Voices of Search Podcast: Episode Summary

Title: Voices of Search // A Search Engine Optimization (SEO) & Content Marketing Podcast
Host: Jordan Cooney, Pre Visible
Guest: Jason Shafton, Founder and CEO of Winston Francois
Episode: 5 Things Growth Marketers Need to Understand About SEO
Release Date: February 10, 2025

Introduction to Jason Shafton and Winston Francois

In this insightful episode of the Voices of Search podcast, host Jordan Cooney welcomes Jason Shafton, a seasoned growth marketing veteran with over two decades of experience. Jason, the founder and CEO of Winston Francois, brings a wealth of knowledge from his extensive career across various startups and big companies like Headspace and Big Entertainment Network in New York.

Jason Shafton [01:20]:
"As a 20-year growth marketing veteran, I couldn't have avoided SEO. Right. It's a critical part of a growth and marketing strategy."

Winston Francois distinguishes itself from traditional marketing agencies by offering fractional growth and marketing leadership. They partner with high-growth tech startups to provide strategic guidance and build comprehensive marketing teams that encompass SEO, content marketing, performance marketing, and more. Jason highlights successful collaborations with brands like Kajabi and Doorloop, emphasizing their ability to scale traffic and reduce acquisition costs through a blend of organic and paid strategies.

Defining Growth Marketers vs. Paid Marketers

The conversation kicks off with a discussion on the true essence of a growth marketer, distinguishing them from mere paid media buyers. Jordan voices a common skepticism among SEOs and content marketers who often perceive growth marketers as simply individuals who purchase advertisements.

Jordan Cooney [05:09]:
"Growth marketer is a nice facade. For someone who just pays money for advertising, you're just a paid marketer."

Jason Shafton [05:43]:
"From my perspective, a growth marketer is someone who is data-driven in their decision-making and leverages all available channels to launch and scale products, services, campaigns, businesses. They're building growth experimentation programs and prioritizing different experiments that they'd like to run."

Jason elaborates that growth marketers operate at the intersection of product and marketing, utilizing frameworks like RICE (Reach, Impact, Confidence, Effort) to strategize and measure growth across multiple channels, not limited to paid media alone.

The Five Key SEO Insights for Growth Marketers

Jason shares five critical aspects that growth marketers must comprehend to harness SEO effectively:

1. Great SEO Requires a Great User Experience
2. Technical SEO is the Foundation
3. Good SEO Requires Investment
4. Content Quality is Paramount
5. SEO is a Long-Term Growth Channel

1. Great SEO Requires a Great User Experience

Jason Shafton emphasizes that exceptional SEO goes hand-in-hand with delivering an outstanding user experience. The foundation of SEO isn't just about ranking high on search engines but ensuring that visitors find valuable and engaging content that meets their needs.

2. Technical SEO is the Foundation

Technical SEO lays the groundwork for any successful SEO strategy. While it's essential, Jason notes that technical optimizations alone won't guarantee success without complementary strategies like content creation and link building.

3. Good SEO Requires Investment

SEO is not a free resource; it demands substantial investment in time, resources, and effort. Jason draws a comparison between SEO and Search Engine Marketing (SEM), highlighting that while SEM can yield immediate results through paid ads, SEO builds a compounding organic presence over time.

Jason Shafton [09:00]:
"With the right investments in great content and technical SEO infrastructure, organic traffic is compounding, it grows over time."

4. Content Quality is Paramount

Content quality is a recurring theme, especially in the era of frequent Google updates focusing on high-quality, relevant content. Jason debunks the myth that content created solely for SEO can be mediocre, stressing the importance of valuable, well-written, and engaging content.

Jason Shafton [14:37]:
"With SEO, content quality is paramount. We have to be white hat here. We have to do the right thing, which is creating valuable, relevant, and high-quality content that drives engagement."

He highlights the tension often present between growth marketers, SEOs, and content creators, advocating for a harmonious approach that prioritizes long-term value over quick, low-quality content generation.

5. SEO is a Long-Term Growth Channel

SEO does not provide immediate returns but offers substantial long-term benefits when approached with patience and strategic investment. Jason compares SEO to delayed gratification, akin to the famous marshmallow experiment, where waiting and investing yield greater rewards.

Jason Shafton [08:40]:
"SEO isn't immediate. It requires the right investment and patience to get the results that happen over time."

He explains that while paid channels might offer quick traffic boosts, SEO builds an enduring presence that grows and compounds, leading to significant returns over months.

Managing SEO Expectations and KPIs

Jordan probes into managing expectations around SEO timelines and the importance of setting measurable KPIs to track progress during the often lengthy period before SEO investments pay off.

Jordan Cooney [10:42]:
"How do we set that expectation and how do we manage the time that it takes SEO to mature and develop in an organization?"

Jason Shafton [11:15]:
"There are a lot of leading indicators, right? Improving traffic quality, reducing bounce rates, increasing search rankings. These indicators show directional progress toward ROI even before the actual financial returns are realized."

Jason suggests focusing on metrics like traffic improvement, engagement rates, and search rankings as early indicators of SEO success, which collectively signal the pathway to eventual financial gains.

Building Coalition Between Growth Marketers and SEO Teams

Addressing the common friction between SEOs and growth marketers, particularly when business outcomes like lead generation fall short despite traffic increases, Jason underscores the necessity of a unified approach.

Jordan Cooney [17:44]:
"How do you build a coalition with those Experts like the SEOs and content folks to ensure that you're getting the right outcome for the business?"

Jason Shafton [18:58]:
"Great SEO requires and creates a great user experience. Building great content and optimizing website performance ensures that increased traffic converts effectively. If conversions aren't happening, it may indicate issues with traffic quality or site performance."

He emphasizes that seamless collaboration between marketing, SEO, and product teams is crucial. Ensuring that the website's user experience aligns with SEO efforts guarantees that the traffic generated translates into meaningful business outcomes.

Concluding Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Jordan and Jason reinforce the importance of strategic investment in SEO, prioritizing content quality, and fostering collaborative relationships across marketing disciplines to achieve sustainable growth.

Jordan Cooney [20:23]:
"Defining the voice of the company and maintaining organizational identity are key to content quality and effective SEO strategies."

Jason concurs, advocating for authentic, user-focused content creation that aligns with both SEO best practices and the company's brand identity.

Jason Shafton [20:23]:
"It's the best thing you can do as a great SEO strategist to genuinely build great content that creates real user engagement."

The episode concludes with a teaser for part two, where Jason and Jordan will delve into effective methods for measuring SEO success.

Notable Quotes:

• Jason Shafton [05:43]:
  "Growth marketers are people that are actually thinking about all the different levers that they can pull to drive growth and the way that they're going to measure that growth and do attribution."

• Jordan Cooney [07:55]:
  "SEO is something that is taking time, but how does that mean?"

• Jason Shafton [12:54]:
  "SEO is delayed gratification. SEO is waiting for the second marshmallow and not eating it."

Additional Resources:

• Jason Shafton’s LinkedIn: LinkedIn Profile
• Winston Francois Website: WinstonFrançois.com
• Jordan Cooney’s LinkedIn: LinkedIn Profile
• Pre Visible Website: PreVisible.io

Stay tuned for the next episode where Jordan and Jason will explore the best practices for effectively measuring SEO performance. Subscribe to the Voices of Search podcast for daily insights and updates on SEO and content marketing strategies.