← Victory Church: Paul Daugherty
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Foreign.
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Hello. Hey.
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Welcome back, everybody.
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My name is John.
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My name's Arvind.
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And today is. It's the principle of the thing.
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That's right.
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It's the principle of.
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Oh, yeah.
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Sometimes you don't even. Okay. So this podcast we talk about behind the scenes.
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Yeah.
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Of our best days. This is Cezanne 10.
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Yeah, that's right.
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Saison 10. So we're going to end with. It's the principle of the thing. We're going to go on a rabbit trail like we always do.
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Love it.
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We love it. Larva. Love it, love it. In order to do it.
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It's the journey, not the destination.
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It's the journey, not the destination. Okay, so one thing that I was. I was talking to Arvind was that. Okay, so currently, right now, my kids have practices on certain nights where they end. I live 30 minutes away from.
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Yeah, you do.
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Yes.
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Yeah, you do.
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And you live 15 minutes.
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Yeah, 15 minutes.
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I give out your address to all these people.
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Let's map this out. It's 15 to 20.
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Okay. So I live about 30ish minutes with no traffic from here. And it's great. And I'm very grateful. And people are like, why did you do that? And I'm like, to genuinely have peace.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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But during nights where my kids get out of practice at 8:30 and then I take them to their mom's house and. And then by the time it's like 9ish.
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Yeah.
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And. And I have to be up here three or four times out of the week at 6:30am to coach a session in the morning. And I try to exercise out before. I try to exercise before then at 5. So I wake up early and I'm not. And I'm not saying this too. There's a point to it.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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But I'm like, okay. There are certain nights where I will spend the night at my mom's house.
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Right.
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My mom, Pastor Sharon, founding pastor, God bless her. I'll spend the night there.
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Yeah. Because how far does she live from Victory?
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I. Oh, very close. Very close. Like within like five minutes.
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Yeah.
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And I'm like, okay, so I'll tell my mom. You know. So last night I am like, you know, dropping off my kids, feeding them dinner, and I'm like, oh, man, I'm so tired. I don't think I want to go all the way back home and then wake up in a few hours and do this all over again. So I'm going to spend the night at my mom's house. I Pull up lines of cars stacked in the streets.
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Yeah. What time is it now? 9:30.
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It's 9:15.
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9:15, yeah. Which is dark outside.
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It's dork outside.
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Yeah. And Tulsa this time.
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Yeah. And I'm like, oh, my goodness, what's going on? Is there a party? And now, here's the thing. My mom is over the prayer ministry at Victory. Pastor Sharon is. And so I walk in, and in my mind, I am walking in with, like, laundry, because I think, oh, I can do laundry. And at my mom's. And then I will. It's a duct tape situation right now in 20, 25 in my life, but it'll work for now. But I'm like, okay. And then that way, in the morning, I will have clothes, since I didn't pack clothes, since I wasn't really planning on it. So when I walk in, they are praying in the spirit. Loud. Praying in tongues.
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That's right.
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And then. And people. When they see me, people stop and they're waving, and I'm like, going, no, no, no, no, no. I'm pointing to them like, hey, get back engaged in the throne room.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't take your eyes off Jesus.
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Don't take your eyes off Jesus. I'm just over here doing laundry. And to not inter. And to not interrupt them. I walk through the garage to put my laundry and start it, and then I walk back out around the house, try to get in the back door in order to, like, not. Well, then they stop. And my mom is like, john. And they stop praying. All these people turn and look at me. She's like, john, what does God put on your heart right now?
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The timing.
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The timing of it. And I just go, oh, yeah, praise God. Well, I. I have to use the bathroom. And I just. And then everyone laughs. And I was like, ha, ha, ha. Classic John. He's not spiritual. I'm just kidding. People don't say that.
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They go, pray for him.
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Pray for him. Pray. Pray for him. Pray for him. And I go. And I was like, but don't let me interrupt, you know, the flow of the spirit of God. You guys keep on praying. And I am. And I just go and use the bathroom. And I'm like, oh, man. At a certain point, I have to walk out of the bathroom, and I know my mom's going to ask me to sing or pray or do something. So anyways. But I. But I felt like I was a little kid again.
