B (1:41)

Everything at once.

A (1:42)

Everything at once.

B (1:43)

That's right.

A (1:44)

Netflix had the right idea. We should just throw out 10 episodes and let people binge it. I wish Advent calendar people and Netflix people would talk, and then they could be like, what if we just gave them.

B (1:55)

It's called Costco. It's just, like, bulk.

A (1:58)

Wait, is that their kid? Yeah.

B (2:01)

The other day, I bought probably the last bag of chocolate chips I'll ever buy in my lifetime.

A (2:06)

Really?

B (2:06)

It was like we were gonna use them to make, like, treats for Christmas time.

A (2:11)

Yeah.

B (2:12)

And the smallest bag I could find is the biggest bag I've ever seen.

A (2:16)

You go, I had to have a mule. I had to have a mule.

B (2:19)

I had one of those, like, Home Depot carts, and I just pulled it up. I don't know if you had a burro.

A (2:24)

A burrow. Mule climbing.

B (2:29)

I had to rent the mule.

A (2:31)

Hey, man.

B (2:33)

So incredible.

A (2:35)

Isn't that fun?

B (2:35)

Can I tell you another funny story?

A (2:37)

Say it.

B (2:37)

I was in the parking lot because they don't do bags there. So I bagged all my own groceries, and I'm putting everything in my car. A gentleman approaches me and goes, hey, can I get your signature for this thing we're trying to do? And I go, what is it? And he tells me, and I go, all right, I'll sign that. And then I thought it was just a signature, but when I looked at the form, it had all this personal info you had to put on your address, your phone number. And I just know they're gonna send me mailers. They're gonna text me for support. I made up all the information. Buzz Lightyear. I signed it As I live on Jupiter. Yeah. I wrote the wrong address, so that's good. I hope he doesn't watch.

A (3:12)

How do you feel about lying on that one?

B (3:14)

I feel good because I feel like the premise was dishonest because he said, I need a signature for this political thing. And then it was like, but you also want my address. You want my phone number. This isn't going to work.

A (3:24)

So in actuality, it wasn't a sin. That was. That was.

B (3:27)

No, no, no, no, no. I was. Yeah, exactly. I was preventing harm.

A (3:30)

Okay, so. And this is behind the scenes of our Best Days podcast, where you talk about the behind the scenes of here at Victory Church and what church life, like, is. We are currently getting ready for the Christmas production. Yeah. And we're really excited for it going back. Sorry, I just wanted to catch you guys up. If this is your first episode, like, what is this even about?

B (3:47)

Yeah.

A (3:48)

But is there a time in which you can sin? And it's not bad.

B (3:54)

Like, you lied. I mean, I won't say I haven't done it right. I do think it's bad, but there are a lot of places, like, gray areas, where it's, like, it's really tough.

A (4:04)

If someone says, how is my hair cut? And they look chopped.

B (4:07)

When someone asks an inappropriate question that I should, there's no good answer. I really find it tough to not just be like, yeah, yeah.

A (4:18)

I go.

B (4:18)

I don't want to dive into the.

A (4:20)

I say on you. Your decisions were so bold, and I think that's the best thing about you is that you own your personality. See, I'm a deflector. That's good, though, because it sounds like a ninja move.

B (4:34)

The alternative is that you dive into a deep talk. Explaining to that person why they should have.

A (4:40)

Your haircut is bad.

B (4:41)

Yeah. Or like. Or whatever it may be. I don't know. Yeah.

A (4:46)

Yes. I think that anytime someone asks you A question. You can focus on the character of that person. And you're like, you, you my guy, you are such a friendly person. And they're like, oh, I was asking you if you think I lost weight.

B (5:07)

I'm like, you, I'm so proud of you.

A (5:10)

I'm proud of what we're doing right now.

B (5:12)

This right here. We showed up.

A (5:14)

Yeah, we showed up. And he goes, what are you even saying right now? I go, let's take hands and pray.

B (5:21)

You do the confession. I love it. Anyways, can I tell you one more? The other day someone asked me, we were in a conversation and I was telling them about another person. I was like, have you met this woman? She's on staff here. She can help with what you're asking about. And they were like, I don't know, what does she look like? What's her physical appearance? And I go, I don't know.

