← Voices of Search // A Search Engine Optimization (SEO) & Content Marketing Podcast
Voices of Search // A Search Engine Optimization (SEO) & Content Marketing Podcast
Measuring SEO impact beyond rankings and traffic
00:39:08
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- [00:00]
A
The Voices of Search Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, IHeAreEverything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit iheareverything.com welcome to the Voices of Search Podcast and I Hear Everything Production. In this podcast, we'll share the news, knowledge and strategies you need to navigate the ever changing world of SEO, ready to expedite your company's organic growth efforts. Sit back, relax, and get ready for your daily dose of search engine optimization wisdom. Here's today's host of the Voices of Search podcast, Tyson Stockton.
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B
You've heard it a million times. By now, we've been going through one of the most transformative times in search. As a practitioner in search, there are three main areas that you need to be thinking about. One, how the landscape is changing and how the space that we're competing is evolving. But then also how you're positioning that internally in the organization. Given the critical mass of awareness that's going on within AI search. Although a lot is changing, that does not mean that you have to forget the basics and the fundamentals. Real value is still being gained from some of those basic fundamentals, and how we're positioning and talking about it does need to change within the organization. My name is tyson from Previsible I.O. and joining me today is Jade Pruitt, founder of hello SEO, a transparent, ROI driven agency helping small businesses turn both Google and AI search into measurable revenue. Today, Jade and I are going to be discussing why the fundamentals are still relevant within search. How AI is changing the way we look and measure the impact of SEO, and what it actually takes to drive results in the modern search era. Jade, welcome back to the podcast.
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C
Hey, thanks for having me back.
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B
It's been a little while, but always great to have kind of repeat guests and yeah, be able to catch up again with you.
- [02:04]
C
Yeah. And last time we talked, our entire conversation was about how we just shouldn't be afraid of AI. And I feel like it's been, it's been a year. We're in a totally different landscape now. I think we're past being afraid of it. We know what we're doing now and it's, it's like we get new, new information every single week.
- [02:23]
B
Agreed. Agreed. And I'm glad to hear, though, that you feel like some of the fears are dropping. I. I feel like I'm getting a. Still a mixed bag where you have some people that's like, oh, my God, the sky is still falling. Other people is like, more just acceptance into, like, this is the new norm. What do you think, like, the biggest kind of change, like, why do you think people are a bit more, I guess, accepting or maybe not as fearful as last time we talked?
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C
Yeah, I think around this time last year is when a few of, like, the first AI tracking products were really hitting the market and we were kind of like, oh, maybe we have a little bit of job security here. Because before those it was like, it's truly just a black box. Like, we don't know what's going in, we don't know what's coming out. Like, we have no clue. And at least it feels like every couple of months we're getting like, a new level of like, oh, there's something here that we can understand. And even, even if we don't know everything, like, we, we can kind of get a good grasp on what's going on now.
- [03:31]
B
Yeah. And I do feel like, too, it's like those, like, new tracking tools have been popping up, like, crazy, crazy lately. And it feels also like that's bringing a level of, like, energy into, like, the industry, which I think is both positive, like, people seeing that there is still, like, growth and business gains out there in this new, like, environment. So to me, I think that's been also just nice to see. Kind of like, yeah, almost like a revitalization going on in the industry.
- [04:05]
C
Totally, totally. I think we all know we have jobs if we want them.
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B
Agreed. And with that, though, so one of the first things we want to talk about is, like, fundamentals, because I think everyone does want to talk about what's new, what's changing, how this is a different SEO world than before. But it's like a good chunk is still the same world, the same game in a lot of ways that we've been playing. So, like, how do you think about kind of like those fundamental practices in the industry?