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Of course.
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Okay. So when I was a kid, my mom and dad, they would have. They Are called keenagers. As in. Keen. As in wisdom. But. But teenagers were our senior citizens. Yeah. So they would do a senior citizens Christmas party at our house and there would be over 100 teenagers there.
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Amazing.
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And this is all like, very church stuff. If you grew up in ministry and your parents were pastors, they had people over to pray. They had people over to like a midweek small group or whatever. My parents did that four or five times a year. And in those moments, my mom would get on the piano and she would be like, john and Paul, come and sing for them.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And then we would stand and sing for these people.
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Absolutely.
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Me and Pastor Paul. Pastor Paul is my brother. Him and Pastor Ashley are over Victory. And we would sing Noel. Noel. Santa's name has Noel or whatever. Just kidding. That's dumb. Dumb joke. Dumb joke. No, good one. We would sing Christmas songs or if there was a. Or if there was a prayer, like, my mom would have these prayer meetings, meetings for as long as I could remember. She would then ask us, like, what is the spirit of the Lord telling you right now? And they would put us on the spot.
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Yeah.
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And I was like. And the whole time I was like, mom, I wish you would give me a heads up as opposed to like calling us out. And this was like 5 years old, 6 years old. 17, 18. When I would be at ORU at Oral Roberts University. And I was like, oh, I'm going to go to my mom's and dad's house because I know I can make a sandwich there.
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Yeah, for sure.
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I would walk in and they would be in the middle of a prayer meeting and there would be four people there. And my mom would be like, john, I want you to come over here and do this reading from Isaiah, and I want you to prophesy. And in my mind, I'm holding a salami sandwich, prophesying in my mom's meeting room.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
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And I am like, in retrospect, I'm thinking, is this from the God or is this the pastrami?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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You know, is this the.
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Find out.
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Yeah, we'll find out. So anyways. But yeah, I just kind of grew up. And so anyway, afterwards, my mom brought up a story. She goes, john, do you remember the first time? I was like, mom, the principle of the thing would just be to like, let me know, just to communicate. Be like, hey, John, I'm having people over. But then she's like, well, it's my house. I'm going to do whatever I want you're the one who's staying. And I was like, you're right.
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Yeah, Fair.
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My bad. She said, john, it's the principal of the thing to let me know that you're going to stay at my house. And she's like, you're 41. And I was like, dang.
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Yeah. Incredible.
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My mama got me. It was a little bit of a roast, a little bit of a burn. Yeah. I go, man, Mom, I'm just putting more pastrami.
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Oh, that's awesome.
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Anyways. But she said, john, do you remember whenever you interrupted the first prayer meeting? And I was like, no. She was like. And it was at our house that burned down.
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Oh, wow.
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And we had a house that burned down. In fact, that is what it's called. We go, it's the house that burned down.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And all of us were miraculously saved. It's a miracle. Pastor Paul's preached about it.
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Yeah.
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And she said, we were there, and all of these women were praying, and there was two couches facing each other. And she said, your and Paul. Paul's room was in the back. She said. She said there was a big sliding glass door to the backyard. And you guys walked through, and you said hi to all the women in the prayer ministry. And she said, you guys walked right through into the backyard. And she said, 20 minutes go by. And she said, we hear this slap. And we look over, and she said, you're in your underwear.
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Awesome.
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And you're slapped against the sliding glass door, like. But to the prayer meeting.
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Incredible.
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And all the women and people are, like, praying Shambhakamba. And all. All of a sudden, they're interrupted with, like, this boy. Now, I was in whitey tight. She said, you were in whitey tighties. And Paul is there with, like, stick. And he's acting like he's whipping you.
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Incredible.
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And you guys are acting like Jesus. Jesus and the Roman soldiers.
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The role you were born to play, dude.
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And then my mom slides open the glass door, which hurt. Cause, you know, I was on the other side. I'm like, ow. Ouchies, ouchies. My skin is what? And I was a pudgy boy. I was a big boy. So I was a healthy Jesus. Let's just say that I had a little bit of a hangover over the belt. So anyways. And she goes, john, what are you doing? And I go, mommy, I need some of Dad's underwear so I can be a real Jesus. This Mickey Mouse underwear is not cutting it. And she goes, okay, John, can you put on your show clothes. Because all those women. And I turn around, and she was like, please put on your clothes. Come back inside. Go play in your room.
