Adaptive SEO for a Screenless, Off-Site Search Future

Summary

Voices of Search Podcast: Episode Summary

Title: Adaptive SEO for a Screenless, Off-Site Search Future
Host: Tyson Stockton
Guest: Jason Lax, Technical SEO Expert at SAP
Release Date: June 30, 2025

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1. Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Voices of Search podcast, host Tyson Stockton engages with Jason Lax, a seasoned Technical SEO Expert at SAP, to explore the dynamic and rapidly evolving landscape of Search Engine Optimization (SEO) and content marketing. The conversation delves into the challenges and strategies required to adapt SEO practices in an era dominated by AI-driven search tools and shifting consumer behaviors.

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2. The Evolving Search Landscape

Jason Lax begins by highlighting the significant transformation in the search ecosystem. He compares the current shifts to the advent of mobile search ten years prior, emphasizing the profound impact of Artificial Intelligence (AI) on search dynamics.

"The main one to recognize is that Google won't be the growth engine it was as before. There are competing tools now..." (04:25)

Lax points out that the traditional dominance of Google is being challenged by new AI-powered search tools that offer alternative ways for users to find information and perform tasks.

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3. Consumer Behavior Shifts

The discussion transitions to how consumer behavior is adapting in response to these technological advancements. Lax observes that younger generations are increasingly utilizing voice search and AI assistants, which bypass traditional search queries altogether.

"My kids went straight to voice search. Why bother typing?" (06:01)

This behavioral shift indicates a move towards more efficient and task-oriented interactions with technology, reducing reliance on manual search processes.

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4. Adapting SEO Strategies in Enterprises

Operating within a massive enterprise like SAP, Lax outlines the complexities of implementing SEO strategies on a large scale. He likens the challenge to "shifting or trying to change directions of a freightliner," underscoring the difficulty of enacting strategic changes in a vast organization.

"Sometimes making changes to the strategy can feel like shifting or trying to change directions of a freightliner." (01:13)

To navigate these challenges, Lax emphasizes the importance of data-driven decision-making and leveraging the authority of a large organization to experiment with and implement impactful SEO initiatives.

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5. Data-Driven Insights and AI Integration

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on the integration of AI in SEO strategies. Lax discusses how AI can provide deeper insights into content performance and user perception, surpassing the traditional metrics of keyword rankings and click-through rates.

"You can get a lot of insights about to inform your content strategy by creating lots of prompts. And as long as you're right, you can get very pointed feedback..." (13:14)

By utilizing AI, organizations can gain a nuanced understanding of their audience and tailor their content to meet evolving demands more effectively.

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6. Organizational Challenges and Solutions

Implementing these advanced SEO strategies within a large organization presents unique challenges. Lax highlights the necessity of fostering strong internal relationships and promoting data education to ensure cohesive strategy execution across departments.

"A lot of it boils down to data and education and it's not as daunting as it seems." (19:07)

He advocates for acting as an internal agency, providing support and guidance to different teams, and continuously educating stakeholders to align SEO efforts with the organization's broader objectives.

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7. Future Directions in Search and SEO

Looking ahead, Lax anticipates a future where traditional websites may become obsolete, replaced by more efficient, language-based interfaces that facilitate direct interactions between users and services.

"I personally think where we're going is beyond websites." (29:30)

He references industry leaders like Microsoft's CEO Satya Nadella, who speaks about the "death of software as a service," suggesting a paradigm shift in how users engage with digital content and services.

Jason Lax also underscores the importance of staying ahead by continuously experimenting and asking fundamental questions about user intentions and potential AI capabilities.

"Keep asking why and you realize, can something do that?" (28:34)

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8. Key Takeaways and Conclusions

The episode concludes with Lax reiterating the necessity for SEOs to adapt by:

• Embracing a data-driven approach to inform strategy.
• Fostering strong internal relationships and promoting data literacy within organizations.
• Continuously experimenting with new tools and methodologies to stay ahead of technological advancements.
• Shifting focus from solely optimizing for traditional search engines to a broader spectrum of AI-driven platforms and tools.

"It's about connecting people...to influence our visibility in search and beyond." (14:15)

Tyson Stockton wraps up by encouraging listeners to integrate these insights into their own SEO practices to navigate the complexities of the modern search landscape effectively.