A (5:42)

Yeah, you can't get in there.

B (5:43)

There's no way I'm gonna.

A (5:44)

There's no way.

B (5:45)

Well, here's what she looked. No way.

A (5:47)

Oh yeah, no. So like on the weekends. So this last weekend. So currently, as you guys are aware of America, they have reduced the snap.

B (5:57)

Yeah.

A (5:57)

Completely.

B (5:58)

Yeah.

A (5:58)

Taken away SNAP benefits. So Victory, we're just like, hey, we always are someone who's like, let's run to the problem. Let's have groceries ready at the weekend services. So we had groceries ready. We just believe as the church, it's like, we are not going to run from this. Like, let's do it. I love it. We were able to also do the same thing with the school. Like, hey, if there's any. Because we know that there are certain parents that work two or three jobs in their single parent homes just to put their kids through vcs.

B (6:24)

Yeah, absolutely.

A (6:26)

And so there's individuals that need help and then there's people who are financially and resource blessed and they're like, I want to help give. And it's just a really cool, special thing.

B (6:37)

Absolutely.

A (6:38)

So that was all happening this weekend and also happening throughout the last few days. So there would be people coming in because we, we made an announcement to the city and it was like, hey, this is a place in which we can help you. Well, certain people come in who have never been to Victory before and they're here just to get groceries, which. Great, that's fine. We're not going to hold a gun to you and be like, no, no, no, you gotta be a Christian or.

B (7:01)

You gotta go to church here.

A (7:02)

Like, come all. Yeah, you know, come one Come all.

B (7:05)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (7:06)

So these people are asking. I tell them. I'm like, okay, there's an individual over the distribution of this, and so I need you to go and find her. And then they ask the question, what does she physically look like? And in that. Yeah, you can't be talking, because then it's like, okay, she is a woman.

B (7:26)

You go, that's right.

A (7:27)

And she identifies as a woman in whom God created her as. That's right.

B (7:32)

That's right.

A (7:33)

Walk down this hallway and yell her name.

B (7:35)

Yeah, that's great.

A (7:36)

And ask her to raise her hand.

B (7:38)

Yeah, an email is great.

A (7:42)

Those are just funny conversations that you have in a lobby when you work at a church and you're wanting to help someone, but also you're like, cancel me not. Yeah, cancel me not. I'm not trying to get canceled.

B (7:52)

I will say that I'm very proud of victory and what's been happening in the city. Like, I have a lot of friends who dive into the logistics of the politics and the debate. And something Pastor Paul said in a staff meeting yesterday was like, I'm not gonna pretend to know the intricacies of all the political elements of this. I just know that Jesus said, when I was hungry, you fed me. And he preached this last weekend. So by the time this episode comes out, it's two Sundays ago. And I just sat there in Saturday service, like, genuinely emotional, because I was like, finally some solid ground in the hoopla of society. Like, thank you. It was to be like, yeah, that's right. Like, when I was in prison, you visited me when I was hungry, you fed me.

A (8:36)

When I was naked, you clothed me.

B (8:38)

All of that in Matthew 25.

A (8:39)

Dude. Okay, I will say this. Pastor Paul's sermon, if you go on Victor Tulsa's YouTube, he's doing a sermon series on the end times. Yeah, it was on. Hold on. Let me look at the date, and I'll just let you guys know.

B (8:53)

It would have been November 1st and 2nd.

A (8:56)

Yeah, November 1st and 2nd.

B (8:57)

Jesus and the end times.

A (8:58)

Jesus and the end times. Listen to that sermon. I've had so many people who have two things they've asked. What is victory stance? Like, what's the behind the scenes of where they stand? Watch that and see where we stand.

B (9:11)

Yeah, I love it.

A (9:12)

Secondly, if you are like, I have no idea what the Book of Revelations is, and if you're a pastor or you work at a church and you go, we actually just don't preach on Revelations because it's weird. Listen to that sermon. Because he Breaks it down. And it's not out of fear. It's not. It's just really, really good and solid. I mean, he's my brother. And I was like, that was amazing.

