← Voices of Search // A Search Engine Optimization (SEO) & Content Marketing Podcast
Voices of Search // A Search Engine Optimization (SEO) & Content Marketing Podcast
SEO Jobs Week - What are the trending roles & titles
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- [00:00]
Nick Leroy
The Voices of Search Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast. I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice. Then visit iheareverything.com welcome to the Voices of Search Podcast. A member of the I Hear Everything Podcast network, ready to expedite your company's organic growth efforts. Sit back, relax, and get ready for your daily dose of search engine optimization wisdom. Here's today's host of the Voices of Search podcast, Tyson Stockton.
- [00:43]
Tyson Stockton
Hey, what's going on? This is Tyson from Previsible I.O. and joining me this week is Nick Leroy from Seojobs.com and as mentioned yesterday, we are breaking down a different section or component of our recent and 2025 SEO job study and we're talking all things SEO jobs. Goal of the week is to give SEOs out there or hiring managers out there some additional kind of context and information to help navigate the industry, be know what you'd be looking for if you're on the hiring manager side. And for those that are, you know, seeking that next role or to progress their career, hopefully this can be some information that they can use to kind of navigate these waters. So, Nick, welcome back. How you doing?
- [01:33]
Nick Leroy
I'm doing good. You know what, I'll give everybody a spoiler right now. SEO is still not dead yet.
- [01:41]
Tyson Stockton
Hey, but we have to have that conversation, like every couple years. I feel we do. It's like, you know, you got to bring back that Simpsons gif of the tombstone and, you know, write whatever it is on it. But it's like every few years it's the conversation.
- [01:55]
Nick Leroy
Absolutely. But no, overall, life is good on my end. Very excited to be publishing this post and continuing to work with you guys.
- [02:04]
Tyson Stockton
And I mean, yesterday I feel like we were more of like setting the stage. I think both of us were kind of stressing the importance of nuance and context in looking at this information, but today we wanted to really dive into the titles. And so like, this is, you know, not necessarily what's going to give all of the information around kind of like a position, but I think it is a strong cue to being like the level of the role. And so as far as like where we're looking to either progress or kind of like how we want to evolve as SEOs, I feel like this is one of the key aspects that gives us a little bit of line of sight into how the market is responding overall.
- [02:55]
Nick Leroy
Yeah. And I'll Just say too, like, as we talk more about this, the titles for SEO probably matter more in this industry than any other industry, because there are people who just assume, and in my opinion, rightfully so. An SEO strategist is a role somewhere kind of in the middle of the hierarchy. And I've seen some jobs that have $150,000 salary and they're referring to them as SEO analysts. So getting it right is really important.
- [03:27]
Tyson Stockton
Yeah, I've been kind of banging that drum even internally that being precise in language has so much implication as far as the shared understanding of this. And within the job study that we did, there is a crazy amount of variety in roles. Like there's not a crazy amount of variety in SEO jobs, which I'm a firm believer in that. But the titles that people use are very, very creative.
- [03:57]
Nick Leroy
Tyson, you're an SEO ninja, right?
- [03:59]
Tyson Stockton
It's. You can throw ninja in there, evangelists, like all of the above. That's 100%. And it's like you have like, I think the, and I'm looking at the list here, it's like you have some kind of like minor differences, like director of SEO versus SEO director. Right? Two different titles. Obviously it's meaning the same thing. But then you have like, you know, shared pieces of SEO/SEM specialists and you have kind of like these other kind of areas. But for me, it's like majority of all the jobs that we saw can be clustered into just a few different buckets. The number one by far most frequent one, and it's again, we're clustering these together, is SEO manager. So that's your kind of like middle of the road standard SEO function. It does not mean people management necessarily. It could, but I think like the main piece here is this is that kind of mid professional level SEO role that's not specifying any one aspect of SEO.
- [05:15]
Nick Leroy
Would you agree? I think one of the biggest issues we run into in the SEO space is years of experience does not always equate to actual knowledge and success. But if we defined it, I would call an SEO manager somewhere maybe in the like four to seven years of experience.