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Notable Quotes

• Jason Lax (06:01): "My kids went straight to voice search. Why bother typing?"
• Jason Lax (04:25): "The main one to recognize is that Google won't be the growth engine it was as before."
• Jason Lax (13:14): "You can get a lot of insights about to inform your content strategy by creating lots of prompts."
• Jason Lax (01:13): "Sometimes making changes to the strategy can feel like shifting or trying to change directions of a freightliner."
• Jason Lax (19:07): "A lot of it boils down to data and education and it's not as daunting as it seems."
• Jason Lax (29:30): "I personally think where we're going is beyond websites."

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Connect with Jason Lax:
Find Jason on LinkedIn or visit SAP's website.

Subscribe for More Insights:
Stay updated with daily SEO and content marketing strategies by subscribing to the Voices of Search podcast on your preferred podcast app or on YouTube.

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This summary captures the essence of the "Adaptive SEO for a Screenless, Off-Site Search Future" episode, providing key insights and strategies discussed by Jason Lax to help organizations navigate the evolving SEO landscape.

Transcript

[Tyson Stockton]

The Voices of Search Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit iheareverything.com welcome to the Voices of Search Podcast. A member of the I Hear Everything Podcast network, ready to expedite your company's organic growth efforts. Sit back, relax, and get ready for your daily dose of search engine optimization wisdom. Here's today's host of the Voices of Search podcast, Tyson Stockton.

[Jason Lax]

As we all know, the world of.

[Unknown Host]

Search is rapidly evolving. The pace of change is increasing every.

[Jason Lax]

Day, and the obvious question or challenge.

[Unknown Host]

Is how do we update our strategies and tactics?

[Jason Lax]

However, to me, the real challenge is.

[Unknown Host]

Not what do we need to do to change in our strategies, but more.

[Jason Lax]

Of how do we mobilize these changes within our organizations to bring them to life?

[Unknown Host]

Life the most prevalent example is at the enterprise level.

[Jason Lax]

The complexity of websites, the volume of.

[Unknown Host]

Stakeholders, and all these elements just amplify.

[Jason Lax]

The challenges that we're faced with. And sometimes making changes to the strategy can feel like shifting or trying to change directions of a freightliner. This is the Voice of Search Podcast. My name is Tyson and joining us.

[Unknown Host]

Today is Jason Lax, technical SEO expert at SAP.

[Jason Lax]

SAP helps businesses transform through innovative technology solutions. Today, Jason will share his perspective and his experience in SEO strategy and how he's dealing with shifting this or changing.

[Unknown Host]

It within the enterprise and corporate environment.

[Jason Lax]

With that, Jason, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks for having me.

[Unknown Host]

I love the topic here because I think as SEOs, we oftentimes just gravitate into these technical and tactical changes and, and it's like a lot of the.

[Jason Lax]

Things that we like talking to each.

[Unknown Host]

Other, but I feel like at the end of the day, some of the most valuable can be like, well, how do we actually bring this to life within an organization? And especially when we're working within a large global enterprise organization, the complexities just balloon out from it. So maybe to kind of like start us off.

[Jason Lax]

Like I'm sure most all the listeners.

[Unknown Host]

Are familiar with SAP, but maybe you.

[Jason Lax]

Could kind of just paint the picture.

[Unknown Host]

A little bit better on like the.

[Jason Lax]

Magnitude of the business and kind of.

[Unknown Host]

Like the world that you've been operating.

[Jason Lax]

In from an SEO perspective.

But we the company is 50 years old and you mentioned Freightliner before in the intro. I think it's sometimes more like the Titanic, but It's big. Over 100,000 employees, 120 countries, very large Websites, a lot of people searching not just to learn about us, but also how to use our software and evolve and so on. So a lot of different types of Personas, a lot of content to deal with, indexing, crawl, budgets. But it's also very exciting being at.

[Unknown Guest]

A place where you can try things.

[Jason Lax]

And see immediate impacts compared to other places. We've also got the authority of course to working in our favor. And then there's really interesting projects like migrations and big technical changes. And then when there's something transformative like we're going through right now with AI, which I like to compare to maybe to some extent the changes with mobile 10 years ago. It's very impactful. And at the same time we're also a technology company so we've also got the advantage of people having some inkling.