B (9:36)

Yeah. Very nourishing.

A (9:37)

Very nourishing. And then he just goes precept upon precept. Matthew 25. And, you know, we started our. We launched our Victory prison ministry this summer, and it's great. And then Paul is like, once you read at the. At the end of Matthew 25, and you will hear sermons where people are like. They focus on the beginning, where it's like, I was naked and you clothed me. I was hungry and you fed me. I was in jail and you came to visit me. Sometimes they negate the end of Matthew 25, where it says, you didn't feed me.

B (10:12)

Yeah, we were there.

A (10:13)

Yeah, I was there and you didn't visit me.

B (10:16)

Right, right.

A (10:17)

And then he says, this is tough, but this is the Bible. So if you have an issue with it, email the Bible.

B (10:23)

The Bible.

A (10:23)

Yeah. That's what Paul always says. He's like, if you have an issue with this, email. The Bible is. He says, depart from me for I never knew you. Wow.

B (10:30)

Yeah.

A (10:32)

Oh, my gosh.

B (10:32)

Yeah. There's no political opinion solid enough to stand up to that. That's right. No matter what the issue is, it's like, did you feed the hungry? Did you. You know.

A (10:43)

And you know what also convicted me is whenever he was talking about. So we visited this prison and in the prison ministry now, this is where this may kind of ruffle some feathers. And the prison in which we visited, a high percentage of these prisoners there were there for sex crimes.

B (11:01)

Yeah.

A (11:02)

Horrendous sex crimes to where there was people there for 200 years. Wow. Their sentence was 200 years. Obviously, that's. But, like, they're going to die there. And there was individuals who got saved and baptized. And then you ask yourself, you know, I am a dad. I have kids. If anything. If anyone did anything to my kids, I would go to jail for murder.

B (11:27)

Like, I. For sure.

A (11:28)

Like, that's my. That's my first thought. And some of you guys are like, are you just admitting to something?

B (11:33)

No. Every dad would feel that way.

A (11:34)

I just. I. Dude, I would be. That would be something that would be very difficult for me to forgive someone on because I love my kids so deeply. If anyone hurt them or did anything inappropriate to them, that would be so difficult. And now here we are at that prison, and those people, then the question is, do they still deserve to receive Jesus in Their heart and get baptized. That's a tough theology pill to swallow, for sure. And to like.

B (12:09)

Yeah.

A (12:10)

And to talk about. Well, Pastor Paul talked about it, and he said. Because in Matthew 25, you know, his followers, they're like, when were you in jail? When were you naked and we clothed you? When were you in jail and we visited you? When were you hungry and we fed you? Like, they were trying to figure it out. And then Paul was like, paul, my brother, Not Apostle Paul. Pastor Paul circled. He put up this guy who has been in prison.

B (12:40)

Yeah.

A (12:41)

He now has served. I think it was 20 something years.

B (12:43)

Sure, sure.

A (12:44)

20 something years. And he had a Bible that my mom and dad. My mom and dad did prison ministry. Pastor Billy Jones, Sharon. The founders of Victory. And he had a Bible, and it was signed, Pastor Billy Jones, Sharon Doherty. And it said, congratulations on your graduation, because we have Victory Colleges in prison so guys can graduate a Victory College in prison.

B (13:03)

Yeah.

A (13:03)

And it said, congratulations on your graduation of Victory College. And it was like, 2001.

B (13:09)

Yeah.

A (13:10)

And he showed Paul, and he was like, I have graduated from victory college in 2001. And he said, God has done a work. And he goes, I'm going to die in here, but I'm just letting you know, like, thank you, Victory.

B (13:23)

Beautiful.

A (13:23)

Oh, my gosh. I was just boohooing in service. I was getting emotional.

B (13:27)

Right.

A (13:27)

Right. Well, then Paul said. And the guy said. The guy was like, man, I found Jesus in prison.

B (13:35)

Yeah.

A (13:35)

And then Paul pointed to him, and Paul said, I found Jesus in prison.

B (13:40)

Yeah. Beautiful.

