Voices of Search Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title:
AI/LLM Tracking and the Value Behind Answer Engine Visibility

Date:
January 19, 2026

Host:
Jordan Cooney (Voices of Search, I Hear Everything)

Guest:
Eli Schwartz (Growth Advisor, Strategic Consultant, Author of Product Led SEO)

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the turbulent evolution of SEO and content marketing in the age of generative AI and large language models (LLMs). Jordan and Eli challenge current industry fads around “AI visibility” tracking and explore what metrics and strategies genuinely matter for brands hoping to thrive as search interfaces and user behaviors rapidly transform. The discussion is candid, critical, and packed with practical insights for SEOs, growth leaders, and digital marketers.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The New State of SEO in 2025

• SEO Has Changed Dramatically: AI has moved ahead of the user click, influencing buying decisions on pricing, industry, and tools pages.
  • “[AI] is quickly rewriting how decisions are made.” (Jordan Cooney, 00:43)
• Industry Paradox: AI traffic is less than 1% of organic sessions, but influences key business decisions.
• Rise of AI Visibility Tools: Entire industry emerging to track AI mentions (ChatGPT, Google AI overviews, etc.), but the value of these metrics is questioned:
  • “Are visibility tools measuring impact or just giving teams something to report?” (Jordan, 01:38)

2. The ‘SEO is Dead’ Narrative and Why It’s Overblown

• Media Hype & Traffic Declines: 2025 saw companies hesitant to invest in SEO due to media narratives (e.g., WSJ) around SEO’s diminishing viability and Google’s algorithm updates cutting down traffic.
  • “There's been a lot of talk... that SEO is not as viable and not the best place to invest as it has been for the last two decades.” (Eli Schwartz, 03:14)
• Fact-Checking Fears: Despite decline signals (e.g., Google SGE removing traffic), Eli argues the fundamentals of SEO remain critical.

3. Reframing Success Metrics Away from ‘Traffic’

• Out with “Publish and Pray”: Publishing lots of content for traffic’s sake no longer works.
• Meaningful KPIs: Success should be defined around user engagement, conversion, and business impact—not just rankings and pageviews.
  • “You want to build something that users are going to like, not just search engines.” (Eli, 06:38)
• Case Studies: Brands like Mixpanel or Tinder got traffic from blogs that didn’t lead to revenue; content needs to match the buyer journey.

4. LLM Sessions: Conversions Over Impressions

• AI Study Data: 2 million LLM sessions analyzed; 300,000 led to conversion events.
• The New Mindset: “How are you changing that mental mindset?” (Jordan, 08:38) – Focus initiatives on what drives real leads or sales.

5. Consulting Mindset: Start with Business, Not Keywords

• Business-First Approach: Eli begins client engagements by understanding the business, sales channels, and customer journey—not rankings or keywords (09:31).
  • “My favorite example... was a B2B company... paying [an SEO agency] $15,000 a month. But ALL their customers came from the founder’s network, not search. So I told them: Stop SEO, invest in building your network!” (Eli, 09:56)

Notable Quote

“Getting traffic—if traffic is all you want, there are lots of ways to get traffic. But if conversions is what you’re looking for, the entire SEO effort has to be around: how do you bring people into this funnel, how do you convert someone into whatever it is you’re trying to do as a business?”
— Eli Schwartz, [07:54]

Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:43 – Opening statistics on AI’s role in organic traffic & visibility tools
• 03:14 – Why 2025 was a challenging year for SEO: “SEO is dead” narrative & Google updates
• 06:38 – Why traffic “for the sake of traffic” fails; new KPIs for SEO
• 09:31 – Business-first consulting; challenging the value of SEO for every company
• 12:25 – Integrating SEO with holistic marketing; why teams must break out of silos
• 15:22 – How to effectively message SEO’s impact to partners and executives