[Unknown Guest]

Or understanding of what's going on.

[Jason Lax]

Because whatever happens in B2C, which is search, we use search as consumers. Eventually there's expectations for that to be in our software, but also in B2B where we operate.

Interesting.

[Unknown Host]

And maybe too a bit more on how you're viewing these changes and shifts in it. And you made reference to kind of what we went through years back with kind of like the shift with like mobile first. So maybe like if you could elaborate.

[Jason Lax]

For the listeners a bit more of.

[Unknown Host]

Like what your perception of these changes.

[Jason Lax]

In the landscape that we're facing right now.

The main one to recognize is that Google won't be the growth engine it was as before. There are competing tools now and I.

[Unknown Guest]

Won'T say just competing searches, but there.

[Jason Lax]

Are competing offers out there to help connect people with what they want to do or know. Also, you know, with mobile, of course.

[Unknown Guest]

Most of the world now has access to the Internet. A lot of the growth we were.

[Jason Lax]

Seeing was just by the fact that more and more people were coming online. That's plateaued. Traffic from Google has plateaued. 10 blue links are out, 0 clicks are in.

[Unknown Guest]

We look at our click through rates, our click through rates are a third of what they were 10 years ago. So major, major shifts in the search.

[Jason Lax]

Experience, how people use search. No natural growth in markets anymore as in search markets.

[Unknown Guest]

So it's a very, very interesting and dynamic time.

[Jason Lax]

We appreciate or know how fast things.

[Unknown Guest]

Are changing and are going to change.

[Jason Lax]

Which with that I feel like you.

[Unknown Host]

Hit on a really important piece where it's not just how the landscape is changing, but there's also shifts and changes to consumer behavior. I've recognized it with myself, but I feel like we're seeing and the conversations have been out there for a little while, but it's like we're actually feeling.

[Jason Lax]

Those shifts in consumer behavior now.

[Unknown Host]

What's your kind of take on how the shifts are taking place and what are they?

[Jason Lax]

I grew up in Canada and there.

[Unknown Guest]

Was a media professor named Marshall McLuhan.

[Jason Lax]

So I wrote it down to. He's attributed with the quote, like, we shape our tools.

[Unknown Guest]

And thereafter our tools shape us.

[Jason Lax]

We create these things and then we.

[Unknown Guest]

Start to use them.

[Jason Lax]

And eventually it has an impact on how we do things. And it's always fascinating to watch young people like kids, like my older son's in grade eight, how he uses things. I mean, my kids went straight to voice search. Why bother typing? And they've got the language challenges too, and stuff. But they use voice search before they can type in different languages because it's easier for them. And I'm learning a lot from observing how they use it because they're using these tools for the first time, whereas I'm biased because I've got 25 years of using search engines or maybe more. So I approach things from a different perspective. I look at AI and think this is an evolution of search when it's not only that. So we think about, in marketing, it's always useful to ask somebody, like, why are you doing this? And you keep asking why until you get to the center of it.

[Unknown Guest]

Whether it be like, why do you.

[Jason Lax]

Keep going back to the same restaurant? And eventually that restaurant's a Greek restaurant.

[Unknown Guest]

You had your honeymoon in Greece, so.

[Jason Lax]

Of course you're going to go back.

[Unknown Guest]

To Greek restaurant because it reminds you.

[Jason Lax]

Of that magic time.

[Unknown Guest]

Same thing with search.

[Jason Lax]

Search for the most part has been about connecting people with information, because through that information you can do stuff. Now what happens when you can get.

[Unknown Guest]

The tools to do the stuff for you?

[Jason Lax]

You know why? I mean, I caught myself doing this. I was using search to call restaurants for reservation. Well, I can ask Siri to make the call for me. And usually it does it pretty well. So I don't need to search for phone number anymore. The next evolution is for to bypass websites entirely or these tools and have it make the reservation for me. So I'm getting a bit ahead of myself. But that's where the changes are starting to happen.

[Unknown Guest]

The greater efficiency and then looking at.

[Jason Lax]

This not just from the search perspective, but to the core of it, like, what am I trying to accomplish and.

[Unknown Guest]

How can these tools do it for me? And that just opens up a realm.

[Jason Lax]

Of really infinite different experiences that we need to Start thinking about.