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Incredible.
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And then, almost like a walk of shame, I had to put on my clothes, and I didn't even put them on. I just draped them over my shoulder, you know, And I walked through the women, and all the women are, like, looking at me. None of them are laughing.
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No, sure.
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And I just am like, gertrude, I forgive you. Bethel, I forgive you. Barbara, I know your sins.
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Yeah.
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Eunice acting like Eunice. All the old lady Mildred, you know, Anyways. Yeah, but she brought that up, and I was like, oh, my goodness, that is so embarrassing. I remember she brought it up.
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Oh, wow.
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Like six or seven.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.
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But anyway, it's incredible. Yeah. But, like, growing up in ministry, you just have those moments.
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100%.
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Your parents were pastors.
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Yeah.
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Did they ever have, like, ministry moments?
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All the time. Because we were such a small church, that stuff would happen just at the house. We just have, like, counseling moments in the house. And my sister and I would just sit in our room.
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With your mom and dad and other people.
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Yeah. Like other married couples. And only as I've gotten older, have my parents been like, oh, yeah. Do you want to know what that was about? Like, I'll go out with my dad for breakfast, and he'll be like, oh, yeah, remember that? And I go, yeah, what was that about? And he goes, I can tell you now, you know, because you're a grown man. I'm in my late 20s, early 30s, whatever. So as I got older, like, one time we had a breakfast that turned into a lunch because there was a whole. I remember being in, like, fourth, fifth grade. It was actually the event that led to us coming to Victory, really. And there was this huge drama church thing.
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And Drama as in production or just.
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No, it was like, oh, drama. Drama.
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Yeah.
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Like Real House.
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Like Bravo.
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Yeah, yeah. Like Bravo drama. Yeah. And it was just like, all this stuff happened that my. Basically, it was that the. One of the pastors of this small church had aged considerably. It's a beautiful story now, because it actually worked out so well. I'm really proud of my parents for how they handled it. And he was like, I'm going to retire, and then my dad was going to step in and be the pastor.
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Your dad was going to step in and be the pastor? Was it. Was it a Iranian church?
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Yeah. Yeah. We're just a group of Iranian immigrants who are legally in the United States. And then Anyways, at the retirement party and the installation service for my dad to be the. He was the associate up until that point for him to be made the pastor, the old guy was like, just heard from God. I'm still gonna pass. I'm not. I'm sticking around. He, like.
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Like at the actual. Like.
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Yeah, it was like. Yeah, it was like the handover celebration.
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Where he was supposed to give it to your dad. He was like, your dad showed up to the service thinking he was gonna be.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it turned into this whole debacle. It's so unfortunate because it led to so many weird circumstances for the people that orchestrated that whole thing. My dad was like, all good. No worries. I'm fine with that. Anyways, it was like something had happened there where your dad ended up finding out about my dad and then asked him to meet with him.
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Pastor Billy Joe.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so my dad and Pastor Billy Joe are sitting there, and Pastor Billy Joe gave my dad like, 15, 20 books of his, or however many books he had. All of his many books. He goes, I want you to read these and just let me know if we are aligned theologically and how we. How we see ministry. So my dad, you know, with his broken English at the time, reads these books with the board of the group that he knew, and they were like, yeah, we'd love to come to Victory. So that's how we got here. But.
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And that was how Victory Iranian Church started.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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And so I never knew that that's.
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How I grew up here. Yeah.
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It took 10 seasons.
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Yeah, I know. Well, yeah. I mean, I don't run around telling everybody that, but that's what happened. Yeah.
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That is so fascinating.
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But, yeah, it was. They would. That's how it came to be. And they would have these little prayer meetings in the house. I just would get bored. I was always very honest about how bored I'd be in those little prayer meetings at the time, because I also. Realistically, I should have just been put in a room and given a TV remote. Like, that's what I should have done. Yeah. Sometimes didn't happen. It was at our house. I'd be in my room. I'd be watching tv. Yeah. Yeah.