- [05:34]
Tyson Stockton
Yep, I would agree with that too. It's like someone in that function has, you know, definitely like several years of experience under their belt. They have the general understanding of all the core kind of elements and factors of SEO. They've probably had some success also in execution of SEO, but I'd say they're still on kind of that, you know, almost like first half of the career side. And I think like the big. And I'm, I'm just gonna actually just list off kind of like the most common job titles and then we can kind of navigate around those. Yeah, but I'd say like there's five job titles that accounted for most of the jobs that we came across and you could argue to throw six in there. But your entry level SEO analysts, you know, most common, of course you have specialists, things like that. But SEO analyst is kind of like your basic entry level role outside of like an intern. Then you have your SEO manager function, which I think is still in that general area. And then you kind of have a little bit of a split between content SEO and technical SEO. And then you kind of come back general to the director. And then there's kind of like VP above and I think that VP directory like we mentioned before, like we are seeing an increase there, so that's something we'll kind of touch on. But it's like, I think these are the kind of like lion's share of the jobs. And so being honest with yourself and kind of aligning to kind of which level or what type of SEO you are can greatly help your chances of success in recruiting or in applying.
- [07:20]
Nick Leroy
Spoiler alert. Gotta get those soft skills if you want to be higher up on the.
- [07:24]
Tyson Stockton
Ladder a hundred percent. And I mean from like your experience too, like talking and working with SEOs, like do you feel it's like that kind of progression where it goes like generalists, then you're kind of like managing the function, but you're still kind of in that generalist. And then you're probably going to specialize and then come back to the generalist.
- [07:46]
Nick Leroy
I would agree. I mean, directionally, I really love the way that you had said kind of the SEO manager role is like the halfway point of your career. Because I think all those years, the time that you spent before really is understanding how a search works. What are all the variables that we typically change that might have an impact one way or another? And then that next part is arguably like 10x harder because I can teach anybody how to do SEO, but I can't teach people to effectively communicate. And that in my opinion is what brings you to that. T in the road, you become a manager and this isn't right or wrong. This is just knowing yourself and where you want to go in your career. Let's just say left turn can be niching down. You want to become the best technical SEO or you want to be editor in chief within the blog or whatever. And then the right hand side might Be more senior management director vp where you are going to be the champion of the channel, you're going to advocate for strategy, you're going to get buy in. And this is going to require a lot of meetings with people that arguably don't care about SEO. And they certainly don't want to hear the words canonical tag or redirects or htaccess file. Like got to get that all out of your head. So we have to humanize, you know, SEO dork is kind of what I've been saying. So I do think that that's just a really good split in the road and I love how you had mentioned.
- [09:23]
Tyson Stockton
That and I think like that's, that's to an area that I think is a silver lining and like area of promise. And I think we probably need to break that down even further because I think like a lot of SEOs out there probably have that aspiration of like I want to be at the director level, I want to be VP level, but I think there's some nuance to that of where those jobs exist that then is fair to reflect back and be like is that truly what I want? And so I think from that point the call outs I would have is even though we saw an increase on the director and VP level kind of throughout the year. So it shows that there is this kind of like I would say maturing of the market and recognition of the need for these roles. However, more often than not they're going to be on the in house side. So I think that's something worth noting is more and more in house companies. So it's like one, you have to be thinking okay, I need to go in house. With the in house roles you're also going to have a higher likelihood of on site component. And so I think that's a tough piece because you know, and there are the opportunities out there for the executives that are remote. But I think like if you're kind of like on that cusp and you're in that senior manager kind of category and you're really wanting to make that jump to the in house director vp, it's worth noting like okay one, you're more than likely going to have to go in house and there might be a component of on site depending on where you live. If you're like, you know what, I value these other things more than that. I think it's totally fine. But, but it's like, you know, you have to have a match for kind of like what's out there and what you're what you're looking for. And I think it's also a call out of like, maybe you need to take a lateral move in house to then set yourself up for that director, where if you're coming as an SEO manager from an agency, it's not impossible, but it is a harder sell to be a director of SEO in house, especially if you don't have that in house experience.
- [11:36]
Nick Leroy
Yeah, it's like going from driving your car to driving a boat. Similar as in we're trying to get from A to B, but there's different technicalities for how to do each one perfectly.
- [11:48]
Tyson Stockton
100%. 100%. So, and we hit on it yesterday. So if we're looking at the SEO analyst, SEO specialist throughout 2024, you know, throughout that year we saw softening, you know, and so there were less jobs in those kind of like core areas. Also in the SEO manager function, we saw an increase in this leadership kind of realm. Then in the specialist, we did see kind of a strengthening or an increase on the technical and we saw a softening and a decrease on the content SEO roles. What's your take on that, Nick, as far as like the demand of each specialization?
- [12:28]
Nick Leroy
So I will just say this is my personal experience and like, who I'm connected with. But I would say when Tyson, you and I kind of started off, it felt like the industry was fairly divided. You definitely had your technical SEOs, but you definitely had your content SEOs. And then, you know, there's just kind of the battle of which one's best. Right. I think today we have leaned so hard to the content side that the technical SEOs really have some of the best opportunity just because they are a part of the smaller pool. The pool. Now, I won't go into the bigger conversation, but people who tend to, you know, lean technical also tend to have bigger challenges when it comes to those soft skills, which makes it harder to level up into a leadership role if that's where you want to go. What do you think?
