Podcast Summary: SEO Forecasting Made Simple

Podcast: Voices of Search
Host: Jordan Cooney
Guest: Lindsey Nelson, VP of SEO at Symphonic Digital
Date: October 20, 2025

Overview

This episode delves into the seismic shifts shaping SEO in an era dominated by zero-click results and AI-driven search experiences. Host Jordan Cooney discusses with Lindsey Nelson of Symphonic Digital how traditional SEO success metrics are being upended, why communicating value to executives is more critical than ever, and Lindsey's actionable framework for modern SEO forecasting and measurement. Listeners gain a candid look at real-world agency challenges, practical new metrics, the growing (and misunderstood) impact of large language models (LLMs), and the evolving relationship between human expertise and AI tools.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Impact of Zero-Click Search and AI on SEO

• Major Shift in Search Behavior

  • “80% of consumers now rely on zero click results in at least 40% of their searches, reducing organic web traffic by an estimated 15 to 25%.” (B, 00:43)
  • Traditional metrics like impressions and clicks are fast becoming obsolete; traffic can drop even as visibility climbs.

• The Communication Challenge

  • SEO pros must explain falling traffic while leads remain steady or increase.
  • “The challenge isn't just measurement, it's communication. How do you forecast success when the fundamental relationship between visibility and traffic has been severed?” (B, 01:36)

Lindsey’s Background & Symphonic Digital’s Role

• Journey into SEO (C, 02:48)

  • Not formally trained in SEO; learned hands-on, advocating "learn by fire."
  • Specializes in B2B lead gen and has built out Symphonic’s SEO division, focusing on tying organic growth directly to business results.

• SEO Investment Trends

  • “I see more investment in SEO than media at this point in history… It's investing into the future and into something that is much more tangible and measurable…” (C, 04:32)

Communicating SEO Value to Executives

• Focus on Business Outcomes, Not Vanity Metrics (C, 05:47)
  • Executives care about revenue and growth, not just impressions or traffic.
  • Integrate SEO reporting with core business systems (Shopify, HubSpot, Salesforce) to demonstrate ROI—“If we are consistently showing return on investment, it's an easy yes. It's hard to say no when we are making them more money at a fraction of the cost…” (C, 06:37)
  • Stay adaptable: Executive priorities can change rapidly, so SEOs must “listen and ask questions” about evolving business goals.

Forecasting SEO in Uncertain Times

• Honest Conversations About Forecasting Limitations (C, 08:29)

  • “It's hard, honestly. And I think it's okay for us to admit that to our clients... I don't think anybody has the perfect answer.”
  • Example: Had to tell a client an impressions target was unrealistic due to market changes, not performance failures.

• Shift Toward First-Party Data

  • Rely less on external analytics (GA4, etc.) due to data degradation; instead, focus on internal pipeline and revenue metrics.

Navigating the AI and LLM Hype

• Balancing Fundamentals With Hype

  • Many executives demand “AI strategies,” but actual traffic from AI chatbots is low.
  • “We have to explain the things that matter… educating on none of these tools have reporting right now.” (C, 11:45)
  • Important to clarify the speculative and unproven nature of many AI metrics.

• Fundamental Changes in Search Behavior

  • People are moving away from keyword-based queries toward natural language and conversation.
  • “We're talking like humans instead of how Google has trained us to where it's query modifier, bigger modifier, long form. It's just not that way anymore.” (C, 13:44)

Leveraging LLMs in Practice

• Two Sides of LLM Usage (C, 15:50)

  • For Clients: Focused on ensuring strong SEO best practices which naturally align with AI optimization.
  • For Agencies: LLMs as workflow enhancers, not just for speed, but to make teams “smarter.” Built custom GPT agents tailored to client brands, including tools for localization sensitive to cultural nuances.

• *“We have to train these tools and it's so fun… These are things we can do and do better, better and service to our clients that we've never been able to do before.” (C, 17:44)

Ensuring AI Output Quality (Human in the Loop)

• Human Validation Remains Critical
  • "We also have native speakers on staff... can you at least spend 15 minutes just validating that this is accurate?”
  • AI output can “hallucinate” or make mistakes; all outputs checked for relevance and correctness before client delivery.

Education and Guardrails in AI Adoption

• Internal and External Education (C, 21:47)

  • Foster a culture of experimentation and learning internally: “Really built a culture of the ability to fail… you have an idea, let's try it.”
  • Do not assign team members to full billable hours—reserve time for R&D and knowledge sharing.

• Guardrails for Clients and Teams

  • Some clients want everything AI; others are wary. Important to balance education, compliance, and competitive urgency.
  • Clear policies: no uploading sensitive data to public AI tools; protect privacy and compliance.

Metrics and Signals to Watch

• From Impressions to Visibility to Revenue
  • Move away from just impressions/clicks to visibility tracking, competitive comparisons, and lead/revenue outcomes.
  • Uses SEOmonitor for daily keyword/visibility tracking. “Tracking against competitors is absolute critical… No leader is upset when we're beating their biggest competitor.” (C, 27:06)
  • Early indicators guide strategy adjustment, with business outcomes tracked over longer time horizons.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Death of SEO:

  • “It's always dying. I think that's just kind of the trope that we hear.” (C, 04:32)

• On Executive Communication:

  • “We need to look at all of it. Are we in Shopify? Are we integrating HubSpot Salesforce data into our Looker Studio reports? We have to have full scale reporting tied into SEO so that we can show that monetary value.” (C, 06:14)

• On LLM Output and Human Review:

  • “It's really easy to just rely on what AI comes out or pumps out to us, but it's still not that smart... As much as we can use it, and we should use it, we have to have validation, human voice in all of these pieces, or else we're going to get stuck in kind of mediocrity.” (C, 19:17)

• On Internal Education:

  • “Really built a culture of the ability to fail in this space. Like, hey, you have an idea, let's try it… We learned what didn't work, now let's move on.” (C, 21:55)

• On Competitive Benchmarks:

  • “No leader is upset when we're beating their biggest competitor… that is something that nobody's going to be upset about and we need to lean into.” (C, 27:06)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Zero-Click Search explainer: 00:43–02:30
• Lindsey’s background and agency context: 02:39–04:55
• Communicating with executives: 05:47–07:46
• Challenges of forecasting and reporting: 08:29–10:33
• Managing AI and LLM buzz vs. fundamentals: 11:45–14:52
• Practical use of LLMs in SEO workflows: 15:50–18:25
• Measuring quality in AI outputs: 18:25–20:44
• AI education and governance: 21:47–25:31
• Modern visibility and success metrics: 26:41–28:25

Conclusion

This candid and timely conversation provides both strategic and tactical insights for SEOs grappling with the new realities of AI-powered search, zero-click results, and shifting client expectations. Getting buy-in now means tying SEO efforts to tangible business outcomes, investing in cross-functional data integration and reporting, being transparent about limitations, embracing experimentation, and evolving education for all stakeholders. As the boundaries of search continue to blur, the fundamental combination of human expertise and smart, validated AI adoption will define tomorrow’s SEO success.