Highlights & Insights

6. SEO in a Holistic Marketing Context

• Collapsing Channels: All marketing channels (SEO, SEM, brand, social) are converging due to the AI discovery revolution. Collaboration is more important than ever.
• Reporting Real Impact: SEOs should align measurement with business objectives, LTV, and use ‘swagger’ when presenting their contribution.
  • “I don’t think SEO teams have enough swagger. SEM teams talk about ROI and LTV. SEO needs to come in with business numbers too.” (Eli, 19:38)
• Brand vs. Non-Brand Contribution: SEOs should claim credit for branded and non-branded impact—start at the top, not from secondary metrics.
  • “At SurveyMonkey, SEO was responsible for $200 million in first-click revenue—2/3 of the conversion journey.” (Eli, 20:56)

7. The Hype and Pitfalls of ‘AI/LLM Visibility’ Tracking

• Too Granular, Lacking Business Value:
  • “The industry’s getting too granular on what visibility means. This is just rank tracking again—measuring prompts instead of customers.” (Eli, 25:14)
• Tools Lack Integrity: Many “visibility” tracking tools can’t replicate real LLM prompts, and often don’t reflect real user experience.
  • “It’s really, really hard to measure this because... you don’t know if any of those prompts are real... I can’t replicate the prompt experience that the tools are claiming that I had.” (Eli, 25:43)
• Mentions & Citations: Being cited in places like Reddit/Quora is overhyped. Genuine, wide-reaching brand discussion/citations matter more than gaming a single source.

Memorable Critique:

“CMOs and agencies rush into ‘let’s go and game Reddit’... then the LLMs are learning and will say, ‘Reddit is not reliable anymore’”
— Eli Schwartz, [32:09]

8. Strategic Recommendations for the AI Era

• Focus on Great Product/Genuine Awareness: AI surfaces brands and experiences that genuinely fit user intent.
• Invest in Real Content & User Experience:
  • “Do good SEO and then create great experiences for customers that people want to talk about. And that’s citations.” (Eli, 36:24)
• Product Content Example: When Tinder added product pages, they quickly dominated brand-related search and AI discovery, capturing conversions.

9. The Future of SEO

• SEO Isn’t Going Away: The pull/push nature of discovery will persist through all interface changes (desktop, mobile, wearables, voice assistants).
  • “Should it be called SEO? ...But that’s the name we have and... they're going to be responsible for this new way of searching... We’re going to keep that acronym for LLMs, for wearables.” (Eli, 38:36)
• Fundamental Principles Stay Relevant: Even as models, tools, and acronyms proliferate, the core user-centered practices of SEO are still the backbone of success.

Closing & Resources

Connect with Eli Schwartz:

• LinkedIn: Eli Schwartz
• Newsletter and resources: ProductLedSEO.com

Recommended Reading:

• Product Led SEO by Eli Schwartz (available on Amazon)

Final Note (Paraphrasing Jordan, 41:31):
A big thank you to Eli Schwartz for his sharp perspectives. If you want more data-driven SEO knowledge, subscribe to the Voices of Search podcast—remember, the answers are always in the data.

Memorable Quotes Recap

• On AI visibility tools:
  “Are visibility tools measuring impact or just giving teams something to report?” — Jordan, [01:38]

• On shifting KPIs:
  “You want to build something that users are going to like, not just search engines.” — Eli, [06:38]

• On tracking prompts:
  “We’re back to that place where now we’re measuring prompts instead of measuring customers.” – Eli, [25:16]

• On the role of SEO:
  “SEO is part of this holistic marketing effort... everything is working hand in hand.” – Eli, [13:18]

• On why SEO teams must change their approach:
  “SEO teams need to come in and say, ‘Look, SEO is responsible for 2/3 of our conversions!’” – Eli, [21:00]

Useful for Those Who Haven’t Listened

This summary captures the episode's key insights, skepticism toward LLM/AI visibility fads, and actionable advice for making SEO (and marketing) genuinely impactful in the current era—grounded in Eli Schwartz’s pragmatic, business-first mindset and peppered with memorable, industry-challenging quotes.