technology. So we would be at a tremendous, tremendous disadvantage that we already are at a disadvantage because of China's power creation. Energy creation.
- [47:51]
Victor Davis Hanson
Yeah, I had. We're almost out of time, but I have two final questions. One, what is the time frame? Do you think that they'll actually break ground on a electrical generation fusion plan of that magnitude, say 300 to 500 megawatts?
- [48:07]
Devin Nunes
So the, the plan now is, is to site the first. The first location. And you never want to lock yourselves in, but start construction of that in 26, you know, right now that would, you know, over the course of the next three, four, five years, that would be. You prove that out on how that would all be done. Now in conjunction with that, once you have the breakthroughs that you need, you know, I don't want to. This will be up ultimately to, to the professionals that, you know, that I'll be helping. But, you know, would you start a. The, the larger one on the same site? My guess is most likely. But the faster you have the breakthroughs, the faster you can get this built. So the, the first larger one at scale. And once you prove that out, work the kinks out, it becomes like anything, just like when the first fusion or fission reactors, once they figured out the first couple of them, Victor, then we swelled up to I think, some 200 different reactors across 100 sites in the U.S. you would quickly see, you know, our technology, you know, because it's. It's a hell of a lot more. It's a. Believe it or not, it. It's a hell of a lot simpler to build one of these than it is a big fission reactor. Just because you don't need the size, the scale, the cooling, all the radioactivity issues that you deal with. So, you know, we're looking. You know, we're looking. I tell people, people say, oh, it's a long time. And I remind people that, well, remember it took us four years to get true social global where it is today with streaming technology. That was four years. And that we didn't have to really invent anything new. We just had to build our own proprietary technology. But second, it's also a lot like farming and agriculture that you, that you and I are so familiar with. That, you know, when I, as you know, I have my wines that I, that I make and I deal with these Portuguese varietals that, you know, that we've planted over in Paso Robles. Well, it takes me a year to get a field ready. Then you plant the grapes. Then it takes two to three years to get your first crop, then you got to go in and then you have to harvest it, then you have to make wine out of it, then you have to let it sit, then you have to store it. So for me, it takes about. In the wine world, it's going to take. When I, when I go in to plant a new vineyard, it's going to be seven years before I actually get that wine to market from that, from that new vineyard. So, you know, it'll, it'll move fast. And it's important that, that, that we move as fast as possible because we're falling behind.
- [50:47]
Victor Davis Hanson
Yeah. And I would add to that I planted a lot of vineyards in my life, and it's not just all of what you entailed, which is pretty risky, but you have to have the right variety. I planted something called Ruby Red seedless, and that was a disaster. I wrote about in Fields Route Dream. Last questions. It's kind of curious, though, that this new partner isn't the headquarters in Irvine, California. Yeah, that's, that's, Is that, is that going to remain. How did they. How was it just an artifact that that was that. Was that where the entrepreneurs were or the science was? But given that we're losing two refineries now and a lot of other energy concerns, find California, especially with the gas going up to $7 or $8 a gallon, they feel by mid-2026, we have a quarter of California residents can't pay. That's overdue. We have the highest kilowatt charges in the United States. Will that remain? Is that climate? What. How do you deal with that?
- [51:50]
Devin Nunes
Well, it's funny that you, yeah, it's funny that you mentioned that. It's kind of sad, right? This is technology that was developed in California. A lot of it came out of the researchers that started this, Dr. Benderbauer and others, you know, some 30 years ago in Orange County. Orange county was a great place, favorable climate for business, and UC Irvine was heavily involved in this project. A lot of the scientists were trained there, and, and that's why it was put there. But sadly, Victor, I mean, the most obvious place to put something like this would be right in the center of the state where you, you know, somewhere like Diablo, you know, nearby Diablo nuclear power plant, somewhere there where you have all the transmission lines, you have the safety and security. But as you know, you know, California is just not an option, unfortunately. Gets back to what we were talking about in the earlier segment, and that is that, you know, California is a place for death and destruction and not, not A place for, for a technology company like ours to thrive in. So, you know, what we're going to do is we'll take this technology and the next machine that will be the commercial machine, well, or reactor will not be built in California. I can, I can promise you that It'll be built somewhere where the government actually wants you, where you can get permitted in a timely manner and you, and you have, you know, logistical support of people that want you there. Not like what California does, you know, to its, to its business and citizens today. And it's unfortunate for you, and I know it is. You know, look, I, I would, I can tell you this if it wasn't for the, the climate to plant my grapes in. I, as you know, I can't. I would gladly plant my, my new grapes in Florida if I could. The problem is they won't grow. Now the difference is a fusion reactor will grow in Florida. That'll grow in Texas where, where my grapes will not. But it's, it's a, it's a sad story that, that, that will. And look, this won't be that. This is not the first technology company to leave. It's not going to be the last. It's going to continue until California decides to, to, to stop punishing its citizens with this neo Marxism.
- [54:16]
Victor Davis Hanson
Yeah, it's, it's tragic. I, I've been talking about a lot of this and I grew up with Pat Brown Sr. Was a very good governor in many ways. As you know, he was the attorney general that sued the Sierra Club to empower the building of the California Aqueduct. But we had Reagan, we had Dick Mason, we had Pete Wilson. The first term of Schwarzenegger wasn't too bad. And then we lost control and the rest is history. But hopefully, you know, some of us are staying. We're getting older, but there's still hope. Where there's life, there's hope for California. Although it's pretty dark right now. In any case. Thank you, Devin. We've had a complete potpourria, a review of contemporary politics, the midterms, social media in general and truth social in particular, and this exciting new partnership between Trump social media and the nuclear fusion industry. And this is Victor Davis Hansen in his own words. I'm solo today and my special guest has been former Representative Devin Nunes. And I didn't mention he had. Was one of the few Californians that's ever won the Presidential Medal of Honor. So congratulations on that too. And we'll. I will be off Medal of Freedom just to be, Just to be Medal Freedom.
- [55:41]
Devin Nunes
Sorry, I wasn't. I wasn't killed. Not yet, at least.
- [55:46]
Victor Davis Hanson
I don't know why I said that. Well, I do know I've got a lot of things on my mind. But anyway, thank you everybody for listening and viewing and we'll see you soon. Thank you for tuning in to the Daily Signal. Please like share and subscribe to be notified for more content like this. You can also check out my own website@victorhansen.com and subscribe for exclusive features in addition.