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But didn't.
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Didn't happen otherwise.
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Other places growing. I don't know about you guys listening or watching, but if you guys grew up in. And where, like, your parents were in ministry or they were missionaries, like, all of those things. What's funny to me is how some people grow up and they resent it. And I'm like, that's what made you.
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Yeah, right.
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That's what made you.
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That's exactly right.
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And I don't resent it.
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No, sure.
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Even though there was times where I was like, why are we going to another church service?
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Yeah.
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Looking back, I'm like, I'm so glad my parents made me do the same. You know, be in long camp meetings or certain stuff and.
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No, of course it was.
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Yeah, that is. And I love that, like, all people who grew up in that, we all experienced it together. Like, it was almost like a fever dream. Like, do you remember when that was kind of wild?
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Absolutely. I do think it's expensive, though, in that you're either made into a person who can be grateful for it or, like, I think when we look back, we. You like what you said, it made you. But I don't think that's the case for everybody. There's so many people who, like, they're like, oh, yeah, that's where I chose to, like, dip and bail out of it.
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Oh, yeah. People get back and they get. People get lazy.
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Yeah.
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And they go. That was when I decided to leave the church. That's when I decided to leave God.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And I'm not talking. Sorry, that sounds like I'm mocking people.
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No, sure.
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When I think of people who particularly grew up and your parents were involved in ministry or they were involved in missions, and they were not the same person on the stage that they were at home. Yeah. Or whatever they were doing on the missions field. They were probably different in front of you, or maybe they were underneath a lot of stress and they would snap on you, and you were like, well, this person is the closest person to God in my mind. I understand that. But being at 40, you should grow up. And at some point, you have to grow up and be like, oh, my parent was super flawed.
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Sure.
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Because they're human.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And it's not God, it's a human. That was flawed.
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Absolutely.
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Anyways. But me looking back on it, I'm like, man, it really made me think differently. And so now whenever we're like, you know, doing a script or we're getting ready to, you know, do a sermon, or we're getting ready to, you know, do some type of a creative piece. All of that, it is with me. It's with me. Whenever we're looking into writing a script or writing a song, all of that comes with me 100%. And so some people are like, man, how did you guys write a script? How did you guys write a song? It's like, oh, it's 41 years.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Of all of these amazing, difficult experiences. Weird fever dream experiences. Funny silly experiences. Experiences where I was a bad person and I reaped consequences. All of those things come with me. So whenever we sit down to write.
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It'S hard to learn what not to include.
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Yes.
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It's not hard to figure out what to put in there.
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Exactly.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And when I read the Bible, I read the Bible with all of that with me.
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Uh huh. Absolutely.
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I don't read the Bible like I'm a saint.
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No, sure, yeah.
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I read the Bible with all of those things on my, in my soul and my mind. And you know, that's why I feel like I'll never get bored of the Bible.
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Right.
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I'll never get bored of. At least for me. And I understand attending a church service and you know, it being a routine for people. I don't think routine is bad.
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Taking vitamins, showering is a routine.
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Showering is a routine.
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I hope you don't quit on the shower.
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You know, and not every, and not every church service is. Am I like, woo, yeah, let's go.
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To the throne room of God.
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I don't always feel that way, but I'm always grateful for that, that routine of things. But to me, even at 41, like church to me, at least for me, I can only speak for me. Church for me is not even boring because as I'm listening and as I'm experiencing people and I, you know, usually around worship, if I'm here at Central, around worship time, I like to walk around the sanctuary and just see people who are coming in late and just shake their hand and be like, he, hey, I'm glad you're here.
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Yeah, beautiful.
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Because I'm like, this is. Something bigger is going on than just singing a song.
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Absolutely.
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Something bigger is going on than just listening to a sermon. There's people in here who bring their whole self.
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Yeah.
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Like there's other people who are, who are doing what I'm doing. They're bringing all of that with them. And they're sitting in a chair.
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That's right.
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And they're like, yeah. And they're experiencing God.
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That's right. Yeah.
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And so to me I'm like, dude, that's a beautiful thing.
