Optimize for AI or Traditional Search?

Summary

Voices of Search Podcast

Episode: Optimize for AI or Traditional Search?
Release Date: June 26, 2025
Host: Tyson Stockton
Guest: Tyler Einberger
Network: I Hear Everything Podcast Network

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Introduction

In this episode of Voices of Search, host Tyson Stockton engages in a thought-provoking discussion with SEO and content marketing expert Tyler Einberger. The conversation centers around the evolving landscape of search optimization, specifically debating whether businesses should prioritize optimization for Artificial Intelligence (AI) or traditional search engines. The dialogue delves into the interplay between foundational SEO practices and emerging trends driven by AI advancements.

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Optimizing for AI vs. Traditional Search

Tyler Einberger initiates the conversation with a pivotal question: "Would you optimize for AI or traditional search?" (00:44). The guest challenges the notion of choosing between the two, asserting that optimization strategies for AI and traditional search are not mutually exclusive.

Key Points:

• Unified Optimization Practices: Fundamental SEO techniques such as technical hygiene, brand mentions, backlinks, and topic clustering are effective for both AI and traditional search platforms.

  "I actually don't think this is mutually exclusive... these things work everywhere." (00:50)

• Interconnected Benefits: Enhancing visibility for AI-driven platforms inherently boosts visibility for human users as well, creating a synergistic effect.

  "What helps the LLMs or agents or any other bot cite you, that probably helps humans find you too." (00:57)

• Evolving Landscape: While there are minor differences in optimization strategies, the overall approach remains cohesive, adapting as technology evolves.

  "It's an evolving thing too. And I could be totally wrong about this." (01:05)

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Shifting Priorities and Strategy Adjustments

Tyler probes further into whether the rise of AI necessitates a shift in SEO priorities and strategies.

Key Points:

• Incorporating AI-Specific Optimization: Businesses are starting to factor in AI-centric strategies, such as optimizing for large language models (LLMs) and conversational agents.

  "We're starting to include this type of thinking specific to optimizing for LLMs or even better yet, thinking about the future beyond that." (02:10)

• Technical SEO Adjustments: An example provided is elevating client-side rendering to server-side rendering to accommodate AI-driven search that doesn't process JavaScript.

  "This makes me elevate client side rendering on a website to a higher priority for an engineering team to switch to server side rendering." (02:20)

• Business Prioritization: Aligning technical SEO changes with business priorities ensures that optimization efforts are strategically beneficial.

  "If that's a priority for the business, I like it." (02:35)

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Emerging Competitors and Indexing Methods

The discussion shifts to how competitors like ChatGPT and Perplexity are developing their own indexing mechanisms, influencing SEO strategies.

Key Points:

• Unique Indexing Systems: As AI platforms develop proprietary indexes, the differentiation in data collection and indexing becomes more pronounced.

  "ChatGPT is using Bing's index. Perplexity. They have their own." (03:26)

• Impact on SEO Focus: The uniqueness of each AI's indexing approach may drive shifts in how SEO efforts are directed, emphasizing the need for adaptive strategies.

  "We're gonna see even more shifts in how you would, you know, focus." (03:40)

• Fundamentals Remain Valuable: Despite these changes, core SEO fundamentals continue to hold significant value, serving as the foundation upon which new strategies are built.

  "A lot of the fundamentals that we've been using are still in play and still valuable." (04:00)

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Measurement Challenges in AI Optimization

Tyler and his guest address the current limitations in measuring SEO effectiveness within AI contexts.

Key Points:

• Lagging Measurement Tools: Existing tools struggle to accurately track visibility and usage within AI-driven search environments.

  "Measurement's so far behind. The tools are obviously behind." (04:26)

• Manual Data Collection: Without automated tools, SEO professionals may need to resort to labor-intensive methods to estimate AI-driven traffic sources and user interactions.

  "It's a ton of work and still not representative actual usage." (05:00)

• Risk of Data Gaps: The absence of comprehensive data from AI interactions poses significant risks for businesses relying solely on traditional SEO metrics.

  "We don't get data from LLMs on usage, which is a big risk right now, 100%." (05:10)

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Future Paradigms in SEO Reporting and Tracking

Concluding the discussion, Tyler emphasizes the need for a paradigm shift in SEO reporting and tracking to keep pace with AI advancements.

Key Points:

• Beyond Traditional Metrics: The standard metrics like ranking positions may become less relevant in an AI-dominated search landscape.

  "Reporting of ranking positions... just doesn't change your tactics." (05:31)

• Focus on Tactical Adaptation: The spotlight should shift towards how SEO tactics are evolving, rather than solely on where sites rank in search results.

  "That's where the focus needs to be because that's where you're going to see a change." (05:45)

• Adaptation for Competitive Edge: Understanding and adapting to the rapidly evolving specifics of AI-driven search can provide a competitive advantage.

  "Seems to be evolving quicker than the actual tactics of website implementation." (04:10)

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Tyson Stockton expressing gratitude to Tyler Einberger for his insightful contributions. Listeners are encouraged to connect with Tyler through his LinkedIn profile or visit his company's website at momenticmarketing.com. Additionally, opportunities to engage with the local Milwaukee Digital Marketing Club are highlighted for those in the area.

Final Thoughts: The conversation underscores the intricate balance between maintaining robust traditional SEO practices while integrating and adapting to AI-driven search mechanisms. As the landscape continues to evolve, SEO professionals must remain agile, leveraging both foundational and innovative strategies to sustain and enhance their organic growth efforts.