A (13:41)

And the guy was like, no, no, no, no. I found Jesus in prison. And Paul was like, no. And Paul circled his face on this screen on stage. And Paul Dougherty said, no, I found Jesus in prison.

B (13:56)

Referring to the man.

A (13:57)

And was referring to the man.

B (13:59)

That's right.

A (14:00)

And that just broke me. Yeah.

B (14:02)

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

A (14:03)

Because it's like, that's Matthew. That's the gospel.

B (14:06)

That is the gospel. Yeah. Yeah. It's a massive relief because you grow up, like I did, perpetually surrounded by the gospel, and you hear it so much, and I'm embarrassed to say, but it was real, that you get kind of like, all right, I get it, I get it, I get it. But then you get into adulthood and you start to see your own choices and the choices of your peers with whom you grew up in Christian environments, and you see them do things, and you're like, oh, my God, we were told not to do that. You did that very thing. Or you yourself do something. You go, oh, my Gosh, I can't believe I made that. Whatever. But then you look at how life happens and you look at how parenting happens and you look at how economics happen and job law, and then like people go there and that's where the gospel, you're like, oh, this is for that.

A (14:55)

Like, gospel is for that.

B (14:57)

Absolutely.

A (14:57)

Gospel is for life. And when you're younger and you grow up, and you grow up always around the Bible, always growing up in church, which I believe parents should raise their kids in church. Parents. You know, getting a Christian education is amazing. We have school. Going to a Bible college is awesome. I think it's necessary to learn the word. I learned the Bible in Bible college. Not in my. And not in my four year school, but in my Bible. College is where I truly learned the Bible.

B (15:22)

Yeah.

A (15:25)

But like you said, I am embarrassed to say.

B (15:27)

Sure.

A (15:28)

You can get like, okay, I got it. I get it. I'm good. Two thumbs up.

B (15:33)

I understand.

A (15:33)

And then when you experience, like you said, you experience life or people that, you know, experience life and it literally kicks your face into the curb.

B (15:42)

Totally.

A (15:44)

You're like, this is what the Bible is for.

B (15:47)

Yeah, exactly.

A (15:48)

It is for teaching, it is for preaching.

B (15:50)

Exactly.

A (15:50)

It is for confronting.

B (15:52)

Yeah.

A (15:53)

But it's also for hope.

B (15:55)

Totally.

A (15:55)

It's also for. Is there any way I can repent? Is there any grace?

B (16:00)

Yeah, absolutely. Oh, man, I love it. This is where all the, like bullcrap arguments about what churches are doing right or wrong and all it's. It all goes away.

A (16:13)

Yeah, all of those, all those petty arguments.

B (16:15)

The Nathan Apfeld's of the world. It's like, whatever, dude. Like, say what you will, whatever documentary about whatever church did, whatever thing and whoever did, whatever. I'll see you in prison. Yeah. You want to show up?

A (16:29)

Let's go.

B (16:29)

Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, this is where those, like.

A (16:32)

Show up to prison ministry. Whenever you go to prison ministry, you realize.

B (16:36)

Yeah.

A (16:37)

You, you look into the eyes of those people and you're just kind of like, this is what the Bible is for. It's for. Yeah. You know, Jesus said, I did not come for the well, but the sick.

B (16:49)

Yeah. Yeah.

A (16:50)

The church is a hospital for the broken.

B (16:52)

Yeah. Yeah.

A (16:53)

You know, it's not a, it's not a country club.

B (16:57)

That's right. Yeah.

A (16:58)

And so anyways, it's always great to kind of get hit in the face with that reality. The gospel and Jesus and life and.

B (17:07)

Yeah.

A (17:08)

Anyways. Oh, man, I just absolutely love it. One thing with. As we're getting ready for this Christmas production. It's going to be the second week in December, you know, and it's coming up. We're also simultaneously getting ready for the events called friendsgiving.

B (17:25)

Yeah.

