How To Build Lead Machine Funnels - Voices of Search // A Search Engine Optimization (SEO) & Content Marketing Podcast

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[00:00]
A
The Voices of Search Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice then visit iheareverything.com welcome to the Voices of Search Podcast. A member of the I Hear Everything Podcast network, ready to expedite your company's organic growth efforts. Sit back, relax, and get ready for your daily dose of search engine optimization wisdom. Here's today's host of the Voices of Search podcast, Tyson Stockton.
[00:43]
B
Hey, what's going on? My name is tyson from Previsible I.O. and joining me today is Alicia Kohlenhard, who is the CEO and co founder at Persuasion Experience. Persuasion Experience is a performance agency and Alicia has personally led 600 funnels in 120 nations. Yesterday, Alicia and I talked about how to create a million dollar landing page. And we started with kind of the first approach to it as well as kind of some of those key factors above the fold. But today we're continuing the conversation and we're going to dig into what are some of the other elements we need to think of in creating that million dollar landing page. So with that, here's my conversation with Alicia Cullen Herd, CEO and co founder at Persuasion Experience. Alicia, welcome back.
[01:29]
C
Hey Tyson, good to be back. I'm excited to keep unpacking the landing.
[01:33]
B
Page sections and like yesterday, I mean we took our time working up into it because I think that was like one of the biggest like messages that I took away from it is being precise on the audience and the needs and we're matching kind of like creating parity to that and letting that lead the content. Obviously we went into kind of above the fold in that kind of high stakes ground on the page. But I feel like there's a ton that we haven't touched on that's still super important of creating that high converting page. So what other elements do you think we need to be considering to make that kind of ideal perfect landing page?
[02:19]
C
So there's a few other panels building blocks, sections, whatever that you might call them, moving after the above the fold and the lead. Then this is kind of where you have to remember back to when we were calling this landing page our digital salesperson or our digital appointment setter. Then you have to start using your brain and thinking, okay, well when somebody lands here, what does the messaging hierarchy need to be? So I'll walk through some of the next sections in maybe no particular order, but they will all be on your page at some point, typically. So the next thing that I would normally have on the page if it wasn't after the above the fold would be our proof. Right? So there's four key ingredients to making any marketing work. Target market, understanding their language, blah, blah, blah. We've spoken about that. Number two then is the messaging. Making sure that that stands out and making sure that you come across as an authority. Number three is social proof. And number four is the offer. Without having proof on your page that you can do the thing that you say you do, then you become a commodity and not an authority. And so what we want to do is we're going to be making claims and talking about benefits, but you got to show that you can even do this right. So I'm sure you can do some like image tags. Again, haven't done SEO for a long time, whatever, optimize that. But on our page, we want to have, we want to show, we want to demonstrate what is that dream outcome that we achieve. The problem I see a lot of people making on landing pages when it comes to design is they'll just add random stock images and stuff designed to try and make it pretty. But that's not our goal. We're trying to make it persuasive. So when I talk about social proof, I don't just mean slapping on a testimonial slider and patting yourself on the back and being like, yeah, nailed it. I'm talking about social proof with intent. Right. And so again, I've got some resources on on this, but what are some examples that I can talk about verbally? So for example, with a mortgage broker, I wouldn't just have a testimonial slider. I would want to show what's the dream outcome. I would show. And this is what we have done. We would show people putting the sold sticker on their new home. The a picture of the mortgage with an approved stamp on it. And then maybe like, I don't know, the loan amount or something like. That's a real example that we've done for the hair transplant doctor that I was talking about in the previous episode. We might use before and afters. That's pretty good power of demonstration. We would also for the doctor because a lot of people are buying into the doctor. So we would show the doctor his accreditations, whatever else, like all of these logos, right? So clout jacking from the logos and building the authority of him. Maybe have a picture of him on stage, but see how all of these little social cues start to build up. If you're going to have video testimonials, don't just put them on the page and tick a box. What you want to do is pull out the best quote and have it above the video because not everybody will watch them and then force consumption of the best quote. If you're going to have text testimonials, which we still use, have a headline, have five stars, have trustpilot or a Google logo, whatever. Right. But see how all of these visual cues help to build that authority, that credibility and that believability. Because that's what we have to do, right? We have to be believable to get someone to take an action. I'll pause there. That is like the next section and you just want to like have a shitload of it on your page. That's the goal. As much proof as humanly possible.
[05:44]
B
Well, to that point, like there has to be like a point where it's just like, you know, it's like diminishing return of that. Like how could you guide someone? Is it more of. In your experience, someone has a limitation of what sources they would have, whether it's reviews, assets to use, whatnot. That's going to kind of like dictate how far to go in this aspect. Or is this something too that's like, no, by all means, like just keep digging up ways of doing it. Like what's. How would you kind of guide the audience of knowing what that sweet spot is?
[06:17]
C
Yeah, I've never seen an instance where there's too much proof on a page. Only bad proof. Only bad proof. Right. Proof that no one cares about. Proof that. For example, a lot of questions I get, should I have video on the page? Well, yes, but is it good? Like the testimonials don't have to be well spoken presenters, but a testimonial video has to follow a certain format. I was here, now I'm here. These are my hesitations. This is what my life looks like now. Yes, I would recommend this. And so if you just have somebody going, yeah, it was good, that doesn't work. So yeah, to answer your question, then another question I get is, well, what if I don't have any proof? What if my client doesn't have any proof? Well, they do. You just have to manufacture it. You have to pull it out of them. And so there's like, there's like other ways to get proof. You just have to think, how can I show the dream outcome? It's not always. Proof is not always served up to you. On a silver platter as a marketer. Right. So for example, with other clients, when I've worked in campaigns, when they may be a bit newer, I'll do proof of product. So as an example, when we once did like an Ozempic campaign, then we use like, I think it was Rebel Wilson, Oprah Winfrey and someone else doing public testimonials about using that product. And I've done the same for like a matcha t. Like these are like back in the day. Right. But you can clout jack or you can use when I've done it for property investment companies, I've used screenshots from like the Financial Review or New York Times and showing those talking about the same thing that we're talking about. So, yeah, there's no such thing as too much proof. Just ship well.
