One signal that matters more in AI search than Google

Summary

Podcast Summary: Voices of Search

Episode: One signal that matters more in AI search than Google
Date: June 3, 2026
Host: Jordan Cooney
Guest: Carl Kleinschman, Founder at Data Marketing Group

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Episode Overview

This episode of "Voices of Search" delves into the evolving landscape of SEO—especially as it relates to the rise of AI-driven discovery engines and large language models (LLMs). Host Jordan Cooney is joined by Carl Kleinschman, an 18-year veteran in SEO and founder of Data Marketing Group, to discuss how the game has shifted from traditional keyword focus to understanding searcher intent. The conversation hones in on why intent is the single most critical signal for AI-powered search and how SEOs can adapt to thrive in the new environment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Shift from Keywords to Intent

• Main Thesis:
  Carl asserts that optimizing for LLMs is fundamentally different from optimizing for Google Search. Instead of cramming content with important keywords, it's become vital to directly address the underlying intent behind users' queries.

  • Quote:
    "What triggers the event in SEO? If you wrote good content and had all the important words you could rank in an LLM. If you are fundamentally addressing the concern of why they are searching this thing..."
    — Carl Kleinschman (00:49)

• Practical Implication:
  SEOs are encouraged to focus less on keyword density or competitive phrases, and more on deeply understanding why people ask certain questions—then aligning content to effectively resolve those core concerns.

Fan Out Analysis and Local Rank Tracking

• Fan Out Analysis:
  Though not fully detailed in this short segment, Carl alludes to advanced analytic practices like "fan out analysis," which likely refers to understanding how search queries branch into diverse intents and exploration paths.

• Local Rank Tracking:
  Carl’s background in local SEO and data systems is cited, emphasizing the growing role of granular data and localized search behaviors in a highly personalized AI-driven web.

LLM Optimization Strategy

• LLM Optimization ≠ Traditional SEO:
  Traditional tactics are insufficient with AI-powered answers; content must demonstrate relevance to the searcher’s true goals, not just mirror their query strings.

  • Memorable Reiteration:
    “LLM optimization is really about intent, not keywords.”
    — Paraphrased summary, highlighted by Jordan and Carl (00:22)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Intent First:
  “If you are fundamentally addressing the concern of why they are searching this thing...”
  — Carl Kleinschman (00:49)

• Reframing SEO:
  Carl’s discussion highlights a seismic shift in what matters most for ranking, stressing a more empathetic, user-centric approach versus the mechanical tactics of the past.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:22 — Introduction of Carl Kleinschman; overview of topics including fan out analysis, local rank tracking, and LLM optimization.
• 00:49 — Carl’s statement on the primacy of intent over keywords for LLM and AI-powered discovery engines.
• 02:40 — Closing remarks; how to follow up with Carl or subscribe for more episodes.

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Overall Tone & Style

The tone of the episode is insightful yet accessible, focusing on actionable SEO mindset shifts as the industry adapts to new AI-powered realities. Jordan and Carl keep the discussion practical, urging listeners to rethink standard practices and adopt a more nuanced, intent-focused strategy for content optimization.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• The Old Approach: Filling pages with keywords isn’t enough for AI/LLM search ranking.
• The New Signal: Genuine understanding and servicing of user intent are paramount.
• Action Step: Rethink your content approach—consider why users search, not just what they type.

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In Carl’s words:
“If you are fundamentally addressing the concern of why they are searching this thing…” (00:49)

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For further connection, listeners are invited to find Carl Kleinschman’s contact info in the show notes or visit his company website, Carlk AI. As always, the episode closes with the reminder: “The answers are always in the data.”

Transcript

[Jordan Cooney]

The Voices of Search Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice then visit iheareverything.com I'm Jordan Cooney and

joining me today is Carl Kleinschman, founder at Data Marketing Group, an 18 year SEO veteran focused on local SEO, large scale data systems and LLM optimization. Today we're talking about fan out analysis, local rank tracking and why LLM optimization is really about intent, not keywords. What's one signal that matters more in AI discovery than Google search?

[Carl Kleinschman]

What triggers the event in SEO? If you wrote good content and had all the important words you could rank in an LLM. If you are fundamentally addressing the concern of why they are searching this thing,

[Sponsor/Pre Visible Representative]

you are going to struggle Time for a one minute break to hear from our sponsor Pre Visible. So you're looking for SEO help and you got a couple of options. You could start replying to spam from agencies that claim they can get you to rank number one on Google. You can pay an hourly rate for a consultant who will inevitably nickel and dime you with hourly charges. Or you can work with a cookie cutter agency to quickly launch a strategy less project with low success rate. None of those sound very good now do they? Well, that's where Pre Visible's integrated consulting model comes in. Pre Visible draws From a collective 40 years of SEO and digital marketing experience to unlock your organic growth opportunities. They build custom solutions that combine strategy, technical expertise, content and reporting to effectively operationalize SEO for your business. Pre Visible's four stage approach ensures that your SEO programs thrive by starting off with a strategy first approach. Then they support you in your efforts to create quality content, help you identify technical issues, and most importantly, they'll work with your cross functional teams to integrate your SEO strategies to make sure that your SEO budget actually drives results, not just your agency's bottom line. So join brands like Yelp, eBay, Canva, Atlassian Square, all who rely on the SEO consultants at Pre Visible. For more information go to Previsible IO That's Pre Visible P R E V I S I B L E I O

[Jordan Cooney]

Huge thank you to Carl Kleinschmidt, Founder at Data Marketing Group for joining us. If you'd like to contact Carl, you can find a link to his LinkedIn profile in our show notes or on the voicesofsearch.com you can also visit his company website Carlk AI. If you haven't subscribed yet and want a daily stream of SEO and content marketing knowledge in your podcast feed. Hit the subscribe button in podcast app or on YouTube and we'll be in your feed every week. Okay, that's all for today, but until next time, remember the answers are always in the data.

[Sam]

Sam.