- [13:20]
Tyson Stockton
True. Well, and it's like, like that's the unicorn, right? Someone that has like the whole package, which is very, very difficult to find as well.
- [13:30]
Nick Leroy
I said I'm gonna interrupt you for one moment because I'm sure on the recruiting side you've seen this too. But just a note to everybody, I get emails every single week that somebody wants a two to four year on site SEO for 65 to $75,000. And that is the magic person. They exist. But just know that that is what everybody wants. They don't want to train from scratch and they don't want to pay six figures.
- [14:00]
Tyson Stockton
And especially depending on market that could be, I mean especially in the big, like more expensive markets, like that is a very tall order, right? Some markets, yeah, no problem. But I think like that's, you know, there's such a, once you're in the on site area, whether it's hybrid or full on site, you know, now it's a little bit of a different game as far as what comp looks like, availability, all those other things. I agree with you though on this kind of like, I don't know, surging demand around technical and it makes sense where the industry's at. So it's like one, I would say, okay, yes, technical has, you know, not softened in the same way that content has. Content jobs though are still way more and you're seeing that as a skill set within other jobs, like still super, super common. But it's like, so it's like there are more content SEO jobs out there, even though it has taken more of a hit, technicals on the rise. And you also see a substantial increase in compensation. So it's like if I'm early in my career, that's the area that I'm leaning higher salary and compensation and it's trending in the right direction. So it's like, I wouldn't want to say like, ignore the soft skills, but it's like to me that would be a high area of like recommendation for the up and coming SEOs in the industry.
- [15:29]
Nick Leroy
Absolutely. And I think we would be in agreement. I don't believe everybody should be your email marketer, your pay per click guy and your SEO. But it doesn't have to be this either or, you know, I lean a little bit more heavy on the technical side, but I still get excited about content and I think we need more people to kind of do that. It's like I lean this way, but I can do this because that's going to give you the best of both worlds.
- [15:57]
Tyson Stockton
And I think there's room like, and sometimes in interview, like when I'm interviewing SEOs, I'll ask about this and I think people get a little nervous of saying that one thing is their strength. And it's like, so you have more people that want to say like, oh, I'm a generalist, I can do it all, which is great. But I think it's also totally fair, like you said, to be like, I've lean this direction. Like this is more of my, you know, comfort zone. However, I have familiarity And I can, you know, I can run everything under the board. It's just that area is my specialization.
- [16:30]
Nick Leroy
Yeah, you just want to make sure that it's great to have done a little bit of everything, but you don't want to have done a little bit of everything poorly. Like it's better to do good work in one spot than it is, you know that we talk about T shaped marketers. It's like the width is great, but depth is even better. So just something to consider. And the good news is, you know, Taisa, I can't speak for pre visible, but in the agency world that I worked at, you can make switches like you don't have to commit to technical and then be like, oh shoot what I get myself into. And then be like, I got 30 years of this. Like you can flip flop.
- [17:09]
Tyson Stockton
That's such a good point. And it's like starting with one, gaining that specialization, then jumping to the other is also a great way to go about it.
- [17:18]
Nick Leroy
Well, and funny enough, what you had kind of said Tyson, you know, it's like if you think of it being like a diamond, like, you know, it's very intentional. Then we go a little bit wider and, and then with like that director, we kind of close up top. The best directors and leadership need to be able to kind of, I call it like the BS detector. It's like you may not have to be the most proficient technical SEO or the best content writer, but you have to know enough to be able to pass that sniff test for anybody that's leveling up to you or any work that's being, you know, provided or going out essentially with your name on it 100%.
- [17:56]
Tyson Stockton
And I think you, you also see that kind of split more in the enterprise level. And so it's like when you're entering the industry, yeah, you have that generalization and then I think that's like another recommendation I would have for the mid, you know, kind of reaching that transition point into the kind of upper mid is pick a lane. Doesn't matter which one it is, you can always switch to the other one because again, to get to that final kind of area, you do need have depth in both areas. But it's like you're more likely to see on the agency level more analyst, manager, specialist roles in the enterprise organizations. You're more likely to see the director, VPs can, you know, you'll see in like the agencies too. But like the directors, the content, the tech, because you know, they're also needing to round out their team overall is how they're building it.