- [04:42]
C
Yeah, I think it's really fun to talk about AI and I think it's important to talk about how we can gain visibility in all of these new search engines that we have. And clearly it's like those are like, the sexy topics. And also it's what clients want to hear about. Like, everyone's like, well, what are you doing for AEO Geo? Like, whatever we're. We're calling it today. But it's like Google still has the massive majority of the, the market share. That's, that's going to be like a huge if we're doing SEO. Like, we can't just like, not think about Google. And it's really funny. I went to Mozcon, I think in like 2022, and everything was like the very, the basics of SEO like that just like refining your tactics. It's like Andy Crestedina did a whole hour on just like studying the SERPs and like really digging into these basic fundamentals. And now when you go to a conference, it's just like not everyone, but it feels like we're, we're all just wanting to be on the cutting edge and that's important. But also the fundamentals still are driving the majority of, of SEO, which.
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B
And you hit on something for me that I think I've been kind of like, I don't know about wrestling with, but kind of like playing with is the how you're positioning and framing it, because it is true. It's like there's such a broader awareness right now to search that if you're talking in the same way that we have before, even if it is still valuable items, it feels like it's not gaining the same, like, trust or like attention behind it. And for me it's like, and I've had conversations with like in house SEOs where it's like just discussing like, how we're positioning SEO within the organization or how to take advantage of some of that gained awareness that's going on, especially in the executive level. So it's like, how are you framing those, like, fundamentals and basics? That may not be the most exciting of topics to some people, given all like the kind of activity in the industry right now?
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C
Totally. There's been a lot of like, trial and error there as well, because everyone wants to be hearing about AI optimization. And so I've, I've accidentally run an entire webinar on what you should do to optimize for AI and just like failed to mention, like, by the way, you still need to do all of the other things too. And I think that's, that's kind of where the disconnect is. It's like, good, good AI optimization starts with good, just foundational SEO. And then there's kind of some things you can do on top of it. There's some extra layers you can, you can kind of add on some different nuances you can consider. But like, the foundation is still the foundation at the end of the day. But it is like you said, it is exciting that stakeholders are very invested in SEO right now because of everything they're hearing. So it's kind of like, how can we leverage that to get the buy in that we need? Even if the buy in is like, hey, we need to optimize our metadata, which is.
- [07:45]
B
Yeah, it's like, almost like there's like a FOMO on the executive level of like, oh, my God, we're falling behind. So then they want to hear about that new emerging, even if it is a smaller portion of, like, the business. And I found, like, if I'm talking to a fellow SEO, I'll probably spend more time talking about those things because it's like, great, yeah, you still have to manage the overall impact of the business. But then it's like, yeah, if it's an executive conversation, maybe it's a slightly different flavor where it's like, more on how those basics are going to set up for the other piece. I guess when you're starting with a new client, are you automatically first, let's hit the fundamentals and basics and then leveraging in or having that. Or are you trying to like, blend them both into the conversation?
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C
I, I kind of follow the client's lead, like in the sales conversation. Like, what are they most concerned about? I work with really small businesses and a lot of local businesses. And so typically question one is like, can we get people in the door? I don't really care where from. And then the next question is, are we going to do anything for AI search? Because I, I imagine when they're interviewing, like, a handful of SEOs, they're probably getting a mixed bag on. Like, are. Is that even a part of, like, doing the fundamentals of SEO? Do we even. Are we even paying attention to AI, which we certainly are. And there's no reason not to. There's no reason to not start tracking how all of that's working from the beginning as you're making those initial optimizations.
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B
And like, with that, is it, hey, this is gonna get you a seat at the table so you do have that opportunity. Or is it more kind of like how you've discussed it in the past of like, hey, this is why you have to do this, because of X, Y and Z. Like, how much, I guess into the. Why are you getting in those conversations?
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C
Yeah, again, it's kind of where they're coming from. Interestingly, a lot of clients reach out or potential leads reach out because they've gotten a lead from AI and they're like, oh, this is possible. How do I do this? More? So especially with those, it's like, okay, let's see where you're at now. If they're not showing up in AI search at all yet. Of course, it's just like, okay, how do we get you showing up? But oftentimes it's gauging expectations and that's kind of like industry specific as well. I work with a lot of therapists and they will see a good bit of traffic coming in from AI, typically, like if we can, if we can get them optimized correctly. But kind of gauging how that's going to matter versus their like Google SEO for lack of a better term. It's kind of important to just like let them know what we're, what we're working with.