A (17:26)

Which is. And we've been doing some construction over at the Victory park to where so PSO set up some things and they're having to move some of these electric lines. Oh, wow. And it's on them. Like, they're the ones who are like, hey, we have to move these. So we're going to help you guys financially because we're having to tear some things down that were there. So with that, with those funds from, you know, the public service of Oklahoma, we were able to expand Victory Park. And so it's been under construction. And with that construction, it was like, okay, we should do the opening of Victory park for all these families on friendsgiving.

B (18:06)

Wow.

A (18:07)

So that way people can experience it all together and they can walk around. And so anyways, it's been an exciting moment. Well, simultaneously, you also have us getting ready for January conference. You have January conference production. And then of course, around. Around friendsgiving, we actually do a Thanksgiving harvest feast for those people who can't have a Thanksgiving. And at our Dream center north, our Dream center west. And then we do toy giveaways around holidays and then our Christmas Eve services. So we're heading into this busy season.

B (18:43)

Sure.

A (18:44)

Anyways. And so in the midst of this busy season, I don't know if you guys, if you have worked at a church or an organization to where you go. There are seasons that flare up, like, you know.

B (18:55)

Yeah.

A (18:56)

Just the inflammation of things to do and trying not to drop balls. But also, it's exciting.

B (19:02)

Yeah.

A (19:02)

You know, I guess in the midst of that, like, how do you manage, like on a day to day basis?

B (19:10)

Totally. Yeah.

A (19:12)

I'm asking you.

B (19:12)

Yeah, sure, sure, sure. I mean, we've talked about this extensively over the 10 seasons of this podcast, and we probably talked about this more off camera than on camera, but it's that consistent difference between one's identity and one's performance. And having dealt with that for the last 10, 14 years of my life, I can honestly say it is imperative that you have a sense of who you are apart from anything you do, good or bad. Like, a lot of the focus on in preaching, and rightfully so, has been, you are not what you did. You know, whatever sinful thing you did when we were in the prison ministry context, you are not the thing that you did that got you in prison or that got you in this position in life. But if that's true for the negative and it's true for the sin, it also has to be true for all the positives.

A (20:04)

You are not your righteous.

B (20:06)

Yeah, and that's a big. So the kids who grow up overly familiar with the gospel, people like myself who consistently are like, yeah, I get it. And you're kind of coddled by how wonderful this culture is around you, this Christian culture. The way the enemy comes to people like me is that way where it's like, now you are what you do. You are you. You need people to think highly of you. And it's really strange that I guess it's. It's a good thing long term, the mercy of God that we're not what we do, whether good or bad. Even Paul the apostle would write that, like, I just flush all of that down the toilet. All the wonderful things I've seen God do through my life. Because his mind is perpetually directioned, positioned posture toward the love of God in real time, what he's doing now. So I don't want to go off on all these tangents. To answer your question, how do you go into a really busy season? My hope would be the better answer is that prior to that time period, you have a sense of self apart from, you know, because if not, when you're in that busy season, you're going to revert back to the James clear atomic habits thing. You're going to fall back on your default settings, which is not only do I need to do what's right, I need to be seen doing what's right by the most important people in my community. And that's going to fall apart. It's going to create some real stress. You're going to find the most evil version of you will surface in those moments, and then you're going to have to debrief that and deal with it. And it takes several different approaches to do that correctly. So the better the answer, how do you avoid it? You fall in love with the version of God version of you. God created that he is content with prior to you doing anything for him or on his behalf. You know, before Jesus ministry started, when he is baptized and God says, this is my dearly loved son in whom I'm well pleased, hasn't done anything noteworthy, quote unquote, but he just is a son. So that's, that's honestly the perhaps not the most easy to apply answer, but it's the most true answer.

A (22:18)

Yeah, I understand that. I understand that. I don't know about you guys, but those of you who are listening and watching. I. For me, if I am doing something, I'm like a. I don't know if you guys have ever taken your strengths or whatever.

B (22:34)

Yeah.

A (22:35)

But I am an activator. Me and Pastor Paul, Pastor Ashley, Master Ashley is very good at thinking things out and she's very thorough and wants to make sure everything is before she takes any action. But me and Paul are like, let's do it now. Like, shoot, ready, aim, you know, which is not always good. Sometimes it's good whenever you gotta, you know. But I also am someone that. What I'm doing. I feel such a strong conviction for making it the best.