[07:56]
B
And I mean that actually perfectly lines up to. The next kind of question area is like, I think, you know, a better question than to that would be how do you determine, you know, good versus bad proof? And I think like, you already hit on probably like one of the elements where it's more of aligning to what the purpose is and like that again, to square one. Like the audience and what their pain point is. But like, would there be any guiding principles that you would, you know, someone could stress test whether or not, hey, we used a video here, but maybe it's something that should have been done through quotes or maybe they didn't have the summary pieces. Like, what potential, I guess stress tests would you have someone do to validate whether or not they're using A, the right type of proof and B, a.
[08:51]
C
Good version of that proof one your brain. And when you look at it, does it light something in your brain? Are you like, oh, yeah, that's good. We're all smart marketers here. What's your gut feel? Do you think it's going to be good or not? Right. I have a lot of experience, so I can have a pretty good gut feel. For those of you who might be a bit newer and additionally to more experienced marketers, my thing is just always start minimum viable. I think what we do as marketers is we try and overcomplicate things and get things perfect. And I do this all the time. I'm like, oh, what if another marketer sees this? I'm gonna make it so good. I'm gonna make it so perfect from a marketer point of view, and it's gonna be sick. And then it's like, no one cares. So start minimum viable. And if you have testimonials like video testimonials, test them out. You can also for SEO, you can very cheaply test stuff on ads. I know this depends if your client side, agency side and what you can do, but you can literally run video testimonials as a view campaign. Watch how long people are watching for. Like you can watch the view rate, you can watch who clicks through on what, who's engaging what comments. Like, you can easily get like signals from other places. And oftentimes when we pull that kind of proof, we're just taking it from other channels. That's already working where we know it has worked in another facet of their marketing and they just didn't think to use it in their paid ads campaigns.
[10:15]
B
That's like we kind of, I guess briefly touched on it yesterday, but I feel like that is such a great opportunity because just pace of results, like if I have minor things that I'm wanting to look at and the paid team will pick it up and kind of run it through, it's like that. It makes my life so much easier as an SEO and I think as a part of a business. As SEOs, we're completely reliant on all the other teams of execution. So it's like we need to constantly be looking for where is this shared overlap and how can I kind of join forces to get things through? Because if you're just pushing for it on your own accord, it's like you're only going to have so much impact or so much success through one set of efforts.
[11:07]
C
Yeah, basically I think that's a huge problem across marketing teams in general. Right. Like not sharing information and not helping each other. So when I was working agency side before running this agency, there might be a Google Ads team, an SEO team, a Facebook team, an ad account team, whatever. And nobody was a cross sharing what they're learning. And then when I was client side, I had to bring these teams together and make sure that what was happening on content, they were sharing their winning TikTok videos, the hooks, the angles, and the ads team were sharing their winning things and the content team were sharing their winning things. Because we all can learn from each other. Right? But to go deeper than that, then there's a huge disconnect between marketing and sales. And what's happening on the sales end is so important for us as marketers because we're just trying to enter that conversation. And so these feedback loops within a company are so, so important. If your client side, it usually starts with heads of departments actually sharing things if your agency side. I think it's more of a structural issue with teams and I believe in like the pod model instead of the different teams and having smaller agile teams that work together on client accounts because there's no information getting lost. But yeah, that's my two cents, my beefs. And I agree with you that we're not collaborating enough and repurposing what we're seeing working on other channels.
[12:30]
B
Which yeah, I think it's always a good reminder that it's like, yeah, other people probably are faced with similar problems or challenges in this and it's the same way from the SEOs of like, oh well this could be better. Being able to also see of how, you know, we are also helping their initiative and their efforts is I think so impactful for really having this take flight. But we hit on kind of like the proof component. Anything else that we should kind of be thinking about as far as like having that perfect landing page?
[13:06]
C
Yeah. So there's a couple more sections I'll talk about. Typically we have around about 10. I think we've gone over a few now. Another section that we typically always have is what we call the five to ten reasons why. This page is our digital appointment setter. Just answer the question why you now inputs and outputs. We get that from surveying and from social listening and from AI analysis of sales calls. How do they describe it? Cool. We put them into 5 to 10 reasons and that might look like something like 5 reasons why smart investors choose business X to invest in property Boom. Laying it out very simply for them in their language. That's another section. Another section is a comparison table. Sounds very simple but like no one really does it because you know they're going to be comparing you to something else. Like we exist in context. Doesn't matter if they're that problem or that solution or that product aware we spoke about in part one. But they're going to be comparing you to something. Now most of the time we overcomplicate this because we have the curse of knowledge and we are thinking they're comparing us to every competitor. That's not true. They're usually comparing us to inertia, AKA doing nothing. So what happens if you don't do any action or the old school DIY traditional way of doing something and that's actually typically what are your true competitive alternatives? So a very clear comparison table. Down the left hand side you have what we call the buyer decision questions. Okay, well what are the main problems? Pain points. Like what are they trying to look for then you have, you, you have maybe one or two other alternatives. Boom. Comparison table. And then at the very end of the page you have something that I call the page full stop. Why? And what is that? Well, when someone goes to your page, you're going to usually have three different users on a page. One is the word for worder. Every single word. They're going to read it from top to bottom. They are your ideal people. They're not everybody though. Like they look at it and they read it, they read it. Probably doesn't happen. Then you have what I call the skimmers headlines. That's why your headlines need to be benefit driven. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Whatever piques their attention, they'll get drawn into. Then again, I said this in the part one, I think because I've watched so many session recordings. You have your scrollers so straight to the bottom. And I do this, I don't know why, I just scroll straight to the bottom and I like and then I go straight to the bottom. So this full stop is for these people. And it's basically where you'll have like one panel, you'll have a headline, you'll have like your four to five, your three to five bullets and a call to action with a good image or something next to it. Why? It's basically doing a version of the above the fold at the bottom of the page, right? Because literally some people hit your page and then they just start, they just scroll to the bottom. So when you have that, you cater to all different types of users on.
[15:59]
B
A page, which is, I feel like with that you can then hone in on just those key aspects where it's like we know from the skimmers headlines, bullet points, those are gonna be the core areas of like focus scrollers. You know, there's an added weight now to that call of action at the very end kind of to it I mean every word or I don't know, maybe I'm a pessimistic, but I'd say there's not that many of them out there that read through absolutely everything. But by all means, if they do.
[16:36]
C
In boomer, in boomer markets there's a lot of them. When you, when you market to boomers, they're usually very good. And this is where it's like you got to understand how your market, they love reading everything. They'll read stuff where you're like on your website where you're like damn, I forgot that was on there. And then you're more analytical people maybe like SEO People like that more analytical mechanic. They read everything because they're highly skeptical. So you just have to spook easily, understand they trust no one. So yes, that's the differences.
[17:08]
B
Yeah, no, I think that makes sense. Well, in that same vein, would are. Do you feel like there's other parts of the page that maybe we've missed on that would also be like those kind of like high attention areas? So it's like not in the like entirety of the page, but just like other hotspots that's like. Yeah, that's also an area to double down on.
[17:32]
C
Yeah, the, the other section might be your FAQs. Just having those on their sales FAQs. Again, that's great for SEO as well because you can stuff your keywords in there, but also you want them to be like sales FAQs. But to recap, it's the above the fold, the lead social proof as frequently where it makes sense. Using social proof with intent and then having that five to seven reasons why, having the comparison table, having the FAQs, the other section that might be valuable to people because this page is our digital appointment set up is just having who are we a fit for? And you literally answer the question who are we a fit for? And then you, because you understand the market, you understand the three to five archetypes, stereotypes, avatars, whatever you might call it. And then you just literally call them out. The person who wants this, the person having a problem with this, the person, blah. And then I would usually have a video testimonial or an image or something of the person that matches that on the page as well.
[18:30]
B
That's a great point. And I guess for what it's worth on that, I'll speak for the SEO community. We don't need to keyword stuff anymore. We're past that. It was a weird, awkward phase, but now we're through it and yeah, now we're on to bigger and better things.
[18:49]
C
You've grown out of it. Yeah. And that's ultimately if you can get those sections right on a page. And I genuinely, truly from the bottom of my heart believe that what I'm teaching should be standardized for an SEO page. If you can nail this for your SEO templates and then make it work with whatever your SEO superpower is, whatever your campaigns will go off. And not only will you like, you'll be ranking because I'm sure you're all really good at that, but you'll be delivering true business outcomes, which is what we have to do. You'll be helping more people from the market to take action and you'll be delivering much better business outcomes.
[19:26]
B
And it's more and more the roles are blending over. So I think like SEOs need to know. Like to me it's like this ties into a larger conversation around more of like CRO work. And a good SEO today has to be proficient in influencing those elements because if you're not holding the user, if you're not, you know, sending them deeper into the website or converting them, that's also a signal to Google as far as whether or not you are satisfying the intent. So it's like if that is not yet a practice in your SEO strategy to work on these things, it definitely should be for the upcoming year.
[20:11]
C
Yeah, agreed.
[20:13]
B
But with that, that wraps up this episode of the Voice of Search podcast. Thanks again to Alicia Colonford from Persuasive Experience for joining us. If you'd like to get in touch with her, you can find a link to a LinkedIn profile in the Show Notes or going over to her company's.
[20:29]
A
Website@ persuasionexperience.com okay, thanks to Tyson Stockton, our guest host. If you'd like to get in touch with Tyson, you could find a link to his LinkedIn profile, our show notes. You can contact him on Twitter where his handle is TysonStockton. Or if your team is interested in SEO consulting or organizational education, you can always head to their company's website, which is Previsible IO that's P R E V I S I B L E I O. Just one more link in our show notes I'd like to tell you about. If you didn't have a chance to take notes while you were listening to this podcast, head over to voicesofsearch.com where we have summaries of all of our episodes and contact information for our guests. You can also subscribe to our weekly newsletter and you can even send us your top topic suggestions or your marketing questions, which we'll answer live on our show. Of course, you can always reach out on social media. Our handle is voicesofsearch on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or you can contact me directly. My handle is benjschapp B E N J S H A P and if you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of SEO and content marketing insights in your podcast feed. We're going to publish an episode every day during the work week, so hit that subscribe button in your podcast app and we'll be back in your feed tomorrow morning. Alright, that's it for today, but until next time. Remember, the answers are always in the data.