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B
Yeah, and I think like for myself in the conversations too, it's like, I almost tend to frame it into like, like a hierarchy where it's like, hey, before we can even do the advanced items, like regardless, traditional search, AI search, it's still basing from an index. So you have like the fundamental of just indexation health. And then from that you have how are they understanding the content? And then it's like, yeah, okay, let's have a different content strategy for, you know, top of funnel versus transactional and etc. Etc. But I think like that indexation of like the seat of the table is always kind of just the first component of that and the other thing too, especially if it's like, you know, more of an executive that's like, wants to hear and has the FOMO side. It's like, I feel like you also have the opportunity to bring in, hey, this is also changing how we are doing some of the work where it's like, yeah, we've been updating the page titles and meta descriptions. We have more tools that we can use now as we're addressing those. Like, have you found yourself like changing your approach quite a bit on like how do I give page style recommendations or meta description optimizations? Like, how much are you seeing that the way that you're working is changing?
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C
Yeah, yeah. Meta descriptions is such an interesting one because I think when we talked last year it was like, oh, those matter again. I hadn't worried about, about optimizing a meta description in years, maybe my entire career. And then suddenly it's like, okay, they matter. So we kind of started with what are our best practices for meta descriptions? What have they like historically been? And now we're noticing a lot of those things actually don't matter. Character limit or like pixel limit doesn't seem to matter quite as much as it used to, which that one definitely offends clients Often if they're not getting their, like, little check boxes done correctly when they're checking on their own SEO, it's like, sorry about that. But yeah. And that's still obviously pretty experimental. It's like, what is the best way to write these? I have noticed at the moment as making them just as straightforward as possible. Like, this is exactly what this page is about. Seems to be moving the needle as much as possible for AI, but those are certainly things that they're changing. And especially with my clientele, it's like, how much do they want to know? How in the weeds should I get with, you know, why am I doing these certain things? And with. With an agency, I'm sure, you know, and like such a high volume of clients, it really comes down to who's asking the questions, which clients care. And then I'm happy to nerd out with them if they. If they want.
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B
Like, we spent a lot of time talking about stuff that's not as significant as it used to be because. Because there was kind of like, great. Google's understanding content more now, so then they don't need to rely on some of the legacy factors. But it does feel like there's like a resurgence to that. And it's almost like with the added tools and capabilities, the waterline is a lot higher. And so it's almost like, yeah, I may be thinking and doing other things a little bit more than I used to, but I wouldn't say that there's a ton that I'm like, dropping or being like, okay, I don't need to worry about that anymore.
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C
Right.
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B
So I also don't know if I could call out that many items that are just like, yeah, I was doing this five years ago and I wouldn't recommend doing it now. Maybe types of content have shifted and changed. And so it's like how I think about the type of content and like, what the purpose of that content is. I feel like is is shifted, but it's just more of like, a new flavor of doing it versus, like, not doing it anymore.
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C
Right. That makes a lot of sense, I would say. Also, site speed has, like, ebbed and flowed over the last 10 years. For me, that was incredibly important, and then it wasn't, and now it's like, seeming like that's kind of coming back around, especially for the LLMs. So that's another one that's circling back. Content is huge, and that's one that I kind of fall in and out of, like, enchantment with. I'm like, oh, content's amazing. Like, we need to double down on content. And then a couple months later I'll be like, do we really need to be prioritizing this? And again, it depends on who your clientele is and what exactly you're going after.
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B
We talked a little bit last time too, as far as, like, how we were, you know, measuring visibility or success with the shifts in the landscape. How. How are you now thinking about that, both in the sense of how you're communicating to clients or even like the expectations around, like, impact of SEO. Like, how's the performance kind of like reporting side changed for you?