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Notable Quotes

• "I actually don't think this is mutually exclusive... these things work everywhere." — Unnamed Guest (00:50)

• "We're starting to include this type of thinking specific to optimizing for LLMs or even better yet, thinking about the future beyond that." — Unnamed Guest (02:10)

• "We don't get data from LLMs on usage, which is a big risk right now, 100%." — Unnamed Guest (05:10)

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Additional Resources

• LinkedIn Profile of Tyler Einberger: LinkedIn
• Momantic Marketing Website: momenticmarketing.com
• Milwaukee Digital Marketing Club: Join Here

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Stay tuned for more insights and strategies in upcoming episodes of Voices of Search. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on your preferred platform to receive daily updates on SEO and content marketing.

Transcript

[Tyson Stockton]

The Voices of Search Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit iheareverything.com welcome to the Voices of Search Podcast. A member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network, ready to expedite your company's organic growth efforts. Sit back, relax, and get ready for your daily dose of search engine optimization wisdom. Here's today's host of the Voices of Search Podcast, Tyson Stockton Casa if you.

[Tyler Einberger]

Had to choose, would you optimize for AI or traditional search?

[Unnamed Guest]

So I actually don't think this is mutually exclusive. Technical hygiene, brand mentions, backlinks, chunking, micro passages, you know, whatever, a query fan out, or topics or topic clustering. I think that these things work everywhere. So what I think the I don't think we can choose one or the other. I think what helps, you know, the LLMs or agents or any other bot cite you, that probably helps humans find you too. So I don't think there's a huge difference between the two. There are minor differences that we're seeing and I think it's an evolving thing too. And I could be totally wrong about this.

[Tyler Einberger]

Have you found yourself which I guess for the record, I totally agree with that because it's like you have a lot of fundamental technologies that have been in use for a while and it's more of that last kind of interaction point. But have you found yourself shifting priorities as far as like you go through, you identify 100 items that could be improved, are you shifting focus or priorities of how you'd weight certain factors? Like is that maybe a simpler way of asking are you shifting strategy more.

[Unnamed Guest]

From this, I would say yes and no. So the yes piece is we're starting to include this type of thinking specific to optimizing for LLMs or even better yet, thinking about the future beyond that, which is optimizing for agents or machines. So what pieces need to be in place for that to be something that we would be considered as a good source for in the future. So I mean like a really concrete example would be, hey, this is something that makes me elevate client side rendering on a website to a higher priority for an engineering team to switch to server side rendering. Because LLMs and conversational search outside of Gemini or Google don't render JavaScript. So if that's part of our, you know, if our audience is on using LLMs and we think they're using LLMs to find our product or service or comps, then that's definitely a technical SEO item that I would normally have as a medium high or high to a very high. If that's a priority for the business, I like it.

[Tyler Einberger]

I'm particularly interested too in as these other competitors start adding, crawling and indexing independently. So it's like ChatGPT is using Bing's index. Perplexity. Okay. You know, they have their own. But I feel like that's going to be interesting of once the almost like collection becomes more unique or differentiated, then I feel like we're going to see even more shifts in how you would, you know, focus. But I'm with you on this one where it's like a lot of the fundamentals that we've been using are still in play and still valuable. It's more of where and how you want to compete. For me that it's like evolving quickly is the preciseness of where you want to put your efforts. Seems to be evolving quicker than the actual tactics of website implementation.

[Unnamed Guest]

Yeah, and measurement. So I think measurement's so far behind. The tools are obviously behind. There's a ton of tools popping up for track your visibility in the LLMs, but it's missing such a key piece, all of those tools, which is actual usage of the LLM for the topics that are tracked there. So I think that's a key missing piece right now and that's something that I'm weary about. But there's also not a better method unless you want to manually build a list of. Here's all the URLs on my website that get traffic from LLMs that I know that aren't hidden, indirect or dark. And then try to reverse engineer likely topics that drove people to these URLs and then build out likely questions from that. That is a ton of work and still not representative actual usage. So we don't get data from LLMs on usage, which is a big risk right now, 100%.

[Tyler Einberger]

And it's like we could probably do a whole nother thing on just like reporting and tracking, but I feel like we need to take a completely different paradigm shift because it's like reporting of ranking positions, even share voice in a lot of ways to me. Feels like there's use cases from the competitor standpoint, but it's not, it's limited of how much it's going to change your acts in your like tactics, which is like the end of the day that's where the focus needs to be because that's where you're going to see a change. Just looking at her in position 10 or position 5 is like, I don't know. Yeah, I could go on on that one for a minute. Same well, that's going to wrap up this episode of the podcast. Thanks again to Tyler Einberger for joining us and I feel like I could have continued this conversation much longer, but I've kept Tyler a little bit too long. If you'd like to get in touch with Tyler, you can find a link to his LinkedIn profile in the show notes or go on over and check out his company's website@momentic marketing.com also be sure to check out the kind of local meetup group in Milwaukee, Milwaukee's Digital Marketing Marketing Club. We're gonna be doing some stuff with them in the near future, so if you are in the area, be sure to check them out. And if you haven't subscribed yet and would like a daily stream of SEO and content marketing knowledge in your podcast feed, hit that subscribe button in your podcast app or on YouTube and we'll be back in your feed in the next following day. And that is all for today. Thanks for stopping by the Voice of Search and we will see you in the next episode. Sam.