B (23:08)

Yeah.

A (23:08)

That like what you said, the worst version of John can come across when my motive for making it is not necessarily for John to look good. I just want it to be good. Because in my mind, like, I'm wanting victory to be the best.

B (23:27)

Yeah, absolutely.

A (23:28)

And so this is a small example.

B (23:30)

Sure. But currently everyone has their version of it.

A (23:33)

Yeah, yeah. So, like, currently, you know, I'm coaching first and second grade football. My youngest boy, Monte, my middle boy, third and fourth grade. I kind of help out a little bit when I can. And then my daughter's volleyball team, sixth grade, I kind of organize. I'm like team mom because I have to organize, communicate. And like yesterday it was a little. I was a little frantic and manic because I'm trying to get us signed up for this winter league. And I'm like, all right, everyone, I'm going to call these different leagues and try to get us signed up for this winter league. We're just finishing our fall league. We'll go straight into the winter league in three weeks. And I'm giving all this information on this groupme. You guys sport Parent groupmes. That's a branch of Hell yeah. You know how like people have said who have visited hell, they're like, there's branches of Hell Yeah, yeah. One of those is parent groupmes. Yeah. Especially whenever. Nevermind. I'm not gonna get into it because I'm not gonna love it. But it's like I'm trying to. Wanting to make sure. And I'm on so many groupmes because I also coach for the school and so I'm involved with like varsity junior high, certain parent groupmes about training and certain things. So I'm on maybe eight a lot of messages. Yeah. So I'm getting all this information and I'm also having to put out information.

B (24:53)

Sure.

A (24:53)

So on my own personal kids, I'm like, okay, I'm Going to check on these leagues. And I called around and I got one that would be willing to get all these girls on the same team. And so I just was like, okay, I purchased. I went ahead. I purchased it. This is what you guys ask. This is what you. The branch that we're going to go through, and da, da, da, da. And then the parents are like, oh, this is actually a really difficult time because of December, it being holidays, and aren't you doing a Christmas production? Like, how are you? How's your daughter gonna be at this production and at these games and doing these practices? And I had already put a down payment to rent a gym for practices. I did all of that within 12 minutes. Like, I was like a crazy person, like, blah, blah, blah. And now slowly, like, these people just started dropping out to where I'm like, we're not gonna have a team. And so initially I was, like, upset and angry.

B (25:47)

Sure.

A (25:47)

And those of you who are listening and watching, if you're on that group, me, it's okay.

B (25:50)

I love you.

A (25:52)

And I got these other two people to sign up. And so now today I'm going back to that place and being like, hey, actually, I need a refund.

B (26:00)

Yeah.

A (26:01)

Because I signed up and it hasn't even been 10 hours.

B (26:04)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (26:04)

And I'm asking for refunds for all these things or, you know, and I. And I become, like I said, like, the manic version of myself or for my. For my son's first and second grade football team. You know, thank God they're in the championship. And in fact, all three elementary teams are playing for the championship this upcoming Saturday. And it was great games that happened on the weekend, and it was, like, really great and fun. So I'm like, hey, moms and dads. I know we usually go an hour and a half. Can we go two hours this week? Because it's the championship week, and I'm so focused on winning and making sure that when we play this team that we're going to do our best. That afterwards last night, because we practice Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and this is released on Wednesday, so we've already had two days of practices. And my middle son, Jude, he was like, hey, so. And he was like, me and Monty did, like, a little mood board for our practices of which day and which week. And so Jude's like. And they just. It's like little emojis, happy face, straight smile, frown, and then bawling your eyes out. And Jude was like, this one was a smiley face because we got to hit and Tackle. But this one, we just kind of did a lot of conditioning. And so this was kind of like a frown. And he goes, monty was two faces bawling. And I look at Monty, and Monty sheepishly looks at me and kind of smiles. And then Jude goes, monty says, it's because of the coaching, which is me.

B (27:39)

Dad, head coach, dad, head coach, doing.