[Unknown Host]

I love that quote and that perspective too of it's not one or the other. And I feel like that lasts kind of example or anecdote. Like I remember too.

[Jason Lax]

Like the only phone numbers I have.

[Unknown Host]

Memorized are the phone numbers of like my childhood friends. When you didn't have everything like programmed and set and you had to actually, you know, punch in the numbers. I don't think I've memorized the phone number in the last like probably 20 years. Yeah, even the people that I call.

[Jason Lax]

The most frequently now.

[Unknown Host]

And so it is like a great illustration of how it's not just shifts in the technology but eventually those technology.

[Jason Lax]

Shifts shift our behaviors and our actions.

[Unknown Host]

In a lot of ways.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[Jason Lax]

Again, this is like Siri, not just.

[Unknown Guest]

For stuff in your own phone book.

[Jason Lax]

This is like I was testing it before like call Domino's Pizza and it does it. So I don't need to log on somewhere and say what phone number? Go to Google Maps and click the button.

[Unknown Guest]

I literally shorten the path with these.

[Jason Lax]

Tools because that's what I wanted to do, you know, and my goal wasn't to find the phone number. My phone number was to call and.

[Unknown Guest]

Order a pizza because I'm starving and.

[Unknown Host]

I feel like it's a, I don't.

[Jason Lax]

Know, I know a lot of people that brings like anxiety of this change.

[Unknown Host]

And it's like there's an uncomfort level in there. But like personally I'm feeling like really.

[Jason Lax]

Energized in that it's forcing this broadening.

[Unknown Host]

Perspective where it's like rather than focusing just on like strict Google rankings, like.

[Jason Lax]

We'Re having to more of think about.

[Unknown Host]

Like what is the overall objective. And like to me moving forward is.

[Jason Lax]

It'S not just how are you influencing.

[Unknown Host]

Your rankings in Google, but we're going to have to be thinking about influencing how agents work, optimizing through different platforms. And so it's like to me there was like almost like a beginning broader sense.

[Jason Lax]

We narrowed into Google specifically in one.

[Unknown Host]

Form of Google and now there's like this broadening again of whether it's verticalization.

[Jason Lax]

Of channels in search or even like emerging pieces that we haven't kind of touched.

[Unknown Host]

But it's like to me, I like that kind of like increased complexity which is one of the pieces that attracted me to search in the beginning was the complexity, the fast paced change. And I think like as an industry.

[Jason Lax]

We should be well prepared to embrace.

[Unknown Host]

These changes rather than kind of be intimidated by them.

[Jason Lax]

Yeah, actually I think we need to appreciate that as SEOs, we've got the skill sets other people don't, and understanding how, for example, agents crawl and index content and understand content and the tools to check that.

[Unknown Guest]

So we have different perspectives and different skill sets that can really contribute to these evolving experiences.

[Jason Lax]

And you touched on something important. So, you know, was it really about the rankings or the traffic?

[Unknown Guest]

If you keep asking the question, why were rankings important? Why were the clicks important?

[Jason Lax]

It's because ultimately you want to sell something. Whether we want to get people on the site to sell advertising or we want them to buy our product to influence those decisions, to generate leads, to inform them.

[Unknown Guest]

For the government, for example, or an agency, we need to provide information to people, we need to make it accessible.

[Jason Lax]

So all those metrics were useful in indicating where we were going, but ultimately was about doing something and it's still about that. And when we're feeling a bit overwhelmed, it's useful to take a step back and say, look, our organization's purpose is to do this. And then how do I achieve that? With of course, search as we know it today still and so on, but also all these new experiences and then kind of work our way backwards.

[Unknown Host]

And maybe with that, I feel like that's a great segue into the mindset shift of how we need to be, I guess, thinking about this for shifts in strategy. So building from that, how are you shifting your perspective or your, I don't know, prioritization? How is your mindset changing in forms of strategy?

[Jason Lax]

One, of course is to get the change, the strategy shift. And that relies a lot on data. So of course a lot of people in North America or English speaking countries take for granted that AI reviews have been the norm for a year now. But these actually rolled out in different languages across the entire year.

[Unknown Guest]

So people like in Germany for example.