- [15:46]
C
Yeah. And I feel like a part of this is me just becoming better at my job either either because I've just grown or because I've been forced to. But we just can't rely on many of the metrics that we used to rely on that maybe we should have never been relying on to begin with. Like, you know, impressions which, you know, if you compare those year over year for any site in search console are going to look interesting because of all the updates that have been made. Same with traffic. And traffic numbers are typically down across the board because people are showing up in different ways, which is not necessarily bad. And we're also dealing with big spikes in branded search, which clients often don't want because they're like, oh, well, that's not discovery SEO. And it's like, oh, there's like a thousand nuances there that we have to consider. And so I had a client just last week who was like, okay, if we're going to like, hang our hat on a metric that actually matters, like, which one is it? And I'm like, obviously it's people filling out your contact form on your website. Like, we have to look all the way down the funnel. And so being willing to have those conversations with clients and be as honest as you possibly can about what actually matters at the end of the day has been. I mean, it's nice, honestly. Like, it's, it's not a negative thing at all, but it's. I think it's a little different than how we, we used to approach these things.
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B
I completely agree. And I think, like, we've, we probably, like, as an industry leaned way too far into like, rank tracking and like pushing that. That. And it's like, in a lot of ways, it's like there were so many people in the industry pushing like rank tracking as like a measurement of success, which then it's like there was the challenge of reconditioning executives and other members of thinking about SEO as being different. And we were like, we didn't want to be viewed as the same as like a lot of the other channels and how they measure. And now I feel like there's a little bit of a like come, like swing back of like oh, maybe we are not that different in that regard. Where it's like, yeah, end of the day, your conversions, whether it's leads or sales or whatever kind of depending on the business model is going to be your ultimate true north star. Yes, traffic is still important. Is it going to be the same as before? Probably not. But you'd hope that you'd see increases in conversion rate with less traffic, so doing more with less kind of thing. And then I do think like, yeah, the impressions, like for me it's like it's different because of so much more activity happening in LLMs, AI mode, whatever kind of facet. But it's like to me that's kind of like more traditional like advertising where it's like before people would always just talk about like how many basically views you got, whether it's ads, radio, doesn't matter. Before we never had traffic or things like that from it, it was still just how many people are you reaching? And that's kind of like your impression area of how many people saw your name, saw your product, whatnot.
- [19:18]
A
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B
Yeah, you're going to get probably less to the site. Chances are buying cycle would be more compact or kind of like, you know, shorter in a lot of regards because of that early stage activity. And then into the day it's like, yeah, what is the business impact from it? But I think, yeah, I think we did a little bit of a disservice by putting so much of an emphasis on rank tracking. And then you had like, you know, years of being like, ah, people don't get it, people don't get it. And now it's like, now we're a little bit like, why are we talking about that being in position too? And there's a bunch of other stuff above it. So it's like it is you. Interesting how it's like it felt like we finally were getting people conditioned to one thing and now it's like, oh, just kidding, like we need to look somewhere else.
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C
Right, right. And that's where building trust with clients like really comes into play. Because I often have to help them unlearn like a dozen things that they think matter with SEO when we get on a call. And that's either going to go really well or they're going to go with the SEO that just speaks their language who may not end up getting them the better results. But like traffic's gonna go up or you know, whatever it is. But that's a part of a part of the work that AI probably can't replace for a while.
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B
Collectively the market will decide and yes, we can influence it and you know, some people are gonna have bigger voices in that than others, but it's like, yeah, ultimately it's like the industry and like the market will define what it is and, and it has been a little painful to kind of like, yeah, like adopt and use like GEO or whatever when you're like, like I don't know if I really like this and personally I'm like, I'm leaning more to wanting to just call it search discovery.
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C
Yeah.