Summary6 min read

Voices of Search Podcast: How To Build Lead Machine Funnels Episode Released: April 8, 2025
Host: Tyson Stockton
Guest: Alicia Kohlenhard, CEO and Co-Founder at Persuasion Experience

Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Voices of Search podcast, host Tyson Stockton welcomes Alicia Kohlenhard, the CEO and Co-Founder of Persuasion Experience. With a remarkable track record of leading over 600 funnels across 120 nations, Alicia brings a wealth of expertise in crafting high-converting landing pages. Their conversation delves deep into the intricacies of building what Alicia refers to as "million-dollar landing pages," focusing on elements that drive conversions and optimize user experience.

Understanding the Foundations of a High-Converting Landing Page

Tyson Stockton ([00:42]):
"We’re going to dig into what are some of the other elements we need to think of in creating that million-dollar landing page."

Alicia emphasizes the importance of precision in targeting the audience and aligning the landing page content with their specific needs. Building upon their previous discussion about the "above the fold" elements, Alicia outlines additional critical components essential for crafting a landing page that not only attracts visitors but also compels them to take action.

Key Elements Beyond the Above the Fold

Proof as a Core Component ([02:19]):

Alicia identifies proof as a pivotal element that establishes credibility and authority. She outlines four key ingredients for effective marketing:
- Target Market Understanding: Knowing the audience deeply and speaking their language.
- Messaging: Presenting clear, authoritative content that stands out.
- Social Proof: Demonstrating trustworthiness through testimonials and endorsements.
- The Offer: Clearly presenting the value proposition.
Alicia Kohlenhard ([03:05]):
"Without having proof on your page that you can do the thing that you say you do, then you become a commodity and not an authority."
Intentional Use of Social Proof ([04:20]):

Rather than merely adding testimonial sliders, Alicia advocates for purposeful social proof that aligns with the landing page's objectives. She suggests showcasing tangible outcomes, such as real-life successes and endorsements from reputable sources.

Alicia Kohlenhard ([04:50]):
"Show what's the dream outcome that we achieve. The problem I see a lot of people making on landing pages when it comes to design is they'll just add random stock images trying to make it pretty. But that's not our goal. We're trying to make it persuasive."
Balancing Proof to Avoid Diminishing Returns ([05:43]):

Tyson raises a crucial point about the potential for overwhelming the user with too much proof. Alicia counters by asserting that quality proof is always beneficial, provided it maintains relevance and authenticity.

Alicia Kohlenhard ([06:17]):
"I've never seen an instance where there's too much proof on a page. Only bad proof."

She further explains strategies for generating proof, such as leveraging public testimonials from celebrities or recognized publications, especially when direct proof is scarce.

Collaborative Marketing Strategies

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the importance of collaboration between different marketing teams—SEO, paid ads, content, and sales. Alicia highlights the common issue of siloed teams that fail to share insights and successful strategies, thereby limiting overall effectiveness.

Alicia Kohlenhard ([11:07]):
“There’s no such thing as too much proof. Just ship well.”

She advocates for integrated approaches, such as the pod model, where smaller, agile teams work cohesively on client accounts to ensure seamless information flow and unified strategy execution.

Advanced Landing Page Components

Beyond proof and collaboration, Alicia outlines several advanced components that enhance the functionality and conversion potential of landing pages:

Five to Ten Reasons Why ([13:05]):

Crafting a clear, concise list of reasons why potential customers should choose your service or product helps in addressing common pain points and objections.