[Jason Lax]

Or Japan only started seeing it at the beginning of this year or actually the beginning of April in the case of Germany. So this is going to feed itself and now traffic is starting to plateau or drop and that's of course going to invariably cause people to ask what's going on and what we do about it. So you need to be ready about it. So then how do you pivot again, going back to really focusing on what our goals are, looking at our different.

[Unknown Guest]

Tools available to us.

[Jason Lax]

But one thing, you know, again, accepting that things are going to change and are changing, but also exploring new opportunities. So one thing that was never possible with just keyword rankings alone was really getting clear feedback on what, what the.

[Unknown Guest]

Feedback was, what these search Engines were.

[Jason Lax]

Thinking, or I should say the AI agents and then what people were seeing. And now you can create, you can get a lot of insights about to inform your content strategy by creating lots of prompts. And as long as you're right, you can get very pointed feedback and understand based on what data is out there, what the perception of your brand and your products are, and then shift focus against that. That's something that keyword rankings alone wouldn't tell you necessarily. So that's one type of strategic shift is getting more insights to inform your content strategy and then getting people away.

[Unknown Guest]

From thinking just about rankings and clicks.

[Jason Lax]

And saying we've got the ability to influence our visibility in search. And not just search, also perhaps in Discover, shopping, maps, why this is important, you know, why making it easier for.

[Unknown Guest]

People to call you when they need.

[Jason Lax]

To without having to look up your phone number becomes really relevant again. It's about connecting people.

[Unknown Guest]

Connecting.

[Jason Lax]

That's fundamentally what it is. For the most part. It does seem daunting and we're still learning as we go along. But if you don't try anything and you don't start, you need to be left behind very quickly.

No, And I appreciate too in like.

[Unknown Host]

Your description of it because it's really like almost like a coming back to.

[Jason Lax]

Basics in some forms.

[Unknown Host]

Like, yeah, the complexity is growing wildly, but it's like, I feel like a.

[Jason Lax]

Bit of what you're describing is like.

[Unknown Host]

Well, come back to the source and more of like consumer behavior.

[Jason Lax]

Understanding the consumer behavior, you understand where.

[Unknown Host]

They are, then you understand the areas that you need to compete, then you can form tactics and strategies from those. But I think like, maybe too often we get stuck on the current tactics rather than taking that step backwards. And to understand, well, like, well, how.

[Jason Lax]

Is the consumer behavior shifting?

[Unknown Host]

Which then is just going to tell.

[Jason Lax]

Me where I need to put my.

[Unknown Host]

Attention and then it tells you more of like the problem than that you're approaching. Because I think as SEOs and generalizing for most part, but I feel like.

[Jason Lax]

As SEOs, we're typically pretty good at problem solving.

[Unknown Host]

But some of the pain points that I've seen in conversations is taking that.

[Jason Lax]

Step back and knowing what the right problem is that you're solving.

[Unknown Host]

And I think that's where a lot of the shifts in strategy need to occur. Is maybe your core problem is a little bit different. Is your, you know, trying to solve.

[Jason Lax]

How do you show up in Discover.

[Unknown Host]

Or shopping, like you said, and in different places that are going to have different weights, different factors, different elements which would change your priorities in, like, the overall sense.

[Jason Lax]

It's an important point. I mean, like, in many ways we've been lucky. I mean, you would optimize for Google and the assumption was that everybody else.

[Unknown Guest]

Was trying to emulate Google.

[Jason Lax]

And as long as you focus on Google and make them happy or successful at that, except for China, of course, which has a different environment, you'll be successful. And now it's like, well, Google's just in one corner now and you've got all these other things too, and it becomes a bit daunting. But like you said, you go back to the core, what we're trying to accomplish, what we're trying to do, and that becomes your foundation. And then you look at what's available because again, beyond search, you also had social.

[Unknown Guest]

Social is not something that was around 20 years ago.

[Jason Lax]

You know, we had to adapt to that often with different teams. Paid also has evolved. So a lot of different things. Video, of course, which is kind of social, but yeah, it's its own thing. And the other important thing to recognize.

[Unknown Guest]

Too, at the enterprise level is that you're also very often working across different.

[Jason Lax]

Geographies in different languages. So you've also got the advantage, which is nice of. I mean, Google doesn't rule things out universally. AIO reviews literally took a year, and.

[Unknown Guest]

I don't even think they're available in the Philippines yet. This should be soon.

