Voices of Search Podcast Summary

Title: Voices of Search // A Search Engine Optimization (SEO) & Content Marketing Podcast
Host: Tyson Stockton
Guest: Tyler Einberger, Co-Founder and Head of Growth at Momentiq
Episode Topic: SEO in the Age of Generative AI/LLMs and the Lack of Performance Data for SEO Professionals
Release Date: June 23, 2025

Introduction to the Changing SEO Landscape

Tyson Stockton opens the episode by highlighting a significant shift in the SEO landscape: "Search is no longer just about Google" (00:43). He emphasizes the rising influence of Generative AI tools like ChatGPT in redefining information retrieval and SEO practices. Backed by data from the "Momentix 2025 State of SEO Google vs ChatGPT report," Stockton notes that "ChatGPT users are now 2.3 times more likely to click through to external websites than Google users" (00:43). This statistic underscores the rapid evolution of user behavior and the necessity for SEO professionals to adapt their strategies accordingly.

Exploring the Momentiq Study

The conversation transitions to the study conducted by Tyler Einberger and his team at Momentiq. Einberger clarifies the nature of the report, stating, "I wanted to get to the bottom of that question" regarding the perceived decline in SEO's attractiveness amid growing narratives like "Google search is dying or ChatGPT is taking over" (02:30). His research aimed to map out web spaces where marketers can effectively market, ensuring these spaces are both acceptable to the audience and measurable through clickstream data.

Methodology and Data Sources

Einberger delves into the methodology, explaining the focus on U.S. web users from February 2024 to March 2025, with updates to include April and May data (05:52). The primary data source was SimilarWeb's opt-in clickstream panel, supplemented by ISP-provided data. He emphasizes the importance of deduplication to ensure accurate user counts across multiple devices, noting that "similar web is doing some good stuff there to try to give us more representative data" (05:52). A critical aspect of the study was the exclusion of self-referrals, particularly prevalent within ChatGPT's URL structures, which comprised over 20% of clicks (07:00).

Key Findings: Google vs. ChatGPT

One of the standout revelations from the study is ChatGPT's superior ability to drive external website clicks compared to Google. Einberger reveals, "ChatGPT is 2.3 times better at sending out people to other websites than Google" (09:28). This was particularly surprising given Google's primary revenue model relies heavily on directing traffic to external sites. However, Stockton and Einberger discuss the limitations of the data, especially the underrepresentation of mobile app traffic, which significantly impacts the accuracy of ChatGPT's click-through rates. Einberger acknowledges, "if we're just considering website traffic that comes from the open web or a browser based measurable, then we're leaving out a huge chunk of the picture" (10:19).

Implications of App-Based Usage

The study highlights a substantial discrepancy in reported usage between desktop and mobile platforms for ChatGPT. Einberger points out, "according to similar web clickstream, 82% of ChatGPT users are on desktop. There's no way that's correct" (14:31). This suggests a significant portion of ChatGPT's activity occurs within mobile apps, which aren't fully captured in traditional clickstream data. Consequently, the actual influence of ChatGPT on driving traffic may be even more pronounced than the study indicates.

User Behavior and Engagement Trends

Delving deeper into user engagement, Einberger notes that Google's user engagement has intensified, with "users are now clicking on average over 10 times across devices. Over 10 times per visit" (16:47), a sharp increase from under eight clicks two years prior. This uptick indicates that while Google maintains a larger audience base, user interactions within the platform are becoming more frequent and potentially more intricate.

Growth Drivers and Future Projections

The conversation turns to the factors driving ChatGPT's growth. Einberger attributes the surge to feature launches like "SearchGPT," which have significantly boosted click-through rates independent of user base growth. He states, "ChatGPT is growing at a really high rate. I think it's over 80% in users year over year" (17:50). Additionally, repeat usage is high, with many users returning multiple times within the reporting period, indicating strong engagement and dependency on the platform.

Broader Ecosystem and Competitive Landscape

Stockton inquires about the inclusion of other Large Language Models (LLMs) like Perplexity and Claude in future reports. Einberger confirms that data on these platforms exists but has not yet been released, noting that "overlapped users totally exist" and that "if you're using ChatGPT, you're really likely to be using other LLMs too" (20:42). He highlights that while platforms like Bing Search are struggling, their decline correlates with the rise of ChatGPT and related tools, emphasizing the dynamic and competitive nature of the current search ecosystem.

Personal Insights on LLM Preferences

When asked about his preference for Claude over other LLMs, Einberger shares, "it feels more human to me... I find that the output and quality seems to be higher" (23:40). He appreciates Claude's ability to produce more refined and less "yes-man" like responses, which reduces the need for post-editing. This preference underscores the importance of user experience and output quality in the adoption and longevity of LLM platforms.

Conclusion and Future Directions

As the episode wraps up, Stockton and Einberger touch upon the diminishing "influenceable web," declining by 3 to 4% annually in measurable audiences (21:04). This trend suggests a shift towards app-based interactions and the necessity for marketers to pivot their strategies accordingly. Einberger remains optimistic about the continuous evolution of LLMs and their integral role in shaping future SEO and content marketing practices.

Notable Quotes

• Tyson Stockton (00:43): "Search is no longer just about Google."
• Tyler Einberger (02:30): "We needed to get to the bottom of whether SEO is losing its luster amid doomsday narratives."
• Tyler Einberger (09:28): "ChatGPT is 2.3 times better at sending out people to other websites than Google."
• Tyler Einberger (14:31): "According to SimilarWeb clickstream, 82% of ChatGPT users are on desktop. There's no way that's correct."
• Tyler Einberger (16:47): "Users are now clicking on average over 10 times across devices. Over 10 times per visit."
• Tyler Einberger (23:40): "When I'm interacting with Claude, it feels less like a yes man and more like a helpful person."

Key Takeaways

1. Shift in Search Behavior: Generative AI tools like ChatGPT are significantly influencing how users interact with search engines, surpassing traditional platforms like Google in driving external website traffic.

2. Data Limitations: Traditional clickstream data may underrepresent app-based usage, especially for mobile platforms, leading to potential inaccuracies in understanding user behavior.

3. Increasing Engagement: Google's user engagement per session is on the rise, indicating deeper interactions within the platform despite a broader audience for ChatGPT.

4. Growth Drivers: Feature enhancements and continuous user base expansion are key factors fueling the growth of LLM platforms like ChatGPT.

5. Future of SEO: With the "influenceable web" shrinking and app-based interactions growing, SEO professionals must adapt by diversifying their marketing strategies beyond traditional web-based channels.

6. User Overlap: There is a high overlap between users of ChatGPT and other LLMs, as well as with Google Search, emphasizing the interconnectedness of modern search and information retrieval tools.

For more insights and detailed analysis, tune into the Voices of Search Podcast and stay updated on the latest trends in SEO and content marketing.