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Yeah, absolutely. It's why I can, no matter how, no matter what, I come to arrive at being like nourishing spiritually for me. I have come to also be incapable of making fun of people who are Sincerely going after God.
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Yes.
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No matter what the song is, no matter what the outfit they're wearing, there is a line in my mind where the trendy things are like, that's good. That's. You know, it attracts a certain group, and that's fantastic. But when I see this. Other people. I haven't been back in a while, but when my parents are doing the Iranian group and the songs they're singing and the people there, I go, but they're calling on God earnestly and sincerely. And that is not an automatic thing. That's not an easy thing. Right. So the extent to which I have reverence for that, that's how much I also feel comfortable making fun of the insincere things.
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Oh, the.
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You know. Yeah. Which is a whole other. We've talked about so many times. But all that to say. And anytime you look around and you go, wow, like, they just, you know, lost their parent or that person just lost a job. Yeah.
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This person over here just, you know, their. Their small business just landed a massive client that they're gonna. They're gonna. Basically.
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Yeah.
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They're gonna get several million this year.
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She's gonna change their life. And they're terrified and they. Yeah.
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And they're scared. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this person, like you said, lost a kid. This person just found out they're pregnant. They're sitting right next to each other.
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Yeah.
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All of those people are sitting there. They're worshiping God. They're hearing this sermon. And you're just like, this is great. This is amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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It makes me happening. I'm good.
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Yeah. It makes me emotional thinking about it because I'm like, dude, that's so beautiful.
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As you age. I was talking to the buddy yesterday where, like, it's not automatic as you go through stuff in life. I know friends who've gone through 20, 25 is a terrible year for them. And the earnestness with which they. But they're also aware now, like, as you age, as life happens, you are tempted to tap out. And even if you continue the routine, there is a sense of resignation. And you just. You're like, I'm not. I'll do the church stuff. I'll take my kids to school. I do not want to any longer hope for reconciliation or hope for what? God, you know, and to have the tenacity, the audacity to continue to try that in a brutal, brutal world. I commend people for that. And that's why I can never. I can't ever, like, really stamp My name under the. All the deconstructionist approaches to things. Because every single person who has that perspective, or maybe they had a. An awful parent who was also in ministry. I also am like, I'm so sorry that that happened to you. But that old hymn is still true where it's all other ground is sinking sand.
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All other ground is sinking sand.
- [21:14]
A
Like, I don't know how to say Christ, the solid rock I stand. Like, I know it's an old hymn. I don't even listen to old hymns, but that phrasing encapsulates it. Like, what is the alternative? You know, you're gonna. You're not gonna. You go, well, the church people are fake. I go, yeah, we're all fake.
- [21:29]
B
Yeah. Every one of us. Welcome to the club.
- [21:32]
A
Yeah. Now, there's differences. Like, I don't celebrate that. I don't want to be that way. Others are like, I'm fine with it. I don't care. That's fine. But I'm saying, outside of it, what is the alternative?
- [21:40]
B
Like, to not worship him?
- [21:42]
A
Yeah, yeah. To not worship him. Like, is that gonna get any better? You know, I have friend groups where I. I know that's not the case there. This is not a faith group. This is not a small group. This is not a church group. This is, like, people who are happy with their godlessness, and yet I look at their life and we're interacting. We're having dinner or we're talking, and I'm like, man, this. This is not going well, is it?
- [22:07]
B
Yeah.
- [22:07]
A
You know what I mean? Yeah.
- [22:08]
B
And I just sit there whenever. Whenever you. Whenever they remove God from their life.
- [22:12]
A
Yeah. Like, for one reason or another, they've departed. And I'm going, is. Has anyone here found a, like, suitable alternative? Yeah. Yeah. Like, I understand there's a litany of issues, especially nowadays with the transparency and the Julie Roy's websites. Like, you look around and it's like, all this terrible stuff happening. I go, yeah, and that's life. And I understand, and I hate it. But is there an alternative? You know what I mean? Like, are you gonna just bail on life as it is? And I haven't found one, and I don't know anyone who has. And so that's where I'm like, that's why I have real reverence for people who have the bravery to continue to try and show up to service and pay attention and want to hear from God. And it's like, yeah, our little foray into celebrity Christianity will not survive, I think, but the brave People who are willing to continue to show up, I think they will. And that's why I'm, like, encouraged. I have a lot of hope for the future of the church and people of God.