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B
Because it's like the optimization like, yeah, you're not really optimizing and I think actually might just set it at an event like last week or something. It's like, yeah, we're not optimizing search engines, we're optimizing the websites to perform in search. So it's like to me it's all within the search umbrella where that's, that's where we play, regardless of the platform. If it's Perplexity Chat, GPT, Google doesn't matter. All of them are variations of search. And even if you're talking like app store, YouTube, it's like, that's all still variations of search. So I think, like, the platforms are really agnostic. It's more of like, the practice and the principle of, I don't know, the discipline.
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C
Totally, totally. I think Eli Schwartz also said that, like, the true Geo was Google Engine Optimization. Like, that's what we have been doing this whole time. And now we actually have like a diverse set of search engines to. To work on, which is how it always should have been. So it just depends on what you want to be excited about.
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B
Fair. Well, one other piece that I wanted to touch on before we kind of get to our, you know, lightning round questions is like one of the things that we've talked about off air as well as, like, you know, we even had a little bit of it kind of in like the intro when I was introducing you is like the transparency component. And in some of like, our side conversations we've talked about that, of how that's like part of your approach to how you support businesses and clients. How, how do you view that? Like, how, like, what do you do more tangibly to create that transparency with your clients and to have that type of engagements?
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C
Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. And it's something I've thought about a lot recently. When I got into SEO about 10 years ago, it felt like it was impossible to break into because I couldn't understand the basics. I was like, can someone just show me again how to optimize a meta title? Like, what that actually even means? And like the big podcast at the time. Oh, my gosh. I keep wanting to say voices of stuff. Search. It wasn't Voices of Search. I'll think of it in a second. Experts on the Wire. And I was like, I truly cannot understand a single word these people are saying. And I knew that that was translating to the business owners as well. It's like no one understands this. And I thought I was going to be super unique in being transparent. And then I really got into the industry and was like, every agency wants to be transparent. It's just a challenge. Like, it's, it's just like it's difficult because you're, you're like in two different worlds and you have to figure out kind of how to describe what you're doing to a business owner who has a totally different set of skills to you. And what I think what's really worked out the best for me is getting rid of the automated reports. Like, reporting is truly your job security. Like, if you can report well, you're going to keep your clients. And so I have started just pulling up loom and creating a loom video, showing them all of their metrics and explaining it. You know, my face is in the corner the whole time. And then being willing to hop on a call if that's what they need, as opposed to sending out one of those reports where they're just like, what is this? Or worse, they just ignore it. And then, you know, three months later they're like, well, I have no idea what you're doing, so. So I'm going to cut these costs, which is definitely a lesson I got to learn the hard way early on. And then just taking the time to explain these different little nuances along the way, especially if they're like a more curious client and they want to be involved in those things, just making the time for them goes a really long way.
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B
Well, and it's a good call out too, that it's like, maybe it's not necessarily even transparency, but it's more of like, understanding. And a lot of that comes down into, yeah, like, are you speaking the same language? And so I like your, yeah, your tactic with like the video because it's like by nature one, you're making it more personable because you have now like face like something that's not just a PDF or a looker dashboard. So it's like you have some area which is going to help build trust and then it's also going to give you more opportunity to create that understanding. Where I do think it's like, it's less about, oh, SEO is a black box. Because it's like, yeah, there are elements that we have to test and hypothesize. But it's like largely that's like all of academia, like most science based stuff is all in the same fashion. But I think it is more of a difference of like, how are we educating, communicating, like, are we speaking the same language and being able to also draw, like, comparisons. So it's something familiar with something new. Where I think like, again, and largely the industry's been like, oh, we're special, we're different, saying, all right, that's not necessarily helping us. If we want to make it more digestible, approachable and like, understandable to a broader audience. Where I think like, that's what really, like, we're trying to get at with transparency is like are we understood and are the actions understood in the same lens? Which should also have the performance gains to back that. But I think like yeah, for me it's largely like how well you can adapt to adapt your message to be heard and understood. Rather just saying we need to be transparent.
