Voices of Search Podcast Summary
Episode: How GenAI Uses Structured Data
Host: Jordan Cooney
Guest: Martha Van Berkel, CEO at Schema App
Release Date: June 16, 2025

Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Voices of Search podcast, host Jordan Cooney engages with Martha Van Berkel, CEO of Schema App, to explore the intricate relationship between Generative AI (GenAI) and structured data within the evolving search landscape. The conversation delves into how structured data and schema markup are pivotal in unlocking the full potential of GenAI, offering actionable strategies for SEOs and content marketers.

Evolution of AI in the Search Landscape

Martha Van Berkel begins by highlighting the shift in consumer behavior and its impact on search strategies:

“The consumer is now in conversation mode. The whole idea that we are just putting in words and expecting answers is gone.”
[02:38]

She emphasizes that search has transitioned from keyword-based queries to more conversational interactions, necessitating a refined approach to how data is presented and consumed.

The Critical Role of Structured Data and Schema Markup

Structured data emerges as a cornerstone in this new environment. Van Berkel explains its significance in ensuring AI-generated content remains clear and crawlable:

“Structured data provides precision. It ensures your AI generated content is clear, connected and crawlable.”
[03:05]

She underscores the importance of schema markup in building a robust knowledge graph, which offers contextual depth that large language models (LLMs) like GenAI require for accurate information retrieval and inferencing.

Understanding Model Context Protocol (MCP)

The discussion transitions to the Model Context Protocol (MCP) and its practical applications:

“MCP is like they're going to actually use that. So I do like that's why I think it's actually a really exciting moment...”
[06:23]

Van Berkel elaborates on how MCP serves as a universal framework that connects structured data with LLMs, facilitating seamless data ingestion and enhancing the scalability and accuracy of AI-driven search experiences.

Shift from Keywords to Entities and Topics

A significant paradigm shift discussed is the move from traditional keyword-based SEO to an entity and topic-centric approach:

“We're kind of in the middle of right now where we're still thinking about keywords... we need to think broader than keywords.”
[15:36]

Van Berkel advocates for a focus on entities—the specific topics or subjects that content revolves around—allowing for more nuanced and authoritative content creation that aligns with how GenAI interprets and delivers information.

The Future of SEO: Handcrafted vs. Automated Search Rankings

Addressing recent revelations from an antitrust lawsuit, the episode touches upon the handcrafted nature of Google's rankings:

“An overwhelming majority of Google's rankings are handcrafted.”
[20:08]

Van Berkel contemplates the implications of this approach, suggesting that while automation is integral, the human element in ranking ensures a balance between algorithmic efficiency and strategic content placement.

Actionable Frameworks for SEOs and Web Developers

To equip SEOs and web developers with practical strategies, Van Berkel outlines a structured approach:

1. Structured Website Architecture:

   “Machines love structure. Having some structure as they crawl your site and understand it.”
   [26:10]

2. Clear and Articulate Content:

   “We need to get to that really clear, articulate content that then is in that structured way.”
   [26:10]

3. Comprehensive Schema Markup:

   “How are you thinking about not just optimizing a page, but connecting the dots across your site.”
   [26:10]

She emphasizes the importance of integrating schema markup deeply into the website's content strategy, ensuring that data is interconnected and easily interpretable by both search engines and AI models.

Content Cleanup and Specialization

Van Berkel advises on the necessity of a content cleanup journey, particularly for established websites:

“Unique, deep content that's not out there in the world in any other way.”
[23:20]

She advocates for consolidating dispersed content into authoritative pages that comprehensively cover specific topics or entities, enhancing both user experience and search visibility.

Conversion Optimization as the New SEO

The conversation concludes with a forward-looking perspective on conversion optimization:

“Conversion optimization, I think, is maybe the new SEO.”
[31:46]

Van Berkel posits that the focus is shifting from merely attracting traffic to converting visitors through optimized, data-driven content that meets precise user intents, facilitated by structured data and AI integration.

Conclusion and Future Outlook

The episode wraps up with Jordan Cooney and Martha Van Berkel reflecting on the future of SEO in an AI-dominated search landscape. The key takeaway is the imperative for SEOs to embrace structured data and schema markup, not just as technical requirements but as fundamental elements that shape the authority, relevance, and discoverability of content in the age of GenAI.

Key Quotes:

• "Structured data provides that precision. It ensures your AI generated content is clear, connected and crawlable." — Martha Van Berkel [03:05]

• “We're still thinking about keywords, right? Remember when I talked about, the consumer isn't searching for keywords anymore…” — Martha Van Berkel [15:36]

• “Conversion optimization, I think, is maybe the new SEO.” — Martha Van Berkel [31:46]

Resources:

• Martha Van Berkel's LinkedIn: LinkedIn Profile
• Schema App: schemaapp.com
• Voices of Search Podcast: thevoicesofsearch.com

For more in-depth discussions on SEO and content marketing strategies, subscribe to the Voices of Search podcast available on your favorite podcast platform or visit thevoicesofsearch.com.