- [18:55]
Nick Leroy
Yeah, Tyson, there's one job role that I don't believe we really cover in the studies. So I want to get kind of your hot take on it. Where or should people be focusing on this new, like, digital PR and link building? Where does that fit within SEO in 2025 and beyond?
- [19:15]
Tyson Stockton
Surprisingly, I think it has a big role. Like, I have spent more of my career on the enterprise side, and so backlinking efforts have not been a common staple in my kind of, like, playbook, if you will. And it's not to say that it's not important, but it's like if you're working with a household name by nature, they're going to have a lot of backlinks. If you're a, you know, SMB SaaS startup, you're probably going to need a little bit more of that. And so I think with this, you know, kind of rise of LLM, search, GPT, all these other things, I do think we're experiencing this kind of, like, pendulum swing back and like, some more. More traditional practices. And it's like, I don't want kind of like pigeonhole it into being backlinks, but more of this, like, digital pr, I think, is more significant lever than it was maybe a couple years ago. Like, we saw it kind of trending away from it. But I feel like the pendulum's coming back and even the larger companies need to be thinking of that more because it's not just like, I get the weight of your placement, but it's also like the frequency of your placement on the web to have that presence in LLMs and everything else.
- [20:34]
Nick Leroy
Yeah. Let me ask if you agree with this sentiment. So I've been telling a lot of people, I feel like the days of being able to SEO a website and then build a brand off of it, think of your nerd wallet or your Wayfair is debt, I believe now the goal is to build a brand, to have a good service and product, get it out as much as you can through, you know, amplifying various SEO marketing efforts, and then SEO is the result, you know, And I think that it sounds like that's just like a minor discrepancy, but it's significantly different than how things have worked, you know, the last 15, 20 years.
- [21:18]
Tyson Stockton
That's a great point. And I think, like, those pieces is the exact, like, mindset of how the director above role needs to be thinking. In particular, I think, like, you could argue mid and above, but I think, like, a lot of the conversations we face it's like someone, like, there's more people that want to jump to that level. But I think the same way that you described that kind of shift in that point, those conversations are the expectation in those levels because you need to guide the kind of philosophy, the mindset within the organization. And so it's like those have to be the type of kind of like questions that are asked and then also led within the organization.
- [22:00]
Nick Leroy
Yeah, 100%. And I would say as I kind of matured in my career and then even went out on my own and building my business myself, it's like the more you can understand the business implication of your recommendations, you'll 10x your SQL value almost overnight. Because, Tyce, I can't speak for you, but back in the day, I absolutely were like, get more backlinks, create content, and like, your site speed sucks. And if you can't fix those three, well, why do you even exist?
- [22:29]
Tyson Stockton
You're on. You're on.
- [22:31]
Nick Leroy
Yeah, exactly. And now it's like you might go in there and be like, your site speed sucks. Oh, the quote to get that fixed in our Frankenstein website is $3 million. Well, you're never going to see that ROI back. So it just helps you contextualize it. And as you were saying, I think that is kind of the 200 level of SEO. You're getting past the best practices and then you're contextualizing what is the business value and you're able to prioritize and advocate for those as appropriate.
- [23:04]
Tyson Stockton
100%. So with that, that is also going to wrap up this episode of the Voice of Search podcast. We're going to continue the conversation tomorrow by dissecting our SEO job study. But we're going to dive into location elements tomorrow. So remote hybrid on site where in the country. We're going to dive into all of those questions on tomorrow's episode. And if you can't wait till then and you like to get in touch with Nick, you can find a link to his LinkedIn profile in the show notes. Or go on over and check out his company's website@seojobs.com okay.
- [23:43]
Ben Jschapp
Thanks to Tyson Stockton, our guest host. If you'd like to get in touch with Tyson, you could find a link to his LinkedIn profile in our show notes. You can contact him on Twitter where his handle is TysonStockton. Or if your team is interested in SEO consulting or organizational education, you can always head to their company's website, which is Previsible IO that's P R E V I S I B L E I O Just one more link in our show Notes I'd like to tell you about if you didn't have a chance to take notes while you were listening to this podcast, head over to voicesofsearch.com where we have summaries of all of our episodes and contact information for our guests. You can also subscribe to our weekly newsletter, and you can even send us your topic suggestions or your marketing questions, which we'll answer live on our show. Of course, you can always reach out on social media. Our handle is voicesofsearch on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or you can contact me directly. Directly. My handle is Ben Jschapp B E N J S H A P and if you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of SEO and content marketing insights in your podcast feed, we're going to publish an episode every day during the work week. So hit that subscribe button in your podcast app and we'll be back in your feed tomorrow morning. All right, that's it for today, but until next time, remember the answers are always in the data.