- [23:14]
B
Well, and it basically is like, thy kingdom come. So this last. So Pastor Paul, we just ended this series, and I want to encourage you guys to go listen to it. But it was all about the end times, which sounds scary, but his last sermon, it was actually really good, and there's hope in it. It's not scary. It's not doom and gloom. There's parts of it where it is intense and there is a conviction, and he is returning. But then his last sermon of the end times was all about heaven.
- [23:45]
A
Yeah. Beautiful.
- [23:46]
B
And in heaven, he was just like. And he's been doing scripture, precept upon precept whenever he preaches, but in this one, he's like, all right, everyone, close your eyes. We're going to visit heaven. And he did a little storytelling where he was, like, walked up, and I met this person, and this person was saying, you know what it's like there? And the streets are paved with gold, blah, blah, blah. And you realize that it was Moses, and you're like, wow, blah, blah, blah. And you go and you meet another person, and they talked about how their insecurity on earth and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But then they stepped up because they knew what they needed to obey God. And that ended up being Esther. And then he says, there was this one guy who kept on opening up the doors for us, and it was like, yeah, praise God. I love opening up doors. I love being a doorkeeper. And I realized that was King David.
- [24:41]
A
Yeah.
- [24:41]
B
He goes, you're King David. And he goes, no, no, no, no. There's only one king up here. I'm just David.
- [24:45]
A
That's cool. Yeah, I'm just David.
- [24:47]
B
I'm just David up here.
- [24:48]
A
Beautiful.
- [24:48]
B
Oh, my gosh. So powerful. And then David, you know, goes on and talks about how wonderful God is and singing his praises and. And I. And talking about the power of servanthood and in heaven that the. That the last shall be first and the first shall be last. You know, and then Pastor Paul talked about the people. He's like, hey, if you serve here at Victory, stand up. And all these people stood up. And then he said, you don't have a microphone. You maybe don't have a large following.
- [25:23]
A
Right.
- [25:23]
B
You know, you may think that your impact is small, but you will be on the forefront of heaven.
- [25:27]
A
Totally.
- [25:28]
B
You'll be on the front row of heaven. And Paul even said. And he was, you know, not trying to be self deprecating, but he was like, people like me, people with a microphone. We may be in the back.
- [25:39]
A
Sure.
- [25:39]
B
Because, you know, the servants are first. And so anyways, it was just a very beautiful thing. And it's like, I see that now in 2025, is that the people like you said, who are just brave just to show up and be like, yes, I am at church. And yes, there's probably people who work at this church that are not perfect, but I'm here for God, Right. I'm here to worship. Exactly, exactly. Something beautiful begins to happen.
- [26:06]
A
No, absolutely. I do think this is one of the best series. Something about this last weekend in particular, something about the. When we are mindful of heaven. Mindful of heaven and the end times. It does. It shouldn't create a person who's just like super, like eschatology, like the study of end times, whatever, it actually equips you for life now. Like, that is the purpose that it serves. And so I found it was. I think it was one of the best ones because there was so much scripture, but it was communicated in a way that was like, this is why the way you operate from day to day matters.
- [26:42]
B
This is how you can have consciousness driven by eternity.
- [26:45]
A
Yeah, essentially that.
- [26:47]
B
Yeah. Like everything in your life, you're driven by like, eternities on your mind.
- [26:51]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. And so you're not like, you're not limited to like, well, what can I do to get enough attention here and feel validated here? And it's like, sure. I mean, that's a path you can choose and it'll be exhausting. Or you could have heaven on your mind and it will be a different type of incentive and motivation.
- [27:10]
B
You know, that's very awesome. This morning I was listening. Oh, what's the guy. And this guy doesn't listen to our podcast. He may, but what's the guy? His name is Chris. He's the famous podcast. Chris Will.
- [27:23]
A
Chris Williamson.
- [27:24]
B
Yes.