A (27:42)

Too much, trying to live his dreams through his kid. You guys know the toxic parenting. That's a mia, Mario. So I'm like, okay, Monty. And he's like, well, Jew wasn't supposed to say anything, but, yeah, I was kind of sad about tonight. And I was like, but didn't we have fun because we're getting better? And he's like, I guess so. And then I had this come to Jesus moment, and I got convicted. And so I texted the other coaches, and I was like, hey, our final practice. Let's still have a practice, but we need to do some fun games. Let's give out some ice cream.

B (28:24)

Nice.

A (28:24)

Because if these kids quit.

B (28:26)

Yeah.

A (28:27)

Like, let's say we play in this championship game, win or lose, it's like, wow, we made it to the championship. What a great season. And it was awesome. These kids started in July. July, August, September, October, November.

B (28:41)

Yeah.

A (28:42)

Such a long season for first and second graders. Truly.

B (28:45)

Yeah.

A (28:45)

So long and long for parents.

B (28:47)

Totally. Yeah.

A (28:48)

It's such a grind if they don't play next year, because it was like, oh, I didn't have fun. That's on me. That is my fault.

B (28:57)

Hmm.

A (28:58)

And anyway, so it made me kind of tweak some things. So this next practice, we're going to have fun. But I think about, in life, how many people have quit church, have quit certain things because of someone in leadership is so focused on this unhealthy version of them, and we make the excuse. Well, it's the holiday season, so it's busy.

B (29:20)

Sure, sure, sure.

A (29:21)

And then it's Christmas Eve, and you're doing sound check, and you're like, where's our bass guitar player? And you're talking bad about him. And then he shows up and he was like, oh, well, I had a flat tire. And then you feel like a horrible person.

B (29:33)

Sure, sure, sure.

A (29:34)

And these are all examples. But I'm like, how many times have people stepped away from something because they're no longer enjoying it and it falls on the leadership.

B (29:47)

Fair enough. Yeah, yeah. It's a big deal. It also applies in life just normally. Like, when you have an ideal and a vision and you're going at it, whether it's a church situation, ministry one or just in your own family, you're going to feel the temptation when things shift around. Or depending on how much you love to plan or whatever, there will be. That's why people like the cliche jokes about Thanksgiving dinners with family or the holidays are hard, because family and this and that. It's just that I was having this conversation with some friends the other day. Like, I see a massive need first in myself and then hopefully for everybody else for this soft heartedness. There's probably a better word for it, like tenderness, gentleness, whatever. Because there's a story in scripture where these people approach Jesus and they're like, hey, so Moses said we can do this divorce thing if we do it this way. And so what do you say about that? And Jesus is like, so he was moving millions of people from one country to another through a desert. And so because of your hard hearts.

A (31:07)

Yeah, Jesus did.

B (31:08)

So he made a concession for you. And so what struck me about it on this last reading with that was what areas of my life? Because you can reduce it down to that topic, but you're really robbing yourself. It's really about life in general. Yeah. What areas of my life will God temporarily tolerate and make a concession? How many things are super important to me that on God's perspective are concessions. He's like, I understand that it's very important to Arvind to have this idol in his life, to be perceived this way, to be whatever. And it's like the unfortunate reality of that is you can enjoy that, you can live that life. People I know can live in the Christian faith for 40, 50 years at a time and their hard heartedness and they're like constantly finding sermons about how to hear the voice of God. And they're like, how is it that I'm not hearing the voice of God?

A (32:02)

Interesting.

B (32:03)

You've got a hard hearted approach to everything. Everything's black and white to you. There's, you know, you haven't received any grace. There's no need for, you need to have mercy every morning, whatever. And those other people over there who disagree with you politically or whatever, they are wrong because of this thing and that whatever. And it could, it works on both sides. There's a real need for a gentleness, a soft heartedness first and foremost, so that you can consistently have a tender relationship with God. But also, even if you're ambitious, there's a scripture in Psalm 18 where David says, lord, your gentleness has made me great. This dude's risen from no connections, nothing whatsoever. To be the king of this whole country. And not only the king, this country's had plenty of kings, but among them all, he's known as the best one because he's after God's heart.