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C
Oh yeah, totally. And I feel like the amount of times I just have to say like I don't know or we don't know that that data doesn't exist is you know, increasing day by day and people are less afraid of that than I expected them to be or they're less offended. I was, I was so terrified to not know something for the first few years of my career and now I hardly know anything.
- [29:06]
B
Anything that you feel like maybe for other SEOs that have also felt that way, like anything that has made that easier for you, like is it just you've gone through the reps and so it's like more familiar or do you feel like there's been something else that's like given you that confidence?
- [29:24]
C
Probably just the reps, honestly, but and also figuring out it's like well we don't know this, but we do know this and we, or we can discover it this way. Like you know, search volume within LLMs is something like we, we truly do not have unless that's come out in the last 45 seconds. But we can track it other ways and we can see your traffic, we can see the people who are coming in from LLMs to an extent. That's another one you have to put a big nuance on and then we can see how they're behaving on the site to see what they probably came in from or why they're there in the first place. It hardly matters know how they got there. So just you know, taking the time again to, to have those conversations and kind of muddle through them until you figure it out.
- [30:13]
B
Fair. Now, one other question I have and you mentioned earlier, like therapy or therapist is like a segment, you know, that you have some clients and kind of worked in. And so I'm guessing there's a good chunk of kind of like regional or location specific businesses that like you're working with. And for like myself personally, I think I've spent more time working with like the national, global, kind of like enterprise where a lot of the conversation right now is also talking about like you know, micro Personas or like more personalization. So it's not just do you have that page for accounting software, but it's like whatever niche kind of like customer segments and then content specifically to them. Are you seeing in your kind of like day to day with clients that you're. The content is more personalized and it's going down that path? Or would you say it's like, maybe not as much because you have like, you know, on a regional scale, you're going to have less competition for some of those kind of queries or prompts. Like, how much are you seeing just like that change in personalization in like the type of content that you're recommending?
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C
That's a great question. And with local businesses especially, like, content is one of the things that we worry less about, I guess from like a, like a blogging perspective. Like, we want to have the right pages built out for the queries they're going for. But I see like kind of top of funnel blogs being less and less valuable, at least in my experience. But it is, it is interesting because on like a local level, especially for therapists, it's like we're going after, you know, EMDR therapy versus couples therapy, like kind of basic keywords. But what's really curious is when those get into AI search, it's clear that we are connecting with clientele that is incredibly qualified. Like, that they're being served up to exactly who needs them in a way that we couldn't just like blatantly put out on a website. And so it is cool. Like the personalization is getting, is getting picked up on the AI side.
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B
Interesting. And that's a, I don't know, it's always like local is always a slightly different flavor to it, but it's like, I feel like more and more that's going to be a common piece of conversation. And I would assume too, it's like our capability to do that is going to be greater given the advances and kind of like what tools we have at our disposal. All right, Jaden, we're going to move on to the lightning round. And so in this section, I'm going to throw five different kind of shorter
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C
form
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B
questions at you. And with that, if you're ready, we'll jump right into it.
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C
Cool, Sounds good.
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B
All right, so first question. What's one SEO tactic people should stop overcomplicating?
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C
Probably meta descriptions and meta titles. I think if you're kind of stuck in, they need to be these certain character limits and they need to follow the certain format that, you know, might have been coined 10 years ago. It might be time to rethink and experiment with your tactics a little bit.
- [33:51]
B
Absolutely. It's like, keep it simple, keep it straightforward, you'll be all right. I think for me, one that I would say overcomplicating is reporting. Like, that has been just such a black, not black box and like what we were talking about earlier, but it's just like so much time gets spent on it and it's like most of the time it's like, I'd rather see that same amount of energy go into getting things live on the site and actually like making the change rather than just talking about what is going on. Because it's like, yes, that's important. But so much time is wasted and lost into just discussing about reporting rather than actually putting it into action where most of the value is really realized. Next one. What is the most overrated SEO tactic right now?
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C
I think LLM's text is getting a weird amount of attention for something that may or may not be real.
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B
That is a good one. Yes, please, please stop discussing LLMs.txt.