- [27:24]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [27:25]
B
And he was talking about. There was. He was talking about a book. I don't listen to him all the time, but he was talking about a book. Is that when a man cannot find his divine purpose and drive, he will always distract himself with pleasure.
- [27:43]
A
Yeah.
- [27:44]
B
And if a man gets to a place where he cannot find some divine. Like if a man. If a man cannot find this overwhelming pleasure, he will distract himself with his drive, with his purpose.
- [28:05]
A
Sure.
- [28:06]
B
Basically saying that, like, he becomes so. And he was Saying man, but man and woman, mankind. But just being so encapsulated with your divine purpose of whatever you're doing right now with eternity on your mind, that to me, that's being just all in.
- [28:30]
A
That's right.
- [28:31]
B
And being like, wow, I get to do this. This is so special.
- [28:35]
A
Absolutely.
- [28:36]
B
Yeah. But all of that, it goes, you know, And I was thinking about, there is a season in life, and this is silly. There is a season in life where someone who I really, really looked up to, who had a. Who owned a business, who was at the church at the time, and I just thought was like, had a lot of things together and probably still does. This individual. I don't see this individual anymore. This was years ago, but I remember being in a room where he was confronting someone saying, like, why did you unfollow me on Instagram? Did not expect that.
- [29:19]
A
I know.
- [29:19]
B
Isn't that a left turn? But I was like, huh? Because I noticed that, like, this individual, because he was building his business, and then he became kind of like a. I don't. I don't know if you would call it an influencer, but he became like, oh, I want to create content to get people to buy into the business that he's doing. So everything became content, creating, focused. And I don't think that's bad. I think it's great. People make great livings off of that. Well, then I was in a setting where he was upset at someone and confronting him out loud, why did you unfollow me? And this person is like, you know, 12 years older than me. And I was like, what? I was so confused. I was like, why is this grown man getting upset that someone unfollowed him?
- [30:04]
A
Oh, that's rough, dude.
- [30:05]
B
And as I was watching it play out, I was like, okay, maybe this guy, like, what he is doing is great, but their motive, something was off.
- [30:16]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. It's tricky.
- [30:18]
B
Anyways, I just thought it was. I just thought that was. That was funny. But going back to all of those things, you know, it's all of those things. It's going back. And I know that this is a long rabbit trail back to. But it's the principle of the thing. It's the principle of, you know, being consistent. It's the principle of the thing of, you know, basically deciding I am going to be a part of a church, part of a body of believers. It doesn't mean it's perfect. It doesn't mean that I love every weekend, you know?
- [30:54]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [30:55]
B
And then on The. On the flip side, it's the principle of the thing of being. For me, I want to be principle driven. Like, kingdom principle driven. You know, kind of like, whether it is with stewardship, like, okay, what has God given me? I can't manage it. I have to multiply it.
- [31:16]
A
Right.
- [31:16]
B
You know, like, whatever, like, rock. What you got, sister? Type of a thing.
- [31:20]
A
Yeah.
- [31:21]
B
So the kingdom principle of stewardship, the kingdom principle of living with eternity in mind.
- [31:28]
A
Yeah.
- [31:29]
B
You know, finding those principles in your life. I have found that it helps me teach my kids, and it helps things not be so atmospheric for me when someone goes, how's your walk with God? I'm very quickly able to go through the principle checklist in my mind, and I. And I. And I can ask myself, am I adhering to the kingdom principles?
- [31:52]
A
Yeah.
- [31:53]
B
You know, kingdom principles with my money, you know, with my job, with my friendships.
- [31:59]
A
Yeah.
- [32:00]
B
And as I go through those principles, then I'm able to be like, okay, all the way back to when my mom says, all right, John, put you on the spot in the middle of this prayer meeting. What is God speaking to you? I feel like I can then go to that checklist of, okay, what are the principles that I am lacking in?
- [32:20]
A
Yeah.
- [32:20]
B
What are the principles that I'm, you know, standing on?
- [32:23]
A
Right.
- [32:26]
B
And then it's able. I'm able to, like, always look inward before answering outward and go, okay, yeah. You know, for John, I got to get better at stewarding my time. For John, I got a something that I can grow in is management of my money. You know, I be loving Katrina's, which.
