Voices of Search Podcast: Educating LLMs & Optimizing Content for AI Search

Episode Release Date: June 9, 2025
Host: Tyson Stockton
Guest: Dale Bertrand, President at Fire and Spark

Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Voices of Search podcast, host Tyson Stockton engages in a dynamic conversation with Dale Bertrand, President at Fire and Spark, a strategic SEO and content marketing agency. The discussion centers around the evolving landscape of Search Engine Optimization (SEO) in the age of Artificial Intelligence (AI) and Large Language Models (LLMs). As AI redefines how information is sought and consumed online, Tyson and Dale delve into actionable strategies for SEO professionals to stay relevant and effective.

The Changing SEO Landscape

Tyson opens the discussion by highlighting the seismic shifts AI is bringing to SEO. Traditional SEO methods are no longer sufficient as AI-driven search engines become the primary source of information for users. Dale Bertrand emphasizes the inevitability of this transformation, stating:

“SEO has been a discipline, a separate technical discipline for a very short period of time. And that is over.” ([03:48])

He explains that the rise of AI necessitates a blend of technical SEO skills with marketing acumen to navigate the new era effectively.

The Shift from Technical SEO to Marketing

Dale elaborates on the transition from purely technical SEO to a more integrated approach that encompasses marketing strategies. He argues that understanding consumer behavior, crafting the right messaging, and employing PR are becoming essential components of successful SEO. Dale notes:

“A lot of SEOs don't see themselves as marketers.” ([05:36])

This perspective underscores the need for SEO professionals to adopt broader marketing skills to complement their technical expertise.

Relevance Over Rankings

The conversation shifts to the importance of relevance in content over traditional ranking metrics. With AI capable of providing concise answers directly within search results, the focus for SEOs must be on creating content that genuinely meets user intent and needs. Dale emphasizes:

“What’s really going to happen is that the new stuff is marketing. It’s getting back to marketing and that’s really what’s changing.” ([05:18])

This highlights a pivotal move from optimizing for search engine algorithms to prioritizing user-centric content strategies.

Measuring SEO Performance Beyond Rank Tracking

Dale critiques the conventional reliance on rank tracking as an outdated metric in modern SEO. Instead, he advocates for measuring the effectiveness of content based on its ability to engage and convert users. He explains:

“Traditional ranks tracking is [dead].” ([11:39])

He further illustrates that the future of SEO lies in being part of meaningful conversations and providing valuable insights that AI can use to recommend content effectively.

The Future Skills for SEOs

As the episode progresses, Dale outlines the essential skill sets that SEOs need to develop to stay ahead. He suggests adding marketing skills such as PR, customer research, and content strategy to their technical foundation. Additionally, Dale points out the growing importance of automation and AI training:

“If you have experience in technical SEO, one of the core values that you bring to the table going forward is your ability to train agents to do what you do.” ([28:13])

This dual expertise allows SEOs to leverage AI tools while maintaining a strategic marketing perspective.

Embracing the Mindset Shift

Dale encourages SEOs to embrace a mindset shift towards a more holistic approach that integrates marketing insights with technical prowess. He believes that those who adapt will find new opportunities and continue to thrive in the evolving SEO landscape:

“The future is bright for SEOs who make the mindset shift.” ([30:15])

This optimism is grounded in the belief that combining technical skills with marketing strategies will enhance the value and effectiveness of SEO professionals.

Conclusion

In conclusion, this episode of the Voices of Search podcast provides a comprehensive exploration of how SEO is transforming in the face of AI advancements. Tyson Stockton and Dale Bertrand offer valuable insights into the necessity of integrating marketing skills with traditional SEO practices. They advocate for a user-centric approach focused on relevance and engagement, moving away from outdated metrics like rank tracking. By embracing this mindset shift and expanding their skill sets, SEO professionals can navigate the new era of AI-driven search, ensuring their content remains visible and impactful.

Listeners are encouraged to adapt and evolve, leveraging both technical and marketing expertise to meet the demands of an AI-enhanced search environment. As Dale aptly summarizes:

“If you can be the person who knows how to automate and generate insights from SEO analyses, you’re 10x more valuable.” ([29:18])

This forward-thinking approach positions SEOs to not only survive but thrive amidst the rapid changes reshaping the digital marketing landscape.

For more insights and to connect with Dale Bertrand, visit Fire and Spark or check out Dale's LinkedIn profile in the show notes.