[Jason Lax]

You learn as you go along gives you a chance to experiment. So by the time something is an algorithm is updated or something a feature is available in a different country, like the new AIs they're introducing in the United States, you're ready for it in the other market. So the pace is picked up. Of course, you don't have forever, but you can learn as you go along.

[Unknown Guest]

As it's rolled out, because it's not.

[Jason Lax]

All at once, which is regulations too.

[Unknown Guest]

Is something else, of course, right?

[Jason Lax]

I mean, China has its own environment for certain reasons. But then United Arab Emirates announced that.

[Unknown Guest]

They'Re giving ChatGPT Advanced or Pro for everybody now.

[Jason Lax]

So that'll be a very interesting market to look at.

Interesting.

[Unknown Host]

And I feel like we could dig quite a bit deeper into how strategies are evolving. But I think something that's less discussed in these type of conversations is how.

[Jason Lax]

Do you bring that to life in.

[Unknown Host]

An organization and especially an organization, the size and complexity, like you mentioned in the very beginning, I think you said over 100,000 people.

[Unknown Guest]

109, last check.

[Jason Lax]

Yeah, it's grown a bit since I.

[Unknown Host]

Started here, which is wild.

[Jason Lax]

That's bigger than most, a lot of cities.

[Unknown Host]

And so if you have an organization of 10, okay, you're going to have some challenges. But I mean overall it's pretty linear and pretty direct of what you're doing, you know, trying to work through. So it's something with the magnitude of your organization, like how do you even start to approach the, you know, communication and getting buy in of making these changes and these shifts?

[Jason Lax]

Yeah, I just realized like the town I live in is actually 106,000 people, which is the same size as the organization. A lot of it is about data and education and it's not as daunting as it seems. At the end of the day, we often operate like an agency within the organization, work with a lot of great.

[Unknown Guest]

People in different places.

[Jason Lax]

And it's nice when people reach out to me after a long time to do things as simple as like marking up our campus we're building in India or how to optimize or deal with spam. Unfortunate realities. But a lot of it boils down to data education. At the end of the day, people are trying to accomplish something they want to learn and you're there for them, you help them. And every opportunity to teach somebody is also an opportunity to learn from them about what their challenges are and then you can go out, help them successfully too.

[Unknown Guest]

So that's, that's one thing.

[Jason Lax]

And also, you know, sometimes you have to admit that you don't know the answer, but it's providing them with the tools also and support to help them accomplish. And as SEOs, I think we also take for granted a lot of the skill sets we have that can help in different ways and the unique perspectives we bring towards things. It's like I have a big stick and this has to be done. Of course you need, sometimes you have to put your stake in the ground. It's like, no, this has to change and so on. But it's a lot about multi year relationships and being an authority on things and helping that those relationships mean for something when you need to get things done or cause a shift in strategy.

[Unknown Host]

And like within that I feel like you hit on two really important factors where there's, regardless of the size of the organization, there's a human element. So you, it's like you made reference to the relationships and obviously the longer that you've been in an organization is going to lean in to some of that. And I think like that's something, you know, that I've said multiple times this.

[Jason Lax]

Podcast of like pushing SEOs to lean into.

[Unknown Host]

It's like lean into those relationships, build that kind of familiarity. And then there's also, you said earlier, like the data side. And I think right now with global.

[Jason Lax]

Rollout, like, we're seeing larger impacts to.

[Unknown Host]

Whether it's consumer behavior, traffic, numbers. But I feel like there's opportunity in ways to use that impact as like.

[Jason Lax]

A sense of urgency.

[Unknown Host]

And typically like the larger the organization, the more. And you said it's like a shifting direction of the Titanic. It feels like sometimes a sense of urgency is something that's needed to make those large changes.

[Jason Lax]

Yeah, the Titanic might be a bad example because I don't want to sound like I'm panicking or anything, but that's important is not to panic and really thinking about things and helping people focus.

[Unknown Guest]

On how to move forward.

[Jason Lax]

Just enough reassuring like this was expected, this has been happening.

[Unknown Guest]

And then how do we move forward.

[Jason Lax]

From this and what's important? And unfortunately it's not like when mobile came online and we can see traffic starting to come in through mobiles at a greater percentage and eventually more than half in some cases. We have a lack of data now, which is also frustrating. So that's something that we have to admit.

