Podcast Summary: Voices of Search

Episode: How AI search is reshaping visibility: from rankings to mentions
Date: February 23, 2026
Host: Jordan Cooney
Guest: Thomas Payham, CEO & Co-founder of Otterly AI

Episode Overview

This episode explores the seismic shift in SEO and digital marketing driven by the rise of AI-powered search engines and generative platforms. The central focus is on how traditional SEO metrics are becoming obsolete, the importance of tracking brand mentions over rankings, and the emerging need for new tools and strategies to navigate AI search visibility. Thomas Payham — building Otterly AI, a brand visibility and AI-sourced citation monitoring platform — shares valuable insights on the rapidly changing landscape and actionable advice for marketers.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The End of Traditional SEO Metrics

• AI Driven Paradigm Shift:

  • The rise of AI search (ChatGPT, Google Gemini, Perplexity) is revolutionizing how users find information.
  • Traditional "click" metrics and rankings are losing relevance.
  • Stat: 93% of AI model interactions result in zero clicks, and 58% of Google’s searches are now zero click.
    (Jordan Cooney, [00:43])

• New Measures of Success:

  • Marketers must now look at "visibility" — including brand mentions and citations — as key performance indicators.
  • The journey is no longer about driving direct visits but ensuring brand presence in AI-generated responses.

2. Founding Otterly AI: Origins & Approach

• Startup Origins:

  • After leading large marketing teams, Thomas noticed a lack of tools for tracking visibility in AI-powered platforms, leading to Otterly’s creation.
    (Thomas Payham, [02:52])
  • Otterly operates as a fully bootstrapped, remote-first company with over 20,000 users.

• Sticking to Marketing Fundamentals:

  • Despite rapid tech change and hype, focusing on timeless marketing principles helps navigate the AI revolution.
    (Thomas Payham, [05:35])

3. Otterly’s Differentiation & Product Vision

• End-to-End Tracking & Analytics:

  • Otterly helps users ideate relevant prompts, track brand citations/mentions, and benchmark against competitors across AI search channels.
  • High-quality, objective data is a core value proposition: “Only if you can trust the data... you can then start optimizing.”
    (Thomas Payham, [06:18])

• Unique Category:

  • AI search visibility is a distinct channel and category, much like how social media monitoring evolved separately from SEO tools ([09:59]).
  • Integration, not siloing, is essential: Connecting AI data to martech stacks, PR, content management, and CRM is crucial.

4. Growth, Recognition & Bootstrapped Advantage

• User-Centric Product Development:

  • Customer obsession, iterative improvement, and focus on real marketing use cases underlie Otterly’s organic growth ([13:11]).
  • Recognition from Gartner as an industry leader in this new category is attributed to product depth rather than "secret sauce."

• Bootstrapped Focus:

  • Staying lean and integrated (not building a monolithic suite) allows responsiveness to customer needs and more tightly focused product investments ([19:12]).

5. The Evolving AI Search Visibility Stack

• Important Features for the Future:

  • End-to-end analytics: From mention in AI (e.g., ChatGPT) through to website engagement and CRM impact.
  • Bot and agent traffic tracking: Agents now represent 15% of some sites’ traffic.
  • Optimization tools: Frameworks for brands to increase both the frequency and quality of their mentions and citations ([15:18]).

• Multi-Channel Influence Engineering:

  • Effective AI search visibility requires harmonizing brand content and presence across Wikipedia, Reddit, community ecosystems, PR, and other channels ([33:17]).

6. Measurement & Metrics in the Age of AI Search

• Transition from Rankings to Mentions:

  • Visibility and brand mentions matter more than links; marketers should prioritize being named over being cited with links ([41:29]).
  • Impression share becomes the ‘north star’ metric, even as organic traffic declines ([44:02]).

• Entity Recognition & Content Cohesion:

  • Consistency across all online descriptions (website, Wikipedia, press, community) enhances AI understanding and boosts brand presence ([34:39]).

7. Tech Partnerships & Ecosystem Integration

• Strategic Integrations:
  • Otterly launched the first SEO tech partnership with SEMrush, now under Adobe, for data exchange ([29:59]).
  • Partnerships with PressRanger (PR), Storyblok (CMS), and Newsroom AI (editorial content) illustrate an ecosystem-first approach.

8. Lightning Round Highlights

Quick insights and advice for marketers and founders:

• Biggest myth: AI models are not influenceable — but in fact, prompt and content optimization can yield fast results ([37:47]).
• Startup advice: Avoid scaling or hiring too quickly; founders must first solve key challenges themselves ([39:14]).
• When to hire sales: Only after founders have sold to enterprises themselves ([40:19]).
• Mentions vs. links: Brand mentions in AI answers are more valuable than mere citations ([41:29]).
• Overlooked opportunities: Wikipedia presence significantly impacts AI model citations ([42:54]).
• If all SEO data vanished: Impressions/share on Google is the one metric to rebuild, focusing on brand exposure ([44:02]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“93% of intersections in AI mode result in zero clicks... In this landscape where rankings and traffic no longer tell the full story, how do you measure success?”
— Jordan Cooney ([00:43])

“It is a dedicated category because we’re looking at those dedicated channels as new emerging channels. I’d like to keep comparing it to social media...”
— Thomas Payham ([09:59])

“I’m not a big believer in building out what I would call monolithic marketing suites... I rather want to build an ecosystem.”
— Thomas Payham ([19:12])

“The most underlooked factor is entity recognition... if [descriptions] are not harmonized... ChatGPT has a harder time recognizing who we really are and what we really do.”
— Thomas Payham ([34:39])

“You have to care about getting mentioned, right? If I had to choose between getting my website linked... versus my brand mentioned, I would always opt for brand mentions...”
— Thomas Payham ([41:29])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• AI Search Paradigm Shift: [00:43]
• Otterly’s Founding Story: [02:52]
• AI Search: A New Category: [09:59]
• Product Growth and User-Centricity: [13:11]
• End-to-End Analytics & Agent Traffic: [15:18]
• Bootstrapping vs. VC: [19:12]
• Measurement & Metrics in AI Era: [25:08]
• Tech Partnerships & Integrations: [29:59]
• Multi-Channel Influence in AI Search: [33:17]
• Lightning Round (Myths, Metrics, Advice): [37:36] onward

Closing Takeaways

• Visibility in AI search now trumps classic SEO rankings and traffic.
• New strategies must cover prompt optimization, tracking mentions, harmonizing brand identity, and building tech ecosystems.
• Marketers should break down silos, connect PR, SEO, and content, and act quickly to keep pace with evolving AI search platforms.
• Bootstrapped, focused, and integrative approaches can outperform resource-heavy competitors in this new era.