Alicia Kohlenhard ([13:05]):
“We put them into 5 to 10 reasons and that might look like something like 5 reasons why smart investors choose business X to invest in property.”
Comparison Tables ([14:10]):

Providing comparison tables allows visitors to easily see how your offering stacks up against competitors or alternative solutions. Alicia emphasizes simplifying this by focusing on key decision-making factors rather than exhaustive comparisons.
Page Full Stop ([15:58]):

This unique component serves users who scroll directly to the bottom of the page without engaging with the entire content. It mirrors the "above the fold" section by reiterating key messages and presenting a final call to action.

Alicia Kohlenhard ([15:58]):
“This full stop is for these people. It's basically doing a version of the above the fold at the bottom of the page.”
FAQs Section ([17:32]):

Including a well-crafted FAQs section not only aids SEO by incorporating relevant keywords but also addresses common queries, reducing friction in the decision-making process.

Integrating SEO and CRO for Optimal Performance

Tyson underscores the evolving role of SEOs in integrating Conversion Rate Optimization (CRO) principles. Alicia concurs, highlighting that effective SEO now requires proficiency in influencing user behavior and ensuring seamless conversion pathways.

Tyson Stockton ([19:25]):
"A good SEO today has to be proficient in influencing those elements because if you're not holding the user, if you're not sending them deeper into the website or converting them, that's also a signal to Google as far as whether or not you are satisfying the intent."

This synergy between SEO and CRO not only enhances search engine rankings but also drives meaningful business outcomes by converting traffic into tangible results.

Conclusion

In wrapping up the episode, Alicia reinforces the importance of standardizing effective landing page elements within SEO strategies. By meticulously crafting each section—from social proof to comparison tables—marketers can create landing pages that resonate with diverse user types and drive high conversion rates.

Alicia Kohlenhard ([18:49]):
"If you can nail this for your SEO templates and then make it work with whatever your SEO superpower is, whatever your campaigns will go off. And not only will you be ranking because I'm sure you're all really good at that, but you'll be delivering true business outcomes."

Tyson concurs, highlighting the necessity for SEOs to collaborate closely with other marketing teams to maximize impact and achieve cohesive, effective campaigns.

Tyson Stockton ([20:11]):
"If that is not yet a practice in your SEO strategy to work on these things, it definitely should be for the upcoming year."

Final Thoughts

This episode of Voices of Search offers a comprehensive guide to building lead machine funnels through meticulously designed landing pages. Alicia’s expertise provides actionable strategies for marketers aiming to enhance their SEO and CRO efforts, ensuring that landing pages not only attract traffic but also convert visitors into loyal customers.

For additional insights and resources mentioned in this episode, visit voicesofsearch.com and explore their episode summaries, guest contact information, and subscribe to their weekly newsletter for ongoing SEO and content marketing wisdom.

Notable Quotes:

Alicia Kohlenhard ([03:05]):
"Without having proof on your page that you can do the thing that you say you do, then you become a commodity and not an authority."
Alicia Kohlenhard ([06:17]):
"I've never seen an instance where there's too much proof on a page. Only bad proof."
Alicia Kohlenhard ([15:58]):
"This full stop is for these people. It's basically doing a version of the above the fold at the bottom of the page."
Tyson Stockton ([19:25]):
"If you can nail this for your SEO templates and then make it work with whatever your SEO superpower is, whatever your campaigns will go off... You'll be delivering true business outcomes."
Tyson Stockton ([20:11]):
"If that is not yet a practice in your SEO strategy to work on these things, it definitely should be for the upcoming year."

By following the strategies discussed in this episode, marketers can significantly enhance the effectiveness of their landing pages, driving both SEO performance and conversion rates to new heights.