[Unknown Guest]

We don't know how often people are.

[Jason Lax]

Searching for us in AI or chatbot. So on same ways.

[Unknown Guest]

I've had a smart speaker for over.

[Jason Lax]

A decade and I don't know how.

[Unknown Guest]

Often people search for what is SAP.

[Jason Lax]

In a smart speaker like Amazon or something. That's one thing. But yeah, tying it back also to.

[Unknown Guest]

Like, hey, you're using this for your own personal life.

[Jason Lax]

You're using Alexa to order stuff at home.

[Unknown Guest]

Eventually these experiences are also going to.

[Jason Lax]

Impact our business, unless they already are. So how do we prepare for that? And it becomes a collaborative effort, a team effort, marching towards the same goal, acknowledging the fact that what we've gotten used to in our consumer lives is becoming the norm also in B2B.

Well, maybe on that last piece because I feel like that's such a critical.

[Unknown Host]

Element of going in the same direction. We've talked about size of organization, adding complexities. So it's like we have everyone that's recognizing great something's happening.

[Jason Lax]

We need to change how do you.

[Unknown Host]

Help guide people or ensure that everyone's.

[Jason Lax]

Going in that same direction?

[Unknown Host]

Instead of one group going here, one group going there, and this kind of shifting in directions which then obviously now you're into almost a herding cat perspective. So how do you help kind of lead people in going into one direction rather than People kind of choosing their own adventure.

[Jason Lax]

I think that's a broader question about how organizations keep everybody marching towards the same goal. So a strong organization has very clear.

[Unknown Guest]

Defined goals about what we're trying to.

[Jason Lax]

Accomplish and even within our area of the organization. And as long as you can measure that properly, that helps things along the way. Like I mentioned at the start, I think that a lot of our search traffic is from existing users of our application and helping them directly has a benefit on its own, right? I don't have a clear answer to that question yet, but it's always been about just being there and providing a perspective and often implanting yourself in all the conversations that need to be had. When there's a site migration, you want to get involved because of course you need to think that, okay, we're going to go through this massive effort of migrating a website or moving a website to another place. How do we take advantage of that.

[Unknown Guest]

To shape the website in a way.

[Jason Lax]

To apply schema markup so that it's.

[Unknown Guest]

Ready for the next five years?

[Jason Lax]

That's one example. The other also is working with the teams on reporting analytics. I keep a diary of anything significant that's changed, whether it's a site fault or Google algorithm update or even a major holiday.

[Unknown Guest]

Easter was in March last year and this year was in April.

[Jason Lax]

The seasonality impacts numbers too and might have hidden some of the AI overview impacts of course as well. So providing that information puts you at the forefront things, it sometimes becomes a lot of work.

[Unknown Guest]

I also mentioned education too.

[Jason Lax]

When you're in a large organization, you.

[Unknown Guest]

Also have a very large intranet.

[Jason Lax]

So the more you publish internally also.

[Unknown Guest]

Makes you more findable.

[Jason Lax]

So people randomly reach out to me just because I published a how to guide 10 years ago for YouTube. Very worthwhile investment. But yeah, I need to update. But yeah, so little things like that have a compounding impact.

[Unknown Host]

I think that's a great takeaway for people to make is it's like you need to be looking at the bigger picture. And it's like that little kind of recommendation of adding to the documentation where people are. It's like the larger the organization, the greater need and significance you have in documentation. So it's like that's something that I think, you know, some people are going to overlook look past because it's tedious, it's maybe a little annoying, but it's like putting out that effort to have that placement and it kind of feels or I like the way that you phrased it in the sense where it's Almost like our same tactics in search of like.

[Jason Lax]

Yeah, build out the content so you can be more discoverable and higher visibility.

[Unknown Host]

And so putting that practice internally I think makes a ton of sense.

[Jason Lax]

Yeah, I think all the frequently asked.

[Unknown Guest]

Questions I was being asked 10 years.

[Jason Lax]

Ago became how to guides just one pagers. And it's funny how much traction they still have today. But I save time because frequently asked questions. Here you go.

[Unknown Host]

The larger the organization, the more then.