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C
yeah, yeah, I went to a conference in December and I was like, my one goal is to understand LLM's text and then it was not mentioned a single time, which maybe was for the best.
- [35:17]
B
Yeah, I think it's like, it sounds good in theory, but then when it's like you're realizing that they're not really being looked at and it's like, yeah, they're just not being used, it's like, okay, until we have other evidence, let's just put that one to bed. I don't think it's really a needed item, but maybe that changes down the line. But yeah, I would agree with you. And I think that one can be one that's just put to bed until. Until something changes. Next question. What is one thing about modern search engines that you appreciate the most?
- [35:55]
C
So I think that our modern search engines are adding a level of personalization we didn't see before. Again, like I said, I work with a lot of therapists and we're seeing them. The leads that they get from AI, it's less than they get from Google, but they are like the most qualified, ready to go leads you've ever seen. And I think a part of that is they're building trust with the LLMs beforehand, so when they get that recommendation, they are ready to book. But also the LLMs know them so much better than like a traditional Google search ever would. And so they're making a better recommendation. It's coming in with a level of trust and it's really, you know, connecting the client to the right business.
- [36:41]
B
And I Think with that too. It's like we're hearing that yeah like buying cycles are shortening and it is because I think so much more of this activity is happening, whether it's in AI mode, ChatGPT, Perplexity, whatever else. So I also do appreciate that like personalization piece and it is true like so many people especially right now are talking about how terrible it is that they're losing traffic and Google is absorbing everything. Doesn't necessarily have to mean that there's less business impact potential. But it does bring us back to that KPI one on the KPI piece, what is one SEO KPI that you trust and what's one SEO KPI that you do not trust?
- [37:30]
C
Conversions that we can directly attribute to organic traffic. Love that one, that's the best. And then one that I don't particularly trust. Traffic, traffic that is sourced from LLMs, very questionable. And then just organic traffic in general that does not need as much attention as we, as we give it.
- [37:53]
B
True. And I think for me I would say yeah, like the KPI trust the most is going to be typically internal data. Whether it's sales or, or like order something like very hard and tangible. Maybe one that I trust the least is gonna be like search volume. That one I feel like has been a dirty, dirty KPI for a little while now. And it is crazy too how like no one really questions it where it's like such an important factor in a lot of the tools like visibility, like metrics and things like that. But it's like that is a very non precise KPI in my mind that no one really seems to want to question or care to question.
- [38:43]
C
I don't think I've ever heard anyone question that one and it hurts my feelings but it's, it's so true. Yeah, it's messy.
- [38:50]
B
Yeah. And it's like, and I mean I feel like it used to be a bit more, have a little more integrity to it but just with so many like blind spots now and especially now with like the level of personalization that's going on and that we're going to continue seeing because it's like the longer now with prompts being longer, it's like that's just going to increase the variance of it. So I think that one's like quite interesting too when people are looking at like what is the performance in those early stages, whether it's impressions otherwise, but I think that's one that I constantly am questioning. Last question for you. If you had to start SEO from scratch today, what is the first thing that you would do.
- [39:39]
C
Oh man. I think I would start with technical SEO as opposed to on page, which is where I did start. Because like you were just saying, like keywords and post, putting them places is going to maybe do something for you. But like making sure that you know the site has a seat at the table and can be seen and is like, is crawlable will go a much, a much longer way if you're going to prioritize one thing.
- [40:07]
B
All right, so that's going to wrap up this episode of the Voice of Search podcast. Thanks again to Jade, founder of hello SEO, for joining us. If you'd like to contact Jade, you can find a link to her LinkedIn profile in the show notes, or you can go on over and check out her company's website at. Hello SEO.com if you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of SEO and content marketing knowledge in your podcast feed or on YouTube, go ahead and hit that subscribe button in your podcast app or on YouTube and we'll be back in your feed in the following day. That's all for today. Thanks for stopping by and we will see you in the next next episode.