- [32:49]
A
Is a Mexican restaurant, delicious Mexican food.
- [32:52]
B
And it definitely is a temptation on my finances to eat there all the time. All the time.
- [32:57]
A
Yeah.
- [32:58]
B
Yes.
- [32:58]
A
Yeah.
- [32:59]
B
You know, or Thai village over there.
- [33:00]
A
Absolutely.
- [33:01]
B
Yeah. Great. Or Medi's.
- [33:02]
A
Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely.
- [33:04]
B
Medi's is a Mediterranean place where it's so good. But anyways. But all. And I know that this sounds like being coy and being, you know, silly about it, but those are. Those are kingdom principles.
- [33:15]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [33:16]
B
You know, about, you know, being a servant, how, you know, people have said, all right, Jesus, what is the kingdom of heaven like? Well, the kingdom of heaven is like this. And it's like, okay, you know, sowing seed. All right. Reaping a harvest. My life, I feel like at this season has become more principle focused, and it helps me stay more on target in my walk with God, parenting, how I handle stressful situations.
- [33:47]
A
Yeah.
- [33:47]
B
Things like that.
- [33:48]
A
Absolutely. Think the thing that's easy to forget when you're doing it so much so consistently, is that all these principles are targeted at your good long term. You know, there are things that. And most people are limited to this in life where it's like, you do them once and you feel an immediate benefit and that's it. And you go, great, I did this. It was good for me. Whatever. And then there are the more important things that I think you have to do them consistently that you won't notice until it's been 6 months, 18 months, 15 years, 25 years.
- [34:19]
B
And in a world that is. You know, Pastor Paul said this before, like, we're a microwave generation serving a prop, a pop, crock, pot, crock, pot guy.
- [34:27]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [34:30]
B
Basically, one cooks fast, one cooks slow.
- [34:32]
A
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like, you just. There is a. There's only so much you can enjoy when you need an immediate feedback of, okay, this worked. This worked. There are certain things that I think this is why God instructs us to read his word or spend time with people or whatever. When you don't do it for a.
- [34:51]
B
Long time, or basically, maybe you were strong with it and then you just, like, veered off a little, and then you get distracted by these other things. You know, that may not even be bad, but it may be, you know, your kids. For me, I can get distracted by my schedule.
- [35:11]
A
Sure.
- [35:11]
B
Which sounds so weird, but I love a good schedule. I love a good structure, and it can literally run my life. And I can sometimes veer away from, like, okay, the spirit of the Lord. You should be. Empower me. It should not be John's willpower. Okay, all right. Okay, John, let's be mindful today of those things and just continuing to have that inner dialogue. Check. You know, or being distracted of, you know, if you are married and you're like, okay, this marriage, it is work, you know, and you're being consistent. And maybe you veered off and it's like, oh, man, this person who never pays attention to me at my job, that is an attractive person, has been very, very complimentary of me. And your mind begins to wander, you know, as everything does, and then you just have to go, okay, well, no, that's not.
- [36:06]
A
Right, right, right, absolutely. And it's helpful, hopefully, to hear that, like, when God granted us those principles, he was aware of those things. It's not like he gave them to you and was like, I just hope you don't get distracted. It's like, no, I know you will be distracted. I know something will attempt to steal your attention or whatever. That's why I gave you some simple like principles that you can incorporate on a daily basis. It'll keep you in alignment.
- [36:33]
B
Yes. Yeah. And in closing I think that that is something that especially as we go into this holiday season, you know, whether it is we're getting ready to go through outreaches from nursing home outreach to toy gift giveaways to friendsgivings to Thanksgiving meals for people to then your personal those of you who are listening, watching your personal interactions with family and maybe there's an estranged or a strained relationship that you're like oh, I'm going to be around these people, you know, which is like okay to think and say it helps you to be like okay what are the principles that I'm going to live by today and just taking it one day at a time.
- [37:16]
A
Absolutely.
- [37:17]
B
So we love you guys. Thank you for listening and watching and we will see you next week.
- [37:26]
A
Sam.