Loading summary

Transcript23 lines

[00:00]
A
The Voices of Search Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice then visit iheareverything.com welcome to the Voices of Search Podcast. A member of the I Hear Everything Podcast network, ready to expedite your company's organic growth efforts. Sit back, relax, and get ready for your daily dose of search engine optimization wisdom. Here's today's host of the Voices of Search podcast, Tyson Stockton.
[00:43]
B
Hey, what's going on? My name is tyson from Previsible I.O. and joining me today is Alicia Kohlenhard, who is the CEO and co founder at Persuasion Experience. Persuasion Experience is a performance agency and Alicia has personally led 600 funnels in 120 nations. Yesterday, Alicia and I talked about how to create a million dollar landing page. And we started with kind of the first approach to it as well as kind of some of those key factors above the fold. But today we're continuing the conversation and we're going to dig into what are some of the other elements we need to think of in creating that million dollar landing page. So with that, here's my conversation with Alicia Cullen Herd, CEO and co founder at Persuasion Experience. Alicia, welcome back.
[01:29]
C
Hey Tyson, good to be back. I'm excited to keep unpacking the landing.
[01:33]
B
Page sections and like yesterday, I mean we took our time working up into it because I think that was like one of the biggest like messages that I took away from it is being precise on the audience and the needs and we're matching kind of like creating parity to that and letting that lead the content. Obviously we went into kind of above the fold in that kind of high stakes ground on the page. But I feel like there's a ton that we haven't touched on that's still super important of creating that high converting page. So what other elements do you think we need to be considering to make that kind of ideal perfect landing page?
[02:19]
C
So there's a few other panels building blocks, sections, whatever that you might call them, moving after the above the fold and the lead. Then this is kind of where you have to remember back to when we were calling this landing page our digital salesperson or our digital appointment setter. Then you have to start using your brain and thinking, okay, well when somebody lands here, what does the messaging hierarchy need to be? So I'll walk through some of the next sections in maybe no particular order, but they will all be on your page at some point, typically. So the next thing that I would normally have on the page if it wasn't after the above the fold would be our proof. Right? So there's four key ingredients to making any marketing work. Target market, understanding their language, blah, blah, blah. We've spoken about that. Number two then is the messaging. Making sure that that stands out and making sure that you come across as an authority. Number three is social proof. And number four is the offer. Without having proof on your page that you can do the thing that you say you do, then you become a commodity and not an authority. And so what we want to do is we're going to be making claims and talking about benefits, but you got to show that you can even do this right. So I'm sure you can do some like image tags. Again, haven't done SEO for a long time, whatever, optimize that. But on our page, we want to have, we want to show, we want to demonstrate what is that dream outcome that we achieve. The problem I see a lot of people making on landing pages when it comes to design is they'll just add random stock images and stuff designed to try and make it pretty. But that's not our goal. We're trying to make it persuasive. So when I talk about social proof, I don't just mean slapping on a testimonial slider and patting yourself on the back and being like, yeah, nailed it. I'm talking about social proof with intent. Right. And so again, I've got some resources on on this, but what are some examples that I can talk about verbally? So for example, with a mortgage broker, I wouldn't just have a testimonial slider. I would want to show what's the dream outcome. I would show. And this is what we have done. We would show people putting the sold sticker on their new home. The a picture of the mortgage with an approved stamp on it. And then maybe like, I don't know, the loan amount or something like. That's a real example that we've done for the hair transplant doctor that I was talking about in the previous episode. We might use before and afters. That's pretty good power of demonstration. We would also for the doctor because a lot of people are buying into the doctor. So we would show the doctor his accreditations, whatever else, like all of these logos, right? So clout jacking from the logos and building the authority of him. Maybe have a picture of him on stage, but see how all of these little social cues start to build up. If you're going to have video testimonials, don't just put them on the page and tick a box. What you want to do is pull out the best quote and have it above the video because not everybody will watch them and then force consumption of the best quote. If you're going to have text testimonials, which we still use, have a headline, have five stars, have trustpilot or a Google logo, whatever. Right. But see how all of these visual cues help to build that authority, that credibility and that believability. Because that's what we have to do, right? We have to be believable to get someone to take an action. I'll pause there. That is like the next section and you just want to like have a shitload of it on your page. That's the goal. As much proof as humanly possible.
[05:44]
B
Well, to that point, like there has to be like a point where it's just like, you know, it's like diminishing return of that. Like how could you guide someone? Is it more of. In your experience, someone has a limitation of what sources they would have, whether it's reviews, assets to use, whatnot. That's going to kind of like dictate how far to go in this aspect. Or is this something too that's like, no, by all means, like just keep digging up ways of doing it. Like what's. How would you kind of guide the audience of knowing what that sweet spot is?
[06:17]
C
Yeah, I've never seen an instance where there's too much proof on a page. Only bad proof. Only bad proof. Right. Proof that no one cares about. Proof that. For example, a lot of questions I get, should I have video on the page? Well, yes, but is it good? Like the testimonials don't have to be well spoken presenters, but a testimonial video has to follow a certain format. I was here, now I'm here. These are my hesitations. This is what my life looks like now. Yes, I would recommend this. And so if you just have somebody going, yeah, it was good, that doesn't work. So yeah, to answer your question, then another question I get is, well, what if I don't have any proof? What if my client doesn't have any proof? Well, they do. You just have to manufacture it. You have to pull it out of them. And so there's like, there's like other ways to get proof. You just have to think, how can I show the dream outcome? It's not always. Proof is not always served up to you. On a silver platter as a marketer. Right. So for example, with other clients, when I've worked in campaigns, when they may be a bit newer, I'll do proof of product. So as an example, when we once did like an Ozempic campaign, then we use like, I think it was Rebel Wilson, Oprah Winfrey and someone else doing public testimonials about using that product. And I've done the same for like a matcha t. Like these are like back in the day. Right. But you can clout jack or you can use when I've done it for property investment companies, I've used screenshots from like the Financial Review or New York Times and showing those talking about the same thing that we're talking about. So, yeah, there's no such thing as too much proof. Just ship well.