[Jason Lax]

You become your own entity within the org.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

So I feel like one piece that kind of shines through in this conversation is. And I don't know, maybe I'm going out on a limb of it, but I feel like a lot of your responses and perspectives, it seems to be that you have just like a really strong observational sense where you're watching these changes. And it feels almost like you're having like a broader perspective because it's very easy in the day to day to get caught up into the like what immediately is being asked or what immediately is in front of me. But I feel like the way you've described this is it feels like you have like a very observational nature to be picking up on these kind of minor pieces that then you can be using into those tactics. Like, I mean, I don't know, maybe I'm being too presumptuous in this, but I feel like there's, you've, you've called out several things which is to me it just like shows more of like this like broader attention to detail, but it's like more of like observing everything that's going on. And so it's like, it feels like that can be used as like a strong tool in then knowing the next.

[Jason Lax]

Move or being more strategic in those.

[Unknown Host]

Next moves, which is I feel like something that we have to be reminding ourselves of in how search or data retrieval is evolving. But it feels like that's like a fundamental piece that is maybe in your approach.

[Jason Lax]

Yeah. Trying stuff and sometimes breaking stuff is actually my parents are probably still upset me about breaking a few too many things at home. But trying things is really important too. I mean, how much you can do.

[Unknown Guest]

I mean ahead of this call I was thinking like wait, realistically, can I ask Siri to make phone calls for me?

[Jason Lax]

And yeah, I mean like I'm bypassing search entirely now because I'm just getting.

[Unknown Guest]

Something else to do the work for me.

[Jason Lax]

And I encourage everybody to try to really think about when they're doing random.

[Unknown Guest]

Queries on their phone.

[Jason Lax]

Think about, okay, why am I doing this? What I want to accomplish, and can an AI chatbot do it for me now? Can my assistant on my phone do.

[Unknown Guest]

It for me directly without needing for a search?

[Jason Lax]

And then understand that you're not the only one doing this, and especially if you grew up in the age of Google, if you started using the Internet in the last century. Funny when you put it that way.

[Unknown Guest]

But that's the truth.

[Jason Lax]

Think about people who were born in this century, are using these tools, and then realize that there is now a.

[Unknown Guest]

Thing called legacy search. And there's something else entirely that's shifting.

[Jason Lax]

And I personally think where we're going is beyond websites.

[Unknown Guest]

This whole.

[Jason Lax]

I think Microsoft, the CEO Satya, has been saying a lot of interesting things about the death of software as a service. And when you read into that, it's like. It's like, in terms of SEO, websites are really inefficient at crawling and parsing so many different types of websites and stuff. What if you can use a different language to connect things directly? And that's personally where I think we're going as an SEO. What's really exciting is that, Wait a sec. I understand a bit about how this works and could work and start thinking about that now. So I stay ahead. So I might be getting a little too far myself now, but just keep asking, why?

[Unknown Guest]

Why are you doing something?

[Jason Lax]

And you realize, wait a second. Can something do that? I bet my son, again, grade eight, he was a bit embarrassed by this. He got caught using ChatGPT to study for his foreign language test. And I was like, that's okay. That's brilliant. Keep doing that. He got chatgpt not to find the answers for him for the test or to give him sample tests.

[Unknown Guest]

He says, I need you to tutor me for this.

[Jason Lax]

And it was frightening. He was practicing pronunciations and stuff. He's using it as a tutor, not as a search. These chatbots are not search tools alone.

I love that.

[Unknown Host]

I feel like it's a refreshing reminder, too. It's like we get too conditioned into our own groove, our own view that. It's like sometimes it's like those fresh eyes can give so much more perspective into, like, the overall picture.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Because it's like we do have this, like, natural human bias, and it's like.

[Jason Lax]

It'S very common for us to get.

[Unknown Host]

Caught into our own way of thinking.

[Jason Lax]

Well, with that, that's gonna wrap up this episode of the Voice of Search podcast. Thanks again to Jason Lacks from SAP for joining us. If you'd like to get in contact with Jason you can find a link to his LinkedIn profile in the show notes, or go on over and check out his company's [e-mail] if you haven't subscribed yet and you'd like a daily stream of SEO and content marketing insights, hit the subscribe button in your podcast app or on YouTube and we'll be back in your feed in the following days. That's all for today. Thanks for checking out the Voice of Search, and we look forward to seeing.

[Unknown Host]

You in the next episode.