A (32:55)

That's so good.

B (32:56)

So it's that the gentleness of God enables us to be great. In Proverbs it says, your wisdom makes me great. So if gentleness, God's gentleness makes us great and, and God's wisdom makes us great, it is wise to be gentle. It is wise.

A (33:13)

Heart.

B (33:13)

They are, they are both approaching, which also gives us clarity on this other element which is God's desire for us is to be great. I've struggled with that a lot. Where I'm like, I feel like, does.

A (33:25)

God want me to be like, ho, hum, I'm a, I want to live a humble life. I do believe you want to live a humble life, sure. But what I mean is like, I should grovel.

B (33:34)

Right, right, right. False humility, where it's like the biggest things that the enemy says to me is like, it is actually ungodly of you to have ambition, like to want to achieve greatness. God wants your life to be obscure and mediocre. There's no scriptural basis for it whatsoever. But that is the biggest cloud that comes at me, the biggest dark cloud that comes at me on a daily basis is you need to be content with mediocrity. You need to be obscure. Stop trying to be this great person, stop trying to achieve. And then in Scripture you look at, your gentleness has made me great. And also wisdom will make you great. So it's, if the gentleness is a fruit of the Spirit, then its ultimate end is also a desire of God's spirit. Otherwise the Holy Spirit's in conflict with God, which I don't think is true. So the idea here is we need a real. And thankfully, when the world is in chaos and the church is behaving as it should, we see it in the most beautiful way. We talked about Pastor Paul's sermons lately, what Victory's been doing. And I know of a lot of other churches, a lot of other food banks that are doing this thing. When you're, when it comes down to just like giving someone groceries for a week, yes, all those arguments go away and there's a soft heartedness and a tenderness and it's like it behooves me. It's for my benefit to stay in that position. Even if and when the government shutdown ends and snap benefits come back and all this other stuff, because there's always going to be an opportunity with whatever, whoever got elected in whatever city that I'm not living in, to be angry and upset. And here's what the Whatever. If you can stay in a place of gentleness, it's wisdom.

A (35:23)

I think that's a good. That's a good conclusion of, you know, it is wise to be gentle.

B (35:32)

Yeah.

A (35:32)

And that is your answer in the midst of your hectic, busy season.

B (35:37)

Totally. Yeah.

A (35:38)

And also knowing that there is a chance to. Where if you do, like, like me, like, if you do kind of mess up or. I just remember for some reason, there was a certain casserole that was cooked and brought to Thanksgiving growing up that was never eaten. And every year this casserole was brought and cooked. And then afterwards it was like, well, does anyone want any leftovers of this? And it was like, leftovers. Does anyone want the whole thing? Yeah, no one's eating this. But it was like this. It was like stuck in. And this was a family reunion in Arkansas, like, with the rest of my family. And the person was a sweet person, but they were so stuck. It's like, well, we have to do it this way. Like, we do this on Thanksgiving.

B (36:32)

Oh, yeah.

A (36:33)

And it was like, you're putting all this effort into it that something is like, no one's asking for me.

B (36:40)

Yeah. Interesting. Wow.

A (36:43)

So I know that's crazy.

B (36:44)

No, it's true.

A (36:45)

But I think that, like, there are times whenever we strive, and it's like, oh, no, no, no. It has to be done this way. Like, for instance, the volleyball thing that I was. And everyone was like, hey, we can't do it. And I ended up having to get a refund. It was basically like, does anyone want these leftovers in volleyball? You know what I mean?

B (37:01)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (37:03)

To where it's okay. Gentle approach. Gentle approach on myself, on my schedule, and on others, and allowing God to work through that and allowing. And just being like, holy Spirit, I trust you. You know the desires of my heart. You know what I'm wondering, you know, what I'm worrying about in the future. And you're going to take care of it. So my approach is wisdom through gentleness.

B (37:30)

Yeah, that's right.

A (37:31)

Amen. Do you guys receive that?

B (37:32)

Yeah.

A (37:33)

Thank you guys so much for listening and watching. We will see you next time. Bye.

B (37:36)

See you next time. That's.