[07:56]
B
And I mean that actually perfectly lines up to. The next kind of question area is like, I think, you know, a better question than to that would be how do you determine, you know, good versus bad proof? And I think like, you already hit on probably like one of the elements where it's more of aligning to what the purpose is and like that again, to square one. Like the audience and what their pain point is. But like, would there be any guiding principles that you would, you know, someone could stress test whether or not, hey, we used a video here, but maybe it's something that should have been done through quotes or maybe they didn't have the summary pieces. Like, what potential, I guess stress tests would you have someone do to validate whether or not they're using A, the right type of proof and B, a.
[08:51]
C
Good version of that proof one your brain. And when you look at it, does it light something in your brain? Are you like, oh, yeah, that's good. We're all smart marketers here. What's your gut feel? Do you think it's going to be good or not? Right. I have a lot of experience, so I can have a pretty good gut feel. For those of you who might be a bit newer and additionally to more experienced marketers, my thing is just always start minimum viable. I think what we do as marketers is we try and overcomplicate things and get things perfect. And I do this all the time. I'm like, oh, what if another marketer sees this? I'm gonna make it so good. I'm gonna make it so perfect from a marketer point of view, and it's gonna be sick. And then it's like, no one cares. So start minimum viable. And if you have testimonials like video testimonials, test them out. You can also for SEO, you can very cheaply test stuff on ads. I know this depends if your client side, agency side and what you can do, but you can literally run video testimonials as a view campaign. Watch how long people are watching for. Like you can watch the view rate, you can watch who clicks through on what, who's engaging what comments. Like, you can easily get like signals from other places. And oftentimes when we pull that kind of proof, we're just taking it from other channels. That's already working where we know it has worked in another facet of their marketing and they just didn't think to use it in their paid ads campaigns.
[10:15]
B
That's like we kind of, I guess briefly touched on it yesterday, but I feel like that is such a great opportunity because just pace of results, like if I have minor things that I'm wanting to look at and the paid team will pick it up and kind of run it through, it's like that. It makes my life so much easier as an SEO and I think as a part of a business. As SEOs, we're completely reliant on all the other teams of execution. So it's like we need to constantly be looking for where is this shared overlap and how can I kind of join forces to get things through? Because if you're just pushing for it on your own accord, it's like you're only going to have so much impact or so much success through one set of efforts.
[11:07]
C
Yeah, basically I think that's a huge problem across marketing teams in general. Right. Like not sharing information and not helping each other. So when I was working agency side before running this agency, there might be a Google Ads team, an SEO team, a Facebook team, an ad account team, whatever. And nobody was a cross sharing what they're learning. And then when I was client side, I had to bring these teams together and make sure that what was happening on content, they were sharing their winning TikTok videos, the hooks, the angles, and the ads team were sharing their winning things and the content team were sharing their winning things. Because we all can learn from each other. Right? But to go deeper than that, then there's a huge disconnect between marketing and sales. And what's happening on the sales end is so important for us as marketers because we're just trying to enter that conversation. And so these feedback loops within a company are so, so important. If your client side, it usually starts with heads of departments actually sharing things if your agency side. I think it's more of a structural issue with teams and I believe in like the pod model instead of the different teams and having smaller agile teams that work together on client accounts because there's no information getting lost. But yeah, that's my two cents, my beefs. And I agree with you that we're not collaborating enough and repurposing what we're seeing working on other channels.
[12:30]
B
Which yeah, I think it's always a good reminder that it's like, yeah, other people probably are faced with similar problems or challenges in this and it's the same way from the SEOs of like, oh well this could be better. Being able to also see of how, you know, we are also helping their initiative and their efforts is I think so impactful for really having this take flight. But we hit on kind of like the proof component. Anything else that we should kind of be thinking about as far as like having that perfect landing page?
[13:06]
C
Yeah. So there's a couple more sections I'll talk about. Typically we have around about 10. I think we've gone over a few now. Another section that we typically always have is what we call the five to ten reasons why. This page is our digital appointment setter. Just answer the question why you now inputs and outputs. We get that from surveying and from social listening and from AI analysis of sales calls. How do they describe it? Cool. We put them into 5 to 10 reasons and that might look like something like 5 reasons why smart investors choose business X to invest in property Boom. Laying it out very simply for them in their language. That's another section. Another section is a comparison table. Sounds very simple but like no one really does it because you know they're going to be comparing you to something else. Like we exist in context. Doesn't matter if they're that problem or that solution or that product aware we spoke about in part one. But they're going to be comparing you to something. Now most of the time we overcomplicate this because we have the curse of knowledge and we are thinking they're comparing us to every competitor. That's not true. They're usually comparing us to inertia, AKA doing nothing. So what happens if you don't do any action or the old school DIY traditional way of doing something and that's actually typically what are your true competitive alternatives? So a very clear comparison table. Down the left hand side you have what we call the buyer decision questions. Okay, well what are the main problems? Pain points. Like what are they trying to look for then you have, you, you have maybe one or two other alternatives. Boom. Comparison table. And then at the very end of the page you have something that I call the page full stop. Why? And what is that? Well, when someone goes to your page, you're going to usually have three different users on a page. One is the word for worder. Every single word. They're going to read it from top to bottom. They are your ideal people. They're not everybody though. Like they look at it and they read it, they read it. Probably doesn't happen. Then you have what I call the skimmers headlines. That's why your headlines need to be benefit driven. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Whatever piques their attention, they'll get drawn into. Then again, I said this in the part one, I think because I've watched so many session recordings. You have your scrollers so straight to the bottom. And I do this, I don't know why, I just scroll straight to the bottom and I like and then I go straight to the bottom. So this full stop is for these people. And it's basically where you'll have like one panel, you'll have a headline, you'll have like your four to five, your three to five bullets and a call to action with a good image or something next to it. Why? It's basically doing a version of the above the fold at the bottom of the page, right? Because literally some people hit your page and then they just start, they just scroll to the bottom. So when you have that, you cater to all different types of users on.
[15:59]
B
A page, which is, I feel like with that you can then hone in on just those key aspects where it's like we know from the skimmers headlines, bullet points, those are gonna be the core areas of like focus scrollers. You know, there's an added weight now to that call of action at the very end kind of to it I mean every word or I don't know, maybe I'm a pessimistic, but I'd say there's not that many of them out there that read through absolutely everything. But by all means, if they do.
[16:36]
C
In boomer, in boomer markets there's a lot of them. When you, when you market to boomers, they're usually very good. And this is where it's like you got to understand how your market, they love reading everything. They'll read stuff where you're like on your website where you're like damn, I forgot that was on there. And then you're more analytical people maybe like SEO People like that more analytical mechanic. They read everything because they're highly skeptical. So you just have to spook easily, understand they trust no one. So yes, that's the differences.
[17:08]
B
Yeah, no, I think that makes sense. Well, in that same vein, would are. Do you feel like there's other parts of the page that maybe we've missed on that would also be like those kind of like high attention areas? So it's like not in the like entirety of the page, but just like other hotspots that's like. Yeah, that's also an area to double down on.
[17:32]
C
Yeah, the, the other section might be your FAQs. Just having those on their sales FAQs. Again, that's great for SEO as well because you can stuff your keywords in there, but also you want them to be like sales FAQs. But to recap, it's the above the fold, the lead social proof as frequently where it makes sense. Using social proof with intent and then having that five to seven reasons why, having the comparison table, having the FAQs, the other section that might be valuable to people because this page is our digital appointment set up is just having who are we a fit for? And you literally answer the question who are we a fit for? And then you, because you understand the market, you understand the three to five archetypes, stereotypes, avatars, whatever you might call it. And then you just literally call them out. The person who wants this, the person having a problem with this, the person, blah. And then I would usually have a video testimonial or an image or something of the person that matches that on the page as well.
[18:30]
B
That's a great point. And I guess for what it's worth on that, I'll speak for the SEO community. We don't need to keyword stuff anymore. We're past that. It was a weird, awkward phase, but now we're through it and yeah, now we're on to bigger and better things.
[18:49]
C
You've grown out of it. Yeah. And that's ultimately if you can get those sections right on a page. And I genuinely, truly from the bottom of my heart believe that what I'm teaching should be standardized for an SEO page. If you can nail this for your SEO templates and then make it work with whatever your SEO superpower is, whatever your campaigns will go off. And not only will you like, you'll be ranking because I'm sure you're all really good at that, but you'll be delivering true business outcomes, which is what we have to do. You'll be helping more people from the market to take action and you'll be delivering much better business outcomes.
[19:26]
B
And it's more and more the roles are blending over. So I think like SEOs need to know. Like to me it's like this ties into a larger conversation around more of like CRO work. And a good SEO today has to be proficient in influencing those elements because if you're not holding the user, if you're not, you know, sending them deeper into the website or converting them, that's also a signal to Google as far as whether or not you are satisfying the intent. So it's like if that is not yet a practice in your SEO strategy to work on these things, it definitely should be for the upcoming year.
[20:11]
C
Yeah, agreed.
[20:13]
B
But with that, that wraps up this episode of the Voice of Search podcast. Thanks again to Alicia Colonford from Persuasive Experience for joining us. If you'd like to get in touch with her, you can find a link to a LinkedIn profile in the Show Notes or going over to her company's.
[20:29]
A
Website@ persuasionexperience.com okay, thanks to Tyson Stockton, our guest host. If you'd like to get in touch with Tyson, you could find a link to his LinkedIn profile, our show notes. You can contact him on Twitter where his handle is TysonStockton. Or if your team is interested in SEO consulting or organizational education, you can always head to their company's website, which is Previsible IO that's P R E V I S I B L E I O. Just one more link in our show notes I'd like to tell you about. If you didn't have a chance to take notes while you were listening to this podcast, head over to voicesofsearch.com where we have summaries of all of our episodes and contact information for our guests. You can also subscribe to our weekly newsletter and you can even send us your top topic suggestions or your marketing questions, which we'll answer live on our show. Of course, you can always reach out on social media. Our handle is voicesofsearch on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or you can contact me directly. My handle is benjschapp B E N J S H A P and if you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of SEO and content marketing insights in your podcast feed. We're going to publish an episode every day during the work week, so hit that subscribe button in your podcast app and we'll be back in your feed tomorrow morning. Alright, that's it for today, but until next time. Remember, the answers are always in the data.